Second Mann spoof video removed

Somebody just can’t handle satire.

PRESS RELEASE
Wednesday, April 21st 2010
CONTACT
Jeff Davis
No Cap and Trade Coalition
612-605-3303 Ext. 702
Jeff.davis@mnmajority.org

Video Spoofing Michael Mann Removed by YouTube – Bogus Reason Given

St. Paul — At a Washington DC press conference yesterday, the No Cap and Trade Coalition announced a new video spoofing prominent ‘climategate’ scientist, Dr. Michael Mann and his infamous ‘hockey stick chart’ showing rapidly increasing global temperatures in recent decades. The video was posted on YouTube until Wednesday afternoon, when the Google-owned video site removed the video, citing non-existent copyright claims by Jib Jab as the reason. The video was produced in response to a cease and desist demand from Michael Mann’s attorney over an older video produced by Minnesotans for Global Warming. The original Hide the Decline video they created used some Jib Jab-provided animation, under their general license and with their expressed written consent, but the new video, recently removed by YouTube contains no such content.

Spokesman for the No Cap and Trade Coalition, Jeff Davis said, “It looks like Dr. Mann has gone into overdrive trying to hide ‘Hide the Decline,’ since the new video was launched and began to spread like wildfire across the internet.” In the span of less than a day, the video had been linked on over 1,000 websites, including News Busters, Junk Science, and the American Spectator. It was going viral fast and the press was calling when YouTube pulled the plug.

According to the No Cap and Trade Coalition, Jib Jab has no rightful claims on the new video, titled ‘Hide the Decline II.’

“They have no basis for this copyright claim. It’s outrageous that they would claim ownership of content we produced, if that’s indeed what’s happened, as YouTube claims in the removal notice,” said Davis.

Although YouTube has decided to stifle the popular new satirical video, it’s still available through other venues and can be viewed at NoCapAndTrade.com.

##

Minnesotans for Global Warming (M4GW) uses humor to illustrate the absurdity of anthropogenic global warming fears. Their slogans are “Turn your snow shovels into lawn chairs,” and “Nothing would be green without CO2.”  – M4GW.com

The No Cap and Trade Coalition consists of over 40 state and national organizations that are opposed to cap and trade legislation. For more information, see NoCapAndTrade.com

Dan McGrath

Minnesota Majority

http://www.minnesotamajority.org

=========================

The Minnesota Majority have reposted the video at Vimeo and it can be viewed here:

http://vimeo.com/11124841

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151 thoughts on “Second Mann spoof video removed

  1. Google owns Youtube, and Google is left-wing and in bed with the regime. Which is why no real, genuine network neutrality is a bad thing. Content controllers like Google can control what is available on the internet :-(

    REPLY: And why I recommend using WordPress over Blogger. Blogger is another Google division. -A

  2. The original video ‘Hide the Decline’ is still on YouTube.

    There are a lot of Hide the Hide the Decline videos as well…

  3. IT/CS types are overwhelmingly pro-AGWH, see their complete coup of wikipedia. I guess they trust computer simulations above all else..

    …no way to fix that, save introduce scientific methodology as a compulsory part of all IT programs. Currently they en masse believe that studying some recursive math and linear algebra makes them (actual) scientists.

    PS. Having said that, I have recently come across many computer scientists that *are* able to look further than the tip of their nose. Even more props to them.

  4. They who control information dissimination and content control the direction of the world. (or they would like to think)

  5. You do not hear my father whinin’ and fussin’ about the pure unadulterated bull cookies they print and discuss about him over Depropagandablog. Does anybody think that (snip) is for real? Double standards all around, barkeep !!

  6. Is it ok for someone not from Jib Jab to say they are from Jib Jab? Sounds illegal……

  7. Please, kind ladies and/or gentlemen, read “over AT depropagandablog”. Thank you for your time.

  8. Just to be sure, the first Hide the Decline video is here:

    I hope it works not only on the Czech territory. You can turn the subtitles on/off by the “CC” button.

    We still have a freedom of speech over here. In fact, our new environment minister – an iron lady – is going after the neck of the warmists. The first step she did as the minister was to abolish the whole climate department. ;-)

  9. Al Gore is a ‘senior advisor’ to Google – he is probably helping them invent internet 2.0 – and, as we know, where there is a quid there is a pro.

  10. (The above video of Hide The Decline II is courtesy of the Fox News Channel on YouTube. I guess Google hasn’t decided to take them on, yet.)

  11. Wow….(yawn – fidgets with post it notes and scratches head)

    Like censorship is gonna somehow dissuade, oh,…I don’t know, a bazillion peoples, that AGW is sacrosanct, unbiased, and manifestly true.

    Cos when they tell someone they can’t have an opinion, WE present them with the eagle, and procede to leave burning poo on their door step.

    Kudos to those here, and on other blogs, with the courage, and the diginity to face this stuff down, with all the contempt it deserves.

    And lawyers beware,…..i’m coming for all of you….(dude? thats like 100 million lawyers,…)..yeah?, Well…. hell, I never said i’d git to em’ all at once…

  12. Should Sarah Palin get a cease and desist for these videos?

    ………………………………….

    http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/vp-debate-open-palin-biden/727421/

    ……………………………………

    http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/couric-palin-open/704042/?__cid=thefilter

    ……………………………………

    ………………………………………….

    I think she’s a bigger person than Michael Mann, and not so insecure about what she is all about that she would want to control any public image of herself.

    But then again Michael Mann’s got nothing to hide….. except declines and such.

  13. VS (21:28:16) :

    As A software engineer etc… I assemble that…
    err resemble that … I cant spell.. (next I’ll be loosing my losing )…

    Actually I would have thought that IT types would be VERY very aware
    of how easy it is to stuff it up, and or manipulate outcomes (model wise)

    cheers

    J

  14. I believe this is because the left wing ciphers that run Google actually believe in junk science. Like many other scientists, they all think they are equally smart. As Google, like Microsoft and Netscape descends into a uniform business model that relies upon its industry weight to survive, rather than science or creativity, it gravitates to edgy, and frequently unsubstantiated, ‘science’ in order to validate its existence as a real breakthrough business. Of course Google has done nothing but acquire other promising business models for the last 10 years. Like Microsoft, it has reached the limitations of its own creativity. So being ‘edgy’ is important to these condescending dilettantes. But it means little to real science. That involves much more than selling advertisement space. Because that is what Google is, the Newsweek of the internet./

  15. David Walton (22:15:16) :

    (The above video of Hide The Decline II is courtesy of the Fox News Channel on YouTube. I guess Google hasn’t decided to take them on, yet.)

    They wouldn’t have a case since the video is satire. They don’t have a case on the first video either since it is satire.

    I’m pretty sure a lawsuit over satire against FoxNews would end in embarrassment for Michael Mann. And I am pretty sure he doesn’t have enough money to take on FoxNews in the first place. It would be peculiar for him to see his face on tv as someone who sued FoxNews over satire. He could end up being talked about on every FoxNews show from morning till night. It would make many people who know nothing of the Hockey Stick fully aware of it.

    OH PLEASE MICHAEL MANN, SUE FOXNEWS!!!!! PLEASE!!!!

  16. It is interesting to think that through the page rank algorithm (which counts links to an item) Google will have a good sense of the importance of a given site (or video). As Google indexes web pages frequently, Google also will have a good sense of increases in popularity.

    Must be very handy in making business decisions, short term investments, and provide a temptation to those that might want to fan or cool the flames of the latest trends.

  17. Luboš Motl (22:09:17) : “our [Czech] new environment minister – an iron lady – is going after the neck of the warmists. The first step she did as the minister was to abolish the whole climate department

    Can’t find any report on this. Link??

  18. David Walton (22:05:22) :

    The bigger they get the more cowardly they become?

    Michael Mann has reason to be looking over his shoulder.

  19. What an amateur that Mann is. Making such a fuss. Tsk, tsk, tsk. This only serves to pique interest in the skeptic message. He should follow the lamestream media’s playbook and ignore such things. Just look at the dying media’s adherence to the message as they keep the focus on global warming and ignore questions raised about the weak “science” behind the climate change scare.

    There is, however, one thing he should really be worrying about.

    When the whole climate change scare deflates in the face of reality and projections of doom fail to materilize, the feelings of betrayal from the true believers will be a fearsome firestorm.

  20. @ VT

    ‘IT/CS types are overwhelmingly pro-AGWH, see their complete coup of wikipedia’.

    I have spent my entire working life (30+ years) after graduating in Chemistry from Oxford in IT. The combination of some knowledge of a hard science, plus in in-depth understanding of IT from practical experience are the things that have helped to make me very very sceptical. Do not tar us all with your stereotype-laden brush, please.

  21. BTW, Google for the last 10 years or so has spent its resources on learning to spy on its users. While it pretends to protect your privacy, its primary goal is to protect itself. It turns over information to the government like a beggar checking a silver dollar. It only left China because it was losing money to the totalitarian regime’s search engine of choice. (duh). I suggest that people use Startpage that has a ‘forget’ feature. You must review your settings before you use. It is not nearly as good on multi-media tasks like pics and videos, but does a decent search on topics.

    https://startpage.com/

  22. Since Jib Jab participated in developing for the first video, I can see why they might have a copyright claim against the second video, which is a variation on the first. I think the validity of the claim would depend on whether they only provided the animation, or whether they contributed substantially to the overall concept.

  23. MR Mann lawyering up and having Youtube pull videos brings publicity that no money could buy. The videos just go viral, and there is no stopping that wildfire. I reckon that Mr Mann isn’t very good at looking ahead either..

    Congrads to the M4GW folks and the NCTC folks for success with their funny and creative videos. There were some good additions in V2, and they get front burner publicity all over again.

    ..Distracted mind floats off to visualizing Dick Dasterdly (The bad guy in the old Wacky Races cartoon) going “Drat, foiled again!” and Muttley snickering at him..

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muttley

  24. VS (21:28:16) :

    IT/CS types are overwhelmingly pro-AGWH, see their complete coup of wikipedia. I guess they trust computer simulations above all else..,

    Untrue. Or at least unknowable.

    I am disturbed that some WUWT commenters appear to use this place to bash intellect and expertise as part of some sort of conspiracy. Intellect and expertise are vital to comprehension of the Universe around us and ignorance and anti-intellectualism are the enemy of mankind.

    I am an “IT/CS type” and I reject global warming alarmism BECAUSE I understand the limitations of computer modelling and have a reasonably good historical foundation to comprehend that the Global Warming panic is part of a cyclical part of human history where the mistaken neuroses of a few become the moral panics of the many.

    Yes, the AGW crowd are condescending and rude. That does not mean that expertise and intellect are to be rejected in favour of “thinking with your gut” because frankly there are no brains located there.

  25. Amino Acids in Meteorites (22:23:35) :

    Sarah Palin handled it like an adult.
    Remember the skit where she walked in on Tina Fey?
    There’s an object lesson there.

  26. Ray (22:24:40) :
    Mann is not the only one wanted to sue people or papers that tells the truth… here in Canada we have our own witch-hunter; Andrew Weaver. When out of scientific arguments, they turn to court. I thought only politicians and Hollywood people had such egos… but so called scientists???

    “UVic climate scientist sues National Post”

    http://www.bclocalnews.com/vancouver_island_south/saanichnews/news/91768534.html

    ====
    The National Post comments about Andrew Weaver weren’t satire. His charge is they lied about him. If he is right, he has a case.

  27. John A (23:09:38) wrote: “I am disturbed that some WUWT commenters appear to use this place to bash intellect and expertise as part of some sort of conspiracy. Intellect and expertise are vital to comprehension of the Universe around us and ignorance and anti-intellectualism are the enemy of mankind.”

    I think you are making an enormous false generalization.

    The articles and most of the comments here demonstrate more “intellect and expertise” than the AGW gang. Indeed their ‘debate is over attitude,’ not to mention their corruption of the peer review process and their so-called science, is exactly the kind of anti-intellectualism you worry about.

    And, please, show me the articles here – other than some great satirical ones – than in any way represent ‘thinking with your gut.’ Just look at the analysis of basic data flaws and issues done by Anthony, Willis and Steve!!!

    But faced with what is obviously a massive anti-intellectual campaign to avoid addressing the now clearly identified flaws in their ‘science,’ backed by a bunch of gut-thinking and shrill greenies and their Wall Street manipulators, those who question AGW do sometimes get a little testy, to put it mildly. But they (almost) never stoop to the ‘denier’ name calling or other idiotic levels used by those trying to shout down the highly intellectual questions being asked.

  28. At least we still have Monty Python’s “Village Idiot” sketch, with the unforgettable lines about the “Lecturer in Idiocy at the University of East Anglia”

    around 2:40 on here:

  29. I have noticed that Google’s news page always has “PRESS TV” as the top source for damn near any story about Iran. Why is that Google?

  30. “John A (23:09:38) :

    VS (21:28:16) :

    IT/CS types are overwhelmingly pro-AGWH, see their complete coup of wikipedia. I guess they trust computer simulations above all else..,

    Untrue. Or at least unknowable.”

    I have to defend VS here. My impression of my various IT&CS colleagues from various projects over the last years is: 90% silently pro-AGW, 10% Moonbats. Everyone of them loves solar and wind power generation.

    Most people who think they’re intelligent here in Germany just tend to believe what Der Spiegel writes and don’t reflect about it much.

    Once you engage them in a discussion they have no big intellectual problems understanding the sceptic arguments though, so a re-re-education seems possible.

  31. @ VS (21:28:16) :

    Random stats question for you. If you are comparing weather stations from different locations, and comparing them to a certain mean value (baseline) with the intent of saying something about the total of all these mean values (mean periodical temperature, reset yearly), don’t you still have to follow the rules for making an inference about the difference between two means? If the interval is mixed (see global temperature anomaly), aren’t you automatically excluded, at least statistically, from saying that the interval is substantially different from 0 if the interval, in this case the anomaly values smeared over a map is the interval, includes 0?

  32. Don’t you just love the internet? Imagine having to scour all your local video-rental shops for a copy.

  33. [quote]
    Actually I would have thought that IT types would be VERY very aware
    of how easy it is to stuff it up, and or manipulate outcomes (model wise)
    [/quote]

    /signed

  34. My favourite one from Minnesotans for Global Warming is their “If we only had some global warming” still on youtube.

    Especially their take on the polar bear issue.

  35. This news is hardly surprising. I believe Al Gore was a former director of Google. Google now owns YouTube. Many would remember the Googlegate incident when Google began limiting search results for the term climategate and manually adjusting the autosuggest system to ignore the term. Stupidly they did this a few days late, so there was a base line to check against and screen shots to compare. For those that don’t remember, the basic story along with mealy mouthed excuses from Google employees is the first hit in a Bing search for Googlegate;

    http://talkingabouttheweather.wordpress.com/2009/12/02/google-gate/

    YouTube is trying to censor all the “Downfall” climate parodies (Which Anthony has for reasons of good taste never allowed links to on WUWT. ) Again they are claiming copy right issues. Not all have been blocked yet.

    Face book is now trying to censor or eliminate groups related to Wikileaks. Australian readers may know that Wikileaks was the first to publish the secret “blacklist” behind senator Conroy’s mindless plan for a mandatory government controlled internet filter. Wikileaks exposed the fact that many of the sites listed did not warrant a Restricted Content rating.

    While Google, YouTube and Facebook may seek to control ease of access to content on the internet, they cannot control content itself. The record of Google, YouTube and Facebook doing great evil is now content, recorded for all time. In an age when Little Brother is watching and recording, only the stupid would try to act like Big Brother.

  36. “I have spent my entire working life (30+ years) after graduating in Chemistry from Oxford in IT. The combination of some knowledge of a hard science, plus in in-depth understanding of IT from practical experience are the things that have helped to make me very very sceptical. Do not tar us all with your stereotype-laden brush, please.”

    ShotsFan, you’re not me, are you? (Univ Chem 76-80)

  37. Let’s hope Mr Mann can be dragged into court as quickly as possible. And I suggest he packs his toothbrush.

  38. Not hard at all to find working video links:

    Just as an example… internets wins the internets.

    Mr Mann is ignorant if he thinks litigation will reduce the negative publicity on him… he is simply driving this to be viral.

  39. John A (23:09:38) : I am disturbed that some WUWT commenters appear to use this place to bash intellect and expertise as part of some sort of conspiracy.

    John, it was the disgraceful censorship on Wikipedia by people I now know to be part of the climategate “gang” which turned me into a sceptic (I figured I had to see the evidence myself and couldn’t believe what these people said at face value).

    So let me be frank, these climate guys are just arrogant bullies who only chose the subject because they were bright enough for real science.

    And like all bullies, when those they bully unite against them they cry like babies.

    They are not only afraid that we are showing them up to be what they are, they are scared witless that their incompetence is now widely known in real science and I’ve no doubt dozens of Universities are competing with each other to replace these guys and get their funding.

  40. VS (21:28:16) :

    “IT/CS types are overwhelmingly pro-AGWH”

    Not as far as I am aware, and not in my experience. I would say they split down the middle like the population in general.

    One thing most computer programming types know is that computer models have very limited applications where real life testing can be used to verify the modle (ie car crash software, building design, etc).

    I think you’re confusing nerds in general with computer people. The type of nerds that cruft up sites like Reddit and Digg. There are a lot more nerds who think they know something than people with actual IT talent.

  41. The discussion is science.

    If Mann wants to set himself up let him. If googlers want to lose 50% of their business let them.

    That file is not banned, that file has not broken a law.

    It’s a skit a spoof and truly great satire is based in fact and truth.

  42. One other thing – the best way to deal with satire is to laugh with them and congratulate them on a good job. Fighting them is the absolute worst thing you can do. Michael Mann mustn’t have retained the services of a PR firm or Media adviser before shooting off about this.

    WHen I watched the original on YouTube, it came up with a little disclaimer that said ‘JibJab has nothing to do with this’ or words to that effect. I thought that would have meant that JibJab wanted to disavow any links to the first video.

  43. Luboš Motl (22:09:17) :
    Just to be sure, the first Hide the Decline video is here:

    I hope it works not only on the Czech territory.

    It works fine in the ME (faster than from the US, in fact), and I get a *lot* of “not available for viewing in your country” messages from U-Toob…

  44. I know this sounds like a nutcake theory, but I believe it, so it must be true, ask any lefty, but “do no evil” Google has become a massively powerful tool of our corporatist overlords.

  45. I recently did a ‘tongue-in-cheek’ posting on my website asking “Is Google biased in favour of climate change?” This was based on an analysis of Google’s page rank last year and again recently which showed that “non-sceptic” sites generally retained the same ranking but ‘sceptic’ sites tended to have a reduced rank.

    http://www.climatedata.info/Discussions/Discussions/opinions.php?id=6452446906985463484

    I don’t really believe that Google would risk its reputation by weighting page rank to favour one view of climate change over an other but this recent action does again raise the question.

  46. ShotsFan, John A

    First off, relax. I didn’t say ‘all’, I said ‘overwhelming majority’. At least in my personal experience, this is the case. Most statisticians I know however, are skeptics. I believe this to be a discipline related issue.

    Second, the point is not whether there are ‘caveats’ with computer models, but whether (calibrated) computer model fits can be considered proof, or not. Most methodological experts would say ‘nah’, while most CS/IT types would say ‘yeah’. Again, a discipline related issue.

    Finally, I clearly stated that there are notable exceptions to this ‘rule’, which apparently include the two of you. Kudos.

    Best, VS

  47. This is the Establishment at work.

    Truth, rights, anything good – they always gets trampled on by the steam roller of the Establishment asserting its interests.

    The Establishment here are those seeking to increase the tax burden on middle income earners – not the rich, they will be sheltered – by the use of green scare tactics and bad/dodgy/distorted science to ‘justify’ their actions.

    I once had reason to fight the UK Establishment – I was up against the most notorious litigation lawyers in the country. I went to see Queen’s counsel about what I could do – I was advised their case was completely unfounded and that I would win, but it could take up to 3 years and cost me £1.5 ($2.3) million to fight and win the case. I simply did not have that kind of money.

    The law may not be on Mann’s side, but if he has smart/tricky lawyers they will know how to make life misery for those who oppose him and do not have financially deep pockets.

    Continuous bad publicity and ridicule is the greatest fear of the Establishment – these videos need to be kept alive by whatever means and spread around to help ensure the extremes of bad science in most AGW are brought under control.

  48. Disagree with VS about IT types. I am a Software Engineer and I totally disagree with AGW. Keep up the good work WUWT. I tune in every day to find the latest slap in the teeth for AGW and the alarmists

  49. The M4GW kind of fell over themselves with this.
    I liked their videos a lot. But they really bungled this bogus threat of a lawsuit.
    Their Chicken Little press conference was the topping on the cake.

  50. I have just read some of Vaclav Klaus’s article and speeches about the environmental movement, thanks to the links posted by Eric (23.09.57) and wish that politicians in the UK, Australia and New Zealand could at least read what Klaus says. I am constantly dismayed by that group of politicians’ inabilty to think rationally about the AGW debate.
    When the UK Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, accused those who didn’t agree with him that ‘the science is settled’ re AGW as flat-earthers, I was apalled by his utterly blinkered thinking but unsurprised, as old Marxists rarely deviate from their goal of imposing their version of how the world should work.

  51. Nice to see a little censorship on Lenin’s birthday.
    In 1955, then Soviet Premier, Nikita Krushchev ordered April 22nd be designated a day to celebrate Communism. In 1970, it was chosen to be Earth Day by Gaylord Nelson, one of the founders of the event. Those founders had 365 days from which to choose. They chose Lenin’s birthday.

    http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/earth-day-is-lenins-birthday/blog-301815/

    This is why Earth Day is Lenin’s birthday. It is no coincidence. It is a tribute to the ruthless founder of Soviet Communism and his goals are being fulfilled today in the guise of saving the earth from farmers, ranchers, mining, timber, oil, and chemical companies. From “urban sprawl.” In short, any enterprise that seeks to utilize the earth’s enormous bounty to enhance, enrich, and extend the lives of Americans and others worldwide.

  52. The large Washington DC-based law firm, Cozen O’conner, which represents Mann in this matter is very active in environmental law, giving seminars across the country on this area. And it has an active section devoted to climate change.

    Their 2008 “White Paper” entitled: “The Business of Global Warming: Managing the Risks and Opportunities of Climate Change,” is 38 pages in length.

    It features this version of the Hockey Stick as its second graphic

    On page 5 there is this amazing alarmist summary of the science:

    “The IPCC, which has historically underestimated increases in CO2 and the effects of climate change, projects that by 2045, temperatures will have increased by 2°F.10 Such an increase is projected to result in massive flooding due to increased storms and higher sea levels, cause drought and famine impacting billions, increase the range of malaria-carrying mosquitoes, prompt population movements, and likely provoke armed conflict. Much more immediate effects would include eroding coastlines, unprecedented wildfires, more intense hurricanes and tornadoes, and severe hail.”

    http://www.cozen.com/admin/files/publications/ClimateChange_WhitePages.pdf

  53. There is an appeal process (and a pretty simple one at that) for DMCA take-down notices. Section 512 (which provides for take-down notices) also provides for “put-back” notices, in which the person who posts the material basically certifies that the complaint is without merit (thus removing any legal liability from the hosting provider).

    IANAL, etc.

  54. Now we see how fragile and incapable of living in a civil society the AGW promoters really are.
    Mann and his pals are acting much more like religious fundamentalists who are trying to suppress something mocking creationism than they are acting like scientists.
    I wonder how many satires of holy relics were suppressed by the Church back in the day?

  55. Meantime the Arctic is defying the Hockeystick by stubbornly posting excess ice

    http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/en/home/seaice_extent.htm

    now showing greater ice extent that anytime since 2002. Perhaps Mann should now have his lawyers demand that this site be pulled until Arctic ice complies with The Hockeystick.
    Meantime Antarctica is slighty more pliable in that http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/daily_images/S_timeseries.png
    are showing sea ice extent very slightly below the 1979 – 2000 average.
    Certainly there is no sign of a rapid melt in the Arctic as yet as predicted by some participants.

  56. Squidly (04:12:36) :

    I don’t use Google anymore. I don’t trust them.
    —————-
    Reply:
    Same here; I use Bing instead. It seems to work better than Google. I want nothing to do with a company that associates with Al Gore.

  57. Just be careful if your in the UK as i think Mr Mann is covered by libel laws, I became aware of these when I tried to access news story’s of a Mr Woods and his night time activities but when I tried to view the audio or video on US web sites this was blocked due to UK libel law.

    I think my point is don’t’ be surprised if the guys in the US can see the videos but there banned from the UK.

  58. These videos are covered under Fair Use of the First Amendment. They should let Mann sue them–he’d lose.

    Fair use includes commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching or scholarship. Usually the person using the work to comment on doesn’t make money off of it, but parody is different. Even if the creators of the parody made money off of it, it can still qualify as fair use. See Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music, 510 U.S. 569 (1994).

    There also needs to be market harm; in other words, Mann would need to show that he’s losing money because of Davis’ work.

    So I say let Mann sue. Please. I’d love to see his butt handed to him over something so frivolous. Then again, we know he’s a mean-spirited, hot-tempered egomaniac. We shouldn’t be surprised that he’d try to target someone who makes fun of him.

    Learn to laugh at yourself, Mike! You’ll live longer!

  59. Sorry should give an example (which i’m sure my friends in the US will appreciate), if you live in the UK try an access the great news reporting site

    http://www.nationalenquirer.com/

    Sorry the good old libel laws here in the UK stop this high profile news outlet from allow access to us here in blighty.

  60. AdderW (04:10:27) :Two videos ready to download from MEGAUPLOAD.

    Thanks, my children demanded a copy of the soundtrack for their phones so I’ve had the soundtrack for a while, finally I can give them the video!

  61. ” MartinGAtkins (03:18:10) :

    Downfall’ makers want Hitler spoofs removed.

    The makers of Downfall are trying to remove video spoofs of Hitler ranting in his bunker from YouTube, reports The Guardian.”

    German trademark law (German firm, Constantin film IIRC) requires you to take measures to protect your trademark otherwise you lose it. So they are actually forced to do this if they want to retain the possibility of marketing the film and selling it. In an interview, a representative of the firm said that they feel flattered by the popularity of the parodies but nevertheless need to take them down “to protect the interests of the artists”, IOW their trademark.

  62. Somebody should explain to Mann & Google how this interweb thingy works . . . the more they try to control and regulate the message, the more the message gets known and disseminated.

    They are doing fools business, but then who better to play the fool than the grand AGW fool himself, the greasy, slippery Dr. Mann.

    Dr. Mann should enjoy what little is left of his ill gotten reputation as a “scientist” . . . it is a straight and slippery slope into the cesspit of academic hell he has made for himself.

  63. David Ball (21:58:54) :

    Please, kind ladies and/or gentlemen, read “over AT depropagandablog”. Thank you for your time.

    Reply: I can not find it can you give a link?
    By the way I enjoy your Father’s articles.

    You might want to look at The ‘Innocents’ Clubs’ seems the AGW chorusline is just a different version of the same club. While central banker Paul Warburg came to the USA to implement the Central bank called the “Federal Reserve” his brother Max was one of the “The two Germans most responsible for the financing of Lenin” These string pulling banking families have not gone away because the USSR collapsed, they just changed their “stripes” well sort of.

    “What unites the many different forms of Socialism.. is the conception that socialism (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) must be handed down to the grateful masses in one form or another, by a ruling elite which is not subject to their control…” http://search.marxists.org/archive/draper/1966/twosouls/0-2souls.htm

    Why is it no one can understand big bankers and corporate CEO’s love “socialism” because it allows them to formulate advantageous regulations. In the USA the EPA, USDA, FDA, OSHA are run by the big corporations in such a way that they can squash any upstart competition. I am sure “Cap and Trade” will be used as the ultimate weapon against anyone they want to get rid of while squeezing the last bit of wealth out of the western world.

    “Agriculture and monopoly Capital” shows the consolidation of control in the food industry until we now have ten corporation, many privately owned, controlling most of the world’s food supply.

  64. Is there the possibility of a new version of internet which would provide “better” and “improved” characteristics, as when one content is removed it will be completely removed from all the internet, in order not to “poison” the souls of the “good” people all over the world?.
    I think, not the Prophet himself, of course, but his faithful employees will invent that new version of internet, so the new society, that liberal and fair society, envisioned by highly esteemed and altruistic bankers as “Open Society” and which is currently enforced through filantropist NGO´s all over the world, causing some irrelevant “casualties” once in a while, and which was conceived in california, in the 1960¨s by the famous writer and new age philosopher Aldous Huxley in his “opera magna” “Brave New World”, while he was testing the blessings of “Soma”(the name he used in his novel for current LSD) and taking with their close friends the also famous, since then, “kool-aid”.

  65. Google must act on any take down request that cites the DMCA by taking the material down.

    Also anyone contemplating issuing a take down request had best be prepared to go all the way as a very simple certification process by the original poster of the material will put it right back up.

    If I was M4GW Google would already have those certifications.

  66. As long as video memewar is the topic, I just noticed our (U.S.) Cartoon Network is rerunning a Super Hero Squad Show episode titled “The Ice Melt Cometh!” for today’s Pagan Holiday. Flat (“Did I mention the Earth is flat?”) Man and Reptile host a climate conference, and, well… here’s a YouBoob:

    Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2EAvZdA144
    Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDLGALiRG1k (fun starts at 0:37)

    Full episode here, if you can tolerate the 1-time cheesy survey: http://www.superherosquadshow.com/season-1/season-1-episode-22-ice-melt-cometh

  67. Claiming copyright over a work they don’t own copyright to is the worst of all copyright crimes. And going by the amount of money people have had to pay to certain entertainment industry for the mere “crime” of making available, this actual crime ought to cost absurdly.

    I wonder if Mann et al can afford it? :p

  68. David Ball (21:55:48) :

    You do not hear my father whinin’ and fussin’ about the pure unadulterated bull cookies they print and discuss about him over at Depropagandablog.

    Perhpas the difference is your father is confident he’s right and patient that the truth will eventually assert itself whereas Dr. Mann knows he’s right and no one has the right to dispute that.

  69. Erik (23:09:57) :

    @Luboš Motl (22:09:17)
    —————————————————————-
    We still have a freedom of speech over here
    —————————————————————-
    ..and you got Václav Klaus, a real man that dare stand up against the AGW crowd
    ___________________________________________________________________________

    Could we borrow Václav Klaus, for four years to run for President here in the USA? All he has to do is hide his birth certificate behind a bunch of lawyers. /sarc

  70. VS
    First off good to see you back. I haven’t spotted you here since the B&R post, before your epic effort over at Bart’s blog.

    Regarding IT and AGW Belief… a couple comments. The first is that there might be some significant regional differences in the mix here. I consider two sites in particular to be the cutting edge IT News sites – the Register and Ars Technica. El Reg is in the UK, and their coverage of AGW is highly skeptical. Ars is out of the US and a drum beater of the consensus view. The strength of the IT-implies-AGW-belief equation, which neither of us think is 100%, seems to be peculiar to the US in my reading… although maybe Germany shares this with us according to DirkH.

    There is also, from my time studying Computer Science, a rampant dysfunction with many of the students – not too disimilar from Engineering and Math majors, and which seems to be the case with Climate Science too – in that traditionally defined IQ (book smarts, as I call it) is king above all other values, and practical intelligence (what I refer to as street smarts, and where I classify the “more you know, the more you know you don’t know” paradigm) is of little consequence. IMO, this is probably the biggest driver – when a nerd-king, as I call it, sets their position on a technical issue they are rarely ever accepting that they could be wrong, and even when faced with substantial evidence that they were wrong… they will rarely own up to it.

    I know this, because I have many of them working for me now and I have to work with/around that aspect of their personality. A few of them, at least, seem to be skeptical but I really try not to bring it up – I abide by what i call beer drinking rules with my employees… no religion, no politics and while I’m not sure exactly what AGW is, it’s somewhere in that spectrum of core beliefs that should, for the most part, stay out of a professional setting.

    Engineers, in particular, seem to lose this nerd-king-know-it-all aspect relatively soon after college (studying historic engineering failues, structal collapses, etc will do that :), MIS majors – which is typically part of the Business school – don’t seem to develop this problem… and TBH, I don’t really know many Math or Climate Scientists. Economics majors get Institutional Humility beat into their heads on a daily basis – it would take a “special” person indeed to get through my professors’ courses and come out the other end thinking “I can explain everything”.

    I’ll go ahead and apologize if I have offended anyone. I am not describing hard rules here, just anecdotal evidence from my life experience.

  71. DirkH (00:33:40) :

    “John A (23:09:38) :

    VS (21:28:16) :

    IT/CS types are overwhelmingly pro-AGWH, see their complete coup of wikipedia. I guess they trust computer simulations above all else..,
    ________________________________________________________________________________

    Untrue. Or at least unknowable.”
    ___________________________________

    I have to defend VS here. My impression of my various IT&CS colleagues from various projects over the last years is: 90% silently pro-AGW, 10% Moonbats. Everyone of them loves solar and wind power generation….
    _______________________________________________________________________________

    I would have to agree from what I see in the USA, but I would extend it to all College graduates. Most are served a healthy dose of “green” brainwashing along with their education. Since rebellion is typical of most young adults, they generally swallow it whole without checking.

    I remember the screaming arguments my brilliant Electrical Engineering brother had with my Dad. Big brother got a healthy dose of brainwashing his first semester in college. Intelligence and education are no real protection against brainwashing. It actually seems to make the target more gullible because they are so highly specialized, focused in their thinking and getting deluged with tons of new information. When do they really have the time to do in depth research on the subject when they are studying and partying?

  72. Mike Haseler (06:55:34) : That is implicitly true, as for example, Sun´s TSI (remember prof.S insistence on “it is not the sun”) watts/sq.mt. makes no difference between night and day, it is a FLAT FIGURE referred, obviously, to a FLAT EARTH scenario.

  73. With writs flying like confetti, AOL seems to have joined the ranks of those passing satirical comment on the upper echelons of the warmist power base.
    My attempts for the past two days to connect with Hadobs CET record have failed but the ever helpful AOL on each occasion have suggested “Did you mean Hand Jobs?”
    My first thoughts were ” no I do not” but on reflection perhaps their opinion of the MET office is that they are in fact a load of W***ers and clicking that link will provide access to the information I require.
    To click or not to click – that is the question…………………

    http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html

    Only works on AOL!

  74. Mann is afraid of an overdose of truth

    He can sit at home and watch Oprah and if he eats veggies, his food prices skyrocket. Or his fair trade corndogs are expensive.

    Food prices jumped by 2.4 percent in March, the most since January 1984. Vegetable prices soared by more than 49 percent, the most in 15 years. A cold snap wiped out much of Florida’s tomato and other vegetable crops at the beginning of this year.

    “A cold snap” killed the fruit and produce. Does Mann know what a cold snap is?

  75. steven mosher (07:12:01) :Hey!, that knowledge is really awesome!, now it becomes clear the behaviour of GWrs.! Either they suffer of constipation, those who are lean and of the most hysterical type (rather explainable because they are materially full of sh**), or they suffer of diarrhea, those who speak about “coal death trains”, who, no matter what they do, are incapable of feeling the warm coming from the sun rays, those are the ones who hate us skeptics and call us deniers…etc.etc.
    Seriously talking, it is not surprising as the center of gravity of the human body (called Hara by the japanese), and situated about an inch below the navel is the center of blood circulation, the “plexus mesentericus”.

  76. Seems like Mann is intent on becoming the Snidely Whiplash of the environmental movement. A year ago he was merely a devious, incompetent scientist. Now he seems intent on becoming a bullying stalinist-type censor.

    So much for the public’s view of the integrity of science and those who practice it. The Mann has no shame.

  77. I’m very confused because I just watched the original video in my Youtube app on my pda phone. The video I saw was linked from nocapandtrade.com…

    Are these videos just being put back up as fast as they’re taken down?

  78. Dr. Mann is using a communications tactic to leverage free publicity. He’s not stupid, so I suspect he’s positioning himself for the pending Gore announcements (antics) and attempting to play a role in the face of a growing worldwide community of Skeptics.

    He actually has nothing to lose and a great deal to gain as they still want to pass the Cap and Trade Bill later this year.

  79. ZT (07:48:53): The quest for the truth continues:

    “Climate Scientist Sues Canada’s National Post”

    http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/04/22/26627.htm

    When I read the climategate emails the one person who stood out was Michael Mann and he really did come across as a particularly nasty individual who was disliked even by the other climategate people.

    As I recall it was Mann who was particularly keen to “spread the message” through realclimate and I think there’s little doubt that since climategate his colleagues will have given him the cold-shoulder for so enthusiastically leading into the wilderness by his “unorthodox” scientific methods.

    These threats are just the last resort of a desperate mann.

  80. To the anti-Google/pro-Bing posters,

    Bing is Micro$oft. When you look at things like corporate activities, corporate donations, and causes championed and donations made by their bigwigs, are they really any better?

    Side note: Strange that no one mentioned Yahoo! as an alternative… or maybe not that strange, I gave up on it long ago. ;-)

    The whole mess, YouTube and Blogger etc, highlights something important. If you really want to seriously put out something controversial, put it on your own site, with your own hosting. Free speech ain’t free.

    Anyone know if the original video will get stored at the Internet Archive? I wonder if it’s even possible to get them to delete anything. Hey, does anyone know if the Library of Congress will store a copy? Did anyone email it to their Congress Critters, making it official correspondence?

  81. I believe that M. Mann has been in the news enough to qualify as a public figure. It is almost impossible for a public figure to win a slander case in USA courts.

    Unfortunately, much litigation in the USA is not about winning, but forcing your opponent to spend money on legal fees. Often letters threatening litigation should be translated into plane english as, “I will force you to spend 10,000 per month on lawyers, unless you do what you ask. I can afford the 10,000. Can you?” Until Judges start dismissing frivilious claims and awarded legal fees on losses, this will be a major component of USA lawsuits.

  82. VS (21:28:16) :

    The Computer Sciences were the first hard-science/engineering field to be targeted by communists and other lefties. You should look at their curriculum and listen to their wacked profs. The rot goes back to the late 60’s. BTW I work as a Software Architect specializing in instrumentation and data collection. Many software engineers do manage to overcome the damage caused by their schooling.

  83. BlondieBC (08:33:59)

    Do some reading on SLAPP Lawsuits – that’s the name given to frivolous lawsuits aimed at shutting down free speech. There are efforts underway to put laws in place to shut this type of thing down, but for now it’s still he who has the deeper pockets wins.

    As noted, these often backfire – as referenced in the comments on the Streisand effect

  84. I think VS may be seeing regional geographic differences effecting the beliefs of “IT/MIS” people. In that a great many IT people work in Silicon Valley, Seattle or NYC, you are likely mostly seeing the reflection of peer pressure regarding “beliefs” influenced by the culture they live within. Silicon Valley and Seattle are both deep into “green marketing”, much of which is nothing more than marketing propaganda with little or no impact on the environment.

    Many professional software engineers, me included, examined source code released with the better known ClimateGate emails and were quite surprised to find obvious errors in the code, no sign of code testing, archival or version control – and really, no signs that professional software engineering standards were ever associated with climate modeling and statistical analysis.

    Last week, Dr. Judith Curry of Georgia Tech called upon the climate science community to enlist the assistance of professional statisticians and computer scientists so that climate research can repair its reputation for sloppiness and unprofessional work products.

  85. Some things I believe to be mostly true:

    Those who profess to do things for ‘the greater good’ have an ulterior motive;
    People who are quite well educated can be not very smart;
    The left wing group tends to encompass environmentalists who like to do things ‘for the greater good';
    People who profess to do things ‘for the greater good’, very rarely do;
    people who profess to do things ‘for the greater good’ want to shut up those who don’t subscribe to their point of view and will aggressively pursue any and every action to do so;
    Google, Wikipedia and other ‘socially controlled’ sites are driven by those who like to do things ‘for the greater good';
    Those who want others to do things ‘for the greater good’ will argue the man, not the case.

    Never trust an educated left wing environmentalist who wants things to happen ‘for the greater good’ because they did a Google search and found a Wikipedia page, and will begin by insulting you when you start any sentence with ‘but what about…’.

    Colloquially:

    Very smart people are often not well educated – usually through no direct fault of their own;
    People who actually do things ‘for the greater good’, just actually go ahead and do it;
    People who are actively making the world a better place will educate you on things that make the world a better place, but understand that you are free to make your own choices;
    Smart people see ‘social’ sites as simply a tool, and like everything on the internet, probably made up by a 14 year old who has nothing better to do while the World of Warcraft servers are down for maintenance;
    Right wingers are quite happy for any and all to have a soap box – particularly those with an opposing point of view – so that everyone can gather all the views (wacky or not) on a subject;
    True environmentalists tend not to label themselves as such;
    Those who want to do things ‘for the greater good’ will argue the case, not the man.

    (Now, I may be wrong, and there are probably several people who fit one or more of the above categories who are perfectly fine people. But….just sayin’).

  86. Regarding Weaver (emphasis mine):

    Weaver, who holds the Canada Research Chair in Climate Modelling and Analysis, is asking for a court injunction requiring the National Post to remove the allegedly defamatory articles from its own site, and also assist him in removing them from other Internet sites where they have been re-posted — an aspect of the case McConchie said he believes is unprecedented in Internet libel law.

    http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/Rights-Justice/2010/04/21/WeaverSues/

    That is no small statement. He wants to wipe the record of it off the Internet. What about the court records detailing the allegedly false accusations – are they to be censured as well?

    I found 3 of the 4 alleged “defamatory” articles (‘So much for pure science,’ ‘Weaver’s Web,’ ‘Weaver’s Web II’ and ‘Climate agency going up in flames’) still on the Post – to see all their Weaver Articles click here: http://www.nationalpost.com/m/search.html?q=andrew+weaver

    I have PDF-printed the three I could find for posterity. Only Weaver’s Web II has gone missing so far. The court records are available, for a fee, here: https://eservice.ag.gov.bc.ca/cso/index.do

  87. RayB (00:48:23)
    Reverend Horton Heat did a remake of the “Stop the Pigeon” song a few years back:

    WillR (11:07:15)
    Did I miss a link for Mann’s letter? Sounds like a fun read :)

  88. Orson (04:49:01) :

    If Mork sent you that link he deserves a pay rise. Mingling with modern day thinkers can be alienating for a realist.

  89. Luboš Motl (22:09:17) :

    “The first step she did as the minister was to abolish the whole climate department. ;-)”

    Ah, some fresh air.

  90. I wonder if Hansen, Mann, Trenburth and the rest of the US based AGW support crowd have considered what will begin to happen to them 195 days from today when the Democrat Party suffers stunning defeat at all levels in the United States.
    I guarantee the Inhofe & co. will begin the systematic removal of all grants and contracts to the AGWers and anyone else linked to the Goracle.
    It will take some time, but it will start on November 3, 2011 and will continue for the rest of thier worthless careers.
    It will also signal the beginning of investigations into statements made by and grant requests written by the AGW crowd. The investigations will lead to fraud charges and various conflicts of interest.
    In other words, the haydays for the people like Hansen, Mann etal are numbered and they are facing distruction of their reputations, ruin as well as jail, not necessarily in that order.

  91. WillR (13:46:36)

    Mann’s lawyer should have a look at the EFF’s statement on Fair Use, or maybe M4GW or NCTC should:

    When can I borrow someone’s images for my blog post?
    Images are subject to the same copyright and fair use laws as written materials, so here too you’ll want to think about the fair use factors that might apply. Is the image used in a transformative way? Are you taking only what’s necessary to convey your point? A thumbnail (reduced-size) image, or a portion of a larger image is more likely to be fair use than taking an entire full-size image. If you want to go beyond fair use, look for Creative Commons licensed images.

    I want to parody someone. Can I use some of their images and text in my parody?
    Yes, parody is recognized as a type of fair use, like other commentary and criticism, and courts recognize that a parody must often take recognizable elements from the work it comments upon.
    Courts do distinguish parody from satire. Parody copies from the object it mocks, while satire uses recognizable elements from the original work to mock something else or society in general. Parody gets broader fair use leeway than satire. If you want to make fun of Roy Orbison by changing “Pretty Woman” to “Big Hairy Woman,” that’s non-infringing parody; but if you make fun of the O.J. Simpson trial using Dr. Seuss illustrations and rhymes, that’s satire and in one famous case, it was found to be infringing (Campbell v. Acuff-Rose, Dr. Seuss Enterprises, L.P. v. Penguin Books U.S.A., Inc.).

    http://www.eff.org/issues/bloggers/legal/liability/IP

    In my quick read, this seems to be quite clearly a Fair Use issue unless they are putting Mann’s face on the t-shirts they are selling, which I’m pretty sure is not the case.

    Regarding Weaver,
    I’m curious if desmogblog violated anything by posting it on their blog, but that said… some of the complaints are pretty ridiculous: “Michael Mann’s “hockey stick” graph… has not/not been debunked“. I guess if the NP put words in his mouth that were provably false – like the allegations on the fossil fuel industry – then maybe there’s a valid complaint… but I’m not sure it can really be proven.

    In general is appears that they’re trying to put the entire IPCC/AGW case on trial. To say it’s illegal to question or imply that the IPCC or AGW in general is incorrect is more than ridiculous… it’s anti-free speech.

  92. NickB:

    I am not going to comment in any significant way on something before the courts.

    However the statement of claim is a public document. It is fair game to post that and make a factual statement about the claim.

    The Weaver claim is available to read and on-Canadian readers can probably say what they wish. Canadians should be circumspect.

  93. I remember a parody image made made by Jones and emailed around a specific group of people. Is parody only available for me, but not for you?

  94. Not all of the original is user content created by MFGW. That means that Jibjab or whoever created the original chopping down of the singing tree scene retains copyright of that scene. Regardless of whether MFGW were granted permission to use that scene to produce the original video they still do not have copyright on that scene.

    As the new video contains a copy of that scene therefore it is in breach of copyright on the original which is not held by MFGW.

    The bottom line is that the chopping down singing tree scene and the singing tree character were not created by MFGW so to produce a new video which was not in breach of copyright they would have to develop their own characters and scenes. That is the way western copyright law works. I can’t just go making a story about a wizard that looks like Harry Potter.

    They could still play the video in most Asian countries however as copyright laws are different there. They only cover the original work and still allow for modification. In most Asian countries I could go and make an 8th Harry Potter movie if I wanted to as long as I was taking it in a new direction.

    Regardless of whether people agree with them or not the reasons YouTube have cited are not bogus they are genuine legal reasons which can carry genuine legal repercussions. I fully understand YouTube’s position in removing the video.

  95. Gail Combs (06:01:18) :

    David Ball (21:58:54) :

    Please, kind ladies and/or gentlemen, read “over AT depropagandablog”. Thank you for your time.

    Reply: I can not find it can you give a link?

    It was wordplay on http://desmogblog.com

    The most recent Tim Ball story starts with A two-hour, 32-minute audio tape of a Tim Ball lecture (finally available here) features one of Canada’s most compromised climate change deniers (see especially here, here or here) making sweeping and silly pronouncements….

  96. WillR
    I’m pretty sure I just caught what you said and why you said it – by all means, do not let a random interchange on the internet compromise your professional integrity.

    It is interesting (counterintuitive?) that Weaver would document his concerns – which includes direct quotes from the “offending” articles in question and then ask the courts – via Copyright claims via NP I’d imagine – to wipe the internet clear of any/all record of the accusations.

    Anyway, it should be interesting to watch here from the sidelines…

    Regards.

  97. M4GW rocks! I hope everything with “Frozen Wasteland” is kosher. I’d hate to see that one pulled.

  98. RE: Kay (05:41:43) : “There also needs to be market harm; in other words, Mann would need to show that he’s losing money because of Davis’ work.

    Perhaps Dr. Mann could show that his career advancement opportunities have been constrained by this video as a result of ‘the appearance of wrongdoing’ standards that may apply even if he and his work were fully vindicated.

    Still, it is an internet classic and it is a little late to make such claims now as I suspect most of the damage of that sort has already been done. He may, perhaps, succeed in preventing the use of this video as part of a campaign to fight the renewed effort to pass Cap and Trade.

  99. Eneagram:

    … the famous writer and new age philosopher Aldous Huxley in his “opera magna” “Brave New World”, while he was testing the blessings of “Soma”(the name he used in his novel for current LSD) and taking with their close friends the also famous, since then, “kool-aid”.

    Brave New World was written in 1931 in London (decades before The Doors of Perception). Soma was hardly valorized therein.

    (“opera magna” = magnum opus?)

  100. NickB:

    There is also, from my time studying Computer Science, a rampant dysfunction with many of the students – not too dissimilar from Engineering and Math majors, and which seems to be the case with Climate Science too – in that traditionally defined IQ (book smarts, as I call it) is king above all other values, and practical intelligence (what I refer to as street smarts, and where I classify the “more you know, the more you know you don’t know” paradigm) is of little consequence. IMO, this is probably the biggest driver – when a nerd-king, as I call it, sets their position on a technical issue they are rarely ever accepting that they could be wrong, and even when faced with substantial evidence that they were wrong… they will rarely own up to it.

    They’re “squares,” in a word. They think in clockwork terms. This works well in science, and especially programming, most of the time. But it’s singularly inappropriate some of the time, for instance in such over-hyped “clockwork” enthusiasms as AI and behaviorism. And climatology, where the “chaotic” model with its internally driven, unpredictable trends has been ignored in favor of a clockwork input/output, externally driven “forcings” model.

    Here’s the concluding paragraph from “Breaking Things Down to Particles Blinds Scientists to Big Picture” by Jonah Lehrer in Wired, May 2010, at http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/04/st_essay_particles/

    Karl Popper, the great philosopher of science, once divided the world into two categories: clocks and clouds. Clocks are neat, orderly systems that can be solved through reduction; clouds are an epistemic mess, “highly irregular, disorderly, and more or less unpredictable.” The mistake of modern science is to pretend that everything is a clock, which is why we get seduced again and again by the false promises of brain scanners and gene sequencers. We want to believe we will understand nature if we find the exact right tool to cut its joints. But that approach is doomed to failure. We live in a universe not of clocks but of clouds.

    And here’s another relevant quote, from Anthony Standen’s Science is a Sacred Cow, [1950], 1958, Dutton Paperback.

    18-19 [Certain people (called “science fiends” later in the book)] suppose that because science has penetrated the structure of the atom it can solve all the problems of the universe. … They are known in every … college as the most insufferable, cocksure know-it-alls. If you want to talk to them about poetry, they are likely to reply that the “emotive response” to poetry is only a conditioned reflex …. If they go on to be professional scientists, their sharp corners are rubbed down, but they undergo no fundamental change. They most decidedly are not set apart from the others by their intellectual integrity and faith, and their patient humility in front of the facts of nature…. They are uneducated, in the fullest sense of the word ….

  101. Hi NickB (@(06:24:20)),

    I think your psychological disection is far more appropriate than my blunt provocation ;) In fact, the same holds, en masse, for statisticians/econometricians. However, with this particular group, and in this particular context, the (academic) insult drives the (absolutist) myopia in the exactly opposite direction.

    PS. Obviously, I’m still not ‘over’ the ‘regression analysis = visualization tool’ insult, lodged by Bart over at his blog ;)

  102. @ NickB: There is also, from my time studying Computer Science, a rampant dysfunction with many of the students – not too dissimilar from Engineering and Math majors, and which seems to be the case with Climate Science too – in that traditionally defined IQ (book smarts, as I call it) is king above all other values, and practical intelligence (what I refer to as street smarts, and where I classify the “more you know, the more you know you don’t know” paradigm) is of little consequence. IMO, this is probably the biggest driver – when a nerd-king, as I call it, sets their position on a technical issue they are rarely ever accepting that they could be wrong, and even when faced with substantial evidence that they were wrong… they will rarely own up to it.”

    Having been married for many years to an engineer/mathematician, I can say this is dead on. In our case, that attitude spilled over into our marriage and it’s part of the reason we’re not married any more.

    These guys wouldn’t survive 5 minutes in the real world. Many of them may be smart, but their social skills leave a lot to be desired. Maybe that’s why they’re Nerd Kings to begin with.

    ======================================

    Roger posted: And here’s another relevant quote, from Anthony Standen’s Science is a Sacred Cow, [1950], 1958, Dutton Paperback.

    18-19 [Certain people (called “science fiends” later in the book)] suppose that because science has penetrated the structure of the atom it can solve all the problems of the universe. … They are known in every … college as the most insufferable, cocksure know-it-alls. If you want to talk to them about poetry, they are likely to reply that the “emotive response” to poetry is only a conditioned reflex …. If they go on to be professional scientists, their sharp corners are rubbed down, but they undergo no fundamental change. They most decidedly are not set apart from the others by their intellectual integrity and faith, and their patient humility in front of the facts of nature…. They are uneducated, in the fullest sense of the word …. ”

    Excellent quote.

  103. Anthony
    I have sent an email to your Ambassador here, His Excellency, Jeffrey Laurence Bleich and followed it up with an email to the President of Pennsylvania State University, Dr. Graham B Spanier, protesting at the obvious attack on these gentlemen’s First Amendment Rights, especially by a public funded body.

    Colin J Ely
    Melbourne, Australia

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