Off to chase the eclipse with my children, and then travel tomorrow to Heartland conference. Airplane has WiFi so may be able to keep up with posting en-route.
Expect moderation delays today and tomorrow.
Hopefully will post an eclipse image tonight.
One more question about ocean thermal gradients.
In the earth’s crust the deeper the warmer. But in the ocean, the deeper the colder until it stabilizes just above zero and remains constant all the way to the bottom. With molten hot magma beneath, and warm surface conditions above why is there very cold water, and a large quantity of it, in between? Are the oceans that much of a heat sink that it is a legacy of ice ball earth eons ago? Or is it something else?
I can just see Anthony and his entire family all in welding helmets.
LOL.
Don Allen says:
May 20, 2012 at 1:35 pm
Wonder how long it will take for this early tropical storm off the SC/GA coast to get the warmers screaming?
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I do not know about the “Climate Collaborators” but sure had me screaming. I just hope it hits North Carolina mid week.
The jet stream has been really weird all week BTW.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/new-phrenology_644420.html
Demolishing the ‘science’ behind the Republican brain.
goldenberg’s “gleick cleared” article in the guardian has been “disappeared” it seems.
404 Page not found
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/may/20/peter-gleick-cleared-heartland
however, this – which will no doubt interest Gleick – has been “found”:
20 May: Nature: Amanda Mascarelli: Source found for missing water in sea-level rise
Human use of water contributes markedly to rising tides
A team of researchers reports in Nature Geoscience that land-based water storage could account for 0.77 millimetres per year, or 42%, of the observed sea-level rise between 1961 and 2003. Of that amount, the extraction of groundwater for irrigation and home and industrial use, with subsequent run-off to rivers and eventually to the oceans, represents the bulk of the contribution.
Taikan Oki, a global hydrologist at the University of Tokyo and an author on the paper, says that he was initially “astonished” at how well the team’s estimates of terrestrial water usage filled the deficit between the observed sea-level rise and what was accounted for by thermal water expansion and melting ice…
Both teams used models to simulate the contribution from groundwater extraction, but Bierkens’ team relied on reported data whereas Oki’s team computed the total amount of groundwater pumped around the world and cross-checked its findings in certain regions. Each team acknowledges that its simulations have limitations and says that more on-site measurements of groundwater use are needed.
Nevertheless, the message is clear, says Yadu Pokhrel, a postdoctoral researcher in global hydrology at Rutgers University in New Jersey and lead author of the latest study.
http://www.nature.com/news/source-found-for-missing-water-in-sea-level-rise-1.10676
Luther Wu says:
May 20, 2012 at 2:28 pm
“A review has cleared the scientist Peter Gleick of forging any documents in his exposé of the rightwing Heartland Institute…”
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Well, I’m certainly convinced. How about you?
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No bias to see here. Move along ………
Louis Hooffstetter says:
May 20, 2012 at 4:13 pm
She’s been hanging around the Team too much. She does her reporting the same way they do their research.
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I tweeted her twice. The first time asking for sources to the story. The second time asking for an explanation as to why the story has been disappeared. She didn’t respond to me, but only tweeted about HI losing donations.
A bit of research shows that her reporting has fallen under great suspicion before, though not related to climate. http://suyts.wordpress.com/2012/05/20/gleick-seemingly-now-un-cleared-of-forgery/#comment-10921
stan says:
May 20, 2012 at 5:40 pm
http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/new-phrenology_644420.html
Demolishing the ‘science’ behind the Republican brain.
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Politicians HAVE a (thinking) BRAIN? Thats news to me. I thought they only had a hind brain set on GREED.
Pretty good replies on ocean temperature. The is one additional aspect: the warm and cold water spheres. The warm water sphere is essentially the annulus of water from the surface down to a few hundred to a few thousand feet depending. It’s motion is driven by wind shere and the coriolis committee and forms the great gyres. Below that is the cold water sphere formed by spreading of cold water that forms at the surface in polar regions. there it sinks and spreads north and south. it still gets colder the deeper you go but most of the colder happens from the surface to the bottom of the warm water sphere. look at world wide thermoclines. get a book on physical oceanography.
Just psychobabble Gail.
Ed MacAulay says:
May 20, 2012 at 2:37 pm
Too much ice for boating!
“Two rowers from the U.K. have dropped their plan to try to row from St. John’s to England in time for the 2012 summer Olympic Games in London.
Roz Savage and Andrew Morris said they believe the risk posed by sea ice, bergy-bits and icebergs off the east coast of Newfoundland this year is too high.”
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2012/05/20/nl-rowers-cancel-520.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
They could still easily get here before summer does…
I’m glad to see that renewables are displacing fossil fuel for power generation.
According to Bloomberg New Energy Finance and the International Energy Agency, investment in renewables for power production rose from $50bn in 2004 to $260b in 2011. Over the same time investment in fossil fuel power production fell from $250b to $40b.
Graphed here… http://thisnessofathat.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/fossil-fuel-dependence-dead-end.html
Oops – mods, one stuck in the spam filter (one too-many odd links I suspect).
TIA _Jim
Seems the guardian article is gone on Peter Gleik. I even googled the article and it comes up as not found.
Rats!!!! Overcast and drizzling, just south of Seattle!
‘No eclipse for you!’ Damn eclipse Nazi…..
Online book on physical oceanography:
http://oceanworld.tamu.edu/resources/ocng_textbook/contents.html
navytech says:
May 20, 2012 at 5:05 pm
One more question about ocean thermal gradients.
In the earth’s crust the deeper the warmer. But in the ocean, the deeper the colder until it stabilizes just above zero and remains constant all the way to the bottom. With molten hot magma beneath, and warm surface conditions above why is there very cold water, and a large quantity of it, in between? Are the oceans that much of a heat sink that it is a legacy of ice ball earth eons ago? Or is it something else?
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It’s because rock is a terrible thermal conductor, more of an insulator. Also because the only two means of heating the ocean are via the sea or underwater volcanism/hot springs. The sun can only heat the top several hundred feet or so.
When newly created at the midocean ridges, oceanic crust is hot. However the upper layer is very porous, owing to the way lava is deposited in pillow basalts. This porosity allows cold bottom water to circulate, cooling the rock very effectively. The warmed water then emerges in hot springs or black smokers, where it quickly rises away from the ocean floor, being replaced by more cold water. Large plumes of hot water from eruptions can form vortexes. As oceanic crust moves away from the mid ocean ridges, the thermal flux slows dramatically, approaching the low rate at which it conducts through the rock from the mantle.
Sorry, I didn’t realize the book had been written by anti-science nuts, how dare they suggest late 20th century warming isn’t 100% anthropogenic. /sarc
http://oceanworld.tamu.edu/resources/ocng_textbook/chapter05/Images/Fig5-14.htm
“A review has cleared the scientist Peter Gleick of forging any documents in his exposé of the rightwing Heartland Institute…”
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Luther Wu says: “Well, I’m certainly convinced. How about you?”
Could be true. Assuming, of course, that there’s another Peter Gleick who (1) didn’t steal the Heartland documents and (2) is an actual scientist.
we are not “real people”…
19 May: San Juan Capistrano Patch: Justin Petruccelli: Water Wizards Ponder Future
The occasion was the Orange County Water District’s 2012 Water Summit, and the topics ranged from water-stingy fabrics to global warming…
The highlight of the early morning sessions was a presentation by Nobel Laureate and renowned climate change expert Dr. Michael Mann, who provided a historical perspective on climate change and how it could ultimately affect water levels and the environment as a whole if left unchecked…
“Some of the attacks against the science are actually thinly veiled attacks against the scientists who are just like me out there doing research. They use words like ‘hysteria’ and ‘fraud’ and try to paint this picture of climate scientists as being part of some sort of conspiracy to take away their liberty to emit CO2 into the atmosphere. I don’t think real people worry about that.”…
“…There are so many challenges in our lives, and it’s easy to sort of shove these things aside as this long-term problem that’s way off in the future. That’s where it become essential that policy-makers help us establish incentives.”…
http://sanjuancapistrano.patch.com/articles/oc-water-summit-brings-together-public-private-stakeholders
Can any of the climate models predict the pre-change climate for all the regions to match the Köppen climate classification?
mildaykerr says:
May 20, 2012 at 6:33 pm
I’m glad to see that renewables are displacing fossil fuel for power generation.
According to Bloomberg New Energy Finance and the International Energy Agency, investment in renewables for power production rose from $50bn in 2004 to $260b in 2011. Over the same time investment in fossil fuel power production fell from $250b to $40b.
Graphed here… http://thisnessofathat.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/fossil-fuel-dependence-dead-end.html
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Yes, wouldn’t that be nice if a couple of things were true? Like one renewables being almost useful…. it just so happens they’re not. And two, if the actual numbers graphed reflected any sort of reality. ….. it just so happens they don’t. And as a bonus “wouldn’t it be nice”…… wouldn’t it be nice if some people would actually read what was sourced…… http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-05-10/big-oils-big-in-biofuels …… And, you really, really shouldn’t buy into what is stated at the “Conversation”. They’re a beautiful group of people, they just aren’t grounded very well.
H.R…
“I’ll leave the economics of that (payback for install, maintenance, batteries, etc.) as an exercise for the reader ;o)”
The whole idea of harvesting power off of cars by installing plates in the road or wind turbines along road edges has been brought up time and again, and it isn’t so much maintenance, install and batteries that are the problem. The real problem is that by breaking up the wind or slowing down the road, you are reducing people’s mpg and pretty much making a very inefficient gasoline powered generator .
“www.guardian.co.uk › Environment › Climate change skepticism
12 hours ago – A review has cleared the scientist Peter Gleick of forging any documents in his exposé of the right wing Heartland Institute’s strategy and …”
Not there it has been removed!
mildaykerr says:
May 20, 2012 at 6:33 pm
“I’m glad to see that renewables are displacing fossil fuel for power generation.
According to Bloomberg New Energy Finance and the International Energy Agency, investment in renewables for power production rose from $50bn in 2004 to $260b in 2011. Over the same time investment in fossil fuel power production fell from $250b to $40b. ”
mildaykerr, what would you rather invest in. Stuff that is guaranteed subsidies over 20 years or stuff that has to compete with the subsidized stuff.