Obama to Declare Carbon Dioxide Dangerous Pollutant

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In my opinion, this is lunacy – Obama’s thinking is completely off the rails now. He cites a new energy plan in August, then cripples it from the start with this sort of thinking. – Anthony


From Bloomberg News: Obama to Declare Carbon Dioxide Dangerous Pollutant

Obama to Declare Carbon Dioxide Dangerous Pollutant (Update1)

By Jim Efstathiou Jr.  Last Updated: October 16, 2008 09:50 EDT

Oct. 16 (Bloomberg) — Barack Obama will classify carbon dioxide as a dangerous pollutant that can be regulated should he win the presidential election on Nov. 4, opening the way for new rules on greenhouse gas emissions.

The Democratic senator from Illinois will tell the Environmental Protection Agency that it may use the 1990 Clean Air Act to set emissions limits on power plants and manufacturers, his energy adviser, Jason Grumet, said in an interview. President George W. Bush declined to curb CO2 emissions under the law even after the Supreme Court ruled in 2007 that the government may do so.

If elected, Obama would be the first president to group emissions blamed for global warming into a category of pollutants that includes lead and carbon monoxide. Obama’s rival in the presidential race, Republican Senator John McCain of Arizona, has not said how he would treat CO2 under the act.

Obama “would initiate those rulemakings,” Grumet said in an Oct. 6 interview in Boston. “He’s not going to insert political judgments to interrupt the recommendations of the scientific efforts.”

Placing heat-trapping pollutants in the same category as ozone may lead to caps on power-plant emissions and force utilities to use the most expensive systems to curb pollution. The move may halt construction plans on as many as half of the 130 proposed new U.S. coal plants.

The president may take action on new rules immediately upon taking office, said David Bookbinder, chief climate counsel for the Sierra Club. Environment groups including the Sierra Club and Natural Resources Defense Council will issue a regulatory agenda for the next president that calls for limits on CO2 from industry.

`Hit Ground Running’

“This is what they should do to hit the ground running,” Bookbinder said in an Oct. 10 telephone interview.

Separately, Congress is debating legislation to create an emissions market to address global warming, a solution endorsed by both candidates and utilities such as American Electric Power Co., the biggest U.S. producer of electricity from coal. Congress failed to pass a global-warming bill in June and how long it may take lawmakers to agree on a plan isn’t known.

“We need federal legislation to deal with greenhouse-gas emissions,” said Vicki Arroyo, general counsel for the Pew Center on Global Climate Change in Arlington, Virginia. “In the meantime, there is this vacuum. People are eager to get started on this.”

An Obama victory would help clear the deadlock in talks on an international agreement to slow global warming, Rajendra Pachauri, head of a United Nation panel of climate-change scientists, said today in Berlin. Negotiators from almost 200 countries will meet in December in Poznan, Poland, to discuss ways to limit CO2.

`Back in the Game’

“The U.S. has to move quickly domestically so we can get back in the game internationally,” Grumet said. “We cannot have a meaningful impact in the international discussion until we develop a meaningful domestic consensus. So he’ll move quickly.”

Burning coal to generate electricity produces more than a third of energy-related carbon dioxide emissions and half the U.S. power supply, according to the Energy Department. Every hour, fossil-fuel combustion generates 3.5 million tons of emissions worldwide, helping create a warming effect that “already threatens our climate,” the Paris-based International Energy Agency said.

The EPA under Bush fought the notion that the Clean Air Act applies to CO2 all the way to the Supreme Court. The law has been used successfully to regulate six pollutants, including sulfur dioxide and ozone. Regulation under the act “could result in an unprecedented expansion of EPA authority,” EPA Administrator Stephen Johnson said in July. The law “is the wrong tool for the job.”

Proponents of regulation are hoping for better results under a new president. Obama adviser Grumet, executive director of the National Commission on Energy Policy, said if Congress hasn’t acted in 18 months, about the time it would take to draft rules, the president should.

EPA Authority

“The EPA is obligated to move forward in the absence of Congressional action,” Grumet said. “If there’s no action by Congress in those 18 months, I think any responsible president would want to have the regulatory approach.”

States where coal-fired plants may be affected include Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, Texas, Montana, Minnesota, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Georgia and Florida.

The alternative, a national cap-and-trade program created by Congress, offers industry more options, said Bruce Braine, a vice president at Columbus, Ohio-based American Electric. The world’s largest cap-and-trade plan for greenhouse gases opened in Europe in 2005.

Under a cap-and-trade program, polluters may keep less- efficient plants running if they offset those emissions with investments in projects that lower pollution, such as wind-energy turbines or systems that destroy methane gas from landfills.

McCain `Not a Fan’

“Those options may still allow me to build new efficient power plants that might not meet a higher standard,” Braine said in an Oct. 9 interview. “That might be a more cost-effective way to approach it.”

McCain hasn’t said how he would approach CO2 regulation under the Clean Air Act. McCain adviser and former Central Intelligence Agency director James Woolsey said Oct. 6 that new rules may conflict with Congressional efforts. Policy adviser Rebecca Jensen Tallent said in August that McCain prefers a bill debated by Congress rather than regulations “established through one agency where one secretary is getting to make a lot of decisions.”

“He is not as big of a fan of standards-based approaches,” Arroyo said. “The Supreme Court thinks it’s clear that there is greenhouse-gas authority under the Clean Air Act. To take that off the table probably wouldn’t be very wise.”

More Efficient Technologies

How new regulations would affect the proposed U.S. coal plants depends on how they are written, said Bill Fang, climate issue director for the Edison Electric Institute, a Washington-based lobbying group for utilities. About half of the proposed plants plan to use technologies that are 20 percent more efficient than conventional coal burners.

“Several states have denied the applicability of the Clean Air Act to coal permits,” Fang said in an Oct. 10 interview.

In June, a court in Georgia stopped construction of the 1,200- megawatt Longleaf power plant, a $2 billion project, because developer Dynegy Inc. failed to consider cleaner technology.

An appeals board within the EPA is considering a challenge from the Sierra Club to Deseret Power Electric Cooperative‘s air permit for its 110-megawatt Bonanza coal plant in Utah on grounds that it failed to require controls on CO2. One megawatt is enough to power about 800 typical U.S. homes.

“Industry has woken up to the fact that a new progressive administration could move quickly to make the United States a leader rather than a laggard,” said Bruce Nilles, director of the group’s national coal campaign.

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Ed Scott
October 16, 2008 1:27 pm

Anthony, Alex Llewelyn’s statement “Not to vote for him on this one point is plain stupid” is one of self-realization. Mr. Llewelyn provides an insight to the decline of UK society.

Joel
October 16, 2008 1:29 pm

Don’t new regulations require some standard of proof, or at least a cost-benefit analysis? Am I naive to think that this will tend to deflate the hysteria around CO2? Similar to the tactic of getting some of these controversies into a court of law where all evidence can be examined?

DaveE
October 16, 2008 1:30 pm

Having been an elected official once, I decline the job. – Anthony
Which only goes to confirm what Douglas Adams said when explaining that the real ruler of the Universe was an unknown hermit, something along the lines of;
“The last person who should be given the job of President of the Universe, is someone who actually WANTS it”
Dave.

Richard111
October 16, 2008 1:35 pm

Does this mean Heinz Baked Beans will be banned?

Ed Scott
October 16, 2008 1:39 pm

Darren (11:18:46) :
Senator Biden is the Walter Mitty of politics, although my pet name for him is Gaffe-Man.

BernardP
October 16, 2008 1:42 pm

Either Obama is gravely misinformed or he is pandering cynically to the green voters. Neither of these is reassuring. The worst thing is that, overall, McCain is even less reassuring.

Robert
October 16, 2008 1:43 pm

As see (and i am for once happy that i can’t vote for the next president of the US) it is choosing between the lesser of the two evils.
The whole credit-crisis and the following economic recession will pale in comparison to what is comming next.
Co2 is a pollution that is for 96% caused by natural sources, wich makes up only 0.0385 % of the atmosphere, 4 out of every 10.000 molecules in the atmosphere is CO2, only one of those molecules has been caused by man (and we are even not sure if that figure is correct, it could be less).
Thats one molecule out of every 10.000! Or pehaps even one molecule out of every 20.000, 25.000!

Ron de Haan
October 16, 2008 1:53 pm

ACORN new task:
http://www.globalwarming.org/node/2679
If Obama wins, prepare for eco-terrorism.

Ed Scott
October 16, 2008 1:57 pm

PeteS (11:30:07) :
Have a “heart to heart” with your fellow countryman, Alex Llewelyn, discouraging though that might be.

Paddy
October 16, 2008 2:01 pm

Jeff Albers: Voting for neither Obama nor McCain is not an option. Obama poses a real danger to our constitutional Republic. If elected and provided with veto proof majorities in both houses of Congress, the destruction will begin immediately and cause irreparable harm.
We all have a duty to prevent Obama from being elected. That can only occur if McCain is elected. Not voting or voting for Nader or the Green party candidate may feel good, but is incredibly stupid.

Leon Brozyna
October 16, 2008 2:13 pm

Senator Obama embraces so much of the extreme liberal orthodoxy that his administration will make President Carter’s look like an extremely conservative one. Should he proceed as outlined in this post, he will manage to turn what will doubtless be a severe recession into a new Great Depression. We can only hope this inspires Governor Palin to make a hard run in 2012, to clean up the mess.

Ed Scott
October 16, 2008 2:39 pm

Mongo (12:23:34) :
Did you listen to the YouTube video clip of Hussein Obama explaining to Joe the Plumber that his taxes would be used to spread the wealth to those below Joe? Did the audience present understand the conversation? If they did, they were the ones who would be receiving Joe’s taxes, otherwise, as you say, the vast majority of voters do not pay attention to what this candidate (Hussein) is actually saying, because there was applause at the end of Hussein’s comments.
Using business taxes to spread the wealth to create customers for the taxed business is what I call economic perpetual motion.

October 16, 2008 2:59 pm

Back in March in New York I spoke to the “Republican Communications Director” for about 10 or 15 minutes.
Every single idea mentioned had a pro AGW slant to it.
Seems either way the election result is predetermined.
AGW WILL WIN.
I pray the weather this winter and the economies both sides of the Atlantic
force a turn around in the policies of whoever is officially or unofficially governing.
The present financial crisis is going to be chicken feed in comparison.
It’s going to be a hell of a winter..

George E. Smith
October 16, 2008 3:11 pm

From John-X….If anyone thinks they know differently, please say so. ”
Where does “new” CO2 come from – CO2 that is not part of the ‘carbon cycle’?
John, if CO2 just goes around, as in the carbon cycle; you ask where does “New” CO2 come from.
Well I seem to recall that billions of years ago there were no plants at all; so where did all that carbon come from without plants ? In fact we had 20 times as much CO2 in the atmosphere as recently as the Cambrian era.
I would venture that the same volcanic processes that brought carbon to the surface way back when, are still functioning quite well. In fact I have seen PBS programs of volcanic regions in Africa where CO2 seeping out of the ground has made CO2 traps for unsuspecting locals, whose kids walk down in a gully and get asphyxiated by CO2 layers sitting on the ground. You can toss alighted paper into the gully and watch the burning smoke float on top of the CO2, which extinguishes the paper as it sinks into the layer.
In addition to that we have the oceanic removal process. The solubility of CO2 increases at lower temperatures, so CO2 absorbed in the warm upper layers of the ocean is pumped into the cooler deeper waters, by the effect of that solubility gradient, so it remains in the ocean depths for ever.
Gee whiz ! is it possible that all those fossil fuels were once atmospheric CO2 themselves, till the plants and dinosaurs used it up.
So the burning of fossil fuels is no more new carbon than is human exhalation.
The volcanoes are the only really new source of carbon dioxide.

Novoburgo
October 16, 2008 3:18 pm

The human exhalation problem will be mitigated by requiring each citizen to carry with them a shrub/bush/tree, to help absorb pollutants generated by their life support systems. Parents would be responsible for dependents and the state would have to provide for the incarcerated, the indigent, and those people living in flora deprived environments.

davidgmills
October 16, 2008 3:27 pm

I used to think that the politicians were gutless. Now I am beginning to believe that scientists are even more gutless.
This wouldn’t even be a political issue if the scientific community had stood up to those who claimed “consensus.” What the hell is a politician supposed to do, dismiss the gods of science?
I think there are too many scientists who care about their pocketbooks first and promoting scientific awareness second. Too many scientists depend on the government for their paychecks, either directly, or indirectly through government grants or government contracts.
Stand up and grow some spine. Put your paychecks on the line. If you don’t like the politicians following the lead of the alpha dog of the pack of scientists, speak up (bark) loud and long. Most people can’t hear you yet. And the ones who are listening still are not sure what the message is other than the alpha dog is wrong.

Gary Hladik
October 16, 2008 3:40 pm

Thomas Gough, fossil fuels are also part of the carbon cycle; they just haven’t been participating for the last few million years. 🙂
Bruce, as a Californian I can tell you that one of the consequences of living next to a third world nation is bilingual ballots; Canadians will just have to learn to live wi– Oh, wait…
Imman, I’m not disparaging anyone’s religion, but I’m naturally a wee bit suspicious of people/organizations who predict doomsday but coincidentally happen to be selling protection from it *cough*AlGore*cough*Greenpeace*cough*Obama*cough*.

Imman
October 16, 2008 3:42 pm

philw1776,
You say “Please, spare us the moonbattery in this science blog.”
Moonbattery? Science blog? Perhaps you should look at the top of this webpage.
Here, let me help you. It says “Commentary on puzzling things in life, nature, science, technology, and recent news by Anthony Watts”
I didn’t see anything that limits discussion strictly to science there, do you?
And if you would like to continue patronizing me, I would be happy to discuss the “science” with you in regards to climate change and how it is an exagerated hoax.
Save the seals, huh? I assume that you are a warming alarrmist. Very well, let’s have at it Phillip.

jae
October 16, 2008 3:47 pm

Mr. Barack Hussein Obama will say ANYTHING to get elected. He will change ANY OPINION(except taxing the hell out of us) to get elected. He will tell any LIE to get elected (as proven by his recent comments about his association with ACORN). His advisors have told him that the majority believe in AGW, so he is championing this cause, also. He’s chicken little with no spine.

TerryS
October 16, 2008 3:57 pm

Are there regulations on the disposal of “Dangerous Pollutants”. Will anybody who disposes of these pollutants have to be licensed? Will this mean that all organic farmers have to be licensed as disposers of this pollutant?

Jeff L
October 16, 2008 4:04 pm

There is an optomistic view to be had here. If Obama wants to make this a matter of law, then AGW would have to stand up in a court of law. This should be the last thing the enviros want because the fact set simply isn’t in their favor. I say bring it on – let’s try this in a court of law. I am confident the ruling would be in favor of natural causes over manmade and that CO2 is in fact not a pollutant as they would define it. It would end the arguement fair & square & we could get on with focusing on real problems.

John-X
October 16, 2008 4:07 pm

Imman (12:51:06) :
” According to you, the ‘end of time’ prophecy has already [happened]. ”
The End of the World did already happen. It was in the 1970s. I was there, I remember it.
Fragile world economies dependent on Arab oil…yup
War in the Mideast… yup, been there, did that
“Russian” retaliation (actually it was “Soviet” retaliation – they were actually bigger and badder than 21st Century Russia) – check.
So, um, yeah, End of the World has come and gone. That and disco (they may have been the same thing).

jae
October 16, 2008 4:16 pm

As someone pointed out above, it is not feasible to use the 1990 Clean Air Act to regulate CO2. The Prevention of Significant Deterioration (PSD) section would require any industry with more than 250 tons/year of emissions to install Best Available Control Technology (BACT) or Lowest Achievable Emission Rate (LAER) technology to decrease emissions. Most small businesses would emit more than that if they have any type of boiler or process heater. Obama and his advisors evidentl know nothing about the Clean Air Act, or they don’t care about business. Well, come to think of it….

Michael J. Bentley
October 16, 2008 4:33 pm

Cedarhill:
Ya know, my worry is most Americans are that dense. After teaching a high school (sound) course, I’ve really been concerned about the voters out there. Obama is charismatic, well spoken, good looking and in my wife’s words “carries himself well”. McCain (who has embraced the green script) is old, not too pretty, not as well spoken, and well, not charismatic (in addition to being associated with GWB- kinda like acne). Humm, Don’t know history, civics or have had to join the military or some other organization where I might have to associate with “those people”. Guess what? I’m voting for the pretty one.
Bruce,
Damn you eh!/scarstic! Seriously, thanks for the kick in the butt. It would be interesting to see refugees going to Canada to escape the energy poor US of A. Quite opposite of the scenes in “Day After Tomorrow”.
PS. Would you accept an aged engineer??
Joel,
Remember, Figures don’t lie, but liers figure… Look at the traction the UN and Hansen have…Al Gore, he’s just a shill.
The Upshot:
Well, in the US we’re stuck with leaders who are clueless, voters who are brainless, and scientists who are gutless. In addition, those few who speak out are labeled as less than human, and those who shout loudest win.
I fought for this in Viet Nam? (or WWII or Korea or Iraq (one and two) or Afganistan or Bosnia, or ….(add here)
McCain, you’ve forgotten your bothers! Obama you don’t even know your overall history!
Humph!
Mike

Pamela Gray
October 16, 2008 4:40 pm

Goodness. Some of us are beginning to sound like that website that is keeping count of the number of events that are caused by AGW. The sore corn on your foot will not be caused by Obama if he becomes the president. The sky will not fall on your head if Obama becomes the president. Maybe if we looked at these candidates with the same serious, scrutiny and search for accurate information and data instead of AGW-style spin, the discussion could rise to that of our discussion and debate on natural variability. One can only hope.

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