Open Thread Holiday Weekend

Since this is a holiday weekend, and after the bombshell Spencer and Braswell revelation today, there’s not much else besides watching tropical storm Lee and Hurricane Katia this weekend.

I have several things to do in the home improvement realm that have been neglected while I work on WUWT and other projects, and I need to step away for a bit. I may update WUWT if something happens related to tropical weather, and guest authors are welcome to post. But I don’t plan to spend much time online this weekend.

Have a nice holiday weekend, see you all back here Tuesday.


newest oldest most voted
Notify of

August signs
MIKE Ritchie, watching the severe weather conditions on America’s Eastern seaboard, tells us: “Hurricane Irene has been downgraded to a Scottish summer.”


August signs
MIKE Ritchie, watching the severe weather conditions on America’s Eastern seaboard, tells us: “Hurricane Irene has been downgraded to a Scottish summer.”


Can anybody recommend scientific literature on Younger Dryas? No CAGW trash, please. Thank you, Taras.

Mike Mangan

Solyndra!! Bring it up every chance you get. It’s the new Enron!!

Jim Cole

Interesting discussion on the matter of Willis E’s question: “Was Irene, in fact, a hurricane?”
Two points to consider, one of which was made in the discussion of Willis. Damage was largely rain-related, not wind-related (max windspeeds were below Hurricane threshholds). Somebody (PDR?)pointed out that some damage related to tree-fall could be due to the absence of major windstorms in the last 6 years or so. More large aging trees, more trees susceptible to storm damage.
Here’s another angle. CO2 has been elevated (they all say) and CO2 promotes vegetation growth.
How much extra leaf growth has occurred as a result of elevated atmospheric CO2 content? How has that exceptional leaf growth contributed to the wind-cross-section of trees?
Just saying, but it seem reasonable that aging trees with lots of extra-large leaves might be susceptible to toppling in mediocre windstorms.
And all of the power loss in the eastern states was due to trees falling on power llines. Hmmmmm

Anthony Scalzi

Giant Chunk of Greenland Ice Set to Break Away
“An ice shelf is poised to break off from a Greenland glacier and float out to sea as an island twice the size of Manhattan, scientists say.
“I don’t know exactly when,” Jason Box, a climatologist with Ohio State Unversity’s Byrd Polar Research Center, told OurAmazingPlanet. “I wouldn’t be surprised if it happened today — or if it happened next summer.”
Just a year ago, in August 2010, the same glacier produced an even larger iceberg — a mass of ice four times the size of Manhattan, the largest in recorded Greenland history — yet researchers warn that the next spectacular break could have more-dire consequences.
Box said it’s not clear when the 62-square-mile (160 square kilometers) ice shelf, which is dangling from Greenland’s Petermann Glacier, will detach from the mainland. “I think it’s more likely to occur during periods of melt, and that’s coming to an end, so I’m losing confidence it’s going to break this year,” Box said.”

Ken Smith

I have posted to YouTube the video of the recent Australian debate on the question “Do We Really Need a Carbon Tax?”

My own take is that the side in favor didn’t really engage the issues. Ian Plimer is the only panelist who really addressed scientific issues, and was (as I would expect) dismissed out of hand with no substantive response by the opponent who followed. Lord Lawson did a respectable job on the negative side, although I thought he blundered early on by saying that anyone who believes CO2 is “pollution” should not be listened to. In some idealistic sense this could be true, but the assertion does seem to negate the possibility of dialogue or debate in the first place.
In any case, I thought it was a worthwhile debate. I was rather disgusted by the description given on the ABC _Big Ideas_ web page, which among other outrages called Plimer a “climate-denying geologist.” Here’s their description:
Do We Really Need a Carbon Tax?
23 Aug 2011, 11:00
Claiming that places like the ABC were not giving equal time to those who dissent from the prevailing science around the climate change debate, the conservative think tank The Institute of Public Affairs decided to host their own event in partnership with The Spectator Australia. The question they posed was straightforward and simple: “Do we really need a Carbon Tax?”
The local participants included a climate change researcher, a climate-denying geologist, plus former party leaders of both Liberal and a Labor. But, the star of the show was a British Lord – not Monckton, but former Thatcher-era Energy Minister, Nigel Lawson – who happens to be a real member of the House of Lords. (He is also father of celebrity cook, Nigela Lawson.)
Lord Lawson has spent the past decade warning of the perils of decarbonising the economy, arguing that government policies to replace relatively cheap carbon-based energy with substantially more expensive renewable energy amount to economic illiteracy of the worst order.
Chairing the debate was conservative commentator Tom Switzer.
Speakers For:
John Hewson is the former leader of the Liberal Party and an economic and financial expert with experience in academia, business, government and the financial system. His current position is chairman of insurance broking firm General Security Australia.
Benjamin McNeil is a senior fellow at the Climate Change Research Centre at the University of New South Wales.
Mark Latham is a Spectator Australia columnist and former federal Labor leader.
Speakers Against:
Lord Nigel Lawson is a former Thatcher-era Energy Minister and British Conservative chancellor. He is author of “An Appeal to Reason: A Cool Look at Global Warming”.
Ian Plimer is a geologist at University of Adelaide and author of “Heaven & Earth”.
Gary Johns is associate professor at the Australian Catholic University and former federal Labor minister.
Tom Switzer is a research associate at the United States Studies Centre at the University of Sydney where he teaches undergraduate courses in American politics and Australian history. He is also editor of The Spectator Australia, published in London.


Happy Father’s Day to all fathers celebrating tomorrow (Sunday 4th).
Applicable in Australia, don’t know if anywhere else though.

Jim Cole says:September 2, 2011 at 5:32 pm
Just saying, but it seem reasonable that aging trees with lots of extra-large leaves might be susceptible to toppling in mediocre windstorms.

In my area, I think the fact that the utility company (PSNH) mostly stopped doing right-of-way tree maintenance several years ago is more significant. Since the PUC won’t penalize them for outages, it’s cheaper for them to skip expensive maintenance.

David Walton

The Giants still suck, dagnabit!
Is it global warming?

I live in a country that has NOT experienced any man made climate change, How is it that we effect other countrys climates?

What about the Justice Department raids on guitar maker Gibson? I love the tone of a Gibson Thunderbird. Law was amended right before Obama comes into office…. DOJ has raided Gibson twice…. And they won’t tell Gibson what it is they are doing wrong!! We’ve got this administration criminalizing business and these kindergarten children are scratching heads wondering why $2 Trillion is sitting on the sidelines… Not counting the trillions pulled out of the market after Obama was nominated… and unemployment stays at 9%.

Jon-Anders Grannes

Mo Money Mo Problems
The gatekeeper that just resigned. Seamingly with little or noo scientific justification.
Who is paying him and who is standing behind him?

xion III

This here’s my new anti-AGW gun.
Click-pic trigger.
30 rounds anti-scaremongering
Stop action
Firing in 3,2,1

I took off my training wheels and started a climate science thread over on a Microsoft web site if anyone wants some weekend amusement see here:

Roger Knights

“It is easier to find a score of men wise enough to discover the truth than to find one intrepid enough, in the face of opposition, to stand up for it.”
—A. Hodge

charles nelson

Dear Watts Up With That people,
I would like to invite everyone to contribute to the ‘list’ I am about to initiate.
In my reading I have come across many statements about and descriptions of Significant Climatic Events. I have found these in jouranls, autobiographies, diaries, letters and official communications. Taken in isolation they are merely interesting bits of historical detail but…with the aid of a bit of geographical software, several hundred or better still, several thousand of these be used to create a useful picture of climate variation. The period that interests me is from the end of the dark ages to the end of the 19th Century. (After that period newspapers and media provide sufficient information.)
The rules are simple.
1. Significant events only. Cold, warm, snow, heatwaves, droughts, floods and storms.
2. Identified author, date and location.
3. Publisher.
Fredreich Nietzsche. Basle, Switzerland, february 1874.
“We are having such fine warm days with plenty of sunshine and even deep coloured sunsets already.. *We have only had one day’s snow the whole winter*.
Published by The Soho Book Company.
Think of what we could do with several thousand of these!
Obviously there are limitations, vast areas of the world will not be covered but I’d be damned surprised if we couldn’t come up with a fairly comprehensive picture of European Weather over that period. Better than tree rings anyway.
I thank you for your interest.


The Solar Wind bz has tilted primarily north, and the gcr’s are once again climbing back up.
The SORCE spacecraft is showing some mighty strange readings. So much so, that the data and instrument are scheduled for a hard look Sept. 26. Maybe it got whacked out there, and the thing has gone haywire. Send up the replacement.

Roy UK

charles nelson says:
September 2, 2011 at 11:43 pm …
Charles, you did not direct us to a website or a place where contributions could be submitted.

charles nelson

Dear Roy,
Not being internet savvy(me I mean) what do you think would be the best way to do this?
I hear what you’re saying though!

John Marshall

It is Labour Day on Monday in the US (English spelling) and the way Obama is going there will soon be no labour working to celebrate the holiday. (Apart from EPA employees)

D. King

Ken Smith says:
September 2, 2011 at 6:08 pm
Watched all four. Thanks Ken.

James Evans

I have some good news. I’m pretty sure that I’ve solved the whole global warming thing.
I’ve been looking at a few hockey stick graphs recently, and I noticed something about them. The point where the handle of the stick joins the blade is about at the time that the thermometer record begins.
In other words, temperatures started shooting up when we began sticking thermometers all over the place. Don’t you get it? It’s the thermometers! They’re causing the warming! I’m pretty sure that if we destroy all the thermometers, this global warming thing will just go away.

Some interesting thoughts from Martin Durkin.
THE REAL GLOBAL WARMING CONSENSUS (or ‘Why Intellectuals Hate Capitalism’)

The market is based on merit. Success is determined by how highly people value what you have to sell. The intellectuals, whose talents are not highly valued, yearn for a society based on status. This is why the Green intelligentsia fetishise hierarchical pre-capitalist society. This kind of society, they assert, was more ‘natural’ and ‘ordered’ and ‘harmonious’.
Today, the bulk of intellectuals in the ‘New Class’ work directly or indirectly for the State. They are paid out of taxes levied on the productive economy. In other words, the plumbers (and bricklayers and lorry drivers and estate agents) are forced to pay for them. No wonder the plumbers do not turn up at Green demonstrations to demand higher taxes and more state control.


Ed Mertin [September 2, 2011 at 9:27 pm] says:
“What about the Justice Department raids on guitar maker Gibson?”

Pretty amazing isn’t it? Obama and his Department of InJustice is trying to kill another American company. They are doing this under the guise of some obscure Indian ‘law’ (which even India care less about) concerning use of certain wood *after* they sell and export it overseas to companies like Gibson and Martin (and …)!
Remember who was the big bad boogeyman during the last administration? Yes, Ashcroft, who was busy gunning for terrorists, not guitar makers. Well, we can’t have any of that, can we? No, we need hope and change. We need Eric Holder, the worst Attorney General ever, who sees nothing wrong with Black Panther intimidation at polling stations and who thinks American companies are corrupt and illegal. Congratulations to any dummies here who fell for this idiocy and voted for President Dumbo. You got real change, the systematic destruction of your own country. Thanks, geniuses.
Anyway, lots of discussion threads at FreeRepublic with links to original source articles …
Federal agents search Gibson Guitar factory in Memphis
Feds Raid Gibson Guitar
Eco-zealous feds target Gibson guitars, antique piano sellers; Updated: Gibson explains
Gibson Guitar Corp. Responds to Federal Raid (Claims DOJ wants wood finished in India)
CEO of Gibson Guitar a Republican donor; Democrat competitor uses same wood
Gibson Competitor is Dem Donor;Uses Same Wood, ExperiencedNo Federal Raids
Gibson Guitar CEO: We’re Under Attack By Obama Administration
If Gibson Is Not Safe, Nobody Is
Gibson Guitar Corp. Responds to Federal Raid
Dana with Gibson CEO – Henry Juszkiewicz (Audio)
Michelle Obama Gives French First Lady a Gibson Guitar (flashback to 2009)
DOJ Advises Gibson Guitar to Export Labor to Madagascar
Gibson CEO: Obama Administration Told Us Our Problems Would Go Away If We Used Madagascar Labor…..
Gibson CEO: Feds Demanded Foreign Labor
DOJ Advises Gibson Guitar to Export Labor to Madagascar
Why Are The Feds Gunning For Gibson? And Is This Any Way To Stimulate The Economy?
Gibson Guitars Strung Up by Feds
Gibson: Feds Want Guitar Woodwork Done by Foreign Labor


It has been a fascinating few weeks watching the ups and downs of the Arctic ice.
I confess I’ve been doing this while watching the ups of the English Cricket team and the downs of the Indian one, but all of that might change starting this weekend with the one day matches.
From the NOAA drifting North Pole camera it would seem that the new freeze season has set in. The melt ponds seem to be freezing over:
And the temperatures recorded by the Polar Area Weather Station ( PAWS ) Buoy
Buoy ID 420120 seem to be consistently negative now:
Looking at Dr Ryan Maue’s 2 metre temperature animations also hints at a start to the freeze up:
It will be interesting to see how this will all be spun over the next few weeks. An obvious death spiral has not happened, that is a fact. We might see, by a small amount, a new low in ice extent, though that will be touch and go over the next few weeks. A lot of slush type ice (shuga and grease ice) has been reported this year; it will be interesting to see if this accelerates ice growth in the new season.
As I’ve had time to follow the Arctic ice this summer, it has been a revelation to me, just how much the extent is weather driven. It has got me wondering just how much of the Arctic ice is really dependent on the climate and how much is at the mercy of unpredictable weather events?
As for Arctic ice volume, well that’s for the modellers to argue over.
Odd how no one from the AGW crowd seems to be able to explain why the Antarctic ice is not melting away, or is the physics too difficult and the data not matching the models?

Blade responds to: (September 3, 2011 at 4:28 am) “What about the Justice Department raids on guitar maker Gibson?”
But that’s not the America, Land of the Free, you’re talking about, Blade?

Steve C

Charles Nelson – Presumably you have already picked up “A Chronological Listing of Early Weather Events” (pdf). Maybe you should get together with its author to produce an even bigger collection … or perhaps specialise in events after 1900 (where that one stops). But that pdf by itself casts a very harsh and unforgiving light on any claim that there is anything “unusual” or “unprecedented” in current conditions.

Laurie Bowen

I would like to contribute the work of a person that I never forgot . . . Even though he called himself an Astrology, he based his work on Astronomy and indirectly physics . . . He was one of the first cyclical theorist that I ever came across in the flesh . . .
I would like to contribute his paper on procession . . . and how he explains it in “pictures” so that there is a complete different perspective . . .
“from the big picture perspective” so to speak. . .
I throw it out there, for both the open minded and the skeptics alike . . . but, I believe, he was a man far ahead of the “curves”!
Here are two links . . . I would attribute to him . . .
Simplified Astronomy for Astrologers
Astronomical Cycles
And others . . .
I hope you find it worth discussing . . . and I would look forward to know what other think about it . . .


Come over to
– Pierre has a great video of Fred Singer and Claes Johnson talking in Belgium.

Charles Nelson that sounds like a fantastic idea. I don’t know what you’re thinking of but I’m imagining a public database that lets users submit and edit weather events, rate them for severity, provide links to resources, etc. I’d be willing to buy a domain and host such a site, although I have a lot of hobbies that take up my limited spare time.. If there are any other PHP/MySQL type people on here that would like to collaborate please e-mail me joshedlund [at] gmail [dot] com….


James Evans says:
September 3, 2011 at 3:06 am
“In other words, temperatures started shooting up when we began sticking thermometers all over the place. Don’t you get it? It’s the thermometers! They’re causing the warming! I’m pretty sure that if we destroy all the thermometers, this global warming thing will just go away.”
Is that a lame attempt at deriding skepticism? Well, in case you don’t know, GISTEMP made a huge jump in the nineties by getting rid of about 4,500 thermometers; they deleted the cooler ones.

Also, in Europe there are temperature stations reporting for 200 years and more so I must call your hypothesis debunked.

Open thread? OK: click


Very good (and funny) but I think “Private Jet,” “My”, and “Wealthy” should have been in there. Oh… and where’s “Bush?”

Laurie Bowen
Amino Acids in Meteorites

Crazy Pete’s Enviro Friendly Galleria

Laurie Bowen

Team Plots ‘Fake Volcano’ to Cool Planet
Giant hose will pump particles into stratosphere

James Evans

DirkH says:
“Is that a lame attempt at deriding skepticism?”
No. Actually it’s a lame attempt at deriding the consensus. You don’t find it odd that, according to the consensus position, temperatures started to go up just as we started to measure them?
Take a look at the hockey stick graphs – there are a few on Wikipedia.

P Walker

Someone should compose a petition to Obama demanding that he get off the AGW bandwagon :

Smokey, where do you get them from. +1.
When’s the next ‘Bama Bingo game?

Kelvin Vaughan

It’s the Sun!
August 2011 in the UK
Only 76% of average sunshine. AverageUK maximum temperatures were 0.8C below normal.


Pipeline protest silliness.
“Recent actions, both on the ground and the web, show the desperation and lack of logic of those protesting against the Keystone XL pipeline.”:


Icebreaker Oden retained in Sweden for next Winter – and not available for cooperation with USA -because of harsh winters.
Copy of Swedish Government letter sent to Mrs. Secretary Clinton in link:


@ AlexS
Great story.


James Evans says:
September 3, 2011 at 1:02 pm
“DirkH says:
“Is that a lame attempt at deriding skepticism?”
No. Actually it’s a lame attempt at deriding the consensus. You don’t find it odd that, according to the consensus position, temperatures started to go up just as we started to measure them?”
My apologies. But as I said, that’s not true. Here’s 300 years of temperature records from Berlin.
We are now where we were in 1800. (for this particular station)

O the Humanity! clicky