People send me stuff… UPDATE: See below for another interpretation
Remember how this was phrased? “sign it, it’s just voluntary!”
Recall Rio 1992 “Earth Summit” where the meme was “hey, it’s voluntary!…with a negotiating schedule attached”. Apparently, like a Roach Motel, “countries check in but they can’t check out”. This email is from UNFCCC’s list server and note my bolded section below. The arrogance, it burns.
—–Original Message—–
From: globalmedialist-all <globalmedialist-all@lists.unfccc.int>
To: globalmedialist-all <globalmedialist-all@lists.unfccc.int>; germanmedialist <germanmedialist@lists.unfccc.int>
Sent: Tue, Dec 13, 2011 4:46 am
Subject: [UNFCCC medialist] STATEMENT BY UNFCCC CHIEF ON CANADA’S ANNOUNCEMENT TO WITHDRAW FROM KYOTO PROTOCOL
STATEMENT BY UNFCCC CHIEF ON CANADA’S ANNOUNCEMENT TO WITHDRAW FROM KYOTO PROTOCOL
The Durban agreement to a second commitment period of the Kyoto Protocol represents the continued leadership and commitment of developed countries to meet legally binding emission reduction commitments. It also provides the essential foundation of confidence for the new push towards a universal, legal climate agreement in the near future.
I regret that Canada has announced it will withdraw and am surprised over its timing. Whether or not Canada is a Party to the Kyoto Protocol, it has a legal obligation under the Convention to reduce its emissions, and a moral obligation to itself and future generations to lead in the global effort. Industrialized countries whose emissions have risen significantly since 1990, as is the case for Canada, remain in a weaker position to call on developing countries to limit their emissions.
I call on all developed countries to meet their responsibilities under the Climate Change Convention and its Kyoto Protocol, to raise their ambition to cut emissions and to provide the agreed adequate support to developing countries to build their own clean energy futures and adapt to climate change impacts they are already experiencing.
==================================================
UPDATE: There’s some ambiguity here in the announcement, upon further reading it could be interpreted that they are saying this:
“I see you withdraw from Kyoto but you are still legally bound to reduce emissions UNDER THE 1992 ‘VOLUNTARY’ RIO UN FRAMEWORK CONVENTION ON CLIMATE CHANGE (UNFCCC)”.
So maybe it isn’t Kyoto they’re saying they can’t leave, but its parent treaty, Rio’s UNFCCC, which is the model for this Spring’s upcoming UNCSD ’12.
But that’s voluntary too, so how can a “voluntary” agreement be legally binding?
From Torgeir Hansson on December 13, 2011 at 12:38 pm:
These are not the communists you are looking for. They are merely Progressive Liberals demanding social justice through government-supported jobs, housing, food, clothing, and medical services, paid for by equitable and just wealth redistribution.
–This message provided by Obama/Biden 2012, “Continuing to Build a Stronger Amerika”
Torgeir Hansson;
It’s cheap insurance, and please don’t harass me with any communist conspiracies. They are so so very old.>>>
Cheap?
Do you have any idea how many billions per year it costs the free world to fund them?
They’ve stated plainly that CAGW is no longer about climate, it is about wealth re-distribution, but they aren’t communists?
They’ve stopped how many wars so far since they came into existance? (I’ll help you with that one, itz the key just to the right of the “9” on your main keyboard, if you are using the number pad it is dead centre right at the bottom).
How many genocides have they prevented? ooooops! SAME ANSWER!
How many times have they issued a binding resolution telling warring parties to cease and desist, and the warring parties have listened? ooooops! SAME ANSWER AGAIN!
The UN “talks” while millions die in Rwanda, in Bosnia, in Darfur. They “talk” while Iran builds nukes and sends teenage girls to death for talking to a boy. They talk while North Korea starves itz own people to death. They talk while China eradicates centuries old communities.
If itz cheap you want, then that’s what the UN is giving you. Cheap talk.
But they charge you a few billion a year for it.
“…I regret that Canada has announced it will withdraw and am surprised over its timing. Whether or not Canada is a Party to the Kyoto Protocol, it has a legal obligation under the Convention to reduce its emissions…”
Dear UNFCCC Chief,
Thank you for reminding us. We withdraw from that as well.
Yours, etc
Canada.
Jay Davis:
Who was it who said:
“If you want peace, don’t talk to your friends. Talk to your enemies.” That is the entire principle behind the UN. Sit down, take your meds if you need to, and ponder that.
And you mentioned five little countries, out of 200, that you consider to be the ones in charge at the UN at this juncture. I will let you in on a secret: the superpowers, such as they are, are in charge of the UN: the U.S., Russia, China, England, and France. Those are the permanent members of the Security Council. Here are the non-permanent members:
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Germany
Portugal
Brazil
India
South Africa
Colombia
Lebanon
Gabon
Nigeria
See a lot of communists, Jay? A lot of Islamic fundamentalists?
The first campaign to get the US out of the UN was run by the John Birch Society in 1959.
Are you a member of the John Birch Society, Jay?
when katla volcano in iceland erupts are they going to slap a $4,200,000,000,000,100 bill for green house gas emissions on iceland
@Torgeir Hansson 10:49 am; Kursk was the biggest tank battle in history, it happened 280 miles south of Moscow near the city of Kursk in the then Soviet Union in july and august 1943 between Russian and German forces, what has it to do with U.S. operations of the same period?
@ur momisugly Torgeir Hansson says:
December 13, 2011 at 10:52 am
……………….. I for my part am not too hard on the enviros. They have a right to their opinions, and to try to build action around them.
==================================================================
Yes, the Envirobots have a right to their opinions. But they do not have a right to force them on others.
It is notewirthy when a amoral organization speaks of moral obligations.
Ooooooh! The toothless old incompetants at the United Nothing-doers say they won’t let Canada get away with binning the Kyoto line of credit?
Seriously; so what? I’ll bet Canadian’s everywhere are cacking their trolleys about it (but only if they’re laughing too hard).
Based on historical precendent, just what are the United Nothingdoers actually going to do about Canada’s sudden implementation of common sense aside from huffing and puffing and blowing more hot air into the atmosphere? Probably the same nothing the United Nothing-doers actually do when a third world dictator starts mowing down the nieghbours.
Maybe they’ll write a sternly worded letter to the management, maybe they’ll issue a piece of printed toilet paper (UN Condemnation) or maybe they’ll send the Maldives rapid reaction farce into the den of the evil Canadian tar sands industry in Alberta wearing sky blue crap hats on a ‘peace enforcement’ mission? (and those grandstanding morons will in all probability take their bat and ball and go straight home once they find out how Gullible Warming has impacted SCUBA tourism in Alberta).
If I were in charge, I’d stop paying Canada’s annual donation to the United Nothing-doers tomorrow in the face of their arrogant attitude, citing the United Nothing-doer’s abject failure in every single venture* they undertake as proof of a very poor return on investment.
*I suspect the United Nothing-doers keeps reinventing itself periodically as a save the children, save the culture, save the reffo’s rights, save the planet etc agency in order to try and find something they don’t cock up completely and then hope we all forget that their raison d’etra is to save the world from war; and in that capacity they are demonstrably utterly useless.
Just as well that by the time the sky blue crap hats had finally arrived in Dili to go souvenir shopping, the InterFET peace enforcement mission had already sorted the sh!t fight out.
Instead of making futile petitions to MPs about carbon (dioxide) taxes, we should have been petitioning them to get us the bloody hell out of the United Nothing-doers all along; which would probably be just as futile with the feeble insipid excuse for leadership the western world (outside Canada) suffers from currently.
If the Third World does not wants to wait to have cheap energy, Canada will be glad to sell them Tar Sand Premium at a competitive price.
It is not the checking out or the leaving that the UN is concerned about, it is the payments they don’t want to miss.
Dear Canada, I didn’t run to you to evade the draft during Nam but I will run to you to help defend against the invasion of the UNFCCC enforcement force.
Regards
Jerry
From Torgeir Hansson on December 13, 2011 at 12:51 pm:
So you agree it’s pretty much worthless, but argue it should be retained despite the multiple costs due to the Precautionary Principle? Very interesting…
Mr Hansson – yes, you could argue that Versailles begot Hitler, but a lot went on in between, and of course by 1938 Germany (indeed, most of Europe) was economically well ahead of the US in terms of climbing out of the 1930s hole.
The proximate cause of WWII was the Allies – in particular, the French – failing to enforce the terms of Versailles, stopping the Germans when it would have been trivial to do so – notably with Czechoslovakia and the Rhineland. War is bad, except when the alternative is worse.
The present UN has been taken over, more or less, by blocs of enrichez-vous kleptocracies doing their best to pick the pockets of the West. China’s corrupt as hell but you have to admire their ability to keep their eye on the ball, push their own economic advancement in Africa and elsewhere while they keep the Third World ducks pecking everyone else.
The world had a dream, the United Nations would end war and install eternal peace, the dream and reality is that you now must send more money, or we will bombard you with relentless emails threatening ever increasing pressure, exclusions, back payments, membership dues, to fund our fat cats and face increased wailing from those who thought they “might” get something for nothing.
Invasion, fight, nah! remember all those “UN Forces” that sat clutching blue helmets in their bunkers away from those they didn’t protect, while atrocities were committed against the unprotected……yes the send more money emails, with dire threats and imagination, scary predictions, threats of exclusion from the club, but they won’t put their heads above the parapet till someone else pays and actually fights instead – send the money and we will allow you to keep dreaming.
There is a great deal of evidence that it is capitalism that has prevented wars, and not the existence of the UN.
Gosh, this affords me an opportunity to practice my new translation skills, just recently acquired from the website YouCanLearnDowntownJive.com.
Canada to the UN: Sucka, I ain’t yo’ b*tch!
Your multilingual friend, Grampa
Torgeir Hansson says:
December 13, 2011 at 10:52 am
And I don’t think you can argue that the West shouldn’t try to be a little helpful in the old colonies. We left a bit of a mess in many places. (Never mind the climate nonsense, I’m thinking about things like getting the kids vaccinated and educated and so on.)
Last I checked, Canada IS one of the old colonies.
Jean Chretien, the PM who signed the accord in 1997, piped up with this nugget today in a fundraiser:
“Unless we are bold. Unless we seize the moment. Everything we built will start being chipped away,” Mr. Chrétien wrote in a fundraising email circulated on Tuesday. “The Conservatives already ended gun control and Kyoto. Next may be a woman’s right to choose, or gay marriage. Then might come capital punishment. And one by one, the values we cherish as Canadians will be gone.”
He forgot to mention torturing kittens.
I’m not taking sides here but if Canada agreed to do something in 1992 then it should do it. If they never agred to do anything then fine, they are free of obligation
This is how Taiwan sees it or at least some Taiwanese Animators.
Our old Prime Minister, the Right Honourable Pierre Elliott Trudeau had the proper response for this to the UnfCCCP…. fuddle duddle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuddle_duddle
@Torgeir Hansson says:
December 13, 2011 at 12:51 pm
Hate to break it to you, but deadly combat (warfare) on large and small scales is a necessary ingredient for biological and cultural evolution. Without it, cultures and ecosystems become stagnant and collapse. Look around; even plants and insects engage in intra, and inter, species deadly conflict for the purpose of seeing to it that their specific dna and social structure survive and prosper. To assume that humanity is somehow exempt from the laws of natural selection is foolish and arrogant.
Kitefreak says:
December 13, 2011 at 1:04 pm
“Getting out of the UN, EU, IMF, World Bank, WTO, WHO, etc. subscriptions would probably save any nation quite a whack on their annual budget. Who are all these people anyway? I don’t remember voting for them to run my country and my life, down to telling me what kind of light bulb I can have in my living room (EU resident).”
It would and we didn’t!! Take the EU Lisbon Treaty for example – there are over 500 million people in the EU and only the politicians got to vote on it, on what is in effect a political gravy train, oh except for Ireland of course, where because of its constitution the people were given a referendum and guess what – they voted NO! That should have been the end of the Lisbon Treaty but no, that’s not how the EU works, the people of Ireland were made to vote again after much propaganda, promises and threats.
The EU has no real democratic legitimacy – our politicians have betrayed us.
So friends on this forum please BEWARE. Exhausted delegates agreeing to last minute vaguely worded treaties is exactly the same methodology the EU has used so successfully and always, always, the treaties have been interpreted very much in the EU favour at the expense of the national sovereignty of its members. And one last thing try typing in the name of your local council along with Agenda 21 – you may be surprised at just how much the UN has already imposed on local planning!! (also an EU resident).
It’s not a war against the climate change. Here, the fighting for money and employment in the green industry is going on.