Open thread

Meanwhile, today on The Independent’s website, there is this demonstration of what we are still up against:
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/whatever-happened-to-climate-change-8831686.html
This is a paper much read by journalists and other media people, teachers and lecturers, and politicians.
Someone in the comments has stated, regarding Al Gore’s hockey schtick:
“The hockey stick continues to be independently replicated, again and again. It has become one of the most trusted graphs in science.”
Other commentators nod their heads sagely and agree wholeheartedly, making similarly ill-informed statements about just about every other contentious aspect of the climate debate.
Will someone who can explain the issues succinctly please go over there and talk some sense to them?

The possibility of another Carrington event and the almost unimaginable consequences it could have gets raised from time to time. It has been conflated with the EMP from high altitude nuclear explosions. I have seen discussions of how much damage they could cause, how long it would take to repair that damage, and how much death and suffering result. I have never found a good detailed examination of how they cause the damage. It is my understanding that the damage is caused by magnetic fields that induce voltage in circuits, whether they be the continental scale power distribution network or an hand held electronic device which might be eight orders of magnitude smaller. However it is my understanding (or possibly misunderstanding) of the problem that the effect of a changing magnetic field is determined by the rate of change of the field integrated over the entire loop and the area of that loop is going to change as the square of a dimension of the loop, so we could be considering differences of 16 orders of magnitude. To me, this indicates that the frequencies of the field have to be so different to cause problems over such a huge range of size that is is almost impossible to analyze the problems in a similar manner. I would appreciate seeing a post that included (or even pointed to sources that I could go to) :
1 A description of the frequencies involved.
2 A description of the actual magnetic flux that would occur.
3 A description of the rate of change of magnetic flux that occur.
4 A detailed description of exactly how the damage is caused.
As I understand the Carrington type event, the low frequency components generate significant voltages in damaging amounts only in large loops or in the differences induced in the earths surface.
A long AC power transmission line will have huge problems if only a small very low frequency voltage exists between the ground potentials at the two ends. Does this affect the local distribution loops? Other than a loss of power to the transformer on the post in my back yard, how will anything on the secondary side of that transformer be affected. How about the local distribution grid that only covers a few square miles? How big could a grid be (assuming that it had adequate local generating facilities and could disconnect from any larger grid quickly) before it would sustain significant damage?
With a HVDC power transmission line, how are the vulnerabilities affected?
As I understand it, HVDC power transmission has been used primarily where there are potential problems in phase or frequency compensation, where there is excessive loss due to the AC field of the line, or where HVAC is extremely difficult such as underwater cables. Would it reduce the vulnerabilities if HVDC was used in strategic locations?
I cannot imagine a Carrington event affecting actual communication through an optical fiber if the repeaters can be provided with unaffected power. Have they been build with provision for such an occurrence?
The telegraph system affected by the Carrington event was affected in a manner similar to the way large power grids would be today. How would a modern telephone system be affected? I have no idea how much if any intercity communication is over physical wires, but I understand that optical cables are gradually moving out into local neighborhoods. How large can a local telephone area be before it will be significantly affected?
Of course, there are many relevant questions about a nuclear EMP, but I do not have enough knowledge about them to even suggest the questions.

DirkH @1010 I agree .wijn shoutem………..
Warmist
Injecting
Juvenile
Nonsense and
Shoutem.

One often-unsaid aspect of the public discussion on whether human-induced climate change is real, is ideology. Several months ago, the University of Kentucky hosted of forum on climate change with three excellent speakers who were all self-described conservatives. Liberals reported how they better understand that there are thoughtful conservative perspectives on, and solutions to, climate change, thus allowing for a broadened public discussion. In turn, conservatives in attendance learned the same thing. You can watch the recording of this event at http://bit.ly/135gvNa. The starting time for each speaker is noted at this page, so you can listen to the speakers of greatest interest to you.

My open thread comment is another “weather is not climate” comment, because I’m a layman and only understand what I see and feel. Dang it, it’s been chilly for September! We’re getting repeat 40s here in North Arkansas, and in September. After a lackluster summer with people wondering where the heck the dog days of July and August went, now we are enjoying blissful and perfect September days. Nothing but sunshine and blue skies, mid 70s and low humidity. But the social networks are socked with comments about digging out the pajamas and flipping the thermostats over. Please give me a nickel for every time I read of a friend or family member cooking up the hot cocoa or test firing the wood stoves at night and early morning. I’ll share the profits with charity – promise. Why is this news? Because all this talk is nearly a full month early compared to autumns in the past 10-15 years or so. Now where’s that sweater mom bought me…

Since this is an open thread, a post on the life and wisdom of Thomas Jefferson –
Who was
Thomas Jefferson ?
Thomas Jefferson was a very remarkable man who started learning very early in life and never stopped.
At 5, began studying under his cousin’s tutor.
At 9, studied Latin, Greek and French.
At 14, studied classical literature and additional languages.
At 16, entered the College of William and Mary.
At 19, studied Law for 5 years starting under George Wythe.
At 23, started his own law practice.
At 25, was elected to the Virginia House of Burgesses.
At 31, wrote the widely circulated “Summary View of the Rights of British America ? And retired from his law practice.
At 32, was a Delegate to the Second Continental Congress.
At 33, wrote the Declaration of Independence .
At 33, took three years to revise Virginia ‘s legal code and wrote a Public Education bill and a statute for Religious Freedom.
At 36, was elected the second Governor of Virginia succeeding Patrick Henry.
At 40, served in Congress for two years.
At 41, was the American minister to France and negotiated commercial treaties with European nations along with Ben Franklin and John Adams.
At 46, served as the first Secretary of State under George Washington.
At 53, served as Vice President and was elected president of the American Philosophical Society.
At 55, drafted the Kentucky Resolutions and became the active head of Republican Party.
At 57, was elected the third president of the United States .
At 60, obtained the Louisiana Purchase doubling the nation’s size.
At 61, was elected to a second term as President.
At 65, retired to Monticello .
At 80, helped President Monroe shape the Monroe Doctrine.
At 81, almost single-handedly created the University of Virginia and served as its first president.
At 83, died on the 50th anniversary of the Signing of the Declaration of Independence along with John Adams.
Thomas Jefferson knew because he himself studied the previous failed attempts at government. He understood actual history, the nature of God, his laws and the nature of man. That happens to be way more than what most understand today. Jefferson really knew his stuff. A voice from the past to lead us in the future:
John F. Kennedy held a dinner in the white House for a group of the brightest minds in the nation at that time. He made this statement: “This is perhaps the assembly of the most intelligence ever to gather at one time in the White House with the exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone.”
“When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe .”
— Thomas Jefferson
“The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.”
— Thomas Jefferson
“It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.”
— Thomas Jefferson
“I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.”
— Thomas Jefferson
“My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.”
— Thomas Jefferson
“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”
— Thomas Jefferson
“The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.”
— Thomas Jefferson
“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
— Thomas Jefferson
“To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.”
— Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson said in 1802:
“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.
If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property – until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”

richardscourtney on September 22, 2013 at 8:11 am
John Whitman:
re your post at September 22, 2013 at 7:56 am.
Science and pseudoscience have often been discussed on WUWT.
Science is an attempt to obtain the closest possible approximation to ‘truth’ by seeking information which contradicts existing understanding(s) and amending or rejecting existing understanding(s) in the light of obtained information.
Pseudoscience accepts an existing understanding as being ‘true’ then seeking information which supports the understanding while ignoring and/or rejecting information which contradicts existing understanding.
Richard

– – – – – – –
richardscourtney,
Thoughtful responses. Thanks.
Your idea on pseudo-science, however can be viewed as biased science awaiting the scientific self correction process to play out, but still within the historic experience and relevant purview of science. If viewed that way it still leaves the question open as to what pseudo-science is as it exists independent of science.
I suggest pseudo-science is that which merely mimics scientific processes / scientists / scientific vocabulary. It is ceremony, ritual, acting, ‘going through the motions’. The intent of pseudo-science in that case is to gain the benefits of appearing to be scientists or appearing to have scientific products. Would that view of pseudo-science bear on what the IPCC is doing?
Interesting question.
John