Traveling today to meet a friend of WUWT right about the time this post auto publishes.
Behave yourselves. Don’t make me come back here.
Discover more from Watts Up With That?
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
Traveling today to meet a friend of WUWT right about the time this post auto publishes.
Behave yourselves. Don’t make me come back here.
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
vukcevic says: February 24, 2013 at 1:48 pm
… the Universe may not expand for ever, i.e. fly apart, …
Thank you. I am much comforted.
——————————————
mfo says: February 23, 2013 at 3:34 pm
From JoNova-
A doctor named Helen Caldicott, claimed on ABC that Monckton of Brenchley …
Jo Nova writes with sharp irony:
“Caldicott is a doctor and also the co-founder of Physicians for Social Responsibility, “an organization of 23,000 doctors”. [See her Bio http://www.helencaldicott.com/about/ ]
Perhaps she thinks it would be “socially responsible” to start a show where panels of doctors speculated on the medical conditions of celebrities they had never met?” …
Back in the early 1980’s Dr Caldicott landed in Moline, enroute to a town in Iowa for an anti-nuke/war/progress rally. No scheduled airline service to her destination, so she chartered a plane with us to take her there. She and I had an interesting discussion along the way, an anti-nuke crusader trying to explain her thoughts to a former B-52 pilot.
Bernie Hutchins says:
February 24, 2013 at 10:01 am
I need some help with this: More snowstorms should NOT be “what is expected” with global warming. Can someone here please provide the specific and correct details as to what is going on when excess water vapor in the atmosphere precipitates out as snow rather than as rain?
—
In order to get more snow out of air with a higher than normal water vapor content, there needs to be some way for the atmosphere to dump the extra increment of latent and sensible heat required to freeze the extra water vapor. This could be caused either by mixing with a cold polar air mass which has already been cooled by the ground polar regions cooling by radiating to space through the dry sinking airmass(remember, the majority of infrared re-radiation is from water vapor, not CO2), OR by radiating the excess heat from the cloud tops at the top of the storm, which would be above the majority of the atmospheric greenhouse gases any way.
In other words, it’s a sign of negative feedback if extra water vapor in the atmosphere leads to more snow instead of rain, that the extra energy being trapped by CO2 is still being efficiently removed from the atmosphere.
John Bell,
I have been aware of these since my teens, when I explored WIlhelm Reich’s Orgone Energy theory, and the earlier N-rays. These points particularly are clues to Pathological Science’
• The maximum effect that is observed is produced by a causative agent of barely detectable intensity, and the magnitude of the effect is substantially independent of the intensity of the cause.
• The effect is of a magnitude that remains close to the limit of detectability, or many measurements are necessary because of the very low statistical significance of the results.
• There are claims of great accuracy.
• Criticisms are met by ad hoc excuses.
ah, underline doesn’t work. I wanted to highlight critical phrases.
Vukcevic
if gravity field has a wave property
I see gravity as being a field potential, just like an electric field potential in semiconductor devices; on the macro level, and subject to the same quantumn mechanical-like behavior. I also am an engineer. Interesting, we both understand the perversity of inanimate matter.
Any Mass in this gravitational potential has a wave function, dependant upon its velocity, etc. If the wave function becomes the size of the object, then strange things happen.
davidmhoffer says:
February 24, 2013 at 9:08 am
latitude;
David, put this in google: Sweden came up first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The guy asked for articles, I knew of one, and provided a link.
People bust your chops for the strangest reasons these days while providing not a single link of their own to answer the original question.
========
sorry, wasn’t busting your paranoid chops at all……..misread the post as if you were asking……tried to help out…..said articles…won’t happen again
RE: john robertson says:
February 24, 2013 at 11:01 am
I’m glad you enjoyed that rant, (and it was a rant.)
Ranting does blow off steam, but tends to alienate Alarmists. With you I imagine I’m merely “preaching to the choir.”
Alarmists exasperate me for exactly the reasons you describe, and I’ve been losing my temper for years now. I used to be “snipped” on Climate Audit, but really didn’t mind, for I understood I wasn’t truly contributing to the discussion. I hugely admired the way Steve McIntyre always kept his cool, and even learned a thing or two about not losing my own temper from him.
But as year follows year, and those Alarmist bald-faced liars keep right on spouting balderdash, my temper gets frayed all over again. So I started my own blog, where I don’t have to always be scientific and polite and reasonable.
I’m not trying to win any votes or sell any snake oil or seduce any blonds. I’m just telling it like it is, from where I stand in life. It is not science. It is self expression.
my two cents for this weekend…
The lack of a sea surface anomaly does not invalidate a causation to storms (i.e. Sandy), storms are generated by a temperature gradient between the sea surface and the air not by the “absolute” temperature of the ocean(s). Otherwise would there be any storms in the winter?
The evaporation/condensation cycle is not energy neutral. The evaporation happens at sea level modifying temperature (T) and pressure (P). The condensation happens above the evaporation at a dramatically different T and P.
I wonder if a dramatic increase in storm number and/or intensity would cause a greater slowing of the rotation of the Earth than usual; could that not be measured?
The climate records, from diverse sources, do suggest a lag between rising temperature and increasing concentrations of CO2. This suggests there is a global mechanism that releases carbon dioxide AFTER the temperature warms. Assuming all things constant (i.e. the mechanism has not been degraded by human activities) and assuming a reversible mechanism (i.e. cooling has a similar lag with removing CO2) then the loading of CO2 into the atmosphere would stress the mechanism, whatever it may be, to create a discontinuity on a global scale (i.e. the mechanism has a level of CO2 that leads a temperature increase before that temperature is attained), hence a long period of turbulence followed by a period of cooling to remove the CO2 after the attainment of the inflection point (i.e. the “point” where maximum CO2 concentration transitions into cooling). The climate records imply this inflection point is around 300 ppm about a 100 ppm ago. Therefore, “Global Warming” is a not very good term and “Climate Change” is to weak a term to label the turbulence…perhaps “Pervasive Weather Anomaly”. You heard it here first 🙂
Predicting sea level rise has got to be akin to arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. If glacial ice can deform the land then increasing oceanic mass will deform the ocean floor. Then what does sea level mean? And that is not even considering the gravitational effects between solid ice and liquid water let alone the possible consequence of a redistribution of matter to accommodate a new moment of inertia for the Earth. This change will not be nice and smooth but profoundly “quantal”.
I am no expert, but i decided to change my language to include less modal adjectives than i usually use since this has clearly annoyed people; so the tone is necessarily more arrogant. For this i apologize in advance.
It is too late anyways…
“…denial is no longer an acceptable response…”, because a critical mass of lobbyists made it so?
I never did get the whole paradox thingy…
So if you take the traveling twin as stationary then the Earth bound twin should experience time as dilated…hmmm
Thanks, that’s a banquet of food for thought!
Presuming that they have really discovered the Higgs bosun (“God particle”), the evidence says the universe really is likely doomed.
http://news.yahoo.com/higgs-boson-particle-may-spell-doom-universe-152236961.html
The universe is fundamentally unstable. After years of theories and speculations of the size of the universe heading towards infinity, “the further we look, the more of it there is”, with matter/antimatter being pulled into existence from vacuum…
We find it could all just go away. As if God woke up from the dream we all are in, the universe will end.
They say this could happen billions of years from now. But the end will propagate at the speed of light.
Since we, with our modern telescopes, are just now seeing the EM radiation from events that are billions of years old,
Could the universe have already started to collapse, the existence of everything known is ending, and we just don’t know it yet?
“””””…..Vince Causey says:
February 23, 2013 at 1:28 pm
As this is a science blog, I thought I would discuss Einsteins Twin Paradox, but in a way that deals with one of the most common misconceptions……”””””
I have never paid much attention to the “Twins paradox” Vince; mostly on the theory that there are no paradoxes.
But I found your description to be very readable; I might even understand it.
I believe the twins paradox (why twins) is just a variant of the Relativity “Clock paradox.”
I seem to recall in the late 50s early 60s, the Physics academic community was entertained by a great discussion of the “Clock Paradox” by two scientists, known simply as Dingle and MaCrae.
Each month, at the Physics Dept. staff meeting, someone was charged with describing the latest letter writing salvo, from Dingle and MaCrae about the problem. Don’t recall how long it went on, but our conclusion was that there was no paradox, but that Dingle and Macrae were each describing a slightly different problem, from the other, and neither could see that they were simply holding a conversation with themself.
But of course, one of the difficulties in the Relativity realm, is that the whole concept of simultaneity, and order of events, gets muddied up.
George
kadaka (KD Knoebel) says:
February 24, 2013 at 5:08 pm
“Presuming that they have really discovered the Higgs bosun (“God particle”), the evidence says the universe really is likely doomed.
…
For example, the mass of the new particle is about 126 billion electron volts, or about 126 times the mass of the proton.”
Gee whiz KD, this approximately the mass of the Tellurium atom. How could it hide for so long?
latitude;
sorry, wasn’t busting your paranoid chops at all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Those were my grumpy chops.
The paranoid ones ask questions like
what do you mean by that?
what are you trying to imply?
why are you picking on me?
did someone put you up to this?
does your dog bite?
is that your dog?
funny story, but a friend of mine is a lawyer who was defending an insurance company. he hired a private investigator to follow the plaintiff and see if he was suffering the claimed injuries. At the trial, a psychologist testified that the plaintiff was suffering from paranoia as a result of the accident and believed he was being followed by someone. Under cross, my friend asks the psychologist if occurred to him that the plaintiff actually was/ being followed. The look on the psychologist’s face was priceless. Followed by the testimony of the private investigator which not only showed that the plaintiff was being followed, but included video of the plaintiff doing the exact work (shingling a roof) that he claimed he was no longer able to do.
Since then, the quip “just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean nobody is out to get you” has made me laugh aloud out of proportion to the circumstance.
sorry I was grumpy.
Eric Simpson says:
February 23, 2013 at 2:59 pm
There’s been no change. Flatten that sea-level line out.
============
The British Admiralty Charts from 300 years ago show no detectable change in sea levels either. Most of the world has never been resurveyed since then. That is a testament to how accurate the original surveys were in an age of wooden ships and iron men.
If scientists were really interested in discovering the truth they would simply consult the BA charts rather they relying on obscure proxies. Something that sailors do every day. If Sea Level Rise was occurring , then all the ocean charts would have a datum in the chart legend indicating the amount of adjustment required, as they have for magnetic declination.
But while charts all have an adjustment for the motion of the magnetic poles, and adjustments to bring them in line with GPS (WGS 84) none have an adjustment for global sea level rise. Why? Because you couldn’t get away with it because it would kill people if you falsified the charts.
For example, we sailed the remote Kingdom of Tonga in the Pacific using charts drawn by Bligh in 1773. The water depths are still accurate to 1 foot over 300+ years. While the charts do have an adjustment for need to be adjusted for lat and long to match GPS, they have no “global warming” or sea level adjustment.
Sea level rise has been measured to be an average of 11 mm in the last hundred years or so. Cited from my memory. Some places more and some places less. This is much much much less that the accuracy of those charts,
Early measurements of sea level rise based on tidal measurements done for a few hundred years suggested that the oceans where rising at a rate of 1.5-2.0 mm/yr. More recent measurements have the increase at about 3.0-3.5 mm/yr.
At this rate it will take, on the order, of a hundred years before those old charts will need adjustment, assuming the pacific plate near Tonga is not re-adjusted by a 9.0 earthquake. Consider investing in sonar equipment.
Kajajuk says:
February 24, 2013 at 4:35 pm
Predicting sea level rise has got to be akin to arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
===========
One of the great misconceptions is that the ocean basis are like swimming pools that hold the oceans. Reality is quite a bit different. The nonsense that the water is held within the ocean basins of fixed volume is no different than the fiction that rivers and lakes can exist independent of the water table in the surrounding soil. The ocean basins do not hold the oceans.
The oceans extend well below the bottom of the ocean basins and would drain towards the center of the earth were it not for the heat on the interior. Water cannot go further into the earth than the point at which it turns to steam at pressure. All the water is held in a layer above this point, and the oceans are simply where the land is lower than the water. Without a hot core, there would be no oceans on the surface of earth, the water would drain through the cracks in the earth towards the core. Likely this is what happened to Mars as it cooled, its oceans sunk towards the core.
The Higgs boson was hiding in with a bunch of strange quarks, the bottom got jealous when the beauty flirted with the top and then the up and down went to their anti, understandably the Higgs needed a break from all this drama and was spotted with a gluon making Z plus/minus.
ferdberple says:
February 24, 2013 at 7:34 pm
Very interesting. Any citations for the curious to consider for further reading?
Kajajuk,
You will find that Ferd Berple has extensive knowledge. His comments are always worth reading.
The twin Paradox is a consequence of special relativity. It does not exists in general relativity.
When you consider only speed you cannot tell which twin is moving and which twin is standing still. Thus they should have aged the same when arriving at a common future.
However, this paradox is physically impossible because they cannot arrive at the same future at the same time by traveling at different speeds. You must introduce acceleration to bring them back to the same reference frame. In an over simplification, the twin with the greater acceleration spends less time to get to the common future, and thus ages less.
I know the weekend is now over just about everywhere east of the Cook Islands, but here is still probably the best place to remark on this: with only four days left to go of the month of February, the sunspot number is bck down to 25. Once again, another very quiet month, and so close to the expected solar maximum..
Somebody’s lips are moving. That can mean only one thing.
http://www.newsmax.com/SciTech/White-House-scientific-research/2013/02/23/id/491663
Kajajuk says:
February 24, 2013 at 7:30 pm
Sea level rise has been measured to be an average of 11 mm in the last hundred years or so. Cited from my memory. Some places more and some places less. This is much much much less that the accuracy of those charts,
============
BA charts are accurate to 1 foot within the 1 fathom lime. 11 mm/hundred years would be 33 mm over 300 years. Just over 1 inch of rise? I agree we could not detect this from the BA charts, but then again I’m pretty sure this slow a rise would not be reliably detectable by any other mechanism available 300 years ago.
If you meant to say 11cm/hundred years, then this just over 1 foot in 300 years, which is about the accuracy of the charts, and with this I would agree. 1 foot of sea level change over the past 300 years would be about the limit noticeable from the charts. But I also suspect that no once could measure sea level rise over the past 100 years to an accuracy of 1cm let alone 1mm.
However, if modern human beings cannot cope with about a foot of sea level rise over 300 years then we must surely have gone extinct 15,000 years ago when the oceans went up 300 feet, burying the evidence of early human civilization underwater. It could well be the reason we think civilization first started in the middle east after sea levels stabilized is because the oceans don’t give up their dead. Evidence on Crete that water travel was possible as much as 130,000 years ago during the previous interglacial suggests that ice ages wiped out the evidence for earlier civilizations. As the next ice age will do for our civilization.
DirkH says:
February 24, 2013 at 3:06 pm
The Earth moves away with light speed from the rocket so time on Earth comes to a standstill. In the rest of the galaxy as well. While the twin in the rocket is at standstill and therfore ages normally.
===========
A 1 g constant acceleration starship can reach almost the other side of the observable universe and return within a single human lifetime. The crew will have aged something like 70 years. The earth some 5-10 billion years.
For the crew on-board there will be no difference in apparent gravity than living on the earth. there will be a constant 1 g acceleration as experienced living on the surface of the planet.
Thus, there is a mechanism for humans to explore the universe without any need for warp drives. You cannot return home, but that is no different than many generations before that left their homes for the new world. They fully expected it to be a one way trip.
Kajajuk says:
February 24, 2013 at 7:53 pm
Very interesting. Any citations for the curious to consider for further reading?
=========
http://www.livescience.com/1312-huge-ocean-discovered-earth.html