Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
The Duke of Edinburgh, the husband of Queen Elizabeth, has spoken out about windmills, and he’s not happy at all. Chris Huhne, the UK Energy Secretary, has said that people who oppose windmills are “curmudgeons and fault-finders”. He finds windmills “elegant” and “beautiful”.
Figure 1. A photo of elegant windmills beautifying the otherwise inelegant, ugly UK countryside. PHOTO SOURCE
The Duke, on the other hand, thinks that windmills are an absolute disgrace. Of course that’s my translation, because being royalty, the Duke would never say something as direct and crude as that. The man who tried to sell His Dukeness the windmills reports on the conversation as follows:
“He said they were absolutely useless, completely reliant on subsidies and an absolute disgrace,” said Mr Wilmar. “I was surprised by his very frank views.”
Hmmm … well, I guess royalty may not be that much different after all. The article continues:
Mr Wilmar said his attempts to argue that onshore wind farms were one of the most cost-effective forms of renewable energy received a fierce response from the Duke.
“He said, ‘You don’t believe in fairy tales do you?’” said Mr Wilmar. “He said that they would never work as they need back-up capacity.”
The Duke won’t abide windmills on his estate. I don’t blame him one bit, I commend his understanding of the situation, and I admire his frankness. The Duke’s eldest son, the Artist Currently Known As Prince, has agreed with the Duke’s position. He won’t allow windmills on his estate either, despite The Artist’s well-known alarmism about CO2. Funny how that works, even royalty believes in NIMBY.
Actually, though, none of that was what caught my eye about the Telegraph article. The part that made my hair stand on end was this throwaway line from just before the end:
Two-thirds of the country’s wind turbines are owned by foreign companies, which are estimated to reap £500 million a year in subsidies.
Yikes! I’m too gobsmacked to even comment on that, other than to say I guess we know how they lost their Empire … not that the US is far behind …
w.
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The Duke is known to speak his mind.
Foreign companies, ah yes, and we’d like to know from which countries. Maybe no surprises there though.
Well! I hears this on the radio this morning. It’s now 8.17 pm here so I’ve had time to ponder this remarkable statement. All I can say is “Well done, Prince Philip”. It would be interesting to eavesdrop on the next conversation he has with his son Charles!
Is it possible that someone in our government might now just think, for a change, before committing multi-billions of pounds sterling to yet more windmills that require constant backup from conventional sources? I fear not. They seem to be congenitally disposed to absorbing nonsense rather than engineering facts.
Anyway, it might just be a start.
Robin
Yeah, the Duke has never held back with his views in the past so his outspokenness is no surprise. What is a surprise to me is that he is actually against these things. And even more surprising to me is that Charles is against them. I always thought that our Royals, being good Bilderbergers, were completely pro all of that stuff. NIMBY indeed.
The astounding thing is the Duke of Edinburgh has been presiding over the WWF in various capacities for 40 years. From the official royal website:
“Prince Philip was the first President of World Wildlife Fund – UK (WWF) from its formation in 1961 to 1982, and International President of WWF (later the World Wide Fund for Nature) from 1981 to 1996. He is now President Emeritus of WWF.”
Much squirming must be going on in WWF Central at the moment.
The enlightened elite class.
One day the people will get tired of subsidizing this fiasco. The high energy cost hurts people.
In regards to “science” it takes 1,450 tons of coal to make the steel and rebar for the footings for one tower. It takes several tons Natural Gas to make the concrete for the base
The staggering amount of CO2 produced before a single unit of electricity is produced. Then there is the cost of building many more ugly transmission lines for a gathering grid. The wind electric company doesn’t participate in the grid. They sell the electric at the turbine.
1 year ago we had 3 weeks of nearly zero wind in the midwest near a huge wind farm. The A/C bills would have been trippled if the electric had been bought from the turbines.
Bruce of Newcastle says:
November 20, 2011 at 12:29 pm
Indeed, Bruce, that was my first thought.
w.
I totally agree with his views as every time I open my door I have to look at the wind farm in the picture and the 25% that’s broken down every week !
Willis – good article, but just out of interest, can you tell me how the electricity is conducted away from these, or any other, wind-turbines?
Prince Philip is well known for speaking his mind. He may be getting on a bit, but I think he is still pretty sharp. As far as NIMBY is concerned, he sees the whole of the UK as his back yard.
I wouldn’t let his association with the WWF affect your view of him too much. Initially, it was a worthwhile organization doing good work. Like many such organizations, it has been infiltrated by people who use it to further their own political causes rather than its original aims.
Bruce of Newcastle says:
November 20, 2011 at 12:29 pm
The astounding thing is the Duke of Edinburgh has been presiding over the WWF in various capacities for 40 years. From the official royal website:
“Prince Philip was the first President of World Wildlife Fund – UK (WWF) from its formation in 1961 to 1982, and International President of WWF (later the World Wide Fund for Nature) from 1981 to 1996. He is now President Emeritus of WWF.”
Much squirming must be going on in WWF Central at the moment.
Bruce. I think that at one time the WWF, Greenpeace Etc.. really were decent well intended protectors of Nature and our Natural world. I used to support them in their efforts. But they have become untrustworthy Eco fascists and frauds, that has lost the support of nature loving people like me and I suspect the wise old Duke.
Given that the husband of the ruler of the country has announced his abhorrence of wind turbines, in direct contravention of the government of the day’s position, you would think that the national news might be interested. This sort of thing is quite dodgy, politically – sections of government publicising deep disagreement. It is instructive to see what the BBC are saying about wind turbines. Are they mentioning this? Have a look… http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15295769
Teh windmills are better looking than oil wells that’s for sure. Teh windmills don’t smell bad like oil wells either. Developed oil fields are nas-tee.
The Yaohnanen tribe worship the Duke, rather that than Gaia any day.
Part of Philip’s job is to say things the Queen can’t.
Re subsidy, yikes indeed!
For those not in the know, the mechanism for this subsidy is cunningly hidden. I recall it works something like this, with apologies if not quite right. Wholesalers of electricity have to obtain Renewable Obligation Certificates for a quantity being a percentage of their sales (Mwhrs). This percentage is set by UK Government and is rising. The source of the certificates are those who generate using renewables, essentially wind. If the wholesaler gets not enough, he is “fined” (can pay his way out). So, there is a market and value for ROC.
This has two consequences: 1) the windmill operator gets loads of £ for his ROCs. Windmills, in business case terms, are as much about printing ROC as about making ‘lec.
2) the wholesaler has cost inputs – the costs of the ‘lec and the ROC – that just go into his prices to the retailers so the end user doesn’t see them/know how much he is paying for the wind mill dream. No subsidy from Government, which is another cunning feature.
And despite 3731 Mw installed, say 2000 windmills, they are giving this moment only 916 Mw or about 2.3% of a lowish total UK demand, but are blighting the landscape, etc. Wonder how long before gearbox failures etc cut this even more. And Chris Huhne (the responsible Minister) wants some 20% of capacity from renewables. Double yikes then! 20,000 windmills anybody?
said Mr Wilmar. “I was surprised by his very frank views.”
Well not many people in the UK are surprised by the duke’s ‘frank views’, he does not waste time on being politically correct, for which many of us are thankful.
Isn’t that photo dramatically altered with Photoshop?
Well, we know that HRH the Duke has had strongly held – and occasinally very clearly expressed – views for decades; he was in the Royal Navy for many years [1939 to 1950/51, I think, as an active officer/commander].
Against the bird-choppers – fair enough; he knows they harm (avian) wildlife, as well as needing turning back-up using fossil fuels.
I have no problem with combined wind and solar – plus battery back-up – for isolated sites – road signs, railway kit between stations [especially as the badboy sseem happy to steal the cables].
Pure wind – as Huhne – the Rt Hon Christopher huhne, P.C., M.P. – seems not to appreciate is simply not adequate. It needs stand-by generatingpower; it chops up birds; it only works when it is windy (but not t o o windy).
In Britain, we need to look much more at tidal power – with 15 knot [27 kph] tidal streams, at spring tide, in the Pentland Firth, the strait betwen Orkney and Scotland, we should be able to generate a bit of power – and, perhaps, ocean current power. If we do – consult with the seamen about fouling the sea with kit, please.
Dave Springer ,
You’d probably feel differently if you were receiving royalties on an oil well . I sure would , in fact I might just find them elegant and beautiful .
Dave Springer says:
November 20, 2011 at 12:52 pm
I’ll tell the Duke not to allow any oil wells on his estate either …
But in any case, Dave, I’m quite willing to do without wind power, and not just because they are ugly as sin. Take them all away.
Are you willing to do the same, to do without fossil power, Dave? Or do you just want to bitch and complain loudly about the “nas-tee” oil wells, while at the same time burning that very oil at a rate of knots to sustain your standard of living?
I thought so … your kind of green hypocrisy turns my stomach. Me, I’m not the kind of man like you, the kind that will happily eat the meat while blaming the butcher for being “nas-tee” …
w.
O H Dahlsveen says:
November 20, 2011 at 12:37 pm
Plain old garden variety power lines, in the case of these plants underground lines from the looks of it.
w.
Great Scot, he’s got it!
The Duke has it right – the fatal flaw of wind power is that it requires almost 100% backup capacity from conventional power stations.
This is even true of very large, country-wide distributed grids.
Willis, to verify, check Figure 7 of the E.On Netz Wind Report 2005 that I emailed you today, which refers to Germany’s power grid.
E.On Netz was in 2005, and may still be, the largest wind power generator in the world.
(Quote)
Fig 7. Falling substitution capacity
The more wind power capacity is in the grid, the lower the percentage of traditional generation it can replace.
As wind power capacity rises, the lower availability of the wind farms determines the reliability
of the system as a whole to an ever increasing extent. Consequently the greater reliability of
traditional power stations becomes increasingly eclipsed.
As a result, the relative contribution of wind power to the guaranteed capacity of our supply system up to the year 2020 will fall continuously to around 4% (FIGURE 7).
In concrete terms, this means that in 2020, with a forecast wind power capacity of over 48,000MW (Source: dena grid study), 2,000MW of traditional power production can be replaced by these wind farms.
(End of quote)
Also, wind power can dangerously destabilize the entire power grid. See Figure 5 & 6 in the same report.
(Quote)
FIGURE 5 shows the annual curve of wind power feed-in in the E.ON control area for 2004, from which it is possible to derive the wind power feed-in during the past year:
1. The highest wind power feed-in in the E.ON grid was just above 6,000MW for a brief period, or
put another way the feed-in was around 85% of the installed wind power capacity at the time.
2. The average feed-in over the year was 1,295MW, around one fifth of the average installed wind power capacity over the year.
3. Over half of the year, the wind power feed-in was less than 14% of the average installed wind
power capacity over the year.
The feed-in capacity can change frequently within a few hours. This is shown in FIGURE 6,
which reproduces the course of wind power feedin during the Christmas week from 20 to 26
December 2004.
Whilst wind power feed-in at 9.15am on Christmas Eve reached its maximum for the year
at 6,024MW, it fell to below 2,000MW within only 10 hours, a difference of over 4,000MW. This corresponds to the capacity of 8 x 500MW coal fired power station blocks. On Boxing Day, wind power feed-in in the E.ON grid fell to below 40MW.
Handling such significant differences in feed-in levels poses a major challenge to grid operators.
(End of quote)
This reliable information has been available for years, and has been ignored. I know this is true, because I published it online and in newspaper articles, starting in 2002.
A trillion dollars has been squandered worldwide on climate hysteria, much of it on nonsensical wind power. Jesus wept.
Dave says:
November 20, 2011 at 12:51 pm
Bruce. I think that at one time the WWF, Greenpeace Etc.. really were decent well intended protectors of Nature and our Natural world
============================================================
Dave they were alarmists before they even got a name……….
Otherwise why do it
The WWF was a spinoff of the IUCN, specifically to raise money, spend money, pay outrageous salaries
You don’t raise money by telling everyone “nothing to see here”
Finally some truth from across the AGW chasm:
Windmills are a losing proposition.
Sequel coming soon to your local web browser: Duke’n It Out in D.C. ☺
Dave Springer says:
November 20, 2011 at 12:52 pm
Teh windmills are better looking than oil wells that’s for sure. Teh windmills don’t smell bad like oil wells either. Developed oil fields are nas-tee.
Davie, you are completely ignorant of the relationship between wind turbines and oil wells. Only a tiny % of electricity produced use oil, 1-2%. They really having nothing to do with each other, of course since you believe wind turbines are related to oil wells, you also likely believe that soon we will all be driving electric cars and not using oil.