Ship sprayed seawater cloud making V2.0

Willis covered this before on WUWT, with Every Silver Lining Has A Cloud. Its baaaack.

Figure 1. Artist’s conception of cloud-making ships. Of course, the first storm would flip this over immediately, but heck, it’s only a fantasy, so who cares? SOURCE

From the University of Washington  and the Royal Society

Experiment would test cloud geoengineering as way to slow warming

Even though it sounds like science fiction, researchers are taking a second look at a controversial idea that uses futuristic ships to shoot salt water high into the sky over the oceans, creating clouds that reflect sunlight and thus counter global warming.

University of Washington atmospheric physicist Rob Wood describes a possible way to run an experiment to test the concept on a small scale in a comprehensive paper published this month in the journal Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society.

The point of the paper — which includes updates on the latest study into what kind of ship would be best to spray the salt water into the sky, how large the water droplets should be and the potential climatological impacts — is to encourage more scientists to consider the idea of marine cloud brightening and even poke holes in it. He and a colleague detail an experiment to test the concept.

“What we’re trying to do is make the case that this is a beneficial experiment to do,” Wood said. With enough interest in cloud brightening from the scientific community, funding for an experiment may become possible, he said.

The theory behind so-called marine cloud brightening is that adding particles, in this case sea salt, to the sky over the ocean would form large, long-lived clouds. Clouds appear when water forms around particles. Since there is a limited amount of water in the air, adding more particles creates more, but smaller, droplets.

“It turns out that a greater number of smaller drops has a greater surface area, so it means the clouds reflect a greater amount of light back into space,” Wood said. That creates a cooling effect on Earth.

Marine cloud brightening is part of a broader concept known as geoengineering which encompasses efforts to use technology to manipulate the environment. Brightening, like other geoengineering proposals, is controversial for its ethical and political ramifications and the uncertainty around its impact. But those aren’t reasons not to study it, Wood said.

“I would rather that responsible scientists test the idea than groups that might have a vested interest in proving its success,” he said. The danger with private organizations experimenting with geoengineering is that “there is an assumption that it’s got to work,” he said.

Wood and his colleagues propose trying a small-scale experiment to test feasibility and begin to study effects. The test should start by deploying sprayers on a ship or barge to ensure that they can inject enough particles of the targeted size to the appropriate elevation, Wood and a colleague wrote in the report. An airplane equipped with sensors would study the physical and chemical characteristics of the particles and how they disperse.

The next step would be to use additional airplanes to study how the cloud develops and how long it remains. The final phase of the experiment would send out five to 10 ships spread out across a 100 kilometer, or 62 mile, stretch. The resulting clouds would be large enough so that scientists could use satellites to examine them and their ability to reflect light.

Wood said there is very little chance of long-term effects from such an experiment. Based on studies of pollutants, which emit particles that cause a similar reaction in clouds, scientists know that the impact of adding particles to clouds lasts only a few days.

Still, such an experiment would be unusual in the world of climate science, where scientists observe rather than actually try to change the atmosphere.

Wood notes that running the experiment would advance knowledge around how particles like pollutants impact the climate, although the main reason to do it would be to test the geoengineering idea.

A phenomenon that inspired marine cloud brightening is ship trails: clouds that form behind the paths of ships crossing the ocean, similar to the trails that airplanes leave across the sky. Ship trails form around particles released from burning fuel.

But in some cases ship trails make clouds darker. “We don’t really know why that is,” Wood said.

Despite increasing interest from scientists like Wood, there is still strong resistance to cloud brightening.

“It’s a quick-fix idea when really what we need to do is move toward a low-carbon emission economy, which is turning out to be a long process,” Wood said. “I think we ought to know about the possibilities, just in case.”

The authors of the paper are treading cautiously.

“We stress that there would be no justification for deployment of [marine cloud brightening] unless it was clearly established that no significant adverse consequences would result. There would also need to be an international agreement firmly in favor of such action,” they wrote in the paper’s summary.

###

There are 25 authors on the paper, including scientists from University of Leeds, University of Edinburgh and the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory. The lead author is John Latham of the National Center for Atmospheric Research and the University of Manchester, who pioneered the idea of marine cloud brightening.

Wood’s research was supported by the UW College of the Environment Institute.

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August 20, 2012 2:03 pm

“It turns out that a greater number of smaller drops has a greater surface area, so it means the clouds reflect a greater amount of light back into space,” Wood said. That creates a cooling effect on Earth.”
Um, er……………..but this is the exact opposite of the cornerstone of CAGW theory – more clouds mean more heat is retained, at least so sayeth the high priests of the global warming industry. Big feedbacks etc.

August 20, 2012 2:03 pm

I’ve a better idea: Built more coal fired power plants (or nuclear if you’re really concerned about CO2). Each one of those babies has at least a pair of cooling towers that vents water vapor up the wazzou.

MarkW
August 20, 2012 2:06 pm

If you want to brighten marine clouds, we already know how to do that. Steam ships burning lots of high sulfur coal.

GlynnMhor
August 20, 2012 2:08 pm

This experiment might be interesting, but it would probably be worthwhile to wait until Kirkby’s CLOUD experiment at CERN has output more complete data, since that knowledge would provide important bases for their experiment design.

Curiousgeorge
August 20, 2012 2:09 pm

Some people continue to insist that sky pie really is yummy.

Ack
August 20, 2012 2:10 pm

Wouldn’t the power requirements be enormous? Which CO2 spewing fuel would be required to power these ships.

tom in indy
August 20, 2012 2:11 pm

I wonder if a billion years ago venus and mars were teeming with intelligent life until some idiot came along and decided that geoengineering was a good idea.

Ben Wilson
August 20, 2012 2:14 pm

Let’s see we’re going to use megawatts or gigawatts of energy which will cause warming — in an attempt to prevent warming??
Sounds like something a university intellectual could embrace!!

Michael Gersh
August 20, 2012 2:16 pm

I see, the same folks that insist we stop using oil, gas, and coal, with all those clear and obviously devastating consequences for humanity, now insist that we can’t do anything else “unless it was clearly established that no significant adverse consequences would result.” Hypocrites.

David Wright
August 20, 2012 2:17 pm

Wow, salty rain. Is this the dopiest idea of the century so far?

Richdo
August 20, 2012 2:18 pm

“I would rather that responsible scientists test the idea than groups that might have a vested interest in proving its success,” he said. The danger with private organizations experimenting with geoengineering is that “there is an assumption that it’s got to work,” he said.
Priceless

deepred
August 20, 2012 2:18 pm

And the energy to make water to flow uphill will come from where?

Martin C
August 20, 2012 2:19 pm

So how much power is required to shoot the sea water into the air? is the CO2 created (and therefore the ‘forcing’) from this power generation source offset by the solar energy the clouds are blocking?
. .ooh I have an idea along this line – the ship can have its own wind turbines attached to it to generalte the electricity to run the pumps that shoot the sea water into the air . . . 🙂

Justthinkin
August 20, 2012 2:21 pm

physicist Rob Wood,philosophical transactions??? WTF? Which is he,a physicist or a philospher?
If a physicist,thank whoever he was nowhere near the Manhatten Project. And the design of that cloud making thingie.Couldn’t he find any marine engineers?

Doug Huffman
August 20, 2012 2:22 pm

Does anyone else recall the prog-left’s Vorsorgeprinzip – Precautionary Principle – first endorsed in the World Charter for Nature, UN 1982? http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0013/001395/139578e.pdf

jim2
August 20, 2012 2:25 pm

They need to be figuring out how to warm the Earth instead.

Otter
August 20, 2012 2:26 pm

I thought clouds were a Positive feedback, isn`t that what the models contend? 😉

D. J. Hawkins
August 20, 2012 2:28 pm

On the scientific merits alone, I can’t see a reason not to run the experiments. More knowledge is always better than less. This could also boomerang on the Warmanistas, if it turns out that it could work and if it turns out that it’s, say, 1/10 the cost of the various carbon trading schemes now making the rounds. Then the skeptics could say, “Hey, even if you’re right, here’s a solution that costs less than yours, unless you just really want to kill poor people by making energy unaffordable.”

Owen in GA
August 20, 2012 2:30 pm

Why do we want to bring on an ice age…haven’t these people looked at the geologic record and see we are very close to the long-term glaciation temperature line. (Of course the amount of energy require to send that stuff into the atmosphere is probably going take a lot of “Evil Oil” to be burned in the ships – or are these nuclear powered top-heavy vessels that we are going to have to worry about spilling reactor fuel when the first rogue wave capsizes it.)

Doug
August 20, 2012 2:30 pm

“Still, such an experiment would be unusual in the world of climate science, where scientists observe rather than actually try to change the atmosphere.”
Really, I thought climate science was about making up models that are poor predictors of observations or about “adjusting” the observations so that it makes the science look better.
Also, have they even considered the amount of energy that it will take to generate these water droplets? Driving that much water up vertically, then atomizing the water into droplets is going to use lots and lots of fossil fuel. Unless they do it near a wind farm.

August 20, 2012 2:34 pm

From “SOURCE”
1,900 ships worldwide………. .
Pardon the pun, but they would just provide a drop in the ocean.
I don’t think so.
Unless we are back to 1st. April yet again.

H.R.
August 20, 2012 2:35 pm

And if they’re wrong about CAGW and the earth actually needs to be warmed up, we can reverse the pumps and use the ship to suck clouds out of the air? Just askin’.

Thomas Spaziani
August 20, 2012 2:35 pm

These climate/geo-engineering schemes scare me even more than if Hansen’s worst case climate model was true. For instance, I can totally see a co2 sequestration projection going horribly wrong and killing as many people as Lake Nyos. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Nyos
Or imagine if they did manage to lower global temps unnaturally, imagine the death from the cold. Not to mention, I swear some people think any co2 is bad, imagine if they somehow managed to drop CO2 below 176ppm. Goodbye plants.
These people are pure nutcases that scare the crap out of me.

August 20, 2012 2:39 pm

Still no word on the legal implication of all these efforts…say, if all that salt were to fall on cultivated areas and burn them to the ground, who would pay? And what will protect the geoengineers from giant class actions after the first post-deployment storm or frost?

Mike M
August 20, 2012 2:42 pm

Ack says: Wouldn’t the power requirements be enormous? Which CO2 spewing fuel would be required to power these ships.

Well of course they’d be solar powered … errr, ahhh, oh wait …never mind.

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