Newsbytes: Japan Stuns UN Climate Summit By Ditching CO2 Target

From Dr. Benny Peiser of the GWPF

Rich Nations Block Push To Count Past CO2 Emissions At UN Climate Summit

Japan set a new target for greenhouse gas emissions that critics say will set back United Nations talks for a treaty limiting fossil fuel emissions. The new target effectively reverses course from the goal set four years ago by allowing a 3.1 per cent increase in emissions from 1990 levels rather than seeking a 25 per cent cut. Bloomberg, 15 November 2013


Japan’s decision added to gloom at the Warsaw talks, where no major countries have announced more ambitious goals to cut emissions, despite warnings from scientists about the risks of more heatwaves, droughts, floods and rising sea levels. –Reuters, 15 November 2013

Slow-moving U.N. negotiations on fighting climate change can advance only if rich nations fulfill their promise to provide billions of dollars in finance to developing countries, China’s chief climate negotiator Su Wei said Thursday. He told reporters in Warsaw that developed nations should make good on pledges made in 2010 and immediately pay the promised $30 billion to help poor countries cope with the effects of climate change. Rich countries also need to clarify how they intend to scale that up to $100 billion per year by 2020, he said. “That would be a very important starting point and key to the successful conclusion of the negotiation of a (post-)2020 agreement,” said Su. Reuters, 14 November 2013

The U.S. and European Union blocked a proposal supported by 130 nations including Brazil and China that would use [CO2 emission] levels dating back to the industrial revolution to help set limits on emissions in the future. The proposal goes to the heart of one of the most divisive concepts in the talks — the notion of equity. Developing countries say that because industrialized nations have been emitting greenhouse gases for 200 years, they must bear the most responsibility to rein in the pollution blamed for global warming. Richer countries see a focus on the past as a tool by poorer nations to avoid making bigger efforts to curtail their own emissions. –Alex Morales, Bloomberg, 15 November 2013

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102 thoughts on “Newsbytes: Japan Stuns UN Climate Summit By Ditching CO2 Target

  1. It all was, after, all, said even by the top brass, a scheme to redistribute wealth.
    Maybe some are keener than others on this plan!
    The Russians want their money
    The Chinese threatened to release the hounds.
    India …

    Poland see through it.

    Better luck next time, Boys!

  2. When you’ve lost anime, you’ve lost the culture. When and if that happens, the Asian sphere will take a hard 180 on the topic. But not before.

  3. “Rich countries also need to clarify how they intend to scale that up to $100 billion per year by 2020, he said.”

    What’s a “rich country”.
    List of countries sorted by their public debt.

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2186rank.html?countryname=Germany&countrycode=gm&regionCode=eur&rank=28#gm

    So, the “developed” countries all drown in public debt. Hmm, the citizens might have some money. The countries don’t. So the UN can only be after the assets of private citizens.

    In that case, why would a German worker have to cough up money for the UN and a billionaire princeling in Beijing wouldn’t?

  4. “He told reporters in Warsaw that developed nations should make good on pledges made in 2010 and immediately pay the promised $30 billion to help poor countries cope with the effects of climate change. Rich countries also need to clarify how they intend to scale that up to $100 billion per year by 2020, he said. “That would be a very important starting point and key to the successful conclusion of the negotiation of a (post-)2020 agreement,” said Su. –Reuters, 14 November 2013″
    ———————————————
    Haha…yeah, put up or shut up!

  5. Japan set a new target for greenhouse gas emissions..
    ..only if rich nations fulfill their promise to provide billions of dollars in finance to developing countries, China’s chief climate negotiator Su Wei said Thursday

    …total disconnect from reality

    Japan is in the tank….and China is the rich polluter

  6. This is a fraud. Can you see the key word? Where are the mountains of peer reviewed papers showing “more heatwaves, droughts, floods and rising sea levels” over and above the last 100 years? Sea levels have been rising for thousands of years with no acceleration detected (unless by necessary upward adjustments).

    Japan’s decision added to gloom at the Warsaw talks, where no major countries have announced more ambitious goals to cut emissions, despite warnings from scientists about the risks of more heatwaves, droughts, floods and rising sea levels. –Reuters, 15 November 2013

  7. At least the UN wealth transfer agenda is now also starkly on the table in MSM. See my presage proof, Caribbean Water (especially the YouTube video link) posted months ago over at Judy Curry.

  8. Japan has an aging population. It’s co2 output will reduce automatically without targets. The rest of the world should follow this century without targets. Look at the details below and ask yourself why the heck Japan should worry about its co2 output? This is a self-solving ‘problem’ of the future.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/9999591/Japans-population-suffers-biggest-fall-in-history.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bdrates_of_Japan_since_1950.svg

    http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/intlr121&div=11&id=&page=

    Finally, if you care about human beings there are 2 things that are very important:
    1) INCREASE your co2 output.
    2) INCREASE the number of children per woman.
    It really is the truth. Warmists would laugh at what I have stated but they can’t show I am wrong (yet).

  9. 15 Nov: Tri-City Herald: AP: Monika Scislowska: Japan dials back climate change emissions target
    Climate activists following the talks in Warsaw named Japan “fossil of the day,” a dubious honor meant to tag a country blocking progress on combating climate change. Dressed up in dark suits to look like Cabinet ministers, the activists ate sushi over colleagues pretending to be victims of the typhoon that has killed thousands of people in the Philippines…

    http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2013/11/15/2677418/japan-dials-back-climate-change.html

    15 Nov: News Ltd: Nick Perry: Aus govt mocked by NGOs at climate summit
    AUSTRALIA has won its third “fossil of the day” award at the UN climate talks in Warsaw, as international environment groups attempt to embarrass the Abbott government on the world stage over its decision to scrap the carbon tax…
    It has won three of the four “fossil” awards handed out so far, with host nation Poland bagging one over its decision to hold a coal summit at the same time as the UN talks…

    http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/aus-govt-mocked-by-ngos-at-climate-summit/story-e6frfku9-1226761116478

  10. U.N. carbon prices plummet as EU readies restrictions
    LONDON, Nov 15 (Reuters) – Prices of U.N.-backed carbon credits from developed countries fell by more than half on Friday after the European Commission said it had determined how many will be eligible in its carbon market, the largest source of demand for the units…

    http://www.pointcarbon.com/news/reutersnews/1.2982063

    16 Nov: The Hindu: Draft text creates flutter at Warsaw climate meet
    A draft text of a ministerial decision on the controversial phasing out of refrigerant and global warming gases – hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs) – circulating in the negotiations stirred debate on late Friday night on how the talks would progress over the week …
    Now this text has emerged on Friday night sending the developing countries that are opposed to the move as well as about how contentious issues would be dealt with in the high-level segment scurrying for consultations…

    http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/energy-and-environment/draft-text-creates-flutter-at-warsaw-climate-meet/article5355952.ece

  11. When we look at our co2 output we should look at population projections too. The IPCC likes projections and so do I. We don’t need control – it’s already set in motion.

    YaleGlobal, 26 October 2011
    Global Population of 10 Billion by 2100? – Not So Fast
    With urbanization and education, global fertility rates could dip below replacement level by 2100
    ………………….
    The demographic patterns observed throughout Europe, East Asia and numerous other places during the past half century as well as the continuing decline in birth rates in other nations strongly points to one conclusion: The downward global trend in fertility may likely converge to below-replacement levels during this century. The implications of such a change in the assumptions regarding future fertility, affecting as it will consumption of food and energy, would be far reaching for climate change, biodiversity, the environment, water supplies and international migration. Most notably, the world population could peak sooner and begin declining well below the 10 billion currently projected for the close of the 21st century.

    Joseph Chamie, former director of the United Nations Population Division,
    is research director at the Center for Migration Studies.

    http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/global-population-10-billion-not-so-fast

    The Breakthrough Institute – May 8, 2013 – Martin Lewis
    “In a recent exercise, most of my students believed that India’s total fertility rate (TFR) was twice that of the United States. Many of my colleagues believed the same. In actuality, it is only 2.5, barely above the estimated U.S. rate of 2.1 in 2011, and essentially the replacement level. (A more recent study now pegs U.S. fertility at 1.93.)…..

    …In today’s world, high fertility rates are increasingly confined to tropical Africa…..

    …fertility rates are persistently declining in almost every country in Africa, albeit slowly. Many African states, moreover, are still sparsely settled and can accommodate significantly larger populations. The Central African Republic, for example, has a population of less than 4.5 million in an area almost the size of France……

    …As it turns out, the map of female literacy in India does exhibit striking similarities with the map of fertility. States with educated women, such as Kerala and Goa, have smaller families than those with widespread female illiteracy,…..

    …Thus while the education of women is no doubt significant in reducing fertility levels, it is not the only factor at play……

    That television viewing would help generate demographic stabilization would have come as a shock to those who warned of the ticking global population bomb in the 1960s…..

    To return to our first map, fertility rates remain stubbornly high across tropical Africa. The analysis presented here would suggest that the best way to bring them down would be a three-pronged effort: female education, broad-based economic and social development, and mass electrification followed by the dissemination of soap-opera-heavy television……”

    http://thebreakthrough.org/index.php/programs/conservation-and-development/population-bomb-so-wrong/

    http://geocurrents.info/population-geography/indias-plummeting-birthrate-a-television-induced-transformation

    http://geocurrents.info/cultural-geography/television-and-fertility-in-india-response-to-critics

  12. It’s been ongoing for quite a while but notice how the former CO2 aka “carbon emissions” have now morphed into the more emotive word “pollution” as a descriptive in the CAGW terminology..

    Gross ignorance is being exhibited in it’s most extreme form by a whole galaxy of utter incompetents in science and who are exhibiting gross intellectual dishonesty when they call CO2 ie Carbon Dioxide, a critical to all life particularly plant life, atmospheric gas , “pollution”.

  13. Canada is a leader in the fight against the U.N. ‘global tax and governance’ objective at the core of enviroscocialism. Russia, Japan and now Australia have joined Canada, while the devolving countries in the European Union dive headlong into enviroscocialist bankruptcy.

  14. “Developing countries say that because industrialized nations have been emitting greenhouse gases for 200 years, they must bear the most responsibility to rein in the pollution blamed for global warming.”

    I guess the benefits of those 200 years of discoveries, science, industrial benefits and sacrifices taken by these “industrialized” societies to get where we are today as a world society have completely bypassed China, India, Brazil and the other. Some of these so called “developing countries” now have the nerve, instead of being thankful for the Western scientific and engineering contribution, much of which they largely copied and continue to do so, to blackmail. I suppose the reason for the blackmail is to eliminate many sources of economic competition from the West and in the meantime bring a few freebies (mainly for those already in power in those countries).

  15. Warmists don’t want you to know that fertility rates around the world are falling fast (except for Africa – though still falling.) They want you to think that human population will continue to expand until the Earth is dead. Take a closer look and you will see that WE will be extinct sooner than we previously thought! Over population is the least of our problems, we just don’t know it yet. PS the fertility rate of Singapore is a whopping at 0.78. More wealth generally means fewer kids.

    http://www.theglobalmail.org/feature/what-happens-when-half-the-world-stops-making-babies/573/

    http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/01/world_population_may_actually_start_declining_not_exploding.html

  16. The comments of the Chinese delegation are predictable, but really: does he think anyone is that stupid? Sure, liberals in the U.S. of A. will promise the moon, the stars, their countrymen’s tax-dollars, but their own? Things are quite a bit different than 2010, when it was fashionable to believe their own lies about the “economic recovery” (sure, I believe in the Easter Bunny, too). They’re not going to turn over a dime with more sequestration and gov’t shutdowns hanging over their heads: if gov’t is shuttered, how will they steal anything?

    But the shock over Japan… I mean, really!? When they started to shut down nuclear plants in a knee-jerk reaction to a rare disaster, however horrible, what is left, but to burn? Fossil fuels, that is? Hello, we ain’t gonna meet Jo stinkin’ Kyoto Accord levels now, are we? And this is a surprise?

    To effin’ who!??

  17. “It all was, after, all, said even by the top brass, a scheme to redistribute wealth.”

    The radical left in the 70s and 80s made a great deal of fuss about the Ritch North-poor South problem. But after the wall came down it vanished and instead it was rewrapped in new climate problem solutions.

  18. The industrial revolution has brought huge benefits to humanity including better health and prosperity.

    If the developing nations want to see the industrial revolution as a purely negative event it is only fair that they should live in pre industrial circumstances and not have the benefits it brought. You can’t have it both ways.

    tonyb

  19. DirkH says:
    November 15, 2013 at 3:17 pm
    …List of countries sorted by their public debt.

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2186rank.html?countryname=Germany&countrycode=gm&regionCode=eur&rank=28#gm

    +++++++++++
    Thank you for the post. I find it difficult to nail down the actual debt to gdp ratio. We have 17.15T in debt, and our GDP is 15.97T. The actual calculation comes to a bit over 107% when I do it.

    Anyone here know how the number is supposed to be calculated?

  20. thisisnotgoodtogo says (November 15, 2013 at 3:14 pm): “The Russians want their money”

    Actually, they want our money.

    It’s like a whole damn country of Obamas!

  21. Mario Lento says:
    November 15, 2013 at 4:20 pm
    “Thank you for the post. I find it difficult to nail down the actual debt to gdp ratio. We have 17.15T in debt, and our GDP is 15.97T. The actual calculation comes to a bit over 107% when I do it.

    Anyone here know how the number is supposed to be calculated?”

    Go to

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html

    into “economy”and “public debt”; where you find the remark
    “if data for intra-government debt were added, “Gross Debt” would increase by about one-third of GDP “

  22. Japan’s statement was a direct result of the closing of nuclear power stations following the Fukushima disaster, which had been supplying 30% of their power. This is not a rejection of climate science, but an unfortunate consequence of a natural disaster coupled with a failed nuclear safety policy.

  23. J. Philip Peterson says:
    November 15, 2013 at 4:04 pm

    The smarter nations are beginning to wise up. Let’s see who’s next.
    ______________________
    Won’t be US. Our statist/progressive administration is doubling down.

  24. At a certain level of nations opting out, support will collapse. Not too many will wish to kick the can when “developed” nations refuse. Hopefully the conference ends in total disarray and collapse. Hopefully, with nations refusing to be sucked in to the green abyss they will start to think deeper in to the motives behind the cAGW scam.

  25. Remember this?

    “China and India are among a handful of countries threatening to release a “time bomb” of “super greenhouse gases” that will cause global rates to skyrocket, a new report warns.

    The report, by the Environmental Investigation Agency (EIA), a nonprofit group based in Washington D.C. and London, warns that EIA investigators have found that China and India are already planning to release the gas HFC-23, which is a by-product created in the production of a chemical (HCFC-22) primarily used in air conditioning and refrigeration.

    To give you an idea of how potentially damaging this could be, the EIA estimates that HFC-23 is around 14,800 times more damaging to the climate than carbon dioxide.

    “Chinese and Indian companies are holding the world hostage by threatening to set off a climate bomb if they don’t receive millions of dollars for the destruction of the HFC-23 that they are producing,” said Mark W. Roberts, EIA’s International Policy Advisor.

    This is in part due to a recent change to the trade of so-called emission and carbon credits.

    Read more: http://www.care2.com/causes/china-and-india-threaten-super-greenhouse-gas-time-bomb.html#ixzz2klaPeJH4
    Go ahead China, sue, Su.

  26. Alan Robertson says:
    November 15, 2013 at 4:44 pm
    “Won’t be US” and I am afraid you are right. When did the US stop being a smart nation?
    We were pretty smart in the 50′s and maybe 60′s.

  27. 15 Nov: UK Financial Times: Japan in greenhouse gas emissions U-turn
    By Jonathan Soble in Tokyo and Jan Cienski in Warsaw
    In a poll published on Tuesday by the Asahi (Japan) newspaper, 60 per cent of respondents said they supported abandoning nuclear power altogether, against 25 per cent who favoured the technology’s continued use…
    Even if the target is revised, the 2009 goal is almost certain to remain out of reach, since many reactors are too old or too close to Fukushima to be restarted. The most ardent supporters of nuclear power say that at most half of Japan’s facilities will be used again…

    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/20dfeda0-4dc1-11e3-8fa5-00144feabdc0.html

  28. thisisnotgoodtogo says:
    November 15, 2013 at 5:10 pm
    “The report, by the Environmental Investigation Agency (EIA), a nonprofit group based in Washington D.C. and London,”

    So who are these clowns?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_Investigation_Agency

    “The Environmental Investigation Agency (EIA) is an NGO founded in 1984 by Dave Currey, Jennifer Lonsdale and Allan Thornton, three environmental activists in the United Kingdom.”
    ” “EIA’s track record of investigative work, scientific documentation, and representation at international conventions has earned EIA a reputation for highly effective and successful campaigning. EIA continues to share these skills with local groups and government officials to help empower them in the fight against environmental crime.”
    - The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency 2007″
    “EIA is a highly-respected, hard-hitting, dirt-digging organisation”.
    - BBC Wildlife Magazine”

    ROTFLMAO! Hey, Fabians, maybe you should cover up your traces a little better. Hint, don’t be so blatant in your bolshevikipedia.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegelian_dialectic

  29. “If the developing nations want to see the industrial revolution as a purely negative event it is only fair that they should live in pre industrial circumstances and not have the benefits it brought. You can’t have it both ways.

    tonyb”
    —————————————–
    Tony, it’s what’s known as an ambit claim – i.e. one where you hope to get a good outcome by starting from a ridiculous proposition and then pretending to be reluctantly beaten down to something more moderate. Very common in trade union negotiations, as well as commercial ones.

    It’s surprisingly successful as a tactic, because the egotists on the other side think that they have “won” by only conceding a small part of what was asked for.

    In reality, of course, they should have conceded nothing – as you point out.

  30. DirkH says:
    November 15, 2013 at 4:41 pm
    Go to

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html

    into “economy”and “public debt”; where you find the remark
    “if data for intra-government debt were added, “Gross Debt” would increase by about one-third of GDP “
    ++++++++++++
    Thank you! I’ve always thought the number that makes most sense is to compare actual debt to actual GDP when talking about debt to gdp ratios. Your search and explanation helps me get over this. So again, thank you.

  31. “To give you an idea of how potentially damaging this could be, the EIA estimates that HFC-23 is around 14,800 times more damaging to the climate than carbon dioxide.”
    ——————————————————
    Around 14,800 times more damaging to the climate? What does that even mean?

    Junk science rools OK.

  32. CO2 has little to do with any of this. China wants the west to pony up its billions into Third World development funds. In turn these countries will use the credit to buy up Chinese goods and services. It’s been happily feasting off western economic insanity for over a decade now. Why are German solar companies going bankrupt left and right? Because China’s supplying panels at much lower cost, at least it was until the renewable FITs were cut.

    Kyoto has never been about CO2 reduction as its principal goal. That was merely the means to an end, which was and is a fundamental realignment of world trade patterns. And the author of all this lunacy? “Uncle Mo” Strong? He’s still hiding out in Beijing, afraid, lest he go anywhere else, one of several thousand subpoenas will drop on him over Oil for Food scandals.

  33. johanna says:
    November 15, 2013 at 5:33 pm
    “To give you an idea of how potentially damaging this could be, the EIA estimates that HFC-23 is around 14,800 times more damaging to the climate than carbon dioxide.”
    ——————————————————
    Around 14,800 times more damaging to the climate? What does that even mean?

    Junk science rools OK.
    ++++++++++++
    I think you nailed it! But, just my 2 cents. Change the word damaging to affect. Have 14,800 times the affect than something that is very beneficial might also be interpreted as EXTREMELY beneficial. But that makes no sense if indeed HFC-23 is bad substance. OK – back to the same conclusion – JUNK science rules!

  34. BCbrowser says November 15, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    I guess the benefits of those 200 years of discoveries, science, industrial benefits and sacrifices taken by these “industrialized” societies …

    Back bill* them for it, plus interest.

    Meanwhile, send the Chinese a DVD collection of Burke’s work titled: “Connections” or point them to:

    * “back charge” – http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/back-charge.asp

    .

  35. Mario, leaving aside the absurd use of “damaging”, the point is that they make the ridiculous assertion that 14,800 times an input has 14,800 times the effect. Not that they can tell us what the effect is.

    I’m guessing that these people have never mastered basic cookery, let alone maths or physics. If I put 14,800 pinches of salt into a cakemix, it doesn’t make it 14,800 times worse.

    You don’t need a PhD in anything to see what a load of cobblers this is.

  36. Insurance Industry has been on the phone to David Cameron. no-shame-Cameron!

    16 Nov: UK Guardian: Cameron links typhoon Haiyan to climate change
    Prime minister seemingly endorses stance that global warming is creating more extreme weather patterns
    Rowena Mason in Colombo, and Damian Carrington
    Asked on Friday whether climate change was linked to the Philippines disaster, Cameron said: “I’ll leave the scientists to speak for themselves about the link between severe weather events and climate change. But the evidence seems to me to be growing. As a practical politician, I think the sensible thing is to say let’s take preventative and mitigating steps given the chances this might be the case.”…
    Cameron’s comments come after Ed Davey, energy secretary, said it was possible that rising sea levels caused by global warming may have made some islands more vulnerable and made storms more intense.
    However, Lord Lawson, a former Tory chancellor and leading figure in the party’s climate sceptic lobby, claimed on Thursday that there was absolutely no link between Haiyan and global warming…
    ***In comments appeared designed to appeal to sceptics in his party, Cameron made the case that Britain should tackle climate change as an “insurance policy”.
    “There is no doubt there have been an increasing number of severe weather events in recent years,” he said. “And I’m not a scientist but it’s always seemed to me one of the strongest arguments about climate change is, even if you’re only 90% certain or 80% certain or 70% certain, if I said to you there’s a 60% chance your house might burn down, do you want to take out some insurance – you take out some insurance. I think we should think about climate change like that.”…

    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/nov/16/david-cameron-climate-change-typhoon-haiyan

    15 Nov: UK Guardian: Japan under fire for scaling back plans to cut greenhouse gases
    UN climate talks in Warsaw face setback as U-turn on emissions angers developing countries in shadow of typhoon Haiyan
    by John Vidal in Warsaw and Terry Macalister
    The UN climate talks in Warsaw, Poland, were faced with a new crisis on Friday, after Japan, the world’s fifth largest greenhouse gas emitter, slashed its plans to reduce emissions from 25% to just 3.8% on 2005 figures…
    Britain’s energy and climate change secretary, Ed Davey, called the decision “deeply disappointing” and at odds with the need to tackle global warming.
    He was still hopeful that the UK and other members of the G8 leading economies could encourage Tokyo to change its mind.
    “It is deeply disappointing that the Japanese government has taken this decision to significantly revise down its 2020 emissions target. This announcement runs counter to the broader political commitment to tackle climate change, recently reaffirmed by G8, as well as the enhanced ambition we have seen from the world’s major emitters,” he argued in unusually robust terms.
    “Yet I believe we can persuade Japan to change her mind again, to resume her leadership role in the world on climate change. Despite the challenges, if the public backs the government it can invest in low carbon electricity,” he added…
    ***The aid package is thought to include supplying developing countries with “green” technologies developed by Japanese firms, including offshore wind turbines, fuel-cell vehicles and high-tech housing insulation. No figures were given on the scale of the emission cuts that the package might achieve…

    http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/nov/15/japan-scaling-back-cut-greenhouse-gases

  37. Japan’s electrical generation capacity is diminished because of their shutdown of all their nuclear reactors. China is building coal fired plants. Australia is giving their alarmist bureaucrats the boot. Their economy is in the dump, their currency is crashing. Japan needs to burn some coal to compete. Period, I love saying “period” like that.

  38. The best way to reduce pollution (real pollution not CO2) is more wealth, but there can be few worse ways to increase wealth than just giving poor countries money.

  39. ‘To give you an idea of how potentially damaging this could be, the EIA estimates that HFC-23 is around 14,800 times more damaging to the climate than carbon dioxide.’

    I think we need to use the atom or hydrogen bomb metric in comparing HFC-23 to CO2. Just how many more atom bombs is HFC-23 equivalent to compared to caaarbonnn? A thousand? A million? The public needs to know,

  40. It ain’t over till General Electric says its over.
    I mean GE is running the show, right ?
    Or did they bail out ?

  41. “Japan’s decision added to gloom at the Warsaw talks…”
    I doubt if the weather is any better in Murmansk.

  42. Therefor between now and the Nov. 2014 vote in the U.S. , Pres. Obama and the Democrats are going to double down with the EPA rules, push the CO2 scare, sell wind mills, push China’s solar panels, demand more corn to be made in to fuel and thus give an opening to the sane people to make the case to the U.S. voters.

    Just may be that Obama is not so good at avoiding ambushes he sets for himself.

    I can tell all that ambushes are not a good thing at all.

  43. These people at COP are in total-disconnect mode, pushing the extreme weather-climate change link as if it were fact. This is basically lying to achieve their ends, with a healthy dollop of projected guilt. What a goddamn circus.

  44. After Fukishima Japan has been trying to cut their dependence on nuclear power. They have to either break the CO2 target or have their economy grind to a halt … er … further to a halt.

  45. Jimbo says:
    November 15, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    You’re still using inflated population figures. D/L the actual UN Population Survey spreadsheet, and note it has 3 pages. Instead of the Medium, look at the Low Band projections. They’re the only ones ever even close to accurate. They project peak at ~8bn in 30 years, declining indefinitely (permanently?) thereafter. De-pop will be the real “crisis”.

  46. Japan has reached the limit of deficit spending and ‘quantitative’ easing (printing money). The current US administration and the EU are trying their best to catch up with the Japanese. Politics changes when there is massive unemployment, a currency crisis, and forced balanced budgets.

    The EU CO2 emissions are dropping due to massive loss of jobs to Asia. The EU is entering their next recession.

    There is a race; will the CAWG madness be ended by forced balanced budgets or global cooling? Perhaps both?

  47. As enviros are want to tell us: The Earth is sick; humanity is a cancer upon this planet. So I think we should change the name of the Kyoto protocol to the International Earth Health Care Act or maybe the International Earth Health Care Plan. Now, we certainly wouldn’t want to call it the Affordable Earth Health Care Act or ACA … oops, AECA … because everybody knows there is about as much chance of the scam … oops, scheme … being affordable as there is of a wicker basket surviving a supersonic plunge into hell. Now, to get all nations on board with the Earth Health Care Plan we can endlessly repeat that, ‘if you don’t like your Earth Health Care Plan you don’t have to keep your Earth Health Care Plan.’ Sounds a little bit as if Japan has had the sense to do that.

  48. Japanese people have had a lot to do with the Govt decision. btw they weren’t impressed by this move earlier in the week :

    12 Nov: Japan Times: JIJI: Plan to lower radiation readings OK’d
    To facilitate the return of evacuees, the Nuclear Regulation Authority has approved a change in the way radiation doses are monitored around the crippled Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power station that will effectively result in lower readings, but observers warn this could raise public mistrust.
    The change calls for basing monitoring on data from dosimeters held by individual residents.
    It was proposed by the regulatory commission’s secretariat at its meeting Monday and gained broad-based consensus…
    The new method is expected to help promote the return of evacuees as well as reduce costs for decontaminating areas tainted by radioactive fallout from the Tokyo Electric Power Co. plant.
    But a change in the monitoring method could heighten local residents’ mistrust of the government, observers said…
    Decontamination costs are estimated at Yen2.53 trillion to Yen5.13 trillion in Fukushima Prefecture, excluding radioactive waste disposal
    In the city of Fukushima, Ichiro Kowata, 77, an evacuee from Iitate, called for the government to more fully explain the proposed method change. “Younger people say they can’t trust statements that suddenly declare areas to be safe when they have been called dangerous until now,” he said.

    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/11/12/national/plan-to-lower-radiation-readings-okd/

  49. People who are dismayed by Japan’s statement should really read Nigel Lawsons “Appeal to Reason : A Cool Look At Global Warming”. There is this wonderful part towards the the end where he basically states that there is no technical, economic or political mechanism to put in place what is required – the de-industrialisation of the west. Anyone who thinks there is “doesn’t need to worry about saving this planet ….. they are already living on a different one”. The move by Japan just illustrates this reality. There is absolutely no point putting in place targets and making ‘commitments’ if there is no mechanism to make them happen.

    It can’t have been a very good summit in Warsaw …..lets look at the facts. Japan reneges on previous commitments, Australia moves to scrap carbon tax and doesn’t even turn up – which Canada applauds, 50,000 Poles demonstrate against environmentalism, coal conference next door, US blocks wealth re-distribution plan, Europe wrings hands in angst as it looks into the black hole of impoverishment and global irrelevance. Oh yes, and meanwhile we are now in 17th year of no global warming, ironically almost exactly the same number of years these stupid conferences have been taking place. Its over folks.

  50. johanna says:
    November 15, 2013 at 6:01 pm
    Mario, leaving aside the absurd use of “damaging”, the point is that they make the ridiculous assertion that 14,800 times an input has 14,800 times the effect.
    +++++++++++++
    Johanna: We’re on the same side. I am sickened when people use the term CO2 as a demonized certainty –as if it were in fact damaging. That they ignor what we do know about CO2, that it is without a doubt a precious molecule (which is short supply), and without which there is no life at all.
    Mario

  51. I live in Japan and I can report first hand that a majority of the ordinary Japanese I know are in favor of abandoning nuclear power. The main reason for this stance is fear of radioactive contamination which has been hyped in the media in the wake of the Fukushima Daiichi disaster. Former Prime Minister Koizumi has been advocating this policy publicly recently, suggesting that greater energy saving and efficiency is the way to go. Form Prime Minister Kan, who was in charge at the time of the Great East Japan Earthquake and Tsunami, also advocates Japan ending its reliance on nuclear power.

    Most of Japan’s 50 or so remaining reactors are currently offline and fossil fuel-powered generation is taking up the slack. That means higher CO2 emissions, of course, but more importantly it means that the electricity generating industry is running at a loss and so fuel bills are on the rise. Also, as these corporations are not operating in the black, they are not paying local taxes. When the various cost increases go ahead and the knock-on effects work their way through the economic system, I suspect the anti-nuclear sentiment will soften, but in the present “climate of fear”, the government and the utilities are in no mood to directly challenge “the will of the people”.

    Given this situation, fossil fuel consumption is expected to remain higher in Japan for some years yet, regardless of any modest future progress in reducing energy consumption brought about through energy efficiency and negative population growth. I think the recent decision to revise the CO2 emissions target upwards is simply a reflection of that reality. People in Japan are facing a choice between three—consume more fossil fuels, consume more nuclear power, or endure a lower standard of living. Set beside this choice, the “need” to reduce CO2 emissions simply isn’t an issue.

  52. johanna says:
    November 15, 2013 at 5:33 pm
    “To give you an idea of how potentially damaging this could be, the EIA estimates that HFC-23 is around 14,800 times more damaging to the climate than carbon dioxide.”
    ——————————————————
    Around 14,800 times more damaging to the climate? What does that even mean?

    =========================
    CO2 damage to climate = 0.

    14,800 * 0 = 0

  53. ImranCan says:
    November 15, 2013 at 8:44 pm

    “it’s over folks”

    It is. Except that it keeps going like some kind of perverted energizer bunny.

  54. “China’s chief climate negotiator Su Wei said … that developed nations should … immediately pay the promised $30 billion”.

    Foreign Aid – That’s what poor people in rich countries pay to the rich people in poor countries – Joseph Luns in Der Spiegel, 1969.

  55. “Eve says:

    November 15, 2013 at 3:19 pm”

    Although Abbott here in Australia took the repealing of the price on carbon to an election, and won, he still has to get that legislation through both houses (I don’t see any action on that much before July next year, but who knows, with the indications out of the latest climate change gab fest in Poland favourable, Abbott might be able to push though the legislation sooner, but there is still no guarantee of success). Regardless, the price on carbon is still in place, now at AU$24.15/tonne CO2 since July, with 10% of that revenue going to the UN (Thanks Combet). The estimated revenue raised in the first year, from July 2012, was AU$8billion (AU$800mil, maybe that’s the price Australia had to pay to get that temporary seat on the UN security council).

    I also don’t get the distinction between “rich” countries and “poor” countries. It’s all relative. I am in no way rich with 30%-40% of my income extracted, directly or indirectly, by taxes/levies in one form or other (Income tax, medicare levy which was raised to pay for the flood recovery in Queensland, GST etc) but I would seem to be richer than someone in similar employment in say Kenya, Africa. Note that the two countries with the most number of millionaires/billionaires are India and China.

  56. This is interesting. The wily developing countries are asking that the CO2 emissions for each country to be calculated as the accumulated total from 1850 to present. As the US, UK, and Germany developed early they would need to make greater cuts to compensate for past sins and they will need to send more money to developed countries to waste on green scams.

    U.S., EU, Reject Brazilian Call for Climate Equity Metric http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-11-14/rich-nations-block-push-to-count-past-pollution-at-warming-talks Under the measure first proposed by Brazil, the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change would devise a methodology for nations to calculate their total output of greenhouse gases since 1850 to determine their historical responsibility for global warming. This would help inform their own pledges for reducing future emissions.

    The proposal to use historical emissions as a guide isn’t going to go away, according to Jennifer Morgan, director of Climate at the World Resources Institute, a Washington-based research group monitoring the talks. “It’s an indication of the level of importance given to the issue of equity,” Morgan said in an interview in Warsaw. “The countries who have emitted the least are the most vulnerable to climate change, like the Philippines. They haven’t done anything, and they’re suffering from the emissions that others produce.”

    Measurement Program
    Under the measure first proposed by Brazil, the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change would devise a methodology for nations to calculate their total output of greenhouse gases since 1850 to determine their historical responsibility for global warming. This would help inform their own pledges for reducing future emissions.

  57. @Magicjava

    CO2 damage to climate = 0.
    14,800 * 0 = 0
    +++++++++++

    Perzactly! It is like saying, “The storm was caused/made worse by global warming,” when there hasn’t been any warming.

    Worse x 0 = 0
    Storms x Temperature increase of 0 = 0 worseness
    Hurricanes x no statistical increase in temperature = no statistically worse hurricanes

  58. I still find the information displayed in Gapminder World enlightening. The URL is long so go to http://www.gapminder.org/ and see the wealth and health of nations improve from the beginning of the Industrial Revolution.
    Karl Marx would have observed the UK workforce (which would have been the majority) and the conditions they were in. It seems worse than ironic that the descendants of the many generations of that workforce (still the majority) are now at fault for acquiring wealth, ignoring the fact that they worked hard for it and earned every penny they worked for.
    To add insult to injury it seems we in the UK are at fault for exporting pollution by buying goods from so called 3rd world economies like China and India (China has a Maglev train and India is sending a rocket to Mars, and the UK?). If we must pay for exporting pollution then we must be in credit for all the years other countries exported their pollution to the industrialised world.

  59. ..only if rich nations fulfill their promise to provide billions of dollars in finance to developing countries, China’s chief climate negotiator Su Wei said Thursday

    Perhaps Mr Su has a notion those developing countries would spend their new found billions of dollars on cheap TV’s and AK47′s? Personally I think the billions would more likely be spent in their countries of origin. If a government sends hideously over-priced, locally made, whacky green gizmos instead of hard cash, one spending can be counted as green, foreign aid, local infrastructure investment and UN funding all at the same time.

  60. Tada,
    I have never voted for Japan’s LDP (the current party which supports Mr. Abe), but I agree with the Abe cabinet’s energy plan which includes policy on CO2 emissions and running nuclear power plants as soon as possible. I am relieved to find that our government is not affected by moody propaganda.(Although the fact that Japan spends a lot on renewables is my concern)

  61. Mark Urbo says:
    November 15, 2013 at 6:11 pm
    “What’s a little Co2 when you’re openly leaking radiation into the environment…”

    You do know that the environment *is* radioactive?

  62. cgh says:
    November 15, 2013 at 5:45 pm
    “Kyoto has never been about CO2 reduction as its principal goal. That was merely the means to an end, which was and is a fundamental realignment of world trade patterns. And the author of all this lunacy? “Uncle Mo” Strong?”

    Kyoto was designed entirely by the German Bundestag; for very Realpolitikal reasons.

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/secret-history-climate-alarmism?page=1

    It was designed in such a way that Germany didn’t need to do a thing except for closing down obsolete DDR industries. Which we already had.

  63. Stephen Skinner says:
    November 16, 2013 at 1:44 am
    “Karl Marx would have observed the UK workforce (which would have been the majority) and the conditions they were in. It seems worse than ironic that the descendants of the many generations of that workforce (still the majority) are now at fault for acquiring wealth, ignoring the fact that they worked hard for it and earned every penny they worked for.”

    Karl Marx’ goal was not to ensure that the workers can keep what they have worked for -even though he used that argument as the starting point-, but the creation of the socialist men by means of selection (the class struggle or Klassenkampf). The hypothetical socialist man shares everything. From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.

    If you will, the “irony” is already in Marx’ own twisted wretched thoughts.

  64. Unfortunately the Japanese volte-face is the triumph of one irrational idea — nuclear is dangerous — over another — fossil fuels are dangerous. That is, the replacement of one paranoia by a larger one. Small comfort for the forces of reason.

    [Cross-posted at Bishop Hill.]

  65. “Mark Urbo says:

    November 15, 2013 at 6:11 pm

    What’s a little Co2 when you’re openly leaking radiation into the environment…”

    Don’t visit Cornwall, UK. All that radiation “leaking into the environment”, completely natural, breaches internationaly safety levels.

  66. Mark Urbo says:

    November 15, 2013 at 6:11 pm
    What’s a little Co2 when you’re openly leaking radiation into the environment…

    http://enenews.com/

    True, but would you deny Japan’s access to CO2-generating energy or would you demand that they build more radiation-generating nuclear plants?

    It’s one or the other. So the choice is clear.

    Besides, all the “plants” wold-wide will love ‘em!

  67. All countries abandoning nuclear would have been better off making a highly publicized “comprehensive safety review”, and got rid of the plants that are potential hazards. And yes, as a nuclear supporter I recognize that there are far too many of those. Fukushima was a textbook case, and yet, as an example of old-school reactor design it still managed exceptionally well. The containment vessels…. contained. The odds were stacked against it, and it still managed to not become the worst case.

    Chernobyl, of course, was the worst case. But what idiot deliberately blows up a graphite moderated reactor? Then again, what country would still be building a graphite moderated reactor in 1986? Oh yeah… the soviet union.

    Three Mile Island was all hype. The China Syndrome, although fictional, lives on in the minds of that entire generation who somehow think that all reactors are just lying around waiting to meltdown.

    And yes, more people died at the refinery a few miles from Fukushima than have died from all nuclear accidents combined. Sadly, it’s difficult to explain to anyone that the “excess cancers” don’t actually exist.

  68. CodeTech says:
    November 16, 2013 at 7:16 am
    “Chernobyl, of course, was the worst case. But what idiot deliberately blows up a graphite moderated reactor? Then again, what country would still be building a graphite moderated reactor in 1986?”

    and without a containment. They blew the roof off the reactor, and that was the only thing that separated the core from the outside.

  69. “…. despite warnings from scientists about the risks of more heatwaves, droughts, floods and rising sea levels.”

    Japan, like other sensible Countries,has decided to NOT destroy their economy to satisfy the AGW/CC scammers who are getting SO rich off of this fear-mongering. Now if we can only see some of these crroks jailed for their thievery….

  70. So the IPCC wants to push the CO2 levels back to pre-industrial levels??? It was the period of the pre-industrial levels which caused the Little Ice Age (Maunder Minimum). Do we really want to experience another Maunder Minimum???

  71. No, they seem to be talking about the rich countries with near balanced budgets and little debt like Saudi Arabia, Russia, Oman, Libya, Nigeria, Kuwait, Peru, Angola, Bulgaria, Cameroon, Botswana, Uzbekistan, Algeria, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Kazakhstan, Chile, Equatorial Guinea, Gibraltar, Azerbaijan, Estonia, Wallis and Futuna, Kosovo, Liberia…. those rich countries.

  72. I always feel much better after I’ve been shown the environmental light by someone from China.

    Are people still dropping dead from the air pollution on the streets of Beijing today?

    The UN is so completely pathetic.

  73. johanna says:
    November 16, 2013 at 12:15 pm
    Nobody is dropping dead from air pollution in the streets of Beijing.

    Get a grip.

    No but a recent report claimed that cancers were up in Beijing

  74. Apparently this years’ CO2 gabfest is called a conference, while next years’, which will be in Sept., in New York will be a summit.
    “It is aimed at catalyzing action by governments, business, finance, industry, and civil society in areas for new commitments and substantial, scalable and replicable contributions to the Summit that will help the world shift toward a low-carbon economy.”
    The grand finale will be the UNFCCC in 2015, the ultimate goal of which will be a giant shakedown of the West. Their goals are lofty, to be sure.

  75. Two points:

    1) Early results from the Japanese Space Agency IBUKI satellite have not been widely publicized, but they seem to show that the northern industrial nations are net sinks of CO2 during the summer months. While the implications of these findings may be lost on the rest of the world, thanks to the controlled MSM, they are certainly well-known to the Japanese leadership.

    2) Three Fukushima coriums are missing in action. Perhaps one or more of the outspoken nuclear power advocates here will have suggestions for their safe retrieval.

  76. Jquip says:
    November 15, 2013 at 3:15 pm
    When you’ve lost anime, you’ve lost the culture. When and if that happens, the Asian sphere will take a hard 180 on the topic. But not before.

    That is already happening. This spring there was an anime where a mermaid mentioned in passing that she doesn’t believe in global warming because “Climate changes all the time, ya know?”

    http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/preview-guide/2013/the-spring-anime/bamboo

  77. I’m puzzled by the Chinese negotiator’s comments. Someone needs to explain to me how sending money taken from poor people in a wealthy nation and sending it to the Swiss bank accounts of the dictators and tyrants ruling third world countries will somehow “save the planet”.

  78. The whole idealogy behind the AGW cult is now there for all to see..

    Whilst the smart industries are busy preparing for the oncoming continuation and acceleration of the cooling, the whole wealth redistribution scheme is on show, with China showing its true colors.

    Japan wont be the last I can assure to thumb their nose to the UN.

    Its an imaginary problem that lines the pockets of select few.

  79. johanna says:
    November 16, 2013 at 12:15 pm
    Nobody is dropping dead from air pollution in the streets of Beijing.

    Get a grip.
    —————
    Stephen richards says:
    November 16, 2013 at 12:59 pm
    No but a recent report claimed that cancers were up in Beijing”
    ———————————————————
    If that comment wasn’t satirical, it ought to be.

  80. “Anyone here know how the number is supposed to be calculated?”

    Usually politicians don’t want to talk about actual debt to gdp. They want to talk about INTEREST PAYMENTS ON THE DEBT to GDP.

    It’s still rather sickening how many tax dollars are utterly wasted in interest payments because politicians want to buy votes on the government credit card.

  81. – “I’m puzzled by the Chinese negotiator’s comments. Someone needs to explain to me how sending money taken from poor people in a wealthy nation and sending it to the Swiss bank accounts of the dictators and tyrants ruling third world countries will somehow “save the planet”.”

    Sending billions of dollars that the US doesn’t have to the third world means that the USA will have to borrow more money for its own needs… from china. China reaps the benefits of western stupidity.

  82. Actually China was the first country to mine coal on a large scale, during the Sung dynasty (11th Century AD) and it has been going on ever since. Even though it was a fairly small scale activity compared to modern mining a thousand years of production will add up.
    Here is an inage of a Ming dynasty coal mine:

  83. CFACT (Craig Rucker) reports on the demonstration by 50,000 Poles in Warsaw protesting the UN climate conference and declaring their support for Poland’s intention to use its abundant coal reserves for 100 percent of the nation’s electric power generation.

    Methinks we need similar demonstrations here, in front of the offices of the EPA and the White House, against the war on coal and most of all, against the pseudo-science of global warming.

  84. The one thing that never gets discussed is who decides what constitutes a “developed country”.

    China’s industrial output can be found around the world. Their defense forces are a match for any “superpower”.

    China and India don’t want to get labeled as a developed counry – they’d lose all that “support”, and actually have to follow global rules.

  85. kcrucible says:
    November 17, 2013 at 5:19 am
    “Anyone here know how the number is supposed to be calculated?”

    Usually politicians don’t want to talk about actual debt to gdp. They want to talk about INTEREST PAYMENTS ON THE DEBT to GDP.

    It’s still rather sickening how many tax dollars are utterly wasted in interest payments because politicians want to buy votes on the government credit card.
    ++++++++++++
    It’s even worse, because eventually, the interest rate on the debt will go up. When interest rates are closer to normal (like 6%) and the debt is around 20Trillion (like it will be before 2016), the interest on our debt will be over a Trillion per year… and game over.

    PS-I used to work in the foundry industry.

  86. stephen richards says:
    November 16, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    No but a recent report claimed that cancers were up in Beijing

    …like everywhere in the world where people

    a) do no longer die young because of illnesses, starvation, or hazardous workplace conditions
    b) are getting the medical attention needed both to keep them alive long enough to develop cancer, and to diagnose that cancer

    Nobody was diagnosed with cancer in the stone age, but that doesn’t mean life was healthier then!

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