Pick a number, and that reactor is described as being near a meltdown. The news coverage coming out of Japan is even more confused when American media deciphers it. Hopefully hard facts come in soon…
Meltdown occurred according to Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency
URGENT: March 12 00:00 PST: Explosion at Nuclear Facility
VIDEO of explosion at nuke plant.
Reuters Live Earthquake News Feed
Several people appear to be injured at Fukushima nuclear plant – NHK
Walls and roof of a building at site destroyed by blast – NHK via Sky News
UPDATE: 22:50 PST: BREAKING NEWS: Pressure successfully released from Fukushima No. 1 reactor: agency
UPDATE: 21:47 PST: Meltdown underway at Reactor #1? http://twitter.com/#!/dicklp
Fukushima fuel cores are melting at 2000C and dropping onto steel floor. Steel melts at 1500C. Could still be brought under control, but Four other Fukushima nuke reactors are struggling with similar problem. If multiple meltdown begins, it will be uncontrollable.
Nuclear reactor coolant systems are running on batteries, and the coolant has reached the boiling point. Extremely critical situation currently at several earthquake affected nuclear reactors. Officials are concerned that a Three Mile Island 1979 meltdown could happen here. Reuters Link
From the LA Times:
Conditions appear to be worsening at a nuclear power plant in Fukushima Prefecture in northeastern Japan, according to local media.
The Kyodo news agency reported that the cooling system has failed at three reactors of Fukushima No. 2 nuclear power plant. The coolant water’s temperature had reached boiling temperature, the agency reported, citing the power plant’s operator, Tokyo Electric Power.
The cooling system failure at the No. 2 power plant came after officials were already troubled by the failure of the emergency cooling system at the Fukushima No. 1 plant, which officials feared could cause a meltdown.
P. Solar says:
March 13, 2011 at 4:47 am
“With 10,000 people missing due the tsunami and earthquake , evacuating 200,000 more because of this nuclear “incident” is a huge distraction of man-power and other resources that are needed to help the tsunami victims. ”
It’s not like they need to be carried. Most of them will simply pack up and drive in their own car.
While in no way trying to make light of this terrible tragedy… has any notice the incredible number of SUVs in Japan? I’m hard pressed to find many cars. Makes one think what the average Japanese really thinks of CAGW theory.
ecliptic says:
March 12, 2011 at 2:43 pm
Do me a favor and release the freak content of your Medieval mindset somewhere else.
KevinUK
re
“Given this admission where do you think the hydrogen has come from? Do you think it’s come from the dissociation of the reactor coolant? This looks highly likely to me and if so the coolant (very likely in the form of superheated steam must have been in contact with an appropriate material was also a high temperature. That material could be steel componnets that form part of the internals of the reactor pressure vessel or more likely IMO the zirconium that forms the cladding around the fuel pellets within the the fuel pins of the fuel assemblies of this type of reactor system.”
That’s an interesting question – because, looking at BWR schematics, is an obvious path by which hydrogen generated in the core would end up in the reactor building/hall in significant concentrations. It’d arrive in the suppression chamber (where I’d expect detectors), from which the leakage path would be out via filtration to the stack, not into the hall.
If there’s some fault-related path, I’d have expected significant radioactive release to be associated. There seems to be no sign of that. Moreover, I’d expect it to be sustained (along with the caesium and iodine releases). The fact that levels have dropped post explosion makes me doubt that such a pathway exists. So far as I can tell (given the usual fog), the caesium/ioding detection reports are associated with venting via the stack.
Recall, too that the spent fuel ponds are protected by the reactor building/hall. I’d expect some local contamination around those, aome of which would be dispersed by air movement at the time of the explosion.
Which makes me wonder about other sources for hydrogen, or other causes. One obvious one would be stator coolant from the turbine hall, as G Karst has discussed above. There are reports that the damage originated there:
http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/japan-tsunami-aftermath-explosion-at-fukushima-nuclear-power-plant-91217
Frankly, if there’s been significant fuel damage, it’d be very obvious by now, as radiation levels climbed in the wetwell/suppression area. I’m not seeing reports suggesting that.
Sorry
“because, looking at BWR schematics, is an obvious path by which hydrogen generated in the core would end up in the reactor building/hall in significant concentrations. ”
should have read
“because, looking at BWR schematics, there’s no obvious path by which hydrogen generated in the core would end up in the reactor building/hall in significant concentrations. “
@Andrew Dawson
I calculate that, at 8 Mw, about 450 #/min of make up is required to maintain inventory. From what I see the problem is that there is either a) no recirculating cooling available and/or b) no source of normal makeup of clean reactor grade water available. The lack of recirculating cooling means that the core is cooled by a once-through pass through the core and out a relief valve (also called feed and bleed). Since this water is not recirculated a new source (make up) is required. In BWRs I think this comes from either the condenser or the Condensate Storage Tank (I am a PWR guy). I suspect that these sources are unavailable due to earthquake/tsunami damage or have been depleted. I think THAT explains what Hillary Clinton meant when she said that “coolant was being shipped” and why seawater is now being used.
Another consideration is that if the core is damaged, there could be local areas that do not have a coolable geometry.
Kwik said
“People have been injured; Are you talking about those 2 or 3 persons with bruises after the explosion”
Do you actually know their injuries or are you just making things up?
Andy
A very lucid explanation of events: http://morgsatlarge.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/why-i-am-not-worried-about-japans-nuclear-reactors/
Yes this is something to be avoided. But it is more TMI and not Chernobyl.
You may find some of info here : http://twitter.com/#!/norishikata – English language tweets by the Deputy Cabinet Secretary for Public Relations, Director of Global Communications at Prime Minister’s Office of Japan. Goes into a bit of detail on the cooling measures being taken for the different reactors.
Finnish STUK has questioned safety of those nukplants in many times along IAEA. In USA there is same safety issues to modify, but nobody are willing to pay the bill. So if you get broblems, don’t say, you’re not warned.
Are the Japanese BWR containments equipped with H2 detonators to prevent buildup to explosive concentrations?
I have heard reports that 3m of fuel was uncovered. Thats probably most of the entire core height! I don’t see how this is consistent with the relatively low radiation levels that have been reported.
kwik says: -People have been injured; Are you talking about those 2 or 3 persons with bruises after the explosion? I think that is a bit …..hmmmm…
Maybe you are curiously ignoring the 10,000 people dead or missing. Not much to be done for the dead but the less-than-dead may like a rescue operation.
That would already be stretching emergency services if they were not being diverted to deal (as a priority) with a nuclear crisis and evacuation of nearly 200,000 people, many of whom may also be injured and have probably just seen their car swept out to sea or half way up a mountain.
BTW , I think the fourth guy, in the crane, got “bruised” to death.
dirkH says: “It’s not like they need to be carried. Most of them will simply pack up and drive in their own car.”
Hey, check out the video coverage. Anyone near the coast no longer owns individual transport. Those further inland can’t get fuel, most of which has been reserved for emergency services. Unless they can catch a ride on a passing roof-top they may need some help evacuating. (Not their bowels, that’s probably taken care of.)
So , yes , this little question of pump failure will have HUGE collateral damage effect on the local population.
Some pedants may wish to say this is not the fault of nuclear industry it is the fault of diesel generator installers, the air tiler manufacture or “an act of God”.
The fact that these idiots build nuclear plant almost on top of a major seismic fault and failed to anticipate that a 9.0 quake may be followed by a tsunami is mind blowing.
That anyone who can say the only injuries are “2 or 3 persons with bruises ” is … well, words fail.
Indeed, Lanceman re the need for make-up. I’d come to similar numbers. Although I’m assuming at least some is being recirculated.
If there’s damaged fuel in any volume, it’d be very obvious from monitoring of the coolant. And yes, the 3M doesn’t seem very credible – core height is 3.6M in this plant.
Julie, thankyou. I think there’s something significant here. My emphasis:
# “Vent” is the measure to reduce pressure from the “pressure container” by releasing air from inside. about 15 hours ago via web
# By conducting vent, minute quantities of radioactive materials are released from exhaust pipe. Radioactive levels not judged to be harmful. about 16 hours ago via web
# At 9:20, “vent” for primary containment vessel of Unit 3 was started. Cooling of the container is expected to be realized by this measure. about 16 hours ago via web
# Injection of pure water and boric acid into Unit 3 this morning is measures to further improve safety of the nuclear power plant. about 16 hours ago via web
# Unit 3 reactor at Fukushima I is under control with pure water and boron injected after 9 am this morning.Similar countermeasure as Unit 1. about 16 hours ago via web
# As a measure to limit damage to the reactor, Sea water mixed with boron was injected into container. The injection began at 2020 last night. about 18 hours ago via web
# The plant operator of Fukushima I plant, TEPCO, has confirmed that the integrity of the primary containment vessel of Unit 1 remains intact
Taking these at face value, it seems the use of seawater may be only for make-up into the suppression systems, rather than into the reactor cores themselves. That’s potentially far less damaging to the plant in the long term.
My hunch is that there is much pressure by government entities (what government would not do this?) to adjust the message in the reports to their own governmental interests. Sometimes the reason is for benevolent purposes, and sometimes the reason is to keep some unseemly issue out of the public domain. Sometimes it is a mixture of both and is both spoken and unspoken pressure. We shall see in the long run how great and longlasting this devastating event really was for Japan.
To add insult to injury…. a volcano fires up in SW Japan:
http://www.timeslive.co.za/world/article965229.ece/Japanese-volcano-erupts
lanceman says:
March 13, 2011 at 10:42 am
“Are the Japanese BWR containments equipped with H2 detonators to prevent buildup to explosive concentrations?”
That would be so you would be sure to know if there was an explosive mixture, right?
I have been watching the coverage of the Japanese earthquake and have been very furstrated because of the lack of true content. The media does not seem to not know very much and have coped with that lack of knowledge by repeating buzz phrases and creating scare stories
http://morgsatlarge.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/why-i-am-not-worried-about-japans-nuclear-reactors/
Dave Farber sent out the URL for the following story on the his IP list. The story is an engineering account of the procedures that are being followed to deal with the nuclear reactors and the science and engineering behind them. There is no crisis that is going to produce loss of life. That is the story behind the hype that is the common prodict of the professional media
kwik says:
March 13, 2011 at 7:52 am
-The evacuation is a precaution, right? They do it by the book.
I’ve never heard of an evacuation over a breakdown at a coal fired electricity plant.
I have been watching the coverage of the Japanese earthquake and have been very frustrated because of the lack of true content. The media does not seem to not know wery much and have coped with that lack of knowledge by repeating buzz phrases and creating scare stories.
http://morgsatlarge.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/why-i-am-not-worried-about-japans-nuclear-reactors/
Dave Farber sent out the URL for the following story on the his IP list. The story is an understandable engineering account of the procedures that are being followed to deal with the nuclear reactors and the science and engineering behind them. There is no crisis that is going to produce loss of life. That is the story beyond the hype that is the common product of the professional media.
Now of course this brings up questions of just why the professional media is handling this situation so poorly and why this is not an exception. From what I can tell this is because of the lack of resources that these professional agencies can bring to bear on the issue. General function and political reporters are assigned to a story for which they have no expertise beyond that of a layman. The agency has little else to provide and so these stories are those that a layman or “some bloke down the pub” would create. Thus the hype because they have little else to offer. What appears to be happening now is that the amateur media in the form of the blogosphere is harnessing the expertise of true experts. The blogosphere has infinitely more resources than the professional media and this is being demonstrated now.
McLuhan talked about the global village. I suppose that this is what is being demonstrated now. The expertise present in the commons is being assigned to the task. The president of HP once said “If HP only knew what HP knows”. By that he meant what is happening now. HP and other companies are burdened with a hierarchical management system in which knowledge is filtered and thus blocked as it rises in the organization. The management layers do not have the capacity to truly understand the knowledge being generated beneath them. That is not their function. The professional media provide this hierarchical filtering in the general population. The flat characteristic of the blogosphere does not provide the filtering function but provides for the rapid assembly of the expertise necessary to analyze, create and distribute knowledge.
The professional media decry with some reason the anarchy of the blogosphere. However the anarchy of the blogosphere allows to to deal with unexpected situations that overwhelm the limited resources of the professional agencies. The link between the coverage of this disaster and the failure of the professional media in eh coverage of climate change is apparent
@ur momisugly pochas
“That would be so you would be sure to know if there was an explosive mixture, right?”
These systems (required in US reactor containments after TMI) are designed to burn off H2 before explosive concentrations are reached. There is separate instrumentation to measure H2 concentrations in the containment to determine whether to activate the H2 burners.
Hopefully everything turns out for the best, the people working on the problems have been going 3 days straight.
I guess a silver lining might be the real-world engineering data that will be gathered.
Tom Grey;
About the media response, one word: “disasturbation”.
😉
kwik says:
March 13, 2011 at 7:52 am
Dont forget that the reason for all this in the first place is an earth-quake and a tsunami.
Earthquakes and tsunamis are a normal part of the earth. They have always happened. There have been worse of both in the past. And it is only logical to say there will be worse of both in the future.
Hydrogen is hard to detect in small concentrations, and if they did know that they had an explosive mixture, what difference would it make, other than to get everybody out of there? Without fans, they can’t do anything about it.
If they wanted to make the building able to deal with H2, they’d want to make a roof that would fall in. H2 rises, and without a roof, would just keep going.