(Note – I saved this for the weekend, when people who might read this would likely be more relaxed. This is not the usual fare for WUWT, but it is something that is revealing, enlightening, entertaining, and educational, while at the same time sad and sunny all at once. If you want science, skip this article. If you want a perspective on life, read on – Anthony)
Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
Warning: Viewer discretion advised. This post discusses adult themes and content. Oh, not the usual adult themes we get on TV, like D: Suggestive Dialogue or V: Violence. Instead, it is a discussion of the following well-known wanted criminal:
Figure 1. The one with many names … the Pale Rider. The Grim Reaper. The Angel Of Death. Thanatos. Azrael. Cronus.
I’ve been thinking a lot about death lately. The gorgeous ex-fiancee is a Family Nurse Practitioner, and she and I have been taking care of her 86-year-old father in his final illness. “Billy”, that’s what the rest of the guys in the band always called him, so that’s what I called him when I came to be friends and play music with him over the past four years. He was a jazz drummer his whole life, and a very good one. Having had the honor of playing music with him myself, I can testify that he was a very skillful, fun, and inventive percussionist. But when he came out of the hospital back in February, he hung up his sticks and said that was it. His time with music was over. I knew then that his days were short. So we’ve been giving him all the love and support possible in the face of his approaching death.
Here in the developed world, we tend to distance ourselves from death. But in the third world, it is ever-present. The first dead man I ever saw who wasn’t rouged, perfumed, and embalmed was on a side street in Trench Town, a dirt-poor, less than fragrant, and more than turbulent suburb of Kingston, Jamaica. It was a strange scene.
Trench Town is not a good place to be at night. Even in the middle of a hot afternoon, it’s a place where you feel a need to take an occasional look over your shoulder. I was walking down the street, the only melanin-deficient guy in sight. (I hear that the new PC term is “melanin-challenged”, by the way, to avoid hurting people’s feelings by making them feel deficient … but then I’ve never been politically correct.)
In any case, halfway down the block, a man was lying in the gutter. At first I thought he was just drunk and sleeping it off, until I got nearer, and I saw he was lying in the proverbial pool of blood. I remember particularly the sound of the flies. I was reminded of when I used to kill and butcher cows and sheep and other animals out in the farmers’ fields for a living, and how fast the flies would appear. Seeing that man lying dead in a cloud of flies, in the middle of just another average city afternoon, was a shock to me. The cities I was accustomed to back then didn’t feature much in the way of dead bodies in the gutter. I was beyond surprise.
But the bigger shock was the reaction of the people in the street. By and large it was ho, hum, another day in the life, step over his corpse and keep going, Many people looked once and didn’t give him a second glance. The public level of concern seemed to be on the order of “It’s the tropics, mon, cover him up ‘fore he stinks”.
I realized then that in such places down at the bottom of the economic ladder, the death of a stranger is no big deal. Oh, I don’t mean that people don’t mourn or grieve their loved ones the way it happens in the industrialized countries. That’s the same everywhere. But in countries where death is more common, countries where most families have lost a child, countries where malaria or some other tropical fever takes away the young and otherwise healthy, everyone lives in much closer proximity and familiarity with death and the dead. Like the song says about a tropical murder,
Nobody talks about it no more, though it happened just a week ago. But people get by and people get high, in the tropics, they come, and they go.
A decade later in the Solomon Islands, my good friend Willie died after a long wasting illness. Willie was a Solomon Islander who was loved by all, and in those fractious, jealous, contentious islands, that says a lot. There was no funeral home in the Solomons then, may not be one now. So family and friends do everything. Willie died in “Number 9”, which is rumored to be a hospital. In reality it is a collection of buildings left over from World War II that vaguely resembles a hospital. From the curbside, that is. If you don’t focus too closely.
I went there as soon as I heard Willie had died. Up close, it’s an ancient, sad collection of sticky hot rooms baking in the sun, most without even fans to cool the patients. I was already sweating before I got inside.
When I went in the room, Willie’s wife was there, weeping. I joined her. We spoke for a bit. She had brought his clothes, she said, to dress him. She wept. I wept. She made no move to dress him. We sweated. We waited. Solomon Islanders are good at that.
After a while, I asked if she wanted help dressing him. Oh, yes, she said. I stood up, and walked over and lifted the sheet off his legs … ah, the legs that used to run had been replaced by bone and parchment. I lifted them up one by one. They were almost weightless. She and I slid them into his pants. Dressing a dead man proved to be much harder than I thought. Perhaps unsurprisingly, their level of cooperation is quite low. I had the crazy urge to apologize to him for moving his legs. Finally the pants were on. After that it was easier. With his pants on, I could take off the sheet entirely. We put his shirt on. I’d been very close with him for two years. I’d never seen either the pants or the shirt before. My sense was that they were “Solomons new”, meaning bought from a Chinese store which imports used clothing by the bale. Willie looked good in his new outfit. I hugged his wife, and left her to her sorrow. It was the first time I had ever touched a dead body.
Tropical death plays no favorites. My friend Turk was in his forties, a local airline pilot. He went into Number 9 to have a doctor look at his hemorrhoids, and never came out … you learn to watch your step very carefully on small tropical islands, and in particular, do your best to never step into a “hospital”.
I was back in the US when my father died. The gorgeous ex-fiancee was his nurse in his final days. He refused an operation for his bladder cancer. Said he wouldn’t leave my beloved stepmother broke, and besides, he’d done everything he wanted to do. He’d been a well-known architect, made money, built the house he lived in, his kids all loved him, things were getting painful, there wasn’t much left to keep him here. Enough, he said. He didn’t want to go to the hospital, he wanted to die at home.
Sadly, bladder cancer is a painful way to die. When the pain got bad, he asked me to see if I could get some pills that he could take to end his life. He was in chronic intermittent but intense pain. I did not want to, but I had no choice, and I set out to do that. I would have said that I could have found the pills, because I’ve always knows lots of people with strange proclivities. But for whatever reason, I was unable to find any downers. I looked for reds, or any kind of barbiturates. I asked my friends in low places and I never got more than a couple of pills.
And so each time I saw my Dad again, and the pain was even worse, I had to confess that I had failed him. It was gut-wrenching, worse each time. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.
The night that he died, the gorgeous ex-fiancee and I went to his house. Again I had to tell him that I hadn’t found the pills … dear friends, he smiled and said what he’d said the other times, that it was OK. It broke my heart. I hugged him and turned away so he couldn’t see my face.
That night I found out how thin the line is between tragedy and comedy. I had brought my guitar, because I knew Dad always loved to hear any of his kids play music. I sat on his bed. He was moaning as the waves of pain rolled over him. I sang for him the songs of his childhood that I knew he loved. I sang him the songs of my childhood that he used to sing to me, as he shifted restlessly and groaned in pain. Finally I was weeping too hard to go on singing, but I kept playing the guitar for a bit. And then I broke down entirely, and the music stopped. I couldn’t play another chord.
He opened his eyes, and he smiled his smile that went so deep, and he said “Oh please, don’t stop playing … I swear I’m not moaning on account of your music!”
We both broke up laughing. I didn’t know I could laugh and weep at the same time. I don’t know how he could laugh and moan at the same time. He fell asleep with without saying another word as I played and wept. What can you do with a man like that?
I left at around ten that night and went home. The gorgeous ex-fiancee said she thought she should spend the night with him. I got up at four thirty and went out commercial fishing, trolling for salmon. Around noon, my dear nurse called on the ship’s radio. I knew what the message was before I got to the microphone. I was glad I was on the ocean. I kept fishing, it calmed and soothed me. I was fishing with my long-time shipmate and fishing partner. He understood my silence.
My mom’s death, on the other hand, surprised everyone. When she knew she was dying of lung cancer, she wrote and asked me to come see her. I was in the Solomon Islands at the time, but that’s not a request you can ignore. I flew to Sedona, Arizona, where she was parking the RV she’d lived in for four years by herself, traveling all around the US. She was 69 at the time. I found out something strange. The main reason she wanted to see me was to find out whether I took my dad’s side of the ancient argument and whether, like him, I blamed her regarding their divorce thirty-four years earlier … go figure. She wanted absolution from me, or at least to know that I didn’t blame her for what happened, thirty plus years in the past.
I told her the truth, that I didn’t have a dog in their fight. I said that I used to think that one or the other of them had done wrong, and to be sure they had each caused the other one a lot of grief and sorrow, they had hurt each other deeply. But by then, I was old enough to know that both of them were just fools whose intentions were good, and that they had both striven in their own way to make it work. The fact that they couldn’t make it work was not important, I knew they’d both given it their best shot. She liked that, and she sent me on my way.
About a week later, she took a fistful of pills and was found dead in the morning. I was glad she found the pills somewhere, lung cancer’s not a good way to go. I was even gladder that she hadn’t asked me to find them for her. The family believed for years that I’d given her the pills because I’d visited just before her death, and they knew I’d tried to find pills for my dad. But I hadn’t given her anything but love and support, as best as I knew how, and at the end of the day no one ever knew where she got the pills.
Later, when we were living again in Fiji, my daughter was about 12. One night, the matriarch of a Fijian family I worked with died. Her daughter, grand-daughter, and son-in-law all worked alongside me for the same company. I took my daughter to the wake, which was the very next day. Without embalmers, tropical funerals are never delayed long. It was late, there were only a few people still there. The night was warm and enfolding. In back of the house was a wooden table. It was spread with a nice cloth. The matriarch lay in state on the table. The family welcomed us. We gave them our best wishes and condolences. I had told my daughter I wanted her to touch the dead woman. She caressed her shoulder. The mom saw it and smiled. I didn’t want my child to be the stranger to death that I had been. Touching a dead person makes it all real.
There’s an old tale about these matters, one that the Fijians understood without ever knowing the story. A man goes to a sage and asks him to write down a good luck charm. The sage gets out his inkstone and brush, grinds some ink, and on a crisp new sheet of rice paper he writes something down, folds it up and gives it to the man. The man opens it and reads it. In exquisite calligraphic script it says:
Grandfather dies.
Father dies.
Son dies.
The man can’t believe it. “What have you done! Did my enemies pay you? This is a curse on my entire family, it’s not a good luck charm!”
“Ah, no, that’s the best good luck charm I can give you,” the sage calmly replied. “If it happens in any other order, that is very bad luck …”
The first person I saw actually die was my sister Kristen. Well, half-sister, but us kids all decided among us early on that half- and step- were out, we were all brothers and sisters. She was about 50 at the time. She’d gone to the hospital to get some tests for intestinal discomfort, walked in the door, and passed out in the reception area. So they checked her, and after testing they decided that they had to do an immediate exploratory operation to see what was wrong. Her mother, who was our beloved stepmother Virginia, and a bunch of us brothers and sisters and I all went immediately to the hospital, to be there when she woke up from the operation.
When the operation was over around noon, the surgeon called us all in. She started talking, and she only got partway through the explanation of the operation before she started crying. She said that a 6-foot section of my sister’s intestines had died, and that was too much of a loss for her to live. She said medicine was powerless. She said when they saw what it was and how bad it was, they immediately closed up and got out to prevent further harm. They did not know why part of her had died, but there was no human power that could save her. She had maybe 24 hours. That was it.
We were stunned. What now, we said. The doctor said my sister was out of the OR and that she would be waking up soon. She’d likely stay awake for maybe an hour or two, perhaps a few more. But then the pain would start, and so she would be on a morphine drip. After that, she’d be awake some but she would mostly sleep. I felt so bad for the doctor. She had all of her knowledge and all of her skills and tools, and here she was, totally powerless. I could see she was shaken, frustrated and sad.
So we were all there when Kristen woke up. Of course, she was glad and surprised to see us. She remembered passing out in the lobby. But she was still kind of groggy. So as she became more alert we mostly made small talk. We told he she’d had an operation. We hadn’t though ahead about who would tell her the bad news, we didn’t have a plan or anything, the usual family deal. Finally she asked what the doctor had said about the outcome of the operation, what they had found … silence.
After a long pause, one of my brothers stepped in. But he kind of danced around the subject. He is a lovely man and he did his best, but he described it in all kinds of generalities, words like “preparing for the end” and “short time” and “so sorry”, and “inevitable”, but nothing concrete. I could see he wasn’t getting through, my sister wasn’t following him.
Finally I couldn’t stand her confusion. I said something like “Kristen, the doctors operated, but they can’t help you. They said that part of your intestines died, and there is nothing that they can do. They say that you will die within a day.”
Silence.
“Can’t be”, she said after a bit of thought. “I feel fine.” She wouldn’t believe me. I repeated that she was certain to die within twenty-four hours, by far the saddest and most final news I’ve ever had to deliver in my life. She looked in my eyes. She didn’t like what she saw. She turned to Virginia. “Mom,” she said, “that’s not true, is it?”
Her mother had to do then what must assuredly be one of the most difficult things that a human being can do. She had to tell her darling, her joy, her only daughter that she had only a day to live. Ah, my friends, I can only fervently wish that no one would ever, ever in their life have to say what she said to her daughter then—Oh, sweetheart, I’m so sorry. The doctors say you only have a day to live. It’s true.
I couldn’t bear watching Virginia say it, how could she bear the saying of it herself?
Silence …
It can’t be true, my sister finally replied.
Yes, it is true, my stepmother said.
It is not true!, said Kristen.
Yes, it is true!
IS NOT!
IS TOO!
They voices had gradually raised until they were almost shouting, and all of us realized at about the same instant that it was such a prototypical grade-school playground level argument, and we all laughed at the absurdity. When death is present in the room, our feelings simply overflow, and tragedy and comedy get all confused and mixed up.
We talked for a while after that. Fortunately none of us had much that was left unsaid with Kristen, we were always pretty honest with each other. She’d been a good kid and was a good woman, and we told her so. So we talked, and even laughed some more. But all too soon, the pain from the operation started hitting her. Pretty soon, I couldn’t take it any more, my heart wouldn’t bear it. In the afternoon, I left her with her mom and the others and went home.
But then in the early evening, my brother called. He said everyone had gone home but him. He said Virginia couldn’t stop weeping, she was beside herself, and another sister had taken her home. He said he had to leave, he needed to do some things and then go to work the next day.
Well, there was no way she was going to die alone. That was not on the list of options. So once again I drove the solitary miles and miles back to the hospital. When I got there she was sleeping. She woke once, but didn’t say anything. She saw me, and it seemed to comfort her, or perhaps that was just my wishful thinking. Death was in the room. I stayed well to the side. Time slowed. I held her hand, and moistened her lips with ice water with the little pink lollipop sponges they use for that, and told her that she’d been a good sister to me and a good friend, and she had been, too. Around two in the morning, her breathing slowed, and then she slipped away.
I found out then that there is an odd kind of peace in being alone in a room with someone who has just died. After all the anguish and the turbulent emotions, the succeeding absolutely inalterable finality of her death obviated the need for any further struggle on anyone’s part. There was nothing more she could do. There was nothing more I could do for her. She was beyond my reach. Death had left the room, and with it, the need for wariness. I sat in the room with her for a while, and wept, and turned off my mind. The silence was so deep it was almost subsonic. If that silence of death had a color, it would be the darkest ebon, the deepest Elvis velvet black. I wrapped the silence around me and listened to my own breath, the only sound in the room.
Then after a while, I pressed the call button, and the doctor came and pronounced her dead.
===========
The main thing that I have learned in all of my curious interactions with the dead and the dying has been to take Death as my advisor. I have learned that Death gives me better advice than anyone. When it comes to sage wisdom, I found that Death beats all the books and advice columnists and psychologists and grief counselors and what all the authorities say. Whenever I’m all in a fluster about how bad things are at the moment, how everything’s going pear-shaped and I just can’t take it, at that time (if I have my wits about me) I’ll I look over my left shoulder and ask Death what he thinks about it all.
By this point, I know what he’ll say. He’ll say no, Willis, don’t worry about this penny ante booshwa. That’s nothing, he tells me … I haven’t touched you yet …
All of us, myself assuredly included, tend to live as though we are immortal. We talk of wasting time as if we had it to waste, when it is our most precious possession and we have so little of it. Taking Death as my advisor cuts through that fatal illusion. He reminds me that my days are numbered, that I need to live every day to the fullest. He tells me to work and play and laugh and produce and treat each hour as though it were my last. He reminds me that I am at war, and I need to acknowledge that this might be my ultimate battle. And as such, it is imperative that I forth to that battle in a warrior’s spirit of true abandon, holding nothing back.
Which brings me back to where I started this roundabout tale, back to William Alfred Schneider, my dear friend Billy, fellow musician, and father-in-law. I finally got to know him after they moved out here. The man was a jazz legend. He got his first gig playing drums in a St. Louis strip joint when he was a teenager in the 1940’s, and never looked back. He was the drummer for Barbara Streisand at the Crystal Palace in St. Louis in the fifties, and was a fixture in the famed “Gaslight Square”. He played with Liberace. He said when “Lee”, as he called Liberace, went on a minimum no-frills tour, he took only two people—Billy, and Liberace’s hairdresser … with Billy smiling his silly grin and slightly emphasizing the word “hairdresser”. Unusually for a man born in the 1920’s, he didn’t care in the slightest what someone did in bed, as long as they could play good music and put on an entertaining show. But he was always ahead of his time.
Billy played with Frank Sinatra, and with Dave Brubeck. He toured with Roger Williams. In the 1950’s Billy was the drummer for “The Nervous Set”, starring the recently-deceased Larry Hagman as the lead singer. It was the first Broadway musical with a jazz quartet instead of an orchestra, Kenny Burrell was the guitarist. Among other innovations of the musical, Billy played the tympani along with his normal jazz drum kit, to fill out the sound. You can hear Billy’s understated musical style on the drums here. The song is a masterpiece of late 1950’s angst, with lyrics that were hilarious in their own way then and now. The musical both celebrated and mocked the dawn of the “Beat Generation”. Jack Kerouac came to a performance. He was drunk, and tried to force his way backstage, they wouldn’t let him in. Billy’s stories went on and on …
He went legally blind a couple of decades ago, macular degeneration. But he was doing OK, still playing music, until his wife had a stroke. She was half-paralyzed and bedridden after that, which was hard on him, and he stopped playing. About four years ago, my gorgeous ex-fiancee talked them into moving to California from St. Louis so we could take care of them. She found a nursing home for her mom, and we found him a mobile home to buy in a nearby mobile home park … he laughed about that. He said it proved he wasn’t trailer trash, he lived in a mobile home. He visited his wife in the nursing home almost every single day until her death a couple of years ago. She was the envy of the place to have a husband like that, all the poor souls in the nursing home who got one or two visits a year were jealous of her. I think he was atoning for previous misdeeds, the man was a jazz musician, and by all accounts a tom cat … but atone he assuredly did, and impeccably. When she needed him, really needed him, he was by her side every day. The only way we could keep him from going was to tell him we’d go ourselves, and we did, week after week, to give him some days off. He paid off all of his debts to his wife with true devotion.
Right up to the end his mind never weakened, and curiously, he was one of the few people with whom I could discuss my climate research. You have to understand that I’m a long ways out of the loop compared to many climate researchers. They typically have some circle of peers around them with whom they can discuss their ideas about the climate—other researchers, professors, graduate students, mentors, people from other departments and fields, they work and publish in teams and groups and can bounce ideas off each other.
I do all of my research alone. Around here, I have Billy and one other guy to talk to, neither one a climate scientist but both interested intelligent layman, and that’s it. So it was always a pleasure to read my work to him. He had me read each piece out loud, and then asked good questions. And we always had the music.
But his kidneys finally betrayed him. His last public appearance was in January, a couple of half-hour sets. He was as good as ever. Almost blind and nearly deaf even with his hearing aids, he never missed a beat. Then he was hospitalized, and they had to re-inflate him with a carload of IV fluids and such. His other daughter came out from Tennessee, she was a huge help during and after his hospitalization. But then, of course, she had to go back to work. She left with our profound thanks.
When Billy came out of the hospital, he told me he wasn’t going to play any more music. I said, you mean not play any more music in public? No, he said, he was done with music … my heart sank. He’d said the same thing when his wife had her stroke, and he didn’t play any music at all for a couple of years back then. But when he moved to California and still wasn’t playing, I knew that if I could get him to play again, he’d live much longer. So I just kept bugging him to play … and finally he gave in. We started to play a bit. I put my keyboard, amplifier, bass, microphone and guitar at his place so he could rock out anytime I or one of his friends was there. But he was kind of half-hearted about it, like he hadn’t made up his mind to get back into it.
And then he met some local musicians, and one of them told him that an old drum student of Billy’s from 50 years ago named George Marsh was now a music professor at the local university. Well, that put the cat among the pigeons. Just the rumor of George Marsh did what I couldn’t do. Billy immediately started seriously practicing, hours every day—Billy Schneider wasn’t going to have his student show up and find his old teacher unable to play the drums, oh, no, that wasn’t on. And so by the time George Marsh (who is now in his seventies and still teaching) made it over to his house, Billy was seriously playing his drums again and had his old chops back. And for the next four years, he played a lot, both with me and with various combinations of other musician friends in his house, as well as playing various gigs again in public as he’d done for so long. He played with a floating jazz group at a local restaurant, you’ve never seen a man so happy as when the band clicked.
Here’s a funny story. Billy met a friend of mine who’s up to his ears in Haitian drumming. So Billy started trading lessons with him, showing him jazz drumming in exchange for being taught something about Haitian drumming. Here’s the crazy part. My friend was taught Haitian drumming by a man named Kendrick. Kendrick was a very good drummer with sticks as well, in part because at the start of his drumming career he’d once spent six months on the waiting list to become for several years a student of George Marsh … who was, of course, taught drums by Billy himself, and so the circle was complete.
So when Billy announced he was hanging up his sticks, my heart grieved, I knew his time was short … not good news. Curiously, he told me that in some ways it was a great relief, because the music had always been a burden for him. I understood what he meant. I’m a musician, but not like him. I never practiced, even when I was making my living playing music. I just played and played and played, Oh, sometimes I’d play one song over and over for three hours, but I never called it practice. You’re doing the same thing, but from a very different point of view of music. I hate to practice, and I love to play, despite the fact that they’re the same. In my opinion, they call it “playing music” for a reason—because it’s not ever supposed to be work or practice. My aim is to play music like children play their games, for the simple joy of the sound and the passion of creating something stirring and moving and lovely.
But Billy was old-school. For him, there was practice, and there was performing. Billy had always driven himself to practice, a minimum of three hours a day until the day he quit. It was why he was so good. And now, he said, he was just tired to the bone. He didn’t want to practice like that any more … and if he couldn’t practice three hours a day, he wouldn’t play at all.
I told him that was OK by me. I told him he’d played music for people all his life, and all they’d had to do was sit back and listen. I said that now I could return the favor. I’d play, and all he had to do was listen. He laughed, he liked that plan. We joked about him being my captive audience. And so when I visited, I played for him the tunes that he and I had played together, over the following weeks, as he lay back in his easy chair. We talked about everything, including his impending death.
His health got worse and worse. The doctors said that he was a candidate for dialysis. But like my father, he refused treatment. His music was done, he said, and he’d had enough of being old and blind and deaf and most of all, he was just so tired. The only medical treatment he said he wanted was a morphine drip if things got bad.
For a while he could still take care of himself. We begged him to come live with us, but he was fiercely independent. His proud warrior’s spirit refused to let him to leave his mobile home even after he began to fail. So about two weeks ago, the gorgeous ex-fiancee and I moved in with him in shifts, with her there one night and me there the next. He was mostly sleeping. His voice grew less clear, with gaps in the words. I was reminded of times in the past when some friend and I were talking on our fishing boat radios, and my friend was in a boat going over the horizon. As the boat moved farther away, my friend’s words became indistinct, with static and gaps like Billy’s words, and both of us saying, Do you copy, do you read me, over? … I could see Billy was frustrated that his body wouldn’t obey him. It wasn’t that his mind couldn’t form the words. It was just that he was sailing over the horizon, and slowly getting too far away to send back final communications to those left behind on the shore …
When the pain got bad, his loving, ever-patient nurse, my dear wife, got him a prescription for morphine … and we dripped it into his mouth, just a bit from time to time, like he’d wanted. I think the fear of the pain was worse than the pain itself, and the morphine eased both his body and his mind.
On Friday night, he was nearing the end. I went down to his place, and my dear lady went home to feed the cat and get some sleep. It was proper. She had been at my father’s bedside when he died, and on that night long ago I had gone home. So it was right she should go home now. After she left, I put on some of Billy’s recordings from back in the day, the soundtrack from “The Nervous Set”, recordings he’d done with other musicians. I held his hand, and stroked his head. I sang to him. I told him he’d been a good husband and father, although neither were strictly true. But like my own mom and dad, he’d done his best with the poor interpersonal tools that were to hand in the 40’s and 50’s, and that’s all I could ask.
When I could feel his death approaching, I made myself small and turned sideways. I’m very careful when Death is in the room. First off, if you look at that joker’s eye-sockets, you can tell right away that his vision isn’t of the finest. Plus, his record isn’t that sterling either. It’s because he grew up outdoors, that’s my theory at least, where there’s plenty of room to swing a scythe. As a result, too often he’s been known to misunderestimate the distances involved inside a house, so his scythe bumps the refrigerator on the backswing or something, and as a result the blade hits the wrong man, and boom—Dick Nixon lives for another 117 years, and some good guy ends up dying young.
And although these days I’m mostly out of danger in that regard, being neither that young nor that good, I did not want to get mistaken for Billy right about then.
But Death found the right man, in my opinion at least, and probably in Billy’s opinion as well, and he died around nine o’clock. His breath went out, and it never came back. I leaned over and kissed his cooling forehead. His other daughter later said that for years, he’d had an evening gig, and the second set always started at 9:20 … that made sense. Much as he would have liked to stay and talk to me, he had to leave, the boys were headed back to the bandstand, Barbara Striesand was already on stage, the next set was about to start …
So I turned off his old recordings, and once again, I found myself sitting alone in a silent room with someone I’d just watched die. Again I wept. And again I took solace in the profundity of the silence, and in the soothing fact that there was nothing pressing any more, no urgency, nothing he needed to do, nothing I could do for him.
Then, when the time of silence was over, I went to do the necessary tasks. But of course, as I have learned in my life, death often brings both tragedy and farce, and this was no exception. Earlier in the day I’d called the mortuary, to see what the procedure was for them to pick up his body. The Mortuary Lady said they couldn’t pick him up without a Death Certificate. OK, I said, how do I get one of those? Oh, she said, you can’t do it, his doctor has to sign it.
Mmmm … but what if his doctor is out of town? Because, you know, he is out of town. Until Monday. And Billy will likely die before then.
Well, she said, after he dies you should call the County Coroner. They will send a doctor over to sign the certificate. They always handle that. It’s not a problem
So I did … but being a skeptical fellow, I did it right then, I didn’t wait until afterwords. I told the nice Coroner Lady the situation. She said oh, no, we don’t handle dead people at home in bed. You should call the Sheriff’s Department. They always handle that. It’s not a problem.
So I did, right then. But the nice Sheriff Lady said they didn’t deal with dead people at home in bed. She said just call the emergency number 9-1-1. They always handle that. It’s not a problem … I guess not many people die at home with their family any more. Eventually my doctor said, just call the local police. They’ll know what to do. So after I’d sat in the silence in his bedroom for a while, I did that very thing.
However, the nice Police Lady said that unfortunately, his passing had to be classified as an “Unattended Death”, all capitalized and everything, because there was no doctor present. Again I was reminded of the difference between the first and the third world. What we call “an Unattended Death” they call “a death”—the presence of a doctor is a rarity, and absolutely not a necessity. In any case, the nice Police Lady said that she was sorry, but since his doctor was out of town, they’d have to send a detective out to investigate the Unattended Death for signs of foul play … plus of course the Emergency Medical Technician had to come out to to make sure he wasn’t still alive.
The mind works strangely at such times. I was tempted to say that it was clear that he wasn’t pining for the fjords, and that I took “didn’t breathe for the last fifteen minutes” as kind of a clue to his general state of animation, but I forbore … I could see that I was now just a pawn in the bureaucratic machinery. I had entered the zone where it didn’t matter what I said or did.
The detective turned out to be a pleasant young man. Clearly, however, he was hoping that this would turn out to be the crime of the century, that I’d just snuffed Howard Hughes or something. He came in, and first thing, we had to fill out some paperwork. I figured he’d want to see the body first, but no, it’s the government. Paperwork first, last, and in between, it’s the way we render modern death sterile and unthreatening.
While we were doing that, the EMT wagon arrived. I’d asked the nice Police Lady if they could leave the lights and sirens off to avoid disturbing the neighbors, and they did so. The EMT came in and went in the bedroom to see the body. He came out and told us that Billy was really most sincerely dead. He had a whole other set of paperwork, which I signed, and he gave his condolences and left. But of course he couldn’t sign the Death Certificate, so I’m not sure what his purpose was.
After the paperwork was done, the Detective said he wanted to see the “scene”. He did manage not to call it a “crime scene”. We went into the bedroom. He took out his camera and said he was sorry, but by law he had to take pictures for the record. I said I understood. He asked me to take the covers off of Billy’s body. I could see that he was disappointed to find out that it was just an ancient dead man weighing about 80 pounds, call it 35 kg, with pipe stem legs and sunken eyes, and not a crime victim of any kind. So the Detective took his pictures. And knowing that it made absolutely no sense, I put the covers back on Billy and tucked them in around him because it was night time, and I didn’t want him to be cold. We are truly bizarre creatures, we humans …
Then the Detective asked if I had a measuring tape. He said he had to measure the distance of the body from the walls of the room for his sketch of the scene, but he didn’t have a tape … I got the tape measure. Somewhere in there, it seems the gears in my mind had stripped entirely, and I found myself wandering around the bedroom, numbly measuring how far it was from the walls to Billy’s body while the detective wrote down the numbers … life is endlessly strange. Somewhere in the bowels of the local Police Department there is an official “Unaccompanied Death” form with a sketch on it showing that William A. Schneider aged 86 died approximately nine feet from the south bedroom wall of his mobile home, and about seven feet from the east bedroom wall …
When all that was done, all the measurements and pictures taken, all the papers signed, I asked the Detective if now the mortuary folks could pick him up.
The Detective said no, first I had to get the Death Certificate …
I wanted to pound my head against the wall, but I was afraid I wouldn’t feel a thing if I did. It was that kind of evening. So I told the Detective the whole story, about the Mortuary Lady, and the County Coroner Lady, and the Sheriff Lady, and the Police Lady, and my Doctor’s advice, and he took pity on me. He called his boss, and she called someone she knew at the Coroners Office. In about five minues she called him back and said OK, Billy could be moved, the doctor could sign off when he returned on Monday.
So the Detective told me the body could go, and he gave his condolences. He was sincere and kind and professional throughout, and I thanked him for that and said I knew he had to do what he had done, and I was glad it was him that had done it. When he left I went back inside and called the mortuary.
Soon, the folks from the mortuary arrived. They brought a gurney. The mobile home was tight quarters. They had to stand the gurney on end to get it around the corners to his bedroom. I couldn’t figure out how they would get him out, there was nowhere near enough room. They wrapped him in a white shroud and put him on the gurney. Then they started lashing him on, with three webbed belts. I left the bedroom and sat down in the living room to wait.
When they came out of the bedroom, I found out that the gurney folded down, and it had wheels on one end, so they could use it like a hand truck. They came breezing out of the bedroom, wheeling him on what looked just like a hand truck, wrapped in white in a standing position. Their sudden appearance was so bizarre, they were moving fairly fast, or perhaps I was moving fairly slow, but in any case they looked for all the world like museum curators on the Discovery Channel merrily rolling one of the mummies to a new display location …
I must confess, I broke out laughing at sudden appearance of Billy disguised as a mummy on wheels in some museum. The attendants looked at me strangely, but I suppose they’d seen all kinds of grief, so they just keep wheeling the mummy on out to the van. Yeah, I know, I’m likely going to hell for laughing right then, but I knew that Billy would have seen the humor in it. He was a rascal and a gentleman and a rogue, crabby and thoughtlessly hard on the women in his family who loved him nonetheless, a wonderful musician and a bad family man who somehow managed to successfully raise a couple great girls to productive adulthood, and always someone with a deep sense of humor and a profound enjoyment of the ridiculous, inane, bizarre things of this world. He’d have laughed at the mummy image. My old shipmate, the one I was fishing with when I heard of my father’s passing thirty years ago, remarked on Billy’s death, “We don’t grieve for him. We grieve for our own loss, that he’s no longer around to laugh with us.”
Anyhow, that’s why my mind has been revisiting the topic of death lately. I have no great insights gained from all of this, except to keep listening to Death’s excellent advice, and to keep the gas pedal firmly pressed to the floor. Oh, and what George Marsh told me. He said he’d been meaning to get over to see Billy again, he’d been invited, but this and that had gotten in the way, time went by, and now Billy was dead … he said he wasn’t ever going to let that happen again if he could help it.
After Billy’s death, I went for some long walks on the cliffs overlooking the ocean with my gorgeous ex-fiancee, and we let the immensity of the water and the insistent wind and the endless waves wash away the sorrow and the struggle of the last few months. We both fished commercially together, we both are children of the waves. We saw a whale spouting far out in the vasty deeps—there is no better balm for the heart than untamed wildness.
I give my good lady immense props for her role in all of this. She has been the captain of our good ship since the first day, I was just the crew. And having skippered my share of boats, I assure you that crewman is by far the easier job. Crewmen sleep well at night, while the skipper tosses and turns and considers tomorrow. Billy was not always nice or kind to her or her sister, but they both bore up under it without complaint to him, and simply kept supporting him and her mother in every way they wanted and needed, from before the time they moved out here until their deaths. I told that good woman that she was the perfect daughter, that she did everything they needed and more, and that she had done it with style and with a warm and open heart. She has my profound admiration and undying thanks for her unwavering support of both of our parents in their extremity.
My conclusion from all of this? Hold your family and friends close, remember to taste the strawberries, play your own music whatever that might mean to you, and do what you love … because the night is never far away.
Best regards, and thanks for coming on the journey. Everyone grieves differently. This time around, writing seems to be part of how I do it. Tonight, the midnight moon is nearly full, with a single band of altostratus on one side of the sky and a hint of summer in the air. The coyotes are mumbling to each other on the far ridge, the saw-whet owl is sharpening his lethal blade. The intoxicating smell of the lemon tree in the yard lies thick on the dark air. The moonlit forest around my house is alive with unseen eyes, predator and prey alike, hidden death on all sides for rabbits and mice … stay well, dear friends, life is far too short.
w.
William A. “Billy” Schneider
Jazz drummer extraordinaire
1928-2014
He lived and died surrounded by his music
and loved by his family and friends.
Sleep well, my dear companion.
Willis Eschenbach says:
April 22, 2014 at 4:17 pm
My dad put up with friends trying to convert him during the last of his 92 eventful, adventurous years, but he too found it strange that they tried to save him. His mom was a Presbyterian & his wife a Baptist, so he had been forced to wade through swamps of Calvinism his entire life. It wasn’t as if he hadn’t heard the Good News. He had, ad nauseum, & rejected it long ago & for good. He was easy going in his atheism, inquisitive & open minded, however. He was surprised that I thought one Joshua, son of Joseph of Nazareth probably actually lived in 1st century Galilee & was crucified in the Roman province of Judea.
I hope these comments have wised up some prospective proselytizers as to proper behavior here.
johanna says:
April 22, 2014 at 4:13 pm
Coward? You liar, I never called her a coward, and you know it. That’s just your nasty man-hating nature coming out. YOU are the first person in this thread to utter the word “coward”, and true to your ugly nature, you pretend that I made such an accusation. I neither said nor implied anything of the sort, nor do I believe she is a coward. She, like all of us, gets to choose where to engage with people, and gets to live with her choices. Here is what I actually said, so people can see how you try to twist my words. Someone asked me if I would hang around after being told in no uncertain terms that I was being inappropriate, and I replied:
I said it was bad strategy and bad tactics to do what she did. I never said nor implied that she is a coward, and it is vile and underhanded of you to accuse me of it.
Next, yes, the rest of your statement was correct. As you said, she was crass and intrusive. True. As you said, I told her to f*** off, not in those words, but true. And as you said, when I cooled down, yes, I apologized for where I was over the top. Also true. Thank you for confirming the events under discussion. But I never called her a coward. That’s all you.
johanna, I gotta ask you. Is there some kind of “Bats-signal” that people flash whenever I say something less that idolizing about some woman somewhere? Because you always seem to turn up to defend the woman with all your might and main, regardless of the facts of the case.
The part I gotta ask is, do you see how you are perpetuating the stereotype of the “weak woman”?
Me, I think Janice is perfectly capable of defending herself if she chooses. She’s a grown woman, she can handle it.
But most folks here have taken the opposite tack. They seem to think she is weak and incapable of supporting and defending what she said.
The corollary to that, of course, is that poor weak Janice needs a big strong man to defend her … and true to form, lots of big strong men have jumped up and said Oh, let me protect the weak woman, I can do it, I’ll defend her against the baaad Willis. And of course, having strong men jump up to protect the “fragile flower” just strengthens the stereotype.
But you’ve put your own bizarre twist on it. You buy in totally to the “weak woman” stereotype, but you think she needs a big strong woman to defend her, so as soon as you get the Bats-signal, you come out here to try to stuff words in my mouth that I never said …
Do you see how you are strengthening and perpetuating the stereotype, johanna? There’s no need and no call for you to be sticking your big nose into her business. I didn’t notice her asking for you to be her champion. I didn’t see her asking anyone to defend her words, and indeed, she has chosen not to defend them herself. So why have you taken to wearing the fair (albeit weak in your opinion) lady’s sleeve as a token of affection on your jousting armor? For all she has said here, she (like me) may have regretted immediately what she said, and doesn’t want anyone defending her … who knows? Not you and I …
None of that makes her a coward, nor does it make her weak. It’s a choice she’s made and I’m happy with it … or if she chooses to change it and defend what she wrote, that’s fine too.
So how about you stop endlessly perpetuating the “weak woman” meme, and find some weak man somewhere that needs protecting? You’re perfect for the role, you’ve got the spiel down pat, just scratch out “woman” everywhere in your script and substitute “man”, and you’re good to go.
w.
PS: Any chance he might have had of adopting Christianity was squelched by the exploitation he observed of Alaskan, Yukon & NWT Eskimos & Indians by missionaries while flying around the North in a Ford Tri-Motor as a teen in the ’30s.
IMO you replied to Janice just as you would have to a male interloper, making you an equal opportunity anti-proselytizer, of which fact Johanna ought to approve.
From the top, willis references…
Instead, it is a discussion of the following well-known wanted criminal: Mr Death
I just got done expending a bunch of sweat and tears to tell a detailed, complex, moving true account of my own personal life.
Up jumps Janice, and she wants to hijack what I’ve written. She starts twisting my true account of my own life into…
I took a long time and a lot of effort to craft a powerful story, and she wants to jump in and use the drama and the strength and the pathos and passion of my story for her own personal, private, parochial religious ends. I’m sorry, Mark, but that’s plagiarism and worse. I will not let her ride on my work that way. I will not let her twist my words in that fashion.
But I will not have her stealing my heart-felt song of life and death for her own religious purposes.
Willis Eschenbach says:
April 19, 2014 at 12:52 pm
Next, I won’t let someone use my stories about my life to sell their personal beliefs.
Approx…
10 pages misc deaths/anecdotes re: willis’ life
6 pages on Willis/Billy
4 pages on the services etc rigmarole getting him certified dead and over to mortuary
A search of the word eulogy produces the first approx 52 comments in by Weathep, Willis using it, only after a couple of references preceding his, approx 100 comments in
If you ask me part autobiography, part obituary, open for discussion/contributions of whatever one feels moved to make
davideisenstadt says:
April 21, 2014 at 1:07 pm
Now that was funny.
Do not press down upon the brow of commenting this crown of thorns!
Mark Bofill says:
April 22, 2014 at 1:23 pm
For me, it’s not in-fighting. It’s just WUWT as usual, lot’s of folks, lots of opinions … what’s new?
As to “over what”, we are discussing proper behavior in regards to a grieving man giving a eulogy. I hold that it’s not the place or the time to try to sell him your religion. Nor is it appropriate to attack the man’s beliefs at such a time, and tell him he’s listening to a liar, his beliefs are all wrong, and he will never find lasting peace and hope.
A number of people here say they think what Janice did is fine, which is bizarre to me given what Janice actually did … but when I ask if it would be equally appropriate to do what Janice did, by saying to a grieving Christian giving a eulogy for a Christian family member that Jesus was a liar, and he will never bring them lasting peace, and their beliefs are all screwed up … well, at that point they disappear. All of a sudden they are struck dumb, and rightly so. They never, ever in their lives thought of it that way. It’s what I referred to as “Christian glasses”, they make everything Christian look all rosy and wonderful, even when it’s not.
However, new contestants keep popping up … but I’m a patient man, and I do want people to understand how unthinkingly offensive their Christian “compassion” is at times. To a non-religious person like myself, who gets bombarded with Christian messages day in and day out, this is an important issue.
So … there’s no reason for any of this to depress you. It’s a non-religious person taking exception to the aggressive panhandling techniques of the Christians, and asking people to take off their Christian glasses to notice how mindlessly intrusive Christians can be …
And no, I’m not talking about all Christians. Most are not out proselytizing for converts at the eulogy of an atheist and trying to sell Jesus to a grieving man … but the bizarre part is, even when it is pointed out, they still don’t see that as an intrusive action. They don’t see it as crass and unfeeling.
They don’t get it, at least, until I say, how would you like it if I went to a Christian eulogy and told the grieving man that Jesus was a liar who could never bring him lasting peace? Is that a compassionate act? … like I said, that’s when they disappear, so I’m hoping to vanish them all …
Naw, not really … but I do wish more of them would take off their Christian glasses. I’m just reporting what “Christian compassion” all too often looks like and feels like from the point of view of the poor unwilling recipient… and it’s not pretty, folks
Thanks for your comment,
w.
“He’d use his grief as a cloak.”
Bye.
milodonharlani says (April 22, 2014 at 4:48 pm): “He was surprised that I thought one Joshua, son of Joseph of Nazareth probably actually lived in 1st century Galilee & was crucified in the Roman province of Judea.”
This takes me decades back to my college years, when I took a summer class in comparative religion. Among our guest lecturers were a minister, who claimed that history had verified the existence of Jesus, and a rabbi, who claimed history had not. 🙂 Amused, I added that disagreement to my long list of things to look up “someday”. Prompted by your comment, today I did just that. For what it’s worth, wiki agrees with you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
Fun fact: Typing my search term into Google, I got as far as “roman records” when autocomplete added “of jesus”. Must be a popular search, at least around Easter. 🙂
johanna says:
April 22, 2014 at 2:30 pm
Sure. As far as I know, you’ve never cast yourself as the savior of downtrodden men. You’re welcome to prove me wrong, of course …
Also … see my more detailed answer above.
w.
PS—Of course, johanna, you are 100% correct about the “always”. Such sweeping statements are always wrong … I should have said “johanna loves to cast herself in the “savior of downtrodden women” role”, that would have been more accurate. My apologies, moving too fast.
Gunga Din says (April 22, 2014 at 5:20 pm): ‘“He’d use his grief as a cloak.”’
Best not to poke a porcupine, cloaked or not. 🙂
willis,
johanna never wrote that you called Janice a coward, so what ya going on about? fake indignation
Willis – I wouldn’t walk away from it, as doing that strongly suggests that you think that people’s objections are correct but are unwilling to admit it.
me… er isn’t that your hint her action/inaction is cowardly, could be the basis of johanna’s question, you know, a question, asking if u think….., as it’s surely a subtle possibility
Joanna ….”keep diggin, pal” said with earthy tones (nice one)
methinks he doth protest to much
milodonharlani says:
April 22, 2014 at 5:09 pm
thanks.
theres nothing worse than having what you think is a good joke go over like a lead balloon…
Gary Hladik says:
April 22, 2014 at 5:21 pm
That’s pretty funny. I tried it & the top autocomplete was the same.
In college, an atheist friend of mine argued for a conspiracy by the Church to destroy the portions of Tacitus’ account of the Roman siege of Jerusalem which might have borne on both the historicity of the (then decades dead) Jesus & the early, Jewish phase Christianity (although Paul, missionary to the Gentiles, was already himself probably dead in AD 70). I OTOH was willing to consider that those pages just happened to get lost, as with so much else of ancient literature.
Gary Hladik says:
April 22, 2014 at 5:21
Thanks Gary and [s]milodon for the stories. Other people’s lives and families are always amazing.
Also, interesting Wiki article. Mostly, I liked the word “historicity”, never heard that word before … the best thing about this life is that there is always more to learn. Makes me want to investigate the relative elasticity of historicity …
w.
Just to correct you willis, big strong men have jumped up to defend the truth, not the women, or the men, the truth, willis – google it.
My sad parting comment in this thread.
{apology to McLean’s American Pie}
John
P.S. – where is your apology to Nancy, who you used Michael Mann like tactics to attack personally, rather than what she said.
Nancy answered your accusations directly by identifying herself. Still waiting for an apology from the serial accuser with a ponytail, which differentiates him from MM..
Willis said:
PS—Of course, johanna, you are 100% correct about the “always”. Such sweeping statements are always wrong … I should have said “johanna loves to cast herself in the “savior of downtrodden women” role”, that would have been more accurate. My apologies, moving too fast.
———————————
Yep, that’s Wlillis, just making it up as he goes along.
John Whitman says:
April 21, 2014 at 3:47 pm
Sorry, John, but I read so many comments during a given day, and so many of them are from aliases, and I interact with literally hundreds of people all over the web, that I fear I make little attempt to draw complete pictures of who said what on some other thread, and what that means about their beliefs.
So I had no idea you were labeled by theists as an atheist. Now johanna can beat up on me for making that assumption, she’s still trying to squeeze a few last miles out of the fact that I didn’t know Hilary was Jewish, so this should give her new ammunition and she can stop using Hilary to beat me over the head … mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
Indeed.
Thanks for that explanation, John. That being the case, let me relate that to a modern permissive parent who is totally concerned about the self-esteem of their precious little snowflake Tommy … so when little Tommy starts smashing someone else’s furniture on a visit, the parent says something like “Oh, please don’t be upset with him, I just accept it, it’s the only way he knows how to express his emotions, and I don’t want him to feel bad about himself …”
John, if that’s the only way they know to express their emotions, then someone needs to shake them and wake them up and tell them that they are smashing the furniture. It doesn’t do either Tommy or Janice any good to excuse their excesses on the basis of “It’s OK, they don’t know any better”.
If they don’t know, then they should find out, and sooner rather than later. Letting them run their number without protest is not helping either Tommy or Janice—quite the opposite, it is very damaging to them. All that happens when you do that is they continue to unknowingly break other people’s furniture …
Thanks as always for your comments, ever interesting.
w.
johanna says:
April 22, 2014 at 6:02 pm
And now, heeeeere’s johanna, the big strong woman standing up once again for the poor downtrodden weak woman who can’t defend herself without someone’s help … Dang, johanna, you’re determined to prove me right.
johanna, stop pretending that Nancy is a weakling who is incapable of asking me for an apology. She, like you and Janice, is a grown woman who can speak for herself. If she asks me for an apology for something I said, I’m more than happy to discuss it with her… but I’m going to hold the discussion with the organ grinder, not the monkey.
And Nancy? Nancy is just as off base as you, she also thinks Janice is a hothouse flower that needs a strong woman to protect her … Nancy wanted me to apologize to Janice for the fifth time. For the fifth damn time! Is there no satisfying you harpies?
And I told her the exact same thing that I just told you. If Janice wants an apology, I’m more than happy to discuss it … with her. Not with Nancy. Not with you. With Janice.
What is it with you? Do all of you need a spokesmodel to make your demands for apologies?
w.
PS—Who is this guy with a pony-tail you keep babbling about? Jesus? Willie Nelson? Because it sure ain’t me, I never had the ponytail habit in my life …
REPLY: I can vouch for that, Willis has no pony tail – Anthony
I was the first to post on this thread, but I would like to explain why. When I said Willis should enter his piece in a short story competition, I meant it of course. But seeing his response to Janice, whom I saw no deliberate insult to Willis, it reminded me of the times when I taught creative writing. Some wannabee writers, amateurs, have to abide by certain technical writing tools. Every short story should have a beginning, middle and ending. That makes up a story, but the ending can be in the beginning of course and flash back the rest. Some have absolutely no talent when they start to recall anecdotes about their personal feelings on a subject or happening. They become almost personal reflections and like a diary entry and no interest to other audiences. This piece has sparked some sympathy but also religious diatribe.
When you try to give some constructive criticism, they behave like Willis. Writing is very personal to them to reveal their inner feelings. It is good therapy too, and I used encourage some writers who had no intention of being published, just to share it with me. By doing this it allowed them to exorcise some demons that were haunting them. Especially about injustice or abuse in their early life. Sadness from the loss of a dear pet.
Fiction is so much more fun, when you make up composite characters with real people in mind, and kill them off or afford them their just desserts. (Like M.Man LOL) That’s why they say the pen is more dangerous than the sword.
Willis you are no Hemingway, but everyone can relate to the death of a loved one, but your responses have to be handled less aggressively. And Johanna, Pam and Janice, I’m with you.
And some here are mixing it to make this simple story of bereavement into a heated debate about
religion and personal bitterness against religion. Remember it is the singer not the song and some of you have shown up as bigots. And Janice don’t respond.
And Willis if you enter this story into a competition it will not get past the slush pile.
Let’s get back to climate change and AGW. And Willis get off your soap box, there is no absolute.
Johanna, like I said, I know the mindset of the evangalist (as in been there, done that). The minute Willis responded as he did, she began dealing with the opposing issues presented in biblical text and trying to figure out how to undo the offense. There are many opposing biblical views about what one should do when the attempt to convert has backfired. For example, causing another to sin because we put a stumbling block in their path is a bad thing to do, versus, we are to wipe the dust from our sandals if the house we offend turns us away. Or go out and make disciples versus pray in private. Or be in this world but not of this world. There are many examples of this dichotomy and leaves the well-meaning evangalist twisting this way and that to get out of the sticky situations they find themselves in. Most apologize for offending. Some do not. And all, I fear, never apologize for evangalizing.
So yes, in her mind, I am betting a good solid bet that she backtracked to the apologize for offending stage and is just trying to figure out how to do that. I doubt she will take the real step. But if she does, my hat is off to her. In any event, I have no doubt at all she is sorry she has offended.
Well Willis your sensitivity regarding religious people, must affect you more than others. I know many religious people of different faiths, I have ‘witnesses’ that drop me off the occasional ‘Watch tower’ and I invite them in for a cup of coffee. They are lovely people, and we have become friends over the 10 years. He gave me a essay (he has a Ph.D in ancient history) he wrote explaining the creation and how the six days in Genesis was wrong. As an evolutionist my only criticism, he should have referenced more than the bible as what he had written was very close to what I feel too. So sometimes some people quote biblical text to try to reinforce the meaning.
I have no liking for the SDAC, as my only granddaughter is not allowed to communicate with me, or me her, because I am an evolutionist. That to me is not Christian or putting me down as a non believer.
Pamela Gray says:
April 22, 2014 at 7:14 pm
If truly sorry & repentant, then why does she keep trying to evangelize?
bushbunny says:
April 22, 2014 at 6:56 pm
Who is the bigot, she who assumes that I can’t possibly be happy, good or decent, let alone saved, without embracing the blasphemous lies of Janice’s anti-reality cult, so make it her duty to impose her abject drivel on us (even more inappropriately in a science blog than in the physical world of unwanted, uninvited Jehovah’s Witnesses at the door), or those of us who object to this insulting attitude?
Milo, well Jesus may not have started Christianity, but Paul did. They both preached. Your last post assumes that Janice is blasphemous, come on that is bigotry. Well in my book anyway.
I don’t know which country you are a citizen of, but in the USA, Britain and Australia religion is separate from State. They are not a theocracy, so don’t wear a crucifix in Saudi Arabia or you will be arrested. And don’t drive around Jerusleum in a car on their sabbath, in the orthodox sector, or you will be stoned. Luckily we have freedom for most religious practices. But we are not forced to follow any one religioun, as it was in the 16th century. Didn’t the people who came to America on the May Flower were escaping religious persecution. And it still goes on today.
Religious tolerance is one of the things missing on this thread, I am ashamed to say.