Obama to Declare Carbon Dioxide Dangerous Pollutant

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In my opinion, this is lunacy – Obama’s thinking is completely off the rails now. He cites a new energy plan in August, then cripples it from the start with this sort of thinking. – Anthony


From Bloomberg News: Obama to Declare Carbon Dioxide Dangerous Pollutant

Obama to Declare Carbon Dioxide Dangerous Pollutant (Update1)

By Jim Efstathiou Jr.  Last Updated: October 16, 2008 09:50 EDT

Oct. 16 (Bloomberg) — Barack Obama will classify carbon dioxide as a dangerous pollutant that can be regulated should he win the presidential election on Nov. 4, opening the way for new rules on greenhouse gas emissions.

The Democratic senator from Illinois will tell the Environmental Protection Agency that it may use the 1990 Clean Air Act to set emissions limits on power plants and manufacturers, his energy adviser, Jason Grumet, said in an interview. President George W. Bush declined to curb CO2 emissions under the law even after the Supreme Court ruled in 2007 that the government may do so.

If elected, Obama would be the first president to group emissions blamed for global warming into a category of pollutants that includes lead and carbon monoxide. Obama’s rival in the presidential race, Republican Senator John McCain of Arizona, has not said how he would treat CO2 under the act.

Obama “would initiate those rulemakings,” Grumet said in an Oct. 6 interview in Boston. “He’s not going to insert political judgments to interrupt the recommendations of the scientific efforts.”

Placing heat-trapping pollutants in the same category as ozone may lead to caps on power-plant emissions and force utilities to use the most expensive systems to curb pollution. The move may halt construction plans on as many as half of the 130 proposed new U.S. coal plants.

The president may take action on new rules immediately upon taking office, said David Bookbinder, chief climate counsel for the Sierra Club. Environment groups including the Sierra Club and Natural Resources Defense Council will issue a regulatory agenda for the next president that calls for limits on CO2 from industry.

`Hit Ground Running’

“This is what they should do to hit the ground running,” Bookbinder said in an Oct. 10 telephone interview.

Separately, Congress is debating legislation to create an emissions market to address global warming, a solution endorsed by both candidates and utilities such as American Electric Power Co., the biggest U.S. producer of electricity from coal. Congress failed to pass a global-warming bill in June and how long it may take lawmakers to agree on a plan isn’t known.

“We need federal legislation to deal with greenhouse-gas emissions,” said Vicki Arroyo, general counsel for the Pew Center on Global Climate Change in Arlington, Virginia. “In the meantime, there is this vacuum. People are eager to get started on this.”

An Obama victory would help clear the deadlock in talks on an international agreement to slow global warming, Rajendra Pachauri, head of a United Nation panel of climate-change scientists, said today in Berlin. Negotiators from almost 200 countries will meet in December in Poznan, Poland, to discuss ways to limit CO2.

`Back in the Game’

“The U.S. has to move quickly domestically so we can get back in the game internationally,” Grumet said. “We cannot have a meaningful impact in the international discussion until we develop a meaningful domestic consensus. So he’ll move quickly.”

Burning coal to generate electricity produces more than a third of energy-related carbon dioxide emissions and half the U.S. power supply, according to the Energy Department. Every hour, fossil-fuel combustion generates 3.5 million tons of emissions worldwide, helping create a warming effect that “already threatens our climate,” the Paris-based International Energy Agency said.

The EPA under Bush fought the notion that the Clean Air Act applies to CO2 all the way to the Supreme Court. The law has been used successfully to regulate six pollutants, including sulfur dioxide and ozone. Regulation under the act “could result in an unprecedented expansion of EPA authority,” EPA Administrator Stephen Johnson said in July. The law “is the wrong tool for the job.”

Proponents of regulation are hoping for better results under a new president. Obama adviser Grumet, executive director of the National Commission on Energy Policy, said if Congress hasn’t acted in 18 months, about the time it would take to draft rules, the president should.

EPA Authority

“The EPA is obligated to move forward in the absence of Congressional action,” Grumet said. “If there’s no action by Congress in those 18 months, I think any responsible president would want to have the regulatory approach.”

States where coal-fired plants may be affected include Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, Texas, Montana, Minnesota, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Georgia and Florida.

The alternative, a national cap-and-trade program created by Congress, offers industry more options, said Bruce Braine, a vice president at Columbus, Ohio-based American Electric. The world’s largest cap-and-trade plan for greenhouse gases opened in Europe in 2005.

Under a cap-and-trade program, polluters may keep less- efficient plants running if they offset those emissions with investments in projects that lower pollution, such as wind-energy turbines or systems that destroy methane gas from landfills.

McCain `Not a Fan’

“Those options may still allow me to build new efficient power plants that might not meet a higher standard,” Braine said in an Oct. 9 interview. “That might be a more cost-effective way to approach it.”

McCain hasn’t said how he would approach CO2 regulation under the Clean Air Act. McCain adviser and former Central Intelligence Agency director James Woolsey said Oct. 6 that new rules may conflict with Congressional efforts. Policy adviser Rebecca Jensen Tallent said in August that McCain prefers a bill debated by Congress rather than regulations “established through one agency where one secretary is getting to make a lot of decisions.”

“He is not as big of a fan of standards-based approaches,” Arroyo said. “The Supreme Court thinks it’s clear that there is greenhouse-gas authority under the Clean Air Act. To take that off the table probably wouldn’t be very wise.”

More Efficient Technologies

How new regulations would affect the proposed U.S. coal plants depends on how they are written, said Bill Fang, climate issue director for the Edison Electric Institute, a Washington-based lobbying group for utilities. About half of the proposed plants plan to use technologies that are 20 percent more efficient than conventional coal burners.

“Several states have denied the applicability of the Clean Air Act to coal permits,” Fang said in an Oct. 10 interview.

In June, a court in Georgia stopped construction of the 1,200- megawatt Longleaf power plant, a $2 billion project, because developer Dynegy Inc. failed to consider cleaner technology.

An appeals board within the EPA is considering a challenge from the Sierra Club to Deseret Power Electric Cooperative‘s air permit for its 110-megawatt Bonanza coal plant in Utah on grounds that it failed to require controls on CO2. One megawatt is enough to power about 800 typical U.S. homes.

“Industry has woken up to the fact that a new progressive administration could move quickly to make the United States a leader rather than a laggard,” said Bruce Nilles, director of the group’s national coal campaign.

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Aussie John
October 16, 2008 4:44 pm

Al Qaeda members should be dancing in their caves about the capitalist meltdown and the plans that our esteemed leaders have for carbon capture/tax/reduction/etc.
Terrorists could not have planned a better way to hit at First World economies and take us back to the (literal) Dark Ages.
Perhaps they were the originators of AGW – can someone check Al’s funding sources?

Katlab
October 16, 2008 4:48 pm

Must stop breathing now. Does bad breath have a higher level of CO2 emissions? If so will people with poor oral hygiene be targeted?

rigel
October 16, 2008 4:48 pm

Well, if CO2 is a dangerous pollutant, then each of us must have our breathing regulated, afterall, we all emit CO2?
Any guess on which states and groups of people would be denied permits?
I expect the good people in Texas will know how to react if the Obamanation thugs come here to enforce their permits- same story as always. Liberty or death.

Robert Wood
October 16, 2008 4:49 pm

I notice on the dias the slogan : “New Energy For America”
Well, he wants to stop oil and coal use and production; I’m sure he isn’t advocating nucelar energy. So what is this “new energy”? Pixie-dust?

Robert Wood
October 16, 2008 4:50 pm

Or are they going to burn all those carbon credits?

Robert Wood
October 16, 2008 4:51 pm

davidgmills.
Science has become politicised because it is funded by governments. Scientific research has now become a bureaucratic enterprise.
Does that explain it all?

Neil Crafter
October 16, 2008 5:10 pm

Novoburgo “The human exhalation problem will be mitigated by requiring each citizen to carry with them a shrub/bush/tree, to help absorb pollutants generated by their life support systems. Parents would be responsible for dependents and the state would have to provide for the incarcerated, the indigent, and those people living in flora deprived environments.”
Under the Obama regime, you won’t be able to call it a bush.

October 16, 2008 5:18 pm

I placed a post on unthreaded on the bulletin board at climate audit concerning the economics of AGW. In it I asked some thoughtful questions and would apprciate any responses if anyone feels inclined. Thanks in advance.
Anthony, I think this would be a good subject for a thread and I have not seen my questioned answered. Please consider.

October 16, 2008 5:21 pm

[…] information on Watts Up With That? including this comment from Daniel: The only surprise here is that Obama’s advisers announced […]

October 16, 2008 5:23 pm

If elected Obama will create many inefficient jobs in energy, in peace corps, in “a national security force as large and well funded as the US military ” We will become a poorer, far more socialist country.

deadwood
October 16, 2008 5:31 pm

Obama does not appear to stupid, so there must be something more to this announcement.
The polls are tightening and he is making sure the greens vote for him rather than McKinney or Nader. Perhaps he doesn’t want to suffer the same fate as Gore.

October 16, 2008 5:31 pm

He will use the finacial crisis and rescue plan, plus the goverment loans to financial institutions and the new energy policy to control those companies and the flow of money. Acorn, the peace corps, the enlarged national security force, the energy policy and taxes will all take a heavy toll. Business investment will drop, productivity will drop, and unemployed millions will to tun to the goverment for those jobs listed above. Don’t say I did not tell you : )

John-X
October 16, 2008 5:32 pm

Katlab (16:48:11) :
” Must stop breathing now. Does bad breath have a higher level of CO2 emissions?”
Don’t even go there! It’s worse than that.
Those microbes in your mouth are producing sulfurous compounds. Your stinky breath is probably creating acid rain!
Forget to brush this morning? I’ll sell you my sulfur credits!

Mark Smith
October 16, 2008 5:38 pm

Well, it won’t influence Obama, and it probably won’t influence Gordon Brown much either, but I’ve managed to create a petition on the Number 10 site:
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Require
government funded research into climate change to meet minimum
standards of honesty.
In order to ensure that public policy is guided by the best
possible scientific knowledge, it should be required of
research bodies such as the Hadley Centre that their published
research meet at least the same standards of disclosure and
transparency as financial and mining prospectuses, such that
failure to meet such standards should disqualify research from
consideration in setting public policy.
I think it’s only open to Brits, but the URL is:

Pete
October 16, 2008 5:41 pm

davidgmills (15:27:04) :
I tend to agree that scientists are “even more gutless”, but as a partial defense, many are just out of their element in making public statements. Also, their “peers”, journal editors and the funding sources seem to have put up some pretty significant roadblocks. However, perhaps we could see a quantum leap occur (with little notice) where a bunch of real climate scientists spill the beans. I suppose it would really be a headline grabber if some even brought out hard evidence of scientific fraud.
I have to admit this “CO2 is evil” fraud is ripping apart my faith in the goodness of and reasoning ability of our species. Not to mention that the science and environmentalism I grew up with and love/d is being hijacked.
Something good will happen, but I wish we didn’t have to go down such a tortuous path to get there. …

John-X
October 16, 2008 5:58 pm

Pamela Gray (16:40:11) :
“Goodness… The sky will not fall on your head if Obama becomes the president…”
Like I said before, go up to Seattle, have yourself a nice half-decaf skim soymilk light-foam Grande latte’ – I’d suggest somewhere in the “U District” – take your time, really soak up the kultur.
Ask someone, anyone, WHY the junior senator from Illinois MUST be elected.
Ask someone, anyone, why the sky WILL fall if the junior senator from Illinois in NOT elected.
Make sure you gather enough information to be able to explain it all to the folks back in Enterprise.
” Maybe if we looked at these candidates with the same serious, scrutiny and search for accurate information and data instead of AGW-style spin, the discussion could rise to that of our discussion and debate on natural variability. One can only hope.”
Be sure and tell them that in the Seattle Starbucks.
Mention “serious scrutiny” of the junior senator from Illinois. If you’re within the jurisdiction of the campus police, you’re likely to be arrested for a Hate Crime. Come to think of it, if you’re within the jurisdiction of King County…

Robert Wood
October 16, 2008 5:58 pm

deadwood,
Having just come through an election “up North”, the “greens” are fickle. They will not go for the Ubermessiah because of his “green policy”.
They will vote with their checkbook; that kind of green overrides the other kind of green. It happened up here in Canada. It is happening now in Europe. Just get the news facts out.
Carbon Tax and AGW policies are electoral death. The populace is not that stupid. Let’s hope for big snowfalls before November 4th.

Hugh
October 16, 2008 6:07 pm

Okay, I think I am going to use my good credit rating to by a house with a big lawn and start planting potatoes, veggies, and start raising chickens so that I will have something to eat when our world-wide economy comes crashing down.

Pamela Gray
October 16, 2008 6:18 pm

Still hoping.

deadwood
October 16, 2008 6:20 pm

Robert:
Having been born there and also living many years in the GWN, I know Canadian politics quite well. What I saw there was Harper NOT winning, but really LOSING either. Something the Conservative Party has done quite well throughout Canadian history.
What I was saying above doesn’t imply approval, or even suggest that what Obama is doing will succeed. I was looking for a motive for why he make such a stupid move.
By the way. I once met a fellow named Robert Wood when I lived in Western Canada. He was from Winnipeg and would be in his late 50’s about now.

deadwood
October 16, 2008 6:21 pm

That should be “but not really LOSING either” above.

John-X
October 16, 2008 6:22 pm

Hugh (18:07:50) :
” Okay, I think I am going to use my good credit rating to by a house with a big lawn and start planting potatoes, veggies, and start raising chickens so that I will have something to eat when our world-wide economy comes crashing down.”
Yeah…
seriously though, I don’t think that’s gonna work.
Our world-wide economy has become something like the airplane that can never land. Either it flies or… we go down with it.
Unless ALL your neighbors go 19th century with you, then your veggies and chickens are just gonna get eaten – you gotta hide ’em or protect ’em somehow. You can see how it becomes impractical very quickly when HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of people are deprived.

H.R.
October 16, 2008 6:46 pm

(12:32:19)
You wrote
“Bye Bye USA. …
… I wonder what it will be like to have a 3rd world country as a neighbour?”
I just wonder how long it will take us’ns down here to reach that status. As they say, no country has ever taxed its way to prosperity – quite the reverse.
P.S.
Leave the light on, will ya? You’ll be getting a lot of visitors from south of the border who conveniently will forget to go back home. I plan on retiring where the fishing is great so it might as well be somewhere that has heated homes, lights, and enough energy to maintain a functioning internet.

Imman
October 16, 2008 6:53 pm

John-X,
“The End of the World did already happen. It was in the 1970s. I was there, I remember it.”
Reply: Your ‘end of the world’ was most likely hallucinations caused from a bad trip.
“Fragile world economies dependent on Arab oil…yup”
Reply: Wouldn’t you agree that economies are even MORE fragile these days?
“War in the Mideast… yup, been there, did that”
Reply: What makes you think that turmoil in the middle east is over?
“Russian” retaliation (actually it was “Soviet” retaliation – they were actually bigger and badder than 21st Century Russia) – check.”
Reply: Yes, thanks to 20th century Soviet Union, Russia now possesses the largest stockpile of weapons of mass destruction in the world. Also, according to a Russian military doctrine stated in 2003, tactical nuclear weapons of the Strategic Deterrence Forces could be used to “prevent political pressure against Russia and her allies (Armenia, Belarus, Serbia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, and Tajikistan).” Thus, the Russian leadership “is officially contemplating a limited nuclear war”. Let there be no question, Russia will support Iran as well. Israel will be attacked, sooner rather than later.

Pamela Gray
October 16, 2008 7:09 pm

I drink my coffee black and very early in the morning. What the hell is soy milk? I’ve milked cows, but how do you milk a soy? Seattle is as disconnected to eastern Washington as Portland is disconnected to eastern Oregon. I am still waiting for a serious investigation of Obama’s CO2 policies (NOT spin please) and whether or not, and this is key, he would be willing to change some of his positions should information on climate change point to variability that is not connected to CO2. I think that McCain will be as stubborn as Bush and will not be open to changing any of his positions, even in the face of contrary data. I will not be basing my vote on CO2. Just like I would not base my vote on abortion issues. I have no such strict litmus test. However, I do believe in data-driven decision making. Which candidate is more likely to lean that way? Which candidate is willing to listen to opposing views? Which candidate is willing to take the time to read up on the subject at hand? Which candidate is willing to find common ground instead of divisive positions? I actually feel that Obama is more approachable when there is a difference of opinion than McCain is. At least that is what I am seeing based on the campaigns of both candidates.

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