The Guardian Relocates The North Pole By 500km

By Steven Goddard
The Catlin crew was picked up this week, after completing less than 50% of their planned journey to the North Pole and coming up about 500km short.  Immediately upon their return, The Guardian reported :

After 73 days, the Catlin Arctic Survey has come to an end. Pen Hadow’s team of British Arctic explorers have battled to the North Pole through freezing conditions collecting data about the ice en route.

This reminds me of the legend of “bringing the mountain to Mohammed.”  The crew reported traveling over 400km, a non-trivial percentage of which was due to floating along with the Arctic drift. See this map of Arctic buoys and their drift patterns:
Polar drift map over the last 60 days.
Given the polar drift, one has to wonder how much ice was actually traversed, and how many measurements were taken near the same spot on the first year ice.  The Catlin Crew reported in The Telegraph :

Arctic explorer Pen Hadow has warned that the polar ice cap he has been examining to gauge the extent of climate change appears far thinner than expected after trekking more than 250 miles to the North Pole

Expedition Leader Pen Hadow revealed that initial Survey results show the average ice thickness in the region to be 1.774m.

1.774m is fairly thick for first year ice (and requires a very accurate tape measure.)  They started their expedition in March on ice which NSIDC had already identified in February as first year ice – so why were they surprised to find first year ice?
The NSIDC February map showed multi-year ice as shades of red and orange, and their start point (red dot) was more than 100km away from the edge of the multi-year ice.  The crew also reported that their data is biased by a pragmatic choice of route across flat (first year) ice.

One further consideration, when interpreting the ice thickness measurements made by the CAS team, is navigational bias. The team systematically seeks out flatter ice because it is easier to travel over and camp on.

According to the Catlin web site, there was plenty of second year ice – but apparently the cold weather and lack of progress kept them from reaching it.  Note in the map below that second year ice (SY) is not considered multi-year (MY) ice.  The AGW world has recently redefined the word “multi-year” as meaning greater than two years.  (Next year it may need to be defined as greater than three years.)
.
Backscatter radar image showing 1st, 2nd and Mulityear ice from NOAA
In summary :
  1. Due to horrifically cold weather, hypothermia and frostbite, they made it less than half way to the pole.
  2. Some of the distance they did travel was due to polar drift.  They reported crossing the 85th parallel “in their sleep.”
  3. They started on ice which was already known to be first year ice, yet were “surprised” to find that it was first year ice.
  4. They stayed on first year ice for most of the truncated journey.
  5. Their ice measurements tell us that the first year ice this year is fairly thick.
  6. Their ice measurements tell us very little or about the thickness or “health” of multi-year ice.
  7. They will no doubt get an invite to St. James Palace for tea with Prince Charles
https://i2.wp.com/www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/seaice/extent/AMSRE_Sea_Ice_Extent.png
May, 2009 shows the greatest ice extent in the AMSR-E record, which seems to contradict Hadow’s highly publicised remarks about Arctic ice health.
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197 thoughts on “The Guardian Relocates The North Pole By 500km

  1. So – I went to the Guardian website and read their article – and they do not say the Catlin team was picked up at the North Pole. Indeed, the article clearly says they are being picked up 490 Km short of the Pole.

    So – do you regularly make up quotes on the assumption that your readers will not check?

    NwCitizen writers have been following your stuff – and have been impressed to a point. Perhaps we need to keep track of you as you supposedly – read pretend – to keep track of the envoro’s press. Hello.

  2. I’ll be sure to be the first to inform my geography class of the new position of the North Pole. Thanks for the update.

  3. There’s also a rather good summary of Catlin at American Thinker titled, The Catlin Ice Follies.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/the_catlin_ice_follies.htm

    Yet, in what passes for journalism today, the brain numb communication majors, having mastered the challenging task of reading, proudly display their accomplishment by dutifully reading press releases handed them by advocacy groups. Theirs is not to think, to check facts, to look behind the curtain and see all the shenanigans happening there. So now, across the land these light headed talking heads solemnly pontificate on the great heroic adventure that was Catlin. From them you will never hear of the flight over the Arctic that covered more area in 30 days than Catlin did in 73 days and found ice much thicker than expected.

    Remember everyone – let’s all stay on message and let’s not get distracted by any such foolishness as facts.

    ** ** **

    This was all just a PR stunt leading up to Copenhagen. As I’ve mentioned before, there’s still that inconenient moment in September when the ice melt turns out to be less than the last two years. Bet the media manages to be silent about that off message fact.

  4. It is pretty clear that we disregard the Catlin ice measurements. They have shown there is no reason to expect objective, honest science out of them.

    I’ve got the May 15, 2009 – day 135 NH sea ice extent at 287,000 km^2 (2.2%) below the average of 1979 to 2008.

    This is an interesting period now because the ice melt slows down a little at this time of year and then speeds up again around the solstice on June 21st.

  5. “So – I went to the Guardian website and read their article – and they do not say the Catlin team was picked up at the North Pole. Indeed, the article clearly says they are being picked up 490 Km short of the Pole. ”

    John Servais, I can confirm that you are wrong.

    They state, as Anthony says, “After 73 days, the Catlin Arctic Survey has come to an end. Pen Hadow’s team of British Arctic explorers have battled to the North Pole through freezing conditions collecting data about the ice en route.”

    Direct quote. I have screenshots as well.

  6. John Servais,

    I’m assuming that you know how to follow hyperlinks in the article. The last word in the first paragraph has a link to this quote:

    After 73 days, the Catlin Arctic Survey has come to an end. Pen Hadow’s team of British Arctic explorers have battled to the North Pole through freezing conditions collecting data about the ice en route.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/gallery/2009/mar/24/catlin-arctic-survey-arctic?picture=347364812

    So before you accuse others of “making up quotes” I suggest you beef up your Internet skills a bit.

  7. John

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/gallery/2009/mar/24/catlin-arctic-survey-arctic?picture=347364812

    “Pen Hadow’s team of British Arctic explorers have battled to the North Pole ”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthpicturegalleries/5323888/The-Catlin-Arctic-Survey-led-by-Pen-Hadow-finds-the-polar-ice-cap-is-thinner.html

    “250 miles to the North Pole ”

    Hello

    It is sloppy, imprecise writing, but then again, everything about this “expedition” has been sloppy and imprecise.

  8. Do you perhaps have reading anomaly?
    “After 73 days, the Catlin Arctic Survey has come to an end. Pen Hadow’s team of British Arctic explorers have battled to the North Pole through freezing conditions collecting data about the ice en route.”
    That statement from the ‘Guardian’ implies they reached the North Pole.

  9. Steven, we need to add another point to your summary:

    8. The Catlin Arctic Survey did not result in any useful information.

    Is there a “GPS report” of this PR stunt across the Arctic ice? I think an examination of their distance traveled while idle in their tents (due to ice drift), as a fraction of total distance would be interesting.

    Is there a report yet of the results of the German team that “scooped” the Catlin survey available? https://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/04/28/inconvenient-eisdicken/#more-7406

  10. John Servais (16:58:28) :
    You didnt see this quote? What does ” having battled to the north pole imply? That they got within 490 km?

    Direct quote from the Guardian link (Shows up when you scroll over the picture)
    “Pen Hadow’s team of British Arctic explorers have battled to the North Pole through freezing conditions collecting data about the ice en route.” ‘

    Yes, it’s not in the article, but nevertheless is originated by the Guardian.

    You alarmists can only nitpick, while you spew out massive garbage. The big lie concept was working for a while.

    Congratulations on being first to comment. You guys must have a really efficient robot scanning WUWT.

  11. John Servais – sorry, you have it wrong. I followed the link provided in Steven’s story and there it was, a block of text over a photo of the 3 climate pilgrims, stating:

    After 73 days, the Catlin Arctic Survey has come to an end. Pen Hadow’s team of British Arctic explorers have battled to the North Pole through freezing conditions collecting data about the ice en route. The Guardian has been following the expedition’s progress with images, audio, video and blogs sent back by the team. You can find full coverage here.

    Steven, I would suggest you screen capture that (if you haven’t already done so) and include in an update to this terrific (and utterly hilarious) post. Once the folks at the Guardian realize their goof, it may get air-brushed without comment. This sort of idiocy simply must be captured for posterity.

  12. @John Servis

    Ya know, John? I just have to assume you’re a first-timer on Anthony’s Blog.

    If you’d spent any time here, you’d know that Anthony is concerned with scientific fact presented for his readers’ perusal and is open to polite discussion of the facts.

    Your snide comment is rather jarring and I must assume you haven’t taken the time to study the volumes of material presented in this award-winning blog.

    I went to the link that Anthony provided and easily found the quote that Anthony referenced. It’s the caption on the picture and it states that ‘ . . . . British Arctic explorers have battled to the North Pole . . ..”

    Now THAT is misleading reportage.

    Since you’re such a crusader for truth-in-reporting, why don’t you skip on over to the Catlin/Guardian love fest and pee on their parade.

  13. John Servais (16:58:28) :
    So – I went to the Guardian website and read their article – and they do not say the Catlin team was picked up at the North Pole.

    So – do you regularly make up quotes on the assumption that your readers will not check?

    Do you regularly twist what others say? Steve didn’t say the Guardian reported they were picked up at the North Pole.

    Here is the quote from the Guardian online that pops up in an inset with the picture of the three intrepid fools (1 of 27).

    “After 73 days, the Catlin Arctic Survey has come to an end. Pen Hadow’s team of British Arctic explorers have battled to the North Pole through freezing conditions collecting data about the ice en route. The Guardian has been following the expedition’s progress with images, audio, video and blogs sent back by the team. You can find full coverage here.”

    Steve did not make up a quote. It’s right there. So you jump in with your warmist defense to try to mislead readers following behind you with your own falsehood. Nice try. Did you think we also would not check?

    Given the entire publicity stunt farcical nature of this “scientific expedition” in the first place, I suppose your own misreprepresentation of what Steve is saying is to be expected. Afterall, it’s hard defend any alleged science in this “Green Trek” when the Russians drove to the North Pole in a fraction of the time in what amounted to super Hummers (and relative comfort) and consumed far less fuel than the Catlin Team’s Otter. We’re all still wondering how many fuel drums these Catlin numbskulls left out on the ice.

  14. John Servais
    ‘So – I went to the Guardian website and read their article – and they do not say the Catlin team was picked up at the North Pole. Indeed, the article clearly says they are being picked up 490 Km short of the Pole.

    So – do you regularly make up quotes on the assumption that your readers will not check?’

    What are you talking about? Did you click onto the link?
    Steven didn’t make anything up. It seems that The Guardian is doing the misleading thing.

  15. Oh! Everything I said above applies to John Servis’ impugning Steven Goddard’s honesty :0)

  16. Regarding the Catlin team the Guardian wrote

    “The Catlin Arctic Survey’s original mission to take measurements right up to the North Pole has not worked out though. They will be picked up 490km from the pole, less than half way there”.

    I think your headline is really “cherry picking” and really doesn’t enhance the credibility of a site that I strongly support. Unfortunately the headline may well be seized on by the alarmists to discredit your site and those that quote it

  17. John Servais (16:58:28):

    So – I went to the Guardian website and read their article – and they do not say the Catlin team was picked up at the North Pole. Indeed, the article clearly says they are being picked up 490 Km short of the Pole.

    So – do you regularly make up quotes on the assumption that your readers will not check?

    I went too and found this:

    After 73 days, the Catlin Arctic Survey has come to an end. Pen Hadow’s team of British Arctic explorers have battled to the North Pole through freezing conditions collecting data about the ice en route.

    Which is exactly what Steven Goddard wrote:

    Immediately upon their return, The Guardian reported :
    After 73 days, the Catlin Arctic Survey has come to an end. Pen Hadow’s team of British Arctic explorers have battled to the North Pole through freezing conditions collecting data about the ice en route.

    What’s the problem?

    Catlin should get an insurance on “catched moving the North Pole”… Just in case Catlin wanted to change the North Pole to Mexico. Heh… :)

  18. JohnA’s link was identified as a threat site by Norton. It contains three trojan viruses…

  19. Anthony:
    Without detracting in any way from the courage and tenaciousness of the three polar explorers, one would have to conclude that their efforts have come up considerably short of their goals. They did not reach the North Pole (Guardian’s article to the contrary), their equipment was woefully inadequate for the conditions encountered (poor planning and poor execution), they did not succeed in measuring ice thickness to the extent they wanted and they have underscored the fact the Arctic remains a domain dominated by frigid temperatures and ice. If anything, they have educated the public (largely British school children apparently) that the Arctic will not be bikini haven anytime soon.

    But something bothers me – why has no one queried the Catlin organization about the garbage left behind on the ice? When the group was put out on the ice, they went out with 2 Twin Otters. They were picked up by 2 Twin Otters, but one was full of fuel and the other was full of BBC TV crews and breathless reporters. Who picked up the empty drums? Where are the sledges and detritus of the expedition – did they come back in the 2 Twin Otters? Are the Floating Supply Bases still out on the ice? Are there caches of full fuel drums still out on the ice to pollute the pristine Arctic seas? Obviously, the BBC is not going to ask those tough questions.

  20. I’m curious to see how this is reported in the U.S. press. I can only hope it won’t be presented as anything except a publicity stunt. I’m sure Mr. Padow is planning a book.

  21. Anthony
    You may have already considered this idea. Each time you post a blog such as this why not send a communication to the author of the outrageous statement (particularly when they are “expert” scientists) advising that person that they are the subject of a blog here on WUWT. Also point out the monthly traffic that visits this site each month and also invite the author to justify on the blog their original statement. Me thinks that this action will quickly qwell some of the more stupid media statements.

  22. It appears that the grauniad has changed its words. Anywhere I find the “after 73 days …” there is no reference to the objective.

  23. Wow, another sign the AGW-savvy media is making stuff up, can you trust anyone outside of WUWT, IceCap and IceAgeNow on climate anymore?

    I love how that little red line started flattening out before it dipped below any of the other lines, still at the top, and apparently ignoring the orders to melt from the BBC

  24. great job and i found that quote in less than 5 seconds of perusing the article. Too bad others don’t have the internet skills and visul acuity that a legaly blind(without my glasses) 43 year old does.

  25. Mike Bryant, even with my ultra-sensitive setup, there is no problem with John A’s link. It is directly to a jpg, end of story.

    I do, however, have a problem with Symantec/Norton, having just made myself a bunch of $$$ removing it from someone’s computer today. That thing IS a trojan/virus.

  26. Steve goddard, hmmm, would that be the person who made this statement:
    Steve Goddard (15:48:47) :
    bill,
    Sea water freezes at -2C/ If you kept the temperature over the ice permanently at -8C, it would eventually freeze all the way to the sea floor – unless there is another source of heat in the system.
    Please give it a rest – you are just talking gibberish.

    Science at its best!

    Ralph Bullis (17:52:19) :
    I believe the question of waste has been covered elsewhere but:
    Drums are marked with their owners and will be retrieved.
    organic waste is left behind (in a couple of years it will be in the sea) Non organic is flown back.
    One can assume that the kit is all brought back. The barrels of fuel are used for the return journey the planes will be lighter by the amount burnt in going out.

    NO ONE is expecting temperatures above freezing at the pole. It may become ice free in summer but not winter. Can we drop the childish references to “sunbathing” please.

    Cherry and nit-picking on some hacks mistake adds absolutely nothing to this blog. to or toward is nitpicking in my books!

  27. Hal (17:21:12) : “You alarmists can only nitpick, while you spew out massive garbage.”

    Would language like this from those with the opposite view be accepted?

    Reply: Yes. The label that is unacceptable is “denier,” which has the connotation of “Holocaust denier,” and is objectionable for that reason. There is, however, no dispute that some people are sounding the alarm over climate issues. ~ dbstealey, moderator.

  28. Well, over on Denial Depot we were considering awarding Mr Goddard a Blog Science Doctorate. However he has kind of blotted his copy book, so to speak. Here he considers a mere photo caption as worthy of a whole ‘rapid rebuttal’ post, even when the same publication is quite clear …

    The Catlin Arctic Survey’s original mission to take measurements right up to the North Pole has not worked out though. They will be picked up 490km from the pole, less than half way there.

    Look, we’re all on the same side here, fighting the good fight agianst the phoney psuedoscientific alarmism alarmism of the IPCC and the Gore-ist UN socialist bedwetters and their tax-imposing agenda, but nitpicking over photo captions is not going to help the cause one jot. Surely the bandwidth taken up by this post would have been better expended on a photo of a weather station next to a barbecue?

  29. Ah, but dear sir: You forget that enviro’s do not have to follow the truth-and-cleanliness rules that they demand the real world try to follow: Leaving oil-filled drums on the ice to melt through is “holy” and ” good” as long as they do it in the “name” of the environment. Actual health or safety or environmental quality – or even the truth for that matter – are irrelevant.

    If an evil power plant or chemical refinery were to try such a thing on private property, they’d be arrested and fined for pollution. But lying or exaggerating is “OK” by the enviro’s.

  30. I don’t think the Guardian Goofed – considering the state of science knowledge these days it might actually be a sincere belief held by many of the AGW camp.

    Sad really.

  31. Ian and John Servais;

    Click the link and report back the caption over the photo.

    I am not sure if you are meaning to be willfully ignorant on a point that can easily be refuted by simply looking at the source information. Seems to me that an inherent weakness with people like you is the fact that facts just do not matter to you, shoddy Enviro slanted journalism keeps making mistakes to mislead people and you keep saying it is the facts that are false not the reporting.

    Listen the fact is the Guardian has false information on their site at the link supplied. So while mistakes happen this is a major story that their site has dedicated a special area for reporting it. Hence accuracy should be a given on a major goal of the expedition.

    Is it the end of the world, nope, but it is symptomatic of the distorted reporting around climate change issues.

  32. The Australian MSN picked up the UK report of Hadow and crew leaving the ice due to the early Summer melt, intimating that there is a (AGW) problem.

    Another spin on ‘data’ that has not yet been analysed and nothing about the relative amount of ice ast the moment compared to previous years.

    Sounds like an agenda looking for a complacent MSM ‘reporter’.

  33. Strictly speaking, “battling to” a destination does not imply with 100 surety that the destination was achieved, merely that the direction of any progress was towards that destination. Its the perfect weasel word for this situation. One has to admire the Guardian’s word-smithery, if not its integrity. Would its target audience object to this phrase? Of course not.

  34. 2 steps forward, 1 step back.
    Whatever their excuse is, the whole thing was a comedy, even if taken at face value.
    Hadlow was supposed to be a seasoned Arctic trekker.
    Falling 500km short is gross failure.

  35. MC (17:49:24) :
    Huh. Sure don’t look like bedraggled Artic trekkers having suffered mightily at the bite of the cruel Polar extremes. The experience on those faces says something entirely different.
    Might be interesting to see photos of Amundsen or Scott after such journeys.
    Well, I’ll be !

  36. Catlin Insurance has put out a press release:

    http://www.catlin.com/cgl/media/press_releases/pr_2009/2009-05-14/

    I find this interesting:

    “The expedition ended several weeks ahead of schedule because of concerns that the Spring melting of the Arctic sea ice would make it too dangerous for aircraft to land at a later date.”

    The original plan, as I know it, was to travel 1000 kilometers in 100 days and arrive at the geographic north pole. Therefore, according to their plan they would arrive at the north pole sometime in early June. We know from past posts that the pilots consider April 30 as the cutoff point for normal, safe operations in the arctic. There seems to be a disconnect here, to say the least. The press release implies, and could easily fool anyone who hasn’t paid attention, that the “expedition” has come to an end because the ice is melting “ahead of schedule”.

    the same press release also quotes Pen Hadow:

    “It was a gruelling but successful expedition.”

    Warning! LAYMAN speculating.

    Wasn’t the original idea of this expedition to take precise radar readings of the ice thickness. The drilled and measured readings were probably to be used as a sort of control to back up the radar readings or provide data to adjust, as necessary, the radar readings? If the radar didn’t work, wasn’t this whole endeavor a colossal boondoggle from day 1 (or 2.)

  37. I am glad that they survived this poorly planed attempt at proving AGW affects upon the arctic ice. They were in a truly dangerous environment that cares not the motivation of the lifeforms in its grasp. My biggest concern was for the people that would risk their lives to retrieve them. It was plainly obvious the Catlin crew were woefully unprepared for what was encountered.

    This publicity stunt should have never been attempted, unfortunately I fear this will not be the last desperate attempt to save the AGW religion. Believers will never accede to science and reasoned skepticism of the cause the Catlin Three almost became martyrs for.

    As for the posts from the AGW religious followers, the Guardian placed the misleading information on the pop up text box for the headline picture. The reader then has to click on the link to get the accurate information. This demonstrated either very poor editing, or advocacy journalism. Many people will never click through to the article to get the full story. Sad but true in this day and age. One would hope for better than what is demonstrated from a professional news organization.

  38. I just wanted to pile on John Servais also : Your quick reaction (you were number one) and your inaccuracy are emblematic of the global warming alarmists: they can’t even report straight forward information correctly and yet do it with a snobbery that only they can call up so well. What a loser.

  39. peter_ga (18:44:31) :

    With all due respect sir, the phrase was not “battling to” but rather “have battled to” – signifying definitely completed action. The caption was a blatant falsehood.

  40. The early melt part is the fraudulent statement that is the most egregious as far as I am concerned. The rest is just spin about hardship and ice thickness. There is no part of the ice melt statement that can be said to be true as all data sources indicate that the initiation of the melt season was average. In addition, anyone can check Arctic temperature, weather, wind patterns, and jet stream to see if you need to get off the ice early or not.

  41. rbateman (18:52:03) :

    MC (17:49:24) :
    Huh. Sure don’t look like bedraggled Artic trekkers having suffered mightily at the bite of the cruel Polar extremes. The experience on those faces says something entirely different.
    Might be interesting to see photos of Amundsen or Scott after such journeys.
    Well, I’ll be

    RBateman, Yea, if they walked to the pole they’d be a motley lookin bunch. Goddard and the whole bunch of us knows they sat around and floated here and there on the ice for a few days-let the resupply planes litter the ice for their personal comfort-then when they return they propogate a bunch of misleading storytelling.

    If it wern’t for Anthony and Goddard and a few other sticklers they could get away with the propoganda scheme. Great thing about all this is the Catlin people know they’re being checked and a whole lot of other people who come by and read the content of this site come around to figuring out what’s really going on. I know this to be true and that is if anyone searches and retrieves the full text of every story WUWT has posted on the Catlin Survey you will without question know the truth and the truth is what we need desparately these days.

  42. 30 days and counting. No, this isn’t a sunspotless-days post. According to the IARC JAXA data, on April 16 the 2009 sea-ice extent was greater than on any previous April 16th in IARC JAXA’s dataset (June 21, 2002 to present). The same has been true for every day since then. May 15th is the 30th day in a row that has exceeded its counterparts in all previous years. I’m sure that the AGW crowd will soon be providing more spin than the Arctic Gyre, attempting to explain away this data.

  43. John Servais,
    I am a little disappointed that you haven’t done the right thing and simply apologized for a small mistake. I’ve used the advanced search and read a couple of your articles and you seem to be genuinely concerned with truth. I am hoping that you simply have not checked back in to see the responses to your hastily written rebuke.
    Do the right thing,
    Mike

  44. If the Guardian can convince the public every year from now on that the North Pole moved by 500 km south in 5 years it will be in an ice free area of the pacific ocean and Al is proven right after all.
    A few years further and the pole will be found close to the Hawaiian islands.
    Climate science at its best if the ice wouldn’t melt move the pole instead.

  45. http://psc.apl.washington.edu/northpole/

    Great site that gives you direct data from ice placed buoys.

    I see the temps at “Nautilus 90 North” as -10 to -11 C. Also indication of
    complete cloud coverage right now.

    Must be them there Bermudan sub sea currents making all that ice melt.

    Which brings me to, “Don’t worry! Be happy”. Pina Cola’s anyone?

  46. Without a doubt, the Catlin Survey ranks as one of the most environmentally destructive stunts perpetrated in the name of science. How much aviation fuel was burned getting them there, resupplying them, and getting them out? How much refuse did they generate and was it left behind? And all this for what? A few imprecise ice thickness measurements taken with a tape measure!

    There was no science here…just one giant publicity stunt for an insurance company…

    By the way, did you know that the Catlin Group is headquartered in Bermuda?

    http://www.catlin.com/cgl/media/press_releases/pr_2009/2008-05-08c/

    Catlin Group Limited, headquartered in Bermuda , is an international specialist property/casualty insurer and reinsurer writing more than 30 classes of business worldwide through four underwriting platforms and an international network of offices. Catlin shares are traded on the London Stock Exchange (ticker symbol: CGL). Gross premiums written in 2008 exceeded US$3.4 billion. More information can be found at http://www.catlin.com.

  47. I agree that this particular “typo” in the Guardian doesn’t prove anything by itself, but when you’ve seen things like this before in the Guardian, you begin to wonder whether there’s a pattern behind it:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/apr/28/climate-change-poles
    Under “Summer Sea Ice”, it states that “However, the 2008 winter ice extent was near the year long-term average.”

    Is this a typo? Or is it intentionally misleading in order to obscure the fact that Arctic Sea Ice Extent is near the long-term average?: http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/daily_images/N_timeseries.png
    Perhaps the editors of the Guardian will let us know and issue a correction?

    It does seem that some at the Guardian are willing to admit when they’ve made a mistake:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2009/may/15/climate-change-scepticism-arctic-ice

  48. Also speaking of ice look at this comment by a climatologist
    http://www.cdapress.com/articles/2009/05/11/columns/columns06.prt
    That’s the Hubbard glacier advancing 7 feet a day and if it closes off the Fjord could have a huge negative economic impact on the various regions, and he blames it on the quiet sun.

    He’s predicting the Idaho Summer to be rather short because of the ‘silent sun’, but it’ll be a very hot one as if all the summer heat is trying to squeeze into the shorter season.

    As for the big economic threat from the glacier maybe they could blow up the glacier, it’s a newer option now they didn’t really have during the Little Ice Age.

  49. I may have been wrong about John Servais. It seems that some of his readers have taken exception to his published ideas. Unfortunately we will never know what those ideas were since John is a proponent of censorship. very interesting post here:
    http://nwcitizen.blogspot.com/

    At one point John is called a “sniper” which fits his M. O. here.

  50. I would cut the Grauniad some slack. I expect that the writer was simply unconsciously filling the need to maintain its reputation for speeling mistooks and mispronts.

  51. From:http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2009/may/13/catlin-arctic-survey-ends

    At the same time, there will be live webcast in which Hadow will give a run-down of the team’s initial results, such as the average ice thickness the team measured. I’m told he will also say that they did not encounter any multi-year ice (only new ice that froze that year). That is a bit of a mystery and the scientific interpretation for why that might be will take some time to work out.

    What mystery?….. most ‘scientists’ knew that on their selected route they were going to find mostly first year ice. The only ‘interpretation’ that needs to be made is what the reason for their routing was.

  52. More coverage of the “successful” expedition at insurancejournal.com:

    “The bulletin noted that the three explorers “were forced to cope with extreme physical conditions during the first weeks of the expedition, even for Arctic standards.”

    Peter Wadhams, Professor of Ocean Physics and Head of the Polar Ocean Physics Group in the Department of Applied Mathematics and Theoretical Physics at the University of Cambridge commented: “The data already sent back show the team have been travelling on first-year ice and provide an insight into its rate of growth this year. The rest of the data the team will provide on their return will help us to process and interpret it further and make a valuable contribution to data available to sea ice scientists.”

    http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/international/2009/05/15/100541.htm

    We should start keeping a tally of how many ways these reports manage to dance around the fact that they had to deal with unexpectedly cold conditions.

  53. It seems to be a trait of those to the left to be unable to admit when they are wr..wr..wro..wron……wrong.

    why is it that a person such as the original respondent can come here and make such an erroneous statement but then seemingly be unable to correct it when it is quickly pointed out to him?

    [snip ~ Evan]

    Everyone makes mistakes but people with integrity admit and fix them.

    Regards

    Michael

  54. John
    try clicking on the link for the Gauardian reported above.. The caption for the picture clearly stated they battled to the North Pole.

  55. I think your headline is really “cherry picking” and really doesn’t enhance the credibility of a site that I strongly support.

    It seems all you catastrophists have trouble with the truth.

    [Snip – Not too horrible, but I am in a snippy mood. ~ Evan]

    The quote used by Steve is the first thing you see when you follow the link. I think in journalism it’s know as the lead.

    Unfortunately the headline may well be seized on by the alarmists to discredit your site and those that quote it.

    I’m sure you will try but since alarmists have no credibility outside their own cloistered world your misrepresentation will be seen as a desperate grab at straws.

  56. The AGW crowd has dragged this out rather well.

    As the Earth cools and the economy dies the money is going to dry up. Gonna be interesting since even the deniers will be affected.

    If you look at the actual history of the Arctic the ’30’s were quite warm and that continued into the ’40’s. There were many boats running all over the NW Passage. Then all of a sudden in the later ’40’s the Arctic froze up. History will repeat, it always does and all the predictions and statistics of the dissapearing Arctic ice will be laid to waste.

    So why does the science consider the past history anectodal?

    Winston Churchill, “The farther backward you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.”

  57. ” John Servais (16:58:28) :

    So – I went to the Guardian website and read their article – and they do not say the Catlin team was picked up at the North Pole. Indeed, the article clearly says they are being picked up 490 Km short of the Pole.

    So – do you regularly make up quotes on the assumption that your readers will not check? ”

    Actually, John, I went directly to the link anthony gave, of the photo of them being picked up, and it states clearly that they were picked up AT THE NORTH POLE.

  58. Pamela Gray (19:28:07) :

    “The early melt part is the fraudulent statement that is the most egregious as far as I am concerned…”

    after recent statement, a different picture has to be drawn about hadrow.

    he was not only the head of a poorly planned. poorly equipped and poorly executed adventure.

    his misleading interpretations of the thin first year ice (that was actually rather thick), his astonishment about the lack of multi-year ice (what was a consequence of the route they decided to choose) and his lie about the early melting season after the 3rd slowest melting in april on record, can no longer be excused by pure lack of knowledge or well meant fanatism.

  59. peter_ga (18:44:31) :

    Strictly speaking, “battling to” a destination does not imply with 100 surety that the destination was achieved, merely that the direction of any progress was towards that destination. Its the perfect weasel word for this situation.

    Pen Hadow’s team of British Arctic explorers have battled to the North Pole

    There is no ubiquity in the above quote. It’s misleading and sloppy journalism.

  60. Steve Goddard and Anthony:

    Thanks for drawing my attention to the Catlin group. I started plotting their movements and examining their website in detail and I wrote the article in American Thinker at http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/the_catlin_ice_follies.htm as a result. I especially appreciate your catching that they were on first year ice most of the way which helps refute their story that “they were surprised” about all the first year ice.

    Reply to Joseph

    There is a complete Google Earth kml file of their movements probably according to a GPS beacon for the entire trip at http://www.solaradata.com/Solara.kml. There are several times when the team “moved” around but it was solely due to the ice movement, especially at the end.

    REPLY: Happy to help. Check out the fake biotelemetry data we reported on, just put “Catlin and biotelemtry” in the search box. – Anthony

  61. The UK Daily Telegraph has reported that “The average measurement was 1.77m, which is thinner than expected”

    Link here; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/globalwarming/5321067/Pen-Hadow-climate-change-trek-finds-thin-ice.html

    In the same article, the UK Telegraph further reports “However more than 16,000 observations were taken of the state of the ice, including 1,500 readings of the depth of the ice taken from a manual drill.”

    Having followed the Catlin expedition’s misadventures via this blog and others, I’m finding that the elasticity quotient of my credulity with regards to the quoted Telegraph article has just gone into acute catastrophic failure mode.

  62. There’s lies, there’s damned lies and there’ the grauniad (for those readers not familiar with the Guardian, it was notorious for not being able to spell).

  63. Anthony,

    Could you please add a commentary reply to the ” John Servais (16:58:28) : ” post (first post)?

    I found it disconcerting to the discussion here to have such a blatantly false accusation presented as first comment. It really detracts from the remainder of the thread.

    Thank you for your consideration…

  64. Climate Heretic I’m perfectly well aware of the article in the Guardian and agree the quote under the caption is what was written. But whether you like it or whether you don’t in ths same article the point was made that the Catlin team didn’t make it to the North Pole and had to be picked up 490km short. You obviously have no undrestanding of the way the alarmists will seize on this headline and use it to discredit this site, which, if you read what I wrote is a site I strongly support. Providing ammunition to the AGW crowd is not a really good idea

  65. As a Brit I just know that the yearly HM Queen’s Birthday Honours list will contain awards for the 3 Stooges. For what?

    About as valid as Al Gore’s Nobel prize or the Oscar for the Convenient Untruth.

    If the GPS data is evident for the entire trip how come Anne Daniels ‘navigated’ the team in fog by ignoring the [apparently faulty] GPS and using the wind that ‘She knew was coming from the West.’
    And the band played “Believe it if you must!” tra la…….

  66. 1. Due to horrifically cold weather, hypothermia and frostbite, . . .
    . . .
    7. They will no doubt get an invite to St. James Palace for tea with Prince Charles

    Glad to have you back, Catlin, but it’s gonna be tough to hold a teacup with no fingertips.

  67. For months Guardian environment articles were accompanied by a plug for the Catlin expedition claiming that it would reveal the state of ice at the poles, in the plural. Ending up 490 km from the North one at least means that they were that much closer to the South one.

  68. John Trigge (18:41:51) :

    The Australian MSN picked up the UK report of Hadow and crew leaving the ice due to the early Summer melt, intimating that there is a (AGW) problem.

    Yes, I have browsed around the NET, including the Catlin site, and everywhere I read they are insinuating that the Catlin bunch had to be rescued from the ice because the ice was melting.

    What is the real reason for their departure? Melting Ice? or Failed Mission?

  69. The initial BBC article made no mention of the expedition’s failure and portrayed it as a successful trek. That article was a better choice to make an example of but it might have recieved edits by now.

  70. Carlo (18:51:42) :

    “This year, the summer melt came a little early,” Hadow said during a Webcast conference from Resolute Bay in northern Canada. “We would have rather reached the Pole if we could have, but we’ve always regarded (getting there) as the cherry on the cake.”

    The summer melt came a little early?

    http://www.heraldonline.com/wire/world/story/1342700.html

    Precisely what I was talking about. I am not understanding this “early melt” garbage. All indications that I have seen, from real measurements, is that, if anything, the seasonal melt is behind schedule, and that there is plenty of ice. Can someone here clarify this for us?

  71. John Servais (16:58:28) :

    You and your friends keep watching John. You’ll learn something. There is life outside of politics.

  72. They release the article to the press. They get busted on it. A retraction is placed in some far away corner, unseen. The damage has been done. We see this over and over , and yet it just seems to keep on keepin’ on. Perhaps society is turning a blind eye willfully. Sometimes you get tired fighting the good fight all the time and you just want to lie down for awhile. Then along comes Mr. Servais actin’ all big and bad, makes a ginormous gaff, and WHAM, your vigar is renewed !!!! I thank you, sir, ………

  73. The expedition follows in the long tradition across all fields of young enthusiastic folks needing to draw up a suitable movie script to raise the shekels to go. Mountaineers, sailors, trekkers, you name it. They do it.

    They’ll get their 15 minutes of fame.

    But it’s a very minor blip in the annals of climate science………..

  74. The Catlin Expedition Pens More Lies about Global Warming:

    We battled our way to the North Pole… NOT!

    We took representative measurements of ice thickness… NOT!

    Arctic ice is much thinner than usual… NOT!

    This year, the summer melt came a little early… NOT!

    We are environmentalists… NOT!

    Pen and Company, you are Climate Clowns, and accomplished liars.

  75. John Servais (16:58:28) :

    If you are truly concerned about things that are made up then put Al Gore, James Hansen, Michael Mann, and Naomi Oreskes under your watchful eye.

  76. ” Margo’s Maid (22:51:40) : the Catlin Crew have been ranked amongst the top five British polar explorers of all time:”

    Boy, this really doesn’t say much for the Brits!

    Reply: I suggest you read the link. ~ charles the moderator

  77. John Servais (16:58:28) :

    “So – I went to the Guardian website and read their article – and they do not say the Catlin team was picked up at the North Pole. Indeed, the article clearly says they are being picked up 490 Km short of the Pole.”

    Steven Goddard didn’t post a quote that said they were “picked up” at the Pole. The Guardian created the impression that they made it to the North Pole. And that statement was hyperlinked to an article that did not reference where they were picked up, nor did the hyperlink below that.
    One had to dig through the whole site to find that information – there are or were *several* articles, not just one, or as you say “their article”.

    “So – do you regularly make up quotes on the assumption that your readers will not check?”

    Oh, the irony. No quote was made up, unless it was by you claiming a quote was posted saying they were picked up at the Pole.

    “NwCitizen writers have been following your stuff – and have been impressed to a point. Perhaps we need to keep track of you as you supposedly – read pretend – to keep track of the envoro’s press. Hello.”

    Now that’s just downright scary! Any reason why anyone should give a hootnholler? Got even one reference to a post on your dead site where a writer references Wattsupwiththat?

  78. ” Margo’s Maid (22:51:40) : the Catlin Crew have been ranked amongst the top five British polar explorers of all time:”

    It’s amazing how shallow one can be, as is with Pen Hadlow, and end up in this sort of category. WHAT AN ABSOLUTE JOKE!!

    And John Servais, you can quote me on that in your inconsequential political blogs that only few ever heard of. Make yourself feel important.

  79. Reply: I suggest you read the link. ~ charles the moderator

    i see

    i was venting frustrations, —sorry Anthony, and charles, i was a bit out of line

    let’s hope they really are ranked on a list of ridicule

  80. Some people need to read. The Catlin expedition have indeed been ranked 2nd on the list of all time British Polar Explorers.

    BUT

    THEY RANK 2ND ON THE LIST OF ALL TIME DUMBEST POLAR EXPLORERS.

    Link
    http://margosmaid.blogspot.com/2009/05/catlin-expedition-ranked-second-on-all.html

    Hoot of a read, worthy of a post here at WUWT.

    Dumbest 5 are, drum roll……

    5th John Hornby
    4th Admiral Sir Edward Belcher
    3rd Lewis Pugh (the dumb kayaker)
    2nd The Catlin Expedition
    1st Robert Falcon Scott

    Basically it seems like Catlin only managed to get 2nd behind Scott because nobody dies on the Catlin Expedition.

    As I said, Hoot of a read.

  81. The BBC news site shows them being picked up. And it has the best map I have seen about the track of the expedition.

    In the BBC videos Pen declares his team did what they said they would although it was too bad some electronics let them down. But anyway the real goal was drilling the holes and making the measurements.

    He notes the ice was thinner that expected and that is important data.

    The BBC reporter is obviously trying to be agreeable and stay neutral about what Pen says. And I think that is the right way to handle the story when you consider the setting; on the ice 300 miles from the pole, talking with three tired people.

    Personally I don’t see how they even managed to take all those ice measurements. Boring hundreds of holes through ice doesn’t seem possible when you consider they kept moving, spent time on the useless radar, and had to stay in tents during several bad storms.

    No doubt we will hear Pen’s version and little else. Twas a famous victory!

  82. “John Servais” – Do you regulary MISREAD all the articles you look at ?.

    Where are you ?

    Come back !!.

  83. I hopeyou will excuse my poor English.
    I love this site but I always double check what is said when I want to use it.

    The memo from John Servais is a non information for the following reason:

    Some people when they make a conference have a “complice” in the room who will ask the first question. The question can even be on a chosen topic, asked in a way that the speaker can answer and say latter I already answered to that question. I hate that.

    Here we do not know but this first memo is so cute that it could be an Antony manipulation.
    I would be a chief alarmist, I would say:
    John Servais [snip], you made the game of Antony Wattt and Steven Goddar. It is clear that you are a hidden sceptic and we will claim that all that stuff is a new proof of how these guys are manipulating the truth. Do not apologize; [snip]

    Some times it is not an organised manipulation, the first to ask question could be some one who just want you help the speaker like here.[snip] May be John Servais is just Steven brother in law who wanted to help him.

    I personally think it is not a manipulation because I am quite sure, one made by Antony would be more subtle.
    But anyway and seriously as we cannot know we cannot use that, it is just for fun.

  84. Gaurdian North Pole comment is still there. So is the Ice.

    North = -300,000 sqkm
    South = +900,000 sqkm
    These are facts,

    This is speculation,

    Looking at the NSIDC graphs I would estimate for September 2009 to be back to normal, 2007 and 2008 having been the low point. As temp drops over the next few years, expect to see the Ice min point in september to increase slightly. Definitely not Ice free in 2013.

  85. What I’d like to know is how many of Catlin’s “readings” were done with the drill and the stick after their equipment failed. They were frostbitten and starving yet they managed 16,000 readings. How many holes did they drill?

  86. When I go to the Guardian’s Environment-page: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment, and click on the first article I see on the Catlin expedition: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2009/may/13/catlin-arctic-survey-ends, I read after a few lines that ‘the Catlin Arctic Survey’s original mission to take measurements right up to the North Pole has not worked out though. They will be picked up 490km from the pole, less than half way there.’

    Now, to the right of this article under the header ‘More on this story’ there are several links, on of them being ‘Catlin Arctic Survey: Images from the ice’, which has the infamously misleading ‘battled to the North Pole’ propaganda Steven Goddard alludes to.

    Great, Steven. You’ve managed to find something to underscore the fact that the press will exaggerate to gain attention and that many reporters in the press write about things that they know nothing or not much about. I mean, how many people who work at the Guardian actually know whether Hadow made it to the North Pole or came 490 or 22 or 267 km short?

    I totally agree with you that the MSM is a mess, not only on climate reporting but on many, many other issues as well. But do you really have to come up with articles such as this one to highlight this fact? Isn’t that a bit over the top? Editors and reporters are hyperanxious to be first to report and will blow up anything that sells. But you and Anthony are not MSM editors, right? I think WUWT can chug along fine without these nitpicking and hastily written articles.

  87. Oh, and one last thing, Steven. When you write an article with the title ‘The Guardian Relocates The North Pole By 500km’, you should be fair and mention the fact that the main article states that thing about ‘490km from the pole, less than half way there.’

  88. Leon Brozyna has hit the nail on the head. There is no journalism any more, just a repetition of press reports, which represent the opinions, biased or otherwise of the group or persons who issued them. There is no attempt to verify accuracy. Have a look at the internet edition of a few international newspapers regarding some item of world news and you will find the item printed word for word in newspapers all over the world. Journalism as an art, is dead.

  89. Hey my first snip. Gee Evan you must be in a snipping mood!!

    I actually think that was a reasonable deduction based on 1. How incredibly easy it was to find the quote on the Guardians site to prove him wrong and/or 2. how absent he has been since his first factually incorrect comment.

    Why snip a comment that brings his intelligence and/or character into question when he was the one that wanted to place it in the public arena for all to critique? I’m not one for ad-hominem attacks, but a comment about someones motivations when the situation is so black and white surely couldn’t be characterised as that. Let’s not be afraid to call a spade a spade when it is warranted.

    Regards

    Michael

  90. Incidentally has anyone ever tried to measure 1.744 m with an imperial, (inches), tape measure?

  91. Come on Anthony,tell us how you are subtly manipulating us.I didn’t think there was anything subtle about this site.Gerard,your English is bad,but maybe you can speak and write perfect English,and you are hiding behind the disguise of a foreigner to manipulate us into believing that Mr Wattt? is manipulating us,or maybe you used that disguise to issue insults.

  92. ALL TIME DUMBEST POLAR EXPLORERS

    These guys have got to be number 1

    http://www.ecoenquirer.com/south-pole-tragedy.htm

    “One friend of Prof. Schneider told ecoEnquirer that he had been planning a trip to an ice sheet to film the devastation brought on by global warming.”

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2245301/posts

    “Apparently, while all of Prof. Schneider’s friends were assuming that the July trek would be to Greenland, during Northern Hemisphere summer, his plans were actually to snowmobile to the South Pole – which, in July, is in the dead of winter.”

  93. Also in the telegraph

    “Pen Hadow climate change trek finds thin ice
    Arctic explorer Pen Hadow has warned that the polar ice cap he has been examining to gauge the extent of climate change appears far thinner than expected after trekking more than 250 miles to the North Pole.”

    But after the headline

    The veteran explorer and his team trekked more than 269 miles for 73 days but were unable to make it to the North Pole because of extreme weather, with temperatures dropping below minus 40 degrees F/C.

  94. “Arctic explorer Pen Hadow has warned that the polar ice cap he has been examining to gauge the extent of climate change appears far thinner than expected after trekking more than 250 miles to the North Pole.”

    “Appears” is another of those words that needs DATA to back it up.

    How far did the North Pole trek to them again? I know the magnetic north pole moves but who’d have thought that the geographic one would move about… wouldn’t we be in really serious trouble if that actually happened?

    Science over propaganda.

  95. M White (03:24:56) :
    Oh dear so easily confused on the same site that references this
    http://www.ecoenquirer.com/south-pole-tragedy.htm
    is:
    http://www.ecoenquirer.com/levitating-islands.htm
    http://www.ecoenquirer.com/Bush-jets-and-Katrina.htm
    http://www.ecoenquirer.com/dolphins-heading-north.htm
    http://www.ecoenquirer.com/polar-bear-heat.htm

    Quite a good, well written Hoots really!!!!!!!!
    the ecoenquirer are in my humour section of favourites now!!!

    And the blogosphere all believe it’s true!!!!!!

  96. What a site!!! well worth a look:
    Dr. Slander recounted a recent incident in which a polar bear attacked a local homeless man, and had devoured only a small part of the man’s body before collapsing from exhaustion. “Because of global warming, the bears’ normal way of life is changing rapidly..it’s tragic.”

    and
    http://www.ecoenquirer.com/antarctic-ice.htm
    Dr. Frost also described ongoing research into the application of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle to climate studies. Her concern is that the large number of climate researchers that are now observing the climate system are actually changing the Earth’s climate because of their observations, and believes this effect needs to be taken into account in computerized climate models.

    and a classic
    http://www.ecoenquirer.com/Bali-global-warming-2027.htm
    As in previous years, the U.N. conference was the target of some criticism for neglecting mounting scientific evidence that climate change is a largely natural phenomenon. A minority of non-UN-certified climate scientists once again pointed to global temperatures that have continued their slow decline for the past thirty years. All of these comments were made anonymously due to their illegality under anti-green hate speech laws.

    “Yes, global temperatures have fallen”, admitted Mr. Gore in private, “but as we all know, this spurious cooling trend will suddenly change to rapid warming…possibly as early as next month. I am told by our UN scientists that we now have less than ten years to avert a global inferno of cataclysmic proportions.”

    Once again, the Canadian delegation expressed some concern that the world’s cooling trend might not end soon enough. Pointing to the ice sheet in northern Canada that has now survived through thirteen summers without melting, the Canadians warned that some towns in the far north might have to be abandoned as the ice sheet continues its expansion southward

  97. I am a bit puzzled why everybody is at John Servais’ throat. He correctly referred to the text in the main body of the article rather then the caption of a photograph to which Steve referred. I think Steve owes John an apology.

    Steve should have mentioned in his guest post that there was this discrepancy. By omitting the part of text that says: “The Catlin Arctic Survey’s original mission to take measurements right up to the North Pole has not worked out though. They will be picked up 490km from the pole, less than half way there” Steven can and should be accused of cherry-picking. This is unfortunate because he does “our cause” a disservice.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2009/may/13/catlin-arctic-survey-ends

  98. Damn…where’s that sign I posted?…seems to keep getting knocked down or turned around…

    Oh…there it is!

    PLEASE…do NOT FEED THE TROLLS!

    JimB

  99. One comment on the site that I remember about the fact that the drift moved them closer to the North Pole is something like after they have been out of food, after the last food an sleeping bag delivery, is this (not exactly these words though): “This is good since we then will complete more of this very important scientific studOne comment on the site that I remeber about the fact that the drift moved them closer to the North Pole is something like after they have been out of food, after the last food an sleeping bag delivery, is this (not exactly these words though): “This is good since we then will complete more of this very important scientific study, which is why we are here.”

    Any polar bear who can drill can do that scientifically important job if you just force it to stay on a flake?

    Also Ann said that education is important, and that she used her math to calculate how long distance they have to achieve each day to reach the North Pole. Then, late in April, they had to make 16 km a day or something… I also did that important calculation in my head. Science is saved.y, which is why we are here.”

    Any polar bear who can drill can do that scientifically important job if you just force it to stay on a flake?

    Also Ann said that education is important, and that she used her math to calculate how long distance they have to achieve each day to reach the North Pole. Then, late in April, they had to make 16 km a day or something… I also did that important calculation in my head. Science is saved. How happy I am!

  100. “Chris Wood (03:08:13) :

    Incidentally has anyone ever tried to measure 1.744 m with an imperial, (inches), tape measure?”

    Yeah you just convert to MM, then multiply by 24.5, or is it 25.4….lol I forget my engineering days working on imperial machines with metric drawings. Oh thank the human brain for inveting metric displays that could be “retro” fitted to imperial milling machines and lathes.

  101. I used to be a proud Brit, living in a small yet proud & great nation. Sadly these days I tend to become typically an embarrassed Brit making excuses for the half-wits who represent us from time to time. This time though, this takes the biscuit!

    I wonder how many measurements were actually taken on the ice, & how mant were made back at base ready for “processing & interpretation”? Always a worry when data has to be “interpreted”. Tis a pity they couldn’t have died an honorable death up there to lend a degree of romantic drama to it all, the heroic Brits dying in their efforts to achieve greatness & all that. Oh well.

    BTW John Servais, :-))

    just put your hands up & apologise, most on this site will not hold it against you, & you’ll be amased at how much repsect you will gain by doing so. Remember, it’s not making a mistake that causes problems, it’s not admitting it when one has made one, & acknowledging so. We’re all human & fallible, even Mr Watts & co acknowledge any typos, misleading data & statements & other errors as they occur, because readers here let them know it in no uncertain yet courteous terms! Stick to this site, Climate Audit, Climate Sceptics, Junkcscience, Numberwatch, et al, & you will learn a lot!

  102. Chris Schoneveld (04:57:49) :

    ***I am a bit puzzled why everybody is at John Servais’ throat. He correctly referred to the text in the main body of the article rather then the caption of a photograph to which Steve referred. I think Steve owes John an apology. ***.

    Which was the more recent article? I believe that Steve was referring to the most recent article in which they “changed” the location of the North Pole. Steve is not required to refer to 3 day old articles. John should have checked before sending insulting messages.

  103. Some here are arguing that it is OK for a newspaper to print incorrect information, as long as somewhere else they print more accurate information. Now that is an interesting point of view.

    The “battled to the North Pole” and found ice “thinner than expected.” You want to let that slide?

  104. Chris,

    It is not my job to be editor of The Guardian. That job belongs to the editors of The Guardian.

  105. Steve:

    Thanks for your thoughts on pickup of drums and other materials used by the Catlin expedition. I will be in Resolute in a month or so and it will be interesting to talk with the locals and to hear their thoughts on the whole thing.

    And I take your point : “NO ONE is expecting temperatures above freezing at the pole. It may become ice free in summer but not winter. Can we drop the childish references to “sunbathing” please.” Guess I was thinking of the photo accompanying your post on May 11.

    On a different, but related topic – permafrost. For 8 years I worked as Chief Geologist at the Lupin gold mine, not too far south of the Arctic Circle in what was then the NWT. You might be interested in knowing that in situ rock temperatures decreased with depth from surface to about 300 metres. Coldest in situ temperatures I recall were about -12C. We did not cross the 0C mark until about 550m. Obviously, the colder temperatures at depth are a relic of the last glacial epoch and the gradual increase in rock temps from about 300m to surface are a function of the warming that has taken place since then.

  106. One comment of team member published on the Catlin web site was about the fact that the drift moved them closer to the North Pole. It was made after the last re-suply and was something like this (but not exactly these words!) : “The drift is good since we then can complete as much as possible of the very important scientific study which after all is why we are here.”

    What is the point to stay on the same flake of ice and do the scientifically important job when it isn’t scientifically tolerable then?

    Ann said a few weeks before that education is important, and that she used her math skill to calculate how long distance they have to achieve each day to reach the North Pole. Then, late in April, they had to make 16 km a day or something… I made that scientifically important calculation in a second! It felt like I saved the Earth.

  107. One comment from team member published on the Catlin web site was about the fact that the drift moved them closer to the North Pole. It was made after the last re-suply and was something like this (not exactly these words!) : “The drift is good since we then can complete as much as possible of this very important scientific study which after all is the reason why we’re here.”

    What is the point to stay on the same flake of ice and do “scientifically important job” when that isn’t scientifically tolerable?

    Ann said a few weeks before that education is important, and that she used her math skill to calculate how long distance they have to achieve each day to reach the North Pole. Then, late in April, they had to make 16 km a day or something… I made that scientifically important calculation in a second and felt like I could have saved the Earth… Not exactly, maybe… ;)

  108. The Catlin expedition will deserve several of the Armageddon´s False Prophet next slides presentation.
    HE is collecting material for HIS next roll over you in NH summer time.
    I do predict you will have forcefully to give tithes to HIS most devilish cause.
    Get all the “male garlic” you can!

  109. Chris Schoneveld (04:57:49) :

    **I am a bit puzzled why everybody is at John Servais’ throat. He correctly referred to the text in the main body of the article rather then the caption of a photograph to which Steve referred. I think Steve owes John an apology. **

    John refers to a 3 day old article. I believe that Steve’s article was recent which suggests that the media “moved” the North Pole. It is up to John to verify this before send insulting comments.

  110. For those of you who would like to see the results the Catlin team achieved there is a spreadsheet of values on this link:

    http://www.catlinarcticsurvey.com/science

    The whole spreadsheet seems to be a bit disorganised (does that surprise anyone?) and it doesn’t seem to show individual measurements, rather averages.

    There appear to be many days when measurements weren’t made.

    I found it when I was looking for evidence of the (BBC’s) claim of 1500 ice thickness measurements, which, considering the effort expended in drilling each hole (according to information supplied in earlier posts on WUWT) seemed rather high. 1500 measurements over 73 days is roughly 20 holes a day and that’s without accounting for the days when no measurements were taken?

    The Methodology document, also at the same location, states that 10 holes a day were drilled, when conditions permitted, over a 3 to 5 hour period. Perhaps they made multiple measurement down each hole.

    I would be interested in an opinion on these two dosuments from someone who understands the subject.

    I also see the start of an explanation of why the first year ice thickness would appear to be so high. Weather conditions at the start of the “survey” didn’t allow measuremnets to be taken, so of course all those low ice thickness figures that they should have obtained then weren’t included, thus biassing the results towards the thicker, more recently mesured, ice.

  111. MSM slowly turning around:

    On CNN-Money, John Christy of UAH says loud and clear what he thinks about climate alarmism. Here’s a part of the CNN intro:

    Christy is actually the environmental lobby’s worst nightmare – an accomplished climate scientist with no ties to Big Oil who has produced reams and reams of data that undermine arguments that the earth’s atmosphere is warming at an unusual rate and question whether the remedies being talked about in Congress will actually do any good.

    Here’s the article
    http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/14/magazines/fortune/globalwarming.fortune/?postversion=2009051412

  112. We don’t know that “John Servais” on this site is the same person running the site which he mentions.

    On the other hand, someone posting as Watts on that site still seems to think that human population is growing explosively; perhaps he once was told that and because it’s not his field he hasn’t bothered looking at the population patterns. There also are questions about what wiped out the Mastodons and the Clovis culture; there is evidence supporting an impact or airburst event.

  113. Be interested to know what you guys think of the data Catlin posted on its own site in excel format. I’ve tried every which way I know to extrapolate the sheet data into 16,000 datapoints but just can’t get anywhere near. Standard dev. doesn’t pass muster either.

    http://www.catlinarcticsurvey.com/science

  114. —————
    Chris Schoneveld (04:57:49) :

    I am a bit puzzled why everybody is at John Servais’ throat. He correctly referred to the text in the main body of the article rather then the caption of a photograph to which Steve referred. I think Steve owes John an apology.
    ——————

    Let me explain it more s-l-o-w-l-y… in a photo essay on the Guardian website dedicated to the Caitlin expedition they claim that the expedition reached the North Pole, a clear objective of the survey.

    Your argument is that the Guardian is right because they have the correct information in another location. So if I make a blog entry under science that says that a scientist invented cold fusion, then later on write a new post on that site in a different part say under world events that says he gave up after getting only half way to inventing cold fusion, and do not update my previous post with a correction then that is OK beans by you?

  115. ‘…Strictly speaking, “battling to” a destination does not imply with 100 surety that the destination was achieved.’

    The ex-English teacher in me would disagree. The preposition ‘to’ in this usage explicitly identifies ‘goal of motion’; joined with a verb in the simple past tense, it explicitly claims arrival at that goal.

    The preposition ‘toward’, on the other hand, does not claim arrival. If I say, as a resident of New Jersey, ‘I drove to New York,’ I am explicitly saying that I arrived there. If, however, I say ‘I drove toward New York, I am not claiming arrival. Perhaps I turned off at Fort Lee. The difference between ‘to’ and ‘toward’, in this latter case, would save me $8.00 one way.

    How many thousands of readers of the Guardian, or of any newspaper, read the entire article (Please turn to page B-25)? How many ‘readers’ would have simply addressed their attention to the photo and its caption, and come away with the entirely erroneous impression that the Caitlin team did arrive at their ‘goal of motion’?

    How many propagandists take advantage of this propensity of readers?

  116. John A (03:09:08) :

    I am baffled by the comment that the link I gave triggered Norton security, since its a link to a file on Picasa.

    I’m baffled why anyone would install any Norton product.

  117. Let me bore everyone a bit more. The tense of the verb form makes a big difference. ‘They are/were battling to the North Pole’ would identify a goal-directed motion in progress at this time/at some past time; this sentence would claim nothing about the ultimate success of the journey. But ‘they have battled to the North Pole’, with the verb in the perfective aspect, definitely claims successful completion.

  118. Ian

    I do not think think any ammunition has been supplied to the AGW movement because this is a non-science issue it is about MSM bias and bad journalism and really poor content editing. Just like if there is an error in a post on any “DENIER SOURCE” it is immediately pointed out and commented on across the blogosphere with vile mockery. If anything these posts create little tempests in teapots to allow myself and others to vent at what frustrates us without bringing the science into it.

    If you look at my post about the the New Thermohaline Model you will see I tend to take a more pragmatic view on things scientific and warn about irrational exurberence when new papers are published as to not provide an opening for ridicule.

  119. “May, 2009 shows the greatest ice extent in the AMSR-E record, which seems to contradict Hadow’s highly publicised remarks about Arctic ice health.”

    I bet you that the NSIDC graph would never hit the 1979-2000 line with the winnings going to charity Steve and you didn’t take me up on my offer.

    How about the same for the JAXA graph, I bet it will not be above 2008 come June 1st, this time do you feel confident enough to put your money where you mouth is? Money goes to London Air Ambulance.

    Regards

    Andy

  120. Re: Catlin Fuel Drums

    Fuel drums are supposed to be marked with the user’s name. As they can be recyled many times they could have many names on them.
    I contacted Canadian Authorities (Nunavut Environment, Canadian Coast Guard and Indian and Northern Affairs) to determine if the Catlin Expedition made any assurances that they would retrive all drums. I only received a reply from Nunavut Environment. They said “contact Indian and Northern Affairs. So far I haven’t heard from Indian and Northern Affairs or Coast guard nor do I expect to!!

  121. AnonyMoose,

    This might help you with your math.

    9,000.000.000 people X 631 years / (30 years/generation) = 189,300,000,000 people.

    You seem to have forgotten that people die and are replaced by other people. You don’t need any growth past mid-century, much less “explosive growth.”

    It never ceases to amaze me the number of people who will take aggressive potshots – without thinking through what they are saying.

    And no, it is not OK to accuse other people of “making up quotes.” Particularly when they are properly cited and referenced.

  122. AndyW,

    No doubt the fact that NSIDC Arctic ice extent is about 1/2 std dev below the 1979-2000 mean is a sign of imminent global meltdown. I suggest you move to higher ground – immediately.

  123. Alan the Brit (05:54:49) :

    I used to be a proud Brit, living in a small yet proud & great nation. Sadly these days I tend to become typically an embarrassed Brit making excuses for the half-wits who represent us from time to time. This time though, this takes the biscuit!

    Steady on old chap. We British have a rich history of fearless exploitation.

  124. The BBC view of Climate Change

    A couple of days ago I complained about the biased coverage of the Catlin “survey” mission. I have received a reply, and this clearly states the BBC stance:

    “I understand you were unhappy about a report following the Catlin Arctic expedition team as you felt conjecture rather than absolute scientific fact was given to explain the thinning of Arctic ice fields. I appreciate you felt our report was biased towards a particular global warming perspective and note you have strong views regarding this matter.

    Climate change and the retreat of artic ice is one of the most high profile news stories of recent years and while we’re fully committed to balanced and impartial coverage of the issue, the overwhelming scientific opinion is that the ice is retreating. We’ve an obligation to reflect this broad scientific agreement on climate change and we reflect this accordingly; however, we do aim to ensure that we also offer time to the dissenting voices.

    While it mightn’t always be possible to reflect all opinions in one programme we charge our editors with ensuring that all relevant voices are heard over a reasonable period of time across our programming output, and this has included our main news broadcasts and flagship programmes such as ‘Newsnight’.

    It may be of interest to you that the recent Catlin findings have been scrutinised and analysed on our climate change blog at:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/climatechange/2009/05/catlin_arctic_survey_success.html

    I acknowledge you may continue to hold differing views regarding this particular report; however I can assure you that I’ve registered your comments on our audience log. This is the internal report of audience feedback which we compile daily for all programme makers and commissioning executives within the BBC, and also their senior management. It ensures that your points, and all other comments we receive, are circulated and considered across the BBC.”

    So there you have it, the BBC is there to reflect concensus views. RIP broadcast journalism. But if you want to influence the BBC, keep complaining.

  125. Peter Plail, at least you received a reply from the BBC. I’m still awaiting mine. Judging by the one you’ve recieved it’s hardly worth the wait for mine. The content is puerile.

    “…while we’re fully committed to balanced and impartial coverage of the issue, the overwhelming scientific opinion is that the ice is retreating.”

    Balanced and impartial? Overwhelming scientific evidence? What utter garbage!

    It’s criminal that I, along with millions of other TV Licence payers, am legally compelled to fund this disgraceful BBC twaddle.

  126. Re: Richard Henry Lee (22:24:04)

    Many thanks Richard. That’s quite an interesting route. The survey team was actually “traveling” in circles on several occasions (idle in their tents awaiting resupply, no doubt).

  127. Steven, this is also from the so-called “accurate” Guardian article: “‘They will be picked up 490km from the pole, less than half way there.”

    But you named this article: “The Guardian Relocates The North Pole By 500km”

    See what I mean? We can agree on many things regarding hypes and media reporting, but this blog post of yours isn’t much better IMO. And it’s not the first time either. Sometimes you do great work, but sometimes you write articles like this one.

  128. I distinctly remember that somebody of the air support team of the Catlin expedition said, that they prefer to pick people from the Arctic until the end of April, later it may be too dangerous for landing.
    How does that agree with a pick-up in the middle of May, according to Pen due to “early ice melt”???

  129. Oh my!!

    I live in Washington State, USA. I am almost directly in line with the diraction of change for the North Pole.
    Climatologically, is this going to cause climate change for me, now living 500km closer to the pole?
    Politically, is Canada going to lay claim to the state of Washington?
    I had better buy some warmer winter wear and learn to speak Canadian, EY!

  130. That BBC statement seems a little less biased than they used to be. I gather they used to say that they did not give voice to contrarian opinions on AGW because these contrarians were in such a minority that to report their view would give the public a false impression that there really were two sides to the debate of equal weight.

  131. I too was so incensed by the BBc coverage of the return of the three stooges that I was moved to complain. The BBC reply was:-

    Thanks for your e-mail regarding BBC News at Six’ broadcast on 13 May.

    I understand you feel a report on the programme about the melting polar ice caps misrepresented the facts as arctic ice is at its thickest for 50 years. – (I actually wrote that “global ice is above the average of the past 50 years”) – I note you also feel the footage of the crew of Catlin was disingenuous and staged.

    Climate change and the retreat of artic ice is one of the most high profile news stories of recent years and while we’re fully committed to balanced and impartial coverage of the issue, the overwhelming scientific opinion is that the ice is retreating. We’ve an obligation to reflect this broad scientific agreement on climate change and we reflect this accordingly; however, we do aim to ensure that we also offer time to the dissenting voices.

    While it mightn’t always be possible to reflect all opinions in one programme we charge our editors with ensuring that all relevant voices are heard over a reasonable period of time across our programming output, and this has included our main news broadcasts and flagship programmes such as ‘Newsnight’.

    Nevertheless I appreciate your strongly held views on this matter and with them in mind I’d like to take this opportunity to assure you that I’ve recorded your comments onto our audience log. This is an internal daily report of audience feedback which is circulated to many BBC staff including senior management, producers and channel controllers.

    The audience logs are seen as important documents that can help shape decisions about future programming and content.

    Thanks once again for contacting us with your thoughts.

    Anyone out there heard the dissenting voices that the BBC gives time to?

  132. From the Catlin web site : Expedition Leader Pen Hadow revealed that initial Survey results show the average ice thickness in the region to be 1.774m.

    An average reported to 1 mm precision. I wonder if they really measured the ice to a precision of 1 mm. I wonder if it’s even possible on real snow covered ice with variable texture.

    Some how I suspect this is more False Precision in an average unsportable by the raw data.

  133. Neven,

    The fact that The Guardian occasionally prints some accurate information about the Arctic does not preclude me from poking fun at them the rest of the time.

  134. OK, Neven et. al have convinced me. The Guardian really didn’t say what they said. (How daft of me to think that I could cut and paste verbatim from their web site, and have it be what they actually wrote.)

    After 73 days, the Catlin Arctic Survey has come to an end. Pen Hadow’s team of British Arctic explorers have battled to the North Pole through freezing conditions collecting data about the ice en route.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/gallery/2009/mar/24/catlin-arctic-survey-arctic?picture=347364812

  135. Steven Goddard:

    There will undoubtedly be a Catlin press conference to highlight the “science” showing that the Arctic is melting “faster than expected”. I would hope you could attend to ask some probing questions.

    Here’s a working list of questions which real science journalists might ask:

    1) On April 2 Hadow reported “We’ve noticed that the ice is older and thicker than before”. When you were interviewed at the pick up site, he indicated that the ice was expected to be “much thicker” than the 1.77m average recorder during the trek. How do you square that discrepancy?

    2) The Catlin website reports “First year ice is typically thinner than 2 m, while Multi-year ice is generally thicker than 3 m.” Since the route was primarily planned over first year ice, how is an average measurement of 1.77m surprising?

    3) Also on the website it is claimed: “The Catlin Arctic Survey’s route was specifically designed so that the team would begin the expedition on multi-year ice, transit briefly through a region primarily covered with first-year ice, then enter a region in which second-year ice now prevails.” The track of the route clearly shows most of the transit over primarily first year ice. Why was the plan changed?

    4) The expedition was terminated after 73 days of the 100 days planned, largely explained by the onset of ice melt. This is in spite of the 3rd slowest April ice melt recorded in the recent past. That would suggest that under recent ice melts history the plan was too ambitious?

    Please feel free to add other discrepancies. Maybe some journalist with cajones will be at the press conferences.

  136. The Russians certainly have more common sense than the three Catlin stooges:

    Russian motorists have reached the North Pole for the first time in an Arctic expedition. The new record has been set by a team of seven Russians. They set out for the Pole from the Severnaya Zemlya archipelago on two experimental Russian-made YEMELYA cars on the 20th of March, covered over 1,100 kilometres on pack ice, and reached the earth’s northern pole on Sunday, the 26th of April. The jubilant team of seasoned travellers is now receiving congratulations from across Russia. [source]

  137. “Strictly speaking, ‘battling to’ a destination does not imply with 100 surety that the destination was achieved, merely that the direction of any progress was towards that destination. Its the perfect weasel word for this situation.”

    In that case, I “battled to the North Pole” yesterday in my car. I drove from Holly Springs, NC to northern Raleigh, ending up at least a dozen miles farther north than I started. That’s progress toward the North Pole!

    Since I also traveled a considerable distance east, I “battled to” Morocco, Iran, and China at the same time.

    On my way home, I “battled to” Japan, Peru, and Chile.

  138. Perhaps in Monbiot’s neighborhood it gets instantly dark when the sun sets?

    People driving their cars have to remember to turn their lights on immediately to avoid massive pile ups, as the landscape flips instantly from day to night. Parents tell their children to be home 10 minutes before sunset. Birds crash into walls and human eyes have no opportunity to adjust to the sudden onset of total darkness.

    Imagine hitting a golf ball and having the course switch to total darkness before it hits the ground.

  139. E.M Smith 11.01.04

    The excel sheet posted on the science tab of the Catlin site shows astounding precision
    Col. 1+2 =coordinates, col 3 ‘ice thickness. That man Pen sure knows how to use a tape measure (cm).

    83.56.09 128.55.43 12/04/2009 170.9285714

  140. Steven Goddard: “The fact that The Guardian occasionally prints some accurate information about the Arctic does not preclude me from poking fun at them the rest of the time.”

    If that’s what it’s about I’m 100% sure you can find something every day, as there are several hundreds of people involved in making a news paper (and content for a website), and some of them are bound to screw up or lay it on if it makes for better headlines.

    But this time you did exactly the same IMO, by putting your magnifying glass on a photo caption. A photo caption, for crying out loud! And it didn’t even state something that spectacular.

    Just stick to the science. Who gives a rat’s ass about the Catlin expedition. I’m an ‘alarmist’ and I couldn’t care less about the hype. And if you can’t contain yourself and just have to poke fun (I’ll grant that you have a large audience for it here), then make sure it’s obvious you’re doing so, for example by tagging it under ‘fun stuff’.

  141. Weren’t they dragging a radar unit behind them? That MIGHT (one of those words again) account for the “precision” of the ice thickness?

  142. “Steve (12:08:09) :
    …ice thickness
    83.56.09 128.55.43 12/04/2009 170.9285714”

    I’m pretty sure that the last 4 should be a 3 which indicates much thinner ice.

    Mike

  143. “E.M.Smith (11:01:04) :

    From the Catlin web site : Expedition Leader Pen Hadow revealed that initial Survey results show the average ice thickness in the region to be 1.774m.

    An average reported to 1 mm precision. I wonder if they really measured the ice to a precision of 1 mm. I wonder if it’s even possible on real snow covered ice with variable texture.”

    The mean is more precise that a single measurement (if you measure to a precision of, say, 1 cm, you divide that by the square root of the number of measurements to get the precision of the mean. So if you have 100 values, it will be 1 mm)

  144. A thought:

    Is anybody else having Catlin withdrawal?

    Dang.

    Schadenfreude was giving me a little upper in these crazy times.

  145. ” pwl (12:33:47) :

    Weren’t they dragging a radar unit behind them? That MIGHT (one of those words again) account for the “precision” of the ice thickness?”

    The radar sets allegedly broke, perhaps due to excessive human frustration over the radar providing data that contradicted the expedition members beliefs.

    The ‘data’ provided was hand measured by drilling holes and using an old tape measure, trusting in the high integrity and honesty of Pen Hadow.

  146. Gee, John Servais shoots his mouth off on this blog and never replies to those who challenge his comment. Worse, he never apologizes.
    The Caitlin expedition deserves to be exposed everywhere possible as the farce and lie it was. This exposure will never be at the BBC or Guardian, who committed early to the scientific validity of this ridiculous exercise. They don’t even have the decency to bury the story, rather they lie about the results and claim great success.

  147. “Mike Bryant (12:42:16) :

    “Steve (12:08:09) :
    …ice thickness
    83.56.09 128.55.43 12/04/2009 170.9285714″

    I’m pretty sure that the last 4 should be a 3 which indicates much thinner ice.

    Mike”

    0.0285714 etc etc is the beginning of 0.2 divided by 7. I have no idea why he divided something by 7. And yes, the precision is nonsense.

  148. Neven, please don’t cry. Just because your heroes are being subjected to the ridicule they deserve accuse others of making fun of them rather than being reasonable about small errors. This whole expedition is a scientific farce. The data gathering, the quotes claiming thin ice. Everything.
    The photo caption was not a mistake. It was there to gain the attention of readers, many of whom will quickly move on to another picture, satisfied they now know about the Caitlin expedition to the North Pole. Classic tabloid journalism.

  149. John Servais (16:58:28) :

    It was sarcasm John. Catlin was supposed to be picked up at the North Pole. But conditions were harsh, worse than they expected. They were unprepared. So they ended up short of the North Pole. They cannot claim success can they? And if they claim success then that will mean they accomplished their goals. Thus, they are picked up at the North Pole.

    Makes perfect sense doesn’t it? ;)

  150. Did anyone notice that thick fur lining on their hoods? Looks like fox or wolf to me. Where is PETA when you need them?

  151. One comment on the misstatement in the photo caption:

    Captions are known to be read more frequently than any other print element.

    This does not mean the Guardian exploited their knowledge of reading patterns. Neither does it mean that they did not exploit their knowledge of reading patterns.

  152. So the BBC claim the overwhelming consesus is that the ice is thinning.
    From what I have seen on this site that may have been the view two years ago but not now.
    With the change in the sun sycle well established and less heat around there is only one way the ice is going…thicker.

  153. There’s no need to get bogged down in a semantic argument over grammar or caption vs full article. The substantive argument is that the Guardian lacks the objectivity to point out the Catlin expedition had NO realistic plan to make it to the pole from the start. As Eric Naegle points out, even at the most optimistic rate, the expedition could not have reached the pole in time to be safely extracted. How can one argue that they were battling “toward” the pole, when there was no feasible intention to get there.

    Instead, the Guardian is complicit in the Catlin deception (sounds like a Ludlum title?), attempting to give credence to claims of any success, as well as claims of thinner ice or earlier melts.

  154. “will undertake a 120 day, 2000km crossing of the ice cap ”

    The Vanco Arctic Survey was planned for a year earlier and is the same survey.
    (original URL redirects to guess where)

    “History The Vanco Arctic Survey will follow in the footsteps of Sir Wally Herbert, whose team became the first in the world to walk to the North Geographic Pole, and on to cross the entire Arctic Ocean, a feat accomplished after eighteen months on the ice, as recently as 1969.

    Sir Wally’s team-mate Fritz Koerniker, made daily ice core readings as they progressed, and Hadow believes these are the only accurate readings currently in existence. He plans to build on Sir Wally’s findings, nearly forty years on.”

    http://www.vanco.com/ContentManager/Document.asp?GroupId=2&TypeId=309&Id=3141

  155. another great article that completely disproves global warming, Im sure this one will convert a few alarmists

    REPLY: Oh puhleeeze. It’s about shoddy reporting of a shoddy expedition. The snark meter jumped off the scale from your comment.- Anthony

  156. Martin G Atkins:-))

    Now that is the real British fighting spirit! I’d forgotting that sketch the tears of laughter a still rolling even after a third view!

    AtB

  157. OT: At spaceweather .com there is an acceptance of Sunspot 1017 to be one of the “first” sunspots of SC24. Is this now “settled ” ?

    “It’s hard to take a sunspot seriously when it looks like smashed fruit. Sunspot 1017 is, however, important in disproportion to its size or menace. It is one of the first sunspots of long-awaited Solar Cycle 24 expected to peak in May 2013. This makes it a herald of bigger things to come–and we don’t mean bigger pineapple. If forecasters are correct, solar activity should begin to pick up in late 2009 or early 2010, breaking the monotony of deep solar minimum with noticeably larger sunspots and occasional solar flares; a rapid ascent toward stormy solar maximum would follow in 2011 and 2012. Stay tuned…..”.

  158. Mike Lorrey (14:06:42) :

    The radar sets allegedly broke, perhaps due to excessive human frustration over the radar providing data that contradicted the expedition members beliefs.

    Were any of the radar data transmitted back? It would be interesting to see how they compare with the subsequent ‘manual’ stuff!

    Interesting also that even Associated Press gets “recent but undated photo[s] provided by Catlin Arctic Survey”. Either their PR team doesn’t know how to retain EXIF (camera) data, or they do and are intent on removing it. If so, why?

  159. Jim Papsdorf (02:01:31) :

    OT: At spaceweather .com there is an acceptance of Sunspot 1017 to be one of the “first” sunspots of SC24. Is this now “settled ” ?

    The NEW instrument for seeing ghost spots, for sure, is the OUIJA BOARD :-)

  160. This may have been canvassed previously, if so, my apologies. But why is there a small bump in the ice record, shown on this site from IARC-JAXA exactly at the start of June every year. Some sort of adjustment ?

  161. Congratulations to Steven. This finding will surely be the final nail in the coffin of the AGW “theory”.

  162. Glug, AGW is a hypothesis not a theory. A hypothesis does not become a theory until it has passed some tests.

  163. ak (12:27:26) : said
    “remember when WUWT couldn’t locate Tonga properly on a map?”

    Extract from notreallywikipedia

    “It is well known that Tonga is a floating island. At times its speed has been scientifcally measured at over 120 miles in a day. This makes it impossible to locate accurately on a map.”

    See, I knew there would be a rational explanation :)

    TonyB

  164. ak (12:27:26) :

    “remember when WUWT couldn’t locate Tonga properly on a map?
    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/19/undersea-volcanic-eruption-in-tonga/
    good times. lol”

    Yes, in that thread you said:
    “lol. the yellow pin of tonga and the pink arrow are not pointing at the same place!”

    Apparently you didn’t or couldn’t understand the caption concerning the pink arrow:

    “I found it interesting because the SST maps show a warm anomaly in that region, and extending off to the east.”

    The pink arrow was not intended to point “at the same place” as Tonga. Tonga *was* properly located.

    Are you perhaps related to Monbiot?

  165. Glenn

    You have ruined a good story and have demonstrated that ‘notreallywikipedia’ is not as thoroughly reliable as the original :)

    tonyb

  166. 20 minutes later i wrote… (i’ll admit the first comment was posted hastily)

    “okay, the distance between even the small yellow area one grid-block west of the arrow (est. 26S, 163W) and not the large anomaly that the arrow points towards, is nearly 900 miles from the island of tonga!”

    And the two are related how?

    “I found it interesting because the SST maps show a warm anomaly in that region, and extending off to the east.”

    that’s a broad definition of region! It’s nice to know that i live in the region of both New York City and Los Angeles, CA!

  167. ak,

    The arrow was pointing to the warm region – not to Tonga. The problem is with your reading comprehension and trigger finger.

    BTW – How do you feel about Gavin Schmidt’s claim that he can calculate a global temperature from 60 locations?

  168. Steven Goddard (17:09:38) :

    “ak,

    The arrow was pointing to the warm region – not to Tonga. The problem is with your reading comprehension and trigger finger.”

    After seeing his last attempt to save face, I’d say he has more problems than those.

    But on the subject, I don’t think the earthquake near Tonga at the same time of the eruption was mentioned in the thread
    http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsww/Quakes/us2009ejbr.php
    and that earthquakes are sometimes known to be preceded by increased surface temperatures.
    http://www.gisdevelopment.net/application/natural_hazards/earthquakes/mi08_299.htm
    “Rise in land surface temperature (LST) before an impending earthquake has been detected for 23 earthquakes”

    Just a thought. This may prove to be interesting if you are still interested
    http://www.mantleplumes.org/Cook-Austral.html

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