Guest essay by H. Sterling Burnett
Pope Francis evidently has decided to make fighting global warming an important papal cause in 2015. He praised the United Nations’ climate treaty efforts in Lima, Peru; the Vatican has indicated he will issue an encyclical letter to the world’s bishops; he is encouraging the world’s 1.2 billion Catholics to take up the battle against climate change; and he’s planning to address the next UN climate conference in Paris to pressure world leaders to adopt a strong climate agreement.
The Vatican Pontifical Academy of Sciences may be behind the pope’s rising interest in global warming as a moral and political cause. Its chancellor, Bishop Marcelo Sorondo, said, “Our academics supported the pope’s initiative to influence next year’s crucial decisions. The idea is to convene a meeting with leaders of the main religions to make all people aware of the state of our climate and the tragedy of social exclusion.”
Many Catholics undoubtedly support the pope’s efforts and, unlike many of his critics, I would argue the views of the pope, a significant moral leader, should be considered as climate policies are shaped. As the leader of the largest Christian denomination in the world, he is charged not just with saving souls but also with alleviating the suffering of the world’s least fortunate, and with leading the Catholic Church in efforts to make the world a better place.
Having said this, I also know moral imperatives and public policies should be grounded in the best-available science, in the reality of the human condition, and in the state of both the planet and the people. Concerning global warming, the pope evidently has been badly misinformed and led astray.
None of the disasters asserted by climate alarmists to result from global warming has come to pass. Hurricane numbers are down, deaths from natural disasters have declined, sea ice is on the rise, and crop production is increasing. Climate models have yet to be validated, missing the lull in temperature rise for the past 18 years and the declining rates of sea-level rise for the past decade. Instead, the gap between temperatures projected by climate models and temperature observed in reality grows yearly.
Investor’s Business Daily has speculated the Vatican is itching to tackle climate change, despite the above-stated facts, because,
[The] Vatican … has been infiltrated by followers of a radical green movement that is, at its core, anti-Christian, anti-people, anti-poor and anti-development. The basic tenets of Catholicism – the sanctity of human life and the value of all souls – are detested by the modern pagan environmentalists who worship the created, but not the creator. … Big Green believes that too many human beings are the basic global problem. People, according to this view, are resource destroyers. Climate change, they say, is due to the overpopulation of Mother Earth.
The pope would do well to question the sources of his information and to recognize his efforts should be focused on alleviating the poverty and suffering of billions of people in the world today. The best policy to accomplish that goal would be alleviating energy poverty worldwide.
As a CNS editorial stated,
Alex Epstein argues, rather than taking a safe climate and making it dangerous through the use of fossil fuels, we have been transforming a dangerous climate into a safer, more manageable one for human flourishing.
Humans have long fought a war with climate, and to the extent we’ve won it has been through the use of technology, most recently including, fossil fuels.
Note from Anthony:
As a Catholic myself, I’m disappointed in this stance, especially since it seems out of place with doctrines of the past where there Church denounced many issues of science through its history, only to later admit they erred, jumped to conclusions, and admitted such errors in judgment decades or centuries later.
For example, it only took the Catholic church 359 years to decide that Galileo was right after all, and that the Earth DOES in fact revolve around the Sun.
I plan to ignore the Pope and its science panel, as many are likely to do given their track record on getting science wrong in almost every case where science and religion have collided through history,
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As population must be one of the biggest drivers of increasing CO2 , then you would expect him to pass an edict allowing birth control?
John F
I disagree that population is the biggest driver. There are many large and expanding populations that had a very low net level of CO2 production per person. It is the rich who produce the most CO2.
There is a well known correlation between income and fertility. As people share in the riches of modern civilization, they have far fewer children to the point that developed countries have shrinking populations.
This implies birth control is being used.
I welcome any initiative by the religious communities to expand the upliftment of those who are in need and welcome the elimination of excessive accumulation in the midst of want. We are our brother’s keepers. That does not mean we should lose sight of good science or adopt fallacious arguments. In other words, noble goals do not have to be undergirded by false premises. Noble goals are themselves sufficient cause for moral and ethical action.
It is plain and obvious from the Copenhagen Agreement text that the ‘real plan’ is to develop a funding mechanism for poor countries – something absolutely deserved in a world that exploits the daylights out of them. The rich countries, including those ‘making the most’ from cheap overseas labour, have failed to deliver either a sensible method of international governance of such reasonable assistance and have failed to make any budgetary provision beyond the need to ‘make friends’. Does anyone think this can go on indefinitely? If the sensible few won’t do it, then the crazies will.
Well I believe that you need to have the rich people / countries in order to provide for the continuing survival of the poor; well at least at some above sub survival level.
Stop knocking the rich; and the pope is among the richest people on the planet.
I never ever got a job offer from a poor person.
The pope could put his vast collection of artworks on the market, to fund his impoverishing encyclical.
“It is the rich who produce the most CO2.” And Al Gore takes the prize. CO2 being plant food, increasing CO2 fertilizes plants that help feed the poor. This must make Al Gore a great humanitarian – there you go another nobel piece price (butchered on purpose).
Without someone to buy what ever is being produced by so called “poor” countries, they will remain poor. I also believe you are confusing developed with rich and undeveloped with poor which then initiates the debate of the future make up of developed and undeveloped. (1) You also need to understand which “poor” countries are being targeted by the UN IPCC. A number of these so called deserving countries are not so “poor”. (Check out the section on the RAF (2))
(1) http://sputniknews.com/business/20141226/1016287362.html
(2) http://unfccc.int/files/cooperation_and_support/financial_mechanism/application/pdf/background_paper.pdf
‘It is the rich who produce the most CO2.’
Today’s poor is tomorrow’s rich. The pope has not been helpful there, but OTOH, the population growth has very much ended in many papal countries, continuing fertility based only in equatorial Africa. Population growth elsewhere is caused by lowering mortality rate among elder people. That will come to an end soon.
China produces more CO2 than US or whole Europe. They have the strictest of birth controls. Germany bathes in coal power. They have totally outsourced fertility. But still the amount of Germans, Chinese and people in general has an effect on how much coal we need.
We just don’t find high fertility rates anywhere where coal is used massively. We will find coal use as soon as the fertility rate drops. The poor will come rich.
The window for papal birth control based environment protection closed already a generation ago. It’s time to use nuclear option.
By the nuclear option I mean nuclear power, of course. Birth control does not help in CO2 reduction.
Seems to me that most countries the have had daylights exploited out of them, have had corrupt leaders that were in collaboration with the “exploiters” and have expended a considerable amount of effort in establishing a culture of corruption and nepotism. This corruption has established an economic blackhole that no amount of cash redistributed from developed countries will ever be able to fill.
I think the Pope should concentrate his efforts on a much longer-lasting problem: eternal warming.
There is more than enough to deal with in “cleaning house”, as it were. Adding supposed global
warming to the to-do list will only make things worse.
Maybe the Pope/Church should be donating a lot of their riches disclosed in the recent church audit has disclosed. Wonder what their CO2 footprint is?
So much misinformation.
Here, how many people believe in the flat earth society? And was there actually one, or is it just a myth?
http://www.quora.com/What-people-fueled-the-flat-earth-theory-in-the-middle-ages-after-Ancient-Greek-astronomers-had-convincingly-shown-that-the-earth-is-round/answer/Tim-ONeill-1
‘failed to deliver either a sensible method of international governance ‘ by right thinking people who by lucky chance share the same views as you?
Oddly their has never been a muderious dictator that has come to power claiming not be interested in ‘the good of the people ‘ and amazingly its not been ‘good’ nor ‘for the people’
And by the way given endemic corruption often all that throwing endless money at poor countries has done in the past is made happier Lear Jets salesmen, Why should throwing even more money ,under ‘climate guilt ‘ at them make it different this time ?
Crispin-
You have given the wrong answer to Cain’s question. We are most assuredly not “our brother’s keepers” in the sense that we should be “keepers of sheep”. We, as Christians, are charged to love our brethren and not wish or do them ill, but we are not responsible to maintain or control them as if they were sheep. Cain’s question was a non sequitur, as both he and God knew where Abel was, and what was done to him.
Crispin: Well then, obviously we should base our “method of international government” on all the national or local governments that compelled the rich to “uplift” the poor and succeeded. You know, all those governments with a “funding mechanism” taking from rich and have the noble goal of getting it to the exploited poor. Please tell us which nation in history you’d base this on. I’m trying to make it easy on you, don’t need a gov’t that actually uplifted the poor, just give us one example of the gov’t that took from the rich and maintained prosperity. One. To G.E. Smith, the poor are very good at surviving everywhere, to the great exasperation of the greens. Humans can even adapt to poverty. When the poor do see prosperity, there are always some rich people around (who are smart enough to run when gov’t shows up looking for “funding mechanisms”).
Are you really that crazy to say that a world populate by ever growing multi billions is not going to have any impact on the environment and the availability of resources??
Paul Jackson you are right yet the champions of social justice never shine a light on the corrupt governments around the world that suck hundreds of billions of dollars out of their citizens for their personal use. Pretending that these governments are not a big part of the problem is astonishing and actually places the income redistribution agenda in the same vampire mould.
So just who (or what) is the pope giving the finger to ??
And yes, I think somebody should tell him about the population growth rate in his Brazil territory.
This UN One CC brochure to get the education systems throughout the world on the same voice regarding Climate Change makes it quite clear that CC is now just another reason for redistribution from the developed North to the South. http://uncclearn.org/sites/www.uncclearn.org/files/images/un_cclearn_brochure_final_oct_2014.pdf I think the Pope has fallen into the UN’s hype that it is a zero-sum world where economic gains have to come at someone else’s expense.
Errr…The pope is from Argentina not Brazil …
Reply to Robin below:
It should be made clear that this Pope is the first ever who is a Jesuit. If you know the history of the Jesuits, you will know that their members infiltrate to the highest levels of governments around the world, to influence policy and provide spiritual guidance to the rich and powerful. It is their modus operandi and stated goal. So it is not the Pope who has fallen for the UN propaganda, but “The Order” who is influencing the UN.
In addition to the White Pope now being under the control of the Black Pope, this Pope is a hard line “Liberation Theologist” i.e., a communist. Of course he would be for the redistributionist policies of the UN, as his Catholic Order has the stated purpose of converting the entire world back to Catholicism, by hook, crook or through the use of force (remember the Spanish Inquisition, initiated by the Jesuits and followers).
As noted in the article, his science advisor, Bishop Marcelo Sorondo, is also from Argentina, so he is without doubt a Jesuit and a Liberation Theologist also…..
For an unbiased look at the Jesuit Order (information taken from official Jesuit histories), see the Google book download:
https://books.google.com “A Candid History of the Jesuits”
The Pope simply realizes that Climate Change is no longer a scientific issue. It is a matter of Faith.
True. But it is not the Christian Faith.
The first commandment (1 of 10) is there to stop this sort of grievous error that leads to multiple breaches of the others.
Immediately, in this case, the sixth – by raising the costs of energy.
It has been a matter of faith for a number of years now. 😊
I wholeheartedly agree.
Jimbo,
If John Cooke et al had any idea of what will happen to the economy and the members of that economy i.e. you, him and me and our children- he might take another look at his faith. If it is faith that he has!
Cheers
Roger
http://www.thedemiseofchristchurch.com
The catholic church is not opposed to birth control, only those that are effective. Rather like the greens that are opposed to all effective sources of energy.
Robert,
The Church is first and foremost advocating that children being created remain a decision of the parents. The Encyclical Humae Vitae principally warned catholics against forced sterilization, forced abortion, forced infanticide brought upon parents by GOVERNMENT. That was written in 1968 just after China instituted a one child policy, regardless of the rights and interests of the parents. See Paragraph 17.
So they are opposed to those effective means that are imposed outside the marriage, artificial and especially by government or by pressure of social groups eg, the Club of Rome which started the AGW movement.
What is the MOST effective form of birth control? Abstinence. Does the Catholic Church oppose abstinence?
Namaskar,
Sustainability issue [from my book “Environment and People”]:
Few would disagree that economic development and environmental protection will top the national and international agendas in the 21st Century. Nations measure the monetary value of goods and services from economic activity as an indicator of national well-being. Current accounting systems used to estimate productivity do not reflect depletion or degradation of natural resources used to produce goods and services. During much of the 20th Century, both producers and consumers depleted natural resources with little thought for the environmental damage they were causing. We continued to overlook environmental damages until polluted land, water, food and air began threaten human health and until native species and ecosystems began disappear.
Sustainable technology focuses on pollution and cleaner technology. Pollution prevention minimizes undesirable effluents, emissions and wastes from products and processes that obviate the need for treatment and control. A preventive approach includes using fewer or non-polluting materials, designing processes that minimize waste products and pollutants and directing the latter to other useful purposes, and creating recyclable products. Cleaner technology uses less fuel or alternate fuels to produce energy and generates little or no waste for industry, agriculture and transportation. Thus sustainable technologies are those that can reduce environmental pollution through significant technical advances. Society as a whole benefits from sustainable technologies. Since the technology is the key to sustainable development, it must be commercially available, economically compatible and environmentally and socially acceptable.
The basic question that arises from how do we measure sustainable development, (1) what is it we wish to sustain and (2) over what time and what area and in locality in the world. Temporal scale of interest is probably relatively short when viewed in relation to geological time but quite long when viewed in relation to the lifetimes of people. The upper limits of special scale are constrained, with current technology, to the size of our planet. Locational prospective are also of interest in examining issues of sustainability. For agriculture systems in the developed world the main issues of sustainability include diversification from a relatively limited range of commodities and reduction of flows of nutrients and pesticides from agricultural system in to adjacent systems. For agricultural systems in developing countries the impetus must be to produce food in increasing amount without destroying the ecological base upon which plant growth is dependent. To assess the sustainability it is necessary to understand the extent and severity of environmental problems. This includes several areas but let us look at 12 priority areas, namely (1) population stabilization, (2) integrated land use planning, (3) healthy cropland and grassland, (4) woodland and re-vegetation, (5) conservation of biological diversity,
(6) control of pollution in water and air, (7) development of non-polluting renewable energy system, (8) recycling of wastes and residues, (9) ecologically compatible human settlements and slum improvement, (10) environmental education and awareness, (11) updating environmental laws, and (12) new dimensions to national security.
Industrial growth and employment is the powerful stimuli for the rapid urbanization of developing countries. Lack of planning, and collapse of infrastructure due to rapid migration frayed the urban fabric putting enormous pressure on shelter and services. It also put pressure on the water and energy. The energy needs of developing countries will grow at a faster rate than those of industrialized nations. Because 95% of the world’s projected population growth will occur in these nations, economic development is essential to their survival.
No doubt it’s exciting to search for new, supposedly “sustainable” sources of energy. But it would be great if there was also an equal emphasis placed on trying to find an economic model which does not require growth – as our current model does. That would relieve politicians of their obsession with insisting on a growing human population – which the planet clearly cannot accommodate, without extinguishing all other species but our own (except those we need for our food supply). Fewer humans would seem to be the best answer for a sustainable future for everyone.
Four decades back, governments in developing countries looked in this direction — population control. But now nobody bothered on this vital important issue except talking on greenhouse gases emissions and on this spending billions of US$ just to divert and pocket the money. In India, with the present population growth, power needs were estimated as 9% growth. The power share by source in India and USA at the end of August 2011 was as follows:
% share of source-wise energy production in
Source India/USA/Germany@ur momisugly
RES ——— 11%/03.8%/22.4%
Nuclear —— 2%/21.5%/15.9%
Hydro ——- 21%/06.0%/03.4%
Diesel/gas — 11%/19.8%/14.7%
Coal ——— 55%/48.9%/43.6%*
* coal + lignite in the case of Germany; @ur momisugly it is for 2014 for Germany and India & USA it is for 2011
The basic question is, can we reach zero emission levels by 2100 either in USA or in India with the present fossil fuel share of power production along with the growth rate [9% for India]? We must look at practical aspects rather than speculative aspects. Through population control and control on lifestyles, we can bring down the growth rate in power sector. Then only we can achieve the target. With the population growth the population is going to reach 11 billion by 2100 and thus power needs are going to be trebled under new lifestyles!!!
Some argue” that population growth is reducing gradually: For example, during the late 1960s, world population growth peaked at over 2% annually; currently, WPG is 1.14%; for 2020 the estimate is that WPG will be less than 1%; and for 2050, estimate is less than 0.5%. The primary way this has been achieved is economic: the richer the country, the lower the population growth.” But the fact is not that simple. Please read John Bellamy Foster’s book “The vulnerable planet: A short economic history of the Environment”. This was translated in to Telugu by Prajashakti a daily newspaper in Hyderabad, for which I wrote a review published on 15 July 2001. In this book, the author discussed the issue of population growth prior to industrialization to after industrialization. He says the prior to industrialization, the births and deaths are also high. After industrialization the births and deaths are low. Also, prior to industrialization the longevity was short but after industrialization the longevity changed to longer life. This is associated with change in health care system.
Population raise was projected to reach 11 billion by 2100 and at the same time, technology based lifestyle is going in the multiple levels. They are associated with losses. Taking all these factors in to account, Indian government projected growth at 9% in power sector and accordingly power industry was projected. India is looking at power saving under national action plan on climate change. Also, proposed use of solar energy in thermal power plants and reducing losses. In practical sense the renewable energy including hydro power at the most reach 50% by 2100.
Dr. S. Jeevananda Reddy
Global Warming
IPCC is a political body, prepares reports on global warming and its’ impacts on nature to serve political interests by distributing billions of US$ to serve its goal wherein top educational universities – NGOs – government agencies share.
Global temperature rise has three major components, namely, natural cyclic variation component, local and regional ecological changes component & anthropogenic greenhouse gas changes component known as global warming. Natural cyclic variation component present a 60-year cycle varying between -0.3 to +0.3 oC. Global warming component is about 50% of global temperature rise since 1950. Ecological changes play vital role at local and regional level but goes in to averaging of global temperature. They include heat-island-effect and cold-island-effect. The heat-island-effect is over emphasized in the global temperature averaging as in urban areas the met stations are densely located; and rural areas the met stations are sparsely located. Thus, the global average temperature is over estimated. This is the case with surface measurements. However, this is eliminated with satellite data. From this, it is clear that global warming component contribution to global temperature rise is less than 0.1 oC since 1950 to date. This may at the most reach 0.2 oC by the end of the century. Thus, its impact at global scale is insignificant. However, at local and regional scales, heat-island-effect and cold-island effect plays vital role.
The other major component that effect life-forms at local and regional level is the pollution and not the anthropogenic greenhouse gases. If we look at electricity production under different sources in India, USA & Germany, they all are on par in respect of pollution:
* coal + lignite in the case of Germany; @ur momisugly it is for 2014 for Germany and India & USA it is for 2011
Extremes in weather over different parts of the globe are part of the natural rhythms in meteorological parameters. They are quite different over different parts of the globe. For agriculture and water resources they play important role and thus needs characterization of such rhythmic variations and thus homogenization of regions based on such studies critical. IPCC should look in this direction to help the developing nations. At Paris meet this must be emphasized and not the issue of carbon dioxide.
Dr. S. Jeevananda Reddy
[Set ASCII text format to clarify charted list. .mod]
But CO2 has nothing to do with climate change. The science, not models, contradict climatologists. Climate is driven by the sun and the atmosphere/ocean heat interactions. Most CO2 comes from volcanoes not humans.
John, you are a pawn in the climate-confusion chess game. Too many people believe exactly what they hear in the downstream media. Will Rogers said it best “Always drink upstream from the herd”.
If he is a pawn ( or shill ), so are you. Else we would be talking verified effect of CO2 rather than projecting all over the ballpark to find that when CO2 is added as a determinant that we get results which are not only unverifiable but do not obviously indicate the truth of the modeling assumptions. As it is, there are times when such an effect would have to go into negative numbers to work. In practice, Of course, this is exactly the case, as excess solar radiation during solar flares is deflected from our planet….by CO2 in the upper atmosphere. And this is a part of the theorizing ignored as inconvenient, irrelevant, and frequency dependent when it comes to the interference of passage of light energy from Sol which is taken as a constant value ( ! presumably shown by the lack of significant temperature variation in the short term …not exactly what is being promoted )….yet it too must have a value more than zero., varying in atmosphere in both directions due to breakdown of the compound as part of natural cycles both high in the atmosphere and by action of photosynthesis – especially in the oceans. It isn’t as if algal growth from imbalance in the Nitrogen Cycle is not so extreme as to cause proliferation of toxic blue green algae and oxygen depleted dead zones. Or that growth increase due to increased CO2 levels both causes more plant growth – and accelerates the rate of conversion, liberating free oxygen. Or we could simply note the obvious : when effects like wave patterns on the oceans increase absorption past even the levels for black bodies and cloud cover variation throws generalizations completely askew by chaotic energy transfer upwards…static models relying on CO2 dominating natural cycles aren’t going to work regardless.
I make no judgement, regarding his Popeness, and his beliefs; nor of anyone who chooses to allow him to make life’s decisions for them, or follow any beliefs that he promotes; nor of anyone who chooses not to follow his instructions or beliefs. That is up to each individual as far as I am concerned.
I choose to not base anything I do, or believe, on anything he says or might say; but it is ok by me if he says it.
My MIL follows him. She’s a good person. She thinks I am too. I am.
G
AW wrote:
Ah, my friend, this is just like before
For a Pope has misfired once more
On the science, he’s wrong
But it won’t take so long
For the truth to replace “Word of Gore”
==============/ Keith DeHavelle
🙂
The Pope has made his choice. So be it. His next logical move, then, will be to advocate for birth control in all its forms (why not abortion?). After all, if Man and his industries are the source of the evil CO2, then the fewer Men the better.
It will be interesting to see how climate is worked into the Holy Mass…maybe in the prayers eliminating the incense to carry the prayers message aloft, or confessional return to inquisition. Maybe the homily will be a power point presentation on polar bears population. My imagination is pegging! ( not to mock the church … of course)
John, we are talking religion here not logic!
ivor, you should apologise for that smear.
Just thinking out loud. Why don’t we wait to see what the Pope has to say and address it specifically to see what portions are reasonable, and what portions are not?
No doubt the Pope will announce that the Catholic Church is selling all the gold, jewellery and land it has amassed over the ages, and will donate this to the $ 100 billion a year UN Climate Fund to help poor nations deal with Climate Change. No doubt.
The money from St. Peter’s in Rome alone should be able to keep the UN GCF Secretariat in Korea in clover for a month or two.
FB,
I’m kinda doubtful there with you Ferdberple.
It’s entertaining to see this article based on an article. The words of the Pope have not yet been passed on so how in the world does it come about that this site has proactively taken to a skeptical discussion of that which has not yet been said?
I’m highly confident that someone will come along to correct my view, let me know that I’m applying an invalid source (probably a wiki), how stupid I am to think this way, and that “it’s all (always) about the science!
Thank you Danny Thomas. That was my thought exactly.
It’s why I didn’t comment over at the Grauniad.
We are reacting to spin that has been created in order to influence the Pope himself.
Dear Anthony, this is just a simple thought from a baffled (although not very practising) Protestant; how can one ignore the words of the supreme leader of one’s faith, without losing faith?
Just a question, no need to answer, lest we veer into the murky dephts of religious debate.
The Pope is not infallible in matters unrelated to doctrine.
The Pope is not infallible. Fixed it for you.
One does not ignore the supreme leader of one’s faith. You don’t even ignore a bishop or your local parish priest. You respectfully, and with love, disagree with him when he errs. Of course they all have masters degrees, doctorates, and training to be modest and not spout off where there is doubt and they don’t know what they’re talking about so it honestly doesn’t come up too often these days. See the arian heresy and the story of St. Nicolas for a rare and pretty extreme example.
The Catholic doctrine of infallibility is that God protects the Pope from making errors of faith and morals. It doesn’t mean that the Holy Spirit will lead a pope to never endorse the miasma theory of disease, for example.
So veering back to climate change, if the Pope decides to wade into climate change, he is likely to do so in terms that are theologically sound whether or not they are scientifically correct. This is not a challenge to the faith. It’s also why Catholics can be modern bankers notwithstanding the encyclical Vix Prevenit that bans charging interest and ignores the issue of the time value of money.
As a Catholic also, i find it necessary to separate the essential beliefs of the faith from the clergy’s misguided statements and actions. As an example, I once had a priest tell me what a good man Bill Clinton is, in the context of his lying under oath about his sexual escapades as a married man. That priest is misguided, and i have ignored him since. That opinion is also not central to the Catholic faith.
Like many Catholics, I find it humorous that it took the Church nearly 400 years to un-excommunicate Galileo because he was right.
As a Pope with hard science background, is it possible to send him a resume(through an appropiate channel) as non biased as posible, for him to speak in a humanitarian way in a middle ground on the issue? The antihuman iniciatives are incompatible with the Church doctrine, as so many times it has spoken and clashed on almost every single issue with the UN and the EU, political correctness apart, the green lobby is 100% anti Christian and anti human, my hope is that this Pope seems to be able to find a way not to antagonize without giving in, neither giving up.
What did Bishop Sorondo mean with this; “…the tragedy of social exclusion.” ?
Was he thinking about the poor sods who do no regularly attend climate conferences?
Or perhaps the poor sods who pay for the presentations at said conferences but are financially debarred from reading the pay- walled results of the research which would not have been possible without their enforced contribution.
Welcome to the new feudalism – no surprise to see the established churches giving it their whole- hearted blessings.
I can’t speak for Bishop Sorondo but there are pretty legitimate uses of the term. If you need to spend $500 in court fees but you only have $200 to your name, you’ve been excluded from access to justice through the courts. Such exclusions disproportionately affect the poor but not exclusively so. Unless you are very well off, there are certain economic opportunities that you are excluded from due to the fact that you are probably not an accredited investor.
The exclusion of the poor from land registration and other economic protections that better off people have access to have been estimated to ‘freeze’ capital in Latin America to the tune of $1T. That’s a pretty big economic problem. It’s also a human dignity problem.
The real tragedy is that a false alarm effort to combat global warming increases social exclusion and would be a black mark against the Church.
Let’s hope he doesn’t attempt to use papal infallibility to push his views.
I don’t think you understand the notion of papal infallibility.
See here; http://www.catholic.com/tracts/papal-infallibility
” … This, too, shows an inaccurate understanding of infallibility, which applies only to solemn, official teachings on faith and morals … “
The Pope is wrong on the science just as he is often wrong on matters of economics; but that has nothing to do with the doctrine of infallibility.
Disclaimer: yes, I am also a Roman Catholic.
The problem is the way that AGW has been pushed. The Catholic Church should not concern itself with public declarations of its opinion on the science but how its portrayed. The stunt by Sorondo should be called out, as well as the use of ad hominem attacks, the propaganda and especially the worship of climate science as in “the Science says”.
Problem is, it brings the CAGW message to an audience who, otherwise may be totally uninterested and suddenly, it’s an issue for them. He doesn’t have to be correct.
Eamon.
markstoval
So the pope is right, except when he’s wrong, and (probably ) vice versa.
As Hillary so neatly opined on the deaths of 4 people who worked for the US government: “what difference does it make?”
You have the right to believe your doctrine, just don’t expect non-Catholics to ride that bus.
The church has too much demonstrated and painful history on science to be trusted.
“…thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Matt 16:18,19. KJV
@ur momisugly Chip Javert
January 4, 2015 at 8:41 pm
“So the pope is right, except when he’s wrong, and (probably ) vice versa”
No, as the link and my quote plainly says, only when there is an official statement on faith and morals that is in agreement with the bishops as a whole will the pope be infallible. And, infallible in regards to what the Roman Catholic Church has to say on faith and morals. He is “infallible” in regards to what the Church has to say on faith and morals. Most Catholics I know don’t pay much attention to that sort of ‘infallibility’. After all, saying he is infallible when speaking of church matters as he is speaking as the head of the church itself is not saying all that much.
If he does, it may mean the end of the Church as we know it. http://www.catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/is-pope-francis-the-final-roman-pontiff
This article on the prophesy that Francis will be the last Pop was a good read, but at the end of the day it’s all a load of Malachy.
One should think the Pope would recognize “The Lie” as it has manifested itself in these latter days.
By trying to reconcile all religions he is committing “The Sin” and by accepting the current narrative on climate change he is embracing “The Lie”. Here are some thoughts on “The sin of the world” and “The lie”, what does that mean?
http://lenbilen.com/2014/12/22/on-the-sin-of-the-world-and-the-lie-what-does-that-mean/
How does a man who represents an omnipotent being not accept that this may be part of His plan? Or is this related to the ability of man to choose?
And how does anyone educated person believe an agency like the UN, dominated by regimes that don’t respect basic human rights or abide by the rule of law, is interested in anything more than power?
You make a good point: do we now have the Pope ostensibly working to undo what is ordained? One thinks he would do better to reflect on his Christmas message re the on-going slaughter in the ME that getting involved in the CC discussion.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/15/pope-francis-defends-criticism-of-capitalism-not-marxist
a man who represents an omnipotent being
===============
if enough water can be turned into wine, we could use that in place of fossil fuel.
But who would drink all the leftover non-alcoholic grape juice. 🙂
The cool aid drinkers.
Sorry that should be any educated person
As of today I’ve left the Church (not the faith). Their position on global warming is the last straw for me.
Wow Pierre, that’s a pretty significant step.
Surely best to wait to see what the man has to say rather than leaping to conclusions?
Who knows, he might have something sensible to say about the ethics of advocating solutions for what may turn out to be an exaggerated problem (mostly the product of managed data fed into flawed computer models, few of which come close to predicting subsequent observed outcomes) when the solutions themselves could do more damage to communities, economies and local and global environments than what could in fact be a non-problem caused by an entirely natural climatic processes with no anthropogenic influences.
There must be a philosopher or two in the Vatican who can see through the “green blob” logic that because they want to ‘tackle climate change’ and ‘de-carbonise’ the global economy in order to save the world, anyone who doesn’t support them must want to destroy it.
This is a chance for the Pope to show real moral leadership and stand up for scepticism in science, even when it challenges the so-called consensus, as essential for humanity to develop a deeper understanding of creation and the Creator.
Since the Church has not actually issued a statement, perhaps you might consider waiting. You also might consider the long and broad history of Popes fouling up issues not related to faith and morals. Human fallibility is in play here.
WikiLeaks already blew the whistle on this a long time ago. http://archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.com/2010/12/wikileaks-green-pope-co-opted-to-global.html
I can understand that Pierre G. I left years ago for various reasons and took refuge in the C of E. Unfortunately I find myself now feeling rather unchurched as I cannot respect trendy lefty bearded bishops who expatiate on matters for which they have no qualifications whatsoever. I’m sick of the ‘social’ gospel…let’s hear the real one thanks. Caring for those around us follows the real one naturally.
Fortunately we can worship locally…like you we haven’t left the faith…just cannot bear the institution as deformed by political correctness.
As someone who has actually had the words, “so, will you excommunicate me?” pass his lips on a dispute of public policy with my bishop, I’ve actually done a bit of research. There are two kinds of errors. The first is theological. The prelate in question has abandoned the faith as taught by Jesus, the Church Fathers, the Bible, and the Magisterium. That’s when it’s appropriate to start heading for the exits in my opinion but even then, only in cases where it’s hopeless to fight on.
The other error is when the prelate believes a non-Church fact. Perhaps it’s geocentrism, perhaps it’s catastrophic anthropogenic global warming, but here there is no reason to leave at all because the error is in the area of incidentals. Now incidentals can kill you if you get them wrong. Don’t think that I’m belittling their importance. But if you plug in the same theology and faith with accurate facts and achieve a correct result, you’ve got no good reason to leave.
“Cannot bear the institution defining social correctness.” Fixed that for you. And yes, I was raised in a state church ( C of E ) promoting what should obviously be acceptable cant. My protestant relatives ( rejecting authority and dogma ) still puzzle me, I admit. How one can take a story promoted by the state to demonstrate its fear and loathing of those rejecting its claims to act as an agent of natural order and ‘goodness’ by use of false accusation, rigged trials,imprisonment, torture and murder… and use it to instead to promote literal acceptance of doctrine declared false by its protagonist ( i.e. not to be taken literally ) who advocates compassion and moderation ( the missing story of Ruth has something to say about that )…ought to show that logic has been abandoned long ago by all parties. Online can be better…http://www.religioustolerance.org/
Pierre,
I think what many Catholics are realizing is that under this Pope the Church is leaving its faithful.
Don’t leave our poor Church – we need rational people to offset the Socialists like Pope Francis.
The Copenhagen Accords would have resulted in a huge “payday” for 3rd World countries.
I believe the Pope, I believe wants that “payday” no matter what else is in the final treaty.
No they wouldn’t. The global warming funds would end up in the Swiss bank accounts of a variety of presidents, dictators and UN enablers. It is a scam. Why do you think the fund has requested global diplomatic immunity, a la UN.
I looked up some of the ‘experts’ that were at the 2014 meeting with the Pope:
Joseph Stiglitz, former Clinton econ cabinet member and member of SocialistInternational.org.
Jeffrey Sachs, Columbia Earth Institute of which George Soros is an external advisor of. Sachs can also be seen in a Party of European Sociaists video (I think it’s on vimeo.com).
A member of the Mega Cities project of which there is Rockefeller money involved.
Most of the others I haven’t looked into yet. That said, either the Pope is totally clueless as to the rabid leftists he is dealing with or he is one of them.
Given that he recently gave communism an indirect compliment and given that he recently called for governments to redistribute wealth to the poor, I think he’s one of them.
Naomi Oreskes was there. Says it all.
See oreskes disinformation today in the ny times
he recently called for governments to redistribute wealth to the poor,
================
now that the Pope has called for governments to redistribute wealth to the poor, wouldn’t the Pope welcome the chance to do his part? The Roman Catholic Church has assets aplenty. Land, precious metals and gems. Isn’t it time the Pope did his part and redistribute this to the poor as well?
Here’s an idea. why doesn’t the church fill up the collection plate with money ahead of the service, then as the plate is passed anyone that needs money can simply take what they need? Need a new car, new house. Forget about the evil bankers. Just pop down to the church for a top-up. It would sure help fill up the mostly empty church pews. A win-win.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/erasmus/2014/08/catholicism-and-liberation-theology
It should be made clear that this Pope is the first ever who is a Jesuit. If you know the history of the Jesuits, you will know that their members infiltrate to the highest levels of governments around the world, to influence policy and provide spiritual guidance to the rich and powerful. It is their modus operandi and stated goal. So it is not the Pope who has fallen for the UN propaganda, but “The Order” who is influencing the UN.
In addition to the White Pope now being under the control of the “Black Pope”, this Pope is a hard line “Liberation Theologist” i.e., a communist. Of course he would be for the redistributionist policies of the UN, as his Catholic Order has the stated purpose of converting the entire world back to Catholicism, by hook, crook or through the use of force (remember the Spanish Inquisition, initiated by the Jesuits and followers).
As noted in the article, his science advisor, Bishop Marcelo Sorondo, is also from Argentina, so he is without doubt a Jesuit and a Liberation Theologist also…..
For an unbiased look at the Jesuit Order (information taken from official Jesuit histories), see the Google book download:
https://books.google.com “A Candid History of the Jesuits”
If he is a communist he is an extremely poor one . If the UK experience is a guide the only effect Green policies have had is to redistribute wealth from the poor to the rich land owners ( eg Cameron’s father in law ) and to imperil the future power supply which will affect jobs for the many but not affect the champagne Greens of Islington, Chelsea , etc.
There was a report just before Christmas that said that in 2014 Britain 70% of elderly people were very worried about heating costs and 30% could only afford to heat one room. Redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor? Not in Britain .
I don’t know yet if the Pope is a communist, but if he is, he is an extremely rich one!
In any large wealth redistribution scheme (church or government) a significant share of the wealth flow tends to remain with the distributors. That does seem to be the point of setting one up.
Did you really think the communist leaders have the goal of helping poor people?
@Paul767: The communist leaders have the goal of helping poor people. But first the Pope must convince them that there is an afterlife of eternal paradise. Communist Bolshevik leaders helped 60 million of them get to the promised heavenly utopia.
No no no I mean distribute everybody else’s wealth.
Rabid leftists, or leftist Rabbis?
Sorry, Pope, but pro-choice or selective principles is not a Christian doctrine. The immediate, known mortal threat to millions of human lives is ending life as a statistic in the world’s abortion clinics. The imminent threat to millions of human lives is a financial bubble created by trillion dollar deficits, financialization schemes (e.g. health care “reform”), unreliable and inadequate energy production schemes, and the brittle economies left in their wake. The problem in second and third-world nations is violence, displacement, and corruption. As well as ignoring the problems through shifting unwanted men, women, and children to other nations.
“immediate, known mortal threat to millions of human lives” Not so much. Abortion affects those unborn and therefore not here. Would that you took some of your concern about killing potential humans and focused it instead on ending violent conflict…killing actual people resident on the planet. Abortion is not the issue anyway : only legality of the practice, which will be carried on with or without the consent of the state in its claim to regulate human reproduction as a right. That tends to be messy…which one might think is the point !
“The problem in second and third-world nations is violence, displacement, and corruption. ” Yes it is.
FROM WOUNDED KNEE TO SYRIA:
A CENTURY OF U.S. MILITARY INTERVENTIONS
http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html
http://www.leadingtowar.com/?gclid=CLHp59Pb_sICFc9lfgoddkwAmA
The child in the womb is not here? Go back and study your introductory biology. We kill more human beings through abortion in this country alone in one year than all the wars that this country has been involved in since its inception. Abortion deaths dwarf all of the world’s wars of history. Yes there is violence and displacement in the second and third world countries and the UN’s answer is abortion and forced sterilization. Thank God for the Catholic Church which is fighting these evils on all fronts. Abortion is a mortal threat…but according to you “not so much”? If one does not care for the most helpless among us (the child in the womb), they are not going to care about life at any stage.
[Reply: Everyone, let’s please make this the last abortion comment. That discussion never ends well. More references will be deleted, &etc. ~ mod.]
Christians hounded out of the MidEast by ‘the religion of peace.’ Not a Vatican problem. Churches going abandoned in Europe for want of paritioners. Not a Vatican problem. Priestly abuse… Only a little regional problem because of the financial damages consequences in the US. But…
Climate change merits a papal encyclical? At the same time Inhofe uses Genesis 8:22 (same Bible, same God) to argue climate change is the greatest hoax? Will not end well for either of them. Pope supporting pseudoreligious CAGW dogma while ignoring that there is no evidence for C and a long pause in W. Vatican did that before with Galileo and his telescope. Inhofe similarly spouting religious dogma arguments while ignoring evidence. Same blind faith problem, just on opposite sides of the worlds actual evidence. Warming–some. Anthropogenic– not so clear (natural variation and attribution problem). Catastrophic—evidence whatsoever given observational sensitivity and SRES.
These gentlemen provide strong reasons not to belong to either a political party or the religious equivalents.
Provide the source of the quote please.
And remarkably, Sen Inhofe has introduced a bill that would allow each state to run as much coal power as needed to meet the requirements of the state, as locally determined, making them immune from EPA restrictions.
Inhofe has done the calculations for the energy cutbacks due to coal plant shutdowns and found that there will not be enough power for winter.
If you want to wait until some proper atheist glitzy Boomer Harvard graduate does the same, please produce your man! Or is it that like most atheist libertarians, you got nothing but want to slander and kill papa, because he is not in your approved sect.
Zeke, you can get it two ways. Google ‘Inhofe greatest hoax genesis’. Takes you right to the Google owned YouTube video. Or, go to YouTube and view EKd6UJPghUS amongst several others.
A fuller discussion including Inhofe’s inconsistent previous Senate floor speech declarations is contained in the Climate Truth chapter of my 2012 ebook The Arts of Truth, on the second page of that chapter. With more references and exact quotations showing his purely political contortions starting in 2003.
Politicians like InHofe must really hate the internet, and through it the formerly inaccessible Comgressional Record. A memory they cannot now erase or hide.
Well, you presume much wrong because I criticized Inhofe for giving ‘flat earth’ ammo to Obama.
I did go to Harvard (and HLS, and HBS), but I have refused to contribute as an alum since they hired Oreskes, and will not ever again until she is gone. Wrote Pres. Drew Faust Gilpin on that personally, to get Harvard’s well organized office of big gifts off my financial back.
I am an agnostic, not an atheist. Because there are parts of all organized ‘Christian’ religions I find morally objectionable. A longer post for a different time to go into details by sect, the latgest being Catholic.
I am fiscally conservative (rules out Dems in US), socially liberal (rules out Repubs in US), and think that there are proper roles for government beyond simple obvious things like foreign policy and national defense– for example regulating any economic situation involving externalities (commons tragedies) like antitrust or pollution or public health (childhood immunizations). So definitely not Libertarian.
Which does not mean I think the EPA declaring CO2 a pollutant is correct. It is an abomination facilitated by a poorly drafted CCA, which SCOTUS was hamstrung to fix under the ‘ EPA finding of fact’ versus ‘matter of law’ distinctions that have generally served the US well for now over 200 years. Fixable by amending CCA legislatively, as anticipated by the Constitution.
Life is complicated. Get used to it.
I think it’s here.
Did Sen Inhofe really quote Genesis 8:22?
“While the earth remains,
Seedtime and harvest,
Cold and heat,
Winter and summer,
And day and night
Shall not cease.”
It does invite the imagination to ponder the amount of human sacrifices and temple prostitution that would have never taken place if this would have been understood. If we study the past of the many monolithic cultures, we find in general that at the heart of the power structures are “priesthoods” who offer their “services” in ensuring the stability of the seasons, timely rainfall, and the continued regular celestial motions of the planets. That is precisely the cultural and political realities the OT was written in.
The whole of Genesis is one in the eye for surrounding religious cults – from YHWH creating sun and moon out of nothing onwards. Whether this text proves CO2 emissions aren’t a problem is I think a stretch. If I was going to start anywhere it would be with Jesus in Matthew 5:43-48:
But there are other moral challenges here, before we get onto any promises for settled climate! As Anthony implies there’s a need for thorough investigation of the world we share, which some of us believe a perfect heavenly Father, uniquely revealed in the love of Jesus, made.
Zeke, the more juicy bits of archaeology are used to spice up books. The reality is that the priests were relied upon to guide the farming communities. They studied the stars because they clearly signaled the beginning of seasons. Their understanding did not progress to realising that weather patterns could not be predicted by the stars and it would always be (and looks like it still is) tempting for the superficial to jump on board because of its power over people – to be tempted by the privilege and not the responsibility.
The first contradiction of Copernicus’s model (after his death) was by those working on a new calendar. His model was just useless even if it is taught that the Earth orbits the Sun these days (the centre of mass is not always within the Sun). The winter solstice was a pagan celebration all over Europe (and so chosen to be the date of Christmas) with Advent and Lent important for conservation of resources in the NH. The practice of using religion to guide the community in practical ways as well as morally probably started with the regularly flooding communities of Mesopotamia and the Nile etc.
Robert B says, “The winter solstice was a pagan celebration all over Europe (and so chosen to be the date of Christmas)…”
What you say is true, that the thousands of different tribes and cultures that lived in Roman provinces had their own celebrations of the solstice. Obviously this would be the case for thousands agrarian and maritime cultures using the stars to know when to plant crops or cross the Mediterranean to trade.
When Rome conquered territories, it was standard Roman procedure to replace local gods with Roman equivalents, and to do the same with local traditional holidays. This was a matter of practice for Rome who had a vested political interest in maintaining control over these subjugated lands. So may I remind readers that in fact the Roman holiday of Saturnalia was a deliberate state enforced replacement of genuine local holidays, declared officially under the Caesars. The Roman Church with its Pontifex Maximus (the title of the head of the Roman state cult, and of the Pope) has simply continued.
The Chinese as well, Zeke? (and Slavs, Celts, Germanic tribes, all at war with Rome when they celebrated the solstice).
Yes, but as I pointed out, the festivals, holidays, traditions and what have you were celebrated by each of these hundreds of lost cultures differently, and were entirely natural since the sky and the stars provided the means of keeping time for planting and nautical travel.
In the case of the European cultures, I wish I knew what their celebrations were. What written history we have of them are through the lens of the Roman Empire. And then after that they come through a very thick academic lens – all in the absence of any writings of their own whatsoever. And as for the Chinese, as you know, Empires there also “unified” the regions and hundreds of languages were wiped out. It’s what Empires do.
inre: Sen Inhofe
Thank you both Rud and Jimbo for the source of the quote. He was answering a question during a radio interview about his own book. He said that this was one of his favorite verses, and went on to remark on the “arrogance of man” in assuming that he can control the seasons.
And now a break from our sponsor of religious freedom in the former Colonies!
So in this manner, the question that needs to be asked is, has Sen Inhofe disturbed others or caused civil injury with his sharing of his favorite verse from Genesis? My suggestion is that he has the enjoyment of his own judgments regarding the scientific paradigm that mankind is in control of the seasons. And further, Sen Inhofe has worked very hard to protect the people whose coal power is being needlessly closed, which would in turn prevent civil injury and the outward disturbance of others. He has done this by introducing a bill which would preserve the power of the individual states to have as much coal electricity as needed.
(PS I read and enjoyed your shared experiences Rud Istvan.)
This Pope is destroying the church. Practicing Catholics write about this in blogs. I can give you a really good one. Look at what has happened to Cardinal Raymond Burke. Prayerfully, there will be a new Pope this year. Also, most of the people in the “church” who adhere to this Pope’s views are NOT respecting the church with respect to abortion, contraceptives, homosexual marriage, and monogamy. PEW research indicates that Hispanic Catholics disregard the Church’s social teaching at the same time that they embrace AGW and Marxist “liberation” theology, which isn’t theology. I can not believe that my church is also disregarding its TEACHINGS instead of excommunicating these people. The blog that I can give you also suggests that this Pope was not in good standing with the church, that he had been excommunicated. It’s little wonder why this Pope is going to recognize “reformation” in two years, even though the most calamitous war in human history, the 30 years war, proceeded reformation. Of course, reformation was a result of global cooling, NOT the global warming that was occurring during the “Medieval” renaissance of Europe.
Joe, so your moral choices would seem to be to leave ‘the church’, or ‘stay’ while supressing your recognition of its errors. Good luck with either choice. I sleep better leaving unsuppressed.
Religious people should stick tp their religious belief which all operate in their virtual reality. Belief in an idol or entity of unproven worth or reality when all logic should be telling you it’s a scam is something I find hard to forgive. I have studied the faiths of the latterday saints, the catholic and the church of England. They all appear to originate from the samr pagan beliefs and rituals.
The pope should mind his own business and stay in his virtual reality. I do not want him in mine.
Okay so no jokes about the Vikings doing England a favor by removing the monks and moving in to the North Country. 😉 😀
I really do appreciate that little known biographical puzzle piece of AW’s life. And thanks for his perspective. The Pontifex Maximus did mention that some of American Catholics and Protestants would not care for this Encyclical.
He was right.
The Catholic Church has a very long history with science: all of it wrong. Why would anyone listen to the Pope on anything dealing with science?
..”The Catholic Church’s alleged hostility toward science may be her greatest debit in the popular mind. The one-sided version of the Galileo affair with which most people are familiar is very largely to blame for the widespread belief that the Church has obstructed the advance of scientific inquiry. But even if the Galileo incident had been every bit as bad as people think it was, John Henry Cardinal Newman, the celebrated nineteenth century convert from Anglicanism, found it revealing that this is practically the only example that ever comes to mind.”
From How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization by Thomas E. Woods, Jr.
Chapter Five, The Church and Science P.67
Galileo..this is practically the only example that ever comes to mind.
What about the Inquisition? Didn’t expect that, did you?
Giordano Bruno said that the Sun was a star. He also maintained that the universe was infinite and contained an infinite number of worlds, inhabited by other beings. A Copernican theorist, he was eventually burnt at the stake. We’re not sure which of his extreme heretical notions caused this–the record of his trial has been lost or hidden or destroyed. He was rather unpopular in many quarters.
Johanus: “You can never expect the Spanish Inquisition” – Monte Python
David. You are simply ignorant of the facts. Hush.
Heh. “You are simply ignorant of the facts” says the theist? Surely not.
You need to find out who first came up with the Big Bang Theory, genes, fossilization of animals (shark teeth) etc.
Yes, Big Bang Theory is Vatican’s creation, and it’s a Big Lie.
Just because Mendel was made a monk when he was 10 years old (though later openly lived with a woman), the Church cannot be given any credit in the development of genetics — which it opposed fiercely, and keeps opposing (genetics = evolution).
Shark teeth, really? Stop trying to defend the indefensible.
This is a reply to Alexander–the Catholic Church does accept the premise of evolution. It is not accepted by many Protestant sects.
Alexander, the Big Bang Theory is not a Vatican creation. A Belgium priest )Lemaitre) came up with it but it lay idle for a few years because it was published in Flemish, until Hubble revived it.
Mendel became a friar at 22 yo. No reference anywhere to living ‘openly’ with a woman.
Nicholas Steno came up with stratification to explain the presence of shark teeth like stones embedded in sedimentary rocks. Look it up.
The Catholic Church never opposed evolution. There was a Papal edict in the 19th century that there was no conflict with the science and the Bible.
I think they did pretty well on the big bang.
If it hadn’t been for the Reformation we would still be in the Dark Ages.
” For the last fifty years, virtually all historians of science – including A. C. Crombie, David Lindberg, Edward Grant, Stanley Jaki, Thomas Goldstein, and J.L. Heilbron – have concluded that the Scientific Revolution was indebted to the Catholic Church. The Catholic contribution to science went well beyond ideas – including theological ideas – to accomplished practicing scientists, many of whom were priests. For example, Father Nicolaus Steno, a Lutheran convert who became a Catholic priest, is often identified as the father of geology. The father of Egyptology was Father Athanasius Kircher. The first person to measure the rate of acceleration of a freely falling body was yet another priest, Father Giambattista Riccioli. Father Roger Boscovich is often credited as the father of modern atomic theory. Jesuits so dominated the study of earthquakes that seismolgy became known as “the Jesuit science”.”
From Chapter One of How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization
The list goes on. This is a fascinating book. I got interested in it because I’m interested in Austrian economics and many of the people of many religions or no religion who write about economics refer to St. Thomas Aquinas and others of the medieval scholastics. Thomas Aquinas was definitely a sceptic. Too bad that he isn’t here now to advise Pope Francis.
Thomas Woods is an Austrian economist – and a Catholic.
If it hadn’t been for the Reformation we would still be in the Dark Ages.
But the Reformation was led by Calvinists, who seemed to be very intolerant of “unorthodox” ideas .
Consider the case of Michael Servetus, a noted Spanish scholar, scientist and devout Christian, prosecuted for heresy (non-trinitarianism) by none other than John Calvin himself.
Isaac Newton, who also rejected the Trinity, was very devout in his Christian beliefs, but kept his heretical views mostly to himself, thus avoiding prosecution by religious authorities in England. Servetus made the mistake of attending one of Calvin’s services in Geneva, where he was promptly arrested, put on trial and subsequently executed.
At least Galileo’s life was spared by the Pope.
Johanus: An aside. In debates with Muslim radicals at Hyde Park’s famous Speakers’ Corner in London – some of whom have gone on to plan and commit atrocities against their fellow citizens here – I was surprised by some being so clued up on the story of Servetus. I told the first guy who mentioned it I largely agreed with him. I later got the better of him on Mohammed and the Qurayza Jews. Happy days.
I agree it wasn’t Reformers like Calvin who opened up things. He, like Catholics of the time, but with more ruthless zeal, followed Augustine’s pernicious teaching on dissenters, misusing the phrase “compel them to come in” to distort a beautiful parable by Jesus. Instead, I’d look to the best of a group sometimes called the radical reformation, who were persecuted by both camps. In the early North American settlements, for example, the life of Quakers like Mary Baker Dyer, who paid the ultimate price for her freedom to interpret the scriptures according to conscience, at the hands of so-called Puritans, led to the philosophy of freedom from Roger Williams quoted by Zeke above. Not unimportant history. But it doesn’t tell us about those pesky CO2 emissions. 🙂
Reblogged this on gottadobetterthanthis and commented:
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Reblogging this from WUWT because Anthony has stood up as a Catholic on this. I’m standing with Anthony.
Hmmm… An article about what the Pope says without one reference to a Vatican document, or even a single quote from the Pope. Your quote source is a comment, or speculation from Investor’s Business Daily?