Just a bit burnt out today. Need to take a rest from blogging. Here’s some tidbits from email submissions to chew on though:
Sing for the Climate: http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2012/12/a-commie-song-for-climate.html#comment-form
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ClimateProgress/Forecast the fact Brad Johnson makes an idiot of himself:
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Michael Mann -vs- Marc Morano:
Marc writes: Note, i was asked at very end to respond to Mann, but my answer was cut off from air or at least transcript.
Source: BBC World Service: Newshour URL: http://www.bishop-hill.net/storage/MannvsMoranoNewshour.mp3
Date: 30/11/2012
Event: Michael Mann: Marc Morano “uses language that makes it sound like we should be subject to death threats”
Credit: Bishop Hill and BBC World Service
Transcript: https://sites.google.com/site/mytranscriptbox/home/20121130_nh
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Moderator. Did my post enter thread purgatory?
[Reply: Rescued & posted now. — mod.]
What Did I Tell You!? says: “DISCOVERED the atmospheric infrared is DECLINING not RISING”
Is that right? Very interesting.
Note on submarines: I was once, recently, told by an AGW GHE alarmist advocate that the GHE is the same thing as cavitation on a submarine propeller! lol
I could ask for someone to explain that to me…but, I’d also like to avoid the brain damage in reading the answer.
3. EPA Rejects Governors’ Plea Over Ethanol
The governors of seven drought-afflicted states petitioned the Environmental Protection Agency, asking for a suspension of rules requiring refiners to blend biofuel — mostly ethanol — into the nation’s gasoline supply.
The governors of Georgia, Texas, Arkansas, North Carolina, Maryland, New Mexico, and Delaware contended that the renewable fuel standard (RFS) program requiring the use of biofuel, combined with the worst drought in 40 years, had pushed corn prices to record highs and harmed the states’ meat and dairy producers, who use corn as an animal feed.
On Friday, Nov. 16, the Obama administration’s EPA turned down the petition. This year about 4.7 billion bushels, or 40 percent of the nation’s corn crop, will be used for ethanol production, and ethanol production is set to increase next year.
China is aggressively seeking steep water and agricultural sustainability control agreements from the EU. The list at the end of the article would set Agriculture back to Medieval ages:
EU, China agree on ag sustainability
http://www.seeddaily.com/reports/EU_China_agree_on_ag_sustainability_999.html
The conflict between ever-increasing food production and sustainability was spotlighted in a U.N. Food and Agricultural Organization released last month, which stresses that better governance of agriculture and food systems is the key to making sustainability possible for a projected world population of 9 billion by 2050.
The FAO said agriculture and food systems consume 30 percent of the world’s energy, while crop and livestock sectors are responsible for 70 percent of all water withdrawals. In the future, however, farmers will have fewer water and energy resources, meaning they will have to produce more with less.
In response, the United Nations is advocating agricultural techniques that draw on “nature’s contribution to agricultural growth,” for example, soil organic matter, water flow regulation, pollination and natural predation of pests.
AGU’s annual San Francisco Fall Mtg starts tomorrow and goes until Friday.
The presenter list is public at the AGU website.
It is intetesting that four of Dr Rob Wilson’s co-authors on the new dentro paper (critical of some Mann research) are sceduled to attend.
Leif Svalgaard is scheduled to attend.
Also Judith Curry.
There is attendance scheduled for a notably strong representation of scientists who are uncritical / non-skeptical of the IPCC’s consensus of bias toward alarmism:
Gleick is scheduled to participate.
Lewandowsky and his very close associate John Cook will attend along will Cook’s supporter Dana N.
As will Mandia of the climate science rapid response team and member of Mann legal defense fund.
Ditto Oreskes and Trenberth and Santer etc etc . . . plus many more advocates of IPCC bias toward alarmism.
John
So name one climate scientist who has put the AGW position but has earned the respect of skeptic land. I can’t think if any.
–LazyTeenager
Off the top of my head, I can name four: Cliff Mass, Judith Curry, Grant Petty and Spencer Weart. These folks believe the CO2 concentration:global warming correlation, but are sane. They are worthy of respect.
Joseph E Postma says:
December 2, 2012 at 8:00 am
You’ll find the atmosphere at WUWT has been polluted with the same type of thinking that was experienced at the beginning of “the global warming debate” by skeptics. Closed minds unable to consider that they may have gauged the science incorrectly. I am happy that my posts are ignored on every thread. It means I am on the right track. Every day that goes by, the empirical evidence ( the stuff that is untampered with) mounts against the alarmists and the lukewarmers and is ignored. As you are aware GHE remains unproven on an atmospheric scale.
The ethanol program is simply an agricultural subsidy and was pushed by the agricultural lobby, which does not give a hoot about any issue other than boosting prices of grain. This program has suceeded marvelously and grain prices rocketed upward. The grain farmers are prospering like never before. Methanol, the alternative to ethanol, can be produced more cheaply than ethanol. You now pay the grain subsidies at the gas pump. CO2, pollution, environment, etc., have nothing to do with the issue except as fodder for the CAGW dupes.
DavidMHoffer, you argue against Stephen Mosher (successfully, I might add) and then turn around and accuse people of being “slayer” acolytes. See the problem?
The Gas is not magic. The 15-micron band outgoing IR can be “absorbed” by the Gas. This can result in several things. The Gas molecule can vibrate and bounce into its neighbor air molecules, producing some heat. Or, it can re-radiate, in which case the IR has a chance of hitting the Earth again. In any case, the Second Law tells us that cool things do not heat warm things, as there is no magic Gas!
Is there a physicist on here who can definitively state the probabilities of the Gas’s absorbed photon producing vibration-and-heat, or re-radiation? I understand it has to do with the length of time until re-radiation might happen. Bueller? Anyone?
Spiegel Online (http://www.spiegel.de) headlines with a report from Doha claiming 5 C warming are imminent. One can only hope that the recent wave of redundancies in the German publishing industry soon sweeps away those propagandists as well.
That’s too funny. Susan Rice, major part of the fundamental threat to the existence of her host nation, is heavily invested. In TransCanada.
http://video.foxnews.com/v/2000536982001/bias-bash-susan-rice-investments/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TransCanada_Corp.
Zeke
There’s that Agenda 21 again.
DaveE.
It is getting hot in Bogota – ‘Bogotá podría ser 4 grados más caliente’:
http://www.eltiempo.com/colombia/bogota/bogot-podra-ser-4-grados-ms-caliente_12416004-4
Yes, folks, Bogota, at some 2,600 meters is beginning to feel the heat. In fact, by 2050, about 4 C more, according to the ‘experts’.
AGW is the gift that keeps on giving.
LazyTeenager says:
December 1, 2012 at 10:44 pm
That’s really smart of you LT, as the original comment explicitly mentioned Wavelet analysis, which is not Fourier transformation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wavelet_transform
That being said, I’m pretty sure that guy fell for some artifacts. Probably he just didn’t use a proper window function or something.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window_function
“The ethanol program is simply an agricultural subsidy and was pushed by the agricultural lobby”
The ethanol program is a destructive mandate in which coercions are used to force citizens to put food in their fuel tanks. Fuel for tanks can be located in ANWR, Canadian oil sands (thus cleaning the natural oil spill from natural habitats), and offshore in our coastal waters. Using corn for our fuel is in fact driving up food prices to 2008 levels, and as a result, people are being pushed from poverty into extreme poverty.
There is no reason for this, and the governors are correct in asking for redress. And this unelected, unaccountable radical environmentalist is allowed to deny the elected people’s representatives release from this nasty government mandate.
David Ball says:
December 2, 2012 at 9:08 am
DavidMHoffer, you argue against Stephen Mosher (successfully, I might add) and then turn around and accuse people of being “slayer” acolytes. See the problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The stuff that Mosher gets wrong and the stuff that the slayers get wrong is completely different stuff.
Michael Moon says:
December 2, 2012 at 10:17 am
Click on Joseph Postma’s name. Read his stuff.
LazyTeenager says:
December 1, 2012 at 10:19 pm
For example we can put a lander on mars to within a few meters using just Newtonian mechanics. But the science of gravity is not settled.
Wrong again, as with pretty much everything you utter on WUWT.
My copy of the JPL Technical Report 32-1527 Mathematical Formulation of the Double-Precision Orbit Determination Program (DPODP) by Theodore E Moyer dated May 15, 1971 says otherwise. Developed between 1964 and 1968 it was first used operationally for Mariner VI and Mariner VII which flew by Mars in 1969.
The Viking program, the first successful landings on Mars in 1975 would undoubtedly have used the DPODP. Paragraph II of the 160 page paper is entitled Relativistic Terms of the DPODP Formulation.
You will find this JPL paper cited in many celestial mechanics papers right up to the present eg:
http://paduaresearch.cab.unipd.it/796/1/phd_thesis_Bardella_Massimo.pdf
Michael Moon: where you say “the Second Law tells us that cool things do not heat warm things”, I say “the Second Law tells us that cool things do not heat warm things as fast as warm things heat cool things”. In other words, radiation (heat) is always happening in all directions, but there is a direction to the net flow.
The GHG hypothesis, which seems to be admirably confirmed by temperatures on a cloudy night, is that the GHG’s can (and do) reduce the net rate of heat loss from the ground and low atmosphere. I’d love to believe the “Slayers”, but currently I don’t and I am not expecting to see a solid proof of their position. But perhaps I will prove to be wrong.
Rich.
Michael Moon;
In any case, the Second Law tells us that cool things do not heat warm things,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No, the 2nd Law tells us that the net flow of energy is from the warm thing to the cold thing. If the cold thing is replaced by nothing, the temperature of nothing is absolute zero, so the warm thing cools faster than it would have were it next to the cold thing instead (unless we define the cold thing as also being absolute zero).
The laws of physics play nice with each other. There is no other way for the 2nd Law and the SB Law to co-exist.
Ball, I reviewed Postma. He does not seem to address this point. The warmist meme of “re-radiation” needs to be slain, once and for all, by a recognized authority. Hoffer, the Second Law is well-understood by most, does not need to be restated by you, Rich, or anyone. “Heat” can be used as a verb, which I did, correctly. The vast majority of citizens have not studied these matters, and can easily be fooled by pseudo-science such as “Re-radiation.” Once again, any physicists here, who could tell us exactly how a Gas molecule reacts when a 15-micron “Photon” is “absorbed?” Without violating the 2nd?
gymnosperm says:
Since the 256, 512, and 1024 cycles “correspond” with the base 4/16 (English) memory modules in your computer, surely it must be an artifact.
They are also multiples of 256. Wonder if someone will attempt to define the PDO as being 64 years. Thus making the 256 “cycle” an integer number of PDOs.
mpainter says:
The ethanol program is simply an agricultural subsidy and was pushed by the agricultural lobby, which does not give a hoot about any issue other than boosting prices of grain. This program has suceeded marvelously and grain prices rocketed upward. The grain farmers are prospering like never before. Methanol, the alternative to ethanol, can be produced more cheaply than ethanol. You now pay the grain subsidies at the gas pump. CO2, pollution, environment, etc., have nothing to do with the issue except as fodder for the CAGW dupes.
When it comes producing ethanol using Saccharomyces cerevisiae all that is required is glucose. If would be perfectly possible to use something inedible by either humans or domestic animals as a source of glucose.
Michael Moon;
Hoffer, the Second Law is well-understood by most, does not need to be restated by you, Rich, or anyone.
>>>>>>>>
REPLY: Because you keep misrepresenting it and showing that you DON’T understand it.
Michael Moon;
tell us exactly how a Gas molecule reacts when a 15-micron “Photon” is “absorbed?” Without violating the 2nd?
REPLY: There you go again!