From Penn State:
Environment Canada cuts threaten science, international agreements
Recent cuts to the scientific workforce of Environment Canada, a government agency responsible for meteorological services and environmental research, threaten scientific research related to the ozone layer in the upper atmosphere and pollution in the lower atmosphere, according to environmental scientists in the U.S. These reductions in personnel and projected budget cuts also threaten existing international agreements.
“Canada is a bellwether for environmental change, not only for Arctic ozone depletion but for pollutants that stream to North America from other continents, ” said Anne Thompson, professor of meteorology, Penn State. “It is unthinkable that data collection is beginning to shut down in this vast country, in some cases at stations that started decades ago.”
The researchers, commenting in the current (Feb. 14) issue of the American Geophysical Unions Eos newspaper, state that since August when the cuts went into effect, ozone soundings have ceased at several Canadian stations. Lidar network measurements of particle pollution layers from five Canadian stations no longer occur, and the website that was distributing this data has disappeared.
Environment Canada conducts many programs in support of international agreements including the UN framework for Climate Change Convention, the Montreal Protocol and U.S. bilateral agreements. The Canadian government signed all these agreements, but their ability to fulfil their obligations is now in question.
“Research conducted by scientists in Canada has been instrumental for the success of the Montreal Protocol, the international legislation that has successfully reduced atmospheric levels of ozone depleting substances,” said Ross Salawitch, professor in the atmospheric and oceanic science department, University of Maryland, College Park. “The ozone layer, particularly in the Arctic, is still sensitive because of the long atmospheric lifetime of pollutants that cause ozone depletion.”
Binational agreements between Canada and the U.S. are also of concern to scientists and policy makers.
“A number of research areas in which Canada has shown past leadership now face a questionable future,” said Ray Hoff, professor of physics, University of Maryland, Baltimore County. “These include deposition of toxic organic chemicals from the air onto the Great Lakes and vertical profiling of aerosols using laser radar.”
Franco Einaudi, retired, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, adds, “Recent comments by Canada at the Durban Climate Change Summit have added to the concern that Canada’s environmental commitment may be changing.”
With Canada’s vast Northern Territory, tracking climatic sensitivities as well as ozone depletion and arctic pollution are concerns of scientists and policymakers alike. Environment Canada’s programs have long been a gold standard. With personnel losses and further decisions on reductions in force or re-assignment of personnel pending, the researchers are concerned that they and the international community can no longer rely on the exceptional efforts and past leadership that Canada exhibited.
“Canada stands to lose an entire community of highly respected scientists who are experts on ozone and climate if further proposed budget cuts go through,” said Jennifer Logan, senior research fellow in atmospheric chemistry, Harvard University.
Future budget cuts at Environment Canada appear certain. Until the community is given specifics about the long-term environmental program, the ability for Canada to maintain its key role in support of science and the international agreements like the Montreal Protocol is compromised. The world stands to lose an enormous amount of data necessary for our understanding of the environment in these cold reaches and around the globe if these programs end.
Boo Hoo
Well, it can’t all be bad then, if the Montreal Protocol gets the big swirly down the dirt chute. Wonder if China still supports it. Lizzie?
More, faster, cut the deficit by cutting useless programs.
Good move Steve
If Canadian measurements are so important why has NASA Giss avoided using them in its temperature assessments. It wouldn’t be because they might co tribute to a cooling picture.
So here’s the main point of this article (I knew they’d eventually get to it)…
“Canada stands to lose an entire community of highly
paidrespected scientists who are experts on ozone and climate if further proposed budget cuts go through,” said Jennifer Logan, senior research fellow in atmospheric chemistry, Harvard University.So I suppose these “experts” don’t have enough “skills” to make it in the private sector, like the rest of working stiffs? Hmmm…
And wait until the U.S. follows suit in 2013…November is only 9 months away…
Or maybe we Canuckleheads may have woken up to the fact that ozone depletion is no more caused by CFC’s then acne is caused by chocolate.
We were just told, in no uncertain terms, that less stations and measurements…….gave better results…..
…deal with it
“Environment Canada cuts threaten science…”
Women, children, and climate scientists hardest hit!!!
“threaten… international agreements”
oops! that whole idea that “international agreements” are forever is going down the tubes! Well, there goes the strategy of enshrining “global warming” into the law and thinking you’re done. Easy come, easy go.
“Canada stands to lose an entire community of highly respected scientists who are experts on ozone and climate if further proposed budget cuts go through,”
As Hamlet said, sounds like a consummation devoutly to be wished. kind of like when a patient finally realizes that his best hope of recovery will be to scrape off all the leeches his most eminent “doctors” have saddled him with.
Looks like the gravy train is slowly grinding to a halt.
“Canada is a bellwether for environmental change, not only for Arctic ozone depletion but for pollutants that stream to North America from other continents, ” said Anne Thompson, professor of meteorology, Penn State. “It is unthinkable that data collection is beginning to shut down in this vast country, in some cases at stations that started decades ago.”
So how do they explain the loss of some US temperature reporting stations, some of which had been operating for decades?
The second thing I noticed was the list of colleges that seem to be complaining – Penn State. University of Maryland, College Park. University of Maryland, Baltimore County. Harvard University.
Maybe it was just the location of the reporters, but it seems that if Canada was suffering the loss of data, why aren’t we hearing Canadian universities speaking up?
When the “Science” of the Climatologist meets the “Science” of the Economists and the Politicians.
The ‘Hard’ science guys have paid with their heads in the past, particularly when the Pope ruled the world. The science guys were factually correct, at times, and still feared public opinion.
Today, the ‘Hard’ science guys tried to play both sides. It worked great ‘cept they forgot…
“We the People”…or something like that…I think
Rent seekers lose rent.
Like the Catholics who don’t like President Obama’s HHS decree, the environmentalists are going to have to lie in the bed that they made for themselves.
Whether you are a proponent of AGW or more sceptical the last paragraph sums up the reality that losing an important source of carefully collected data assists no one. Hopefully the government will not terminate the programs
CFCs do not deplect ozone.
Ozone is a very unstable molecule, It does not need the help of any radicals to decompose, it does it by itself. The ozone depleted by CFCs theory is not compatible with the empirical data. If it were, the holes should not appear over the poles, but over the equator, where there is higher temperature and higher levels of radical forming radiation. And definetively not during the artic winter, when there is no solar radiation to break CFCs into radicals.
I was assured, a year ago, that Environment Canada spent not one cent on “Global Warming” studies etc. Civil servants mistaken? So the non-existent climate scientists have nothing to worry about….
Go Canada Go.
Lets hope that other countries will quickly follow.
“A number of research areas in which Canada has shown past leadership now face a questionable future,”
What is “shown past leadership”?
Endless data collection that cannot be shown to have contributed to anything useful?
Claiming it contributed to some legislation or program which may have led to some benefit is simply way too easy report.
Every ludicrous academic adventure makes that claim.
In this era of climate science pandemonium everybody and their mother wants a piece of the action for their “vital” work in measuring dirt, watching water and profiling precipitation.
I suspect that after many decades of sea ice measurement there will never be any demonstrated benefit it form doing so. Instead it will just be presumed to have been worthwhile. Really?
hmmm…
from: http://www.canada.com/Feds+upgrade+weather+monitoring+warning+systems/6027208/story.html
Feds to upgrade weather monitoring and warning systems
By Linda Nguyen, Postmedia News January 20, 2012
TORONTO – The federal government announced Friday it will spend $78.7 million over the next five years to improve Canada’s weather monitoring and warning systems.
The majority of the funding ($45.2 million) will go towards maintaining and upgrading 31 radar sites across the country, which detect weather patterns from tornadoes to heavy snow squalls. Some of the radars are up to 40 years old.
from: http://www.ec.gc.ca/default.asp?lang=En&n=592AB94B-1&news=06F87D0A-4EC0-41F2-99EE-729855FCEA65
The Government of Canada is investing $78.7 million over five years to strengthen weather and warning services for Canadians. This investment will upgrade four key areas of Environment Canada’s weather and climate monitoring infrastructure.
more…
You don’t need Canadian data. Your climate scientists ( hard to use the words climate and scientist together without smirking) can take measurements anywhere else in the world and interpolate the ozone levels over Canada from those measurements. Much like they do for their other data. They are also able to change the historical measurements to get the desired results.
Do we really need all these pesky measurement things when we have so many great models. The data will only get lost anyway. /sarc
Anne, if it is so very important, then you pay for it, or, pay for the information collected. If I want information regarding many subjects, I have to pay the holder of that information a handsome sum to get it. So far we have been giving it away. Most of the recipients seem to have been massaging the data until the results meet what they feel is the correct summation. As far as I am concerned, they can do it the “old fashioned way”, The way they did it in the nineteen nineties. They can invent it.
First, anything relating to climate and the environment coming from Penn State has no credibility as far as I’m concerned as long as Michael Mann is on the faculty. Second, although I think atmospheric and environmental research is important, the current crop of so-called environmental and climate scientists have demonstrated that they should all have their funding cut. They have practiced too much pseudoscience and become way to political to have the taxpayers continue to finance their garbage research. If people think I’m painting with too broad a brush, too bad. It’s way past the time for cleaning house.
And while we’re at it up here maybe the US of A can take away the tax exempt status of Media Matters.
http://mediamatters.org/search/tag/climate_change
http://in.news.yahoo.com/video/opinion-15749653/is-the-white-house-coordinating-with-media-matters-28282054.html
UVic in Victoria BC has this group called the Pacific Climate Impact Consortium.
Recently they published this claim:
“Based on a preliminary analysis at PCIC of the 62 years of temperature data collected by Environment Canada since 1950, last year was about average. Nevertheless, the background tendency towards warmer temperatures is clear in these observations.
The 62-year trend shows an overall warming of about 0.25°C per decade, which is substantially greater than the global trend of 0.13°C per decade reported by the IPCC for the period 1956-
2005.”
Hmmm. 62 years. Why would they pick 1950 as the baseline?
http://pacificclimate.org/sites/default/files/publications/PCIC.Update.Winter2012.pdf
Oh right. Of the 3 GISS BC stations I could find with 2011 and pre-1950 data I noticed that 1950 was pretty much the coldest year ever.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/gistemp_station.py?id=403711090000&data_set=13&num_neighbors=1
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/gistemp_station.py?id=403718940000&data_set=13&num_neighbors=1
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/gistemp_station.py?id=425004514840&data_set=13&num_neighbors=1
The claim about excess warming from 1950 is quite bogus and shames Canada and UVic in particular.
Yeah, well the recent data hasn’t really been helping the Team. So I guess they’re better off without it.
Oh well, back to the models, the tree rings and other proxies it is then. Much easier to manage anyway.
Of course, there never was any “hole” in the ozone layer:
http://junksciencearchive.com/Ozone/ozone_seasonal.html
To all the concerned scientists south of the border. We’re doing fine in the true north strong and free, but thanks for the thought.
Oh you poor greenie weenie zealots. I feel your pain that Canada has thrust upon ye. I pray that you find solace in the arms of his Algorishness. May the Gore effect be upon ye.
Oh Canada. America turns it’s lonely eyes to you. Please lead us from the green miasma we are foundering in. Ye have seen the light. Please lead us from the darkness to the promised land of energy security and happiness for all.. Amen.
Bad Canada! Bad dog! You’ve eaten all my homework…at least that’s what I’ll tell teacher….
This is sad. Canada has a strong position within the meteorlogical arena, and has been at the forefront of many innovations. Innovations that help this country to stay on a strong technical footing.
Sad
“according to environmental scientists in the U.S. These reductions in personnel and projected budget cuts also threaten existing international agreements”
I can see it now… these Bozo’s are gonna try and get the U.S. to augment the funding and have us pay for it.
Funny how the whole gang from Environment Canada to AGU and Penn State are defending their gravy train… Just wait for the Thomson Reuters Globe and Mail to pound on this with the help of Soros and Rockefeller funded pundits… LOL
Jeff Wiita says:
February 13, 2012 at 4:48 pm
Like the Catholics who don’t like President Obama’s HHS decree, the environmentalists are going to have to lie in the bed that they made for themselves.
As a Catholic, at first I was offended by your comment……then I got it. Any Catholics who voted for Obama were foolish, for many reasons.
How timely….. not all scientists in Canada think the ozone is really all that important….. Like most good skeptics he was steps ahead of the alarmists….
http://drtimball.com/2012/effect-of-environmentalists-crying-wolf-over-ozone-thinning-appear/
Its a nice quick worthwhile read…… and before someone blathers about how we were saved just in the nick of time by those lunatic enviro laws…. you should read the little article in the link.
Medical care is eating their budget wholesale. Even more is going to be cut. It is really ironic that government can’t now do the things we always thought government was for because their money is being taken by things we used to do for ourselves.
A loss of real data isn’t a good thing. A loss of data manipulation leading to false conclusions is a good thing.
But again I lament the loss of honest data. If there is not funding though I can’t complain.
SPF 30 Sunscreen in combination with the few hours of sunlight we get up here is good enough for me. Much more affordable than keeping all those takers around that only can find doom and gloom.
http://goingconcern.com/post/kpmg-decides-not-publish-green-energy-report-pissed-green-folks
This is a pretty interesting story. Looks like KPMG got ‘Gored’.
Approve the Keystone pipeline or your precious (and Canadian taxpayer funded then filed) data gets deleted he,he,he,he. ;-))
My apologies to Dr. Thompson. I know it’s wrong to practice guilt by association, but as soon as I read “…, professor of meteorology, Penn State”, I just couldn’t take this article seriously.
Do you what the potential of these Canadian cuts will mean don’t you?
Some of these clowns will have to get real jobs…
Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!
Blame Canada!
I have that South Park song going through my head now.
Oh Canada !………..not thinking of Oh Calcutta are you ?
Saw this in London, long ago, glad my memory has faded.
It’s called cutting off the air supply. I am sure it will work wonders!
Uh oh! This is beginning to sound like the climate version of Greece.
Franco Einaudi, retired, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, adds, “Recent comments by Canada at the Durban Climate Change Summit have added to the concern that Canada’s environmental commitment may be changing.”
========================================================
God these people are brilliant……….what was his first clue?
So all these university people are going to have to either scrap everything they’ve been working on…or figure out a way to jiggle it …because they just got cut off from their numbers
I’ll bet they had a whole gravy train set up, governments provide them with the raw material, and all they have to do is figure out a way to make it pay
I wonder if this might have anything to do with the recent news that the Scientists’ (Canadians as well as International) lost their cruise ship, CGS Amundsen to mechanical problems for this year.
Now they have to walk or take a snowmobile and despite Gorgeous Al’s warning there are hungry polar bears out there.
As an Australian who spent some years in mid-northern Canada, I have a comment: GO, Canuck; you have nothing to lose but your chains!
“Canada stands to lose an entire community of highly respected scientists who are experts on ozone and climate if further proposed budget cuts go through,”
Why, are these scientists suddenly going to drop dead? No, they will either go into private industry and create jobs or go work for the government of some other country and become a drain on their economy. Either way a win win.
It is about time that expensive taxpayer funded research into urgent dire catastrophic disastrous threats of Armageddon ENDED.
There are enough REAL problems in this World without wasting gargantuan sums on phantasms.
It was all just a bunch of unfounded fraudulent scare mongering by shady climate “scientists”.
Howard B says:
February 13, 2012 at 4:54 pm
Feds to upgrade weather monitoring and warning systems
By Linda Nguyen, Postmedia News January 20, 2012
TORONTO – The federal government announced Friday it will spend $78.7 million over the next five years to improve Canada’s weather monitoring and warning systems.
That at least makes sense. Spend money on weather forecasting and emergency preparedness. Get out from behind the computer simulations 100 years in the future and do something useful today.
If you solve today’s problems, tomorrow’s problems pretty much take care of themselves.
I’d like to see Canada contribute to programs such as AMSU and ENVISAT instead. A few less bodies trying to dream up some reason why CO2 must be sensitive to Milankovich cycles is a positive development.
Bruce says:
February 13, 2012 at 5:00 pm
UVic in Victoria BC has this group called the Pacific Climate Impact Consortium.
Oh right. Of the 3 GISS BC stations I could find with 2011 and pre-1950 data I noticed that 1950 was pretty much the coldest year ever.
The UVic has a spectacularly rabid bunch of AGW fanatics. They were the ones that announced their climate unit had a break-in the same day as the Climategate emails were released. Terrorist denier precision on a global scale to equal al-queda. Or “Free the Animals” trying to end the horrible CO2 climate experiments performed on living creatures. Were they the ones that turned fish deaf and dissolved defenseless mollusks in carbolic acid?
If the threat is serious, this would be an ideal chance for a set of volunteers and/or local businesses to take over the measuring stations and keep them honest. Perhaps supervised and linked by nearby TV stations with non-warmist weathermen?
I might add that savings from program reductions might just be applied to more deserving branches of science and/or technology. When Chretien came to power, “science policy” became entrenchment of the ivory tower mandarins, and instead of investing in research, the feds drained cash to the infamous “jobs” program.
I can only hope that technological research and DEVELOPMENT become important again in the sciences, rather than the politically correct pap that we’ve been living with for the past 15 or more years.
Will Canada also lose David Suzuki? One can but hope.
WTF says:
February 13, 2012 at 5:55 pm
“Approve the Keystone pipeline…”
This is actually a brilliant idea! Use money from the Keystone pipeline and oil production in Alberta to fund Canadian climate science! They could even erect signs near the pipeline such as “Your Canadian oil – funding our leadership in Climate Science”. It’s a win-win situation for all!
I am not against climate science or any other science but I hope they will bring in a “scientific method” demand for ALL future science before funding. Imagine if you will M&M getting to preview all climate study designs. That will weed out the gravy train slackers and make more money available for real science.
The 78.7 Million the Canadian Federal goverment is investing over the next 5 years includes:
The $45.2 million, five year funding will stabilize and life-cycle manage the existing Canadian Radar Network and will allow the existing newer generation radars to upgrade to state of the art “dual-polarization” technology in a staged approach.
Environment Canada’s Meteorological Service will be focusing on the 550 core hourly and daily reporting sites that are key for climate and severe weather purposes. The older equipment at these core sites will be replaced and upgraded using a life-cycle management process. The $18.8 million, five year funding will supplement existing resources and enable approximately 250 surface weather and climate observing stations to be upgraded.
The $4.2 million, five year funding will go towards upgrading the Aerological Network by replacing the obsolete long range navigational technology with new multi-sensor GPS radiosonde equipment. This technology upgrade will ensure continued access to the full suite of atmospheric wind and temperature data through the depth of the atmosphere.
The $10.5 million, five year funding will allow for maintaining and upgrading the Canadian Lightning Detection Network sensor and communications infrastructure and to improve the lightning information available on Environment Canada’s Weatheroffice website.
Come on, lay off Penn State, they are #1. See for yourself!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/13/top-slacker-colleges-according-college-humor_n_1272873.html
The reason Harper got reelected w/t a majority is that he succeded at convincing Canadian that he will do its best to deliver what was promised before election, and also that he is serious on the topic of putting Canada’ economy on robust ground.
In fact, I think it is now evident that most Canadian think that were all heading (all = world) into very deep sh*t at “vitesse grand V”. Here it is not possible to push a button to start a money printing device like south border where it seem so easy…
Now having the majority, Harper have the mean to do some much needed cleaning. Leaving Kyoto was the only realistic choice. Remember that if all the speculation about return of a colder climate are to be true, like many here like to joke, up here we may end up restarting trapping beaver.
However on the bright side, we’re already acustomized to a very cold winter w/t lot of snow (here we call it sh*t for a good reason). Unlike many places like Europe that simply cannot cope w/t a couples feet of snow & few degree below point of freeze, here if it’s minus 20degC or minus 30degC its business as usual. But still shortening of growing season & displacement or total loss of specific culture zone like grain must be feared & anticipated.
Wanna know how it’s like having to rely on an electric car stuck in 4 feets of snow at minus 20degC & how good these thing are at keeping the windshield free of ice & condensation frost? Come live here & see!
“A number of research areas in which Canada has shown past leadership now face a questionable future,”
Canada is once again showing what true leadership is about. Rather than throwing good money after bad funding research in areas that have a questionable future, Canada has taken the lead in climate science.
Leadership means leading. If we follow what the American’s say is right, we are followers not leaders. Canada is not a nation of followers.
Nice work, Canadians. We should do the same with our bloated climate establishment.
As usual, follow the money……money is drying up, so will the jobs and the science. I’ve heard and read that only rich countries can afford all this environmentally correct stuff.
Terminate with Extreme Prejustice! Then build that dammable pipeline.
James Sexton says:
February 13, 2012 at 5:22 pm …….
“How timely….. ”
Yes, for sure visit Dr Tim Ball’s website. His articles are excellent.
http://drtimball.com/
Don’t forget that he was sued by Mike Mann for his comment about state pen instead on Penn State
Search his site for comments on Environment Canada
Hopefully they will use the savings for GM studies to find grains that will grow north of the 49th.
Not to sound too right-wing, but the one area of research that consistently delivers innovation worth having in your country… is defense, and yet everyone wants to cut defense and support all these nonsense endeavors.
People seem to think defense and think people shooting people, but they fail to realize the army of engineers/researchers that are doing truly groundbreaking stuff for that investment.
It never ceases to amaze me when people who have emphasized CO2 as the main driver of climate suddenly see that their single focus has drawn attention away from other, and in this case, more important, research. If all the money the Greens have squandered, advocating and succeeding in shutting down nuclear power plants that now have to be rehabilitated and restarted so that the lights do not go out as all the windmills stop turning in July due to a high pressure system over the Great Lakes, and had funded the Arctic research, boreal forest management, etc. where would research be today? But no. CO2 took the lion’s share of resources and now we have? less money to go around. There is just so much blood one can squeeze from the Canadian public electric &heating bills. In a very ironic twist, the greens are the enemy of environmental research and understanding. The chickens sure do come home to roost.
We can only hope to ‘lose highly respected scientists in climate’. Perhaps Penn State is hiring:)
Urederra says:
February 13, 2012 at 4:51 pm
> CFCs do not deplect ozone.
> Ozone is a very unstable molecule, It does not need the help of any radicals to decompose, it
> does it by itself. The ozone depleted by CFCs theory is not compatible with the empirical data. If > it were, the holes should not appear over the poles, but over the equator, where there is higher > temperature and higher levels of radical forming radiation. And definetively not during the artic > winter, when there is no solar radiation to break CFCs into radicals.
Ozone is formed by very shortwave UV (near and under 200 nm), and is more stable at lower temperatures. The problem in polar areas is that clouds sometimes form in the ozone layer in polar areas in late winter and early spring. Clouds do not form in the ozone layer anywhere else. The problem is that an ozone molecule is quickly broken down when it touches a cloud ice crystal and chlorine at the same time. The ozone molecule then oxidizes the chlorine, to form O2 and chlorine oxide. Chlorine oxide has been found in polar areas, especially the antarctic, in late winter and early spring.
Also, ionically bonded inorganic chlorides are not a problem. A chloride ion is not oxidized by ozone the way a covalently bonded chlorine atom is. Apparently, ozone reacts with chlorinated hydrocarbons, or the chlorinated hydrocarbons get broken down to something more reactive by sunlight before winter or before they reach polar areas.
Ozone may also be destroyed by chlorine or chlorinated hydrocarbons elsewhere, but much more slowly than when and where clouds are present in the ozone layer.
I Am Canadian!
The opinion of these Yanks are nothing more than their interfering in Canadians internal affairs!
Isn’t that against “The UN Charter Of Domicile Freedoms, Don’t Question What I Do, Hey I’m Still A UN Member” thingy?
I think it is!
IB
Jusy says: “Or maybe we Canuckleheads may have woken up to the fact that ozone depletion is no more caused by CFC’s then acne is caused by chocolate”.
The general acceptance of that awakening, Jusy, will be a sobering day. It will shatter so much trust that the entire world will be shocked… shocked to the point that harsh, even draconian, demands are made of “experts” in every field in which the fate of humanity — from the individual to the entire community — is concerned.
We have been and are being ill severed by those in fields as far apart as medicine and economics, and need a blood letting of massive proportions.
Throw open the sluice gates.
Since Thompson and her fellow complainants are so concerned about the impact on the livelihood of those Environment Canada has (for whatever reason) deemed to be surplus, perhaps they could have a quiet word with their philanthropic Big Green benefactors … and suggest a redirection of those funds currently flowing to Canadian non-profits:
http://opinion.financialpost.com/2012/02/08/65-million-for-ducks-and-more/
These benefactors could pool their considerable resources and establish an Institute for De-Commissioned Canadian Climatologists (IDCCC) so that they may carry on their noble mission.
Canadians are returning to the practicality, that has enabled them to thrive where it is barely inhabitable. Concentrate on what is essential and do it with all your might and ability. Common sense is just a little more common there. GK
I smell a large rat here.
Aerosols, particulates, ozone. These are poorly researched areas that contribute to climate change to a largely unknown degree.
The rat I smell is that research programs that could challenge the GHG AGW orthodoxy have been cut/axed, presumably while saving programs that support the orthodoxy.
Bravo Canada!
Clean up and go!
Q: What is it with Penn State and NASA “scientists” anyway, since when did they start being so “political” as to be making such demands?
A: Real science is hard work, climate science is after easy public money. Fortunately Canada is starting to see through the special interest scheme. Way to go Canada!
Cut baby Cut
We need the leadership and realistic thinking from Canada right now. We certainly have not been seeing any such thing down here
What’s the big deal anyway? It’ll say whatever they want after homogenization anyway.
So Canada just about destroyed their economy and the people that were causing the destruction are decrying that Canada now can’t afford the people that just about destoryed their economy?
Maybe some folks are wising up; maybe other folks aren’t wising up at all.
The province of British Columbia is Canada’s version of California but with a twist. See we have a carbon tax on fuel and natural gas, but we export coal, oil and natural gas. Also will be building two LNG plants to export even more natural gas. The University of Victoria is the home of Andrew Weaver and we also have David Suzuki the fruit fly expert but I do not think he has looked at a bug in decades.
dp says:
February 13, 2012 at 8:04 pm
Snow peas is the only thing that comes to mind.
What the Env. Canada bureaucracy may be doing is cutting their most valuable services in order to generate a public and/or media backlash that restores all their funding. This is what some other politically savvy agencies faced with budget cuts have done–they’ve cut the hours they are open, etc. They should cut their global warming covens instead.
Well if they hadn’t spent all their time and our taxpayer funds concocting bulldust from data,then a lot of this cutting back wouldn’t be happening….. Anyway I’d suspect that it is mainly all the extra stuff that is being axed…. they’ll get what they need from now on. Not what they want. 🙂
Pointless expensive bureaucracies, such as government climate change departments, are like cancers in that they just grow and damage their host. Their usefulness, if any, when measured on a per capita basis, steadily declines over time.
The amount of money, desperately needed elsewhere, wasted by the world on these government funded climate ‘investigation’ bureaucracies is staggering. However, that pales into insignificance against the cost of ‘the cure’ proposed by the pampered bureaucrats they employ or fund.
The sooner these ‘scientists’ and bureaucracies are consigned to the dustbin of history, the better it will be for all of us.
Well done Canada.
IanB says:
February 13, 2012 at 8:30 pm
“Isn’t that against “The UN Charter Of Domicile Freedoms, Don’t Question What I Do, Hey I’m Still A UN Member” thingy?”
So is one sovereign country explicitly exporting weapons to criminals in another sovereign country for the purpose of increasing drug violence.
Usually this is done as an effort to destabilize and overthrow the victim government. Beats me what E. Holder et al were doing it for.
GeoLurking says:
“Usually this is done as an effort to destabilize and overthrow the victim government. Beats me what E. Holder et al were doing it for.”
================
If I recall, they actually used it to argue for stricter controls on gun shops. Y’know, because strict regulations will stop sales to criminals when the ATF (who can pull a shop’s license essentially on a whim) specifically instructs the owners to allow the sales to go through when they call the ATF to report a suspicious buyer.
If ALL the climate scientists in the world went on strike to support their Canuck brothers, I dont think anyone would notice.
ferd berple says: February 13, 2012 at 6:35 pm
“Canada stands to lose an entire community of highly respected
scientists who are experts on ozone and climate if further proposed
budget cuts go through,”
Why, are these scientists suddenly going to drop dead? No, they
will either go into private industry and create jobs or go work for the
government of some other country and become a drain on their
economy. Either way a win win.
What I’m wondering is, does Michael Mann and Co. think that these researchers will now be free agents in search of income from Mike’s ca$h cow? It would be in Mike’s interest to keep them up north. If the U.S. market becomes flooded with more climate researchers, less cake for Mr. Mann & Co.
Some people in Canadia showing common sense and fortitude. Please reward them.
There is still more to learn about high altitude ozone chemistry, free radicals, anti-oxidants, etc.
The same can be said for dietary fads, where anti-oxidants are being pushed to fraudulent limits to gullible people who want to “detox” and do other strange acts.
However, in both cases, the work has to compete fairly for that scarce research dollar.
Canada has finally woken up to the fact that for all their efforts to collect good data, the bad “science” its used in by bad “scientists” means they might as well not bother and save themselves some time, effort and money.
Way to go warmers, corrupted the whole scientific method with your brand of green lunacy, dont be surprised when it comes off the rails.
Canada! Good for you guys! Others should soon follow suit.
Does the canadian environment care about the loss of “enviromental science”?
I think not…
What a terrible shame that these “scientists and researchers” at cutting edge computer games are about to be asked to find new employment. Canada I am jealous, we still have an idiot in charge in OZ.
Greenpeace and WWF will be getting a lot of CVs.
This is good news. Environmental research groups seem to attract activists who soon push the ‘science’ towards the improbable/impossible claims. They waste taxpayer money. Canada is well rid of.
http://icoads.noaa.gov/products.html
Not so fast with all the guffawing “sack the lot of ’em” jerk comments.
Good data collection is NEEDED to show AGW is a crock. Nothing would please the AGW crowd more that if data collection stops before it provides even more incontrovertible proof that it’s all been a lie.
AGW’s Killing Fields.
…-
“No, this is no mere cold snap. There’s a tragedy unfolding in Europe, and the world needs to know.
Tragedy unfolding in Europe – Is U.S. media trying to ignore it?”
“But it’s that “cold snap” thing that bugs me.
Did all of the world’s journalists go to “cold snap” school?
If temperatures go up by a hundredth of a degree they scream “global warming.” But if, heaven forbid, it’s record cold and record snow? “Well, let’s just call it a cold snap.”
Would you call it a “cold snap” when more than 100 vessels become trapped in icy waters of the Sea of Azov? That’s what Reuters called it. “A fierce cold snap with temperatures of about -25C (-13 F) caused large parts of the Azov Sea to freeze,” said Reuters.
Would you call it a “cold snap” when more than 2,000 roads in Turkey are blocked by heavy snows? That’s what the Google News headline announced. The article itself was very good, speaking of brutal cold and record low temperatures, but – “cold snap”?
Would you call it a “cold snap” when people have to cut tunnels through 15 feet of snow to get out of their homes? “Eastern Europe has been pummeled by a record-breaking cold snap,” says this otherwise great AP article.
Look at these headlines. Are these the result of a “cold snap”?
Look at these headlines. Are these the result of a “cold snap”?
Serbia cuts power in desperate bid to prevent collapse of national grid The country’s entire electric distribution system could collapse…
Hundreds of barns collapse in Italy At least one million farm animals in danger of running out of food.
Villages buried under 4-5 meters of snow—Video “23.000 people are isolated, how many people and animals have died we don’t know since nobody can reach there.”
Italian villages trapped in more than 9 feet of snow With the death toll already at 43, another blast of freezing weather…
Danube freezes over—One of the greatest rivers in Europe Danube wholly or partially blocked in six countries.
Most winter grain destroyed in southern and eastern Ukraine With temperatures 12 to 17C below average, the situation in Ukraine has became serious.
European death toll rises to 480—and counting 150 cattle killed when roofs collapse. “It seems more like a war in Europe.”
Code red for agriculture in Tuscany “Blizzard comes and farmers tremble”—Loss rates up to 50%.
Turkey quake survivors fighting the snow Walking 300 feet through the snow to reach the nearest toilets.
No, this is no mere cold snap. There’s a tragedy unfolding in Europe, and the world needs to know.
Please forward this article to everyone you can.
Robert Felix”
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/44605
Funding Shortage Threatens Germany’s Energy Revolution
SPIEGEL ONLINE – February 13, 2012
Germany’s climate fund, a cornerstone of the government’s much hyped transition towards renewable energy, has been massively underfunded during its first year of operation. The Green Party has accused the government of failing in its plan to create an energy revolution.
the outlook for the fund remains bleak for 2012, given that the income from emissions trading has fallen short of predictions. The current market price of carbon-dioxide certificates is €7.50 rather than the expected €17, which the calculations for the fund were based on. Faced with less income than expected from emissions trading, the Finance Ministry is now considering boosting the ailing climate fund by giving it an “unplanned liquidity loan” from the federal budget.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,814905,00.html
They run out of others people’s money.
Why do you think Fritz Vahrenholt changed side. No money no believe in. A change you can believe in.
And that is exactly where the CFC theory fails. Since it is more stable at lower temperatures the so-called ozone hole should be formed over the equator, because it is warmer in there. Empirically that does not happen, because ozone concentration is in dynamic equilibrium, the concentration depends on the formation rate and on the decomposition rate. Formation rate is high at the equator but 0 at the poles during the winter because there is not ozone forming UV radiation during the 6 months nights at the poles. That is why the so-called ozone hole grows during the winter, and has always been growing during the winter since the Earth had O2 in the atmosphere.
There are two reasons ozone is more stable at lower temperatures, the same two reasons any chemical compound is more stable and does not react at lower temperates, First, because at lower temperatures molecules travel at slower speeds and therefore less collisions per unit of time happen. And second, since gas molecules travel at slower speeds, the collisions are less energetic, and there will be less collisions with enough energy to produce a reaction. That is basic chemical kinetics. And it leads to more collisions and more energetic collisions over the equator than over the poles because of the temperature difference. Again, ozone deplection by collision should happen faster over the equatior than ofer the poles because of the temperature difference.
Besides, the so-called ozone layer is between 15 km and 55 km over sea level, Clouds and cloud ice crystals cannot to that far up. http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/mtr/cld/cldtyp/home.rxml
Moreover, a molecule of CCl4 weights 12+35*4 = 152, It is way heavier than N2 =28 or O2 = 32 It does not go up, it remains down, just like the infamous radon = 222 remains in the ground. H2 = 2 or He = 4 go up, it is gravity at work.
The fact that Chlorine oxide has been found in polar areas does not demonstrate each and every process you have described above, Chlorine oxide can be the product of many chemical reactions, You have to demonstrate that the ozone molecules actually collide with ice crystals that contain CFCs 15 Km or more above the poles. Hard thing to do since neither water nor CFCs can travel that far, specially at the poles during the winter where evaporation is close to zero.
And by the way, and that is for everybody, stop saying ozone layer There is no such thing.
If you have 1 liter of water and you add 10 mL or oil, you will get a layer of oil. But if you add 10 mL of ethanol instead of oil, you will NOT get a layer of Ethanol. That is because Ethanol is miscible in water, it mixes it up.
Same happens with ozone, it is a gas, a bit heavier than air and it is formed in the upper atmosphere, it gets mixed with the rest of the molecules and its concentration in the upper atmosphere is very, very low. There is not such thing as a layer made of ozone.
It is a convenient figure for those who support the CFCs ban, since without layer, there cannot be a hole.
@Keith. Minto
“..Oh Canada !………..not thinking of Oh Calcutta are you ?
Saw this in London, long ago, glad my memory has faded.”
Probably not – I suspect Sam Butler’s poem with the refrain ‘Oh God! Oh Montreal!.
http://diaspora.gen.nz/~maire/Philyra/poetry/anthology/poems/Butler_Montreal.html
In other news, they probably cut the climate science budget because otherwise they would have some embarrassing findings to explain away. So much easier to say ‘The science is settled’. Cheaper, too…
American professors, especially those in the State Penn, should butt out of Canadian affairs.Our government is sensibly rationalising a bloated bureaucracy.
First: message from Canada to interfering Americans: STFU and GTFO. We’re sick of hearing from sanctimonious idiots, blocking our industry (pipelines), complaining about “dirty oil” when they know nothing about it, whining about our water pollution (some of the cleanest lakes and rivers in the world, and STILL that idiot kennedy boy (RFK Jr.) is always ranting about it)… but they have no problems coming here to ski.
Second, you can’t really blame Canada for the Montreal Protocol, since Montreal is only vaguely a part of Canada anyway.
Third, there is so much waste and dishonesty in anything the government has touched for the last few decades that it can only be a good thing when unnecessary crap is cut out (ie. climate change research, the CBC in general, long-gun registry alone is $2Billion in waste). Stephen Harper is easily the best Prime Minister in my lifetime (and I was born in 1963) if only because he is a practical man, attempting to rein in waste and unneeded spending in a time of recession. Canadians have barely felt the “crash”, especially when compared to our unfortunate neighbors to the south.
Environment Canada has a specific mission, and are adequately financed to accomplish that mission. As others have pointed out, millions in upgrades to the equipment required to do their job is forthcoming. Climate change research is waste. EVEN IF the climapocalypse was upon us, daily weather forecasts and extreme weather warnings are primary, and where the money should be going.
Canada is a smaller population base than the US, it’s harder to fool everyone with giant government programs. The liberals have been buying votes in vote-rich areas with stuff that can easily be done without, and I for one am glad to see that ending as rapidly as reasonably possible. The best part is, the only way to demonize this particular conservative is to lie, and even the younger people I know are able to see through the lies these days.
Oh sure, I hit “Post Comment” and see that Robert of Ottawa summed up my rant in two sentences… lol
If they stop supporting policy based science and instead support science as a basis for political solution. I support that.
The policy based science is not science, just a political agenda. That’s what WWF and Greenpeace wants to radical change the world.
So why not leave the policy based science for them alone?
Aah – Anne Thompson. H/T to Junkscience.com for this link to information about Thompson’s program:
http://junksciencecom.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/noble_lecture_thompson011_1.pdf
It seems that Thompson’s own program is being fed by this data, up till now paid for by Canadian taxpayers. Her concern is a bit less altruistic than she admits.
BTW, if anyone can make sense of this presentation, help would be appreciated. It looks like gibberish to me.
“Canada’s vast Northern Territory”? No such entity. There’s Yukon Territory, Nunavut, and the Northwest Territories. Maybe the ignoramuses at Penn State are confusing our great nation with Australia — after all, they’re so alike.
johanna says:
February 14, 2012 at 4:52 am
Aah – Anne Thompson. H/T to Junkscience.com for this link to information about Thompson’s program:
http://junksciencecom.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/noble_lecture_thompson011_1.pdf
It seems that Thompson’s own program is being fed by this data, up till now paid for by Canadian taxpayers. Her concern is a bit less altruistic than she admits.
—
Thanks for the link. I suspected that Penn State really had no interest in Canadian government budgetary matters other than a financial interest. (Of course, most all of climate science is about getting and retaining the taxpayer-funded Climate Ca$h). Another great example of the modern truism – “Green Greed is Good”.
The Climate Liars don’t need Canadian data. The Climate Liars don’t use real world data to begin with. They adjust the truth out of it. So let Canada lay off its global warming con men and save themselves some money.
Two really, really tired headline cliches on stories about Canada:
Oh, Canada!
Eh?
Let’s retire these exhausted relics.
“Canada is a bellwether for environmental change,”
Click … switch off.
Everything is alleged to be a bellwether; except actual bellwether; castrated sheep.
On second thoughts …
There are too many clowns here who think that cutting back on scientific research is a good thing … scary!
Canadas position on Carbon Dioxide:
Carbon Dioxide is not pollution.
Carbon Dioxide is what the plants convert in to all of the food you eat.
Carbon Dioxide is what the plants convert in to all of the oxygen you breathe.
Carbon Dioxide is what you exhale.
Carbon Dioxide is the basis for all life on the surface of the Earth.
Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harpers position on Kyoto:
“Kyoto is essentially a socialist scheme to suck money out of wealth-producing nations.”
“As economic policy, the Kyoto Accord is a disaster. As environmental policy it is a fraud”
Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harpers position on Climate Scientists:
“This may be a lot of fun for a few scientific and environmental elites in Ottawa, but ordinary Canadians from coast to coast will not put up with what this will do to their economy and lifestyle”
Jon says: February 14, 2012 at 7:00 am
[There are too many clowns here who think that cutting back on scientific research is a good thing]
Jon, they are not cutting spending on science, just ‘Climate Science’.
Sometimes you can tell something is not science if you see the work ‘science’ tacked on to the end. For example, these are science:
Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Medicine, Geology, Meteorology, Zoology…
Whereas these are not:
Political Science, Environmental Science, Climate Science…
@ RockyRoad
@ dp
February 13, 2012 at 10:40 pm
dp says:
February 13, 2012 at 8:04 pm
Hopefully they will use the savings for GM studies to find grains that will grow north of the 49th.
Snow peas is the only thing that comes to mind.”
Guys…this is an easy fix…you just plant winter wheat…in May…no problem.
Franco Einaudi, retired, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, adds, “Recent comments by Canada at the Durban Climate Change Summit have added to the concern that Canada’s environmental commitment may be changing.”
This guy is really, really sharp. Obviously he reads the parlimentary output of Canada on a regular basis. /sarc off
Jon says:
February 14, 2012 at 7:00 am
There are too many clowns here who think that cutting back on scientific research is a good thing … scary!
Yep, one clown too many, eh Jon 😉
wayne Job says:
February 14, 2012 at 1:55 am
What a terrible shame that these “scientists and researchers” at cutting edge computer games are about to be asked to find new employment. Canada I am jealous, we still have an idiot in charge in OZ.
and the rest of the western world. I cannot remember a period in history when so many half-witted idiots managed to take power. Well done Mr Harper and all Canadians.
Second, you can’t really blame Canada for the Montreal Protocol, since Montreal is only vaguely a part of Canada anyway
Montréal, c’est Canada ! Mais elle n’est jamais Américain. Dont, americans butt out of their business. Hopefully the american people will come to their senses in this year’s election and turn back to the american dream rather than the african nightmare.
I still love the disconnect between the climate scientists that claim the arctic ozone hole is caused by cold temperatures…….and the CFC ozone people who swear the Antarctic ozone hole could only be caused by man, and even more funny that the climate changers claim “it causes the cooling” in antarctica. Got that, cold causes ozone hole, but the opposite happens at the other pole and ozone hole causes cool. But there is no other explanation for the ozone hole in antarctica than man. Somebody has to be wrong.
Urederra says:
February 14, 2012 at 3:59 am
The fact that Chlorine oxide has been found in polar areas does not demonstrate each and every process you have described above,
Correct. People forget there is a volcano on the west pennisula of Antarctica that puts out chlorine gas. There was a volcano erupting in Alaska recently too.
Environmental Defence Canada, and the Canadian Institute for Environmental Law and Policy have posted that data pollution emissions in Canada have risen, while the US EPA reports the US pollutants have substantially declined.
Example:Oh Canada flushes some 200 billion liters of raw sewage directly into natural waterways every year, from the St. Lawrence River to the Strait of Juan de Fuca and the Pacific Ocean.
People seem to have blinders on when it comes to Canadian pollution. They want to cut environmental science because it is economically a plus.
Stephen Richards says:
Yep, one clown too many, eh Jon 😉
Are you saying you’re a clown Stephen?
Andrew30 says:
Jon, they are not cutting spending on science, just ‘Climate Science’.
Unfortunately, this is not the case … cut backs also involve research on pesticide use, aquatic pollutants etc. See here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2011/10/23/ns-environment-canada-dartmouth-cuts.html
http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/08/04/hundreds-of-environment-canada-jobs-to-be-cut/
Of course, they always invoke “Prop 13 revenge” .. that is, they highlight the worse possible outcomes (of course with Prop 13, they invoked the worst possible outcomes just to piss off folks the most).
Ach mein Gott! Take their current funding away and they may fail to find more reasons for future funding. Shocked I tell ye. Why it’s almost as though they live like any other parasitic organism.
Andrew30 says:
February 14, 2012 at 7:15 am
“Jon, they are not cutting spending on science, just ‘Climate Science’.
Sometimes you can tell something is not science if you see the work ‘science’ tacked on to the end. For example, these are science:
Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Medicine, Geology, Meteorology, Zoology…
Whereas these are not:
Political Science, Environmental Science, Climate Science…”
You missed a big one. “Conservation Biology.” This new pseudoscience is “mission oriented” and based on the false “Mass Extinction” assumption that everything is doomed. Thus they are missionaries, and the so-called science they use is based on models and the same tricks that the AGW Team uses. Thus they make a perfect partner for them. This was the “science’ that conveniently ‘determined’ that polar bears were doomed and as the UN gang switches to the ‘Biodiversity Crisis’ the depths of this garbage will become more prominent.
Amazing. At the very least, I would think “skeptics” would support the preservation of long-term recording stations.
Brandon C.
“I still love the disconnect between the climate scientists that claim the arctic ozone hole is caused by cold temperatures…….and the CFC ozone people who swear the Antarctic ozone hole could only be caused by man, and even more funny that the climate changers claim “it causes the cooling” in antarctica. Got that, cold causes ozone hole, but the opposite happens at the other pole and ozone hole causes cool. But there is no other explanation for the ozone hole in antarctica than man. Somebody has to be wrong.”
If only you took the time to look into the actual science…
Ozone destruction is enhanced in the presence of polar stratospheric clouds, which provide a surface for chlorine-catalyzed ozone loss (the reactions occur much faster than in the gas phase). Photolysis of chlorine reservoir species on the clouds during spring releases the chlorine radical, which goes on to destroy ozone.
The clouds only form at VERY cold temperatures, which primarily occur only in Antarctica, see: http://www.theozonehole.com/images/ozoned36.jpg
This is why the ozone hole was so significant in the Antarctic but not the Arctic – it normally does not get cold enough on a large enough scale in the Arctic stratosphere for PSC’s to form in any great concentration. However, (I believe it was) last year’s unusually cold Arctic stratosphere was cold enough to form a large number of PSC’s and, in effect, create an ozone hole similar in magnitude to that observed in the Antarctic.
As far as “ozone hole causes cool”, it would make intuitive sense that a negative ozone anomaly would cause a local cooling – ozone is a UV-absorber, and it is the absorption of solar radiation by ozone in the stratosphere that gives it its temperature structure.
“Canada stands to lose an entire community of highly respected scientists who are experts on ozone and climate if further proposed budget cuts go through,” said Jennifer Logan, senior research fellow in atmospheric chemistry, Harvard University.
Not sustainable in the truest sense of the word.
Because they are publicly funded and heavily subsidized by their government, Canadian universities are generally less expensive than American private schools and some public universities, even for international students who pay more than their Canadian counterparts.
http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2008/12/25/canada_passport_to_higher_ed_lower_cost/?page=full
From what I’ve seen of Canadian station data, the problem lies not in cessation of collection, but in the lack of diligence in reporting data in readily useful form. Far too many of their station records only seem terminate by the 1980’s or 1990’s, while those that are brought current in the GHCN data base have been arbitrarily adjusted beyond resemblence to actual measurements. If one makes the effort to bring Canadian non-urban records up to date, few show any significant warming over the 20th century. Contrary to Anne Thompson’s lamentations, that may be the real reason for record curtailments.
Urederra says in part at February 14, 2012 at 3:59 am:
> Formation rate is high at the equator but 0 at the poles during the winter
> because there is not ozone forming UV radiation during the 6 months nights
> at the poles. That is why the so-called ozone hole grows during the winter, …
(And not organic Cl compounds and stratospheric clouds being the problem)
If this was the explanation, then polar ozone holes would worsen most rapidly
no later than winter solstice and peak before the sunny half of the year starts.
Meanwhile, the Antarctic ozone hole last Antarctic winter had hardly started
forming until 5-6 weeks after winter solstice, grew most rapidly around and
shortly before spring equinox, and bottomed out about 2.5 weeks after spring
equinox. In most years, the Antarctic ozone hole is greatest shortly after spring
equinox, and grows most rapidly well after winter solstice. Polar stratospheric
clouds, especially also with sunlight, is a major factor in ozone depletion.
> Besides, the so-called ozone layer is between 15 km and 55 km over sea
> level, Clouds and cloud ice crystals cannot to that far up.
> http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/mtr/cld/cldtyp/home.rxml
This basic primer on clouds does not mention nacreous clouds, which form
in the stratosphere, almost entirely in polar areas in winter and early spring.
>Moreover, a molecule of CCl4 weights 12+35*4 = 152, It is way heavier than
>N2 =28 or O2 = 32 It does not go up, it remains down, just like the infamous
>radon = 222 remains in the ground. H2 = 2 or He = 4 go up, it is gravity at work.
When there is a major volcanic explosion, dust particles get into the
stratosphere. Ones weighing millions of times more than ozone molecules
stay there for a year or two. Even stratiform clouds at the tropopause with
wind mainly horizontal and only slight updraft have no problem lifting ice
crystals weighing trillions of times as much as ozone molecules. Nacreous
clouds at 15-25 km don’t fall out of the sky. Radon does not get far in large
part because its halflife is about 5 days.
> And by the way, and that is for everybody, stop saying ozone layer There
> is no such thing. … There is not such thing as a layer made of ozone.
> It is a convenient figure for those who support the CFCs ban, since without
> layer, there cannot be a hole.
I am well aware of the ozone layer is only a small fraction of 1% ozone. I am
also aware of the ozone layer being called such at least as far back in the
1950’s, when there was low concern about protecting it from manmade pollution.
There is an interesting article describing how rich American charities and foundations fund/influence/control green groups in Canada [link below]. If this research is important then these organisations are certainly rich enough to fund it.
http://www.nationalpost.com/m/opinion/charities%20fund%20Greens/6031047/story.html
“dp says: February 13, 2012 at 8:04 pm
Hopefully they will use the savings for GM studies to find grains that will grow north of the 49th.”
One step ahead of you already as the U of Sask has been doing very cool stuff with haskap berries that can grow right up in climage zone 2 conditions! They have a whole orchard of different crops that grow in adverse conditions.
http://prairietechpropagation.com/
Way lower glycemic load and way higher nutritional density than grains and taste better to boot.
Climatology budget cuts, coming to a Pennsylvania university near you!
Back to you, Anne Thompson….
The Montreal Protocol has done what it set out to do, control and cease manmade emmissions of ozone depleting gases. I would ask why do we need to continue any more research than an overall skeleton survey via satellites? The problem as originally outlined by the scientists has been solved.
The latest reports from UNEP don’t show any surprises or anything worth investigating further in my view.
Nevertheless one or two things do cause me to wonder what it was all about.
1. As far as I can tell ozone depletion is much the same as when the Montreal Protocol came into being. In 1987 when it was brought into operation the scientists said we needed to stop ozone depletion or this would lead to global destruction. Should I be dead by now?
2. Within the UNEP report comes the facinating admission from the scientists “that the natural processes that cause ozone depletion are not well understood” , quite amazing as the experts have been for 25 years of looking at the issue with no pressure on funding.
Well…
Maybe a vacation to Canada is in order… They seem to have gotten a bit of reality awareness lately.
I also suspect that some of The Team may be seeing a bit of “writing on the walls”. As we accelerate our slide to the cold side (pretty much ‘baked into the cake’ given the solar cycle lag time and the PDO et.al. shifts) for the next 20 years, it will only get “worse” for them…
I’m sure the folks in Venice dealing with ice on the canals and the folks looking at snow in Tunesia are NOT going to be thinking “Global Warming”… Ukrainians getting relief by helicopter too…
This is only the beginning… but a welcome one.
So, a bunch of Leftists were aborted?
Seems to be some money for this:
Environment Canada – Minister Kent Announces International Climate Funding:
http://tinyurl.com/7r2pgnc
Canada’s contribution is for three years. An initial contribution of $400 million is already starting to produce results and today, the Government is announcing further investments of almost $600 million for 2011-2012 and 2012-2013.
Here’s where the money went in 2010-11:
http://www.climatechange.gc.ca/default.asp?lang=En&n=5F50D3E9-1
“As part of our commitment to provide our fair share of fast-start financing, Canada is contributing $1.2 billion in new and additional climate change financing for the fiscal years 2010/11, 2011/12 and 2012/2013. This is Canada’s largest ever contribution to support international efforts to address climate change. It is focused on three priority areas – adaptation, clean energy, and forests and agriculture.”
Data collecting is surely useful in some cases. However, I’m getting the feeling that we are concentrating on measurements more than on the actual solutions to enviromental problems. Just have a look at Syncrude Tailings Dam, one of the vastest structures in Canada, and all the toxic dangers it imposes on the town of Fort McMurray, the surrounding wildlife, the pedosphere and the atmosphere. It is said that it causes as much greenhouse gas per day as 1.3 million cars. The number is alarming, it tells us we should do something to change the condition but are we really trying to make a difference? Now there we are with our global warming and ozone depletion. At least the people who did the measurement got some money for it…