Global Warming as a Natural Response to Cloud Changes Associated with the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO)
Reposted here from weatherquestions.com
UPDATED – 10/20/08 See discussion section 4
by Roy W. Spencer
(what follows is a simplified version of a paper I am preparing to submit GRL for publication, hopefully by the end of October 2008)
A simple climate model forced by satellite-observed changes in the Earth’s radiative budget associated with the Pacific Decadal Oscillation is shown to mimic the major features of global average temperature change during the 20th Century – including two-thirds of the warming trend. A mostly-natural source of global warming is also consistent with mounting observational evidence that the climate system is much less sensitive to carbon dioxide emissions than the IPCC’s climate models simulate.
1. Introduction
For those who have followed my writings and publications in the last 18 months (e.g. Spencer et al., 2007), you know that we are finding satellite evidence that the climate system could be much less sensitive to greenhouse gas emissions than the U.N.’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC, 2007) climate models suggest.
To show that we are not the only researchers who have documented evidence contradicting the IPCC models, I made the following figure to contrast the IPCC-projected warming from a doubling of atmospheric carbon dioxide with the warming that would result if the climate sensitivity is as low as implied by various kinds of observational evidence. The dashed line represents our recent apples-to-apples comparison between satellite-based feedback estimates and IPCC model-diagnosed feedbacks, all computed from 5-year periods (Spencer and Braswell, 2008a):
Fig. 1. Projected warming (assumed here to occur by 2100) from a doubling of atmospheric CO2 from the IPCC versus from various observational indicators. (click for larger image)
The discrepancy between the models and observations seen in Fig. 1 is stark. If the sensitivity of the climate system is as low as some of these observational results suggest, then the IPCC models are grossly in error, and we have little to fear from manmade global warming.
But an insensitive climate system would ALSO mean that the warming we have seen in the last 100 years can not be explained by increasing CO2 alone. This is because the radiative forcing from the extra CO2 would simply be too weak to cause the ~0.7 deg. C warming between 1900 and 2000… there must be some natural warming process going on as well.
Here I present new evidence that most of the warming could actually be the result of a natural cycle in cloud cover forced by a well-known mode of natural climate variability: the Pacific Decadal Oscillation.
2. A Simple Model of Natural Global Warming
As Joe D’Aleo and others have pointed out for years, the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO) has experienced phase shifts that coincided with the major periods of warming and cooling in the 20th Century. As can be seen in the following figure, the pre-1940 warming coincided with the positive phase of the PDO; then, a slight cooling until the late 1970s coincided with a negative phase of the PDO; and finally, the warming since the 1970s has once again coincided with the positive phase of the PDO.
Fig. 2. Variations in (a) global-average surface temperature, and (b) the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO) index during 1900-2000. (click for larger image)
Others have noted that the warming in the 1920s and 1930s led to media reports of decreasing sea ice cover, Arctic and Greenland temperatures just as warm as today, and the opening up of the Northwest Passage in 1939 and 1940.
Since this timing between the phase of the PDO and periods of warming and associated climate change seems like more than mere coincidence, I asked the rather obvious question: What if this known mode of natural climate variability (the PDO) caused a small fluctuation in global-average cloud cover?
Such a cloud change would cause the climate system to go through natural fluctuations in average temperature for extended periods of time. The IPCC simply assumes that this kind of natural cloud variability does not exist, and that the Earth stays in a perpetual state of radiative balance that has only been recently disrupted by mankind’s greenhouse gas emissions. (This is an assumption that many of us meteorologists find simplistic and dubious, at best.)
I used a very simple energy balance climate model, previously suggested to us by Isaac Held and Piers Forster, to investigate this possibility. In this model I ran many thousands of combinations of assumed: (1) ocean depth (through which heat is mixed on multi-decadal to centennial time scales), (2) climate sensitivity, and (3) cloud cover variations directly proportional to the PDO index values.
In effect, I asked the model to show me what combinations of those model parameters yielded a temperature history approximately like that seen during 1900-2000. And here’s an average of all of the simulations that came close to the observed temperature record:
Fig. 3. A simple energy balance model driven by cloud changes associated with the PDO can explain most of the major features of global-average temperature fluctuations during the 20th Century. The best model fits had assumed ocean mixing depths around 800 meters, and feedback parameters of around 3 Watts per square meter per degree C. (click for larger image)
The “PDO-only” (dashed) curve indeed mimics the main features of the behavior of global mean temperatures during the 20th Century — including two-thirds of the warming trend. If I include transient CO2 forcing with the PDO-forced cloud changes (solid line labeled PDO+CO2), then the fit to observed temperatures is even closer.
It is important to point out that, in this exercise, the PDO itself is not an index of temperature; it is an index of radiative forcing which drives the time rate of change of temperature.
Now, the average PDO forcing that was required by the model for the two curves in Fig. 3 ranged from 1.7 to 2.0 Watts per square meter per PDO index value. In other words, for each unit of the PDO index, 1.7 to 2.0 Watts per square meter of extra heating was required during the positive phase of the PDO, that much cooling during the negative phase of the PDO.
But what evidence do we have that any such cloud-induced changes in the Earth’s radiative budget are actually associated with the PDO? I address that question in the next section.
3. Satellite Evidence for Radiative Budget Changes Forced by the Pacific Decadal Oscillation
To see whether there is any observational evidence that the PDO has associated changes in global-average cloudiness, I used NASA Terra satellite measurements of reflected solar (shortwave, SW) and emitted infrared (longwave, LW) radiative fluxes over the global oceans from the CERES instrument during 2000-2005, and compared them to recent variations in the PDO index. The results can be seen in the following figure:
Fig. 4. Three-month running averages of (a) the PDO index during 2000-2005, and (b) corresponding CERES-measured anomalies in the global ocean average radiative budget, with and without the feedback component removed (see Fig. 5). The smooth curves are 2nd order polynomial fits to the data. (click for larger image)
But before a comparison to the PDO can be made, one must recognize that the total radiative flux measured by CERES is a combination of forcing AND feedback (e.g. Gregory et al., 2002; Forster and Gregory, 2006). So, we first must estimate and remove the feedback component to extract any potential radiative forcing associated with the PDO.
As Spencer and Braswell (2008b) have shown with a simple model, the radiative feedback signature in globally-averaged radiative flux versus temperature data is always highly correlated, while the time-varying radiative forcing signature of internal climate fluctuations is uncorrelated because the forcing and temperature response are always 90 degrees out of phase.
The following figure shows the “feedback stripes” associated with intraseasonal fluctuations in the climate system, and the corresponding feedback estimate (8.3 Watts per square meter per degree C) that I removed from the data to get the “forcing-only” curve in Fig. 4b. 
Fig. 5. Three-month running averages of global oceanic radiative flux changes versus tropospheric temperature changes (from AMSU channel 5, see Christy et al., 2003), used to estimate the feedback component of the radiative fluxes so it could be removed to get the forcing (see Fig. 4b). (click for larger image)
(Note that this feedback estimate is not claimed to represent long-term climate sensitivity; it is instead the feedback occurring on intraseasonal and interannual time scales which is mixed in with an unknown amount of internally-generated radiative forcing, probably due to clouds.)
When the feedback is removed, we see a good match in Fig. 4 between the low-frequency behavior of the PDO and the radiative forcing (which is presumably due to clouds). Second-order polynomials were fit to the time series in Fig. 4 and compared to each other to arrive at the PDO-scaling factor of 1.9 Watts per square meter per PDO index value.
It is significant that the observed scale factor (1.9) that converts the PDO index into units of heating or cooling is just what the model required (1.7 to 2.0) to best explain the temperature behavior during the 20th Century. Thus, these recent satellite measurements – even though they span less than 6 years — support the Pacific Decadal Oscillation as a potential major player in global warming and climate change.
4. Discussion
The evidence continues to mount that the IPCC models are too sensitive, and therefore produce too much global warming. If climate sensitivity is indeed considerably less than the IPCC claims it to be, then increasing CO2 alone can not explain recent global warming. The evidence presented here suggests that most of that warming might well have been caused by cloud changes associated with a natural mode of climate variability: the Pacific Decadal Oscillation.
The IPCC has simply assumed that mechanisms of climate change like that addressed here do not exist. But that assumption is quite arbitrary and, as shown here, very likely wrong. My use of only PDO-forced variations in the Earth’s radiative energy budget to explain two-thirds of the global warming trend is no less biased than the IPCC’s use of carbon dioxide to explain global warming without accounting for natural climate variability. If any IPCC scientists would like to dispute that claim, please e-mail me at roy.spencer (at) nsstc.uah.edu.
If the PDO has recently entered into a new, negative phase, then we can expect that global average temperatures, which haven’t risen for at least seven years now, could actually start to fall in the coming years. The recovery of Arctic sea ice now underway might be an early sign that this is indeed happening.
I am posting this information in advance of publication because of its potential importance to pending EPA regulations or congressional legislation which assume that carbon dioxide is a major driver of climate change. Since the mainstream news media now refuse to report on peer-reviewed scientific articles which contradict the views of the IPCC, Al Gore, and James Hansen, I am forced to bypass them entirely.
We need to consider the very real possibility that carbon dioxide – which is necessary for life on Earth and of which there is precious little in the atmosphere – might well be like the innocent bystander who has been unjustly accused of a crime based upon little more than circumstantial evidence.
REFERENCES
Christy, J. R., R. W. Spencer, W. B. Norris, W. D. Braswell, and D. E. Parker (2003),
Error estimates of version 5.0 of MSU/AMSU bulk atmospheric temperatures, J.
Atmos. Oceanic Technol., 20, 613- 629.
Douglass, D.H., and R. S. Knox, 2005. Climate forcing by volcanic eruption of Mount
Pinatubo. Geophys. Res. Lett., 32, doi:10.1029/2004GL022119.
Forster, P. M., and J. M. Gregory (2006), The climate sensitivity and its components
diagnosed from Earth Radiation Budget data, J. Climate, 19, 39-52.
Gregory, J.M., R.J. Stouffer, S.C.B. Raper, P.A. Stott, and N.A. Rayner (2002), An
observationally based estimate of the climate sensitivity, J. Climate, 15, 3117-3121.
Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (2007), Climate Change 2007: The Physical
Science Basis, report, 996 pp., Cambridge University Press, New York City.
Schwartz, S. E. (2007), Heat capacity, time constant, and sensitivity of the Earth’s
climate system. J. Geophys. Res., 112, doi:10.1029/2007JD008746.
Spencer, R.W., W. D. Braswell, J. R. Christy, and J. Hnilo (2007), Cloud and radiation
budget changes associated with tropical intraseasonal oscillations, Geophys. Res.
Lett., 34, L15707, doi:10.1029/2007GL029698.
Spencer, R.W., and W.D. Braswell (2008a), Satellite measurements reveal a climate
system less sensitive than in models, Geophys. Res. Lett., submitted.
Spencer, R.W., and W.D. Braswell (2008b), Potential biases in cloud feedback diagnosis:
A simple model demonstration, J. Climate, November 1.




Just a note about the paper referenced above, rspa20071880.pdf, that says there is no correlation between recent solar activity and temperature. The paper looks at the correlation between solar activity and James Hansen’s surface temperatures. There has certainly been enough work at this site to cast doubt any such correlation. It would be much more convincing if it was based on satellite data. The only reason for Hansen’s work is that it extends over a longer time period than the satellite data. But the paper only does a correlation over a time period for which satellite data is available.
If Leif goes along with variation in solar activity (measured by which parameter ?) HAVING CONTRIBUTED AS MUCH AS 10 % OF OBSERVED WARMING OVER THE PAST 100 YEARS then I have no problem going with an oceanic enhancement or suppression of that solar component on a 10 to 1 basis over 100 years.
However I don’t see why the solar contribution would have been any less over the pasr 25 years as against the past 100 years. It is accepted that solar activity however measured was historically high over the cycles 19 to 23 with a bit of a pause in cycle 20 so I would have thought any solar contribution to be higher during such a period not lower.
The oceans certainly set a base level of temperature variability through their oscillations and a solar contribution of only 10% over several centuries would be significant and noticeable on a cumulative basis perhaps equivalent to the slow background rise since LIA.
I have given though to whether one needs a solar contribution at all in view of what Leif says since oceanic changes alone could explain ALL observed temperature changes in trend. On balance I think one does in order to explain the said small and slow background warming at a rate even as low as 10% or less.
Also as a matter of real world observations any global temperature changes either up or down do seem to be faster when solar and oceanic cycles are in phase as they were (positive) from 1975 to about 2000 and (negative) from 2006 or thereabouts to date and continuing.
My ideas are not dependent on any particular amount of solar variability. Much more important is the level of climate sensitivity to those changes after stripping out any oceanic component.
I have no problem accepting a very high level of sensitivity to small solar changes which accumulate over time enhanced or suppressed by a multiple of 10 times from oceanic variability. In fact a multiple of 5 times would be sufficient because oceans work to both suppress and enhance temperature variations from other causes and it is the difference between peaks and troughs of oceanic effects that counts thus one could get a multiple of 10 times from a variation of 5 times up plus 5 times down.
All in all the idea of a combined solar/oceanic primary driver swamping all other factors over enough time still seems highly likely to me.
A small slice could be given to CO2-forced warming too – something I myself have never doubted, but like Dr. Spencer I don’t think it is anywhere near as potent as the IPCC makes it in their models.
That’s my impression.
Does HadCRUT use the same ground stations that GISS does?
If I’m not mistaken, both use NOAA GHCN data as a base.
I have been convinced that the PDO and AMO are prime drivers of the climate, but going back one step —
Who created God? ( Oops! wrong site)
What drives the PDO & AMO?
The only acceptable explanation of the Earth’s climate variation since 1900, when the climate was ideal, is the anthropogenic CO2 contribution to the atmospheric concentration of CO2 since that time, because all other factors have remained constant.
I do not concede that the temperature is ideal. At present there are many times more more cold-related deaths than heat-related. II think an average global temperature increase of 2 degrees C would be quite beneficial.
Furthermore, how would one explain the sharp increase in temperatures from 1900 to 1940, especially during the Great Depression, when a third to half of heavy industry was shut down?
And what about the slight drop over the last ten (or seven, if you prefer) years despite a very large increase in CO2 emissions?
Not to mention the MWP, which seems to have been considerably warmer than today–and the Roman WP, which was warmer still.
Besides, the AquaSat data seems to shoot CO2 positive feedback theory all to hell.
What drives the PDO & AMO?
Earth’s rotation and the shape of the oceans would be my guess. The sun obviously has some impact, but it is still hard to estimate how much.
evan jones,
Oort (1010-1050)
Wolf (1280-1340) (230)
Spörer (1415-1534) (75)
Maunder (1645-1715) (111)
Dalton (1790-1840) (75)
Modern (2007 – ) (167)
The number in brackets is the time between the end of the previous and the start of the actual. I don’t really see a cyclic trend here. Perhaps more data points going back through the Holocene could reveal something.
The ocean oscillations are solar driven one way or another and there are plenty of possible contributing factors including the cloudiness/albedo changes suggested by Roy Spencer and others.
The must also be a reaction to solar changes however small but time lags and multiple overlaps do complicate the diagnostics so I understand Leifs reluctance to go down that route without more firm indicators of cause and effect. However it is possible to be over cautious in scientific matters so as to discount the obvious.
Leif (15:52:22 20-10-2008) on Solar cycles & climate:
The point is that no such correlation is apparent. The mantra of correlation is being chanted over and over again, in spite of the correlation simply not being there. A statistical overkill [because it is plain to the eye] showing no correlation is the [in some quarters, infamous] paper by Lockwood and Froehlich
I looked at this paper and was surprised to learn they do seem quite willing to accept that there is a historical long time-scale relationship:
“these studies are strong indicators of an influence of solar variability on pre-industrial climate”. (They list a few possible solar magnetic field related mechanisms). But the aim of their paper is to study the last 40 years, and they do not find the relationship there.
However, Svensmark and Friis-Christensen replied and showed that the relationship is there, using different data sets.
http://www.friendsofscience.org/assets/files/documents/Svensmark_FriisChtr-Reply%20to%20Lockwood.pdf
The IPCC projected warming v. time graph in Fig. 1 appears to me to actually be tracking disgust with and mistrust of Al Gore v. time.
Correct me if I’m wrong but a slight wobble in the earths spin and proximity to the sun due to a elliptical orbit can effect temperatures. Its that whole winter/summer thing.. But the sun has little influence? And what about the solar winds, CME’s, dimming, gamma, xray..ect .. the sun has more tricks than spots you know. To ignore that the other planets in our system also experienced warming and cooling trends despite their varied atmospheres and lack of SUVs is shortsighted. The concept of an absolute constant is not a good idea. I think the problem with most theorys of climate science is that the people with the theory get tunnel vision. The system is so complex that no one has found all the variables and we are so desperate for the answers, we forget to ask all of the questions.
Personally I don’t believe in singular theorys and trends can be tinkered with to say anything you please. If in fact we have been in a warming trend since the last ice age, perhaps the current cooling is just weather. (devils advocate.. dont eat me) Do I think Ice will forever disappear from the planet, or that we will reach some magical tipping point of no return? Nope.. climate wise the Earth has been there, done that and gotten the t-shirt.. yet its still here.
In reality I think that we will find a combination of events cause climate .. Its the big cosmos one arm bandit… whats the pull this year? Active Volcanic erruptions + low solar influence (magnetic) + negative ocean currents and a change of wind patterns = Cooler.. (very simplified, for all we know one or more could be the causes of the others)
Heres the deal though. Mankind in its infinite wisdom has yet to build a successful biosphere, yet we are going to fix our world. Man will be the cause of the extinction of man long before the next asteroid, super volcano, CME, or CO2 takes us out because as our own worst enemy we will do something stupid to counter a nonexistant problem rather than collaborate and piece the puzzle together. Those who cannot learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. For me.. Im seriously tired of the goldie locks syndrom.. this climates tooo hot.. this climates toooo cold.. When do we get to the part where its Just right??
Stephen Wilde (21:39:58) :
However I don’t see why the solar contribution would have been any less over the pasr 25 years as against the past 100 years.
The multivariate analysis examined the correlation. And as it typical for correlations when there are no causation, the correlation often changes with time, so no surprise here.
It is accepted that solar activity however measured was historically high over the cycles 19 to 23 with a bit of a pause in cycle 20
No that is not accepted. In http://www.leif.org/research/AGU%20Spring%202008%20SP23A-07.pdf I argue otherwise and conclude: “With this new perspective, we conclude that the Sun in the 20th and 21st centuries has not been particularly more active compared to activity in the 19th century”.
@ur momisugly Roy Spencer (11:26:44) who said “Look at Fig. 3 in my paper…to the extent that the model temperature matches the observed temperature, exactly what I have said is happening in the model”
I appreciate that your model closely matches the actual temperature variations of the last 100 years, but as we all know, models can be made to do anything (including have unbelievably large positive feedback to small changes in CO2…).
What I am trying to do is understand the basic principles behind your model, to see whether it is doing physically sensible things or not. It is a pity that you could not answer either of my points about the mechanisms responsible for your model’s behaviour, but instead seem to treat my points as attacks on your models accuracy (which was certainly not intended). 🙁
Pet Rock (01:37:19) :
However, Svensmark and Friis-Christensen replied and showed that the relationship is there, using different data sets.
I usually do not attach much significance to Tamino’s rantings [because of his fanatical AGW bent; I’m banned from his site], but now and then he does come up with something of value. Here is his rebuttal of the rebuttal: http://tamino.wordpress.com/2007/10/21/how-to-fool-yourself/
Bob Tisdale
I was very much aware aware that the NASA article was about el niños affecting the rotation of the earth. In fact that is exactly the point I was making – that an AGW’ers can make a pretty good link between warming and pdo via enso if he chooses to do so. Hence Dr Spencer’s argument, while very interesting, resolves nothing. I merely added that if you can find an external source for this change of rotation then you can argue that it causes enso rather than being an effect of it. In any event the correlation seems certain and the conservation of momentum effect works in reverse too. Moreover you will find at least one Russian scientist and one Antipodean scientist who will argue for an external mechanism. As they aren’t peer-reviewed I didn’t mention it. But it fascinates me all the same.
Leif
The “it’s obvious” part was a copy of Josh Willis (of ocean temperature measurements fame) who had used exactly the same argument on Andy Revkin’s blog to prove the CO2 link for the entire 20th century. I then pointed out that the IPCC mentions only a possible link from 1950. Now though (perhaps due to me) he’s changed his tune a bit to reflect the consensus position. Also I fully appreciate that you know more about tsi than anyone else but I’d merely make two points in my relative ignorance:
1. Isn’t it all a question of scaling, ie how much effect you attribute to even a small change? One can certainly argue that the absolute change of CO2 in the atmosphere is miniscule too. When you do argue such a thing then you always get some fool who tells you something like “a virus is a small change too but it can kill you”. Again it’s merely the inconsistency between arguments that I am bringing up.
2. Since sunspots historically show very good correlation with temperature and these are magnetic signatures isn’t tsi a red herring in the first place? Shouldn’t we look for a magnetic mechanism? I note in passing that apparently our own magnetosphere has reduced in strength by a good deal and that in turn should lessen our protection from the solar wind. I wouldn’t draw any conclusions as I am unqualified to do so but maybe something like that affects us, no?
“If you want to accuse your host of being a weasel”
Sorry, this joke demanded more context. It was not directed at you, Anthony.
I’ll try to remember the /sarc tags, but the memory is not altogether reliable.
Leif
I made some uncontested comments on that Tamino “rebuttal” of Svensmark too. Specifically, regardless of how good or not the correlation is, it is still a lot better than the correlation for CO2. His reply was typical, that aerosols make up the difference. ie an unproven hand-wave presented as if it were fact. I keep asking warmers why does any solar correlation have to pass tests that the bare CO2 correlation is apparently exempt from and why can we not use similarly opportunistic hand-waves (as I demonstrated above) to cover any lack of correlation with the solar trend. Nobody can answer that because in the effort to see someone else’s point of view they might realize that their entire argument consists of faith-based guesswork. That would never do.
I know that this is off-topic, but the ASMU-A Daily Temperature From Space page provided by Dr Roy Spencer http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/ is a very interesting resource for those who follow the climate debate.
I have not seen anyone point out that from the data provided on that page we have at present record low temperatures (since 1998) in the upper troposphere at both the 250mb and 400mb bands. For just about the whole of this year the area between 7.5km and 11km above the surface has been at its coldest since 1998.
The data for the lower troposphere at 600mb and 900mb show temperatures below those last year, but not exceptionally so. Is there an explanation of why the temperatures in the upper troposphere are so very low this year?
JamesG (07:05:07) :
the same argument on Andy Revkin’s blog to prove the CO2 link for the entire 20th century.
What has the Sun to do with CO2?
1. Isn’t it all a question of scaling, ie how much effect you attribute to even a small change?
One should not a priori attribute something to something [although it seems that people do that all the time]. The issue is if one can demonstrate that a small change has a large effect. It is almost like homeopathy where it is claimed that the smaller the concentration of the causative agent, the greater the curative effect 🙂
2. Since sunspots historically show very good correlation with temperature and these are magnetic signatures isn’t TSI a red herring in the first place? Shouldn’t we look for a magnetic mechanism?
There is no such good correlation. For example, solar activity in the 20th century was not markedly different from that in the 19th, while temperatures seem to have been. Central to the truth of that statement is the realization that the sunspot number record does not have constant [or correct] calibration over time. We have had lots of discussion on this blog of the ‘tiny Tims’, so I’ll not elaborate further now.
Sunspots are magnetic, but for every magnetic north pole there is a corresponding magnetic south pole so overall there is no magnetic effect. And the variation of TSI is purely of magnetic origin [and tracks sunspots very well], so TSI is a good proxy for solar magnetism. There was also the notion that since TSI is a measure of the light and heat that we get from the Sun, that that in itself was important. If TSI increases 4%, the temperature increase from that alone would be 1% or 3 degrees.
our own magnetosphere has reduced in strength by a good deal and that in turn should lessen our protection from the solar wind.
The Earth’s magnetic field has indeed decreased 10% over the last 150 years and that has increased magnetic activity by a small amount [on the border of being measurable]. It is, however, an issue under debate. There is a school of thought [which I do not subscribe to] that a smaller magnetosphere would mean smaller geomagnetic effects, because the so-called reconnection line would be shorter. The argument for this goes like this: geomagnetic activity is due to reconnection between the Sun’s and the Earth’s fields. Reconnection creates an electric field and the total potential drop is that electric field times the length of the reconnection line. I’m not sure that it is that simple.
Looks like a rough 200-250 year cycle to me.
Jeff Alberts (09:06:35) :
Looks like a rough 200-250 year cycle to me.
There is, very likely, such a cycle. Its period is quoted somewhere between 200 and 210 years. It is known variously as the deVries cycle or the Suess cycle.
Leif, thanks for the pointer to Tamino’s response (… I think … — I prefer science like a good chess game, not like a gang fight). So instead of dwelling on the he said she said in these papers, I’ll just ask you (and I’m sure others are dying to know):
Do you agree that there is/was some/any historical significant correlation of sun (not TSI) with climate?
I know from your cloud-cover and albedo plots that you don’t believe there is any 11 year cycle in those. But I’m not convinced that the influence has to be that direct. As one small factor among many, in a complex system with many positive and negative feedbacks, I’m not sure that the lack of a ‘smoking gun’ proves that there was no crime. I like Barry Saltzman’s wording in “Dynamical Paleoclimatology”, “The record of temperature and ice change […] may indeed be viewed as a response to the external forcing of the system, but it may bear little similarity in phase, frequency, or amplitude of this forcing. It should be clear, considering all of the factors involved, that the task of accounting for and predicting the climate is bound to be very difficult.” That the sun could change the clouds a bit would be far easier to show than that the sun could change the climate.
To me, the fun is in finding out how it really works. I’m not here to save the world.
Pet Rock (11:30:42) :
Do you agree that there is/was some/any historical significant correlation of sun (not TSI) with climate?
My stance is that no such correlation at a level that makes it player has been demonstrated to my satisfaction. It is likely that one day we’ll dig a valid correlation [one that has a causative agent] out of the noise, but it ain’t here yet. I’ll make an analogy to geomagnetic variations. There is an influence of the Moon on those variations. Only visible when you massage lots of high-quality data. But the effect is usually ignored because it is so small.
Quote “If you want to do something useful, stop hiding behind web identities. Write a letter to the editor, write your elected representatives, but don’t post anonymous calls to action. Otherwise your voice is useless. – Anthony Watts”
You are quite right and normally I would. I’ve gotten close to a political leader in the last 2 years and because of this I must hide my ID for the time being ( for respect of those whom I associate with), I am actively fighting the AGW left from the inside.
I do read your blog on a daily bases and I’m a firm believer of Cosmoclimatology and hopefully more public funding will go in that direction.
I see a time line of two to five years before before the tide of public opinion can turn the media in its output. It is my firm belief that global poverty is the real issue of the 21st century.
Therefore I apologize for my use of my internet game name on this forum and I will not post again till my position in the political sphere is more secure.
Gor.
Patrick:
Don’t trust the NOAA-15 AMSU data for channel 6 or “LT”…channel 6 has a calibration drift, and LT is also affected by that.
At some point I would like to replace the NOAA-15 data on that web page with AMSU data from NASAs Aqua satellite. The biggest problem with these sensors is that the calibration changes slightly with instrument temperature, and the NOAA polar-orbiters are not maintained in a sun-synchronous orbit.
The Aqua satellite has fuel that is used to maintain it in a constant orbit, so there are no year-to-year changes in instrument temperature, and we believe it’s calibration stability to be the best of any MSU/AMSU instrument yet.