"The main problem is that the earth is hot, flat and crowded"

That headline is a newspaper article quote from NASA JPL’s resident climatologist Bill Patzert.

However, given how badly writer “Beige Luciano-Adams” has botched the rest of the article Patzert is featured in, I suspect it is a misquote. Patzert can’t really be claiming the Earth is flat.

From San Gabriel Valley News, more channeling of Krugman’s nonsense:

Here’s the relevant quotes from Patzert:

“I’m a big global warming person, and I think climate change in the next century will be the largest determinant of human civilization,” he said.

“(But) this is not global warming, not yet. It definitely will be in the next century. The change in global temperatures has been about one degree over the last century,” he said, adding, “We’ve had some pretty extreme weather here, but not unprecedented droughts and floods.”

While Patzert acknowledges floods and fires in Australia, droughts in China and Russia’s droughts and heat wave precipitated the recent wheat crisis, he calls them “definitely extreme, but not record-breaking or unprecedented.”

“Krugman had some good points…The only thing I would say is it’s a preview of coming attractions not a first taste yet,” he said.

Patzert blames overpopulation and supply and demand in a flat economy for interfering with our capacity to cope with “not unprecedented” extreme weather. The main problem, he said, is that the earth is “hot, flat and crowded.”

h/t to WUWT reader and surfacestations volunteer Juan Slayton

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Dave Dodd
February 14, 2011 2:43 pm

“Earth is hot”…OK, can someone please tell me what the temperature is SUPPOSED to be? …and just who decided that? Anyone? Anyone? Vikings?………..(crickets)

Michael
February 14, 2011 3:16 pm

“Food shortages caused by global warming may be cause of world-wide unrest.”
Food shortages caused by global cooling, the Federal Reserve, and Wall Street/COMEX/CME may be cause of world-wide unrest.
There. Fixed it for ya.

Craig Goodrich
February 14, 2011 3:35 pm

The “flat” refers to economically — it’s a literary reference to NYT columnist and AGW hypocrite Thomas Friedman’s book dealing with globalization and climate change.

February 14, 2011 5:01 pm

simonared says:
As we edge slowly but surely to Soylent Green Tuesdays!!
LOL – I just watched that (again) last night!
It struck me as quite interesting exactly how that story comes across almost like a playbook for warmists – almost like they all watched it and thought it was a documentary from the future. Well, we’re only 11 years away – I guess we’ll see soon enough…

Colin
February 14, 2011 8:05 pm

In 2010 for the first time ever since the abandonment of horsedrawn transport, more than half of the US corn crop has been converted to ethanol. I believe that might have a lot more to do with the rise in food prices, along with the incidental crop failure in Ukraine, than anything global warming related.

February 14, 2011 9:23 pm

While debating the effect of globacoolawarming on food production is interesting, the true insanity in this article is blaming unrest and revolution in Tunisia and Egypt on food prices. Certainly when food prices fluctuate in poor countries it has a bigger impact than in wealthy ones, and you could even argue that it was the straw the broke the camel’s back I suppose, but the notion that it is the main factor, or even a major one is a new level of… I can’t come up with a word that is appropriate and isn’t a major insult along the lines of an ad hominem attack. To hold out the spectre of unrest in those countries as a sign of things to come when (not if!) global warming arrives (in the NEXT century no less…just 89 years to go!) is so bereft of facts, logic and reason to anyone who pays the slightest attention to world politics that the worst ad hominem attack I could come up with would be insufficient. Turning a blind eye to who is fomenting unrest in the middle east and why is ten times as dangerous as blaming fluctuations in food prices and then compounding the sin by tying them by some tenuous absurd logic to changes in climate that might happen… in “the next century”. Not only is Chicken WarmaLittle screaming that the sky is falling, the little b****rd is claiming that he can see the cracks in the sky from something that hasn’t happened yet and won’t for a century.
Further, the notion that the food shortages in various poor countries is a consequence of price fluctuations or ethanol production is equally a determined effort to be willfully ignorant of the blindingly obvious. I’m 50 years old and cannot remember a time in my life when there was NOT strife and famine in one part of Africa or another. Food is cheap, and it is so cheap that even the poor countries can afford it. Incredibly incompetant and insanely corrupt management is the one, and the ONLY significant factor in food shortages anywhere in the world. Zimbabwe was transformed from the bread basket of Africa to a fiscal basket case where mice are now a staple food by corrupt and idiotic management. North Koreans subsist on 4 ounces of rice per day so their “dear leader” can pretend to be a nuclear power while his citizens barely survive and mostly from hand outs from the rest of the world. South Korea with near identical resources struggles with obesity as an emerging health risk. Israel is just as much desert as Egypt, but is a net exporter of food. Historicaly the WHOLE REGION suffered periods of famine for centuries and the population mostly survived quite well at the heights of the Egyption empire(s) because food sources were well managed, and that was millenia before refrigeration was even invented! Gaza WAS an exporter of food until the Israelis withdrew and abandoned gigantic greenhouse infrastructures that were promptly torn to pieces to make rockets by the exact same people who then complain that they don’t have enough food and it isn’t their fault. Incompetence and corruption resulted in starvation in Africa and elsewhere decades before global warming was invented, and growing crops for ethanol too for that matter. Good management with the most primitive of technologies allowed empires such as Rome, Egypt, the Dynasties of China and others to remain stable for centuries at a time. Read their histories and yes, you will find their empires crumbled as they were torn apart, no longer capable of defending themselves, by the barbarian hordes from without and the hunger driven revolution from within. The tragic consequences had nothing to do with fluctuations in food supplies or the availability of military forces to protect the people. The empires failed because they became mired in corruption and incompetent in managing their resources.
So Chicken WarmingLittle can point at food shortages and claim they are responsible the fall of governments, but it is a lie of gargantuan proportions. The food shortages are the consequence of corrupt and incompetent management. The revolutionaries are screaming for their ouster, and rightfully so. But the barbarians are gathering at the gates while their prophets are already inside masquerading as the voice of reason, an accusing finger levelled at the corrupt incompetent government while the other hand quietly unlocks the gates.
Chicken WarminLittle says there are no barbarians and the gates don’t even need to be locked. We should worry about events a century from now instead.
No wonder that chickens run around for ten minutes after you cut their heads off. They’re too stupid to know they are dead.
My apologies for the ad hominem attack. Not fair to the chickens at all.

HK
February 15, 2011 1:18 am

This is one of the least impressive posts I have read on WUWT (and I enjoy the site).
When climate alarmists write about “filling up the sceptics’ echo chamber with wilful misinterpretations” (e.g. here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2011/feb/14/climate-cranks-caution-sceptics-protest) they could have no better example than people here suggesting the “flat” comment could mean anything other than in the Friedman sense.

Garry
February 15, 2011 6:19 am

It may be “hot, flat, and crowded” for “them,” but it certainly is not for AGW promoter Tom Friedman. Take a peek at his spacious, cool, and lush manse in Maryland. Wonder what it costs to maintain that perfecto green lawn in the hot Maryland summers.
http://cryptome.org/eyeball/friedman/friedman-mansion.htm
By the way, about ~40 years ago author John Brunner wrote a novel called “Stand On Zanzibar,” in which he calculated that by the year 2010, all of the planet’s predicted 7 billion population could stand shoulder-to-shoulder and fit on the island of Zanzibar.
Take a look at Zanzibar on any map, and I think you’ll also disagree with Friedman that the planet is even “crowded,” although it is most certainly the case that mankind remains prone to hubris (e.g., CAGW), solipsism, and apocalyptic fantasies, and that these are all endemic parts of the human condition.

MackemX
February 15, 2011 7:16 am

Egypt having had fixed, subsidised food prices off the back of Western aid being used to support Mubarak’s regime is presumably news to the author of the otherwise badly written and misinformed article?
Journalists these days are far too accepting of any old tosh they’re fed by ‘authority’ figures.

S Bleve
February 15, 2011 7:47 am

At first my thought ‘how do people come up with such notions?’ but in reality the truth sucks. A greenhouse will produce far more vegan material than nature on the same plot.
What in the Northern hemisphere is driving the food quantity? ESA and EPA.

Josh Grella
February 15, 2011 9:03 am

Gordon says:
February 14, 2011 at 2:34 am
In case no one’s told you, we are still converting perfectly good food to fuel. On top of that, here in the States at least, we pay farmers NOT to farm portions of their land to help control the amount of food produced as a method of price control. When we stop those 2 practices and eliminate (as many others have already pointed out) those dictators/governments that mismanage food supplies, and there is mass starvation, I’ll agree that there MAY BE too many people. Until that happens, stop the complete bulls**t tired old “the Earth is overcrowded with the evil humans” mantra. Or, if you are still convinced that your thought is the correct one, practice what you preach and start reducing the population by eliminating yourself. Sorry for the rant, but wow, how misinformed can people be? Don’t answer that. I don’t want to know any more than I already have witnessed…

juanslayton
February 15, 2011 9:09 am

HK:
…wilful (sic) misinterpretations…could have no better example than people here suggesting the “flat” comment could mean anything other than in the Friedman sense.
Aw, come on, HK–give us illiterati a break. It takes time for these sophisticated East Coast neologisms to percolate down to us West Coast working stiffs. The Tribune’s circulation is currently 37,118. How many of those good folks have ever read Friedman’s book? We are experienced enough to know that a statement that appears to be nonsense is much more likely to be a misquote or keyboarding error, than a really, really creative use of an everyday word.
When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

HK
February 15, 2011 4:01 pm

Juanslayton and others, I take back my earlier comment.
When I read Patzert’s quote “The main problem is that the earth is hot, flat and crowded” I assumed it was a reference to Friedman’s book “The World Is Flat”.
I now believe it to be a reference to Friedman’s follow-up book “Hot, Flat, and Crowded”. (http://www.thomaslfriedman.com/bookshelf/hot-flat-and-crowded-2)

eadler
February 15, 2011 5:08 pm

Charles Higley says:
February 13, 2011 at 9:40 pm
They should not blame food prices on global warming. Blame it on the idiots who think converting food into fuel is a good idea. Biofuels offer not net gain in anything except in wasting resources in terms of crops and cropland, decreasing milage, and destroying engines. Oh, and a few people make fortunes having been graced with huge funding to build biofuel factories and continuing subsidies to keep them afloat.
The 15% ethanol/gasoline was dictated to give those poor ethanol makers a boost in business, as those poor guys have suffered a decrease in demand with the recession. Heaven for bid that they should suffer like everybody else; the government is helping them out specifically over everybody else. How nice.
As the extreme environmentalists basically do not like people and also think that starvation and disease are acceptable means of decreasing population, they are fine with biofuels raising food prices.

This year’s food price spike is a result of bad weather causing a dent in supply. Another recent factor in reduced supply is the use of soybean oil and corn oil for fuel. This made stockpiles low so that the effect of bad weather was magnified. In addition there is hoarding by speculators.
It is wrong to blame the use of corn based ethanol on environmentalists. Most environmentalists agree that it is counter productive as an environmental measure, does nothing to help carbon emissions, and consumes more land for corn production that is destructive the environment. Everyone hates ethanol except the corn farmers and the distillers such as ADM, but they have won an extension of the tax credit for one year.
The current levels, set to expire December 31 of this year, include a 45-cents per gallon subsidy on ethanol production. For the taxpayer, that totals about $7 billion a year. On November 29, a mixed group of organizations sent a letter to congressional leadership, officially making their case against any extension.
The list included industry, environmental, and political groups like the American Meat Institute, the Oregon Dairy Farmers Association, the National Meat Association, Friends of the Earth, the World Wildlife Fund, the Sierra Club, FreedomWorks, the National Taxpayers Union, the Heartland Institute, and the Competitive Enterprise Institute. Even former Vice President Al Gore recently admitted his original support for the subsidies was a mistake.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2010/12/09/despite-strong-opposition-ethanol-subsidies-set-to-be-renewed-in-tax-deal/#ixzz1E4ydOOg5

Wayne Delbeke
February 15, 2011 11:37 pm

Tim Clark says:
February 14, 2011 at 9:24 am
Ulric Lyons says:
February 14, 2011 at 8:49 am
“the price of oil drives the movement of the index funds and pushes up the prices of agricultural commodities, no matter what is happening to the fundamentals of supply and demand for soybeans or corn.”
Couldn’t agree more, Ulric. …..
It’s called inflation. Get familiar with the concept because you’re about to see the hyper, supersized version.
Two things – Huge US International debt and 42 million people getting food stamps and growing every day. When do they and the millions of unemployed decide to march on Washington?
When 15 to 20% of the US population is having trouble putting food on their plates, I think there may be a problem.

Brian H
February 16, 2011 9:24 am

HK;
Yuck. That promo for Friedman’s “Hot, Flat, and Crowded 2.0” gives his new inspirational neologism: “Geo-Greenism”. Which he sez is the mandatory solution for all, starting with the US, of course.
When I think of Friedman, “Soylent-Greenism” is what comes to mind.

Beige Luciano-Adams
February 26, 2011 6:53 pm

Wait! hold the presses! you mean… the world is not flat?! Egyptian bread is subsidized!? U.S. presidents have supported Mubarak all this time!?
Just a heads up for people who may not know this — but we journalists do not always choose our own headlines. Mine was scrapped in editing for the one you read, which probably grabbed more readers but happens to undo the entire point – in part to question a current tendency to blame food shortages for political instability while perhaps ignoring the political economy of how food is produced, distributed and consumed. (or not). I wanted to take a deeper look at a twisted bundle of issues here and let experts have their say. I find that the emerging discourse about global warming + rising food prices + overpopulation that’s so popular right now often ignores why people are actually hungry – but not everyone agrees with that assessment – so the purpose of the article was to create a forum for these disparate strings and spark new dialogue. Hence, the offbeat critic of Malthusian logic facing off with Patzert’s politically tinged opining about weather and crowded Earth. By the way, I have lived and worked in Egypt (I’m well aware that their eish baladi is subsidized; it’s pretty good, too), and I know that Russian crop failures, with or without global warming, cannot explain away the more difficult reasons for such devastating poverty. That stuff rarely makes it to the news cycle. Instead, people are content to snack on superficial provocations about global warming and food shortages and attack each other.
This one made me laugh… For the guy who accused me of swallowing authoritarian tosh: you might consider that the issue is really not about the west subsidizing bread (via aid, as you say) so much as the neoliberal economic development policies that have made Egypt dependent on imported food.