Thanks to those who answered my post about heat being lost to space. I knew that light has potential heat associated with it and that it can radiate out to space – I thought that people were saying that heat from the upper atmosphere was bleeding out into space. Maybe I misinterpreted what was being discussed. Anyway, thanks!
Mark and two Cats says:
February 10, 2013 at 9:08 pm
… I thought that people were saying that heat from the upper atmosphere was bleeding out into space. Maybe I misinterpreted what was being discussed. Anyway, thanks!
We did and it is. It’s too late to go into some of the details, but if you could see in the long wave infrared spectrum, the atmosphere would look quite different.
CO2 (and water vapor, and other gasses) absorb from wavelengths very well. They also emit IR at the same wavelengths quite well. At the surface level, most of what CO2 releases is absorbed quickly by a nearby snow man. Higher in the atmosphere, the photons have a better chance of escaping, and that’s an important area for shedding some of the Earth’s extra head.
D. Patterson
February 10, 2013 9:47 pm
Mark and two Cats says:
February 10, 2013 at 9:08 pm
Yes, you are still not quite understanding the conceepts involved. Light and and infrared energy are different forms of electromagnetic energy that are expressed as photons, For this purpose think of photons as little packages of energy which travel through space, outer space and the inner space between atmos and molecules of matter, until they intercept a particle of matter such as an electron and is captured by thee electron. When a photon of electromagnetic energy is captured by an electron, the orbit of the electron around the atomic nucleus is increasedd to a higher level. When an event causes the electrron to emit a new photon of electromagnetic energy, the emitted photon races away through inner space and/or outer space until it too encounters a particle of matter that captures it as well.
The latent heat or thermal energy in matter is the result of these photons being captured and increasing the activity of the atmo or molecule and its electrons. Heat is the radiation of photons of electromagnetic energy in the frequency range of waves associated with infr-red energy. Molecules of water are especially efficient at absorbing photons of light and inra-red energy and the radiating photons of infra-red energy as the molecules cool. Gravity causes parcels of air bearing molecules of water vapor to be convected into the upper levels of the Earth’s troposphere. The lower pressures and lower temperatures at these altitudes cause the water molecules to emit electromagnetic energy in the form of inra-red photons. That portion of the inra-red photons which happen to be emitted in the direction of outer space have a much greater chance of traveling out of the Earth’s atmosphere into outer space than the photons of inra-red energy emitted at the surface of the Earth where the density of matter is far greater and that much more likely to absorb the photon of infra-red energy. This is why there is talk of the heat being radiated into space from the top of the atmosphere. There is simply less matter up there to absorb the photons, and convection transports the matter up to those altitudes where the radiation of the photons may take place.
Kelvin Vaughan
February 11, 2013 2:33 am
oldfossil says:
February 10, 2013 at 1:53 pm
While solar is a far less polluting energy source than coal or natural gas, many panel makers are nevertheless grappling with a hazardous waste problem. Fueled partly by billions in government incentives, the industry is creating millions of solar panels each year and, in the process, millions of pounds of polluted sludge and contaminated water.
Not only solar panels but energy saving light bulbs containing mercury vapour too.
I haven’t had any last longer than 4 years yet even though they are supposed to last 10 years.
So as I sit here in Bournemouth, about as far south as you can get in England, through the window I can see global warming precipitating from the sky and starting to settle on my lawn….Warmer milder winters….haaa
climatereason
Editor
February 11, 2013 9:19 am
Mike
Ah, but youre not as far south as us here in Teignmouth South Devon where we are all wondering what all the fuss is about as we sip our drinks outside on the terrace. Ok, that last bit isn’t true but we’ve seen no snow at all so far this winter.
tonyb
Thanks to those who answered my post about heat being lost to space. I knew that light has potential heat associated with it and that it can radiate out to space – I thought that people were saying that heat from the upper atmosphere was bleeding out into space. Maybe I misinterpreted what was being discussed. Anyway, thanks!
Mark and two Cats says:
February 10, 2013 at 9:08 pm
We did and it is. It’s too late to go into some of the details, but if you could see in the long wave infrared spectrum, the atmosphere would look quite different.
CO2 (and water vapor, and other gasses) absorb from wavelengths very well. They also emit IR at the same wavelengths quite well. At the surface level, most of what CO2 releases is absorbed quickly by a nearby snow man. Higher in the atmosphere, the photons have a better chance of escaping, and that’s an important area for shedding some of the Earth’s extra head.
Yes, you are still not quite understanding the conceepts involved. Light and and infrared energy are different forms of electromagnetic energy that are expressed as photons, For this purpose think of photons as little packages of energy which travel through space, outer space and the inner space between atmos and molecules of matter, until they intercept a particle of matter such as an electron and is captured by thee electron. When a photon of electromagnetic energy is captured by an electron, the orbit of the electron around the atomic nucleus is increasedd to a higher level. When an event causes the electrron to emit a new photon of electromagnetic energy, the emitted photon races away through inner space and/or outer space until it too encounters a particle of matter that captures it as well.
The latent heat or thermal energy in matter is the result of these photons being captured and increasing the activity of the atmo or molecule and its electrons. Heat is the radiation of photons of electromagnetic energy in the frequency range of waves associated with infr-red energy. Molecules of water are especially efficient at absorbing photons of light and inra-red energy and the radiating photons of infra-red energy as the molecules cool. Gravity causes parcels of air bearing molecules of water vapor to be convected into the upper levels of the Earth’s troposphere. The lower pressures and lower temperatures at these altitudes cause the water molecules to emit electromagnetic energy in the form of inra-red photons. That portion of the inra-red photons which happen to be emitted in the direction of outer space have a much greater chance of traveling out of the Earth’s atmosphere into outer space than the photons of inra-red energy emitted at the surface of the Earth where the density of matter is far greater and that much more likely to absorb the photon of infra-red energy. This is why there is talk of the heat being radiated into space from the top of the atmosphere. There is simply less matter up there to absorb the photons, and convection transports the matter up to those altitudes where the radiation of the photons may take place.
oldfossil says:
February 10, 2013 at 1:53 pm
While solar is a far less polluting energy source than coal or natural gas, many panel makers are nevertheless grappling with a hazardous waste problem. Fueled partly by billions in government incentives, the industry is creating millions of solar panels each year and, in the process, millions of pounds of polluted sludge and contaminated water.
Not only solar panels but energy saving light bulbs containing mercury vapour too.
I haven’t had any last longer than 4 years yet even though they are supposed to last 10 years.
Little change to the ENSO 3.4 value this week, so the ENSO meter is unchanged:
http://nomad3.ncep.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/pdisp_sst.sh?ctlfile=oiv2.ctl&ptype=ts&var=ssta&level=1&op1=none&op2=none&day=12&month=jan&year=2013&fday=11&fmonth=feb&fyear=2013&lat0=-5&lat1=5&lon0=-170&lon1=-120&plotsize=800×600&title=&dir=
Found target /png/tmp/CTEST13605840022046.txt
Opening http://nomad3.ncep.noaa.gov//png/tmp/CTEST13605840022046.txt
Data file
data from 00Z12JAN2013 to 00Z11FEB2013
“———-”
-0.514692
-0.561866
-0.114537
-0.481587
-0.476145
Length of data file 102, most recent value: -0.476145
file_last -0.481587
anomaly -05
So as I sit here in Bournemouth, about as far south as you can get in England, through the window I can see global warming precipitating from the sky and starting to settle on my lawn….Warmer milder winters….haaa
Mike
Ah, but youre not as far south as us here in Teignmouth South Devon where we are all wondering what all the fuss is about as we sip our drinks outside on the terrace. Ok, that last bit isn’t true but we’ve seen no snow at all so far this winter.
tonyb