Heh, this is entertaining.
While Bill Nye argues for “in whose best interest is denial?” and brings up the ridiculous CO2 on Venus argument, Joe Bastardi runs circles around him with technical graphs and explanations on forcing factors and their magnitudes.
Warmists scream “weather is not climate!”. We need to shout back “Venus is not Earth!” since the Venusian atmosphere is entirely different in compositions and forcings, and we understand it far less than Earth’s.
Meanwhile, Bill O”Reilly seems more concerned about making his commercial break on time than saving the planet.
Nye needs a better argument, as Fox News viewers can see past the appeal to emotion. Bastardi while far more technically competent than Nye, needs to focus on explaining a bit about natural cycles, since few viewers would know what the “PDO” is.
A caveat for both men, doing live TV debate by the seat of your pants is tough. You can’t see each other, and you are communicating via earpiece audio. Live TV is never easy, live via satellite interlinks is even tougher.
Watch the segment => here.
h/t to WUWT reader “pwl”
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You have a funny way of hiding your links.All TV hosts have to make sure they don’t cut into advertising,it pays their wages.I couldn’t watch the segment,probably something missing on my computer.Did Bill Nye trot out that old people don’t understand the science like he did on that awful Maddow show(she talked to the viewers like they were children).It had nothing to do with old people experiencing the extremes in weather over their lifetime,no,they’re too dumb to understand the science.Nasty man.
Classic…
Actually, Joe was pretty reserved compared to what he writes in his Blog, and on the Video’s he releases to his private clients.
Jack
“Bill Nye the Junk Science Guy”
It’s debatable whose silly science is worse, Bill Nye’s or Al Gore’s.
I was wishing I could whisper in Joe’s ear, “Commercial greenhouses pump that trace gas up to 1000 ppm” when Bill Nye was trying to pin him down.
They should have devoted two segments to this important debate, then I’m sure Joe would have explained natural cycles and PDO.
Maybe had time to touch on subjects like these…
http://www.intellicast.com/Community/Content.aspx?a=222
The last few years, the media ignored the snow that set all-time records further north in much of western and southern Canada, Washington, Oregon, Colorado, Iowa, North Dakota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine and overseas in Europe, south China, Middle East, South America and New Zealand. But when it falls in the normally bare ground Mid-Atlantic and especially in the capitol where the politicians, environmental NGO and alternative energy lobby calls home, it can no longer be ignored. Especially on a day when NOAA had planned a press release on their new Climate Service, which had to be done via a phone teleconference.
So the green media and alarmists spin the tale that these storms are what you expect during global warming. Actually friends they conflict with statements from the IPCC and EPA Technical Support Document that drew on the NOAA CCSP.
EPA TSD ES3 “Rising temperatures have generally resulted in rain rather than snow in locations and seasons where climatological average (1961–1990) temperatures were close to 0°C. (32F).
IPCC FAQ 3.2 Observations show that changes are occurring in the amount, intensity, frequency and type of precipitation. More precipitation now falls as rain rather than snow in northern regions.
For a future warmer climate, models project a 50 to 100% decline in the frequency of cold air outbreaks relative to the present in NH winters in most areas. The 2009 U.S. Climate Impacts Report found that “large-scale cold-weather storm systems have gradually tracked to the north in the U.S. over the past 50 years.”
A DOSE OF REALITY …
You probably predict the record setting rest of this…
I love that Nye pulls out the picture of steam to show off proof of Global Warming again.
A very big contrast between the merits. Bill Nye seems to be saying all the same stuff all the time, based on authorities and statements known to be wrong. He seems identical to his embarrassing TV encounter with Richard Lindzen a few years ago.
I would have problems with Bastardi’s statements, too – like Venus 10 billion years ago. 😉
I’ve always liked Bill O’Reilly, and found him both sensible & honest and entertaining. That’s why I was kind of surprised that he wasn’t a full-fledged climate skeptic – but there were a couple of people like that where the expected skepticism didn’t materialize, so I wouldn’t have thrown Bill O’Reilly away because of that.
Cheers
LM
I saw a portion of the debate, though I was not following it. When Nye opened with a pompous citation of the planet Venus being surrounded by an atmosphere of carbon dioxide and manifesting torrid temperatures, I knew then he was a stuffed shirt and an empty suit (to mangle a metaphor). I studied that problem as a grad student. Venus is significantly closer to the sun than Earth; the solar constant is therefore much higher. And the atmosphere of Venus is radiatively thick (nearly opaque), wheras the atmosphere of Earth is radiatively thin (transparent). Venus is effectively heated by conduction of the upper layers of the atmosphere downwards, and it wouldn’t matter what the atmospheric composition was, so long as it was radiatively thick. Bastardi, not being an astronomer-physicist was ill-prepared to declare Nye’s argument a fallacious red herring, even though it was.
I didn’t watch long enough to arrive at any conclusion as to who had the stronger popular presentation. Bastardi, fortunately, seemed to have facts at his fingertips. O’Reilly, sadly, postures as a modern Know-Nothing, who opines from his self-styled Mount Olympus that global warming must be real, but has no authentic understanding of any of the science—notwithstanding my approval of his general treatment of current events.
We owe great thanks to those (such as Anthony Watts) who diligently compile the arguments on all sides of this issue. It is clear that the AGW case has been furthered by a collusion of lies, secrecy, and corrupt process. Truth must be spoken.
It does seem that the official spin that all true believers have been apparently instructed to use in debates is the “Who’s funding this lot, OMG it’s Big Oil and Big Tobacco, they’re all evil !” Rather too many recent interviews & articles hew so closely to this line it is sometimes hard to think it is a coincidence. Of course one has to then been so utterly dishonest to ignore the fact that BP, Exxon, and Shell are pumping far more money into the alarmist camp than elsewhere. That’s what strikes me about so many of the alarmist defenders, their dfeeply dishonest posturing.
Damn it, perview is my friend, …deeply dishonest…”
Joe was probably a bit too technical for most viewers, but was clearly the most confident and comfortable of the two. While not using the denier label, Nye came close and didn’t come across very well with it. And yeah, what was he trying to do using Venus?
Joe Bastardi and Marc Morano should form a tag team.
They can both be very animated and are fun to watch.
Good job Joe. Original work versus IPCCphone App.
Once again, this just illustrates why we shouldn’t trust men who wear bow ties. Bill Nye is not a science guy, he is the IPCC’s official cheerleader and not a very good one at that.
I can’t believe I grew up watching that idiot on Nickelodeon back in the 80s/90s. His show was sandwiched in between “You Can’t Do That on Television” and “Double Dare”. These shows were extremely popular because they featured unsuspecting kids getting “slimed” by buckets of green slime. Sort of a case of art imitating life in the not-too-distant-future:
How can this guy argue Venus’ temperature has anything to do with Earth’s temperature and say he is a real scientist?
1. Venus’ atmosphere is 96.5% (965,000ppm) carbon dioxide, Earth’s is 0.038% (380ppm) -2,539 times greater.
2. Venus’ atmosphere is 92 times denser than Earth’s.
3. Venus is much closer to the sun – 67 million miles, as opposed to 93 million miles.
Of course, Venus is very much hotter than Earth, it has an average temperature of 467 degrees C.
PajamasMedia are on the case: Their “spoof” even hooks in the Venus story
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/an-interview-with-dr-manfred-aufgeblasener-schwatzer-climate-scientist/?singlepage=true
It’s getting harder to distinguish the spoofs from the “real” interviews.
What is this telling us?
The argument for Global Warming comes back to the flawed political science put out by the IPCC it’s not even a contest!. End this political grab for your life savings and tell the bankers and lairs go screw yourselves!.
Isn’t CO2 a colorless gas? So how can NYE compare ink in Water to CO2? And isn’t a day on Venus 342 earth days? Imagine Death Valley if one day lasted 342 days?
The only thing Bill Nye could do to be taken serious is to loose the dickie bow & suit and dress up in a cheer leaders outfit. Yep, he is a role model for the era of alarmism and we should encourage him more. Not many dinosaurs like him left. Everytime he opens his mouth he makes more people sceptical.
Bill Nye, the IPCC guy. Bill better be careful who he references or his stature as a television celebrity could be in jeopardy.
Remember, when your position is weak.
1. Exaggerate the problem.
2. Attack the messenger not the message.
3. Redirect the debate.
4. Lie.
5. Run away.
6. Hide
Right now it looks like most of the believers are generally hovering between 2 and 3.
Bill Nye seems to be a bit behind the curve, he is still stuck between 1 and 2.
Al Gore and David Suzuki seem to have gone through the whole list rather quickly; perhaps because they started earlier.
I’m always bemused when Venus is used as an Earth comparison, I couldn’t see the linked video, but was it also mentioned that Venus has a solar day of about 150 Earth days and that it has no seas and no tectonic plate movement? Combined with every other Earth/Venus difference, it seems like a red flag to me when the only factor mentioned is the CO2 concentration, it’s as if they were trying to simplify and hide something, now where have I heard that before;)
The point is that every litre of atmosphere on Venus has 233,588 times the amount of carbon dioxide of a litre of air on Earth.
Bad science at its best!!
I am glad this made WUWT. I watched this and was literally screaming at the TV when Bill Nye cited Venus as his “test case” for global warming. As a science educator, I had always held a lot of respect for Bill Nye getting kids interested in science. After tonight, I feel like the kid who just learned Santa Claus is not a real person. So, I looked up who this guy really is – he is a mechanical engineer (B.S.) who applied to NASA repeatedly and never got in. Maybe this is a last ditch effort to join NASA/GISS by supporting the company line?
Slightly OT, but as a science educator at a two-year college, we (science educators) are not very good at teaching our students about the profession of science. It was clear to me that Mr. Nye does not understand peer-review, the scientific method, reproducing others work, and most importantly – being a SKEPTIC!!!
I always thought that Venus being 26 million miles closer to the sun than Earth might have something to do with the differences between the two worlds. But then proximity to a ball of fusion flame 865,000 miles in diameter couldn’t possibly match up to the supernatural power of CO2.
[snip]
A search for Venus temperature at 1bar will bring up a figure comparable with Earth’s taking into consideration insolation at that distance, and lod, alternatively, taking dry air lapse rate and increasing depth of troposhere on Earth to that of Venus it comes out to 756K°, very close again, with no extra CO2 involved, ie. CO2 greenhouse is negligible.