I was in Newcastle, NSW AU on Wednesday night to give another lecture as part of the Australian speaking tour I’m doing. I had the pleasure of following David Stockwell in a presentation, and David Archibald followed me.
We were a bit late getting there due to airplane scheduling snafus, and as we rushed from the airport at 6:15 pm we passed the coal loading terminal at Newcastle. There, as if there was some madcap attempt at sustainability, was one of those huge wind turbines like I’ve seen on the US plains. I attempted to get a photo, but my camera misfired with bad focus due to the car window, and I missed the shot.
The next morning, on the way to the airport again at 6AM, the windmill was still there, just like it was before. My driver (Anthony#2 of Team Anthony) gladly pulled over to allow me to get this shot as dawn crept in. I was incredulous that the shot hadn’t changed.
Ummm. I thought windmills were all about generating electricity, not using it. So why put torches on it that run all night? Want to bet the lighting power is coming from coal? While the turbine probably generates more power than it uses most nights, it sure seems odd.
Of course, maybe the people that run it really didn’t want a wind turbine in their coal town, and this torch lighting is their form of silent protest. Or, maybe they are proud of it and felt it needed to be illuminated all hours of the night. Maybe the lights are to warn off birds and small planes. Nobody seemed to know. Whatever the reason, I couldn’t help but be amused.
I don’t wish to demean the proud hard working people in Newcastle in any way, I just thought this was very odd and worth noting. Thanks to everyone who attended our talk. A special thank you to the two protesters handing out flyers at the city hall telling everyone how wrong we are.
Too bad you didn’t stick around to see what you were protesting about, you might have found it interesting. The flyers handed out were obviously written without the benefit of knowing what was being presented that night. Kids, do your homework.
Here is what the Newcastle wind turbine looks like during the day, note the coal terminal in the background.
From the Newcastle City Photos Blog:
Newcastle’s only big wind turbine seems to be reaching up to the sky for the breezes to keep the city running during the approaching night! Is this the future of energy, ‘free’ renewable and non polluting. For a city which has been based on technology we are slow to move on from the old coal based power structure. People want their power but what is the cost? Later generations will have to put up with the results of our excessive use and pollution it causes.
Background on Newcastle from Hunter Valley Eguide:
Newcastle lies approximately 160 kilometres north of Sydney. Newcastle is the seventh largest city in Australia and is the largest city which is not a state or federal capital. It has a population of approximately 300,000. Newcastle was founded on 30th March 1804 as a penal settlement, so has a selection of buildings old by Australian standards, as well as beaches, surf, impressive coastal scenery, bushland and a well-known lake. It is also an important port, especially for the export of coal, of which resource some 70 million tonnes passes through the city annually.
Thanks to Anthony, Sue and many others who helped out in Newcastle. On behalf of David Stockwell, David Archibald, and myself, I thank you for your hospitality and efforts.
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In Ontario they have spent billions on wind farms and are now up to 1,100 MW of capacity (compared to a total demand of over 18,000 MW). But the interesting part is that you can see how much electricity they are actually generating at any given time – right now it’s sitting at about 80 MW!
http://www.ieso.ca/imoweb/marketdata/windpower.asp
C’mon, you all know the deal, greenies are all about needing the ego stroke from showing the world how eco conscious and morally superior they are. The main reason the Prius sells better than other hybrids is that the other cars are hybrid versions of a normal car, the Prius is a dedicated hybrid only model. If you were to drive a Fusion hybrid, lord, heaven forbid, someone might actually think you didn’t care about the polar bears and were driving a regular old gasoline powered baby seal killing car. Same thing here, we have to show the world how green our windmill is.
Another craziness, this time of the decade:
Australian-US study finds oceans ‘choking’ on greenhouse gases
*Ove Hoegh-Guldberg
http://www.radioaustralianews.net.au/stories/201006/2931322.htm?desktop
Anthony:
Once again, excellent stuff. Any chance you could put a PDF of the protester’s handout? Just curious as to what they are writing over there.
All the best
The Columbia Gorge, home of many water control and energy generating facilities, has been overrun by the damnable things. Once scenic, it is now beginning to look like a porcupine on each side of the river. In the high plains near the Snake and Columbia, the same thing is occurring high on the palouse mounds where the wind does indeed blow about.
Might it be that one day there will be enough windmills to allow the power generating dams to be removed (yeh, I know, won’t happen but some people are thinking it will)? Downtown Portland oughta love the idea. Since the populace there is largely responsible for voting in Oregon political idiots, I am perfectly willing to let the rivers back into their old meandering, bank full, swampy courses through that city. I live in NE Oregon and will remain so, at 3500 feet above sea level and have no intention of buying property near a river. Only stupid people do that.
Power generating dams, once removed, will cause such a productivity and economic slide that it is a fair bet the US will not recover from it, and so weakened, will be sold to any country so inclined to offer coinage.
BTW, my light beverage I am drinking right now is filled up with greenhouse gases and it’s delicious and it didn’t choke me.
My post disappeared!
Sorry, no it didn’t. Must have more coffee.
Any chance Anthony of posting your Australian lecture so that we can all enjoy it?
That is an interesting adornment that city hall has commissioned, with the evening light appropriate to publicly funded abstract modern metal sculptures we all love so much and can’t get enough of.
At least it is not sited where it is chopping birds in half, falling on people’s heads when the blades come off, or accosting the aesthetic sensibilities of innocent passersby in some peaceful downtown park. Who knows what silly program they cut in order to have that Picasso twittering machine, probably some old rediculous program assisting homeschooling families with getting private tutors in Latin or cello.
In Portland yesterday I saw three very tall wind turbines–on top of a many story building! Now that is reckless endangerment.
A closer, fluid dynamic and thermodynamic look at wind turbines shows two possible local climate effects, depending on the siting.
On land the reduction in wind speed downstream of the turbine (as a result of the extraction of kinetic energy by the turbines) reduces air mass flow rates and increases surface temperature. Surface moisture evaporates more easily at higher temperature, but the evaporative increase is offset somewhat by the lower air speeds.
On water, the reduction in downstream speed also increases surface temperature; with the effect of increased evaporation. Moreover, the downstream turbulence provides sufficient localised energy and droplet/salt generation from blown surface water to promote condensation of water vapour, leading to greater precipitation downstream with prevailing winds. If the wind farms is far enough offshore, it reduces the rainfall on land; and at least causes rain to fall closer to shore; perhaps away from arable land.
So wind farms directly cause warming and drought. i.e. Produce climate change.
…now where’s the emoticon for tongue partly in cheek?
Gaia mocking the greens:
Gulf oil full of methane, adding new concerns
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100618/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gulf_oil_spill
The wind turbine is an icon for carbon indulgences. If the guilt feelings return, they can erect another and feel some more of the green virtue flowing.
Bernd Felsche says:
June 18, 2010 at 8:51 am
Don’t worry, chances are windmills won’t run on air but methane (see above)
When you do your thing at Adelaide, bring these pictures and ask Barrie Harrop to comment on them.
With respect to Richard S Courtney (June 18, 2010 at 4:06 am), I would like to add the following conjecture: Someone once told me that they believed the Great Wall of China was built to control commerce so taxes could be reliably collected.
Having been a processional civil engineer since 1967, retired now, at first engineering economics were very important in making decisions as to what would and what would not be constructed at taxpayer expense. It is not an easy thing to do, to determine what all of the costs are and will be, and to determine quantities and values of what the benefits would be. But we engineers certainly, then, did our best to do so. All benefit/cost ratios were of course, best estimates.
Over time, I have seen the costs and future costs substantially and purposely far underestimated to promote construction and spend taxpayer money on various and myriad projects, and have seen the estimates of benefits grossly exaggerated and include the most nebulous and completely contrived “benefits”. I personally have no confidence whatsoever in either as of now. Civil engineers have themselves become part of the slight of hand political show.
We, as a civilization, have apparently decided en masse that real economics aren’t at all important, that we can somehow have anything and everything we wish for without actually paying the costs thereof, and that it will take only political agreement and consumer confidence to achieve it.
IMHO, this absolute foolishness will cause, and is causing, the destruction of what is called “western civilization” and in not all that much more time All previous civilizations have fallen, sometimes as a result of natural disasters, and a good many from simple human hubris.
We are not immune to either.
I may sound like a Cassandra, but Cassandra’s predictions proved to be right on spot.
And here I am, once civil engineer now turned philosophical. Life has been good to me.
Phillip Bratby says:
June 18, 2010 at 4:18 am
That seems to be a high number. I would expect it to be about half that. A 1mW turbine at a 40mph design speed would have a 15kW overhead. Higher if the design speed is lower.
Several years ago I began planning what I expected to be my retirement home. (Life has a way of disrupting plans) For electricity, I would have had to pay the electric company for fifty poles and two transformers to branch off the single ended line ten miles out from the source. I felt a backup plan was needed, and looked into solar and wind. Solar, at the time, was ridiculously expensive, so I settled on a wind turbine plus battery solution.
Some things I learned:
The efficient design wind speed is about twice the average. Thus 10mph avg; 20mph design speed.
The power capacity is proportional to the swept area of the turbine.
The turbine must be in the laminar flow; above the turbulence caused by ground effect, including those trees, outbuildings, and that 1000ft ridge a mile upwind.
Winds above the design speed provide zero additional energy.
Winds below the threshold speed (5mph for the common homestead design) provide zero energy, period.
Energy is proportional to the cube of the wind velocity. That turbine, on average, provides only ⅛ its rated power. The rule of thumb says you get an output of three hours (⅛ of a day) full capacity per average day.
All things considered, wind turbines are an especially expensive way to capture energy. Today’s turbine designs approach closely the theoretical limits of efficiency, and still the best you can expect is 12.5% of the rated capacity.
Bernd suggests: “So wind farms directly cause warming and drought. i.e. Produce climate change. ”
This is something I had been thinking about. Energy has to come from somewhere, so windmills must take energy from the environment and reduce wind speed. In some locations, towns in valleys being the obvious example, putting windmills on the surrounding hills must reduce air movement making it hotter, but more importantly preventing pollutants and particulates being cleared so quickly which will reduce air quality and affect anyone with breathing problems. So windfarms are bad for asthmatics.
I think I can have a guess. Look at the picture of the wind turbine at night again. Now go find a picture of the Washington Monument at night. Now go find a picture of the Lincoln Memorial at night. Now go find a picture of Christ the Redeemer in Rio at night. Now go find a picture of L’Arc de Triomphe at night. Now go find a picture of St Peter’s Basilica at night. All objects that the viewer is expected to respect if not venerate in an overtly religious way.
Now look at the wind turbine again.
See?
@richard Courtney,
“If it were their purpose then they would not be built because no wind turbine provides any useful electricity to a grid at any time.”
Actually, wind-turbines work quite well where the wind blows. The technology works.
http://www.caiso.com/green/renewrpt/DailyRenewablesWatch.pdf
@ur momisugly Gary Turner, re wind turbine capacity factor. Please see the link below, in particular pages 12 and 13. As the Tables show, the highest capacity factor for an entire calendar quarter was 72 percent in 1998 for the San Gorgonio location. The average for all California was 14.3 percent over the seven-year period of the study.
The key is location.
http://www.energy.ca.gov/2005publications/CEC-500-2005-185/CEC-500-2005-185.PDF
LarryOldtimer says:
June 18, 2010 at 11:36 am
And here I am, once civil engineer now turned philosophical. Life has been good to me.
The turn of the screw…is inexorable
♫♫♫……………….
Round, like a circle in a spiral
Like a wheel within a wheel.
Never ending or beginning,
On an ever spinning wheel
Like a snowball down a mountain
Or a carnaval balloon
Like a carousell that’s turning
Running rings around the moon
Like a clock whose hands are sweeping
Past the minutes on it’s face
And the world is like an apple
Whirling silently in space
Like the circles that you find
In the windmills of your mind
Like a tunnel that you follow
To a tunnel of it’s own
Down a hollow to a cavern
Where the sun has never shone
Like a door that keeps revolving
In a half forgotten dream
Or the ripples from a pebble
Someone tosses in a stream.
Like a clock whose hands are sweeping
Past the minutes on it’s face
And the world is like an apple
Whirling silently in space
Like the circles that you find
In the windmills of your mind
Keys that jingle in your pocket
Words that jangle your head
Why did summer go so quickly
Was it something that I said
Lovers walking allong the shore,
Leave their footprints in the sand
Was the sound of distant drumming
Just the fingers of your hand
Pictures hanging in a hallway
And a fragment of this song
Half remembered names and faces
But to whom do they belong
When you knew that it was over
Were you suddenly aware
That the autumn leaves were turning
To the color of her hair
Like a circle in a spiral
Like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning,
On an ever spinning wheel
As the images unwind
Like the circle that you find
In the windmills of your mind
Pictures hanging in a hallway
And the fragment of this song
Half remembered names and faces
But to whom do they belong
When you knew that it was over
Were you suddenly aware
That the autumn leaves were turning
To the color of her hair
Like a circle in a spiral
Like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning,
On an ever spinning wheel
As the images unwind
Like the circles that you find
In the windmills of your mind
………………………………………♫♫♫
I can see that these bat-whackers, like TV towers, would be a hazard to air traffic at night. But I’d guess a simple 10W red light at the tip of each blade would make it plenty visible to airplanes.