Pick a number, and that reactor is described as being near a meltdown. The news coverage coming out of Japan is even more confused when American media deciphers it. Hopefully hard facts come in soon…
Meltdown occurred according to Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency
URGENT: March 12 00:00 PST: Explosion at Nuclear Facility
VIDEO of explosion at nuke plant.
Reuters Live Earthquake News Feed
Several people appear to be injured at Fukushima nuclear plant – NHK
Walls and roof of a building at site destroyed by blast – NHK via Sky News
UPDATE: 22:50 PST: BREAKING NEWS: Pressure successfully released from Fukushima No. 1 reactor: agency
UPDATE: 21:47 PST: Meltdown underway at Reactor #1? http://twitter.com/#!/dicklp
Fukushima fuel cores are melting at 2000C and dropping onto steel floor. Steel melts at 1500C. Could still be brought under control, but Four other Fukushima nuke reactors are struggling with similar problem. If multiple meltdown begins, it will be uncontrollable.
Nuclear reactor coolant systems are running on batteries, and the coolant has reached the boiling point. Extremely critical situation currently at several earthquake affected nuclear reactors. Officials are concerned that a Three Mile Island 1979 meltdown could happen here. Reuters Link
From the LA Times:
Conditions appear to be worsening at a nuclear power plant in Fukushima Prefecture in northeastern Japan, according to local media.
The Kyodo news agency reported that the cooling system has failed at three reactors of Fukushima No. 2 nuclear power plant. The coolant water’s temperature had reached boiling temperature, the agency reported, citing the power plant’s operator, Tokyo Electric Power.
The cooling system failure at the No. 2 power plant came after officials were already troubled by the failure of the emergency cooling system at the Fukushima No. 1 plant, which officials feared could cause a meltdown.
Kwik, it’s entirely possible that if the water were stored higher than the plant that the water storage facilities or their delivery system to the plant could also have been ruptured by the earthquake. I don’t think that ‘what-if’ speculations are going to be helpful until the post-mortum is done on the damages to the affected nuculear plants.
rbateman said on March 11, 2011 at 9:28 pm:
Not that simple. If the diesel engines were sucking water through the air intakes then they’re likely wrecked. The condition is known as hydrolock. Simply put, when a running engine finds too much of a incompressible substance (like water) in a cylinder whose contents it is trying to compress, terrible mechanical damage from severe overpressure usually results. Diesel engines are more susceptible to hydrolock than gasoline engines.
There are ways to design engines to survive such extreme overpressure events and be more resilient to water intake, as found with marine engines. However it seems unlikely these diesel generators were tested with buckets of water being poured into the air intakes. The engines on those generators will need major rebuilding, if they can be salvaged at all.
Also, hydrolock is something that drivers of smaller cars are becoming even more aware of. Especially noted on newer cars, the air intakes are being placed rather low. Driving through a deep puddle, or getting heavily splashed by nearby water, can lead to needing engine replacement. Post-tsunami or with just ordinary flooding, with remaining pools of water, this could be a problem.
It may also factor into the declining popularity of “microcars” like the Smart car. Most people prefer to be able to drive over puddles without needing a new engine afterwards.
Well the northwest US and western Canada is next:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia_subduction_zone
“Temperatures in the control room rose to higher than 100 Celsius (212 Fahrenheit), said Naoki Tsunoda, a company spokesman. ”
I think they meant that the temperatures (of the containment) DISPLAYED in the control room rose to higher than 100 Celsius. A word or two in the wrong place makes a BIG difference.
Dave Springer says:
“The nuclear number (4) wouldn’t even account for mining accidents digging up uranium ore, refining it into fuel, moving millions of tons of steel and concrete needed to build the plants, and actual on-site construction accidents.”
So, since wind requires about 10 times the amount of metal and concrete of nuclear, counter per kWh delivered… Where does that put wind?
Also, don’t forget Neodymium. The way the chinese go about getting that out of the ground deserves a second look:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1350811/In-China-true-cost-Britains-clean-green-wind-power-experiment-Pollution-disastrous-scale.html
lanceman says:
March 12, 2011 at 12:31 pm
“Don’t forget that this plant is a relatively small (< 500 Mwe) plant designed in the mid-late 1960's that went online in 1971."
One news report i read today said that the Fukushima reactor is "100 times more powerful than the Chernobyl reactor". That was an RBMK 1000 with about 800 MW. Wonder what that particular journalist misunderstood.
Wait, here is an echo of that misinformation:
"However, although these two situations may seem similar, RT’s correspondent and expert on the Chernobyl disaster, Aleksey Yaroshevsky, believes that, in reality, they are quite different.
First of all, what is happening in Japan is an aftermath of a natural disaster, and not a man-made one, like Chernobyl.
Besides, the Japanese reactor is one hundred times more powerful than the one in the fourth block of the Chernobyl power plant, which exploded in 1986. In fact, the two stations in the Fukushima region produce the world’s largest joint amount of energy.
"
http://www.eurasiareview.com/world-news/asia/japan-nuclear-plant-in-radiation-leak-danger-11032011/
To Jim,
Just a comment – I wasn’t trying for a root cause analysis, or trying to say something that was detailed in any way – No false conclusions intended in my general statement. The ground moved, something(s) broke, and a major problem resulted with the nucs in question – the analysis is for later – my post was intended to point out that the nucs are a small issue compared when to the maybe 9500 people who are missing in just one town (according to reports).
Also the question of who is talking about the movement of Japan’s coast and the Earth’s axis is none other than the USGS according to “news” reports I’ve seen, at least they are attributed in the stories….
Mike
@ur momisugly boballab says:
March 12, 2011 at 3:08 am
Naval Nuclear Power School graduate Class 8602
—–
Thanks, Bob! I’ve worked with nuclear submariners in the past, you guys are the uppermost of the elite with these things.
I’m still trying to figure out WHAT exploded, the media reports indicate that it was a building around the steel reactor housing….?
An external building housing equipment (such as a turbine building, but your point about BWR vs. PWR is right on) seemed very plausible, given the number of breakdowns I’m reading about.
Good footage of the blast from my favorite media source, Al Jezeera:
No matter what, this is not good. Scratch these reactors.
calm down guys……this is a different design of reactor from 3 mile island. there was an explosion from hot water meeting cool air. But the design of the nuclear element is intact. The deisign means we fight to keep the nuclear reaction going….so when those conditions are not met, we can all go home safe
lanceman says:
March 12, 2011 at 12:56 pm
“I think they meant that the temperatures (of the containment) DISPLAYED in the control room rose to higher than 100 Celsius. A word or two in the wrong place makes a BIG difference.”
These Japanese operators sure are hardy guys… First they withstand 1000 times the normal radiation, and they even continue working while being boiled alive… Their control room is placed right on top of the reactor for added fun, and when it explodes around them, they’re still doing their job. Are they all Chuck Norris? /sarc
I find the reports out so misleading and so contradictory that it is impossible to say what is going on. The news media has become like watching Twitter. One outlet reports something and all the other “re-tweet” it and soon it becomes “fact”.
The shed surrounding the containment vessel experienced either a steam explosion or a hydrogen explosion. My money is on hydrogen as the ventilation system in that shed probably wasn’t working correctly.
Picture of the shed is here:
http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2011/03/13/1226020/537109-fukushima-daiichi.jpg
Hydrogen is lighter than air, it would have accumulated at the roof of the building. It appears the explosion as at the roof of the building.
Reports are also misleading in reporting the death of an employee. That employee died at a different plant (Daini). At Daiichi, it is reported that four employees received non life-threatening injuries from the explosion. Probably hit by debris.
Be careful, the media are “spring loaded” to create a disaster here.
The reactor is a boiling water design. Relief of steam pressure would release radioactive steam. Presence of iodine and cesium could be from a lot of things. A fuel melt would, in my personal opinion, result in a much higher release than what we are seeing. I also note no mention of strontium which I would expect to see in a fuel melt. This is, again in my personal opinion, an indication of possible cladding damage but it might not even be that. At no time did the reactor run completely dry according to the evidence we have so far.
Worst case from what we have seen actual evidence for so far is clad damage, maybe partial melt of some fuel pellets, no core melt.
and a BBC commentater had to say global warming. These people are despicable.
‘As a testament to how you have all been brainwashed, during the same month as TMI in 1979, a large hydro dam in Gujarat Province in India ruptured and drowned 10,000 people in less than 15 minutes, and the press never reported a word about it. It was too caught up in Walter Cronkite’s stupid “worst industrial accident ever”.’
Hear hear! Thanks Colin.
Right from the start of reporting the Japan earthquake, the word ‘nuclear’ was constantly at the bottom of the page. The Press are obsessed with their own, baby-boomer focussed agenda. Many thousands of innocent people are suffering right now and ‘nuclear’ has nothing to do with it, but the blinkered obsessives we rely on for information can’t break the habit.
DirkH says:
More disinformation….. In fact, the two stations in the Fukushima region produce the world’s largest joint amount of energy.
The nuclear disinformation industry likes to confuse reactors with plants. We hear things like ‘nuclear plants cost as much as $20 billion’ and when you look it’s a triple or a quad.
There are 10 nuclear reactors at two locations in Fukushima.
TEPCO press releases as of 11 PM Tokyo time 12 March covering all 10 reactors.
http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11031234-e.html
http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11031233-e.html
harvey says:
March 12, 2011 at 12:56 pm
Well the northwest US and western Canada is next:
Would not surprise me sadly and I don’t think that Pelosi et al will be anywhere near as efficient and competent as the Japonese.
Earthquakes have been creeping up the west coast fault all year. There was one recently in the side fault of the main St A. This is the point where the fault is usually locked and therefore where there is most pent up energy.
boballab says:
March 12, 2011 at 10:54 am
According to the Japonese there buildings are designed to stand a max of 9.0 on the richter.
BWRs are not my thing. (Reactor pressure vessel materials were, and PWRs were more what I was familiar with, and EBR-II.) But this just don’t sound right to me.
There should not be an explosion. Chernobyl was different. It was essentially designed to fail the way it did. It is a testimony to Russian know-how that there were so many hours of safe operations with those bad designs.
Anyway, don’t worry about China syndrome. It ain’t happening. Bad things can happen, and it may be worse than I can expect it to be, but I am still confident in the multiple levels of safety. The public will not be harmed from this, except for the economic cost. Still, no lives will be lost, and no babies with deformities due it.
I will wait for the final reports.
@4:17EST, Reuters is reporting that the emergency cooling system has failed at reactor no.3 leaving them scrambling for cooling…
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/12/us-japan-quake-nuclear-cooling-idUSTRE72B3GI20110312
NISA:
“The walls of the building containing the reactor were destroyed, meaning that the metal container encasing the reactor did not explode,” Edano said.
“The amount of radiation detected inside the plant after 4:00 p.m. slightly exceeded the dose people can safely receive in a year, according to information obtained by the Fukushima prefectural government.”
Anyone else having problems getting the logic of these statements sorted out?
I have heard two opposing views in the media in the last hour from the maze of comments from “experts”, calm minds and alarmists.
“This nuclear catastrophe could wipe Japan and half of Asia off the map”
“The main message that will come out of this is what a great job the nuclear designers of the 1960’s did to be able to contain a reactor close to the epicentre and tsunami of the countries largest ever recorded earthquake which will hold nuclear power in great stead for the future.
Mmmnn – I guess what happens in the next few days at Fukushima is going to be a pretty important for the world.
What many people may not realise is that most, if not all, of our knowledge on the effects of nuclear exposure came from the two bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki that is until Chernobyl.
What Chernabyl taught us was ten times more than the bombs. It showed us that nuclear radiation was not as damaging as first thought, although very unpleasant in relatively small doses, and that we can survive quite high doses and radiation damage and still survive for quite a time. Forget Greanpeace and FoE if you want the truth.
Esteemed Theoretical Physicist Michio Kaku was the go-to guy for ABC News (US) for all things theoretical about the earthquake and subsequent events throughout Friday. (Ignore the absolutely coincidental selection and near-exclusive use of a Japanese-descent science expert for the Japanese earthquake, he lives in New York City thus could easily get to the studio.)
In the brief bit before the 12:30PM Presidential news conference started when they were showing the NYC news studio, he was very agitated, practically screaming about a true “China Syndrome” in Japan.
Later on Nightline, on tape and noticeably calmer, he was again talking about a China Syndrome, warning of how the clock was ticking, of how a secondary earthquake could cause a previously-damaged pipe to rupture and cause all that coolant to spill out onto the floor.
…
Given what I knew before and what I’ve learned the past few days here on WUWT about nuclear plants, their design and operation… I’m seriously wondering if this “theoretical physicist” is theoretically a scientist.
when do you Americans calm down ad look at the evidence?
tallbloke,
The media outlets are flailing right now and you have a bunch of language majors trying to put together articles on a very technical topic.
They all smell “the story of the century” because the word “meltdown” has been tossed around.
This is a test to close the italics someone left open. Or maybe it was a blockquote