A pointed question

Robert B. writes via email with a question that we’ve just never asked readers to weigh in on here before in post, though has been bandied about in comments. I figure it is about time to put it to rest by asking up front.

He asks: 

What is the perfect temperature of Earth?  I’m assuming that climate change-related taxes will be used to bring our planet back to the perfect temperature, and I need to know when that has been reached.

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March 8, 2014 1:20 am

What is the perfect temperature of Earth?
This is an important question. I think he meant “what would be the perfect average temperature of the planet earth”? A related question is “what should be the level of CO2 in the atmosphere”?
I think that the earth needs to warm at least 10C and that CO2 should increase to about 1500 ppm. “For most crops the saturation point will be reached at about 1,000–1,300 ppm under ideal circumstances.” (from greenhouse experts on what level to have in your greenhouse)
“There were crocodiles above the Arctic Circle and palm trees in Alaska.” Studies show that the earth has been much, much warmer than present. So being at least 10C warmer than present is a good start.
I don’t think humans have any say in this matter; and CO2 plays at best a minor, trace role in the average temperature of the planet. So; it will warm, not warm, or get colder depending on what nature gives us.

Scarface
March 8, 2014 1:23 am

The perfect temperature will never be known, because the environmenatlists want us of the planet. That will be the day the earth can recover and obtain it’s perfect temperature again, but then there will be no-one left to measure is.

Berényi Péter
March 8, 2014 1:38 am

@azleader

The temperature achieved when 100% of global GDP/year is spent to slow CO2 rise.

That’s not nearly enough. We’ll have to borrow a lot more, increasing public debt further.

Mindert Eiting
March 8, 2014 1:44 am

You are asking for a mean surface temperature, isn’t it? Put a thermometer on every square inch of the earth, on land and on sea, from the lowest valley till the highest mountain. Do readings on all of them every second and enter the values in a giant data matrix. No problem but what should we take as time interval? One year is too short. Let’s take the time our solar system needs to make one round in the milky way. The mean should be 15 degrees Celsius but 14 or 16 is also OK.

March 8, 2014 2:03 am

Temperature is always one standard deviation away from perfection.

Chad Woodburn
March 8, 2014 2:11 am

As with all such questions, we must first answer the question “Perfect for whom?”

March 8, 2014 2:18 am

Excellent answer, what was the question?

Gail Combs
March 8, 2014 3:08 am

RoHa says:
March 7, 2014 at 8:07 pm
Warm enough so that girls wear the absolute minimum. Or even less.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Well that sure isn’t the climate now. (The heater broke last night and it is below freezing outside – so added a jacket on top of the sweatshirt…. Darn it I moved south to be WARM!)

son of mulder
March 8, 2014 3:41 am

The temperature needs to oscillate around 19.5 deg c so as my wife moves to turn the heating up the temperature rises in advance so she changes her mind, it should then cool quickly enough to ensure I don’t have go and check she hasn’t turned the heating up.

Patrick
March 8, 2014 3:50 am

Well, I don’t care right now because whoever is smoking “wacko” in my condo building is smoking so much I too am feeling the “effects” of that “wacko”…

March 8, 2014 4:12 am

Most of the commenters here are thinking empirically, in terms of thermometer ranges. But that is not how this question came about. To use the popular alarmist terminology, I’ll “reframe” the question.
What temperature is “acceptable” or “unacceptable” to the alarmist camp?
For many of them, the answer is not defined by effect, but by cause. For many of them, any global temperature influenced by man is not acceptable. That is not a scientific viewpoint. It is a philosophical or religious one. Our actions have “upset” the “balance of nature”. We have “violated” Mother Earth.
So the “perfect temperature”, for them, is one with no “discernible” human influence. If it’s man-made (even in part) it is automatically bad. That is, I think, why they are not interested in doing a cost-benefit analysis of any particular change in climate.
Global warming/climate change/whatever, (i.e. the social phenomenon) will change with the weather, but it will never go away.

DonV
March 8, 2014 4:19 am

I think the perfect temperature is when Greenland is finally green again. That way Minnesotans for Global Warming will get their wish, too.
But according to all these stupid “temperature anamanalnamaly” graphs (why aren’t we just comparing the temperature itself anyways?), the ideal temperature was passed some time in the seventies when all the ecoterrorists and climate scientologists were higher than a kite and sleeping naked in a love in on the quad at UCLA. Why do we give these idiots the microphone? I think someone needs to turn the air conditioning temp so low that Hansen has to wear a winter jacket to give his testimony. And someone then needs to ask HIM the question. “Do you prefer this temperature which corresponds to the “Little Ice Age” we are coming out of, or the fake heat wave you created when you gave your last testimony.”

Big Don
March 8, 2014 4:22 am

The answer from us Michiganders is, at least 20 degrees F warmer than it is right now!

Coach Springer
March 8, 2014 4:28 am

Sillies! When you control temperature with taxes, the temperature is adjustable. You’ll just have to pass the tax to find out what temperature is in it.

Bruce Cobb
March 8, 2014 4:38 am

The “perfect” temperature, obviously, is what it was during the LIA, before the Industrial Revolution, and before man started spewing his evil CO2 into the
atmosphere. So, by their calculations anyway, roughly 0.8C cooler than now. We had to go and mess things up with our improved standards of living, longer lifespans, and all of the trappings of modern life, including cars and planes. It was an idyllic time, with lots more ice and snow. But, just imagine; without cars we’d be getting around by horse-drawn sleighs, and skis, snowshoes, and skates. After which, we’d come home to our cozy tiny homes heated with wood harvested from our own individual woodlots and have a hot beverage of some sort (probably not cocoa, since that wouldn’t be locally sourced, and not “sustainable”). It would be great. Fewer people around too, to annoy us. /sarc

H.R.
March 8, 2014 5:12 am

First, tell me why hot dogs come in packages of ten and hot dog buns come in packages of eight. Then I’ll tell you the perfect temperature of the earth.

Brian S
March 8, 2014 5:30 am

Mike P says: 42
Good one!
Seriously though, although I understand that it would not be a popular move here, a look at the Manufacturer’s Handbook gives the answer straight away, i.e:
“While the Earth remains,
Seedtime and harvest,
Cold and heat,
Winter and summer,
And day and night
Shall not cease.” (Genesis 8 v 22)
But that DOES raise the question of why YHWH said this “in His heart” and why He saw fit to have His musings recorded for our benefit. The only rational explanation I can think of is that these were all unprecedented in Noah’s experience (and, yes, I did see the recent debate on the word ‘unprecedented’). Need some justification? Let’s start at the end and work back, with some help from the scribe who wrote down the book. (My apologies in advance to Moses if I have put anything into his mouth that should not be there.)
“Moses, in Chapter 8 verse 3a of your book ‘Genesis’ you wrote “And the waters receded continually from the earth.”
“Correct.”
“But hang on Moses, you had just written “And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered (Gen7 v 19)” Even I know that water flows downhill, so if ALL the hills were covered, how could the waters recede?”
“The hills rose up and the seas got deeper.”
“Huh?”
“I had also just written “In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up and the windows of heaven were opened”. What do you think caused that?”
“A meteor strike?”
“Bigger. Much bigger.”
“How big?”
“Big enough to knock the Earth out of its orbit close to the Sun into the orbit it has now. Big enough to collapse the water mantle that protected the Earth’s surface when it was closer to the Sun (“the waters which were above the firmament”) and to cause the first rains, which lasted worldwide for 40 days and 40 nights. Big enough to slow down the velocity of the Earth around the Sun. Big enough to leave a ‘ring of fire’ around its impact crater, which you call the Pacific Ocean. Big enough to tilt the Earth’s axis of rotation and thereby create conditions of cold and heat, winter and summer, and day and night, none of which had previously been experienced on the dry land at the poles before. Big enough to provide the energy to shatter the continents that then existed into jigsaw puzzle pieces. Big enough to penetrate the mantle and cold enough to create the convection currents that sent the pieces scudding around the Earth’s surface. Big enough to keep the cracks widening and molten for long enough for the jigsaw puzzle pieces to relocate to their new positions. Big enough to give those pieces the momentum to cause the impact crumple zones that you know as mountain ranges, when they collided with each other. Big enough to significantly increase the mass of the Earth. That big.”
“Cataclysmic seems too mild a description!”
“Absolutely. Your movie-makers haven’t even come close, by many orders of magnitude.”
“So before The Flood there were no mountains?”
“The ‘mountains’ then were only 15 cubits higher than the ‘high hills’ – read Verses 19 and 20 of Chapter 7 of my first book. Originally, the waters covered the Earth, but were “gathered together into one place” which let “dry land appear”, just as I was instructed to write in Genesis 1 v 9. No mention of mountains is there? And if the waters were in one place, how many places do you think the dry land occupied?”
“One, or at most two. And it, or they, must have been at the poles.”
“Right. You call them Pangea, or Gondwanaland and Eurasia.”
“Which was it?”
“Put the jigsaw back together and consider each piece’s movement and its impact with others, then you’ll know.”
“OK. So if the Earth is now travelling slower and its orbit is longer that explains why the antediluvians lived longer?”
“Right – they didn’t. Methusela’s 960-odd years and my 120 years were much the same in absolute time. His year was about 45 days long. But it didn’t happen overnight, or even during the Flood period. Check the ages of the post-Flood people – they reduced from 960 years to 480 years, to 240 years and ended up at 120 years, just as YHWH determined beforehand and told me to record it in Genesis 6 v 3.”
“And that makes nonsense of trying to extrapolate any timeline for current events back through the Flood event?”
“Correct. Totally pointless, and bound to lead to incorrect ideas. Evolution is a religion, not science, and of the three things YHWH abhors most religion is probably top of the list. The others are politics and economics.”
“So what is the ideal temperature for the Earth?”
“Conditions were ideal before the Flood. Good enough to support the growth of vegetation that was turned into gigatonnes of coal. The water mantle ensured that conditions were uniformly warm over the whole surface of the Earth. But those conditions can never be recreated, just as those conditions could never support the formation of a rainbow.”
“And the burning question of this hour – what was the carbon dioxide level then?”
“Burn ALL of the coal, ALL of the wood in your furniture and houses; cremate ALL of the 7 billion bodies in excess of eight; empty ALL of the CO2 fire extinguishers, and release any other sequestered atmospheric carbon and you will have a good idea of what ideal conditions were like, and how much carbon dioxide affected them. As Smokey used to say before he spontaneously combusted and came back as his alter ego “The only effect that can be definitively connected with the increase in CO2 is rising agricultural production.” That is why there are gigatonnes of coal”.

Mickey Reno
March 8, 2014 5:31 am

I think Ed Cook of Climategate fame has the answer. Or at least he has AN answer that may be the best possible answer to this question. 😉

Alan Robertson
March 8, 2014 5:57 am

The temperature wherever I’ve been has always been fine with me. I’m adaptable.

Bruce Cobb
March 8, 2014 5:57 am

H.R. says:
March 8, 2014 at 5:12 am
First, tell me why hot dogs come in packages of ten and hot dog buns come in packages of eight. Then I’ll tell you the perfect temperature of the earth.
Because meatpackers sell by the pound, and a typical hotdog weighs 1/10 pound, thus the ten hotdogs, while buns are typically baked in 8-roll pans. You just have to buy 5 packages of hotdog rolls and 4 packages of hotdogs to get them to come out even.
And the perfect temperature of the earth is…..?

JRM
March 8, 2014 5:58 am

Well once you come to the proper temp, I see the bigger question to be….. What is the perfect CO2 level that we have to maintain to keep it there? We will have build a world wide system of carbon pollution collectors, and then transport the evil carbon to other areas for release through our new carbon injection system. I am sure they are programing the model now to keep the planet in harmony. With the science of CO2 we will now be able to heat or cool any area to fit the need of the people. Control must be maintained by our leaders at the UN, to keep evil people from using CO2 as a WMD.

nigelf
March 8, 2014 6:12 am

To me the perfect temperature would be when we don’t even get a frost here in Ontario. In other words, much warmer than what it is now.
Warmer is better.
How that would translate into a global average I don’t know and don’t really care.

March 8, 2014 6:14 am

RoHa says:
March 7, 2014 at 8:07 pm
Warm enough so that girls wear the absolute minimum. Or even less.

Finally, a well thought out, science based response.

H.R.
March 8, 2014 6:25 am

Cobb says:
March 8, 2014 at 5:57 am
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/03/07/a-pointed-question/#comment-1585579
So you think, Bruce, but what about 12oz packages of hot dogs? And family-size packages of buns? But since you gave it such a good go…
Fact: at every given moment, some thermometer somewhere on the earth is registering the perfect temperature. Simply go look at that thermometer and Bob’s your uncle.

Jim Jelinski
March 8, 2014 6:54 am

If I recall correctly, NASA administrator Michael Griffin ended up resigning by saying something similar to this. I think he questioned whether global warming was a problem, saying that to say that warming was a problem was to assume that today’s temperature was the optimum temperature. I think he was forced out of office for these remarks, that is for not agreeing with the warmistas.

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