Solar warming and ocean equilibrium, Part 3: Solanki and Schuessler respond

PhotobucketGuest post by Alec Rawls

Solar physicist Sami Solanki and his colleagues at Germany’s Max Planck Institute for Solar System Research helped pioneer the use of cosmogenic isotopes from ice cores to create a proxy record for solar activity going back hundreds and thousands of years. Together with a group led by Ilya Usoskin at University of Oulu in Finland, Solanki describes “grand maximum” levels of solar activity from 1920 to 2000, with the sun being especially active since the 1940’s.

Comparing this solar record to temperature, these scientists find a strong correlation between solar activity and temperature persisting until quite recently. For example, over the period of the instrumental temperature record, a 2004 paper by Solanki and Krivova finds that the correlation is quite close, “however”:

However, it is also clear that since about 1980, while the total solar radiation, its ultraviolet component, and the cosmic ray intensity all exhibit the 11-year solar periodicity, there has otherwise been no significant increase in their values. In contrast, the Earth has warmed up considerably within this time period. This means that the Sun is not the cause of the present global warming.

But does this conclusion follow? Their own evidence says that until 1980 the dominant driver of climate was solar activity (and their longer-term temperature-proxy comparisons say the same thing). So how can they assert that two decades of the highest solar activity on record can’t be the cause of concurrent warming?

I suggested to Solanki and his colleagues that they must be implicitly assuming that by 1980 ocean temperatures had already equilibrated to whatever forcing effect the high level of solar activity was having. Otherwise warming would continue until equilibrium had been reached. Yet equilibration is never mentioned in any of their analyses.

Many thanks to Sami Solani and Manfred Schuessler for their important reply, finally making the implicit explicit. Here is the main part of their answer:

Dear Mr. Rawls,

You have raised an interesting question. Correlations between solar activity indices and climate assume that there is a constant lag between solar and climate variability (this is implicit in the nature of correlations). In some cases authors even implicitely or explicitely assume that this lag is zero, i.e. that the relationship is instantaneous. If we consider the period of time up to ca. 1970, then this lag lies roughly between 0 and 12 years (e.g., Solanki and Krivova 2003). Newer reconstructions, such as that of Krivova et al. (2007) tend to favour the lower lag. If we consider the period since 1970 alone, then the solar irradiance hasn’t shown an increasing trend, but rather a decreasing one, in contrast to global temperature, which has increased substantially. If this increase is due to the hypothetical influence of the oceans, as you suggest, then of course these short lag times would not be realistic. This, however, would mean that the relatively good correlation between solar and climate variability prior to 1970 would also have to be discarded as due to chance and would cease to be of relevance. Lags cannot be changed at will, certainly not without a good physical reason, i.e. one based on computations, that at least approximately model the Earth system’s behaviour.

To clarify, I did not quite suggest that post-1970 warming might be due to the influence of the oceans. I suggested that it could be due to the sun. The hypothesis isn’t that the oceans were giving up stored heat content but that they were continuing to absorb solar-driven heat. (Under the GCR-cloud theory, high solar wind blows the clouds away, increasing the amount of solar shortwave that pours into the oceans.)

Since Solanki and Schuessler see this slow-ocean-equilibration story as incompatible with short correlation lags, they are clearly identifying short lags with rapid equilibration. The question is whether this identification makes sense. If the equilibration process is not rapid, does it really mean that the short correlation lag between solar activity and temperature that these folks discovered must be mere chance? A simple counter-example shows the answer to be no.

Day vs. season

If you map the diurnal correlation between the strength of the sun’s rays on your back porch and temperature in the shade, you will find that the maximum correlation occurs with only a few hours lag. At noon, sun strength is no longer increasing, while the rate of temperature increase is near its maximum, with temperatures continuing to rise until sometime mid-afternoon.

So you find this very strong and rapid correlation between sunlight and backyard temperature. You’ve been plotting it for a few months, and now it’s June. There is no significant change day by day in the strength of the sun’s rays, or their duration, yet somehow peak backyard temperatures keep going up. The end of June is hotter than the beginning of June. Do you say that this can’t be explained by the sun because solar forcing has not been rising and you know that the temperature response to the sun is only a few hours?

This is exactly what Solanki et al. are doing. Instead of day vs. season they are finding temperature signals within the solar cycle and from one solar cycle to the next and assuming that these same response times apply to longer term changes in solar activity. But climate systems don’t just respond on one time scale.

This is what came out of the previous post, where Mike Lockwood cited the rapid response time that was estimated by Stephen Schwartz on the assumption that the planet can be represented by the simplest possible energy balance model with only one heat sink. Make the model one step more realistic by giving it two heat sinks, so that the sun and the atmosphere do not warm the entire ocean at once, but warm an upper layer which in turn, over time, transfers heat to a deeper ocean layer, and everything changes. Time to equilibrium from a step-up in forcing could be centuries, but as Daniel Kirk-Davidoff’s analysis of the two heat-sink model shows, a correlation study that does not span several times the period of any long term fluctuation in forcing will only pick up the relatively rapid response time of the upper ocean layer, revealing next to nothing about time-to-equilibrium for the full climate system.

The one thing we can say from the observed rapid temperature response to short term fluctuations in solar activity is that solar activity clearly does drive temperature. Add that the sun does not warm the ocean all at once—that the deeper ocean is warmed over time by the upper ocean as the two heat-sink model describes—and we can expect that the demonstrated warming effect of solar activity will cause long-period deeper ocean warming when there is a longer period rise in solar activity.

That is, the short time-lag correlation actually implies that longer period responses should also be taking place, once the most obvious steps to model realism are incorporated. Thus no, the finding of a short correlation lag does not contradict a solar explanation for late 20th century warming but supports it, just as the suns’ warming of the day supports a solar explanation for seasonal change.

This is why it is so important that widespread but unstated assumptions of rapid equilibration be made explicit. The assumption does not stand up to scrutiny, yet it has been allowed to escape scrutiny even as it does the heavy lifting in many scientists’ dismissal of a solar explanation for late 20th century warming. So again, many thanks to Doctors Solanki and Schuessler for making this assumption explicit.

GCM equilibration time

Here is the rest of the Solanki-Schuessler response:

You can rightly argue that a simple linear analysis, such as that carried out by Solanki and Krivova 2003, does not fully reflect the complex behaviour of the Earth system. Indeed, such an analysis does not replace introducing the solar irradiance record into a GCM (General Circulation Model), which includes the coupling between the oceans and the atmosphere, and computing the influence of the Sun’s behaviour. Such studies have not, to our knowledge, reached conclusions that differ significantly from those reached by the simple correlation analysis. If anything, they tend to indicate that the influence of the Sun is even smaller than the correlation studies suggest. The attached review paper gives a good and up-to-date overview of the state of research on Sun-climate relations. Figs. 27 and 28 (pp. 36 and 37) of this paper show that GCM models support the assumption of a short time lag, i.e., quasi-instantaneous reaction of the global temperatures on changes in forcing (as is well known to be the case for major volcanic eruptions, for instance). We think that this is due to the fact that only the mixed layer of the oceans is involved in climate variations due to short-term (decadal to centennial) variations of the forcing, so that the global equilibrium time of the oceans is irrelevant – but you may want to contact a climatologist if you wish to obtain more detailed information.

We hope to have been of help.

Sincerely yours,

Sami Solanki and Manfred Schuessler

What I have been able to glean about equilibration time in the IPCC GCMs is rather different from what Solanki and Schuessler assert. This came up in Part 2, where Schwartz’ short estimated time constant implied a low climate sensitivity, prompting a vigorous response from Gavin Schmidt and other “consensus” GCM compilers. Foster, Schmidt et al. said that in contrast to Schwartz’ 4-6 year time constant, the AR4 model “takes a number of decades to equilibrate after a change in external forcing.”

In a later RealClimate post, Schmidt suggests that:

Oceans have such a large heat capacity that it takes decades to hundreds of years for them to equilibrate to a new forcing.

The review paper that Solanki and Schuessler cite is Solar Influences on Climate, by Gray et al. 2010. S&S cite Gray’s Figures 27 and 28 as support for quasi-instantaneous temperature adjustment in response to a change in forcing, but it is hard to see the connection. The figures are from AR4 and just show the amount of recent warming that is attributed to CO2 in the AR4 models. That would be all of it, post 1955:

Photobucket

Figure 27 [Gray]. Global mean temperature anomalies, as observed (black line) and as modelled by thirteen climate models when the simulations include (a) both anthropogenic and natural forcings and (b) natural forcings only. The multi-model ensemble mean is shown in grey, and individual simulations are shown in colour, with curves of the same colour indicating different ensemble members for the same model.

Are S&S interpreting Figure 27a as showing a fit between forcings and temperature (in which case the close fit to observed temperatures would indeed indicate a rapid response to forcing)? But this isn’t what the graph shows at all. It compares observed temperatures to the temperatures that the AR4 model predicts in response to 20th century forcings. Equilibration speed (or lapse time) is one of the variables that modelers tweak to achieve a fit between predicted and actual temperatures.

It is not surprising that modelers manage to achieve a reasonably close fit over their calibration period (the 20th century). Every detail of their very complex model is tailored to achieve this. They presumably could achieve this level of fit in many ways. The fact that they do achieve it doesn’t say anything about how they achieve it. The equilibration speed could be anything.

Of course we do know a few fun facts about how the AR4 models are fit to the data. In particular, we know that the IPCC engages in blatant question begging by including only one solar variable in its AR4 models: Total Solar Irradiance, which is parameterized by the IPCC as having 1/14 the warming effect of CO2 (0.12 vs 1.66 W/m2).

Gray’s Figure 27 makes the impact of this assumption graphic. When total solar effects are fixed on the input side of the model to have 1/14th the warming power of CO2, the model output “shows” CO2 to be the dominant climate driver. It’s called “garbage in, garbage out.”

Data vs. assumption

The question is why Solanki and Schuessler are satisfied with the IPCC’s TSI-only characterization of solar effects when their own data screams out so strongly against it. They look at how little solar effect on climate is built into the AR4 model and say:

If anything [these models] tend to indicate that the influence of the Sun is even smaller than the correlation studies suggest.

The discrepancy between their correlation studies and the AR4 model can be seen in the glaring difference between 1955-1980 in Figure 27 above and in Figure 2b from Solanki and Krivova:

Photobucket

The black line is instrumental temperature. Dotted lines are inverted GCR (reconstructed, and as measured in Climax Colorado since 1953). Close correlation between solar activity and temperature continues to 1980.

Henrik Svensmark finds a still longer correlation. After controlling for PDO, he finds that the short term correlation between solar activity and temperature continues to the present day:

Photobucket

FIG. 2 [Svensmark]: … The upper panel shows observations of temperatures (blue) and cosmic rays (red). The lower panel shows the match achieved by removing El Nino, the North Atlantic Oscillation, volcanic aerosols, and also a linear trend (0.14 ± 0.4 K/Decade).

There is no way that the high degree of short term correlation between solar activity and temperature observed by Solanki and Schuessler pre-1980 can be explained by the tiny variations in Total Solar Insolation (about a tenth of a percent over the solar cycle). Yet when they see how the IPCC’s TSI-only model under-predicts their own observations, they don’t question the IPCC’s fixing of total solar effects at 1/14th the strength of CO2, but count this garbage-in model as evidence against their own data. That’s not right guys. Data is supposed to trump theory/assumption. That’s the definition of the scientific method.

Solanki, Schuessler and their colleagues have done some of the most important climate research of the last decade, creating several of the paleo-reconstructions of solar activity that make extended solar-climate studies possible. Unfortunately, they are misinterpreting the correlation between solar activity and temperature. Short correlation lags do not imply rapid equilibration. They just reflect the rapid temperature response of the upper ocean layer, leaving the equilibration speed of deeper ocean layers an open question. Thus short correlation lags provide no grounds for dismissing a solar explanation for late 20th century warming. Scientists who have been presuming otherwise should be willing to reconsider.

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April 9, 2011 7:35 pm

Leif Svalgaard says:
April 9, 2011 at 6:54 pm
Several things, the most glaring being:
(2) RT = derivative (AT)
(3) RT = derivative (SQRT(AT)^2)
The square of the SQRT(AT) is always positive. Hence RT is always positive.
I guess his fuzzy math got to me too 🙂
We need one more step:
(2) RT = derivative (AT)
(3) RT = derivative (SQRT(AT)^2)
(4) RT = 2 SQRT(AT)
The SQRT of the positive number AT [in Kelvin] is always positive, hence RT is always positive. Now. mathematically SQRT(4) could be either +2 or -2, but his formula does not specify which sign to use, so is defective. And the numbers are not right, let AT be 289K, then RT is 19K…

April 9, 2011 8:27 pm

Leif Svalgaard says:
April 9, 2011 at 7:35 pm
And the numbers are not right, let AT be 289K, then RT is 19K…
Jeez, once fuzzy math enters, there is no end to it. RT=2*19=38K. now is the per year, per cycle, per century, per what? no matter, wrong it is.

DR
April 9, 2011 11:17 pm

Tsonis’ “synchronized chaos” is looking more plausible all the time.

lgl
April 10, 2011 2:55 am

Leif
Thanks, agree, but SV = a(RT) + b is right, so there is a lag, and your “equal SVs will then correspond to equal T” is inaccurate because when SV crosses zero on the way down T is at max, and when SV crosses zero on the way up T is at min. And SV isn’t a fixed cycle so the lag will also vary, giving a very poor correlation between SV and T.

April 10, 2011 5:48 am

lgl says:
April 10, 2011 at 2:55 am
Thanks, agree, but SV = a(RT) + b is right, so there is a lag
No evidence for that and theoretical it doesn’t make any sense.
And SV isn’t a fixed cycle so the lag will also vary, giving a very poor correlation between SV and T.
The whole point of this article [see Figure 2, http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z36/AlecRawls/Environment%20and%20climate/SvensmarkreplytoLFFig2.png ] is that there is a correlation SV, T and with no lag. That correlation yields a small variation of T to SV as expected. The other figure http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z36/AlecRawls/Environment%20and%20climate/Solanki-Krivova2004Fig2b.png also shows no lag and a purported SC, T correlation, although there is a problem with the calibration of the Climax reconstruction.

ferd berple
April 10, 2011 7:06 am

50 years ago a generation of baby boomers were taught that Milankovitch was wrong. We were told that solar scientists had calculated the changes in solar radiation resulting from the earth’s orbit, and the variation in energy was not enough to explain the ice ages. The solar scientists of the time were certain of this. There theories could not be wrong. We were taught this in school, 50 years ago.
50 years later, we know how that prediction turned out. Milankovitch is now recognized as having been right. What the solar scientists didn’t stop to consider that just maybe their theories were wrong. That nature is not as predictable as they believed.
Today, having forgotten the lessons of the past, a new generation of solar scientists is just as convinced that variations in solar energy are not enough to explain climate change. Children are being taught that CO2, not the sun is the primary driver of earth’s climate. 50 years ago solar science was wrong, but today they are certain they are right.
Who is more likely to be right? The person whose advice turned out to be right in the past or the person whose advice turned out to be wrong in the past? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
A much more likely explanation is that climate is much less predictable than scientists believe — that small changes in solar radiation can result in large changes in climate.
One likely explanation is resonance – something that is overlooked in climate models. We know that the tidal forces of the sun and moon are not enough to cause the large tides we see in the ocean. If we simply consider these as forcings, then the tides on earth should only be about 9 inches. However, the sun and moon repeat in a regular pattern, which sets up resonance in the oceans, similar to a child on a playground swing. As a result, the tides on earth are much larger than can be explained by simple forcings.

April 10, 2011 7:28 am

ferd berple says:
April 10, 2011 at 7:06 am
We know that the tidal forces of the sun and moon are not enough to cause the large tides we see in the ocean. If we simply consider these as forcings, then the tides on earth should only be about 9 inches.
“It is not what you know that gets you in trouble, but what you know that ain’t so”.
The theoretical tide calculated from the forcings is 37 inches.

ferd berple
April 10, 2011 7:34 am

The major difference between solar forcings and CO2 forcings is that solar forcings are cyclical. They repeat in a pattern, which can lead to resonance. Resonance leads to amplification. The classic example is bridges failures caused by troops marching in step.
Climate science has ignored resonance in their models. They have not considered that in phase forcings can result in MUCH LARGER motion that happens with non-phased forcings.
Consider the child on a swing. When they lean back, the motion of the swing might be 1 inch. However, if they repeat this in phase, the motion of the swing can easily exceed 10 feet. An amplification of over 100.

lgl
April 10, 2011 7:50 am

Roy Spencers newer data is good evidence and the heat capacity makes it make sense.
http://virakkraft.com/SW-SST.png I have inverted Spencers green SW reflected to show SW to the surface. http://virakkraft.com/SW-SST-07.png The correlation is between SW and dSST, not SW and T. http://virakkraft.com/SW-dSST.png (from mid 07)

ferd berple
April 10, 2011 8:20 am

The level of solar activity during the past 70 years is exceptional — the last period of similar magnitude occurred over 8,000 years ago. The Sun was at a similarly high level of magnetic activity for only ~10% of the past 11,400 years, and almost all of the earlier high-activity periods were shorter than the present episode.[27]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_variation
27. ^ Solanki, Sami K.; Usoskin, Ilya G.; Kromer, Bernd; Schüssler, Manfred; Beer, Jürg (2004). “Unusual activity of the Sun during recent decades compared to the previous 11,000 years” (PDF). Nature 431 (7012): 1084–7. doi:10.1038/nature02995. PMID 15510145. http://cc.oulu.fi/%7Eusoskin/personal/nature02995.pdf. Retrieved 17 April 2007. , “11,000 Year Sunspot Number Reconstruction”. Global Change Master Directory. http://gcmd.nasa.gov/KeywordSearch/Metadata.do?Portal=GCMD&KeywordPath=%5BParameters%3ACategory%3D%27EARTH+SCIENCE%27%2CTopic%3D%27SUN-EARTH+INTERACTIONS%27%2CTerm%3D%27SOLAR+ACTIVITY%27%2CVariable%3D%27SUNSPOTS%27%5D&OrigMetadataNode=GCMD&EntryId=NOAA_NCDC_PALEO_2005-015&MetadataView=Brief&MetadataType=0&lbnode=gcmd3b. Retrieved 2005-03-11.

April 10, 2011 10:12 am

ferd berple says:
April 10, 2011 at 7:34 am
They repeat in a pattern, which can lead to resonance. Resonance leads to amplification. The classic example is bridges failures caused by troops marching in step.
Cycles phenomena do not inherently exhibit resonance. Resonance only happens when the forcing coincides with a natural cycle already present.
Consider the child on a swing. When they lean back, the motion of the swing might be 1 inch. However, if they repeat this in phase, the motion of the swing can easily exceed 10 feet. An amplification of over 100.
This is because he push or lean at times of the swing determined by natural frequency of the ‘pendulum’ that a swing really is. The frequency determined by the force of gravity and the length of the rope. External variations can then only lead to resonance if they occurs at a frequency that matches that of the natural oscillations of the climate in the first place.
lgl says:
April 10, 2011 at 7:50 am
The correlation is between SW and dSST, not SW and T. http://virakkraft.com/SW-dSST.png (from mid 07)
The time period is much too short for any definitive statement. And dSST often varies in step with T especially if there is a longer-term trend. Try to plot dSST as a function of T. And where is the phase lag of a 1/4 cycle? In general, if SV = a RT + b, then we can make a simple test case. Rewrite as SV – b = a RT. For the test make some artificial data where S-b is a sine wave [blue curve]. Set a=0.5 and plot a RT [pink curve]: http://www.leif.org/research/SV-and-RT.png . Then the temperature T is the integral of RT [yellow curve]. There is indeed a lag of 1/4 cycle, and a more startling result is that T is the same at the time of a ‘grand maximum’ [left circle] and at the time of a grand minimum [right circle]. This would the consequence of the assumption SV = a RT + b. So you are advocating no difference in temperature between grand minimum and grand maximum, right?
ferd berple says:
April 10, 2011 at 8:20 am
The level of solar activity during the past 70 years is exceptional
No, it is not: see e.g. Figure 10 of this peer-reviewed paper: http://www.leif.org/research/2009JA015069.pdf or http://www.leif.org/EOS/muscheler05nat_nature04045.pdf or http://www.leif.org/EOS/muscheler07qsr.pdf or
http://www.leif.org/EOS/2009GL038004.pdf
“It is not what you know that gets you in trouble, but what you know that ain’t so”.

lgl
April 10, 2011 11:28 am

No, I’m not. The heat capacity is large but not infinite so in the timeframe of grand min/max you have to use net energy input instead of SV 🙂

April 10, 2011 11:36 am

lgl says:
April 10, 2011 at 11:28 am
No, I’m not. The heat capacity is large but not infinite so in the timeframe of grand min/max you have to use net energy input instead of SV
Makes no sense. What is ‘net energy input’? So, you are saying that SV = a RT + b does not hold for the longer cycles when many people think they see ‘obvious’ correlation [LIA, MM].

lgl
April 10, 2011 2:28 pm

Leif
Of course it does. If the cycle is very long most of the ocean involved in the energy transfer will reach equilibrium earlier that 1/4 period after SW max, because LW out almost equals SW in. B t w Figure 2b from Solanki and Krivova, if solar was shifted 15 years forward the correlation would improve, because the 1940 peak and 1970 trough is ENSO and can be removed.

April 10, 2011 3:36 pm

lgl says:
April 10, 2011 at 2:28 pm
Of course it does. If the cycle is very long most of the ocean involved in the energy transfer will reach equilibrium earlier that 1/4 period after SW max, because LW out almost equals SW in. B t w Figure 2b from Solanki and Krivova, if solar was shifted 15 years forward the correlation would improve, because the 1940 peak and 1970 trough is ENSO and can be removed.
You should remove ENSO anyway before making the correlation [of course there those that claim that ENSO is also solar cycle related…]. So, if you claim there is a 1/4 cycle lag and SW = a RT + b holds then http://www.leif.org/research/SV-and-RT.png
is applicable. Now, instead of all your hand waving [and ‘of courses’] you could try to do some real science. Take e.g. Loehle’s global temperatures, calculate RT, and Krivova’s TSI for SV, and show that the relation holds.

lgl
April 11, 2011 6:06 am

No need. Their fig.1 and 2 already show the lag.

lgl
April 11, 2011 8:01 am

Ok Leif. I don’t have their numbers so here is a ssn recon. and Loehle. Temperature correlates with C14, which lags ssn by 20 years. You can even see the long-cycle lag of 100-150 years. Because solar stayed below average for a very long time before 1600, temperature kept dropping until 1600. http://virakkraft.com/solar-temp.png

April 11, 2011 8:09 am

lgl says:
April 11, 2011 at 6:06 am
No need. Their fig.1 and 2 already show the lag.
Not good enough. Just shows a poor correlation.

April 11, 2011 8:29 am

lgl says:
April 11, 2011 at 8:01 am
Ok Leif. I don’t have their numbers so here is a ssn recon. and Loehle. Temperature correlates with C14, which lags ssn by 20 years.
I don’t see anything but a very poor correlation, how you get a lag is beyond me. Is the graphs supposed to show SW = a Rt + b? That is the issue. If there is a correlation at all a lag might be reasonable anyway. It is also possible there is a lag in the C14 data, as the carbon cycle is long. Conveniently your lag is two solar cycles, so will not show up in a plot of solar cycles versus temps.
You can get SV data from http://www.leif.org/research/Corrected%20SSN%20and%TSI.xls or .txt if you prefer. Loehle’s data is on his website.

lgl
April 11, 2011 2:31 pm

Leif
4 out of 5 (or 5 of 6) peaks match, in addition to the one around 2000. http://virakkraft.com/solar-temp-lag.png Thanks for the data but it’s a bit short coverage.

April 11, 2011 6:59 pm

lgl says:
April 11, 2011 at 2:31 pm
4 out of 5 (or 5 of 6) peaks match, in addition to the one around 2000. http://virakkraft.com/solar-temp-lag.png Thanks for the data but it’s a bit short coverage.
You cherry pick sometimes from one curve, sometimes from the others. Not good enough. One of your other graphs claimed that seven years was enough, now you dismiss 400 years. Here are the past 2000 years: http://www.leif.org/research/Steinhilber.xls expressed as the magnitude of the Heliospheric magnetic field.

lgl
April 12, 2011 3:04 am

Leif
No cherry pick. I put the lines on solar peaks. Actually I claimed 3 years was enough, because that covers three periods of temp variation. I also claim 3 days is enough, if you want to find the lag in the diurnal cycle. Your first TSI recon was complete only from 1750 and Loehle stops in 1930, but in this time frame the strongest cycle is more than 100 years so 180 years of data is not enough.
The Steinhilber is good and this time I have cherry picked post 1200 because we don’t have good proxies before 1300, and I have used the integral of SW. Then there should be no lag and there isn’t. Still 4 of 5 peaks intact. http://virakkraft.com/TSI-integral-temp.png

April 12, 2011 5:10 am

lgl says:
April 12, 2011 at 3:04 am
The Steinhilber is good and this time I have cherry picked post 1200 because we don’t have good proxies before 1300, and I have used the integral of SW. Then there should be no lag and there isn’t. Still 4 of 5 peaks intact.
Should not cherry pick past 1200. What you mean is that it breaks down before 1300, so the data must be bad. Your ‘peaks’ are in the eyes of the beholder.

lgl
April 12, 2011 6:03 am

There are peaks at 1250, 1400, 1800 and (probably) 2000, both curves. It breaks down around 1100, 1450-1480 and 1600s because of volcanoes. http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/largeeruptions.cfm