( March 2, 2012) – In response to actions taken by Virginia’s Attorney General, the Supreme Court of Virginia ruled today that the University of Virginia and all other state agencies cannot be served with civil investigative demands which compel agencies to provide information for fraud investigations involving government funds.
In response, American Tradition Institute’s Christopher Horner (Director of Litigation) stated:
“It has been our opinion from the outset of our pursuit of these public records that, by getting the University to admit it possessed records it was telling the public were destroyed, the Attorney General had already won.
There is no argument that these are not state property, or that the FOI law doesn’t expressly cover them; as acknowledged in UVa’s faculty handbook, its website, agreements faculty must sign, and elsewhere.
And so we look forward to their release under the Freedom of Information Act.”
For requests to interview Mr. Horner, contact Tom Tanton, ATI’s Executive Director at info@atinstitute.org or (916)645-2854.
Streetcred says:
March 2, 2012 at 8:14 pm
Explanation here
http://johnosullivan.livejournal.com/48166.html
Excellent, thank you.
Streetcred: That is a good site and it’s nice to see Dr Ball is getting somewhere, but I think that mpaul above has hit the nail on the head though. ATI is NOT a VA governmental agency so the current ruling doesn’t apply to them — THEY still have FOIA rights. This is going to get very interesting.
Hoist on their own petard.
GeoLurking says:
March 2, 2012 at 6:11 pm
“Virginia is for Larceny™”
Sort of has a nice ring to it.
—————————————————-
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA.. Perfect!!
The simple answer would be for the Attorney General to say that as you are part of the government the University gets no funding until it complies and/or sack the board of the University.
I don’t understand some of the things he says. This was the state’s highest court deciding the meaning of a state law. There is no appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court. Even if the Supreme Court had declared the corporations are people in Citizens United (which it didn’t), it would have no affect on this case. As I said on another thread, I think the dissent in the Virginia case makes a good argument that the majority was wrong, but that’s not how the court saw it.
So were the people on that court Democrats or Republicans? Liberals or Conservatives? Did they apply the law without bias? Did they legislate from the bench?
In summary: –
1. After this decision in Virginia the University is not subject to the particular law BUT by implication the requested email correspondence DOES exist.
2. In British Columbia the defendant (Tim Ball) has the absolute right to see these emails (which are now agreed to exist) under the process of discovery in the case (“Belongs in State Pen rather than Penn State” jibe) bought by Michael Mann. Either Mann submits to the discovery process or has to withdraw his claim or lose his reputation.
3. There are still solid grounds for the Virginia AG to proceed against Mann and/or the University using other laws.
Is my reading of the situation correct? If so this seems like tremendous progress.
With the reputations of Mann and Gleick both suffering through their own actions it has been a good few weeks recently.
My local shop can’t keep up – I’m going to have to buy a popcorn machine of my own.
gnomish says:
March 2, 2012 at 6:15 pm
jeez… there’s no rationale for triumphalism in this narrative.
your target eluded you. you lost.
there’s no way to spin it without looking like a pinwheel yourself.
BUT there is for optimism. Something you greenie-beenies don’t understand, eh?
Article 3 of the Virginia Declaration of Rights adopted in 1776 stated:
“That government is, or ought to be, instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security of the people, nation or community; of all the various modes and forms of government that is best, which is capable of producing the greatest degree of happiness and safety and is most effectually secured against the danger of maladministration…”
And what value now have the the words of Abraham Lincoln in the Gettysburg address: “…we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.”
The common factor is ‘the people’. The so called ‘government funds’ are actually the people’s funds. The government is of the people and governs for the people by those elected to represent the people. Independence was supposed to mean that taxation was only acceptable if the interests of the people were represented by those elected to represent them in government.
From what the founding fathers wrote it seems there is no such thing as ‘government funds’. The funds administered by the government should be considered of the people and are administered by the people elected to administer them, for the benefit of the people who elected them.
“Oldseadog says:
March 3, 2012 at 1:00 am
My local shop can’t keep up – I’m going to have to buy a popcorn machine of my own.
”
Given all the excitement and the clear need to popcorn amongst the readers, in this time of recession and austerity, WUWT really should put up a prominent link for visitors that teaches them how to make popcorn in a microwave =)
Look it’s easy: mix 1 tablespoon water with 1 tablespoon sugar and 25 gm popcorn in a pyrex bowl and put lid on top.
Microwave 3-4 minutes at 800 watts until (almost) everything is popped, then set aside, open the lid to let the steam disperse and corn dry.
Bon appetite!
(If you like it more caramelised, heat the water and sugar first to caramelise it, then carefully and quickly add the corn and put the lid on, then microwave as above.)
Happy nuking and munching!
What it means is, you’re never going to get justice or truth from modern Western governments.
They’re hopelessly infected, hopelessly Stalinized, hopelessly tyrannical.
If you want justice and truth, you’ll have to get them outside the official system.
Meanwhile in Australia, we are now facing the worst peacetime threat in our history to freedom of the press, freedom of speech and democracy itself
“Mr. Ray Finkelstein QC, a left-wing former Federal Court Judge with no media experience, at the request of the Gillard Government, issued a 400 page report which calls for a Big Brother Super-Regulator to ‘regulate’ political speech and – among other things – impose new laws with the power to stop climate change realists from speaking up.
Its “recommendations” will sicken every single Australian: They actually call for a Big Brother Super-Regulator to censor not just the newspapers and TV, but websites, personal blogs, and even what you say on Twitter!”
http://www.australianclimatemadness.com/2012/03/censorship-comes-to-australia
For further background to the Union and political corruption that is fuelling this push for censorship:
http://kangaroocourtaustralia.com/
Sorry. The link to kangaroocourtaustralia seems to be getting misdirected. Google the link instead and go to the correct site which has the names Stephen Conroy and Finkelstein mentioned. I warn that it is mind-blowing information which will astound all!
Looks like Virginia needs an ICAC
The statement says “cannot be served with civil investigative demands” but then says “which compel agencies to provide information for fraud investigations involving government funds.”
That sounds like this needed to start as a criminal fraud investigation to be able to obtain evidence of fraud.
There is always the criminal conspiracy angle which this ruling does not apply to.
The legislature can always hold up the funding court ruling or not.
Try http://kangaroocourtofaustralia.com/ instead. Although I don’t see the names you mentioned.
Mesa Econoguy says March 2, 2012 at 6:18 pm: “There are multiple remedies here, including appeal by VA AG Cuccinelli, should he so choose.”
Dismissed “with prejudice” by the state Supreme Court means no appeal.
Ah, found the Finkelstein article, interesting stuff (and I’m from the US):
http://kangaroocourtofaustralia.com/2011/09/26/justice-finkelstein-and-a-fist-full-of-dollars-this-is-the-clown-running-the-australian-media-inquiry/
The Virginia statute concerning CID apparently does not include state entities, i.e. UVA. End of story.
However, declaring UVA a state entity of the Commonwealth does reinforce the idea that it is subject to FOIA.
Amino Acids in Meteorites says March 3, 2012 at 12:06 am: “So were the people on that court Democrats or Republicans? Liberals or Conservatives? Did they apply the law without bias? Did they legislate from the bench?”
Virginia is a relatively conservative state, with the exceptions of Northern Virginia and Norfolk. Its Constitution was penned by George Mason and James Madison in 1776. Thomas Jefferson provided comments but they were too late to be included. The Virgina Constitution and Bill of Rights inspired their Federal equivalents. So there is a profound legal heritage in Virginia which I believe (hope) informs the legislature and judiciary today.
Personally I believe the ruling is legally and technically correct, however much I’d like to see the emails and documents unveiled (we had a taste of them in the UEA Climategate files). The ATI’s FOIA seems a more appropriate vehicle in this instance.
@KV says:
March 3, 2012 at 4:26 am
Sorry. The link to kangaroocourtaustralia seems to be getting misdirected. Google the link instead and go to the correct site which has the names Stephen Conroy and Finkelstein mentioned. I warn that it is mind-blowing information which will astound all!
————————————————————————————————
WUWT?
Domain-lock: LOCKED
Creation: 2011-02-21
Update: 2011-02-21
Expiration: 2012-02-21
http://www.whoisentry.com/domain/kangaroocourtaustralia.com
I thought that Mann would drop his suit against Tim Ball rather than provide the E-Mails, but then it’s the UVA – apparently – that has them in its files. One would think that Mann would lose in Canada, but … They sue in Canada for “the guy belongs in the state pen not Penn State”? Canada, Australia, US government defining and enforcing “environmental justice” while NASA (or was it another agency) proposes that the government defince scientific ethics. These are the last bastions of freedom. My alarmism of the day: Anthropogenic Global Silencing.
Unless there is something not yet linked, I don’t see where UVA explicity identified for the record that the cache of E-Mails exists. And they can always accidentally destroy them or fire someone for doing so and hire them back in another department. I’m going with we’re never going to see them – just like you never see much of a big court award if the other side would rather outspend you on appeals.