Does Hansen’s Error “Matter”?
There’s been quite a bit of publicity about Hansen’s Y2K error and the
change in the U.S. leaderboard (by which 1934 is the new warmest U.S. year)
in the right-wing blogosphere. In contrast,
realclimate has dismissed it a triviality and the climate blogosphere is
doing its best to ignore the matter entirely.
My own view has been that
matter is certainly not the triviality that Gavin Schmidt would have you
believe, but neither is it any magic bullet. I think that the point is
significant for reasons that have mostly eluded commentators on both sides.
Station Data
First, let’s start with the impact of Hansen’s error on individual station
histories (and my examination of this matter arose from examination of
individual station histories and not because of the global record.) GISS
provides an excellent and popular
for plotting temperature histories of individual stations. Many such
histories have been posted up in connection with the ongoing examination of
surface station quality at surfacestations.org. Here’s an example of this
type of graphic:

Figure 1. Plot of Detroit Lakes MN using GISS software
But it’s presumably not just Anthony Watts and surfacestations.org
readers that have used these GISS station plots; presumably scientists and
other members of the public have used this GISS information. The Hansen
error is far from trivial at the level of individual stations. Grand Canyon
was one of the stations previously discussed at climateaudit.org in
connection with Tucson urban heat island. In this case, the Hansen error was
about 0.5 deg C. Some discrepancies are 1 deg C or higher.

Figure 2. Grand Canyon Adjustments
Not all station errors lead to positive steps. There is a bimodal
distribution of errors reported earlier at
CA here , with many
stations having negative steps. There is a positive skew so that the impact
of the step error is about 0.15 deg C according to Hansen. However, as you
can see from the distribution, the impact on the majority of stations is
substantially higher than 0.15 deg. For users of information regarding
individual stations, the changes may be highly relevant.
GISS recognized that the error had a significant impact on individual
stations and took rapid steps to revise their station data (and indeed the
form of their revision seems far from ideal indicating the haste of their
revision.) GISS failed to provide any explicit notice or warning on their
station data webpage that the data had been changed, or an explicit notice
to users who had downloaded data or graphs in the past that there had been
significant changes to many U.S. series. This obligation existed regardless
of any impact on world totals.

Figure 3. Distribution of Step Errors
GISS has emphasized recently that the U.S. constitutes only 2% of global
land surface, arguing that the impact of the error is negligible on the
global averagel. While this may be so for users of the GISS global average,
U.S. HCN stations constitute about 50% of active (with values in 2004 or
later) stations in the GISS network (as shown below). The sharp downward
step in station counts after March 2006 in the right panel shows the last
month in which USHCN data is presently included in the GISS system. The
Hansen error affects all the USHCN stations and, to the extent that users of
the GISS system are interested in individual stations, the number of
affected stations is far from insignificant, regardless of the impact on
global averages.

Figure 4. Number of Time Series in GISS Network. This includes all versions
in the GISS network and exaggerates the population in the 1980s as several
different (and usually similar) versions of the same data are often
included.
U.S. Temperature History
The Hansen error also has a significant impact on the GISS estimate of U.S.
temperature history with estimates for 2000 and later being lowered by about
0.15 deg C (2006 by 0.10 deg C). Again GISS moved quickly to revise their
online information changing their
data on Aug 7, 2007. Even though Gavin Schmidt of GISS and realclimate
said that changes of 0.1 deg C in individual years were “significant”,
GISS did not explicitly announce these changes or alert readers that a
“significant” change had occurred for values from 2000-2006. Obviously they
would have been entitled to observe that the changes in the U.S. record did
not have a material impact on the world record, but it would have been
appropriate for them to have provided explicit notice of the changes to the
U.S. record given that the changes resulted from an error.
The changes in the U.S. history were not brought to the attention of
readers by GISS itself, but in
this post at climateaudit. As a result of the GISS revisions, there was
a change in the “leader board” and 1934 emerged as the warmest U.S. year and
more warm years were in the top ten from the 1930s than from the past 10
years. This has been widely discussed in the right-wing blogosphere and has
been acknowledged at
realclimate as follows:
The net effect of the change was to reduce mean US anomalies by
about 0.15 ºC for the years 2000-2006. There were some very minor knock
on effects in earlier years due to the GISTEMP adjustments for rural vs.
urban trends. In the global or hemispheric mean, the differences were
imperceptible (since the US is only a small fraction of the global
area).
There were however some very minor re-arrangements in the various
rankings (see data). Specifically, where 1998 (1.24 ºC anomaly compared
to 1951-1980) had previously just beaten out 1934 (1.23 ºC) for the top
US year, it now just misses: 1934 1.25ºC vs. 1998 1.23ºC. None of these
differences are statistically significant.
In my opinion, it would have been more appropriate for Gavin Schmidt of
GISS (who was copied on the GISS correspondence to me) to ensure that a
statement like this was on the caption to the U.S. temperature history on
the GISS webpage, rather than after the fact at realclimate.
Obviously much of the blogosphere delight in the leader board changes is
a reaction to many fevered press releases and news stories about year x
being the “warmest year”. For example, on Jan 7, 2007, NOAA
The 2006 average annual temperature for the contiguous U.S. was
the warmest on record.
This press release was widely covered as you can determine by googling
“warmest year 2006 united states”. Now NOAA and NASA are different
organizations and NOAA, not NASA, made the above press release, but members
of the public can surely be forgiven for not making fine distinctions
between different alphabet soups. I think that NASA might reasonably have
foreseen that the change in rankings would catch the interest of the public
and, had they made a proper report on their webpage, they might have
forestalled much subsequent criticism.
In addition, while Schmidt describes the changes atop the leader board as
“very minor re-arrangements”, many followers of the climate debate are aware
of intense battles over 0.1 or 0.2 degree (consider the satellite battles.)
Readers might perform a little thought experiment: suppose that Spencer and
Christy had published a temperature history in which they claimed that 1934
was the warmest U.S. year on record and then it turned out that they had
been a computer programming error opposite to the one that Hansen made, that
Wentz and Mears discovered there was an error of 0.15 deg C in the Spencer
and Christy results and, after fiixing this error, it turned out that 2006
was the warmest year on record. Would realclimate simply describe this as a
“very minor re-arrangement”?
So while the Hansen error did not have a material impact on world
temperatures, it did have a very substantial impact on U.S. station data and
a “significant” impact on the U.S. average. Both of these surely “matter”
and both deserved formal notice from Hansen and GISS.
Can GISS Adjustments “Fix” Bad Data?
Now my original interest in GISS adjustments did not arise abstractly,
but in the context of surface station quality. Climatological stations are
supposed to meet a variety of quality standards, including the relatively
undemanding requirement of being 100 feet (30 meters) from paved surfaces.
Anthony Watts and volunteers of surfacestations.org have documented one
defective site after another, including a weather station in a parking lot
at the University of Arizona where MBH coauthor Malcolm Hughes is employed,
shown below.

Figure 5. Tucson University of Arizona Weather Station
These revelations resulted in a variety of aggressive counter-attacks in
the climate blogosphere, many of which argued that, while these individual
sites may be contaminated, the “expert” software at GISS and NOAA could fix
these problems, as, for example
here .
they [NOAA and/or GISS] can “fix” the problem with math and
adjustments to the temperature record.
or here:
This assumes that contaminating influences can’t be and aren’t
being removed analytically.. I haven’t seen anyone saying such
influences shouldn’t be removed from the analysis. However I do see
professionals saying “we’ve done it”
“Fixing” bad data with software is by no means an easy thing to do (as
witness Mann’s unreported modification of principal components methodology
on tree ring networks.) The GISS adjustment schemes (despite protestations
from Schmidt that they are “clearly outlined”) are not at all easy to
replicate using the existing opaque descriptions. For example, there is
nothing in the methodological description that hints at the change in data
provenance before and after 2000 that caused the Hansen error. Because many
sites are affected by climate change, a general urban heat island effect and
local microsite changes, adjustment for heat island effects and local
microsite changes raises some complicated statistical questions, that are
nowhere discussed in the underlying references (Hansen et al 1999, 2001). In
particular, the adjustment methods are not techniques that can be looked up
in statistical literature, where their properties and biases might be
discerned. They are rather ad hoc and local techniques that may or may not
be equal to the task of “fixing” the bad data.
Making readers run the gauntlet of trying to guess the precise data sets
and precise methodologies obviously makes it very difficult to achieve any
assessment of the statistical properties. In order to test the GISS
adjustments, I requested that GISS provide me with details on their
adjustment code. They refused. Nevertheless, there are enough different
versions of U.S. station data (USHCN raw, USHCN time-of-observation
adjusted, USHCN adjusted, GHCN raw, GHCN adjusted) that one can compare GISS
raw and GISS adjusted data to other versions to get some idea of what they
did.
In the course of reviewing quality problems at various surface sites,
among other things, I compared these different versions of station data,
including a comparison of the Tucson weather station shown above to the
Grand Canyon weather station, which is presumably less affected by urban
problems. This comparison demonstrated a very odd pattern discussed
here. The adjustments show that the trend in the problematic Tucson site
was reduced in the course of the adjustments, but they also showed that the
Grand Canyon data was also adjusted, so that, instead of the 1930s being
warmer than the present as in the raw data, the 2000s were warmer than the
1930s, with a sharp increase in the 2000s.


Figure 6. Comparison of Tucson and Grand Canyon Versions
Now some portion of the post-2000 jump in adjusted Grand Canyon values
shown here is due to Hansen’s Y2K error, but it only accounts for a 0.5 deg
C jump after 2000 and does not explain why Grand Canyon values should have
been adjusted so much. In this case, the adjustments are primarily at the
USHCN stage. The USHCN station history adjustments appear particularly
troublesome to me, not just here but at other sites (e.g. Orland CA). They
end up making material changes to sites identified as “good” sites and my
impression is that the USHCN adjustment procedures may be adjusting some of
the very “best” sites (in terms of appearance and reported history) to
better fit histories from sites that are clearly non-compliant with WMO
standards (e.g. Marysville, Tucson). There are some real and interesting
statistical issues with the USHCN station history adjustment procedure and
it is ridiculous that the source code for these adjustments (and the
subsequent GISS adjustments – see bottom panel) is not available/
Closing the circle: my original interest in GISS adjustment procedures
was not an abstract interest, but a specific interest in whether GISS
adjustment procedures were equal to the challenge of “fixing” bad data. If
one views the above assessment as a type of limited software audit (limited
by lack of access to source code and operating manuals), one can say firmly
that the GISS software had not only failed to pick up and correct fictitious
steps of up to 1 deg C, but that GISS actually introduced this error in the
course of their programming.
According to any reasonable audit standards, one would conclude that the
GISS software had failed this particular test. While GISS can (and has)
patched the particular error that I reported to them, their patching hardly
proves the merit of the GISS (and USHCN) adjustment procedures. These need
to be carefully examined. This was a crying need prior to the identification
of the Hansen error and would have been a crying need even without the
Hansen error.
One practical effect of the error is that it surely becomes much harder
for GISS to continue the obstruction of detailed examination of their source
code and methodologies after the embarrassment of this particular incident.
GISS itself has no policy against placing source code online and, indeed, a
huge amount of code for their climate model is online. So it’s hard to
understand their present stubbornness.
The U.S. and the Rest of the World
Schmidt observed that the U.S. accounts for only 2% of the world’s land
surface and that the correction of this error in the U.S. has “minimal
impact on the world data”, which he illustrated by comparing the U.S. index
to the global index. I’ve re-plotted this from original data on a common
scale. Even without the recent changes, the U.S. history contrasts with the
global history: the U.S. history has a rather minimal trend if any since the
1930s, while the ROW has a very pronounced trend since the 1930s.


Re-plotted from GISS Fig A and GFig D data.
These differences are attributed to “regional” differences and it is
quite possible that this is a complete explanation. However, this conclusion
is complicated by a number of important methodological differences between
the U.S. and the ROW. In the U.S., despite the criticisms being rendered at
surfacestations.org, there are many rural stations that have been in
existence over a relatively long period of time; while one may cavil at how
NOAA and/or GISS have carried out adjustments, they have collected metadata
for many stations and made a concerted effort to adjust for such metadata.
On the other hand, many of the stations in China, Indonesia, Brazil and
elsewhere are in urban areas (such as Shanghai or Beijing). In some of the
major indexes (CRU,NOAA), there appears to be no attempt whatever to adjust
for urbanization. GISS does report an effort to adjust for urbanization in
some cases, but their ability to do so depends on the existence of nearby
rural stations, which are not always available. Thus, ithere is a real
concern that the need for urban adjustment is most severe in the very areas
where adjustments are either not made or not accurately made.
In its consideration of possible urbanization and/or microsite effects,
IPCC has taken the position that urban effects are negligible, relying on a
very few studies (Jones et al 1990, Peterson et al 2003, Parker 2005, 2006),
each of which has been discussed at length at this site. In my opinion, none
of these studies can be relied on for concluding that urbanization impacts
have been avoided in the ROW sites contributing to the overall history.
One more story to conclude. Non-compliant surface stations were reported
in the formal academic literature by Pielke and Davey (2005) who described a
number of non-compliant sites in eastern Colorado. In NOAA’s official
response to this criticism, Vose et al (2005) said in effect –
it doesn’t matter. It’s only eastern Colorado. You
haven’t proved that there are problems anywhere else in the United
States.
In most businesses, the identification of glaring problems, even in a
restricted region like eastern Colorado, would prompt an immediate
evaluation to ensure that problems did not actually exist. However, that
does not appear to have taken place and matters rested until Anthony Watts
and the volunteers at surfacestations.org launched a concerted effort to
evaluate stations in other parts of the country and determined that the
problems were not only just as bad as eastern Colorado, but in some cases
were much worse.
Now in response to problems with both station quality and adjustment
software, Schmidt and Hansen say in effect, as NOAA did before them –
it doesn’t matter. It’s only the United States.
You haven’t proved that there are problems anywhere else in the world.
Gunnar:
Very interesting, but I thought your position on CO2 changes was minority (I know that doesn’t mean wrong) even among GW skeptics, and that most such skeptics just thought it wouldn’t make that much difference, or etc. How widely shared are your views? And even if something varies around time to time and place to place, the world yearly average and its changes would be important, and it looked like most measurements were around 0.03% for a long time (tx for catching typo earlier.) Has anyone good data (non-Mauna Loa restricted) to derive that, where could I see a graph, or would you say the variability is just too much to make an averaged graph worthwhile? I would like to find out more about those plants that needed more CO2 etc.
Finally, re Arhennius: people like that are often referenced to show that if someone in their position believed something, it (the idea itself) gets more credibility since at least they wouldn’t have bad motives – not to compare to other persons. Yes, his early ideas had to be adjusted, but not overturned as such. In this case there unfortunately are grounds for having “bad motives” on all sides, with variable effects depending on personal susceptibility.
OK the discussion is going on to CO2 but we are talking about the near surface temperature record in the post, let’s stay on topic please.
CO2 is for another thread.
>> let’s stay on topic please.
Well, (trying to think of way that I can refocus the point into what you’re interested in, which is auditing surface climate stations)….
Why not demand that C02 measuring equipment be included in the standard climate monitoring station (not the weather stations).
>> CO2 is for another thread
Fred & Neil, I’ll have to continue this on my own blog (coming soon) at http://www.critical-thinker.org.
Steve M is focused on auditing statistics, and Anthony W is focused on auditing stations. Both are very worthwhile efforts, but my focus is on science and logic.
Here is said (from Real Climate) to be a link for fairly recent code, SW etc. to various extents, some apparently needing special access and some not:
NASA Link
Steve’s post has got a lot of people talking about a subject that has long been debated in the comments at Climate Audit. Everyone can understand why a site overtaken by gradual urbanization requires a downward correction over time. But why do good, pristine rural sites get an upwards correction? As the post mentions, the intent seems to be that all the sites show similar trends, not to correct biased data. Homogenization only works if the error is random. Attempting to homogenize a bias simply spreads the error around.
Now that surfacestations.org has surveyed nearly 25% of the stations, it makes sense to identify a dozen or so “good” sites and use the various data sets to drill down into what corrections have been applied. These good sites would meet the following criteria:
1) few if any moves (from NOAA meta data)
2) no urbanization within 20(?) miles (from aerial photos)
3) no microsite issues (from surfacestations.org database)
4) use of standardized equipment (from NOAA meta data)
Using the data available from GISS and NCDC, the data series could be parsed to determine which corrections are applied and when. Relatively non-controversial (and well-documented) corrections such as TOBS and conversion to MMTS could be isolated and removed to highlight remaining corrections of a more mysterious nature. Since the selected sites are supposed to be “good” and not requiring additional corrections (based on the selection criteria listed above), GISS should be pressed for a justification for the adjustments.
Steve has already ready done this to some extent with Orland, CA and Grand Canyon, AZ and it has raised a number of interesting questions. This could be turned into a very persuasive paper by increasing the sample size, fully documenting that the site is “good” and clearly isolating the adjustments. With enough exposure, GISS may feel compelled to respond and explain the justification for adjustments to sites that do not appear to require it. (Then again they may not.)
I’ve started to put something together like this. If anyone is working on something similar or has any ideas, please comment.
Now that U.S. temperatures have been “adjusted”, and since we are now told this is insignificant because after all, ‘it’s GLOBAL warming, stupid’, a few questions arise in my mind:
1) Who compiles the data for global temperatures?
2) What countries are the data from?
3) What standards apply to assure quality of these measurements?
4) Are the data as or more reliable than U.S.?
5) Is there a list of those sites?
Lastly, will the issues of UHI ever be addressed for both U.S. and ‘global’ temperature data?
If this were a laboratory experiment and I presented the methodology by which the data is obtained in the world of climate science, my employment status would not be in question; I’d have been fired many years ago. Ah, government jobs do have their advantages I suppose.
http://www.biokurs.de/treibhaus/180CO2_supp.htm
180 Years of atmospheric CO 2 Gas Analysis by Chemical Methods
ENERGY & ENVIRONMENT VOLUME 18 No. 2, 2007
I’m surprised that you all are not familiar with the above which shows 90,000 chemical analyses of atmospheric CO2 from 53 locations over 150 years.
It clearly shows CO2 levels have hit 400ppm and over at least 3x before now during the 19th and 20th centuries.
Neil B.,
We’ve seen that link before, and it’s a red herring. That is NOT a link to code related to the GISS surface temperature products, but is their Global Climate model.
RE TCO,
Off topic, but can you recommend any particular books about science and engineering managment from the 1950s?
In reference to homogenization, from what I’ve read (at least in the v2 documentation) they are looking at surrounding sites:
“It was assumed
that the reference series accurately reflected the climate
of the region so that any significant departures
from climatology could be directly associated with
discontinuities in the station data.”
The is from the documents listed here:
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/ghcn-monthly/index.php
It sounds to me as if a possible error could be when a rural site is surrounded by sites contaminated by UHIE it might be subject to “correction”.
Also the splicing that is done for the global sites makes our critiques of the US data look like nitpicking. Foriegn sites are at least an order of maginitude more suspect.
“It sounds to me as if a possible error could be when a rural site is surrounded by sites contaminated by UHIE it might be subject to “correction”.”
That’s a good part of it. Another concern is that a station with microsite issues could also be used to homegenize good sites (regardless of being rural or urban) since GISS doesn’t seem to make any effort to weed out stations with microsite issues. As virtually all of the microsite issues seem to cause a positive bias, the error is simply split up among many stations (including good ones), not removed.
“It sounds to me as if a possible error could be when a rural site is surrounded by sites contaminated by UHIE it might be subject to “correction”.”
Bingo. The GISS analysis assumes all stations are of equal quality when photos clearly show that is not true. This assumption just spreads the UHIE around to all stations and then they claim it isn’t there.
Another problem is that corrections for station relocations can be dependent upon the order in which comparison to nearby stations are made. Kind of like vector addition instead of scalar addition. If an error is made in one adjustment, that error will propagate through the entire network of comparison stations.
Anthony, my position, which I’ve said before, is that if you measure the air 5 feet above a surface, you are not getting anything but how air mixes with the thermal properties of the surface 5 feet above that surface. What that means overall, or how representative of the area it is, those are other issues. If you don’t combine that air temperature with the material under it, as well as the humidity, wind, and amount of sun at the location, I don’t think just air temp is very helpful. As to how much CO2 there is, who cares. 🙂
Or as Bob says, if you don’t know what’s wrong, how can you correct for it? That’s why the station surveys, including photographs for reference, is something that needs to be done.
The sad thing is that it needs to be done. 🙁
TCO, glad to see you agree that the specific information to replicate the adjustments just as they did them should be provided. I mean, I assume that, when you said “To show the new and original data” it’s what you meant.
Fred, I think you’re missing a few things in your comment to Neil B.
The IPCC doesn’t just focus on CO2, they include land use and aerosols. But strangly that mainly doesn’t get picked up and reported. That’s what bothers some people, various ones, because the non-CO2 part of the equation is basicially being ignored on a policy and press level.
I’d say we’re sure CO2 does, simply by absorbing IR, add “something” “in some way” to the “temperature”. In what specific ways and how much is another matter! The physics involved shows it does absorb/transfer/create heat (however you want to quibble about which specifically and how exactly). Then we have the sun, bingo. But it could be the other way around, hotter equals less absorbing of CO2 out of the air. Whatever. The disagreements are all about the specifics. That’s why everyone argues about it from different directions and in different ways.
It’s like talking about Mars or Venus or Jupiter or Saturn or Mercury versus Earth; don’t mix up the fact that if it wasn’t CO2 + heat it would be something else with proof of anything, or believe they can be compared. Or look at it another way: if the heat can’t “get out” nothing needs to absorb it anyway. But hey, everything with heat has an atmosphere, eh?
I think your Martians With Death Rays analogy is a bit excessive tho. It depends on how the argument is presented, not the argument itself. Rather than endlessly discussing the “unknown but tends to seem” role of CO2 and its extent, it’s something that should basically be ignored. No matter if AGW is real or not, there’s no reason not to develop renewable energy sources like solar (getting cheaper all the time btw) and letting technology and world wealth increase “fix” whatever problem there may or may not be. The details, or even the if; unimportant. A clean environment, reducing the impact of having to buy fuel from others on a nation’s economic system and national security basis and so on — That has nothing to do with AGW, really. Has the solar panel industry been working to reduce AGW as their goal? AGW is a non-issue if they haven’t been! “Fixing” AGW would be just a side effect. As in, not doing it “in case AGW is real and bad” but doing it for other reasons that stand on their own regardless. It makes the point moot, because it’s not the point! 🙂
All that said, the materials to replicate the adjustments should be given regardless. Nothing wrong with a little auditing from time to time. But at the end of the day, it probably doesn’t really matter….
Evan!
“That anyone who refuses to reveal his data and workings is not a scientist, and his work product is not science.”
Neil B, it’s not been shown that the seas are doing anything particularly unusual. In fact, what’s probably more unusual is that they’re as stable as they are! The satellite rise of the surface temperatures is pretty wimpy overall. But YMMV depending on location and weather patterns at any given time. The hurricane predictions have been way off (far lower) recently also.
Bob’s got it all right there, and well said!!!
Jim, water is responsible for 95% of the “greenhouse effect” because of the amount of it and the way the carbon cycle works. (Water includes vapor, ice in or on clouds/glaciers/ground, and seas) The reason it’s not discussed as a GHG are a couple. One is that we basically have no control over it, it doesn’t stay in any one place as vapor very long, and it almost never absorbs IR. Another is that because of this (and other reasons) the press and others are not aware it’s the primary GHG. They are sloppy (at best) in their explanation of it most of the time.
The correct explanation is that water vapor is the primary GHG and CO2 is the primary forcing GHG. Although not the strongest one. I’d say like water vapor, it’s not really the behavior, it’s the amount of it. This gets left off the discussion.
Gunnar, you are correct, and as you know I agree with you. Although I would phrase it another way of course; “estimated by sampling” On your other comment, I doubt that AGW is about restricting human activity. It’s just people that are worried and are trying to get people to understand how bad it all is, because they believe they know the truth and that others don’t. This to me is why so many refer to it as a religion, but to me it’s not. It’s a belief system, and I believe it’s a political one. I’m pretty sure mostly it’s done with good intentions. That many don’t understand some people just don’t agree with them and/or share their world view is the only thing that’s ever bothered me. I’m sure some are intending to restrict or control or have ulterior motives, but suffice it to say I’m not going to run around attributing motives to people I don’t know. Even if that person is acting like a jerk or an elitist or what have you. I think many times it’s just a case of a different worldview. Oh well.
Rick, nah, probably nobody does know much. I think it’s mostly a guessing game, which is why I never get too upset about any of it.
M. Simon, it surprises me people don’t understand that when you’re not transparent, it doesn’t matter why you aren’t. I makes people wonder why you’re not, so all you can do is guess at possibilites. Some of which are not as nice as others.
Nicholas, that is correct. But when somebody wants to check your work, and so many people just attribute random unknown motives to it (“You just want to invalidate the surface network!” or some such), it makes it a social thing more so than anything else.
To those who mentioned microsite problems in response to my last post. I agree they’re as big a problem as classic UHIE. They’re assuming the algorithm takes care of unidentified changes.
The ordering of how they do the adjustments is a big unknown, as is the rest of the actual code/algorthms. What the papers say doesn’t mean a thing, because I can say I’m doing X when actually the code does Y. The splicing of USHCN data to GHCN is a prime example.
I wonder if there are any statistics on how many “fixes” are done?
“But why do good, pristine rural sites get an upwards correction?”
And why is the overall adjustment up instead of down?
And why is the post 1980 data adjusted up even more than the pre-1980 data when all sense and reason would seem to cry out for the very opposite?
Ah, the questions we ask. We want to know why.
Why?
Why as reason? Why as motive? Why as a way of life? The Big Why?
Mike: Back at you.
After periof of shock, am attempting to regain perspecive. But SHEESH!
How could my liberals side up with non-disclosure, I ask? (The “Big How” is the other question, I guess.)
Evan,
Rural sites getting upwards corrections? Look at the surrounding sites to see if they’re dragging the rural site up.
Why? Because that’s what their expectations are, based on their preconceptions, so they adjust the data accordingly. Lysenkoism in Russia for example.
Why no disclosure? Bad people would only use the information to discredit the TRUTH. (talk about Creationism, this is Ecologism run rampant)
>> I’m not going to run around attributing motives to people I don’t know.
What are the possible “good faith” motives for manipulating data to support a certain political position?
>> I doubt that AGW is about restricting human activity
Do you have any support for your position? What solutions have been proposed by AGWers that don’t involve restricting human activity and freedom?
About a month ago, I joked that soon, they will come out against sporting events. To my chagrin, they did just that about a week ago. This is no joke Mike, this is not about reducing our dependence on foreign oil for national security reasons, and you know it. They would not accept massive drilling for our own oil as “solving” anything. You are deluding yourself if you think solar or wind can ever compete with burning hydrocarbons.
Solar panels (I attribute this to laptop computers and their screens getting bigger and cheaper) are starting to get worthwhile. If they’ll compete, I think some day. And if somebody has enough money they can largely get off the grid right now with solar and wind. Maybe in 200 years everyone will have a hydrogen fusion reactor. But don’t get me wrong, I don’t think we’ll run out of oil or remove it from the equation any time soon, no. Plus you need it to make plastic and roads and solar panels and…
And as I said some folks are indeed with very specific motives. They are the ones at the forefront. I’m mainly speaking about the average person, not the ones that do indeed seem to have the agenda you accuse them of. So I guess I’m agreeing with you. 🙂
Interesting, so we have no accurate data about global temperature change? I’m sure opponents of Global Warming will try and use this as fuel to deny that glaciers are disappearing and that the ice caps are disintegrating, and that ‘sea level’ is rising. And I’m sure supporters of Global Warming will duck and juke and make the claim that the absence of accurate evidence doesn’t constitute evidence of the absence of evidence. And I’m also sure that both sides will continue to concentrate more on assigning blame than seeking solutions.
Any ‘reasonable person’ can look around and agree that if Polar Bears are starving because the ice is gone, the Earth must be warming up. Does it matter why? Does it matter what’s to blame? Or does it just matter that we start adjusting and adapting to our new environment?
>> Polar Bears are starving because the ice is gone, the Earth must be warming up
Ahh, that’s your logic? A change in the weather pattern? So, should we conclude that since the South pole is cooling, earth is cooling?
And btw, polar bears don’t eat ice. The reports are that they are doing fine, but why should we care?
>> Does it matter why?
Yes, if we falsely concluded that drinking tea is causing the sun to explode, then we might all stop drinking tea for no good reason. Yea, the reason matters.
It is nice to see that good ol’ Wikipedia Bill (william connolley) is actively engaged in damage control to limit the spread of this ‘heresy’ into his little fifedom of WikiClimate.
Hi, having gathered data, reviewed data gathering, and written publications for the US GOV for the last 26 years I can state with great confidence that errors in data are very common. In some cases, although not the general rule, I saw data gatherers just make up the data because they were too lazy to do their job. Many times I saw numerous data entry errors, this is extremely common. Also, in the publication process itself error is introduced. I can site many, many concrete examples of this and point to errors in official US GOV publications that are recent. There is very poor quality control standards on data gathering throughout the US GOV, although to be fair it varies greatly from Agency to Agency and office to office. Also, I saw many private labs gathering data and in many cases they were doing a poorer job than we were! It’s shocking to say the least. People that make life changing important decisions based on any data without checking the source of the data, and the validity of the data, are making a mistake. My rule is if you find ONE MISTAKE you must review ALL THE DATA, because if there is one error then there will be more. No one likes to hear that, as it means a lot of work. But why is it there is always time to do it over, but never enough time to do it right the first time?
Looking at the GISS graphs, has anyone else noticed that the dip in temperature between the 1940s and 1980s corresponds with the depths of the cold war?
The world resumes warming only after the collapse of the soviet union!
The eruption of Krakatoa in the late 1880s had a profound global cooling effect. I have yet to see this being taken into account anywhere or mentioned in any analysis of global warming statistics.
Nor World War II (followed by 30 years of cooling).
No one even mentions WWII, not even around here (except me, repeatedly).