Congratulations to Harold Ambler, who frequents here in comments, for breaking the climate “glass ceiling” at HuffPo. This essay is something I thought I’d never see there. Next stop: Daily Kos? – Anthony
By Harold Ambler on The Huffington Post
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You are probably wondering whether President-elect Obama owes the world an apology for his actions regarding global warming. The answer is, not yet. There is one person, however, who does. You have probably guessed his name: Al Gore.
Mr. Gore has stated, regarding climate change, that “the science is in.” Well, he is absolutely right about that, except for one tiny thing. It is the biggest whopper ever sold to the public in the history of humankind.
What is wrong with the statement? A brief list:
1. First, the expression “climate change” itself is a redundancy, and contains a lie. Climate has always changed, and always will. There has been no stable period of climate during the Holocene, our own climatic era, which began with the end of the last ice age 12,000 years ago. During the Holocene there have been numerous sub-periods with dramatically varied climate, such as the warm Holocene Optimum (7,000 B.C. to 3,000 B.C., during which humanity began to flourish, and advance technologically), the warm Roman Optimum (200 B.C. to 400 A.D., a time of abundant crops that promoted the empire), the cold Dark Ages (400 A.D. to 900 A.D., during which the Nile River froze, major cities were abandoned, the Roman Empire fell apart, and pestilence and famine were widespread), the Medieval Warm Period (900 A.D. to 1300 A.D., during which agriculture flourished, wealth increased, and dozens of lavish examples of Gothic architecture were created), the Little Ice Age (1300 to 1850, during much of which plague, crop failures, witch burnings, food riots — and even revolutions, including the French Revolution — were the rule of thumb), followed by our own time of relative warmth (1850 to present, during which population has increased, technology and medical advances have been astonishing, and agriculture has flourished).
So, no one needs to say the words “climate” and “change” in the same breath — it is assumed, by anyone with any level of knowledge, that climate changes. That is the redundancy to which I alluded. The lie is the suggestion that climate has ever been stable. Mr. Gore has used a famously inaccurate graph, known as the “Mann Hockey Stick,” created by the scientist Michael Mann, showing that the modern rise in temperatures is unprecedented, and that the dramatic changes in climate just described did not take place. They did. One last thought on the expression “climate change”: It is a retreat from the earlier expression used by alarmists, “manmade global warming,” which was more easily debunked. There are people in Mr. Gore’s camp who now use instances of cold temperatures to prove the existence of “climate change,” which is absurd, obscene, even.
2. Mr. Gore has gone so far to discourage debate on climate as to refer to those who question his simplistic view of the atmosphere as “flat-Earthers.” This, too, is right on target, except for one tiny detail. It is exactly the opposite of the truth.
Indeed, it is Mr. Gore and his brethren who are flat-Earthers. Mr. Gore states, ad nauseum, that carbon dioxide rules climate in frightening and unpredictable, and new, ways. When he shows the hockey stick graph of temperature and plots it against reconstructed C02 levels in An Inconvenient Truth, he says that the two clearly have an obvious correlation. “Their relationship is actually very complicated,” he says, “but there is one relationship that is far more powerful than all the others, and it is this: When there is more carbon dioxide, the temperature gets warmer.” The word “complicated” here is among the most significant Mr. Gore has uttered on the subject of climate and is, at best, a deliberate act of obfuscation. Why? Because it turns out that there is an 800-year lag between temperature and carbon dioxide, unlike the sense conveyed by Mr. Gore’s graph. You are probably wondering by now — and if you are not, you should be — which rises first, carbon dioxide or temperature. The answer? Temperature. In every case, the ice-core data shows that temperature rises precede rises in carbon dioxide by, on average, 800 years. In fact, the relationship is not “complicated.” When the ocean-atmosphere system warms, the oceans discharge vast quantities of carbon dioxide in a process known as de-gassing. For this reason, warm and cold years show up on the Mauna Loa C02 measurements even in the short term. For instance, the post-Pinatubo-eruption year of 1993 shows the lowest C02 increase since measurements have been kept. When did the highest C02 increase take place? During the super El Niño year of 1998.
3. What the alarmists now state is that past episodes of warming were not caused by C02 but amplified by it, which is debatable, for many reasons, but, more important, is a far cry from the version of events sold to the public by Mr. Gore.
Meanwhile, the theory that carbon dioxide “drives” climate in any meaningful way is simply wrong and, again, evidence of a “flat-Earth” mentality. Carbon dioxide cannot absorb an unlimited amount of infrared radiation. Why not? Because it only absorbs heat along limited bandwidths, and is already absorbing just about everything it can. That is why plotted on a graph, C02’s ability to capture heat follows a logarithmic curve. We are already very near the maximum absorption level. Further, the IPCC Fourth Assessment, like all the ones before it, is based on computer models that presume a positive feedback of atmospheric warming via increased water vapor.
4. This mechanism has never been shown to exist. Indeed, increased temperature leads to increased evaporation of the oceans, which leads to increased cloud cover (one cooling effect) and increased precipitation (a bigger cooling effect). Within certain bounds, in other words, the ocean-atmosphere system has a very effective self-regulating tendency. By the way, water vapor is far more prevalent, and relevant, in the atmosphere than carbon dioxide — a trace gas. Water vapor’s absorption spectrum also overlays that of carbon dioxide. They cannot both absorb the same energy! The relative might of water vapor and relative weakness of carbon dioxide is exemplified by the extraordinary cooling experienced each night in desert regions, where water in the atmosphere is nearly non-existent.
If not carbon dioxide, what does “drive” climate? I am glad you are wondering about that. In the short term, it is ocean cycles, principally the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, the “super cycle” of which cooling La Niñas and warming El Niños are parts. Having been in its warm phase, in which El Niños predominate, for the 30 years ending in late 2006, the Pacific Decadal Oscillation switched to its cool phase, in which La Niñas predominate.
Since that time, already, a number of interesting things have taken place. One La Niña lowered temperatures around the globe for about half of the year just ended, and another La Niña shows evidence of beginning in the equatorial Pacific waters. During the last twelve months, many interesting cold-weather events happened to occur: record snow in the European Alps, China, New Zealand, Australia, Brazil, the Pacific Northwest, Alaska, the Rockies, the upper Midwest, Las Vegas, Houston, and New Orleans. There was also, for the first time in at least 100 years, snow in Baghdad.
Concurrent with the switchover of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation to its cool phase the Sun has entered a period of deep slumber. The number of sunspots for 2008 was the second lowest of any year since 1901. That matters less because of fluctuations in the amount of heat generated by the massive star in our near proximity (although there are some fluctuations that may have some measurable effect on global temperatures) and more because of a process best described by the Danish physicist Henrik Svensmark in his complex, but elegant, work The Chilling Stars. In the book, the modern Galileo, for he is nothing less, establishes that cosmic rays from deep space seed clouds over Earth’s oceans. Regulating the number of cosmic rays reaching Earth’s atmosphere is the solar wind; when it is strong, we get fewer cosmic rays. When it is weak, we get more. As NASA has corroborated, the number of cosmic rays passing through our atmosphere is at the maximum level since measurements have been taken, and show no signs of diminishing. The result: the seeding of what some have taken to calling “Svensmark clouds,” low dense clouds, principally over the oceans, that reflect sunlight back to space before it can have its warming effect on whatever is below.
Svensmark has proven, in the minds of most who have given his work a full hearing, that it is this very process that produced the episodes of cooling (and, inversely, warming) of our own era and past eras. The clearest instance of the process, by far, is that of the Maunder Minimum, which refers to a period from 1650 to 1700, during which the Sun had not a single spot on its face. Temperatures around the globe plummeted, with quite adverse effects: crop failures (remember the witch burnings in Europe and Massachusetts?), famine, and societal stress.
Many solar physicists anticipate that the slumbering Sun of early 2009 is likely to continue for at least two solar cycles, or about the next 25 years. Whether the Grand Solar Minimum, if it comes to pass, is as serious as the Maunder Minimum is not knowable, at present. Major solar minima (and maxima, such as the one during the second half of the 20th century) have also been shown to correlate with significant volcanic eruptions. These are likely the result of solar magnetic flux affecting geomagnetic flux, which affects the distribution of magma in Earth’s molten iron core and under its thin mantle. So, let us say, just for the sake of argument, that such an eruption takes place over the course of the next two decades. Like all major eruptions, this one will have a temporary cooling effect on global temperatures, perhaps a large one. The larger the eruption, the greater the effect. History shows that periods of cold are far more stressful to humanity than periods of warm. Would the eruption and consequent cooling be a climate-modifier that exists outside of nature, somehow? Who is the “flat-Earther” now?
What about heat escaping from volcanic vents in the ocean floor? What about the destruction of warming, upper-atmosphere ozone by cosmic rays? I could go on, but space is short. Again, who is the “flat-Earther” here?
The ocean-atmosphere system is not a simple one that can be “ruled” by a trace atmospheric gas. It is a complex, chaotic system, largely modulated by solar effects (both direct and indirect), as shown by the Little Ice Age.
To be told, as I have been, by Mr. Gore, again and again, that carbon dioxide is a grave threat to humankind is not just annoying, by the way, although it is that! To re-tool our economies in an effort to suppress carbon dioxide and its imaginary effect on climate, when other, graver problems exist is, simply put, wrong. Particulate pollution, such as that causing the Asian brown cloud, is a real problem. Two billion people on Earth living without electricity, in darkened huts and hovels polluted by charcoal smoke, is a real problem.
So, let us indeed start a Manhattan Project-like mission to create alternative sources of energy. And, in the meantime, let us neither cripple our own economy by mislabeling carbon dioxide a pollutant nor discourage development in the Third World, where suffering continues unabated, day after day.
Again, Mr. Gore, I accept your apology.
And, Mr. Obama, though I voted for you for a thousand times a thousand reasons, I hope never to need one from you.
P.S. One of the last, desperate canards proposed by climate alarmists is that of the polar ice caps. Look at the “terrible,” “unprecedented” melting in the Arctic in the summer of 2007, they say. Well, the ice in the Arctic basin has always melted and refrozen, and always will. Any researcher who wants to find a single molecule of ice that has been there longer than 30 years is going to have a hard job, because the ice has always been melted from above (by the midnight Sun of summer) and below (by relatively warm ocean currents, possibly amplified by volcanic venting) — and on the sides, again by warm currents. Scientists in the alarmist camp have taken to referring to “old ice,” but, again, this is a misrepresentation of what takes place in the Arctic.
More to the point, 2007 happened also to be the time of maximum historic sea ice in Antarctica. (There are many credible sources of this information, such as the following website maintained by the University of Illinois-Urbana: http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/current.anom.south.jpg). Why, I ask, has Mr. Gore not chosen to mention the record growth of sea ice around Antarctica? If the record melting in the Arctic is significant, then the record sea ice growth around Antarctica is, too, I say. If one is insignificant, then the other one is, too.
For failing to mention the 2007 Antarctic maximum sea ice record a single time, I also accept your apology, Mr. Gore. By the way, your contention that the Arctic basin will be “ice free” in summer within five years (which you said last month in Germany), is one of the most demonstrably false comments you have dared to make. Thank you for that
… than when?
What is your source please for this assertion?
Is geologic history so well known then that, for any given 100 year period of earth’s history, today’s rate of change is 3 orders of magnitude faster?
I think not.
“I don’t particularly like or agree with Al Gore, but I don’t think he owes us an apology for raising the debate to its current intensity.”
Al cannot be given any credit for raising the debate. It is the climate scientists that refute the IPCC and the AGW alarmism that can be credited for that. Al has done everything in his power to prevent and stamp out debate, to the extent that he personally refuses to ever debate the science or the politics of climate change. He will lecture and earn fortunes from pontificating and propagandising about it, but will never EVER debate it. When you refuse to debate your opinion, it shows that you are scared of being found lacking.
Al Gore is a liar, and opportunist and a coward.
… than when?
What is the source for your assertion?
Is the geological CO2 record of the Earth known so well that, for any given 100 year period, the current rate of increase is known to be three orders of magnitude faster?
To add to the record:-
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24876451-7583,00.html
dahduh (14:25:36) :
Is amazed at
“…how authoritative the author of this piece chooses to be;”
Authoritive-ness can only be achieved by substance, not tone, in my opinion,
For example dahduh says:
“But when you sit down and run the numbers, and look at how the rot-vib spectrum changes with temperature, guess what, absorption increases. That’s why you write flipping million-line computer codes, stupid.”
Running the numbers may be very comforting and persuasive to some but you don’t have to set up your own model making industry to qualify as still being able to criticize said models. This is one of the most specious distracters’ used in this debate by the modeling community. The bottom line is if you are making models that predict things you must answer any valid criticism, or is it the case that I can’t ask “why have no models predicted the current plateauing of temperature while CO2 still rose?”
It seems a running theme that you sometimes see this implicit desire to restrict who should be listened to, it seems very convenient to me, you just need to say they are stupid.
Most of this is rebutted in:
http://www.monthlyreview.org/080728farley.php
StuartR: “you don’t have to set up your own model making industry to qualify as still being able to criticize said models”.
Quite right. If you have reason to question the assumptions in any given model, go right ahead, nobody’s stopping you. But take the trouble to study the models, be specific about the failures, and at least have a back-of-the-envelope calculation to justify why you think the faults are significant. I just don’t see that kind of criticism very often; it’s usually of the “my theory of dinosaurs” variety, and if you find some people dismissive then maybe a lack of substance is the problem.
StuartK: “why have no models predicted the current plateauing of temperature while CO2 still rose?”
Huh? You mean this? That’s a plateau? Would you also call 1998 an ‘anomalous peak in temperature’?
There are no error bars on this chart, but given the spread in measurement and model values I wouldn’t even think of posing a question about ‘plateaus’. Can you point to a calculation demonstrating this ‘plateau’ is statistically significant?
Phil. (19:43:54) re; low Ph; It is probably the phosphoric acid in most brown soda.
Statistically the entire manmade-CO2-global-warming argument falls apart. There should be no argument that the earth has been warming since 1850. First there is evidence and second there is the forgotten fact that 1850 was the end of the so-called, little ice-age, (1650-1850.) However, the statistical problem arises from the fact that the planet is roughly 4 billion years old and we are drawing conclusions, scientific or not) from a sampling of 150 years. The earth’s population is roughly 6 billion would any credible statistics be gleaned from a sampling of 225 random people from around the globe? Could an election be accurately predicted from a random sample of 3 American citizens? That is what these scientists are attempting to do.
Ambler’s reference to an 800-year lag between temp and CO2 readings bothers me. If the seasonal changes in Keeling’s Mona Loa graph are evident as regular wiggles, how can anyone claim a multi-century lag time in the broader curve?
Freeman Dyson’s paper, “The Question of Global Warming”, published in N.Y. Times last summer, addresses this issue partly.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/21494
Bill P (10:05:13) :
Ambler’s reference to an 800-year lag between temp and CO2 readings bothers me.
The lag is a typical argument designed for lay people. The lag is not well determined, but it doesn’t really matter, because it is not the lag that shows that CO2 was not causing the ice ages. Solar insolation was and CO2 just tags along because it is driven out of solution at higher temperatures. Note that this is a two-part argument and Joe Sixpack can only understand a one-part argument [so the theory goes], hence activists tend to prefer the one-argument lag. Another case of oversimplification to the point of being ridiculous. By the 800-year lag theory, the CO2 increase we are now seeing must be caused by the MWP 800 years ago. Even Joe can see through that one and therefore doubt the whole thing.
@dahduh (09:07:33) :
I hold my hands up and say I shouldn’t have said plateau, that implies I know something about the future i.e. that world temperature is definitely going to go down, I should have said levelling off. And as for statistical significance, I guess I would have to come back to you with a trend that lasts 30 years, and again I can’t do that.
I still hold that models can be criticised without dealing with every aspect of that, for instance everything in your model may be ticketyboo, making the right assumptions about physics and having perfectly formed mathematical assumptions. However there could be something missing from the model that makes it totally redundant. I know this may sound like a copout, but this could mean “unknown unknowns” are not catered for, or even speculative things like cosmic ray effects could be more significant (they are not in any models are they?).
If so, it seams that only way to check the models worth is by comparing them with some aspect of reality. When you pointed to “this” I saw a blizzard of lines that must be model runs, with thick lines indicating real world temperature projections (after adjustments have been made by the various entities who provide those projections, and also provide the models), I don’t doubt that at least one of model run that was frighteningly spot-on, but I worry about the usefulness of these models. For example, here in the UK the Met office is beginning to make a name for itself by predicting what the next six months weather will be, I don’t know how seriously they want us to take them but I’m sure that if they ever got it right over two seasons they would certainly want to be taken seriously 🙂
In conclusion, really, whilst everything you say about studying the actual models and criticising them in detail can’t be denied as worthwhile, it still remains that the onus is on the people who create these models to show that they have any worth in the real world and have useful predictive power. I know the “precautionary principle” could be invoked, i.e. that we should assume that the worst projections are correct and large-scale endeavours should be taken up to mitigate them. However I think this pre-emptive action could be dangerous for the modelers cause, because when situations occur such as today when the undoubted recent warmth gives way to “surprising” cool periods, then people across the board may end up forever disbelieving the models .
I remain unconvinced that model making is a mature enough science to have this responsibility.
Les Johnson (15:06:44) :
Phil: your
Makes you wonder how the pH of carbonated drinks is 3.7?
Because of the partial pressure of the CO2 above the solution. At 2.5 atmospheres, the pH will indeed be lower, at 3.7.
But your buffer theory said that couldn’t happen!
Les Johnson (14:15:52) :
Carbonic acid in solution, is in equilibrium with the CO2. The vast majority of CO2 stays as CO2, with very little of the CO2 converted to H2CO3.
Carbonic acid is an important BUFFER in blood. It keeps the pH in a narrow range.
In large part because of the return of excess CO2 vis the lungs, note that blood pH is ~7.4 just within range of the pKa of 6.36 (neutral pH ~6.85). Sea water is at a pH of ~8.3, outside the buffer range.
Also I forgot to include in the previous post:
Carbonic acid in solution, is in equilibrium with the CO2. The vast majority of CO2 stays as CO2, with very little of the CO2 converted to H2CO3.
Not true for sea water which typically has CO2 & carbonic acid (H2CO3) = 1%, bicarbonate (HCO3-) = 93%, carbonate (CO3–) =6%.
So the vast majority of dissolved CO2 in sea water is in the form of the HCO3̄̄- (bicarbonate ion)
StuartR (02:21:45) :
dahduh (14:25:36) :
Is amazed at
“…how authoritative the author of this piece chooses to be;”
Authoritive-ness can only be achieved by substance, not tone, in my opinion,
For example dahduh says:
“But when you sit down and run the numbers, and look at how the rot-vib spectrum changes with temperature, guess what, absorption increases. That’s why you write flipping million-line computer codes, stupid.”
Running the numbers may be very comforting and persuasive to some but you don’t have to set up your own model making industry to qualify as still being able to criticize said models.
But you’d better know something about the material that dahduh referred to so that you don’t say such crap as: “Carbon dioxide cannot absorb an unlimited amount of infrared radiation. Why not? Because it only absorbs heat along limited bandwidths, and is already absorbing just about everything it can. That is why plotted on a graph, C02’s ability to capture heat follows a logarithmic curve. We are already very near the maximum absorption level.”
I’ve highlighted the only part of that quote which is accurate!
If the original author wants to criticize the science he’d better get it right, otherwise he deserves whatever flak comes his way.
@Phil. (12:26:02)
“But you’d better know something about the material that dahduh referred to so that you don’t say such crap as: ..”
Thanks for the warning; although I really don’t see what made you think I would say anything like that.
Rotation-vibration effects (I Googled- is that right?) may provide extra complexity to CO2 absorption behavior in real world physics, and Harold Ambler may be remiss in not mentioning that, but I still don’t feel reassured that you only need to write a million lines of guaranteed bug free code to prove this.
StuartR (13:19:56) :
@Phil. (12:26:02)
“But you’d better know something about the material that dahduh referred to so that you don’t say such crap as: ..”
Thanks for the warning; although I really don’t see what made you think I would say anything like that.
You were supporting the original writer’s right to criticize without his being a modeller himself. I was pointing out that he at least needed to be conversant with the science which in this case he clearly isn’t.
Rotation-vibration effects (I Googled- is that right?) may provide extra complexity to CO2 absorption behavior in real world physics, and Harold Ambler may be remiss in not mentioning that, but I still don’t feel reassured that you only need to write a million lines of guaranteed bug free code to prove this.
But issues such as this are why the model needs to be as long as it is. Ambler was remiss in writing a load of crap about something he doesn’t understand. And Ro-vib doesn’t provide extra complexity to CO2 absorption, it’s what CO2 absorption is all about!
Rys Jaggar,
You were asking for the name of the next Einstein that would turn the conventional wisdom upside down,and upset the self-satisfied scientific community? ? We in the scientific community can already name him. He is NASA’s (or was), Dr. Ferenc Miskolczi, working at the Ames Laboratory in Hampton Virginia.
He was one of the Physicists who saw the results of NASA weather data from their then new weather satellites, and tried to reconcile them with conventional theories; and they didn’t correspond.
So he went back to the Swartzchild-Milne mathematical equations, just like Einstein did to Newtons’s equations, and found an unaccounted for error. Like Einstein, the error was in a mathematical simplification that was obviously correct. Except it isn’t.
As with Einstein, the results are fundamental to a different understanding of the way nature operates our atmosphere.
Yes GHG theory works, but in a world of an essentially infinite pool of liquid GHG covering 70% of the Earth ‘s surface, the Earth does NOT run away in Global Warming. Why Not? Because the mathematics says it has achieved a “Saturated GHG” condition billions of years ago, based on energy balance reasons. For every increase of a GHG like CO2, or Methane, the major GHG changes to compensate. It gets rained out of, or evaporated into, the atmosphere as required to a new equilibrium value, to return to the “saturated GHG equilibrium” condition. So the only way to really warm the Earth is to alter the Albedo or percentage of sunlight reflected or absorbed by the Earth. So thermal pollution from Solar installations is possible, but changing CO2 levels do not.
By the way, Dr. Ferenc Miskolczi was muzzled, thoroughly frustrated, prevented from publishing his work, and has quit his lifelong position at NASA. At the same time, Astronomer-trained Dr. Hansen acting as if he is a Climate Scientist, and master of Information technology, neither of which is the case, complains of censorship while conducting over 1400 public media events on NASA paid company time.
At the same time, his mis-management of one of the five historical climate temperature databases deviates from the other four worldwide systems by a inexplicable and continuing set of inconceivable, incomprehensible “corrections” meant to show that other times, like the “Grapes of Wrath dust bowl thirties were not as hot and today is hotter still. In the opinion of this Scientist, he should be publicly excoriated, and then prosecuted for destroying the integrity of one of mankind’s precious historical databases. He is as guilty as those barbarians whose arson burned the Ancient Library of Alexandria.
Just as aside, Dr. Miskolczi is a jovial, round- faced, silvery haired individual who even looks much like Einstein. His peer-reviewed papers published here and abroad, represent a long list of radiation theory work going back into the 1980s. Debate over his theories roil the physics department at many institutions, and requests for reprints of his papers are very high.
Huff Post ought to interview him…
I agree by the way, Mr. Holgren and Ms. Browner are unfortunate appointments by Mr. Obama.
@Phil. (19:40:06) :
My high school physics is many years ago, so my understanding of absorption stems from stuff like remembering the discovery of helium in the Sun’s spectrum and that elements have specific fingerprints that absorb in only certain frequencies. So an understanding of rotational vibration and temperature relation to absorption characteristics of CO2 is hint towards an extra bit of knowledge for me, I guess this means there are some feedback considerations? I will have to look into it more. But dare I say, the idea that CO2 has merely a linear relationship to temperature I think is very prevalent in the casual layman’s mind, when you hear stuff like Venus has a high concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere and its surface can melt lead, you may see what I mean.
So I think Harold Ambler was at least doing something worthwhile by putting out some information about the relationship not been so simple, frankly I still don’t see
“Carbon dioxide cannot absorb an unlimited amount of infrared radiation…”
as being a wrong part of that sentence either.
The models may still be very impressively complicated, but I still wait to see them proved in the real world as being useful.
StuartR (01:16:13) :
@Phil. (19:40:06) :
But dare I say, the idea that CO2 has merely a linear relationship to temperature I think is very prevalent in the casual layman’s mind, when you hear stuff like Venus has a high concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere and its surface can melt lead, you may see what I mean.
Which has nothing to do with it being a linear function, just an increasing one which the log function is.
So I think Harold Ambler was at least doing something worthwhile by putting out some information about the relationship not been so simple,
No he was putting out false information, how is that worthwhile?
frankly I still don’t see
“Carbon dioxide cannot absorb an unlimited amount of infrared radiation…”
as being a wrong part of that sentence either.
Of course it is, just increase the amount of CO2, which is what this whole business is about!
The models may still be very impressively complicated, but I still wait to see them proved in the real world as being useful.
The Hitran model of IR absorption does a really impressive job of modelling that part of the real world and is widely used for that purpose.
Have you seen that Arianna repudiates Ambler’s article? She says that posting it was an error in judgment made by an editor. She believes that there should be no debate about the science of global warming.
So much for reality based.
===============
Phil., you oughta give it up. The feedback of water vapor to initial CO2 forcing in the models is simply wrong. Welcome the truth. It really can’t hurt you.
================================
kim (04:56:24) :
Have you seen that Arianna repudiates Ambler’s article?
link?
Ambler: “So, no one needs to say the words “climate” and “change” in the same breath — it is assumed, by anyone with any level of knowledge, that climate changes.”
This argument merely plays with words and does nothing to refute AGW. In the current context, it is understood that the term ‘climate change’ is shorthand for ‘anthropogenic climate change’.
The assumption in Ambler’s argument is that climate change is always due to natural causes. His argument can be expressed:
P1: Climate always changes, due to natural causes
P2: The climate is currently changing
Conclusion: Therefore, the current climate change is due to natural causes.
This argument is fair enough as far as it goes, since the conclusion follows from the premises, but it totally fails to refute anthropogenic climate change. Why? Because Ambler’s starting point, P1, is the very issue in contention.
He simply assumes that all climate change is due to natural causes, in effect deleting the ‘anthropogenic’ from ‘anthropogenic climate change’ and substituting ‘natural’.
Refuting AGW requires empirical evidence, not mere word-play.
stas peterson
I have read this post on Miskolczi here:
http://www.dailytech.com/Researcher+Basic+Greenhouse+Equations+Totally+Wrong/article10973.htm
Miskolczi showed that the CO2 equations for forcing in climate models where flawed because they treated the atmosphere as infinite instead of a decreasing medium. So the IPCC climate models show the CO2 forcing much stronger than it really is.
And another research published a paper in Journal of Geophysical Research that showed CO2 effective forcing tapers off sharply beyond 300ppm, like a capacitor charging. Here:
http://icecap.us/images/uploads/HANSENMARSCHALLENGE.pdf
I have read numerous articles from either credible sources or individual that show the extra contribution of CO2 by humans just isn’t causing the warming. More likely it’s the suns radiance that fluxes with the variations of the thermal fusion engine in the suns core as reflected in sunspot magnetic anomalies.
This energy is absorbed by the land and things that inhabit it but the greatest absorber is the oceans which a researcher at NOAA showed was most likely influencing land temperatures.
You will notice that most of the melting in the polar ice occurs in the sea ice and not land bound ice. That proves to me that air is not the significant medium of warming. And the last time there was significant absence of
Arctic ice was back in the 20~30s. It seems to cycle with the PDO and ADO ocean current cycles.
So I think the worlds AGW alarmists better forget about CO2 levels and start worrying how they can keep the populous from running out of energy and freezing or starving to death. I seriously doubt that PV solar, wind grid tie-in or biofuels will be able to supply that need unless there is a significant decrease in population or more effective use can be made of the regulars of oil, coal, and nuclear. Looking at future population trends I think the world needs a massive sterilization treatment otherwise significant conflicts will ensue over water and energy. Security is also an issue.
Rite now Obama’s plan just won’t really vitalize the economy, it will just lead to either more inflation or a long term depression. Allowing companies to make effective use of of exiting reserves of coal, oil and gas will generate enormous tax revenue. I also think that energy companies are better able to develop viable energy sources without excessive subsidizations and mandates. Right now the Democratic congress and presidency will just hamper that severely by trying to regulate CO2 emissions.
Energy efficiency yes, carbon emission regulation or sequestering no. It’s a money scam to burden consumers with more taxes to fund congressional pork and socialism. Consumerism without significant manufacturing will not bail out this economy, government can’t create real jobs or productivity, but as we have been seeing for the last 100 years they can sure screw things up.