Tom Nelson writes:
If CO2 is really such an all-powerful warming factor, and if the science is so settled, why does warmist Gavin Schmidt have so much trouble explaining why the southeastern US hasn’t warmed since the 1930s?:
“Whether this is due to some oddity in the weather patterns, air pollution effects, irrigation or something else is unclear.”
Here’s the story:
Alabama’s heat wave: A preview of global warming or just a hot spell? | al.com
HUNTSVILLE, Alabama Alabama’s heat wave is just part of the normal climate roller coaster, not global warming, according to state climatologist and University of Alabama in Huntsville climate scientist Dr. John Christy…
“Since (today’s) temperatures aren’t higher than earlier temperatures, it doesn’t look like ‘global warming,'” Christy said, “but more like a problem we still wrestle with: unpredictable natural variability.” Christy said no one knows what causes these natural shifts in climate.
“The heat wave today is primarily natural climate variability,” agreed Dr. William Patzert, an global climate change researcher with the Jet Propulsion Laboratory at the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena.
“But it’s also a preview of coming attractions of what we are contributing to the atmosphere in greenhouse gases, which is definitely gonna heat it up,” Patzert said Friday.
“I am sounding the warning about what global warming will do out into the future,” Patzert said. “If you think it’s hot today, come back and take the temperature on July 6, 2050.” A hot summer day in 2050 or even 2030 could be 115 degrees, Patzert said.
Patzert said the Earth is about 1.6 degrees Fahrenheit warmer than it was 129 years ago, when Alabama began keeping the weather records Christy has researched. “The unequivocal proof of that is that much of that warming has gone into the oceans,” Patzert said. “We have seen an 8 inch rise in global sea level.”
…Other climate scientists asked by The Huntsville Times to review Christy’s findings last week also cautioned against linking Alabama’s current climate and “global warming.”
“It is true that one of the few places in the world where temperatures have not exceeded temperatures in the 1930s is the southeastern U.S. (including Alabama),” Dr. Gavin Schmidt, a climatologist at NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York, said in an email. “Whether this is due to some oddity in the weather patterns, air pollution effects, irrigation or something else is unclear.”
But Alabama weather over the last 100 years or so has “very little to do with global warming,” Schmidt said. “It certainly isn’t the case that predictions of Alabama temperatures can ignore what’s happening globally,” Schmidt said. “It is just that there is more noise … when you get to the state or local level. ”
Dr. Virginia Sickle-Burkett, chief scientist for global change research with the U.S. Geologic Survey, said in an email that the role of humans in climate change has been demonstrated scientifically.
“Multiple lines of scientific evidence [like what, specifically?] indicate that most of the increase in average global temperatures since the mid-20th century is due to human influences on the atmosphere,” she said. Sickle-Burkett agreed with Schmidt that the Southeast’s climate has been less affected so far, for some reason, but that global warming is real.
Related articles
- The folly of blaming the Eastern U.S. heat wave on global warming (wattsupwiththat.com)
- An Example Of Media Hype By John Vidale In The Guardian (pielkeclimatesci.wordpress.com)
- The Climate of Our Forefathers (valleywx.com)
- The Kevin Trenberth / Seth Borenstein aided fact free folly on the USA heat wave (wattsupwiththat.com)
We could do with a bit of your global warming over here in the UK please. I’m completely fed up with our wretched summer; it’s cold and wet. Wimbledon men’s finals being played with the roof on. My garden is saturated. The only things thriving are the slugs. It’s dire. So much for our supposed hotter, drier summers.
The argument is very simple. If the global climate models are correct, then the temperature will go up substantially. Of course, AR5 has it going up 2.8 C by 2100, not 2050, and starts that 2.8 C at some time in the past (so it already includes some fraction of the warming of the last 30 years). Of course 2.8 C is 5 F (almost exactly), which means that one could see temperatures as high as 105 F by 2100 where one sees temperatures as high as 100 F 30 years ago. Now, back in the early 1980s there was a heat wave that ran across the south that I actually remember because temperatures in Durham (and a lot of the South) reached 105 F. We were driving from NC to Texas at the time, and it was sizzling all the way.
rgb
“Patzert said the Earth is about 1.6 degrees Fahrenheit warmer than it was 129 years ago, when Alabama began keeping the weather records Christy has researched. “The unequivocal proof of that is that much of that warming has gone into the oceans,” Patzert said. “We have seen an 8 inch rise in global sea level.””
My family has had a farm on the western shore of the Susquehanna Flats since the late sixteen hundreds. In that time frame, there doesn’t appear to have been any noticeable rise in sea level, let alone 8 inches. Maybe the Chesapeake Bay is connected to a different ocean than is the Gulf of Mexico.
Jay Davis
timetochooseagain wrote: Isn’t it nice how the Alabama media apparently can’t be satisfied with consulting with the scientist who knows more about Alabama’s climate than anyone? Clearly they hoped that the other people they talked to would assure them that Christy was wrong, and that Alabama is doomed to fry by global warming.
Too bad that the reporter didn’t find a climatologist to discuss weather patterns, instead of a couple of climate scientists.
Use the US climate at a Glance, and look at the Alabama summer (JJA) temperature record. The highest Alabama summer temperature was set in 2010, and 2011 came in sixth. This year could set a new record if July and August come in above normal.
Gail Combs
Thanx for the E.M.Smith article. This is the second time I have read it and I like the stitching together of pieces of human history on the bumpy climate road.
What is intriguing to me is the predictions of climate change around 2030. These are the dates that Robert Ellison (Chief Hydrologist aka Captain Kangaroo aka…) suggests will be the time for another regime change based upon oceanic/atmospheric regime changes ala Tsonis et al.
Hmmm. Arriving at similar prediction dates using two different approaches: one, observational and a 12000 year perspective and the other observing recent ocean currents and atmospheric pressure episodes.
Of course Smith and Captain Kangaroo could be in cahoots and are in the pay of big oil and are just trying to confuse us muddle-headed skeptics. But, a prediction is a prediction, and some of us will be around to see: true or false.
paul kr, I am still hoping for your response to Rockwood, re your take on arctic ice in the 1930s.
Sounds like Gavin is being honest and NOT being an alarmist on this one. He should be applauded.
So some scientists and some politicians are blaming AGW for the heat wave in the USA. Well, here in the UK we are suffering from the coolest, wetest and most windy Summer for years. And guess what. Our environment secretary blamed in all on climate change. Which to her means CAGW.
Paul K2 says-
“The trend shows that the summers in the Southeast got much cooler after the 1930s, but the last 32 years (satellite era), the summer temperature has risen about 1.28 deg F (about 0.40 deg F per decade).”
Actually, the unadjusted data (GHCN adjustments are not justifiable and should be ignored) gives the following trends in degrees C/decade for the SouthEast region-
The key is:
Season…1981-1990…1991-2000…2001-2009
Winter…-0.06…-0.01…0.00
Spring…-0.04…-0.03…-0.02
Summer…-0.03…-0.02…-0.00
Fall…-0.02…-0.03…-0.01
These are changes in degrees Celcius per decade. The table is flooded with negative numbers. I know not from whence your CACC data derives.
We will all know if the South-East US climate has warmed when citrus crops are once again widely harvested as far north as South Carolina, like they were in the past.
You end with-
“…the recent winters have been quite erratic, with a couple of very cold winters… just what we would expect from recent meteorology theories.”
This is the type of foundational logic underlying astrology, phrenology and similar non-scientific fields of study.
Schmidt’s answer above would make sense regardless of whether the warming was CO2 induced or not. I’m sure you’re aware of that Anthony. So why would you re-publish such a silly post by Nelson and use a headline that indicates that Schmidt is “on the ropes”?
chris y wrote: You end with-
“…the recent winters have been quite erratic, with a couple of very cold winters… just what we would expect from recent meteorology theories.”
This is the type of foundational logic underlying astrology, phrenology and similar non-scientific fields of study.
Do you know what recent meteorology theories I am talking about? I discussed them and linked at the “Eastern Heat Wave” thread. The trend to cold winters in the NH mid-latitudes is discussed in the Cohen paper. Here I will provide a link:
http://web.mit.edu/jlcohen/www/papers/Cohenetal_GRL12.pdf
Are you really claiming the NCDC is that wrong on temperatures?
I did put a comment up talking about the Alabama state summer records, showing 2010 as the hottest summer in recorded history for Alabama, but the comment is caught up in moderation.
Paul K2 says: “Too bad that the reporter didn’t find a climatologist to discuss weather patterns, instead of a couple of climate scientists.”
Huh? This statement is utterly incomprehensible.
“Use the US climate at a Glance, and look at the Alabama summer (JJA) temperature record. The highest Alabama summer temperature was set in 2010, and 2011 came in sixth. This year could set a new record if July and August come in above normal.”
John Christy uses much more data than NCDC does to more accurately construct a regional temperature history. But the primary difference: In the case of John Christy’s record of summer temperatures for Alabama is based off the daily max temps which correspond to, know, the actual “extreme heat”. So there is no reason to prefer NCDC’s data to John Christy’s record. On the contrary, it makes a lot more sense to use the record compiled by that state’s State Climatologist. Even so, according to NCDC’s mean temps for JJA for Alabama since 1895, the trend is:
-0.06 degF / Decade
Using individual years or shorter term trends is what is commonly know as “cherry-picking” and many among the more alarmed are quite critical of it when skeptics do so. It is amusing that it is okay when you do it, though.
Ray says:
July 8, 2012 at 8:32 am
A heat wave in Alabama is not Global! I know some would like to think they live in the center of the universe but this is getting ridiculous. What in Global they don’t understand? It’s just a local heat wave, stupid.
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But it’s a PR opportunity. The global climate isn’t cooperating so the PR must be stepped up.
Patzert’s sales tactics are revolting. I see no mention from this “scientist” that it was hotter on earth 1000 years ago than it is now. Is it because of grant money for global warming that he talks like this? I’m just asking.
Speaking of John Christy and Gavin Schmidt here is a video of them in a mini debate about “global warming. One has to wonder why Gavin Schmidt feels the need to interrupt.
This week’s New Scientist explains it all. “Our weather is not only becoming more extreme, it’s becoming more extreme than anyone expected.” (I wonder if that includes Jim Hansen?) “Events like the 2003 and 2010 heatwaves were expected to occur only after greater warming, towards the end of the century.” The graphics show a bell curve displaced 1 to 2 sigma hotter: to the right of the orange slice labelled “extreme heat” is a new previously absent red tail labelled “unprecedented heat”. As King Alfred might have said, you can kiss your buns goodbye.
If you look at the ‘divisions’ instead of States in the NCDC data, there are a WHOLE LOT of areas that show either negative or no particular trend over the century.
Irrigation? Alabama has very little irrigation. You want irrigation, look at southwest Kansas or central California. Both show no clear century trend, in both the ’30s are still champion.
Readers:
Here are some clarifying remarks on the subject of Alabama summer temperatures. First, for background, the press release was given 1 July and is reproduced at this media outlet.
http://www.fox54.com/story/18920344/uahuntsville-study-on-heat-and-climatology
Secondly, as Timetochoose noted, my temperature comments were based on TMax, not TMean which is all that “Climate at a Glance” provides. TMean is contaminated by TMin which is heavily affected by nearby surface development as many of us have shown in publications through the years, so it is, according to our evidence, an unreliable metric for “climate.”
Thirdly, I had available to me hundreds of station-months not included in NCDC’s digital archive to take the series back to 1883 and fill in other gaps (see figure in press release.)
Fourthly, the time series was reconstructed through a pair-wise comparison test similar to USHCNv2 but with a more localized emphasis.
Fifthly, Paul K2 is probably correct that the NCDC data available (as is) show 2010 as very warm due primarily to the very warm TMins in the cities and towns. This metric is not TMax which represents the deeper layer of the atmosphere due to normal daily summer convection and thus a more useful climate variable as a representative of heat content of the atmosphere (see Christy et al. 2009 for explanations).
Sixthly, the times series is for “Interior Alabama” which is basically starting at Greenville AL and driving north on I-65 to the Tennessee line and capturing all the stations within 50 miles of I-65. The is the area with the highest density of stations needed for such an analysis and where most of the people in Alabama live.
Finally, if starting in 1895 using the average of USHCNv2 TMax for the 11 stations in Interior Alabama, the trends of both my preliminary time series and USHCNv2 are between -0.08 and -0.09 C/decade.
With the very poor state that the educational system in America has become I imagine many that have graduated in recent years don’t even know about this:
Paul k2-
“Are you really claiming the NCDC is that wrong on temperatures?”
NCDC’s adjustments are FOS. Lets go with your claim that NCDC’s adjustments are not FOS.
The table changes to the following-
The key is:
Season…1981-1990…1991-2000…2001-2009
Winter…0.00…+0.05…+0.06
Spring…-0.01…0.00…+0.02
Summer…-0.02…0.00…+0.02
Fall…+0.01…+0.01…+0.03
These are changes in degrees Celcius per decade. The summer trend is 0.00 degrees/decade over the last 3 decades.
Your claim of CACC-induced summer temperatures ramping up in the South-East is ridiculous, even when using NCDC’s adjusted temperatures.
Did anyone else notice Gavin’s comment:
It is just that there is more noise…when you get to the state and local level.”?
Perhaps it is simply my layman’s ignorance, but as we get to the state and local level, don’t we have more accurate measurements of temperature? Wouldn’t it be easier to weed out the noise because we are closer to the ground, so to speak? Is it folly to make such a statement since the global temperature anomaly is calculated using the local data–at least at GISS and HadCRUT? I would dearly like some explanation of this statement.
James Schrumpf (@ShroomKeppie) says:
July 8, 2012 at 8:17 am
What WOULD it take for these people to agree that AGW was a failed hypothesis?
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That’s easy
Just give the UN complete world control and whatever else they want and they will happily let CAGW go away.
“Water Justice” is their next cause. The UN appears about ready to dump the cagw line for “sustainability.”
Ian W
So now heat is measured in inches?
Maybe that’s Penile Units, or Micro Manhattens, or something.
Timetochoose: yes, what I wrote doesn’t make sense. I meant to say “didn’t find a pair of meteorologists” not “climatologists” to discuss changing weather patterns and extreme weather.
I read Dr. Christy’s response, and find a few things problems with using his data to test whether seasonal temperature trends in Alabama summers are warming. He still is averaging the colder winters into the hotter summers, and saying “look, no change over the last 100+ years”. Yes, but after the early effects of human change on the Alabama countryside, followed by the growth of industry, including the steel industry in N. Alabama, what would be interesting is the temperature record in the last 30 years, say the satellite era. He is carefully avoiding the fact that the summers have gotten hotter, and the average temperature reported by NOAA shows three of the seven hottest summers in Alabama history occurred in the last five years (2010 is hottest, 2011 was sixth, and 2007 was seventh).
According to AGW theory, the summer nights should be warming faster than the summer days due to decreased OLR due to the GHG effect. So a more composite temperature anomaly record would be useful to check this part of the theory.
The winters significantly deviate from AGW theory expectations. There are some erratic winter temperatures very recently, with the winter of 2010 the fourth coldest. This is where the meteorological theory of arctic amplification reduction of the arctic ice pack, causing shifts in the jet stream kicks in. In the winter, only one or two extended blocking patterns in the jet stream sending arctic air down into Alabama, can impact the winter temperature anomaly significantly. The data from Alabama seems consistent with this.
And Alabama is not alone. The same effect is seen throughout the NH mid-latitude land areas, but especially in certain longitudes where the jet stream is prone to shift and dip far to the south. The paper by Judah Cohen, that I have linked several times on this site, covers an analysis of the “Asymmetric Seasonal Temperature Trends”. And Dr. Jennifer Francis has identified longitudes where the elongated Rossby waves have been observed. Eventually, the next step is to analyze recent jet stream activity regionally, and link this activity to extreme weather events. And the data from Alabama (and similar data from Georgia, Mississippi, North Carolina, and South Carolina) all show 2010 as the hottest summer in recorded history, with 2011 either 2nd or 3rd hottest. And this year is on track to be the hottest yet!
What is the statistical chance of getting the three hottest summers in a consecutive sequence? Very low, less than five chances in a million (although some could argue for a Hurst statistical analysis which would lead to a lower probability).
The evidence is becoming clear, that hotter summers are arriving. And if the “Arctic amplification leads to extreme weather” theory holds up, the US is going to see some pretty extreme weather events.
^Here^ we see more globaloney from Paul K2.
Cherry-picking one state, or one region and extrapolating from that example isn’t science, it is pseudo-science. The mendacious Gavin Schmidt and K2 want us to believe in runaway global warming, instead of believing our lying eyes.