By Steve Goddard
Readers will surely recall when WUWT was the first climate news outlet to publish this story:
Oh no! Greenland glacier calves island 4 times the size of Manhattan
In it, an admonition: “Watch the media now as this story is only about an hour old.” So far the media (and foot in mouth politicians) haven’t disappointed in their zeal to make this “business as usual” for a glacier into a poster child.
Image from The Arc
Professor Andreas Muenchow became a media celebrity this week with his quote about an iceberg in Greenland being “four times the size of Manhattan.” This iceberg has become a poster child for global warming, even though a much larger one broke off the same glacier 50 years ago.
From the Kansas City Star
Researchers last week spotted a 100-square-mile chunk of ice that calved off from the great Petermann Glacier in Greenland’s far northwest. It was the most massive ice island to break away in the Arctic in a half-century of observation. The huge iceberg appeared just five months after an international scientific team published a report saying ice loss from the Greenland ice sheet is expanding up its northwest coast from the south. Changes in the ice sheet “are happening fast, and we are definitely losing more ice mass than we had anticipated,” said NASA’s Isabella Velicogna.
Others took the misinformation one step further:
In what he calls ‘a manifestation of warming’, Dr Richard Bates who helps monitor the Greenland ice said he was ‘amazed’ to see such a huge area of ice break off the Petermann glacier. Reported in the Telegraph a team from the University of St Andrews said that a huge 106 square mile chunk of ice had broken away at the start of August. This is the largest ever seen to come from Greenland. The US National Ice Center has named the iceberg the ‘Petermann Ice Island’. They also report that the Petermann glacier, which is located in North West Greenland to the East of the Nares Strait and one of the largest in the Northern hemisphere, has retreated back to a level not observed since 1962.
What the press is not widely reporting is that Professor Muenchow also said :
years of data on the glacier itself show that after this month’s event, the mass of ice is still, on average, discharging about the same amount of water it usually does – some 600 million cubic meters a year, or about 220,000 Olympic-sized swimming pools. “Even a big piece like this over 50 years is not that significant. It’s just the normal rate,” he said. Muenchow warns people not to jump to conclusions. “An event like this, this specific event, all flags go immediately up, ‘Oh, let’s explain this by global warming.’ I cannot support that,” he said.
So what we know is that the glacier is where it was 50 years ago, a bigger chunk broke off 50 years ago, and the rate of ice moving to the sea has not changed. There is absolutely no story here. Our warming friends get more desperate by the day. It is pathetic.
Theres none so blind as cannot see! everything is as they expect it to be, for them there is no other way.
I propose naming it Markey Iceland §.-)
Hmm, I think you’re on to a scoop here. Penguins on a Greenland iceberg. What won’t they think of next.
I particularly like the Arctic penguins. A new species perhaps?
The “green industry” has tied it’s wagon to the global CAGW myth which is rapidly loosing it’s political steam. They stand to loose big time if cap and tax legislation or EPA regulations are not enacted. There will be a lot of political issue ads and bad “science” releases between now and November trying to keep CAGW politicians in office. It’s not about science. It’s about research funds and carbon offsets.
Summer of the Shark meet the Generation of Global Alarmism.
Yes , it is pathetic . But did you expect less than the worst in media coverage ?
I’m tempted to make a blacklist of all those experts who interpreted this event as a sign of CAGW…
Why dont they come check this out at wuwt?They could have been set straight before they made fools of themselves
“It was the most massive ice island to break away in the Arctic in a half-century of observation.”
Interesting how just adding “of observation” to that sentence makes it sound like: In all the time we’ve been observing the Arctic, this is the biggest ever.” Sounds a lot more dramatic than: “The last time this happened was 50 years ago when a much larger one broke off” What he wrote was true, but readers will be misled, perhaps intentionally?
ANY attempt to get the ‘cattle’ to stampede … pitiful state we find ‘science’ in today …
.
Whatever happened to having honor and integrity? The warmers and the lap dogs in the media have neither.
Here is DMI’s take on the situation:
http://translate.google.dk/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dmi.dk%2Fdmi%2Fhaard_opbremsning_i_arktisk_istab&sl=da&tl=en&hl=&ie=U
I know it is a lousy translation by Google, but it is too late for me to do it myself.
Istab = Loss of ice
Isudbredelse = ice extent
Isdrift = ice drift
Make no mistake – DMI has both feet firmly planted in the Warmers’ camp.
selective editing a wonderful idea……
It’s a bit like splatter movies. The acting and the plot don’t matter as long as enough blood flows. News has become a subgenre of B movies.
Equals more grants for studying the Greenland ice sheet…. More careers cocooned in soft fluffy science where rose-tinted glasses are part of the uniform.
Penguins stranded on a mini-iceberg.
Heart-wrenching, but I’m not going to give up carbonated soda pop.
On a similar theme but different subject.
ABC radio in Australia stated that the floods in Pakistan
were “worst in the country’s history”… I wonder how many
of their listeners realize that Pakistan came into existence
in 1947?
It seems the warming interests have issued the MSM the same template article to write world wide: blame the fires in Russia, the monssoon in Pakistan as the latest “proof” that global warming is happening. Funny every article starts with the disclaimer that prudence is required BEFORE attributing these to AGW, but this is just what journalists are doing in the title of their articles…
They’re all jumping on this iceberg like a pack of starving wolves.
Giant Greenland iceberg a climate ‘warning sign’
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5inGfVX69zbp-Gs4_y0FEdtLKMLeA
AFP – Marlowe Hood – 5 hours ago
PARIS — A giant iceberg that snapped away from Greenland last week is a signal that global warming is causing the island’s continent-sized ice cap to melt …
Ice sheet in Greenland melting at record rate
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/7941035/Ice-sheet-in-Greenland-melting-at-record-rate.html
Telegraph.co.uk – Louise Gray – 9 hours ago
The Greenland ice sheet is melting at a record rate due to global warming, according to a British-led expedition currently taking measurements from the …
Greenland Ice Island Prompts Global Warming Debate
http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/Greenland-Ice-Island-Prompts-Global-Warming-Debate-100590574.html
Voice of America – Carla Babb – 19 hours ago
Heat waves, droughts and floods have been wreaking havoc across the globe in recent weeks, and now scientists say a 250 square kilometer island of ice has …
Scientist: Huge Greenland iceberg a sign of warming
http://www.ocregister.com/news/warming-261971-ice-greenland.html
OCRegister – Pat Brennan – 6 hours ago
When a massive ice island broke off Greenland last week, it looked quite familiar to UC Irvine climate researcher Eric Rignot. …
Greenland ice melts at record pace
http://www.economicvoice.com/greenland-ice-melts-at-record-pace/50012432#axzz0wWbOsXj2
The Economic Voice – Jeff Taylor – 12 hours ago
In what he calls ‘a manifestation of warming’, Dr Richard Bates who helps monitor the Greenland ice said he was ‘amazed’ to see such a huge area of ice …
Of course it’s pathetic, all they have left is pathos.
To people like this – Isabella or Bates, nothing existed prior to their birth.
That was my first reaction – it’s desperation.
yes, crop yields which are actually increasing are said to be catastrophicaly failing because of global warming.
glaciers, which are actually growing, are said to be collapsing because of global warming.
the warmist machine is really running with this calving incident, it is all over the press, perhaps the worst being at the guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/aug/10/greenland-ice-sheet-tipping-point
when in fact the ice sheet is growing, and we are obviously on the long (maybe rapidly steepening) descent into in the next glaciation
http://icecap.us/images/uploads/Icecaps_and_Glaciers_thumb.jpg
Anthony PS: I have a couple hours of 8mm color film my father took on a trip to Antarctica back in the ’50’s of giant icebergs when he was on a Navy icebreaker. If you are interested, email me.
In colder climates glaciers will tend to grow their tongues much further on the sea than in a warmer world. Eventually, they break off even if it is cold.
From:
http://www.unis.no/60_NEWS/6030_Archive_2007/n_31_10_07_svalbard_glaciers/Svalbard_glaciers_news_31102007.htm
“Calving and surging glaciers play a major role in delivering land ice to Arctic waters. Changes in calving frequency might impact sea transport, fisheries and oil exploration in the Arctic. However, these changes are poorly understood. A new Ph.D. project at UNIS aims at increasing the understanding of glacier changes in a shifting climate.”
Almost every credible source, I have found, begins with this “poorly understood” caveat. No kool-aid for the glaciologists.
Here, you can be among the first to report this:
NOAA: Second Warmest July and Warmest Year-to-Date Global Temperature on Record
August 13, 2010
The combined global land and ocean surface temperature made this July the second warmest on record, behind 1998, and the warmest averaged January-July on record. The global average land surface temperature for July and January–July was warmest on record. The global ocean surface temperature for July was the fifth warmest, and for January–July 2010 was the second warmest on record, behind 1998.
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2010/20100813_globalstats.html
The “bigger chunk” in 1962 was from the Ward Hunt Ice Shelf, northern Ellesmere Island in Canada. Is the Ward Hunt Ice Shelf considered part of the Petermann Glacier?
OMG! Is that us?! We are SO CUTE!
For more on Greenland see:
http://search.nasa.gov/search/search.jsp?nasaInclude=greenland
The media’s turned into a poitically correct new Chicken Little — The ice is melting! The ice is melting!
And they can always count on a few ethically challenged scientists to join in the chorus just to keep that AGW money machine pumping out the green. And those that don’t toe the propaganda line can be safely edited out.
He was my 2 cents worth on the matter.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/08/06/oh-no-greenland-glacier-calves-island-4-times-the-size-of-manhattan/#comment-449996
How Ice Islands were once reported…
THE ARGUS Wednesday 8 February 1911
VILLAGE ON ICE FLOE STRANDED NEAR ISLAND
HELSINGFORS, Feb. 7.
The ice floe upon which an entire fishing village has been carried from the neighbourhood of Bjorko Sound has become stranded near the island of Seibkar.
There are 253 men and a number of horses on the floe. Despite the fact that the temperature is 18deg. below zero, the fishermen refuse to abandon their huts and horses and an extraordinary fine catch of fish which they had secured. Their position is not dangerous at the present time.
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/10877416
I feel bound to inform you, brother Goddard of another enemy who also threatens the security of our Village. He is one professed glaciologist Konrad Steffen who claims to be of the University of Colorado, but who (on the side) is overseeing the Greenland section of a major report by the UN IPCC (Gasp!…the source of all climate lies) due in 2013.
He proclaims (by phone):
“It is a warning sign that we are seeing changes…..The ice sheet is continuing to lose volume at an accelerated rate…..We are now at 350 cubic kilometres (84 cubic miles) ice loss per year. That’s more than twice the ice in all the glaciers in the Alps….We used to say the south (of Greenland) was the active part (for ice loss), that we didn’t need to worry about the north. This is no longer true — the north has started to lose ice at the same rate…The ocean has a memory of years to decades — it takes a while before you see the change, but once it’s there it will stay ”
A said J.P. Steffensen, a University of Copenhagen glaciologist and field manager for a deep-drilled ice core project who will look at a key layer from 125,000 years ago reportedly said:
“We are keen on getting a record of this period because it was five degrees degrees Celsius (nine degrees Fahrenheit) warmer in Greenland than today [He noted: That rise is exactly what is predicted for the Arctic region by 2100 if average global temperatures go up by 2.0 or 3.0 Celsius (3.6 to 5.4 Fahrenheit) ]…You could say this is Nature’s own example of what we have coming for us with future global warming.”
This information was thus gleaned:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100813/sc_afp/climatewarminggreenlandglacier
So, just to be clear, here we are in range of arctic sea ice minimum (another month or so), tracking more than 6M km/2 of floating ice, and they’re having a hissy over ~260 km/2 of new floating ice? Is that right?
This article states: “This iceberg has become a poster child for global warming, even though a much larger one broke off the same glacier 50 years ago.”
GeoFlynx – The “much larger one” was from the Ward Hunt Ice Shelf (1962), northern Ellesmere Island in Canada. The Ward Hunt Ice Shelf in Canada is NOT the same as the nearby Petermann Glacier in Greenland.
Steve G., I think you need to take one for the team here. Send Revkin an email and tell him that if arctic minimum extent comes in at 5,500,000-5,500,260 km/2, we’ll still consider you to have missed because of the unfair recent addition.
Maybe that’ll chill them out.
This is a perfect example of why people are turning away from believing.
I say encourage them to do more of this.
“DMI has both feet firmly planted in the Warmers’ camp”
Aaah…Holger D. Wasn’t it better in the good old days?
http://ing.dk/artikel/82497-klimaforsker-vi-skulle-hele-tiden-sige-at-solen-spillede-en-stor-rolle
[Reply: Kindly post articles in English. Thanx.]
Idiot,
Scientists say a lot of things. If, might, could. They even pretend to know the future. Fortunately there are still enough sane people not buying into everything they say.
Now don’t you have a dinner date with Joe Romm?
geo @ 3:55 PM: Good question and, yes, that’s what they seem to be saying. NPR had a breathless account this afternoon of the catastrophe with some warmist “science” interlocutor explaining how even though the air isn’t warm enough to melt anything, the ocean is full of heat and eats away at the ice from below and it breaks off, plus Greenland is seeing all sorts of ponding of water on the ice cap which cuts its way through the several kilometers of cap (evoking images of an oxyacetylene torch on butter), and yes all this could and probably should be attributed to global warming. The advocacy requires constant close focus on a few events that can be posed as lurid or spectacular, and then surrounded with some generalization as if the same thing is happening everywhere. Think how disaster movies are made: a pornographic close-up of the fire starting or the building teetering or the wall of water rushing toward shore; then endless variants of same; then cut to faces of victims with frozen expressions of horror; repeat as needed.
It has nothing to do with the systematic and principled collection and interrogation of data over time and space.
Hmmmn… I wonder if the Associated Press will exaggerate and scare readers with their report? Let’s see …
Huge ice island could pose threat to oil, shipping
AP
This Aug. 5, 2010 satellite image provided by NASA shows an ice island that has broken off the Petermann Glacier in northern Greenland. A University o AP – This Aug. 5, 2010 satellite image provided by NASA shows an ice island that has broken off the Petermann …
By KARL RITTER, Associated Press Writer Karl Ritter, Associated Press Writer – Tue Aug 10, 5:55 pm ET
STOCKHOLM – An island of ice more than four times the size of Manhattan is drifting across the Arctic Ocean after breaking off from a glacier in Greenland.
Potentially in the path of this unstoppable giant are oil platforms and shipping lanes — and any collision could do untold damage. In a worst case scenario, large chunks could reach the heavily trafficked waters where another Greenland iceberg sank the Titanic in 1912.
It’s been a summer of near biblical climatic havoc across the planet, with wildfires, heat and smog in Russia and killer floods in Asia. But the moment the Petermann glacier cracked last week — creating the biggest Arctic ice island in half a century — may symbolize a warming world like no other.
“It’s so big that you can’t prevent it from drifting. You can’t stop it,” said Jon-Ove Methlie Hagen, a glaciologist at the University of Oslo.
Few images can capture the world’s climate fears like a 100-square- mile (260-sqare-kilometer) chunk of ice breaking off Greenland’s vast ice sheet, a reservoir of freshwater that if it collapsed would raise global sea levels by a devastating 20 feet (6 meters).
The world’s newest ice island already is being used as a powerful emblem in the global warming debate, with U.S. Rep. Edward Markey of Massachusetts suggesting it could serve as a home for climate change skeptics.
Researchers are in a scramble to plot the trajectory of the floating ice shelf, which is moving toward the Nares Strait separating Greenland’s northwestern coast and Canada’s Ellsemere Island.
If it makes it into the strait before the winter freeze — due to start next month — it would likely be carried south by ocean currents, hugging Canada’s east coast until it enters waters busy with oil activities and shipping off Newfoundland.
“That’s where it starts to become dangerous,” said Mark Drinkwater, of the European Space Agency.
The Canadian Ice Service estimates the journey will take one to two years. It’s likely to break up as it bumps into other icebergs and jagged islands. The fragments would be further ground down by winds and waves and would start to melt as they move into warmer waters.
“But the fragments may still be quite large,” warned Trudy Wohlleben, a Canadian ice forecaster, who first spotted the massive chunk of ice on satellite images last Thursday.
The chunks of ice could be large enough to threaten Canada’s offshore platforms in the Grand Banks off Newfoundland, said Wohlleben.
And, while it’s possible to redirect smaller icebergs, by towing them or spraying them with water cannons, “I don’t think they could do that with an iceberg this large,” she said. “They would have to physically move the rig.”
Moving an offshore platform is time-consuming and expensive — and very complicated in cases where they are fixed to the ocean floor.
While Greenland’s glaciers break off thousands of icebergs into Arctic waters every year, scientists say this ice island is the biggest in the northern hemisphere since 1962.
It contains enough freshwater to keep the Hudson River flowing for more than two years, said Andreas Muenchow of the University of Delaware.
The drifting ice sheet is likely to remain at the heart of the global warming discussion during its journey.
While experts say it’s difficult to directly tie the giant ice island to climate change because there are so many factors that affect glaciers in the area, the unusual event coincides with worrisome signs of warming in the Arctic.
Since 1970, temperatures have risen more than 4.5 degrees (2.5 degrees C) in much of the Arctic — much faster than the global average. In June the Arctic sea ice cover was at the lowest level for that month since records began in 1979, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.
The retreat of Greenland’s glaciers, which has accelerated in recent years, is one of the least understood pieces of the climate puzzle.
A team of climate scientists who visited the Petermann glacier last year, expecting it to crack then, is now planning another trip within weeks.
“We did leave behind a couple of time-lapse cameras and 11 GPS (devices). Now we are scrambling to get up there and recover the data,” said Jason Box, an expert on Greenland glaciers from the Byrd Polar Research Center at Ohio State University.
Box and two British researchers traveled to the glacier last year with Greenpeace activists who offered space aboard their ship, the Arctic Sunrise, to scientists studying climate change.
They were hoping to capture the event with cameras rolling, which would have been a powerful image just months before the Copenhagen climate talks that failed to produce a binding treaty to reduce heat-trapping gas emissions.
“It would have been nice if it had broken off last year,” said Melanie Duchin, who led that Greenpeace expedition. “I mean ice melting, it doesn’t get any simpler than that.”
Still, she finds it ironic that the Petermann breakup coincides with another catastrophe linked to fossil fuels. The Arctic Sunrise is now in the Gulf of Mexico, surveying the massive oil spill from the Deepwater Horizon blowout.
___
Associated Press Writer Rob Gillies in Toronto contributed to this report”
—…—…
Nah. No scare tactics or exaggerations here.
By the way, the “ice island” in question is INSIDE a narrow, twisting fjord, now about 3/4 – 1 mile from even the OPENING of the fjord in Greenland. But a so-called glaciologist is claiming it is in “open seas” ???? Is this a credible “expert” or does it represent the level of knowledge and real-world experience of today’s “average” CAGW-spouting glaciologists?
The “island” is no larger than Manhattan – which will permit it to BECOME a large iceberg – WHEN it gets out of the fjord – IF it can! – and WHEN it starts melting as it goes south (many hundreds of miles) towards the shipping lanes.
But right now? It’s trapped and can do nothing but melt. Or re-freeze into the tip of the glacier since the Arctic temperatures at 80 degrees north latitude (which cuts across north Greenland) are trending back towards 0.0 Celcius, and will go below freezing in about two more weeks.
The connection between the Greenland ice breakup and the Russian bog fires and the Amazon draughts and the Austrailian political situation and the Japanese economy and the heatwaves in the American southern states cannot be stressed enough. Everything that happens on this speck of dust in the middle of nowhere in this galexy so far, far away from anything really exciting in the universe is all connected. No ’bout a’doubt it!
They must be getting tired; I know I am!
http://www.youtube.com/user/10kthings#p/u/4/rz1V_piTsrc
The sad thing is that you could probably get a lot of cash donations to save the penguins of Petermann Island. I think I’ll start a foundation, hell, I might even score a federal grant. (blatant sarcasm – except for the getting donations part)
Given those are penguins that iceberg is from Antarctica, not Greenland. Not that the AGW crowd would notice. They will probably have a visual using polar bears for Antarctica in the next gloom, doom, and gore report.
“They also report that the Petermann glacier, which is located in North West Greenland to the East of the Nares Strait and one of the largest in the Northern hemisphere, has retreated back to a level not observed since 1962”
Well then how did it get bigger since 1962, so it could retreat back to where it was in 1962?
Hey Mike,
I’m impressed with your ability to parrot government statistics! However, I don’t think NOAA or NASA need your help with dissemination of their ‘official news’. They’ve got taxpayer-funded information officers and PR staff for that. At this late date, I think you should know better than to blindly accept press releases from any government agency. I think it was that radical anarchist, Albert Einstein, who once said something like: “Unquestioning acceptance of authority is the greatest enemy of the truth”. I think you may fall into this ‘unquestioning’ category.
And my 84-year old Mother watched this “news” on CNN and ate it all up – mega warming included. “OMG” was the gist of her reaction while on the phone today. Being’s she is an avid reader I’m sending her a copy of “State of Fear” tomorrow.
geo
What’s up with Revkin? I haven’t been following that thread.
More Ice Islands…including mention of one 60 miles by 40 miles!
http://abcnewswatch.blogspot.com/2010/08/more-ice-islands.html
RACookPE1978 says:
August 13, 2010 at 4:35 pm
… does it represent the level of knowledge and real-world experience of today’s “average” CAGW-spouting glaciologists…
yes
Too bad the continental US doesn’t calve off that festering cesspool known as D.C.
SSam @ 6:20. Ding ding ding ding! We have a thread winnah!
I have to ask a really dumb question. Isn’t it only ADVANCING glaciers that calve? I would think a retreating glacier wouldn’t calve but rather melt back from whence it came. This may, indeed, be an omen…but it seems as though it is a harbinger of advancing glaciers. Of course it might also be that’s it’s freakin’ AUGUST in the northern hemisphere!
Professor Muenchow’s scientific honesty and integrity….comes at a price:
From the Guardian:
“Muenchow told the briefing that over the last seven years he had only received funding to measure ocean temperatures near the Petermann Glacier for a total of three days.”
“He was also reduced, because of a lack of funding, to paying his own airfare and that of his students to they could join up with a Canadian icebreaker on a joint research project in the Arctic.”
Well there you have it.
He can’t get the funding?
Must be a good scientist.
Chris
Norfolk, VA, USA
Changes in the Arctic are happening fast, with Greenland pumping out vast quantities of glacial ice. The snow precipitation factor must really be hitting high gear, as that ice front that broke off was 15km further south just 3 years ago.
5km/year glacier flow indicates it was shoved much more than merely flowing.
Do the math on the 2 pics in the origininal thread here. Tell me my math is wrong.
And, if the frantic shoving of ice tongue isn’t enough, just this week, temperatures north 0f 80N fell below zero in what is turning out to be the coldest year on the DMI 80N record.
Look at the both of these quotes, from different news sources.
You decide for yourself, what is going on here:
Muenchow warns people not to jump to conclusions. “An event like this, this specific event, all flags go immediately up, ‘Oh, let’s explain this by global warming.’ I cannot support that,” he said.
[BLASPHEMY!! How dare he say that!!!]
AND
“Muenchow told the briefing that over the last seven years he had only received funding to measure ocean temperatures near the Petermann Glacier for a total of three days.”
[THREE DAYS!!]
“He was also reduced, because of a lack of funding, to paying his own airfare and that of his students to they could join up with a Canadian icebreaker on a joint research project in the Arctic.”
[I’ll bet Michael Mann never has to pay his own airfare.]
Chris
Norfolk, VA, USA
Curious @ 2:58 color film !
If you haven’t already recreated that to digital now would be a good time.
oMan says:at 4:18 pm “ . . . plus Greenland is seeing all sorts of ponding of water on the ice cap which cuts its way through the several kilometers of cap. . .”
Well, ponds beget trickles, and they become streams, and then rivers and then they produce a Moulin. Because of the noise made (the sound of a busy grain mill) such a melt-water cascade into a glacier is called “moulin” – using a French term.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moulin_(geology)
“A moulin or glacier mill is a narrow, tubular chute, hole or crevasse through which water enters a glacier from the surface. The term is derived from the French word for mill.”
A great old map.
Ice chart of Southern Hemisphere [cartographic material] : compiled from the voyages of Cook, 1772-5, Bellingshausen, 1819-21, Weddell, 1822-4, Foster, 1828-9, Biscoe, 1830-2, Balleny, 1839, D’Urville, 1839, Wilkes, 1839, and Ross, 1841-2-3. ; from the papers on Icebergs in the Southern Ocean, by Mr. Towson, 1855-59 ; from 12th no. Metereological papers (Board of Trade), 1865, and documents in the Hydrographic Office / prepared for publication by Staff Com. F.J. Evans, and G.E. McDougall, Staff R.N. Great Britain. Hydrography Dept. , London : Published at the Admiralty under the superintendence of Captn. G.H. Richards, R.N. Hydrographer, [1870]
View at: http://ll01.nla.gov.au/show.jsp?rid=000040974761
click “show” to view
A report at the link below mentions the previous ice island (with photo) and the comment that:
“Scientists are however bracing themselves for a monster berg five times bigger that could break away from the same source this summer. If that breakaway chunk remains whole it would form a huge mass. Bigger by far then most islands in the area. Currently it has a massive crack about one kilometre wide and 12 kilometres long.”
The story is about 1/3 rd of the way down the page:
http://waterwaysnews.com/ARCHIVE/25JUNE09/NEWSMAINPAGE/NEWSMAIN.html#BILLIONTONNEICEBERGSUM
The previous one lost half its mass in the first 2,000 km.
So, what’s up with the new (current) one? any pictures or maps?
So let me get this straight , climate scientists must cross every “t” and dot every “i”.
But you get to post pictures of birds that don’t live in Greenland , when writing about Greenland ?
I assume you mean the Ward Hunt Ice Shelf in 1962 which is located at Baffin Island , Canada , not Greenland.
Nice, mix ice shelves and outlet glaciers from different countries .
By the way the Ward Hunt is still breaking up ……
Baffin Island Ice Caps Shrink By 50 Percent Since 1950s, Expected To Disappear by Middle of Century
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080128113831.htm
Ward Hunt Ice Shelf, Largest In Northern Hemisphere, Has Fractured Into Three Main Pieces
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080415205350.htm
REPLY: before you go into an accusatory tizzy (oops too late) read the ORIGINAL PRESS RELEASE from the scientists that made the discovery and 1962 reference here:
http://www.udel.edu/udaily/2011/aug/greenland080610.html
“1:40 p.m., Aug. 6, 2010—-A University of Delaware researcher reports that an “ice island” four times the size of Manhattan has calved from Greenland’s Petermann Glacier. The last time the Arctic lost such a large chunk of ice was in 1962.”
– Anthony
Steve–
Oh, I just picked Revkin as an example of the MSM for my jape –substitute any byline from the heavy-breathing articles on this subject that you care to for the same intended effect.
Colorado Bob
Ummm…it is called a joke.
Anyway, haven’t you seen the Coke commercial with the Polar Bears and Penguins partying together?
University of Delaware –
You guys –
This would make this whole post a work of fiction.
REPLY: Yes there’s a lot of fiction flying around about this iceberg, mostly in the media and from clueless politicians, but I don’t see you complaining about things like this gem. Since you made no comment against this, I suppose you agree then? – Anthony
All I know is you guys said that the Peterman calved an ice berg ” 50 years ago ” , it didn’t. So “What’s Up With That” ?
We’re not discussing what some congressman said, we’re discussing the fact that you folks got a basic fact wrong, and I have the screen shots to prove it.
Why not use it rather than let it melt.All we need to do is add some sawdust and engines etc we could make the biggest cruise liner ever. Look up Pykrete and ice ships known as project Habbakuk. Fit it with a Thorium reactor to power the cooling plant and it would last for years, they don’t melt very quickly even in warmer seas!
And the whopper here about the Peterman calving a 230 sq. mile ice berg in 1962 when it didn’t.
I wonder if the glacier chunk breaking off might have more to do with an as yet unreported drop in sea level.
New description of AGW behaviour: “jumping on the
bandwaggoniceberg”starzmom: August 13, 2010 at 2:12 pm
I particularly like the Arctic penguins. A new species perhaps?
Relict of the Pleistocene megafauna, no doubt. That thar berg is the size of four Manhattans, so each of those beasts must be the size of three-point-six Chrysler Buildings…
“Could, would, should, may…”
The only word real scientists use in their statements is “IS”!
Anything else is bogus.
Muenchow warns people not to jump to conclusions. “An event like this, this specific event, all flags go immediately up, ‘Oh, let’s explain this by global warming.’ I cannot support that,” he said.
Chink!! Funding gone, pay your own air fare, man’s an idiot 😉 but honest. Now there’s novel for a climate scientist.
Now this has got to be pure coincidence surely or do you think that perhaps the move company The Aslyum have paid some marketing company to promote Assoc. Prof. Andrew Muenchow recent work?
I’ve just been watching cable TV and was a bit gobsmacked to find this move being shown on the the SyFy channel this morning.
http://www.cinematical.com/2010/07/28/titanic-ii-trailer-hits-threatens-to-sink-a-ship-and-hearts/
Yes, Titanic II is a disaster movie (due to be released on DVD in the US next week)which takes place in April 2012, 100 years since the sinking of the RMS Titanic. A new luxury cruise liner, the Titanic II, has been christened, and is soon to embark on her maiden voyage, on the same route the Titanic took 100 years before.
During the voyage, the effects of global warming cause a section of a carving glacier the size of Rhode island in Greenland to break off and to produce an enormous tsunami that sends an iceberg crashing into the Titanic II, leaving it to the same fate of her predecessor.
Here is the official trailer (QT required) and photos on the ‘The Asylum’ web site
http://www.theasylum.cc/product.php?id=174
and here it is on YouTube
Colorado Bob: August 14, 2010 at 12:59 am
And the whopper here about the Peterman calving a 230 sq. mile ice berg in 1962 when it didn’t.
He got it right the first time, though.
“The last time such a massive ice island formed was in 1962 when Ward Hunt Ice Shelf calved a 230 square-mile island, smaller pieces of which became lodged between real islands inside Nares Strait. Petermann Glacier spawned smaller ice islands in 2001 (34 square miles) and 2008 (10 square miles). In 2005, the Ayles Ice Shelf disintegrated and became an ice island (34 square miles) about 60 miles to the west of Petermann Fjord.”
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/08/06/oh-no-greenland-glacier-calves-island-4-times-the-size-of-manhattan/#more-23078
So this gaffe falls under the category of a “CRS Moment” rather than “deliberate whopper” — as one who also suffers from this debilitating (and the research to find a cure is sadly underfunded at the federal level — reflexively, I blame Bush) malady, I recognize the
*peers at watch*
It’s Saturday, why?
Ummmmmmm — could you repeat the question, please?
The photo makes me think of the alarmist penguins and their Lapp dogs huddling together on the last remnant of the continent of lies they constructed.
More on Peterman reality:
Re disinformation by RACook the route the ice island has to travel to reach the Nares strait is wide and straight not “narrow and twisting”, if anything delays its travels it will likely be inadequate depth.
Colorado Bob,
Is there some part of this statement which is confusing to you?
Ref – Marc Hendrickx says:
August 13, 2010 at 9:27 pm
“A great old map….”
________________________
Outstanding! GREAT is not true enough. This link may work better –
http://nla.gov.au/nla.map-rm1658
Colorado Bob,
Are you a “can’t see the forest because of one tree” kind of person?
tallbloke says:
August 14, 2010 at 1:02 am
If the sea levels are indeed dropping, the Panama & Suez Canals are in shallow trouble.
Colorado Bob: August 13, 2010 at 10:39 pm
This would make this whole post a work of fiction.
Using that line of logic, if you have a single hair on your body, then you are a sasquatch.
Colorado Bob: August 13, 2010 at 10:39 pm
This would make this whole post a work of fiction.
If one error makes a document a “work of fiction” then the IPCC report is completely negated dozens of times over.
“Box and two British researchers traveled to the glacier last year with Greenpeace activists who offered space aboard their ship, the Arctic Sunrise, to scientists studying climate change.
They were hoping to capture the event with cameras rolling, which would have been a powerful image just months before the Copenhagen climate talks that failed to produce a binding treaty to reduce heat-trapping gas emissions.
“It would have been nice if it had broken off last year,” said Melanie Duchin, who led that Greenpeace expedition. “I mean ice melting, it doesn’t get any simpler than that.”
Still, she finds it ironic that the Petermann breakup coincides with another catastrophe linked to fossil fuels. The Arctic Sunrise is now in the Gulf of Mexico, surveying the massive oil spill from the Deepwater Horizon blowout.” (? ironic… how?)
A bunch of purportedly non-biased “climatologists” team up with green piece radicals to produce a little climate theatre in order to influence global politics. They seek to portray a normal event as some kind of proof of an impending klimate katastrophe, but mother nature didn’t cooperate in the con game.
The question for the warmists is, would it have been justified to use explosives to help mother nature along a little bit? Afterall timing is everything. You have to break some eggs in order to ‘save the pwanet’.
Walter Cronkite lives on in journalism. Someone wrote when he said, at the end of his broadcast, thats the way it is it was what he wanted it to be. Hopefully that attitude is not bleeding over into science.
stevengoddard says:
August 14, 2010 at 6:53 am
Colorado Bob: August 13, 2010 at 10:39 pm
This would make this whole post a work of fiction.
If one error makes a document a “work of fiction” then the IPCC report is completely negated dozens of times over.
GeoFlynx – I had been trying to point out earlier that the Ward Hill Ice shelf in Canada and The Petermann Glacier in Greenland were not the same. However, I do support Steve Goddard that this fact has not been made very clear in the recent press. Serious climate scientists have not made much of a fuss over the Petermann calving in the sense that a single solitary event, taken out of context, does not in itself form a “proof”. I’m afraid that the world press has over reacted on this one.
Readers will surely recall when WUWT was the first climate news outlet to publish this story:
Why do you lie?
[Reply: With a comment like that you need to provide a verifiable citation. ~dbs, mod.]
Phil. says:
August 14, 2010 at 5:15 am
Re disinformation by RACook the route the ice island has to travel to reach the Nares strait is wide and straight not “narrow and twisting”, if anything delays its travels it will likely be inadequate depth.
—…—…—
But you claim it’s a “straight path” to the sea?
Look at the satellite photos. The ice island is a long block, approximately 2.5 times longer than it is wide. It is in a fjord averaging only 15% wider than the ice island’s width, so unless the ice island moves directly and perfectly (only +/- 7.5 percent rotation allowed while randomly drifting in the current out of the fjord) in the centerline of the fjord north for 3x its length, it will jam in the Peterman Glacier outlet while it continues to melt. Then, all the sea ice chucks and glaciers between end of the fjord and the sea has to move out of the way, or it will jam between the walls of the Nara Strait and the jammed in sea ice – which will also block movement of the ice island.
Then the ice island must rotate 75 degrees clockwise, then stop rotating or it will jam again against the wall of the Strait. Then it must move 5x its length to reach the packed-in sea ice to the northeast that could be considered “open water” – if it weren’t covered by glaciers. There, however, movement will not be realistically restricted, and the wild press release comments (2-3 years from now?) begin to be relevant
However, even in the somewhat wider Nara Strait, the ice island must either be smaller (melting away) or not rotating at all, or it will still jam into the walls of the strait.
RACookPE1978,
May I make a prediction? Thank you:
I predict Phil. will not say, “I was wrong,” but will either jabber away trying to hide that fact, or will simply disappear for a while.
dbs, here’s the citation, a day ahead of WUWT, and unless someone is checking on UD Scientist on a hourly basis – which I doubt -, I wouldn’t be surprised if the person who tipped off Anthony got it there first.
Günther Kirschbaum says:
“Why do you lie?”
So you managed to find a source called “the chatter box” that reported the same thing within 24 hours.
Explain how you know that makes the author a “liar.”
Make it good, troll.
1. Can anyone tell me the best source of current satellite photographs of this area?
2. Can we have a thread on the NW and NE passages? The NW looks very nearly open now, and the NE just has a blockage between the Kara and Laptev seas (at least I think that’s the correct geography). What ships are attempting which Northern Passages?
Rich.
Re #1 I think I can answer my own question:
http://exploreourpla.net/explorer/?map=Arc&sat=ter&lvl=8&lat=81.677236&lon=-64.021071&yir=2010&dag=225
Rich.
Northwest Passage
See – owe to Rich said:
August 14, 2010 at 10:16 am
“2. Can we have a thread on the NW and NE passages?”
The NW passage northern route is looking more open than it has done in many a year
http://ice-glaces.ec.gc.ca/Ice_Can/CMMBCTCA.gif
Andy
RACookPE1978, you said
“By the way, the “ice island” in question is INSIDE a narrow, twisting fjord”
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/48690000/jpg/_48690867_glacier_image_compound_2.jpg
That’s the whole point about fjords, they are ice carved so are u shaped valleys that are not twisty at all. So why did you make that up, did feel you had to go the extra mile? The extra twisty mile of course 😉
Andy
Thanks for that link, Steven Goddard. This is an interesting quote as well:
Earlier this year, ice specialists said to expect thinner ice.
And, according to Environment Canada’s ice service, ice conditions in the Northwest Passage at the end of July resembled those normally found in the second or third week of August.
That’s probably because last winter, no part of the central Arctic experienced colder-than-average temperatures and freeze-up occurred later.
Air temperatures were also above normal throughout last year’s September to December freeze-up period, averaging from 1 to 5 C warmer over the central Arctic.
The impact of this unusual warmth is still felt this month when ice, except for a few places in the passage, is lighter than usual.
RACookPE1978 says:
August 14, 2010 at 9:07 am
Phil. says:
August 14, 2010 at 5:15 am
Re disinformation by RACook the route the ice island has to travel to reach the Nares strait is wide and straight not “narrow and twisting”, if anything delays its travels it will likely be inadequate depth.
—…—…—
But you claim it’s a “straight path” to the sea?
No, as your quotation of my statement clearly shows I did not say that!
You said:
By the way, the “ice island” in question is INSIDE a narrow, twisting fjord,
Which it clearly is not, one of us is telling the truth and it isn’t you as shown by your own post.
Your subsequent post concerning the difficulty of the ice island negiotiating the Nares (sic.) strait has nothing to do with your original false statement, had you said that in the first place there would be no problem.
PUBLIC DISSOCIATION FROM PENN STATE METEOROLOGY.
By Joe Bastardi
Though it will mean nothing to them, it means plenty to me.
And most importantly, it is not meant to diminish the works of the greats that came before me, and are still inspirations to me, one of them being Dr. Joel Myers, THE founder of ACCUWEATHER, a Penn State grad, who has done more than any man alive to advance the cause of private meteorology in the world. You know the saying of Newton.. if I have seen farther than others, its because I have stood on the shoulders of Giants. Well Joel is one of those Giants. But its guys like Joel that made Penn State, not Penn State making Joel. And perhaps that is the problem with Penn State and their stance today on the issue of AGW, they believe that they are more than what they are. Their actions, and recent issuances from people there, who seem emboldened by decisions made in regards to Dr. Mann speak volumes as to true intent
I have to admit, I am a graduate of Penn State in meteorology (1978) and always looked at this as one of the achievements of my life. No more. Though I have a degree from the once proud and great meteorology department, it was EARNED during its glory day, when we graduated 2/3rds of the worlds meteorologists, and were the envy of other schools. That was yesterday, and yesterdays gone.
My words will mean nothing to the people now running what was once the envy of the atmospheric science world, But they mean plenty to me. Penn State has lost its way. The recent events show you are not in pursuit of the answer, but an answer that people in control believe is pre determined and one that promotes an agenda, not science. So no mas, in the words of Roberto Duran. I will know longer refer to myself as a Penn State grad, nor promote the university in my appearances , which will be something they wont mind given the way they have to be thinking. . Those that I learned from there, they will always be my heroes. BUT THEY MADE PENN STATE.. PENN STATE MAKES NO ONE… at least the way they position themselves now.
One can not imagine the betrayal I feel at the hands of this university. AND THAT SAYS IT ALL. While I am greatly pained in writing this, it matters nothing to the people that want to promote an agenda and shut down debate on a matter that I believe will have a completely different outcome from what they try to hoist on the planet It is the toughest thing I have gone through in my whole life. The fact is the university I busted my tail for, and defended all these years, is complicit in not only advancing an agenda driven matter in the name of “science” but also trying to suppress freedom of independent, rational thinking. Its that simple.
I put this out here on this site, because unlike my blog, it will get out there publicly. And believe me, there are many.. legion, that graduated PSU through the 90s that feel the same way I do. We have a cheer we yell at our sporting events.. “we are… penn state.”
In regards to this, and other matters, it would be more accurate to yell, .. “we were..penn state”
Perhaps, time will prove me wrong. I almost hope it does, but I dont see it, I graduated in 1978. 30 plus years of ties that bind, plus actually bleeding and sweating in a PSU uniform on their wrestling team ( which by the way I still love and support) are a tough thing to cut. But the recent articles on “climate ethics” and other things pushed me over the edge. I have always been, right or wrong, honest with my audience though I admit I have avoided this matter. No more.
Just so you know how I feel
ciao for now **** FRIDAY 11 PM
Günther Kirschbaum says:
August 14, 2010 at 8:40 am
Readers will surely recall when WUWT was the first climate news outlet to publish this story:
Why do you lie?
[Reply: With a comment like that you need to provide a verifiable citation. ~dbs, mod.]
Günther, Goddard always feels the need to boost his self-importance, as you rightly point out WUWT was certainly not the first, Patrick Lockerby reported it first before UD, Neven followed it up before WUWT (Aug 5, 2010 5:55:37 PM | Animation, Glaciers, Satellite images) http://neven1.typepad.com/blog/2010/08/animation-10-petermann-glacier-ice-tongue.html
Joe;
And all because a green-as-grass PSU postdoc (Mann) in ’98 latched onto a cornucopia of outside political funding! It appears the negotiations for the sale of its integrity didn’t take much time.
Günther
The Arctic was warm last winter because of the record low Arctic Oscillation, which was spilling the cold air out of the Arctic to lower latitudes like Europe.
Mann was not a PSU postdoc! I assume that the rest of your facts are as reliable.
Phil;
He had just completed his degree; he didn’t have a postdoc position as such, I grant you. But he was a very ordinary junior PhD until he tapped the money vein for the department. The subsequent quality of his work, and his notorious (unwarranted) arrogance, are all of a piece.
Jct: Great article. Great research. Wonderful to have to lies exposed so quickly, even if only to those of us who can still read.
The penquins on the ice island remind me of the warministas, They’re getting a free ride.
The difference is, the penquins are not trying to tell us that there is anything unusual going on here!
Brian H says:
August 15, 2010 at 11:37 pm
Phil;
He had just completed his degree; he didn’t have a postdoc position as such, I grant you. But he was a very ordinary junior PhD until he tapped the money vein for the department. The subsequent quality of his work, and his notorious (unwarranted) arrogance, are all of a piece.
I’m afraid the quality of your research doesn’t get any better.
Mann was a post-doc at UMass until 1998, then a Research Assistant Professor at UMass until 1999 when he was appointed as Assistant Professor at UVa, a post he held until 2005. At which point he was appointed as an Associate Professor and Director of the Earth System Science Center (ESSC), Pennsylvania State University and promoted to full Professor in 2009. At no time could he remotely be described as a post-doc at Penn State nor as “a very ordinary junior PhD”! If you want to criticize Mann try sticking to the facts and not making up nonsense, it ends up undermining your case, and by association that of others.
So there is a Greenpeace ship named Arctic Sunrise. Strange, I seem to recall learning that above the Arctic Circle, and likewise below the Antarctic Circle, is the land of the midnight sun, with “sunrise” occurring only once a year at the poles. Offhand this looks like the frequency of which this ship does anything remotely notable.
It would be in Greenpeace’s best interest to rectify this situation immediately. To highlight the dangers of anthropogenic global warming and the unprecedented loss of Arctic sea ice, Greenpeace should promptly take the vessel on a cruise through the Northwest Passage, to clearly demonstrate how easily navigable it has become. Of course this must be done without the aid of icebreaker vessels, as they use either the horrendous dirty fossil fuels or the potentially more calamitous nuclear fuels, which is moot since such ships are obviously not needed anyway.
Nice pic of the penguins. Is that from the Arctic colony that got started after the Animal Liberation Front rescued those penguins from their captivity at a Northern Canadian zoo and released them into their natural habitat?
😉
its alway over done by our enemies the reason why the BS Is out in the open is for control of us all. by the way the penguin guys look happy many fish in the sea and by the way Icebergs have been with earth for one billion years.
Presumably those toffs in the coats and tails are the [snip] who have already colonized their [snip]land new home.
Seems like that giant iceberg is quite lacking in the necessary understructure, as it seems to be floating a bit on the high side; despit all the freeloaders catching a ride on top.
RE: Phil. and Gunther. I was unaware of these comments until today as I was traveling all weekend and did little moderating.
Looks like the US Navy National Ice Center may have in been the first to spot the calving via satellite. They spotted it on August 5th and have an annotated ENVISAT image they posted. See below:
Figure 1: Shows an ENVISAT image (©European Space Agency) of Petermann Ice Island (2010) dated August 5, 2010.
http://www.natice.noaa.gov/Petermann.html
The comment was that WUWT was I believe the first to publish the press release From University of Delaware, citing the 4x Manhattan size, which is the one that made it into all the MSM outlets with that comparison. Eurekalert had the press release and I published it within the hour, citing UD’s source page:
http://www.udel.edu/udaily/2011/aug/greenland080610.html
which had a 1:40PM Aug 6 timestamp. Eurekalert, which the MSM subscribes to, had it shortly after UD published it:
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2010-08/uod-ggc080610.php
I never made any claim of being the first to spot the actual calving event. Neither did Goddard.
That honor apparently goes to the U.S. Navy Ice center on August 5th, though they don’t have a hourly timestamp so it is hard to be certain. Either way, whether it was this fellow Lockerby, UD, or the U.S.Navy, WUWT has made no claims of spotting the calving event first, only of being the first to publish the UD press release on August 6th.
“”” George E. Smith says:
August 16, 2010 at 6:06 pm
Presumably those toffs in the coats and tails are the [snip] who have already colonized their [snip]land new home. “””
Hey Chasmod, of course you knew it was tongue in cheek. But if Anthony’s rule is that that word is on the Nyet list then I will refrain even in jest.
My aplogy for transgressing.
George
“whether it was this fellow Lockerby, UD, or the U.S.Navy, WUWT has made no claims of spotting the calving event first, only of being the first to publish the UD press release on August 6th.”
Irrelevant. Does not address the issue of who was first to publish the news.
“I never made any claim of being the first to spot the actual calving event. Neither did Goddard.”
Straw man argument! Ignoratio elenchi.
Gunther gave proof: Steve Goddard was not first to publish the news – 6th August.
Patrick Lockerby was actually first to publish the news – 5th August.
You have mail:
http://www.science20.com/chatter_box/letter_anthony_watts
When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging!