By Steve Goddard
August 16, 2010 offered a great opportunity to put all the Arctic data together in a coherent picture. DMI showed a large drop in extent.
http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/icecover.uk.php
You can see the drop between August 15 and August 16 clearly in red in the modified NSIDC map below.
So what happened? Did 300,000 km2 of ice suddenly melt?
Not exactly. There were very strong winds pushing the ice in the Beaufort and Chukchi Seas towards the pole on August 15. This compacted the ice, reducing extent while increasing the average thickness.
You can see the August 15 movement of ice in Beaufort Sea in the satellite blink map below. Note how the ice edge is tightening up and compacting.
Will this continue? Probably not. The weather forecast calls for a return to colder and calmer weather in a couple of days. Look for the DMI graph to flatten out by the weekend.
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Stepping away from the political side and arguing a bit for an update, the 08/19 preliminary JAXA number is up for 2010 and shows a second day of below average loss. This brings up the current extent predictor for the final value to just a touch over 5e6 km^2. It’s nice to see two below-average days, but all they do is counteract the two days before that, and not even fully.
-Scott
David Gould says:
August 19, 2010 at 8:54 pm
David Gould
Catastrophic global warming. Temperatures have not risen anywhere near as fast as even Hansen’s most conservative predictions. Sea level rise has not accelerated.
It is time for some people to admit that they were wrong, and stop lying to themselves and the rest of us.
Okay. So you accept climate science is fine, but the conclusions drawn from that science are crap? Interesting.
David Gould
Do you believe that all climate scientists accept Hansen’s claims?
Even from the IPCC report, it is abundantly clear that there is a very wide range of ideas. But they are drowned out by politicians posing as scientists.
Steven, you said that bad politics masquerading as “science” behind global warming is the biggest bunch of cr@p you have ever seen. This implies (and I base this on the tone and content of all your other writings as well) that any science, any line of evidence, that is showing that AGW is real (which it isn’t), is becoming more discernible by the day (which it isn’t) and could turn out to be problematic on a socio-economic scale (which it won’t), must be fuelled by bad politics. And as most of climate science and all its related fields is showing that AGW is real, is becoming discernible, could be problematic, most of climate science must be cr@p…
And that’s also why I believe that you have no problem whatsoever justifying the means to reach your end – ie showing the many readers of WUWT that AGW is a hoax, something which they very much want to hear – because the other side is doing it too.
I base this for instance on the narrowed-down version of the situation in the Arctic you are feeding your readers in the Sea Ice News updates. Never a mention of satellite maps (or just a very small piece of the pack, like the ice off Barrow or the compaction in the Beaufort Sea) or high-resolution Uni Bremen or CT daily sea ice concentration maps that show the holes in the interior of the ice pack. Never a satellite image or mention of the Northwest Passage or the Northern Sea Route (except a cherry-picked quote about commercial shipping in the near future), or the multi-year ice transport through the Queen Elizabeth Islands. No mention of high-pressure areas and cyclones and weather forecast models that are showing whether the Beaufort Gyre and the Transpolar Drift Stream are in their positive phases or not. No, just PIPS ice thickness, CT low-resolution ice concentration comparison maps and the NSIDC extent maps.
The only motive I can think of for someone doing this is ‘the end justifies means, because AGW is a hoax, and the other side is lying about it as well’.
Günther
I mean exactly what I say. Please don’t try to psychoanalyze or read any other meanings in to it.
What “becomes more discernible by the day” is that Hansen vastly overestimated climate sensitivity.
Scott says:
August 19, 2010 at 3:09 pm
Regg_upnorth says:
August 19, 2010 at 1:07 pm
Hey, no prob…I just didn’t like the comment that a record would not need to be broken to reach 2008′s level when in fact it does. I’d agree with you that current extent cannot accurately predict the final minimum. And with weather uncertainty, nothing can really do that currently.
All it needs to do to reach 2008’s level is to match 2008 since on day 231 they’re essentially the same (2010 actually slightly lower). Given the state of the remaining ice that wouldn’t surprise me.
Gunther, your last paragraph is bunch of cherry picked stuff too. Talking about ice transport out of the Elizabeth Islands because the Fram Straight basically shut down for awhile? Give me a break.
In the end, sea ice has become a poster child for the AGW political agenda when it’s convenient. Right now it is the arctic. Back in the early 1990s and even late 1980s, most of the rant was about Antarctica. In 2007, we were presented with the “death spiral” quotes and “ice free arctic by 2013”. That is supposed to be taken at face value without any sort of actual investigation into the science? All those “experts” that picked 2008 to pass 2007? What are we to say to them?
I find it interesting that there is little talk on the PDO/AMO cycles in regards to arctic sea ice. All you hear about is AGW being the cause.
stevengoddard,
No, I do not believe that all scientists accept Hansen’s claims. But the vast majority accept:
1.) The earth is warming.
2.) Humans are causing it.
3.) It is going to cause us significant problems.
Hansen believes that ‘significant problems’ = ‘catastrophe’.
These are the conclusions of climate science. You do not think climate science is crap. Why do you reject its conclusions?
Marcia, Marcia says:
August 19, 2010 at 4:44 pm
Phil,
I asked you this in a post some weeks ago. I continued checking the comments until new comments stopped. You did not reply to me. I want to ask again:
Can you prove to me the Northwest Passage have never been open 4 years in a row before?
In all the time that it has been explored it has not been observed before.
I mean exactly what I say.
I know, but you are not saying everything you would say if you would want to present your readers with the whole story regarding the Arctic. And for that there are motives, perhaps hidden to yourself. But that’s okay, we have all that.
The only problem is, again, that this site has a lot of readers, and if you manage to convince enough people that AGW is a hoax, but it turns out isn’t a hoax…
And what’s more from the MODIS image posted previously it looks like the northern direct route is actually more than possible, in fact there is more open water there than in the more narrow passages to the south.
Günther, thanks very much with your link to the Norwegian circumnavigators. I think they may run out of time as they have a lot of ice to go around, but I hope they do it, it would be a fantastic achievement.
On a similar note:-
stevengoddard said
August 19, 2010 at 12:09 pm
Amazing what you can do with ice breakers in front of you, satellites, phones, planes helicopters, a climate controlled cabin and GPS navigation. Just like the Vikings.
_______________________
What did Oscar Wilde write? “A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing”. You just stick to blogging in your nice warm house where the only ice is in your G & T :p 🙂
You’ll probably respect the British marines more, they seem to be struggling against Northerly winds at the moment
http://www.arcticmariner.org/ ( Go to JOURNEY and then BLOG )
Andy
Phil. says:
August 19, 2010 at 9:38 pm
And 2008 was the record loss from here to the minimum, thus a record high loss would be required to reach 2008’w level. However, a record low loss is NOT required to reach 2009’s level (or even 2005’s). Thus, claiming that the race isn’t between 2010/2009 and is instead between 2010/2008 is silly.
And what data set are you using? I gave actual numbers and 2010 is higher than 2008 with those (JAXA). It’s also higher in NORSEX and DMI.
-Scott
Thrasher says:
August 19, 2010 at 9:43 pm
Gunther, your last paragraph is bunch of cherry picked stuff too. Talking about ice transport out of the Elizabeth Islands because the Fram Straight basically shut down for awhile? Give me a break.
The Fram strait is not shut down and the reason the QE islands flow is notable is because it doesn’t usually happen and it involves the thickest ice in the Arctic. That’s why the Canadian Ice service pointed it out in their recent biweekly reports. Shouldn’t forget the Nares strait either which didn’t have a blocking ice bridge this year (like 2007) and ice has been flowing out of there all summer.
David Gould
You said :
I accept that CO2 generated by mankind has increased average temperature by a minuscule amount. It is the details which matter, and the lack of quantitative accuracy is the Achilles heel of your argument.
That covers #1 and #2. Your claim #3 is nonsense. I don’t know any geologists who would agree with that statement. 31,000 scientists signed a petition saying otherwise.
Scott says:
August 19, 2010 at 10:39 pm
Phil. says:
August 19, 2010 at 9:38 pm
And 2008 was the record loss from here to the minimum, thus a record high loss would be required to reach 2008′w level. However, a record low loss is NOT required to reach 2009′s level (or even 2005′s). Thus, claiming that the race isn’t between 2010/2009 and is instead between 2010/2008 is silly.
You have a very strange idea about races, 2010/2008 are neck and neck and have been for some time, 2009 has been trailing for some time. When I run and coach track I consider that the two in the lead running side by side are the ones in the race not the guy who’s 50 yards behind and frankly it’s silly to think otherwise.
And what data set are you using? I gave actual numbers and 2010 is higher than 2008 with those (JAXA). It’s also higher in NORSEX and DMI.
I use JAXA
Day 231: 2010 5756406, 2008 5763594
What I said was:
“All it needs to do to reach 2008′s level is to match 2008 since on day 231 they’re essentially the same (2010 actually slightly lower). Given the state of the remaining ice that wouldn’t surprise me.”
Making a distinction between the two over the last couple of weeks seems ridiculous to me.
There are no routes through Arctic which do not encounter ice and poor weather.
http://ice-glaces.ec.gc.ca/Ice_Can/CMMBCTCA.gif
AJB says:
August 18, 2010 at 3:56 pm
View in order:
1. http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/730/febsept15day.png
2. http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/3205/augsept15day.png
3. http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/5853/augsep7day.png
_________________________________________________________________
Nice. It puts what is happening in the Arctic in perspective…. Nothing is really changing.
Governor Hunt??? as in North Carolina?
Global sea ice is above normal.
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/global.daily.ice.area.withtrend.jpg
The poles are (not) melting just as Hansen did (not) predict.
David Gould says:
August 19, 2010 at 5:38 pm
kakada,
We believe that it can be prevented. The point of the IPCC AR4 is that we are headed for serious trouble if we continue down the current path. If, however, we take steps to significantly reduce CO2 emissions then we can prevent that serious trouble. Thus, trying to convince those who are sceptical of this may be a worthwhile, although very difficult, endeavour.
________________________________________________
David,
Given that CO2 has a measurable influence on the global temperature, have you ever bothered to think about the other side of the argument?????
This what I mean.
Joe Romm over at Climate Progress states:
Absent human emissions, we’d probably be in a slow long-term cooling trend due primarily by changes in the Earth’s orbit — see Human-caused Arctic warming overtakes 2,000 years of natural cooling, “seminal” study finds.
When he speaks of changes in the Earth’s orbit he is talking about the Milankovitch cycles that ushers in ice ages.
This peer reviewed paper also agrees:
Lesson from the past: present insolation minimum holds potential for glacial inception (2007)
“Because the intensities of the 397 ka BP and present insolation minima are very similar, we conclude that under natural boundary conditions the present insolation minimum holds the potential to terminate the Holocene interglacial. Our findings support the Ruddiman hypothesis [Ruddiman, W., 2003. The Anthropogenic Greenhouse Era began thousands of years ago. Climate Change 61, 261–293], which proposes that early anthropogenic greenhouse gas emission prevented the inception of a glacial that would otherwise already have started….”
And so does this paper:
Temperature and precipitation history of the Arctic
“..Solar energy reached a summer maximum (9% higher than at present) ca 11 ka ago and has been decreasing since then, primarily in response to the precession of the equinoxes. The extra energy elevated early Holocene summer temperatures throughout the Arctic 1-3° C above 20th century averages, enough to completely melt many small glaciers throughout the Arctic, although the Greenland Ice Sheet was only slightly smaller than at present… As summer solar energy decreased in the second half of the Holocene, glaciers reestablished or advanced, sea ice expanded, and the flow of warm Atlantic water into the Arctic Ocean diminished. Late Holocene cooling reached its nadir during the Little Ice Age (about 1250-1850 AD), when sun-blocking volcanic eruptions and perhaps other causes added to the orbital cooling, allowing most Arctic glaciers to reach their maximum Holocene extent…”
The point I am trying to make was put very nicely in this article:
Abrupt Climate Change: Should We Be Worried? – Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
“Most of the studies and debates on potential climate change, along with its ecological and economic impacts, have focused on the ongoing buildup of industrial greenhouse gases in the atmosphere and a gradual increase in global temperatures. This line of thinking, however, fails to consider another potentially disruptive climate scenario. It ignores recent and rapidly advancing evidence that Earth’s climate repeatedly has shifted abruptly and dramatically in the past, and is capable of doing so in the future.
Fossil evidence clearly demonstrates that Earthvs climate can shift gears within a decade….
But the concept remains little known and scarcely appreciated in the wider community of scientists, economists, policy makers, and world political and business leaders. Thus, world leaders may be planning for climate scenarios of global warming that are opposite to what might actually occur…“
As far as I am concerned neglecting change towards a COOLING world is down right criminal negligence – my biggest gripe with CAGW.
So what if the sun has had more of an effect on the recent climate than is acknowledged by the IPCC, after all it IS a variable star and just recently even Dr. Lief Svalgaard acknowledged some of the recently held theories were wrong.
We now know that lately there have been changes in the sun:
During the last century the sun has been very active but with cycle 24 the sun has now gone into a long minimum with “unusual characteristic”s according to NASA and the Solar Dynamics Observatory Mission News
“We want to compare the sun’s brightness now to its brightness during previous minima and ask: is the sun getting brighter or dimmer?”
The answer seems to be dimmer. Measurements by a variety of spacecraft indicate a 12-year lessening of the sun’s “irradiance” by about 0.02% at visible wavelengths and 6% at EUV wavelengths.”
This is in contrast to what was happening in the solar cycles before cycle 24.
Solar activity reaches new high – Dec 2, 2003
” Geophysicists in Finland and Germany have calculated that the Sun is more magnetically active now than it has been for over a 1000 years. Ilya Usoskin and colleagues at the University of Oulu and the Max-Planck Institute for Aeronomy say that their technique – which relies on a radioactive dating technique – is the first direct quantitative reconstruction of solar activity based on physical, rather than statistical, models (I G Usoskin et al. 2003 Phys. Rev. Lett. 91 211101)
… the Finnish team was able to extend data on solar activity back to 850 AD. The researchers found that there has been a sharp increase in the number of sunspots since the beginning of the 20th century. They calculated that the average number was about 30 per year between 850 and 1900, and then increased to 60 between 1900 and 1944, and is now at its highest ever value of 76.
“We need to understand this unprecedented level of activity,” Usoskin told PhysicsWeb.”
There is also the changes in albedo from cloud cover as measured by the Earthshine Project
“…..The earthshine observations reveal a large decadal variability in the Earth’s reflectance [7], which is yet not fully understood, but which is in line with other satellite and ground-based global radiation data….”
Climate Scientists really do not actually know what is going to happen and the unhealthy focus on just one variable, CO2, could leave mankind unprepared for a very nasty surprise. This is especially true if we have a large volcanic eruption in the right place during a solar grand minimum, a cool ocean cycle and during the wrong point of the precession of the equinoxes.
Well David, have you ever even LOOKED at the other variables that effect climate and what it could mean to mankind’s future???
Steve, I do disagree with this statement “The poles are (not) melting as Hansen did (not) predict”
The Arctic sea ice in fact retreating faster than any climate models have been able to predict. This can mean several things that include factors such as: the models are not sensitive enough to GHG forcing or the models are not correctly modeling all the feedback processes. Certainly models that include the most sophisticated sea ice models do a better job, but even those don’t get the current decline right.
I have also disagreed all along that the sea ice is recovering. This year shows once again that isn’t true since in many ways we should have expected 2010 to not show as extensive ice loss as it has shown thus far given the larger fraction of older ice than seen the last couple of years and given an atmospheric circulation pattern during winter and summer that was more conducive to ice retention. Yet today the ice extent is at 5.66 million square kilometers with likely 3 more weeks of ice loss to go.
Günther Kirschbaum says:
August 19, 2010 at 6:57 pm
Steven, AGW is just one of many symptoms of an unsustainable society. I don’t see much use in a crusade denouncing all of climate science as a hoax or a big bunch of crap. The end effect of that is most probably that you are keeping the forces in place that perpetuate the unsustainable society.
_____________________________________________
First, none of us here at WUWT are interested in “soiling our nests”- most of us are conservationists.
You talk of “sustainability”. Do you KNOW what “sustainability” really is??? It is the code word for Global Governance and Agenda 21 Before you decide I am crazy please read the links.
Here is the context and history:
A key player is Maurice Strong:
Maurice Strong started in oil in the 1950’s working for the Rockefeller’s in Saudi Arabia and became CEO and president of Power Corporation, Petro-Canada and Ontario Hydro and others. He is on the board of trustees for the Rockefeller Foundation who funds Greenpeace and WWF, a senior adviser to the World Bank. He is also an acomplished conman with the Denver oil, AZL Resources, lawsuit, the Molten Metal Inc swindle involving Al Gore, tax payer money and the UN Food for Oil scandal After that scandal Strong escaped to Beijing China to escape questioning. Now he is a senior adviser to the Chinese government and also works for CH2M Hill, “an employee-owned, multinational firm providing engineering, construction, operations and related services…” [Sustainability, what sustainability…]
Here is the Global Warming tie in:
Climategate e-mail on Global Governance & Sustainable Development (B1)
Here is more on the (B1) scenario IPCC Emissions Scenarios
Here is who Ged Davis is (Shell Oil executive with IPCC connection) who wrote the B1 scenario.
Here is the start:
In Maurice Strong’s 1972 First Earth Summit speech, Strong warned urgently about global warming
Obama’s Chief Science Adviser is John Holden.’In their 1973 book “Human Ecology: Problems and Solutions,” Holdren and co-authors Paul and Anne Ehrlich wrote:
“A massive campaign [read global warming] must be launched to restore a high-quality environment in North America and to de-develop the United States. De-devolopment means bringing our economic system (especially patterns of consumption) into line with the realities of ecology and the global resource situation. Resources and energy must be diverted from frivolous and wasteful uses in overdeveloped countries to filling the genuine needs of underdeveloped countries.”
“The need for de-development presents our economists with a major challenge,” they wrote. “They must design a stable, low-consumption economy in which there is a much more equitable distribution of wealth than the present one. Redistribution of wealth both within and among nations is absolutely essential, if a decent life is to be provided for every human being.””
The de-development plan is UN Division for Sustainable Development – full text of Agenda 21
UN REFORM – Restructuring for Global Governance
Our Global Neighborhood – Report of the Commission on Global Governance: a summary analysis
a lot of research and links about Agenda 21 in the USA
Despite the finger pointing by Greenpeace, it is the Big Oil companies (and banks), David Rockefeller, Maurice Strong and Shell who are behind CAGW.
In Sept. 14, 1994 David Rockefeller, speaking at the UN Business Council,.
“This present window of opportunity, during which a truly peaceful and interdependent world order might be built, will not be open for too long – We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order.”
Rockefeller also stated “…the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries.”
YOU may want a world government by non-elected bankers, corporate CEOs and oilmen, I do not.
Julienne
Polar sea ice is above the 30 year mean. According to Hansen there should be symmetrical ice loss at both poles. Clearly that is not happening.
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/effects/downloads/Challenge_chapter2.pdf
Figure 2-4
Julienne,
Looks to me like summer 2010 will finish well above 2007, and that the NSIDC official prediction is too low.