The IPCC is Wrong

As a factor in Global Warming, increases in the atmospheric concentration of CO2 have been, and will continue to be, largely irrelevant.

Guest essay submitted by William Van Brunt


Copyright © William Van Brunt, 2016. All rights reserved.

Summary

The following are the basic principles and assumptions underlying the calculations set out in this paper:

1. The heating provided by CO2 is radiant heating and for purposes of this paper, when calculating the increase in heating that is a result of the buildup of CO2 in the atmosphere the only source of any increase in heating in these calculations is CO2 and the Water Vapor Feedback Effect it creates.

2. In order to maintain a given temperature, the power of the radiant heating absorbed by the Earth’s surface must at least equal the power of the thermal radiation emitted by the surface.

3.The total heating power, ΔF,  required to drive a given increase in the temperature of the surface of Land can be determined as,

 ΔF =  [(TLo + ΔTL) / TLo)4 – 1] × RULo  / Eff

 Where:       TLo is the initial average temperature of Land                                                                               

                     ΔTL is the change in the average surface temperature of Land,

                     RULo is the initial Up Radiation at TLo

                   Eff is the percentage of an increase in Total Heating that heats the Earth’s Land     surface.

The increase in heating power, ΔRadCO2, caused solely by an increase in the concentration of CO2 from the initial concentration, C0 to C, in ppmv, is determined by this formula –

ΔRadCO2 = 5.35 × ln (C / C0) (w/m2),

which means that there is but one result for ΔRadCO2 for a given change in concentration.

4. The increase in heating from the Water Vapor Feedback Effect provided by an increase in average temperature, ΔTCO2, resulting solely from the increase in heating from a buildup in CO2 is determined by this formula:

ΔWV = 1.6 ×ΔTCO2  (w/m2)

5. The Maximum increase in heating power received at the surface cannot exceed the sum of the results of the calculations set out in statements 4 & 5.

6. The Maximum average increase in Land temperature in degrees Fahrenheit, ΔTL resulting from of the calculations set out in statements 4 & 5 of ΔRadCO2 and ΔWV is determined by this formula as –

ΔTL = TLo × [(1 + Eff ×WV + ΔF) / NHLo)1/4– 1]

where:

NHLo is the initial Net Heating of the Land surface in watts per square meter.

7. One cannot determine the increase in Average Global Temperature based upon a change in heating because the surface temperature change response of Land and the Oceans to an increase in heating is significantly different. However, it is possible to determine the increase in Average Global Land Temperature based upon a change in heating and then estimate the change in Average Global Temperature.

8. The Maximum increase in average temperature cannot exceed the increase in temperature caused by the result of the calculations set out in statement 6.

The following are the results of the applications of these principles:

A. The change in the Average Global Temperature for Land between 1880 and 2002 was 2.6oF. To effect such an increase requires an increase of 13.8 w/m2 in total Average Heating Power. The Maximum total increase in total Average Heating Power that the buildup of COover this period could have effected is 1.6 w/mand the Maximum increase in the Average Global Temperature for Land that the buildup of CO2 over this period could drive cannot exceed 0.3 oF.

B. CO2 is not THE cause nor is it the primary cause of Global Warming

C. The Maximum increase in Average Global Temperature that a doubling of the concentration of CO2 from 400 to 800 ppmv can effect is 0.8oF. The IPCC’s predictions of 3.4oF to 7.9oF are 325% to 900% too high and this would require an increase in heating of 800% to 900% greater than that determined in accordance with the calculation set out in statement 3 above.

D. The IPCC is simply wrong.

Background

I have no direct, or indirect, links or ties to any business or investment that has any interest, whatsoever, in this matter. I have neither sought, been offered or received any funding, benefit or any form of consideration or promises to prepare this work – none. This has all been an independent pursuit of truth.

At the time, of the award of the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize to former Vice President Albert Gore and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (the IPCC) which was accepted on behalf of the IPCC by Dr. Pachauri, then Chair of the IPCC, I was honored to accept an invitation from a colleague to attend a gathering to celebrate the granting of this award, in Oslo.

I should also note that my academic training is not in meteorology or climate studies but this is also true, not only for Al Gore, but Dr. Pachauri as well. And, unlike both, for several years I was part of a team of scientists designing vehicles for the vacuum of space and calculating the extreme rates of heating to which they are exposed as they slammed into the atmosphere of Earth or Venus. In the case of the probes into the planet Venus this work took into account radiative heating.

In terms of absorbing and emitting radiative heat, our planet is just another object in space, with sufficient mass to maintain an atmosphere that contains a small percentage of gases that both absorb and reradiate infrared (IR) radiation, the Greenhouse Gases (GHG).

With a basic grasp of physics, radiative heating and thermodynamic principles, a determination of the Maximum increase in the Average Global Temperature (the Upper Bound) that a buildup in the concentration of CO2 can effect is possible. Otherwise, the only option is to rely on the purported “experts” which I did for a couple of decades.

I sat there the night of this celebration listening to the speakers with the belief that Global Warming had occurred and hoping that at this celebration there would be an explanation as to why there was this exclusive focus on an atmospheric increase of ~ one part per million per year or one part per ten thousand over a century, of CO2, the effect of which is merely logarithmically proportional to increases in concentration over 290 ppmv, (at this level, a 10% increase in concentration results in a 1.7% increase in heating power[1]) and on a molecule-for-molecule is less effective as a Greenhouse Gas than the primary Greenhouse Gas, Water Vapor, which, on average, is present in the atmosphere at levels, and varies by factors, that are an order of magnitude greater than that of CO2 and, …..what this had to do with peace?

There was no presentation that demonstrated how an inconsequential change in such a minor component of the atmosphere could be responsible for Global Warming. Instead, what I heard were assumption based conclusions, summaries of the results of unexplained computer models, political speak and predictions of a parade of horribles, which may or may not be realistic, but could be the result of warming, irrespective of the cause.

That night, as the advocates for this belief played on our fears of Global Warming including a totally irrelevant and nonsensical analogy to horrible conditions on planet Venus, something I knew a little about, at the same time they appeared to be seeking to impute an unquestioning sense of guilt for all of Humankind stemming from having so benefitted from the massive consumption of fossil fuels along with a need to make amends by paying whatever it takes to stem the tide of Carbon buildup and minimize the effects of various potential doomsday scenarios, (reminded me of some preachers, “Atone for your sins or suffer hellfire and brimstone for eternity.”). For the first time, I began to wonder, based on the lack of scientific proof offered at a celebration of a Nobel Prize on the work of the role of CO2 in Global Warming, whether, and if so, why, the world was being taken in, misdirected into thinking that CO2 was THE or the primary cause of Global Warming.

Since then, my question – why the exclusive focus on such an inconsequential component of the atmosphere – went unanswered. Having read many justifications from those who make claims that Global Warming was/is caused solely by increases in the concentration of CO2. They basically boil down to:

1. Correlations of temperature increases with increases in the concentration of CO2;

2. Formulations/approximations that do not comply with the basic laws of physics, ignore the actual effects of heating and, at times, either alone or together with a theoretical, inflated and incorrect Water Vapor Feedback Effect formulation, substantially overstate the increases in temperature that the buildup in the concentration of CO2 can effect; and,

3. Determining that CO2 must be THE cause, because, if one does not include subsequent increases in the concentration of CO2 since the 1800s in the climate change computer models, these models do not show global warming, Lindzen (2007), but only do when subsequent increases in the concentration of CO2 are included (and then they overstate the increase in temperature, suggesting they are premised on the above formulations[2]) which, of course, assumes that these models are correct; they are not; See Gray (2012);

concluding, therefore, that Global Warming has been driven by the buildup of CO2 since the advent of industrialization.

These responses are all based upon the assumption that the buildup of CO2, alone was responsible for Global Warming.

When it comes to CO2, I wondered, rather than make assumptions, why not simply calculate the Maximum incremental heating that an increase in the concentration of atmospheric Carbon Dioxide can provide and the resulting MAXIMUM temperature increase? It is not difficult.

The average temperature of the surface cannot exceed the MAXIMUM average temperature that the Net Heating can effect. Therefore, if one knows the additional net-heating that a buildup in CO2 can cause, including the Water Vapor Feedback Effect, one can calculate the theoretical MAXIMUM increase in the Average Global Land temperature that the buildup in the concentration of CO2, alone, can effect.

While I could find many papers that calculated the increase in heating, radiative forcing, that increases in the concentration of CO2 could drive and then draw conclusions about the relationship to net surface temperatures based on the assumption that these temperature changes were caused by increases in the concentration of CO2, I could find very few analyses that went beyond the calculation of incremental heating.

There were only a few that purported to explain how to calculate the increase in the Average Global Temperature resulting from increases in the concentration of CO2. Of these there were only a few that calculated the historical increase and then only at the conclusion of the time period in question. (e.g. “Between 1880 and 2002 the temperature increase caused by the prior buildup of CO2 was equal to X.”) I found no studies for the changes in the temperature of Land caused by CO2, which for the reasons set out below, enables the most straightforward comparison.

My back of the envelope calculations for the heating power required from increases in the concentration of CO2 to effect the actual temperature increases over time called all of the IPCC’s conclusions about the role played by CO2 in Global Warming, into question. Therefore, I looked into this issue in greater detail, which resulted in this paper, in which, will calculate the MAXIMUM (not the precise) increase in average temperature that the buildup of CO2 can effect.

How to Calculate the Power and Maximum Temperature Increase Caused by an Increase in the Concentration of CO2

The Earth constantly emits thermal infrared radiation (IR) which I will term “Up Radiation”, RU.

The sole source of heating of the Earth’s surface is the net radiant heating absorbed from the Sun and the “Back Radiation” from GHG, the Net Heating.

If the average surface temperature is constant for a period of time, this means that the average power per square meter of the Net Heating, NH, is at least equal to the power per square meter of the average Up Radiation. Therefore,

Net Heating, NH = RU

Comparing Land to Ocean, the temperature of the surface of Land is far more responsive to the same changes in Net Heating. See Figure 1, below.clip_image004[4]

Figure 1. Average, Ocean and Land Temperature Anomalies (NOAA 2010)

Due to the percentage that goes into subsurface heating as a result of the thermal diffusivity of the Oceans, the surface temperature of the Oceans is not as responsive to the same radiant heating as Land.

Thus, changes in Average Global Land Temperature is a far better gauge of the changes in Net Heating than changes in the Average Global Ocean Surface Temperature or Average Global Temperatures (Land & Ocean, above), which includes the Oceans comprising 70.57% of the Earth’s surface. Therefore, I will use changes in Land temperature as a gauge.

The Up Radiation per square meter of the Land surface, RUL is equal to εσTL4 (Luciuk) where, ε is emissivity, a dimensionless constant between 0 and 1 that determines the efficiency of a body to radiate and absorb energy, which in this paper, for the surface of Land is assumed to be 1; σ is the Stefan-Boltzmann constant, 5.40×10-9 w/m2 T-4 and TL is the Global Average Land temperature in degrees Rankine.

RUL = εσTL4

At a constant average surface temperature, Net Heating, NHL = RUL, and, initially, NHLo = RULo

To maintain a given temperature, the Net Heating, NHL must equal the Up Radiation

NHL = RUL = εσTL4

Then, 

NHLN / NHLo = NHLN / RuLo = εσTLN4 / εσTLo4 = TLN4 / TLo4

 Since,

TLN  = TLo + ΔTL

And

NHLN = NHLo + ΔNHL

The increase in Net Heating power, ΔNHL, required to support this increase in temperature is,

ΔNHL = RULo × [(TLo + ΔTL) / TLo)4 – 1]

 Where ΔTL is the change in the average surface temperature of Land, and

                                RULo is the initial Up Radiation at TLo

The minimum change in Total Heating power, ΔF,  required to drive a given increase in the temperature of the surface of Land can be determined as, ΔNHL / Eff 

ΔF = ΔNHL / Eff = [(TLo + ΔTL) / TLo)4 – 1] × RULo / Eff

So for an increase of 2.6o from an initial temperature of 507.9oR and an initial Up Radiation of 360 w/m2, for this change in temperature, the minimum change in Total Heating, ΔF, required to effect this is,

 ΔF =  [(507.9 + 2.6) / 507.9)– 1] × 360  / 0.55 = 9.5 w/m2

If there is a change in Net Heating, ΔNH

 

This will result in a change in temperature, ΔT and the new temperature, TLN

TLN = TLo + ΔTL

The new Up Radiation, RULN, is equal to the initial Up Radiation, RULo plus the change in Up Radiation, ΔRuL.

RULN = RULo + ΔRuL

and, as noted above, where NHn is the New Net Heating,

RULN = NHn

NHis equal to the initial Net Heating, NHo, plus the change in Net Heating, ΔNHL. Therefore,

RULN = NHn = NHo +  ΔNHL = RULo + ΔRuL

Since, NHLo= RULo

 ΔNHL = ΔRuL

Further, given that

RULN = εσTLN4

Therefore, the ratio RULN / RULo

RULN / RULo = εσTLN4/ εσTLo4 = TLN4/TLo4

Since, RULN = RULo + ΔRuL

This ratio can then be written as,

(RULo + ΔRuL) / RULo = TLN4/TLo4

Given that ΔRuL = ΔNHL, then,

(RULo + ΔNHL) / RULo = TLN4/TLo4

And given that TLN = TLo + ΔTL, then,

(TLo + ΔT)4 /TLo4 = (RULo + ΔNHL) / RULo

Taking the fourth root of each side

(TLo + ΔTL)/TLo = [(RULo + ΔNHL) / RULo]1/4

Then solving for ΔTL

ΔTL = TLo × [(RULo + ΔNHL) / RULo]1/4– TLo

or,

ΔTL = TLo × [(RULo + ΔNHL) / RULo)1/4– 1]

The next step is to determine the increase in Net Heating as a result of an increase in the concentration of CO2.

The IR frequency band within which atmospheric CO2 can absorb IR radiation is nearly saturated, meaning that, today, the pre-existing concentration of CO2 effectively absorbs almost all of the Up IR Radiation that fall within this narrow band. In addition, this band overlaps with absorption band for Water Vapor. The consequence, there is very little IR radiation remaining that falls within this band that added CO2 can absorb. Therefore, the absorption within this band is not directly proportional to increases in the concentration of CO2.

The effect of this IR band saturation can be accurately modeled on the University of Chicago’s Modtran computer model, climatemodels.uchicago.edu/modtran/modtran.doc.html, for simulating the absorption and emission of infrared radiation in the atmosphere, including the effect of variations in the concentration of CO2.[3] This computer model was first developed for the U.S. Air Force and has been verified by satellite measurements. It is a very accurate way of determining the effects of band saturation on the ability of changes in the concentration of CO2 to change IR Back Radiation. However, this model is both change in concentration and geographically specific. In order to gauge the heating effect of changes in the concentration of CO2, each change in the concentration requires a separate computer run.

Instead, in this paper, the increase in heating from an increase in the concentration of CO2 in watts per square meter, ΔRadCO2, is calculated, in accordance with the IPCC’s formula as:

ΔRadCO2 = 5.35 × ln (C / C0)

where, C is the CO2 concentration in parts per million by volume at the later date, ppmv and, C0 is the concentration at the date from which the change is being measured, in ppmv,

not because it is correct[4] (it overstates the heating power from the increase in concentration) but because it is the only consensus model I have found and will clearly result in the calculation of the MAXIMUM temperature increase a buildup of CO2 can cause.

Knowing that the increase in heating from the buildup of CO2,  alone, ΔNHLCO2 is equal to the percentage of ΔRadCO2 that goes into heating the Land, Eff, and substituting Eff × ΔRadCO2 for ΔNHLCO2, the change in temperature caused solely by an increase in heating from the buildup in the concentration of CO2, can be expressed as,

ΔTLCO2 = TLo × [(RULo + Eff × ΔRadCO2) / RULo)1/4– 1]

or,

ΔTLCO2 = TLo × [(1 + Eff × ΔRadCO2 / RULo)1/4– 1]

Set out in Table 1, below, are my estimates of the key components of the Earth’s energy budget in 1880 and 2002 for Land.

Table 1

Earth’s Average Global Land Heating Budget[5] for 1880 and 2002, (w/m2)

Land 1880 2002
Total Heating 471 485
Up Radiation Land, RUL or Net Heating Land, NHL 360 367
Solar Radiation 159 161
Back Radiation from GHG 312 324
Evaporative Power, Land 13 13
Thermal Convection Land 99 105

This heating budget for Land for 1880 and 2002 together with the Average Global Temperature for Land in these respective years sets a base from which one can calculate the MAXIMUM temperature changes increases in the concentration of CO2 can effect.

As both the Sun and the GHG heat the surface of the Earth they simultaneously drive evaporation, subsurface warming and convection. The power that goes into evaporation, subsurface warming and convection cannot go into heating of the surface. In this paper, Net Heating is defined as the percentage of Total Heating that does not go into the evaporation, sub surface warming and convection. The Effective heating percentage (“Eff”) is defined as the percentage of Total Heating that heats the Earth’s Land surface. Referring to Table 1, for Land, about 53% of the Total Heating of the Earth results in the Net Heating of the surface.

To be conservative, Eff is set at 55%. Therefore, to determine the Net Heating Power,

Net Heating Power = Eff × Total Heating = 0.55 × Total Heating

This increase in heating and temperature will gives rise to an increase in evaporation, which will in turn increase the GHG and give rise to an additional increase in temperature, determined as follows:

The increase in Average Global Temperature can be determined from the increase in Land Temperature. It is approximately equal to the increase in Average Global Land Temperature multiplied by the ratio of the increase in Average Global Temperature between 1880 and 2002,1.4oF to the increase in Average Global Land Temperature over this period 2.6oF = 1.4oF / 2.6 = 0.56

The Maximum measured and estimated long term Water Vapor Feedback is 1.6 w/m2 per degree Fahrenheit change in Average Global Temperature Dessler (2014).[6]

Thus, the heating caused by the Water Vapor Feedback Effect, ΔWVCO2, as a result of an increase in Average Global Land Temperature, ΔTLCO2, in degrees Fahrenheit, can be expressed as:

ΔWVCO2 = 0.56 × 1.6 × ΔTLCO2

Taking into account the Water Vapor Feedback Effect, WVCO2, the MAXIMUM increase in net heating of the Land, ΔNHL, that can be caused by an increase in the concentration of CO2 from a given date can be determined as follows:

The Net Heating Increase, ΔNHL = Eff × (ΔRadCO2 + ΔWVCO2)

Thus, this is how the MAXIMUM Average[7] Global Land temperature increase can be calculated for a buildup of CO2.

ΔTL = TLo × [(1 + Eff × (ΔWVCO2 + ΔRadCO2) / RULo)1/4– 1]

So, for 1880, which is a starting point commonly used,

C0 is 291 ppmv,

ToL for Land is 507.9oR

Ruo is 360 w/m2

Eff is = 0.55

ΔRadCO2 = 5.35 × ln (C / C0)

In 2002, C is 373 ppmv,

∴ ΔRadCO2 = 5.35 × ln (C / C0) = 5.35 × ln (373/ 291) = 1.33 w/m2

Then the increase in temperature from the increase in CO2, alone.

ΔTLCO2 = TLo × [(1 + Eff × ΔRadCO2 / RULo)1/4– 1]

ΔTLCO2 = 507.9 × [(1 + .55 × 1.3 / 360)1/4– 1] = 0.14oF

The Water Vapor Feedback Effect is:

ΔWVCO2= 0.56 × 1.6 × Δ TLCO = 0.56 × 1.6 ×0.36 = 0.22 w/m2

The increase in total heating from this increase in the concentration of CO2, ΔRadCO2 + ΔWVCO2 = 1.33 w/m2 + 0.22 w/m= 1.6  w/m is consistent with the IPCC estimates of total increase in heating from all man made sources between 1750 and 2007.)

Then the temperature increase on Land with Eff = 0.55, resulting from the buildup of CO2 between 1880 and 2002, including the Water Vapor Feedback Effect, is:

ΔTL = TLo × [(1 + Eff × (ΔWVCO2 + ΔRadCO2) / RULo)1/4– 1]

ΔTL = 507.9 × [(1 + 0.55 × (0.32 + 1.32) / 360)1/4– 1] = 0.3 oF

Compare this Maximum increase in the Average Global Land Temperature effected by the buildup in CO2, 0.3 oF, to the actual increase in Average Global Land Temperature of 2.6 oF.

Using the ratio of Average Temperature to Land Temperature, 0.56, the increase in Average Global Temperature effected by the buildup in CO2 over this period is 0.2oF compared to the actual increase in Average Global Temperature over this period of 1.4oF.[8]

Clearly the buildup of CO2 over this period, 1880 – 2002, is not the cause of this temperature increase.[9]

The IPCC Formulations for Determining the Temperature Increase from the Buildup of CO2 are Incorrect and Substantially Overstate the Resulting Temperature Increase

The IPCC uses different formulae for calculating the increase in average global temperature from a buildup of CO2, which appear to be based upon the formulation of Arrhenius (1896) who set out his formula for a change in Average Global Temperature in degrees Celsius, as

ΔTArr = S × log2 (C/Co)

S, is the doubling sensitivity and it is normally given in degrees Celsius.

In Arrhenius’ paper, S can be determined as equaling 5.8o C. However, in his subsequent book, he suggests a smaller climate sensitivity, S = 4. Arrhenius & Borns (1906)

The IPCC’s most recent report (2013) states: “equilibrium climate sensitivity (the doubling sensitivity) is likely in the range 1.5 K [S] to 4.5 K [S] (high confidence).” IPCC (2013)

Since the IPCC is focused on the effects of doubling the concentration of CO2 from 400 ppmv to 800 ppmv, I will focus on this as well.

Such a doubling would result in an increase of 3.7 w/m2 in total heating power from the buildup of CO2, after applying the applying the IPCC formula for increases in heating of, ΔRadCO2 = 5.35 × ln (C / C0), increasing this for the Water Vapor Feedback Effect and with Eff = 0.55, this would give rise to an increase in Average Global Land Temperature, using the above formulas, of 0.8oF.

Referring to Figure 1, above, a 0.8 degree increase in Average Global Land Temperature corresponds to ~ a 0.4 degree, increase in Average Global Temperature.

Set out below in Table 2, below, is a comparison of the temperature results based on using the Arrhenius formulation for such a doubling, for values of S ranging from 1.5 to 4.5 and comparing the required increase in heating to effect such a change to the 4.3 w/m2 determined as set out above.

Table 2

Temperature and power required using Arrhenius Formulation for various values of S Proposed by the IPCC

S oC ΔTArr  

Deg. F

% Increase over actual temperature increase of 0.4oF % Increase in Power required to effect this temperature increase compared to actual power increase of 4.3 w/m2
1.5 2.7 488% 274%
2.0 3.6 684% 386%
2.5 4.5 880% 499%
3.0 5.4 1076% 613%
3.5 6.3 1272% 728%
4.0 7.2 1468% 844%
4.5 8.1 1664% 961%

The IPCC formulation for determining an increase in heating, ΔRadCO2, is dependent solely on the change in concentration, ΔRadCO2  is proportional to ln (C / C0). There is no “S” variable in this formulation. Therefore, the increase in heating is 3.7 w/m2, regardless of the value of S.

An increase in heating of 4.3 w/m2 can cause a 0.8oF increase in Average Global Temperature – no more; much less a range of temperature increases as high as 8.1oF.

To publish a range of the Maximum increases in temperature for the same increase in concentration and, therefore, the same heating is nothing short of scientifically absurd. If the Maximum temperature increase that the rate of heating can cause, is 0.8oF, that is it. This is best illustrated by column 4 which sets out the percentage increase in heating power required to cause the corresponding increase in temperature.

While some propose far greater increase in power from the Water Feedback Effect based on some theoretical concepts, the fact is the Water Feedback Effect has been measured. Any theoretical calculation or computer model that predicts a greater heating from this effect is wrong.[10]

Moreover, the basic and fundamental law that energy is always conserved, stands as a complete and total bar to any increase in temperature greater than 0.8oF.

Further, that the Arrhenius formulation, ΔTArr = S × log2 (C/Co) is simply wrong can be shown as follows:

Converting this expression to natural log function, then

ΔTArr = S × 1.44 × ln (C/Co)

As noted above, according to the IPCC, the increase in radiative power per square meter, ΔRadCO2, from an increase in the concentration of CO2, can be determined as:

ΔRadCO2 = 5.35 × ln (C/Co)

Thus,

ln (C/Co) = ΔRadCO2 / 5.35

Substituting ΔRadCO2 / 5.35 for ln (C/Co) in the Arrhenius formulation for calculation for change of temperature results in,

ΔTArr = 1.8 × S × 1.44 × ln (C/Co) = S × 1.44 × ΔRadCO2 / 5.35

which means that ΔTArr is directly proportional to changes heating, ΔRadCO2.

As noted above, based upon the basic principles of radiative heating,

ΔTCO2 = To × [(1 + ΔRadCO2 / RUo)1/4– 1]

which means that instead of being directly proportional to changes heating, ΔRadCO2, as Arrhenius assumes, ΔTCO2 is proportional to the fourth root of changes in heating, ΔRadCO21/4. Arrhenius’ conjecture is clearly not founded on the principles of physics.

The Arrhenius formulation and IPCC approach cannot possibly be correct.

Another writer, Ellis (2013) derives the equation for the increase in temperature, ΔTEll, in degrees Fahrenheit, resulting from an increase in heating, ΔRadCO2, which can be expressed as:

ΔTEll = 1.8 × 0.31× ΔRadCO2 = 0.56 × ΔRadCO2

Comparing this to Arrhenius, effectively in Ellis’ formulation, S is ~ 2.

These and similar calculations, Jacob (1999: § 7.4.3), in which the change in temperature is also directly proportional to changes in ΔRadCO2, instead of being proportional to the fourth root of the change in ΔRadCO2 as (1+ΔRadCO2 / Ru).25, do not comply with the radiative heating laws of thermodynamics and are simply wrong.

Given how straightforward the correct formulation is, one wonders why this is not employed by the IPCC and why “The IPCC’s range of uncertainty in the value of k[S] extends from 1.5 C to 4.5 C, with a central value of 3.0 C.”

Conclusion

The IPCC’s determinations overstate, significantly, the role of CO2 in Global Warming and are wrong.

The change in the Average Global Temperature for Land between 1880 and 2002 was 2.6oF. To effect such an increase requires an increase of 13.8 w/m2 in Total Average Heating Power. The Maximum total increase in total Average Heating Power that the buildup of COover this period could have effected is 1.6 w/m2. The Maximum increase in the Average Global Temperature for Land that the buildup of COover this period could drive cannot exceed 0.3 oF. Comparing 1) the Maximum increase in heating power of 1.6 w/mto the required increase in power to effect a temperature change of  Land of 2.6oF, 13.8 w/m2,2) the Maximum increase in temperature that can be effected by this increased heating of 1.6 w/m2, 0.3oF in the Average Global Temperature of Land, resulting from the actual increase in the concentration of CO2 between 1880 and 2002, to the actual temperature change of Land of 2.6oF and 3) comparing the correct prediction for a doubling of the concentration of CO2 of a Maximum increase of 0.8oF increase in Average Global Temperature compared to the IPCC’s range of 2.7 to 8.1oF, demonstrates, conclusively, that the IPCC is wrong. As a factor in Global Warming, increases in the atmospheric concentration of CO2 have been, and will continue to be, largely irrelevant.

This is not merely a scientific debate.

Governments across the globe are in the process of implementing and planning to implement, laws regulations, changes in taxing and offering direct and indirect subsidies and credits that in the future could result in costs that, in the aggregate, could equal the Annual Gross Domestic Product of the economies of all the countries in the World, based upon the determinations of and pronouncements from the IPCC. While potentially devastating to the economies and peoples of all nations, these efforts may not result in any meaningful reduction in the buildup of CO2, but even if they succeed in achieving this goal, this almost certainly will not result in a reduction of the Average Global Temperatures, because as a factor in Global Warming, the buildup of CO2 is largely irrelevant.

There will be no return on these economically damaging and tremendously costly investments.

Let me conclude with a few questions:

With all of the data possessed by the IPCC and all of the experts it has mustered, why is it that I have not seen any publications in which the IPCC, and its affiliates have:

1. Shown or discussed the increase in total heating power required to have caused the 2.6oF global average increase in land temperature since 1880?

2. Applied the computer models it uses for predictions to the period 1880 to today and compared the results to the actual average annual global temperature trends from 1880 to today?

3. Used the straightforward formulation, based on classical physics, to calculate the Maximum temperature increase a buildup in Carbon Dioxide can cause or explained why they view this as inapplicable?

Surely, the IPCC has considered these questions. If not, it should.

Looking back, it is now clear. The 2007 the Nobel Peace Prize was awarde because the work of the recipients would not qualify for an award of the Nobel Prize for Physics or Economics.


References

Arrhenius, S (1896) “On the influence of carbonic acid in the air upon the temperature of the groundPhilosophical Magazine Series 5 Vol. 41

Arrhenius, S. & Borns, H. (1908) “Worlds in the Making; the Evolution of the Universe New York, Harper” pp. 53 & 56

Cox, J.D. “Understanding the Weather’s Water Cycle” Weather For Dummies (www.dummies.com/how-to/content/understanding-the-weathers-water-cycle.html).

Dessler, A., (2014) “Measuring the effect of Water Vapor on climate warming.” (phys.org/news/2014-03-effect-vapor-climate.html).

Ellis, R. (2013b) (www.globalwarmingequation.info/global%20warming%20eqn.pdf).

Gray, W.M. (2012) “The Physical Flaws of the Global Warming Theory and Deep Ocean Circulation Changes as the Primary Climate Driver” (http://tropical.atmos.colostate.edu)

IPCC (2013) Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, Fifth Assessment Report (AR5) WG1, http://www.climatechange2013.org/images/report/WG1AR5_SPM_FINAL.pdf

Jacob, D.J. (1999)§ 7.4.3 Radiative forcing and surface temperature.”, Introduction to Atmospheric Chemistry”, Princeton University Press, (acmg.seas.harvard.edu/people/faculty/djj/book/bookchap7.html)

Lindzen, R.S. (2007) “Taking Greenhouse Warming Seriously” Energy & Environment, Vol. 18 No. 7+8

Luciuk, M. “Temperature and Radiation” (http://www.asterism.org/tutorials/tut40RadiationTutorial.pdf)

NOAA (2010) “Global Land and Ocean Temperature Anomalies January – December.”, NOAA’s National Climatic Data Center

Trenberth, K.E. (2011) “Tracking Earth’s energy: A key to climate variability and change.” (www.skepticalscience.com/print.php?n=865).


[1] Imagine a football stadium filled with 10,000 people (representing the atmosphere), with 100 to 400 people close to the field hollering all of the time (representing the initial level of GHG). The noise increase at field level from the addition of one more hollering person assigned to the highest seating level is similar in effect to the heating increase of one part per ten thousand of CO2.

[2] “…general circulation models (GCMs) can be used to estimate the surface warming associated with an increase in Greenhouse Gas concentrations. The GCMs are 3-dimensional meteorological models that attempt to capture the ensemble of radiative, dynamical, and hydrological factors controlling the Earth’s climate through the solution of fundamental equations describing the physics of the system. In these models, a radiative perturbation associated with increase in a Greenhouse Gas (radiative forcing) triggers an initial warming; complex responses follow…… There is still considerable doubt regarding the ability of GCMs to simulate perturbations to climate, and indeed different GCMs show large disagreements in the predicted surface warmings resulting from a given increase in Greenhouse Gases. …. Despite these problems, all GCMs tend to show a linear relationship between the initial radiative forcing and the ultimate perturbation to the surface temperature, the difference between models lying in the slope of that relationship.” (Jacob §7.4) (Emphasis added)

As noted below, the relationship between temperature and radiative heating is that temperature increases as heating to the ¼ power. (∆T µ ∆F1/4). It is not linear, which would greatly overstate the increase in temperature by hundreds of a percent. A “linear relationship between the initial radiative forcing and the ultimate perturbation to the surface temperature” is contrary to correct “fundamental equations describing the physics of the system”. Basic thermodynamics also teaches that the rate of heat transfer to the Earth’s surface cannot exceed the sum of the net radiative heating from current solar and back radiation.

[3] The MODTRAN algorithm solves the Line By Line radiative transfer equations at very fine spectral resolution.

[4] This equation is based on a determination for the optical (IR) opacity of CO2 and the assumption that the most significant and variable GHG, Water Vapor, was constant. This is not a valid assumption. More importantly this calculation ignores the very real and complex effects of CO2 band saturation, which can only be determined accurately using a very sophisticated computer model. Based on the simulations I have performed; the IPCC model produces results that are consistently higher than the output of the Modtran computer calculations.

[5] Knowing that Land covers 29.4% of the Earth’s surface, the Oceans account for 84% of total evaporation (Cox), in 1880 the average Land temperature was 2.6oF lower, using the energy budget data from Trenberth (2011), measured changes in solar heating and the Water Vapor Feedback Effect for changes in temperature, with –

1. Up Radiation adjusted for relative changes in Average Global Land Temperature to the fourth power,

2. Back Radiation adjusted to take these changes in Up Radiation into account after accounting for the Water Vapor Feedback Effects, and

3. Thermal Convection calculated as Total Heating less Up Radiation and Evaporative Power Land for the respective year.

one can estimate the Earth’s average energy budget.

[6] “From 2002 to 2009, an infrared sounder aboard NASA’s Aqua satellite measured the atmospheric concentration of Water Vapor. Combined with a radiative transfer model, Gordon et al. used these observations to determine the strength of the Water Vapor Feedback. According to their calculations, atmospheric Water Vapor amplifies warming by 2.2 plus or minus 0.4 watts per square meter per degree Celsius. This value, however, is only the “short-term” feedback—the strength of the feedback as measured during the observational period. This value is subject to short-term climate variability. The true value of the feedback, the “long-term” value, is what the short-term observed values should trend towards when given enough time.”

Using a series of climate models, the authors estimate the strength of the long-term Water Vapor Feedback. Extrapolating from their short-term observations they calculate a long-term feedback strength of 1.9 to 2.8 watts per square meter per degree Celsius.” 2.8 watts per square meter is the Water Vapor Feedback measure employed in this paper for temperature measured in degrees Celsius which is converted to 1.6 for temperature measured in degrees Fahrenheit.

While this measurement relates this amplification in heating to linear changes in Average Global Temperature, not to changes in temperature to the fourth power, this is likely so because this is a measure of changes in concentration which, over time, are driven by evaporation which changes linearly with temperature, the effects of which are orders of magnitude greater than changes in heat flux from changes in temperature.

[7] Of course, temperatures vary across the globe. If one performs this calculation for a range of initial temperature changes, ± 30oF, for example, and adjusts the Up Radiation accordingly, the average temperature change of this range is within one percent of the average temperature change calculated using this formula. Therefore, the Average Global Land temperature increase is calculated as set forth above.

[8] Referring to Figure 1, it is evident that Global Warming did not commence until the late 1970’s and ceased prior to 2002.

If one does the same calculations for the 38 ppmv increase in CO2 over this period; the Maximum increase in the Average Global Land Temperature effected by this buildup in CO2 is 0.2 oF. The actual increase in Average Global Land Temperature over this period is 1.8 oF.

The increase in Average Global Temperature effected by the buildup in CO2 over this period is 0.1oF compared to the actual increase in Average Global Temperature over this period of 1oF, or 10% of the actual increase.

[9] Global Warming nonetheless occurred between the late 1970’s and 2002. I show in another paper what the likely causes of this were.

[10] There are those who believe a range is appropriate due to the inability to precisely predict the impact of delays in reaching an equilibrium temperature and the difficulties associated with modeling the thermal diffusivity and responses of the Oceans and the manner in which the atmosphere responds to increases in heating.

Given an increase of 1 -2 ppmv per year in the concentration of CO2, reaching an equilibrium temperature on Land should occur far faster than the rate of change. But, whether or not this is correct, this paper assumes that the equilibrium temperature, which is the Maximum temperature, is reached and while all of these oceanic and atmospheric factors make it difficult to predict the precise effects of increases in GHG heating, these ranges must all be less than the Maximum increase in the Average Global Temperature that the heating can effect. They cannot exceed the Maximum number.


Copyright © William Van Brunt, 2016. All rights reserved.

William Van Brunt is a practicing lawyer and President and CEO of JFA, LLC. Before attending law school, he was a senior scientist and part of a highly successful design team engaged in state of the art research and development for, and writing the complex software necessary to determine the aerodynamics and heating of hypersonic vehicles for the U.S. Air Force and Navy and probes into the planet Venus, for NASA. Relevant to this topic are the degrees he holds from the Pennsylvania State University, B.S. (Aeronautical Engineering) and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, M.S. (Aeronautics and Astronautics), where he was elected to the Society of Sigma Xi. Fascinated by the claims made about the role of Carbon Dioxide in Global Warming and causes therefor, his is a novel, in depth and totally independent assessment of this topic.

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404 Comments
Kalifornia Kook
December 11, 2016 10:53 pm

Sorry, Mr Van Brunt – the Pope says you are bought and paid for by oil companies. I don’t care what you say, His words are infallible, so you must be lying. End of discussion.
/sarc off
I loved your detailed dissertation. I need more time to fully understand it. An awful large amount of data to study.

don penman
December 11, 2016 11:17 pm

The surface of the earth is not directly heated by radiation prevented from escaping to space by co2 but the overall temperature (surface + atmosphere) must increase which is different to the case of solar radiation which mostly heats the surface of the earth and the atmosphere indirectly. The atmosphere and surface must be in equilibrium in the long run but the temperature of the atmosphere is constantly changing as air circulates around the globe and the temperature of the surface is changing as solar radiation changes. Do the surface and atmosphere ever reach equilibrium? The water vapour feedback would be much larger with solar radiation than with heat retained by the atmosphere and surface as only the surface is heated with solar radiation.

December 11, 2016 11:50 pm

Interesting article, but what do “F” stand for? Something to do with temperature I suppose?

Frank
December 11, 2016 11:57 pm

William: You seems to have made some assumptions that may be incorrect:
The bulk atmosphere, surface (2 m temperature) and mixed layer of the ocean were in a steady-state before GHGs began to rise. As much energy flowed from the ocean to land as in the reverse direction. Once the land (and bulk atmosphere?) started warming faster than the ocean, I would expect energy to start flowing from the land to the ocean by way of DLR from the atmosphere. Therefore I don’t think that you can properly analyze global warming based only on the change in land temperature. EFF is changing. The land is warming far less than expected because heat is flowing from the land into the ocean. If you don’t carry out a global analysis, you probably won’t get the right answer and global analyses (energy balance models) give very different answers.
I may be a little picky, but I prefer to see heat capacity show up somewhere in an analysis of the temperature change associated with a particular radiative forcing. W/m2 is power/area. Temperature is proportional to energy/unit volume and heat capacity the proportionality constant. One needs to multiply by time and depth to get dimensional analysis to work out properly. Assuming that enough time has passed to reach equilibrium warming provides a shortcut that avoids these complications. That assumption is probably correct for land only, but certainly not for ocean.

Reply to  Frank
December 12, 2016 4:45 am

I may be a little picky, but I prefer to see heat capacity show up somewhere in an analysis of the temperature change associated with a particular radiative forcing. W/m2 is power/area. Temperature is proportional to energy/unit volume and heat capacity the proportionality constant. One needs to multiply by time and depth to get dimensional analysis to work out properly.

I’ve been adding all of this to my data reports, in fact I convert temp to a Flux, do the averaging in Flux, then convert it back to preserve the correct relationship. I also calculate enthalpy for dry air, and the water separately, but without subdaily dew point data, ir doesn’t really change anything I noticed. It’s in the Ver 3 beta folder here
http://sourceforge.net/projects/gsod-rpts/

Bob Boder
Reply to  Frank
December 12, 2016 7:48 am

Frank
“The bulk atmosphere, surface (2 m temperature) and mixed layer of the ocean were in a steady-state before GHGs began to rise”
And your evidence for this statement what?

Reply to  Bob Boder
December 12, 2016 8:50 am

“The bulk atmosphere, surface (2 m temperature) and mixed layer of the ocean were in a steady-state before GHGs began to rise”

They are never in steady-state, unless you mean it’s changing all the time?
The earths surface asymmetry (land and ocean) and the axis’s tilt makes sure the surface is never in equilibrium at any time. Most of the year the hemisphere’s are out of balance, and one side of the planet is in the dark radiating to space.

Frank
Reply to  Bob Boder
December 12, 2016 6:10 pm

There is a massive amount of proxy data from ice cores, ocean sediment cores, coral, etc., that show that our planet’s temperature and atmosphere have been relatively stable for more than 10 millennia, but warmed and cooled about 5 K changing between glacial and interglacial conditions. Temperature change since then has been much smaller. Given that heat flows from warm to cold and has been doing so for more than 10 millennia, I’d say that means that we had reached a relatively stable state before the Industrial Revolution.
Furthermore the ocean expands and contracts as it changes temperature and as ice on land melts or accumulations. Post-ice-age sea level rise became negligible (less than 20th-century SLR) about 4 millennia ago, proving that heat was no longer flowing into the deep ocean and/or melting ice caps.

Bob Boder
Reply to  Frank
December 12, 2016 7:51 am

Frank
“I would expect energy to start flowing from the land to the ocean by way of DLR from the atmosphere”
Your mechanism for this is what?

Frank
Reply to  Bob Boder
December 12, 2016 6:27 pm

The surface the ocean radiates LWR towards the atmosphere (about 390 W/m2) and most of this radiation gets absorbed before it reaches space. The atmosphere radiates DLR (about 333 W/m2) that is absorbed by the ocean. 1 K of surface warming increases OLR by about 5 W/m2. It is trivial to calculate that 1 W/m2 of power is enough to raise the temperature of a 50 m mixed layer of the ocean at an initial rate of 0.2 K/yr.
Once the land has warmed (or cooled) the atmosphere above the land, large scale mixing of the atmosphere over land and water is very rapid. Trade winds move air masses about 1000 km/day. Weather fronts cross the US in a few days. The consequences from El Nino are felt around the globe within a few months.
Therefore it is impossible that warming of the land surface from increasing CO2 has remained localized over the land and not shared with the ocean.

kiwistonewall
December 12, 2016 1:22 am

With all due respect to the fact that “The IPCC is wrong”, with which sentiment I heartily agree, I get stuck at the very first statement, which is wrong!
“1. The heating provided by CO2 is radiant heating ”
Nope, CO2 is not a radiant heater, and has nothing to do with radiation and T^4 equations.
CO2 absorbs discrete energy at certain wavelengths and either heats neighbouring molecules (thus losing the absorbed energy and heating its surroundings) or re-emitting that energy – which it arguably mostly does.
As Judith Curry so wisely states at:
https://judithcurry.com/2016/12/03/truthiness-and-factiness-in-politicized-scientific-debates/
“What are the facts in the climate science debate?
Average global surface temperatures have overall increased for the past 100+ years
Carbon dioxide has an infrared emission spectra
Humans have been adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere.
That is pretty much it, in terms of verifiable, generally agreed upon scientific facts surrounding the major elements of climate change debate.”
The math of discrete absorption and emission ( Beer-Lambert Law) isn’t that of a black body radiator. Rather than a Boltzmann distribution, we have discrete absorption & emission.
I’ve never seen a adequate mathematical demonstration of how to combine these two disparate concepts. Nor have I seen any decent experiments that model the atmosphere in a controlled fashion – I mean a “real” model, not a computer simulation – but where you can truly control the variables. My guess is that a suitable gigantic tank could provide such a model – for far less cost than a super computer.

Schrodinger's Cat
Reply to  kiwistonewall
December 12, 2016 3:40 am

I have read that energy transfer via collision has a much higher probability than the slower photon emission. Of course, molecular concentration comes into this, there are plenty of molecules in the part of the atmosphere we are discussing.

Frank
Reply to  kiwistonewall
December 12, 2016 6:56 pm

kiwistonewall wrote: “I’ve never seen a adequate mathematical demonstration of how to combine these two disparate concepts.”
Absorption and emission of radiation are combined by the Schwarzschild eqn for radiative transfer. If scattering is important, additional terms are added.
dI = + emission – absorption
dI = n*o*B(lambda,T)*dz – n*o*I*dz
The change in radiation intensity at a particular wavelength (dI) as the radiation passes an incremental distance (dz) through an atmosphere (upward in this case) depends on the density of absorbing molecules (n) – GHGs in the case of thermal infrared), the absorption coefficient for the absorbing molecule at that wavelength (o), the Planck function B(lambda,T), the temperature of the molecules (T), and the intensity of the incoming radiation (I). Many of these parameters change will altitude, so one may wish to express that as a functional relationship:
dI = n(z)*o(z)*B(lambda,T(z))*dz – n(z)*o(z)*I(z)*dz
Most of these also change with wavelength, but that is difficult to type:
dI(lambda) = n(z)*o(z,lambda)*B(lambda,T(z))*dz – n(z)*o(z,lambda)*I(z,lambda)*dz
One numerically integrates this equation over the path radiation travels (from the surface to space for OLR and from space to the surface for DLR) and then over all relevant wavelengths to get the power transmitted per unit area. (Radiation intensity is power per wavelength per unit area). The numerical integration is performed at online websites such as the one below which contains the necessary data: T(z), n(z), o(z).
http://climatemodels.uchicago.edu/modtran/
For more info see, Grant Petty’s “A First Course in Atmospheric Radiation”, which only costs about $40 at Amazon. The book is for meteorology students and makes no mention of global warming.

Reply to  Frank
December 12, 2016 7:24 pm

The numerical integration is performed at online websites such as the one below which contains the necessary data: T(z), n(z), o(z).

The problem with this, is it gives people the idea that they got an answer, but what they really got was one instance of one set of conditions for a process that takes all night to play out.

Frank
Reply to  Frank
December 12, 2016 8:28 pm

Micro6500: The temperature and density data in MODTRAN represents average conditions for the past few decades and therefore represents averages LWR fluxes in the atmosphere. Climate is concerned with long-term averages.
Weather forecast models and GCMs do similar calculations, but start with current conditions in each grid cell and let the temperature, pressure and humidity evolve over time.

Reply to  Frank
December 12, 2016 8:51 pm

Climate is concerned with long-term averages.

which is why they are still confused about the lack of affect of co2 on clear sky cooling at night.

Johann Wundersamer
December 12, 2016 1:45 am

Yep,
In terms of absorbing and emitting radiative heat, our planet is just another object in space, with sufficient mass to maintain an atmosphere that contains a small percentage of gases that both absorb and reradiate infrared (IR) radiation, the Greenhouse Gases (GHG).

December 12, 2016 2:05 am

I have noticed that there are hardly any comments from the persons who have carried out spectral calculations with the modern line-by-line calculator package. Yes, it is true that GH gases only absorb infrared radiation emitted by the Earth’s surface but it has effects on the outgoing LW fluxes and surface temperatures. I have used Spectral Calculator and by this tool I have calculated the transmittance, absorption, emission and radiance fluxes of the atmosphere. The correctness of these fluxes can be checked against the observed global average fluxes (W/m2) in the clear sky condition like: emitted flux 395, downward flux from the atmosphere 318, and the outgoing LW flux at the TOA 260. It means that these calculations are not just some theoretical calculations without any connection to the real climate. The accuracy of the latest HITRAN line list for CO2 has an accuracy of about 1 % in the atmospheric conditions.

Reply to  aveollila
December 12, 2016 4:55 am

The correctness of these fluxes can be checked against the observed global average fluxes (W/m2) in the clear sky condition

Here is my issue, did you vary the condition modeling the dynamic changes taking place? Or did you do a single static instance of time?
Because it is dynamic, as rel humidity goes to nearly 100% most nights, and that changes how the atmosphere radiates, as you can see here.
comment image
Better get use to this, it’s fat more important that the temp series I’ve seen a million times in the last 2 and a half decades.

Reply to  aveollila
December 12, 2016 8:00 am

aveolilla,
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/12/11/the-ipcc-is-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-2368976
You wrote:
“Yes, it is true that GH gases only absorb infrared radiation emitted by the Earth’s surface but it has effects on the outgoing LW fluxes and surface temperatures.”
I just like to learn. So please anybody, does this mean that GHG do only absorb IR coming directly from the surface, but not IR from other GHG molecules in the atmosphere?

Reply to  Johannes Herbst
December 12, 2016 9:50 am

GH gases absorb any radiation – it is photons – having the right wavelength. They cannot make any separation between photons.

December 12, 2016 7:09 am

The shortest period to analyze the climate change is the average solar cycle of 11 years.

December 12, 2016 8:07 am

Whew !, this whole thread with all the comments is a HUGE read. I confess that I could not get through every last comment, but I wanted to respond to one that related to my own current personal attempt at educating myself further:
Johannes Herbst, December 12, 2016 at 7:00 am said:

If the concentration of GHG molecules is higher, then the ping-pong game lasts a bit longer, means a stronger delay.

Aren’t we talking about picoseconds, and so even if this “ping-pong” game involved HUGE numbers of ineractions, then wouldn’t the collective amount of additional time still be quite small and inconsequential ?
… just starting to try to grasp the minutia of radiative physics of CO2 in descriptive terms, so bear with me.

December 12, 2016 8:26 am

“The sole source of heating of the Earth’s surface is the net radiant heating absorbed from the Sun and the “Back Radiation” from GHG, the Net Heating.” Er, haven’t you got your short and longwave radiation a bit mixed up? How can you just add the two?
Also, how can a cooler atmosphere ‘heat’ a warmer surface? If can’t! It’s physically impossible! This is the fallacy of the ‘back radiation’ conjecture.

jmorpuss
Reply to  ilma630
December 12, 2016 3:12 pm

The global electric circuit https://scied.ucar.edu/sites/default/files/images/video/2013.GEC_.3.21_1_1_0.pdf drives temperatures because of the resistance between atmosphere (positive) and ground (negative). Earth is a hot sphere (negative) radiating in all directions surrounded by cold space (positive) trying to cool it down. “Atmospheric electricity abounds in the environment above the surface of Earth. While some traces of it are found less than a metre above the land and water surfaces, on attaining greater height, it becomes more apparent.[28][29] In general, during fine weather, the air above the surface of Earth is positively charged, while the Earth’s surface charge is negative.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_electricity
“The global electric circuit (GEC) links the electric field and current flowing in the lower
atmosphere, ionosphere and magnetosphere forming a giant spherical condenser
(Lakhina, 1993; Bering III, 1995; Bering III et al., 1998; Rycroft et al., 2000; Siingh et
al., 2005), which is charged by the thunderstorms to a potential of several hundred
thousand volts (Roble and Tzur, 1986) and drives vertical current through the
atmosphere’s columnar resistance.”
http://gacc.nifc.gov/sacc/predictive/SOLAR_WEATHER-CLIMATE_STUDIES/2005%20Atmospheric%20Global%20Electric%20Current%20-%20OverviewSiingh.pdf

Reply to  ilma630
December 12, 2016 5:13 pm

A photon carries no information about the temperature of its source, it will be absorbed regardless of its source. Get enough 10 micron photons focussed onto steel and it will melt, those photons are no different whether they come from an atmosphere at 250K or from a CO2 laser.

Frank
Reply to  ilma630
December 12, 2016 8:58 pm

Robert Kernodle: Slower-moving molecules collide with and transfer kinetic energy to faster-moving molecules all of the time. If this didn’t happen, all molecules would soon be moving at the same speed. Individual molecules don’t have a temperature; only a large group of colliding molecules with a stable mean kinetic energy have a “temperature” – which is proportional to that average. When the collisions between such groups are summed, the net flux of kinetic energy – what thermodynamics calls heat – is from hot to cold.
The same is true for energy transfer by photons. The molecules that emit and absorb photons don’t have a “temperature”. The behavior of individual molecules and photons is determined by quantum mechanics. However, when you have large groups of colliding molecules exchanging energy by radiation, the NET flux (heat) will always be from hot to cold. If you look at diagrams showing the radiative flux between the atmosphere, ground, sun and space, the NET flux is always from hot to cold. Only the net flux must follow the laws of thermodynamics.
A branch of physics called statistical mechanics has shown that the laws of thermodynamics turn out to be a mathematical consequence of large groups of molecules following the laws of quantum mechanics. However, many technically competent people (especially engineers) never take a course in quantum mechanics or statistical mechanics, because these subjects are not needed in the macroscopic world. So many are poorly informed about what restrictions thermodynamics places on DLR. If the atmosphere is colder than the surface, then more photons will travel upwards (OLR) than downwards (DLR). That doesn’t mean that DLR must be zero.
The Cosmic Microwave Background left over from the Big Bang is a few K above absolute zero. How did Penzias and Wilson ever detect the CMB if microwave photons from space were not absorbed by an antenna here on Earth?

December 12, 2016 9:52 am

The atmosphere radiates downwards about 345 W/m2 and the the Sun about 175 W/m2 only. It is a cold fact and it has been confirmed by direct measurements.

December 12, 2016 11:47 am

I correct a little bit the former comments. There is nothing scientifically wrong the the atmosphere radiates downwards even 345 W/m2, when at the same time the SW radiation from the Sun warming the surface is only about 170 W/m2 (correction here). The average LW radiation upward is 395 W/m2 corresponding the black surface temperature of 15.9 C degrees. The downward LW radiation of 345 W/m2 correspond to the temperature + 6 C degrees.The total radiation warming the surface is 170+345 = 515 W/m2. The contribution of 345 W/m2 is the result of the GH effect. Without GH effect it would be much lower.

Reply to  aveollila
December 12, 2016 12:30 pm

There is nothing scientifically wrong the the atmosphere radiates downwards even 345 W/m2, when at the same time the SW radiation from the Sun warming the surface is only about 170 W/m2 (correction here). The average LW radiation upward is 395 W/m2 corresponding the black surface temperature of 15.9 C degrees. The downward LW radiation of 345 W/m2 correspond to the temperature + 6 C degrees.

The only way to get to 345 W/m2 downward flux, is to average in all the clouds. While true, sort of disingenuous.
If you measure the BB temp of the sky through the 8u-14u optical hole on a clear low humidity day, it will be 80F to over 100F colder than than the surface. You can convert that to a flux, add any GHG forcing (iirc ~22W/m2 total) I have an example of sky temp of -20F, added 38W/m2 and the resultant temp would be 0F. So even if there is DWLR, when added to clear skies, no way it’s averaging 6C.
On the other hand, measure the bottom of a cumulus cloud, and it’s 60 to 80F warmer. So, the 345W number is based on including clouds. Fair enough, but they make it sound like it’s from ghg forcing, and that is preposterous. Same with the 175W’s from the Sun.
Give you an idea of the energy getting exchanged every day.
At max temp, on average of 75 million daily station records, atm energy is ~38kJ/kg and drops 11.6kJ/kg for the dry air, and an additional ~2.4kJ/kg for the water. This just to change the air temp over night, and warming during the day. This does not include any energy in state changes.
That same average day solar forcing (at the stations the measurements were taken), was ~3740 Whr/24 hour day/m2, actual about 155W/m2, but it actually comes in near 310w/m2, just half the day.
It’s a good thing we have water vapor to play shutter on clear nights.

December 12, 2016 12:21 pm

A simpler way to look at this is to consider that a body can’t heat itself with its own radiation, otherwise it would heat up and vaporize. Obviously, this doesn’t happen. The atmosphere is cooler than Earth’s surface, and so is the CO2 that accumulates there. Consequently, CO2 in the atmosphere can retard the rate at which radiant heat is lost from Earth’s surface, but it can’t heat that surface above the temperature to which Sun heats it during the daytime, any more than a non-electric blanket can heat my body above 98.6 degrees F, the temperature which my metabolism maintains.

December 12, 2016 12:23 pm

I thought that the back-radiation explanation of the greenhouse effect was now a straw man argument, no longer in vogue with more sophisticated alarmists, who now use terms like “effective height of emission” and “Stefan–Boltzmann law” to seemingly retrofit elevated temperature in Earth’s atmosphere, without really specifying (from the ground up) how the temperature physically elevates according to how the retrofitting (via the equation) seems to dictate.
An attempt at an analogy:
137, 396 + -137,392 = 4 , but so do 1 + 3, … 2 + 2, … 0 + 4, and an indeterminate number of other sums. 4 does not require 137,396 to be part of the summation. Saying that it does ignores something deeper.
Maybe my analogy is off, but I feel like something similar is going on with the Stefan-Boltzmann explanation (if I even remotely have the correct sense of it). It all feels a bit over my head. Apparently, there is safety in advanced mathematical physics, because few people have mastered enough of it to pose a challenge to the convincing-looking equations. Still, even intuitively, something seems a little suspicious about it to me.
Tell me how a few molecules of CO2 cause the bouncing around of radiation to take more time to get to some magical level where only then can this radiation leave the earth because an equation creates some sort of defined barrier (sound familiar – “greenhouse ceiling”?).
Apologies, if this sounds completely infantile. I’m out of my league in this blog, but, like my fearless younger self many years ago who asked some guy to play handball with me (only later discovering he was a nationally-ranked player), I figure that I can still learn something here. I scored two points in four games with that player, by the way, and it really seemed to piss him off. Hopefully, I can score a few points here. (^_^)
My ignorant fearlessness made me a better player then, and I hope it can eventually make me a better “player” in this “game”. [Please, Kernodle, stop with the analogies and metaphors, already!, someone shouts from the balcony.]

Reply to  Robert Kernodle
December 12, 2016 2:33 pm

Robert Kernodle December 12, 2016 at 12:23 pm
You wrote:
“Apologies, if this sounds completely infantile. I’m out of my league in this blog,”
It happens to me as well. I’m just a handicraft worker, trying to get the general idea to explain it and to discuss with others about that topic.
“Tell me how a few molecules of CO2 cause the bouncing around of radiation to take more time to get to some magical level where only then can this radiation leave the earth because an equation creates some sort of defined barrier (sound familiar – “greenhouse ceiling”?).”
I try to explain it like this:
IR rays are radiated from the surface towards space. After some 20 or hundred meters they are absorbed from GHG molecules (H2O, CO2, Methane etc.). Even if the concentration is low, at certain frequencies there are enough molecules that inevitably every ray “hits” one of it.
Then we have a ping-pong of
a) molecules absorbing and emitting IR radiation randomly and
b) molecules absorbing IR radiation, contacting and transferring the energy to other molecules (GHGs and non-GHGs), then contacting and retransferring the energy back to GHGs which are absorbing IR radiation (with another frequency) in a random direction
until at last the IR radiation is reaching top of atmosphere and radiates towards space.
To make it simpler we can consider the atmosphere from say hundred meters up to 100 Kilometers as a black box.
You can measure
a) radiation which is emitted from the surface
b) radiation which is re-emitted from the atmospheric layer starting about 100 meters above the surface
c) radiation which is emitted from the top of atmosphere towards space.
And they do it already. Downwelling radiation from the bottom side of the atmospheric layer can be measured with a thermopile, as the are using in IR thermometers. Radiation going out from TOA are measured by satellites.
What is going on inside the “blackbox of atmospheric layer of 100 m up to 100 km” is a somehow complicated process, but it seems that a higher concentration of “GHGs aka IR sensiitive gasses” is increasing the downwelling radiation from the bottom of Atmosphere towards surface, therefore making the surface a bit warmer.
Now something very important:
There are a a lot of processes inside the atmospheric layer like energy transport through conduction, convection of air masses, and also some radiation from the surface is just going out to the space through the atmospheric window (having a frequency which is not absorbed from GHGs). And then we have clouds, which are also radiate IR rays towards sky. And then we have other GHGs as well included in the processes inside the atmospheric layer. And it seems that solar and cosmic influences also play a part in that game.
So just saying there is a CO2 sensitivity of 1.2 °C per doubling plus a positive feedback of additional Water vapor sensitivity doesn’t cover all the processes inside the atmospheric layer.
Using real world observation, it seems that the overall IR sensitivtiy of the complete layer is only about 0.5°C per doubling of CO2. So the IPCC, only using CO2 plus water vapor is missing a big part oft the calculation.
Pooh, a bit exhausting for me, but that’s how i would explain it.
Critics and corrections are welcome!

December 12, 2016 12:25 pm

Ooops, must have forgotten by HTML closing for the bold. … Stupid !

Reply to  Robert Kernodle
December 12, 2016 12:33 pm

… and I misspelled “my” (spelled it as “by” … Not looking too intelligent here, Kernodle.
Some … body …. help … me !

JohnKnight
Reply to  Robert Kernodle
December 12, 2016 12:43 pm

: )

December 12, 2016 2:47 pm

To add something to the prevalent confusion I like to add some explanation from this source:
https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/climatescience/greenhousegases/properties.html
“Radiation from the warmed Earth is mainly in the thermal IR region between 4 and 30 μm.
Molecular vibrations and some energetic rotations have energy level spacings that correspond to energies in the IR region of the electromagnetic spectrum (most rotations are in the microwave range which runs between thermal IR and radio wavelengths). Thus IR radiation absorbed by molecules causes increased vibration. Collisions between these energized molecules and others in the sample transfer energy among all the molecules, which increases the average thermal energy and, hence, raises the temperature. Conversely, molecules that emit IR radiation lose their vibrational energy and their collisions with other molecules decrease the average thermal energy and lower the temperature.
The wavelength unit used here and in most discussions of greenhouse gases is the micrometer, μm, which is usually called a “micron”. Frequencies of radiation in the IR are often given in units of reciprocal centimeters, cm–1, called “wavenumbers” (number of waves per centimeter). To convert microns to wavenumbers, divide the numerical value in microns into 10,000 μm·cm–1.
In order for molecular vibrations to absorb IR energy, the vibrational motions must change the dipole moment of the molecule. All molecules with three or more atoms meet this criterion and are IR absorbers. While the Earth’s (dry) atmosphere is predominantly composed of non-IR absorbers, N2 (78%), O2 (21%), and Ar (~0.9%), the 0.1% of remaining trace gases contains many species that absorb IR. “

Reply to  Johannes Herbst
December 12, 2016 3:35 pm

As stated by Johannes Herbst, December 12, 2016 at 2:33 pm:

. . . but it seems that a higher concentration of “GHGs aka IR sensiitive gasses” is increasing the downwelling radiation from the bottom of Atmosphere towards surface, therefore making the surface a bit warmer.

Downwelling radiation from the bottom of atmosphere comes from a colder part of the atmosphere towards a surface that is WARMER than that bottom of atmosphere, and so the downwelling radiation canNOT heat the surface, because radiation from cold to hot canNOT add heat. I thought that the downwelling just “joined” the dance at the level of heat already there, since it canNOT add any heat energy to the “dance”.
Thanks for the effort, but I thought this downwelling-adding-heat concept had been well refuted, and the explanation dejur replacing it is (as I would put it) “upwelling slowing of cooling” , which seems equally contrived to create a non-existent barrier to radiation of the whole planet to outer space.
It all sounds quite convincing, but it still does NOT explain the actual physical mechanism by which a CO2 increase of a few parts per million slows down anything significantly.
CO2 absorbs radiation, but it emits it very very fast, and given this speed of emission (picoseconds), and given how few additional CO2 molecules we are talking about, I am not seeing how this speed of emission jives with the elaborate explanation of how the absorption is supposed to raise temperature by slowing cooling, when COOLING seems to be what the CO2 is always doing.
More CO2 molecules seems to imply a greater surface area doing the emitting of the absorbed radiation. And to focus so profusely on the radiation physics seems to deny the overall fluid dynamics physics of the atmosphere. Does radiation physics really dominate fluid dynamics this much? — I guess this is my bottom-line question.
It seems as though fluid dynamics would do most of the heat transfer up to the level that convection occurs, and after that, CO2 would add additional cooling to higher layers, as observations seem to confirm. BUT (notice a big “but”) why does this force the temperature below to be warmer? It seems like the opposite should be the case, that is, the lower layers have cooled all they can by convection and other processes, pushing more CO2 molecules higher to cool the only way they can there.
Hot air rises, sinks, redistributes heat as high up as convection goes, and then the added CO2 in the upper regions cools via radiation. …. More heat means more/faster convection to cool the surface, faster transport of more CO2 to upper regions (now greater in volume) where it cools to space via emission (in proportion to the GREATER volume that it now has up there). Where’s the trapped heat? How did it stay trapped? What’s the mechanism of the trap? .. of the slow down? Where’s the heat?
So many wordy complex explanations ! Who the hell does a person believe? Math seems to be a more creative endeavor than most people think. (^_^)
I’ve either revealed my ignorance more, or I have confused people more, or both.
I predict that, in the future, my name alone will elicit an automatic moderation cue in this forum. Oh well, it’s fun to strive for intelligent dialogue with masters.

Bindidon
Reply to  Robert Kernodle
December 12, 2016 4:11 pm

I propose the lecture of the following post written by Roy Spencer (UAH):
http://www.drroyspencer.com/2016/08/observational-evidence-of-the-greenhouse-effect-at-desert-rock-nevada/

Reply to  Robert Kernodle
December 12, 2016 4:28 pm

Robert Kernodle December 12, 2016 at 3:35 pm
As stated by Johannes Herbst, December 12, 2016 at 2:33 pm:
.” . . but it seems that a higher concentration of “GHGs aka IR sensiitive gasses” is increasing the downwelling radiation from the bottom of Atmosphere towards surface, therefore making the surface a bit warmer.”
Downwelling radiation from the bottom of atmosphere comes from a colder part of the atmosphere towards a surface that is WARMER than that bottom of atmosphere, and so the downwelling radiation canNOT heat the surface, because radiation from cold to hot canNOT add heat. I thought that the downwelling just “joined” the dance at the level of heat already there, since it canNOT add any heat energy to the “dance”.

A 15 micron photon is a 15 micron photon no matter what temperature its source is, a photon emitted at 250K has the same energy as one emitted at 350K, the absorber of that photon does not know the temperature of the source it will absorb them regardless and the energy content of the absorber will increase correspondingly.
CO2 absorbs radiation, but it emits it very very fast, and given this speed of emission (picoseconds),
CO2 which has absorbed a 15 micron photon does not emit it rapidly, the average time for emission is order millisecs whereas the collision time is picosecs so most energy is transferred to neighboring molecules by collisions.

Bob boder
Reply to  Robert Kernodle
December 12, 2016 5:23 pm

Phil
So in the collision the CO2 molecule only transfers energy it doesn’t receive energy too?

Frank
Reply to  Robert Kernodle
December 12, 2016 10:02 pm

Robert Kernodle: You are discussing a very difficult subject. When we talk about doubling the concentration of CO2, we are doubling probability of thermal infrared photons being absorbed by the atmosphere AND doubling the number of thermal infrared photons being emitted by the atmosphere. To a first approximate, these factors CANCEL. However, this isn’t true for photons that escape to space or reach the surface.
The enhanced greenhouse effect from rising CO2 can best be understood by looking at the Schwarzschild equation, which describes how radiation is changed by absorption and emission as it passes through an atmosphere
dI = emission – absorption
dI = n*o*B(lambda,T)*dz – n*o*I*dz = n*o*{ B(lambda,T) – I }*dz
The change in radiation intensity at a particular wavelength (dI) as radiation passes an incremental distance (dz) through an atmosphere (upward in this case) depends on the density of absorbing molecules (n) – GHGs in the case of thermal infrared), the absorption coefficient for the absorbing molecule at that wavelength (o), the Planck function B(lambda,T), the temperature of the molecules (T), and the intensity of the incoming radiation (I).
When the term in brackets is negative, increasing the number of GHGs (n) makes dI more negative, reducing the flux. Upwelling radiation (I) has been emitted from lower altitudes where B(lambda,T) is larger. Therefore for upwelling radiation, increasing n results in a more negative dI and a smaller upwelling radiation. For downwelling radiation, the opposite is true. It is a little known fact that there would be no enhanced GHE if our atmosphere were isothermal. In the stratosphere, where temperature rises with altitude, increasing GHGs increases OLR (a tiny amount), thereby cooling the stratosphere.
If you are not comfortable with the mathematics of the Schwarzschild eqn., the “rising characteristic emission level for photons escaping to space” is a decent alternative.
If you are comfortable with this mathematics, consider the situation in the laboratory, where emission from molecules in the air is negligible compared with the intensity (I) provided by a lamp filament at several thousand K. That allows you to ignore the emission term and from there you can derived Beer’s La for absorption.
You can ask what happens when emission and absorption are equal and dI = 0. I = B(lambda,T ; the radiation has blackbody intensity. The classical derivation of Planck’s Law begins with the assumption that radiation is in equilibrium with “quantized oscillators”. Planck’s Law tells us what the radiation intensity will be when absorption and emission are in equilibrium; Schwarzschild’s eqn tells us how quickly that equilibrium will be approached when they are not in equilibrium. When the density of GHG (n) is high enough and/or the absorption coefficient (o) is large enough, absorption and emission will be in equilibrium because radiation must travel about 100 m upward for the temperature to drop 0.65 K and B(lambda,T) doesn’t change much when T changes only a small amount. The strongest CO2 line is 50% absorbed in 1 m!. However, for weakly absorbed lines, and for strongly absorbed lines at high altitudes, radiation is NOT in thermodynamic equilibrium with the atmosphere.
A final note. It takes about 1 second for the average excited CO2 molecule to emit a photon. In the troposphere, the average excited CO2 is relaxed by collisions long before a photon is emitted. Therefore, the faction of CO2 molecules in an excited state depend ONLY on temperature (the rate of collisional excitation) not on the local radiation field. This situation is called Local Thermodynamic Equilibrium or LTE. Many people mistakenly believe absorbed photons are “re-emitted” and that LTE means absorption = emission. Anytime you read the term “re-emission” of a photon, the writer doesn’t understand what is really happening in the atmosphere.
If you are deeply interested in this subject, I recommend Grant Petty’s $40 paperback textbook “A First-Course in Atmospheric Radiation”. The book has nothing about climate change in it, just the physics of the interaction between radiation and the atmosphere. Good luck.

December 12, 2016 5:46 pm

The excited state of the molecule has to lose energy in the collision equal to the separation between two energy levels (probably rotational), it could receive some translational energy too. Bear in mind that a newly excited rovibronic state will have more energy than ~97% of the neighboring molecules at ~300K.

Trick
Reply to  Phil.
December 15, 2016 6:21 pm

Phil. – Yes, the avg. energy level of a molecule ~kT is that which can be exchanged in an atm. collision. At Earth normal temperatures, kT is appreciably less than separation between vibrational levels (~10 kT) but not the spacing between rotational quantum levels (~1/3 kT). Consequence, except rarely, sufficient energy N.A. to increase a vibrational level only a rotational. A first electronic quantum level increase is around 100 kT so is order of magnitude more rare.

December 12, 2016 6:13 pm

justforumaccesscom December 12, 2016 at 5:23 am
The math is correct.
The IPCC assumes a linear relationship between changes in heating and changes in temperature when changes in temperature are proportional to the fourth root to changes in heating. The consequences of that incorrect assumption are what they are.

This is basically the calorimetry equation, ΔT=C.ΔQ where C is the heat capacity of the absorber, it is linear.

December 12, 2016 6:36 pm

The whole process of absorption and emission and re-radiation at the molecule level is a very complicated phenomenon. I have not found a complete description anywhere and it looks like that you have to be a expert in molecular physics. I have learned through my spectral analyses that the absorption is a very quick process. Here are the percentages of absorption according to the altitude: 10 meters 34 %, 100 meters 67 %, 1 km 90 %, 2 km 95 %, 11 km 97 %, 120 km 100 %. And even though the concentration of CO2 is almost the same up to 80 km, its contribution to the total absorption is over after 1 km. The strong absorption capacity of CO2 in its wavelength zone from 14 to 16 micrometers makes this happen. Actually the relative contribution of CO2 decreases after 11 km, because the ozone starts to absorb in the stratosphere.
As commented above, the clouds and diurnal variation makes this situation even more complex. The downward radiation in the clear sky is 318 W/m2 and in the cloudy sky 359 W/m2. The clouds absorb totally the LW radiation emitted by the the surface, which means that in the conditions of the cloudy sky, there is 100 % GH house effect and this is locally the case 66 % of time. The strong GH effect is not our enemy, it is our friend.

December 13, 2016 1:23 am

Robert Kernodle December 12, 2016 at 3:35 pm
you wrote:
°Downwelling radiation from the bottom of atmosphere comes from a colder part of the atmosphere towards a surface that is WARMER than that bottom of atmosphere, and so the downwelling radiation canNOT heat the surface, because radiation from cold to hot canNOT add heat.°
Yes, it can, and it can be described in a simple way:
In a room, if you have a stove, emitting IR radiation with some hundred °C and on the opposite a cold wall. both are emitting IR radiation, but the stove much more. What matters, is the difference between.
If the wall is warm,the net heat transfer is much less, and you are using less fuel fur the stove to keep the room warm.
If you are standing beneath a cold wall, you can feel the cold. If your are standing beneath a warm stove, you can feel the heat.
Normally we think there is no cold to be felt. Yes but our body has just to produce more heat to keep the skin somehow warm, therefore our skin can feel the cold; Its just more heat loss which it is experiencing.
The thermodynamic law does no describe the different IR radiation amounts from single bodies or fluids, but the net sum of heat.
The same appears with the earth surface and the bottom of atmosphere: Both are emitting IR radiation, the heat transfer depends on the difference of both.
One example: With my IR thermometer I measure the ground = 0 °C, then I measure the cloudy sky: -10°C. So the difference is 10K or 10°C. The cooling of the surface is low.
Now I measure again the ground with 0°C but a clear sky with – 60°. Then we have a difference of 60K or 60°C. We have now a high cooling of the surface.
Yes, radiation goes down to the surface. And the higher it is, the more it reduces the heat loss of the surface. Just simple as that.
One Note: Some people will argue that I can’t measure the downwelling radiation with a IR Thermometer. Possibly not exact in terms of absolute temperatures. But enough to see the difference. The above measurements are real live examples in the winter.
Another note: measuring the clear sky, we see the warming capacity of the GHGs. Even if it’s -60°, it radiates much more downwards than the background radiation of the space, which is about -270°C or only 3K.
So you see the importance of the GHGs: Without them, the heat loss would be over 200°C or 200K more, in that example.
And a third note: If we measure against the cloudy sky, we are not really measuring GHGs. We are measuring mostly the downwelling radiation of the water droplets of the clouds. Water vapor is a GHG, but water droplets or clouds are another cup of coffee, even if they are out of the same stuff.

Reply to  Johannes Herbst
December 13, 2016 3:19 am

Glad to see someone else got their ir thermometer and pointed it up!
According to NASA, the little warmth you get pointing up is from two water emission lines, and you can calibrate it against one of their calibrated stations, and use the measurements for total precipicable water.
But it is still, very cold. Have you checked it throughout the night yet? If you monitor air temp, and the IR sky temp, you’ll find about middle of the night when air temps near dew points, the sky is still 80F colder, but the cooling rate changes.
Proof water vapor regulates night time temps not co2comment image
You can see it here in the 2 step cooling.

December 13, 2016 6:35 am

A big thanks to those who tried to shed insight on my last comment. I appreciate your time and effort.
Isn’t there some saying about when you think you know thermodynamics, you don’t? I really don’t know it that well, and it seems that TRYING to know it is equally as futile as thinking you know it and realizing that you don’t.
Now I think I might be seeing why so many people can sound so equally convincing on opposite sides of the argument. How do we determine who REALLY knows what they are talking about ? This is the dilemma of the layperson today on this subject of human-caused CO2 climate change.
When you see highly credentialed mathematical physicists trashed by other highly credentialed experts, what is a person to think about just this pattern of response alone?
How do you know that a collective of those people trashing these seemingly highly credentialed experts are not just a club of like thinkers who use their technical knowledge to spin their own stories that no layperson could ever understand?
Laypeople need some other measure of seeking out the truth … something beyond equations, something beyond page after page of calculations. I really am hard pressed to trust any of this anymore.
I have to look at the basics, which seem to be — NO hot spot, NO extraordinary warming from a geological perspective (assuming we can trust paleo-climate data), a fertilizing effect of CO2 that seems confirmed more times than not, and a local temporal cooling trend over the past span of years. I also have to begin to seriously question the basics of popular determinants of global heating — relinquishing any hope at all that the very concept of a “global average temperature” can tell us anything meaningful in the tiny range of a couple of degrees. I have to question the adjustment of data that seems unstable — wondering why the very “meat” of scientific confirmation is being continually “re-cooked”.
I see these basics converging on a level of uncertainty that cannot possibly substantiate any fear about highly abnormal human-caused warming due to CO2, and I feel overwhelmed by any detailed explanation that tries to prove explain otherwise. And I would guess that I am not the only person in this boat.
Policy makers cannot use the level of technical detail that I see displayed in this blog — very admirable, but, alas, very obscure to all but the “washed” (if I recall correctly this term from another post that metaphorically referred to people learned in the math and physics of it all).
At the policy level, I am afraid, leaders can start to rely on the wrong things to guide their decisions, like what university the expert graduated from, how many papers he has published, what degrees he holds, … in other words, an over dependency on curriculum vitae, at the expense of not having a clue as to information about the problem (or lack thereof) of interest.

Frank
Reply to  Robert Kernodle
December 13, 2016 4:15 pm

Robert Kernodle asked: “How do we determine who REALLY knows what they are talking about? This is the dilemma of the layperson today on this subject of human-caused CO2 climate change.”
Everyone is personally responsible to himself to make sure you aren’t being fooled by what you read on the Internet. The Internet is a jungle.
If you have multiple sources of information, consider paying more attention to the source(s) who provides useful links or references you can check. Ask for references or find them yourself. (Google Scholar provides access to some papers that would require a university library. Title searches are best.) Check some of the links to be sure that your source has accurately conveyed the content to you. Or buy a real textbook like Grant Petty’s “A First Course in Radiation Physics”.
When I first started reading about climate science, I started at RealClimate. One post about “An Inconvenient Truth” made absurd statements about the unimportance of “correlation is not causation” in CO2 and temperature in ice core data. The same post happened to be bad-mouthing someone named Steve McIntyre and “ClimateFraudit”, so I thought I ought to see what what McIntyre had to say. McIntyre included many links and references (and posted his computer code). So I check McIntyre against RealClimate frequently and decided who was more trustworthy,
McIntyre never had much so say about the physics of climate change, but he said that a new blogger (scienceofdoom.com, “SOD”) was starting a careful review of the basic physics of climate of the type McIntyre would do if he had the time. SOD is widely considered to be a supporter of the consensus, because he refutes misinformation that floats around skeptical blogs. However, he sticks to physics from documented sources and almost never ventures opinions that would clearly characterize him as a supporter or opponent of the IPCC consensus. I found him factual and meticulous, but thought he paid far too much attention to radiative forcing and not enough to convection. Although increasing convection can remove warming from the surface, I finally realized that limits on radiative cooling to space would eventually limit convection. I also realized that many people smarter than myself who disagreed about the politics of climate science held SOD in high regard and were participating in a community where accuracy was important. So, for climate physics (not politics), I’d recommend reading SOD from start in 2009 to inactivity. The host or others still respond to sincere questions about posts written more than five years ago.
However, don’t take anyone’s word for it.
P.S. The flaw in this post is the hidden assumption that the Earth consists of two separate “compartments”: land that is warmed by radiative forcing and ocean that is warmed by radiative forcing. This post calculates climate sensitivity based on the assumption that a constant fraction of radiative forcing goes into warming the land. Unfortunately, as soon as the land starts warming, nothing prevents heat from flowing from the land to the ocean and reducing warming of the land. If we start with a steady-state relationship between land and ocean temperature, and the land starts warming faster because of its low heat capacity, the 2LoT tells us that heat will begin to flow from land to the atmosphere and from the atmosphere to the ocean.
The proper way to calculate climate sensitivity is to treat the planet as a single compartment, where radiative forcing is warming both land and the ocean. Supposedly 93% of the heat retained due to anthropogenic forcing (rising GHGs minus aerosols) flows into the ocean and only 7% is found in the atmosphere and surface. Since this post simply considers forcing per unit area, 30% of the heat goes to the 30% of the surface covered by land. So there is potential for a factor of 4 error here. (The famous skeptic Roger Pielke Sr. was a big advocate of the ARGO program to accurately measure uptake of heat by the ocean. There can be large errors when trying to monitor where only 7% of the heat may be going (it might be 5-10%), but this probably is minor when tracking 90-95% of the heat.
The author also assumes that only 55% of radiative forcing goes into heating the “land compartment” and the rest goes into evaporation. Water vapor heats the atmosphere when it condenses, and that heat warms the planet. So we have a potential error of 8-fold – enough to be in the luke-warmer end of the IPCC’s range for ECS 1.5-4.5 K.
As best I can tell, Mr. Brunt has not responded to a single comment or question asked about his post. That is the simplest way to decide what to believe and what to ignore on the Internet about climate science. If the converse were true (those who do respond are correct), life would be simpler. I’m not sure why Andy Watts provides a forum for people who don’t respond to questions.

Reply to  Frank
December 14, 2016 5:09 am

Brunt appears to be posting as justforumaccesscom

December 13, 2016 7:01 am

micro6500 December 13, 2016 at 3:19 am
I’ve made measurements the whole year over, but not throughout the night. The pattern is always the same, only in summer the temps are generally higher. Clouds make the air temp warmer.
I’m not sure if I only measure Water vapour. I think I have to look in which IR band it operates.
BTW, measuring with a cheap IR thermometer with clear sky is only possible during hot summer, on other days thedownwelling radiation is too cold. But with clouds it works fine, they are about 40-60°C warmer.
Here are a number of good articles of Dr Roy Spencer about downwelling radiaton.
http://www.drroyspencer.com/?s=downwelling+radiation

Reply to  Johannes Herbst
December 13, 2016 8:18 am

I’ve made measurements the whole year over, but not throughout the night. The pattern is always the same, only in summer the temps are generally higher. Clouds make the air temp warmer.
I’m not sure if I only measure Water vapour. I think I have to look in which IR band it operates.
BTW, measuring with a cheap IR thermometer with clear sky is only possible during hot summer, on other days thedownwelling radiation is too cold. But with clouds it works fine, they are about 40-60°C warmer.

Here is the paper on the water.
http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/2011BAMS3215.1
My thermo is rated to -60F, but I don’t think it really has the power to stabilize the sensor, but winter before last I saw a -92F
But, what I found is that at least through the 8-14u optical window, (that hole is always beaming ir into space, and those are the highest energy photons from a room temp source would make), in the morning before sunrise it’s still the 40-60C colder you mentioned, I usually see a drop about the same as the air temp dropped during the night. But if you log air temp, it cools in an exponential rate, it should.
Explained here
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2003GL019137/pdf
But they missed that nightly cooling is automatically regulated as air temp nears dew points, and you can see it in the out going radiation profile.
Since I found the same decaying cooling, as well as that the radiative surface (the sky) that the surface radiated was just as cold to the surface as it was earlier in the evening when the cooling rate was 4 or 5 times higher.
Here’s the results, 3 or 4 clear nights in Australia and everyone shows the net out going radiation rate drop by about half when air temps are at dew point, which happens across the entire planet.
You can see it actively reduce cooling.comment image
I’m working on a proper x axis, but for now you can look at the green line (temp) and see relative times from max and min temp, and net rad gives you a good idea of whether it’s dark or not. This is 3 days of mostly clear skies.

jmorpuss
Reply to  micro6500
December 13, 2016 12:20 pm

Air temperature cannot be measured by an infrared thermometer. Emissivity is a measure of the efficiency in which a surface emits thermal energy. It is defined as the fraction of energy being emitted relative to that emitted by a thermal black surface (a black body).
http://thermometer.co.uk/content/19-infrared-thermometer-guide

Reply to  jmorpuss
December 13, 2016 3:11 pm

Air temperature cannot be measured by an infrared thermometer. Emissivity is a measure of the efficiency in which a surface emits thermal energy. It is defined as the fraction of energy being emitted relative to that emitted by a thermal black surface (a black body).

Wasn’t measuring air temp with my IR thermo, I measure the ground, and the sky, when I measure the sky, that is the radiative surface the ground radiates to, identical as the meter collects, and it collects very very few ir photons, likely all from the 2 water lines between 8u and 14 u. but the two lies if a bb spectrum would be that temperature, 80 to 100F colder than the ground unless humidity is really high.

Reply to  micro6500
December 13, 2016 4:59 pm

What wavelength range does your device use, the water lines you refer to I’d expect to be between 5 and 8 microns?

Reply to  Phil.
December 13, 2016 5:09 pm

8u to 14u, the NASA paper says you can calibrate to one of their sources(if near by ), and it’s basically reading precipicable water column.

jmorpuss
Reply to  Johannes Herbst
December 13, 2016 1:01 pm

Johannes, Heat = the electron at work. The faster it’s moving through a medium and the denser the medium the more resistance, the harder it’s working = more heat .
Electrical current is the flow of electrons through a substance that will permit that flow. The substance is called a conductor. Some conductors are better than others, but none are perfect, and all resist electron flow to some extent. When electron flow is resisted, some of the energy in the electrons does not travel through all the way. Because energy is conserved, the energy that was moving the electrons forward is converted to heat energy. It can also be converted to light energy, as in the filament in a light bulb.
http://www.qrg.northwestern.edu/projects/vss/docs/thermal/3-why-does-electrical-current-make-heat.html
I posted more info jmorpuss December 12, 2016 at 3:12 pm But it takes so long to come out of moderation that the conversation has moved on. Everything above the surface is surrounded by a cloud of electrons.

anon
December 13, 2016 6:35 pm

Over 200 a day read Abstract of this new paper “Comprehensive Refutation of the Radiative Forcing Greenhouse Hypothesis” https://ssrn.com/abstract=2884148

Reply to  anon
December 14, 2016 5:13 am

Dough Cotton is known of trolling a lot of blogs with his special theory. He#s also banned from DrRoySpencer’s blog. Spencer even closed any comments on his blog as Dough Cotton continued massive trolling using several fake names and accounts.

anon
December 13, 2016 6:52 pm

The top post is wrong because you cannot use the sum of solar radiation and atmospheric radiation in Stefan-Boltzmann calculations and expect to get the right answer. You are ignoring the fact that SB is based on the integral of a single Planck function. Radiation cannot be compounded that way. The new paper in my previous comment explains why. Climatologists are seriously mistaken and need to talk to us physicists about the way they use physics like this. The temperature achieved depends on the peak wavelength of a single Planck function (as per Wien’s Displacement Law) and that is the end of the matter and the last nail in the Greenhouse coffin.

December 13, 2016 9:21 pm

The author of that paper has been banned on this blog.