The WUWT Hot Sheet for August 17th, 2013

WUWT_hot_sheet4

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Fox News Channel features Climate Depot on Obama’s bypass of Congress on climate regs: Morano: ‘The Obama admin. is being strategically brilliant by doing this behind the scenes. They’re going to achieve everything that cap and trade, and UN treaties and even a carbon tax would achieve through the invisibility of federal regulations’

Click here for Fox News article

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZnNlp7hUHo

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Oh noes! Apples losing their crunch to global warming

Mike (UK) says:  Smithsonian claims:

Climate Change Is Altering the Taste and Texture of Fuji Apples

“If the last Fuji apple you grabbed from your grocery store’s produce section was mealier and less flavorful than the Fujis you remember from childhood, you’re not alone. Your memory isn’t at fault, and it’s not as though you’re particularly bad at picking apples, either.”

“To see if climate change might have played a role, they analyzed the long-term climate trends in the two regions of Japan where the apples were grown (Nagano and Aomori prefectures), and found that during the 40-year period, temperatures had gradually risen by a total of about 2°C in each location. Records also indicated that, over time, the date on which apple trees in the two regions began to flower steadily crept earlier, by one or two days per decade. ”

Nothing escapes the clutches of climate change!

http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/science/2013/08/climate-change-is-altering-the-taste-and-texture-of-fuji-apples/

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But warming makes more lobster…

A benefit from warmer coastal waters.

“As of August, the average 4 oz. lobster tail cost $13.25, according to Urner Barry. That still costs more than 2 pounds of shrimp, but it’s the lowest price in 11 years, as warmer water and fewer predators have led to an abundant supply of lobsters.”

http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/16/news/economy/shrimp-prices/index.html

h/t to Roger Sowell

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Robert of Ottawa says:

I was just posting on Judith Curry’s site and I had two points well expressed and want to share them here. Effectively, they say why climate models are not real and why atmospheric feedback cannot be positive,

2) Computer models are not evidence, nor data. Computer models regurgitate the assumptions encoded.

5) For me, ultimately, as an engineer, if there was positive feedback in atmospheric dynamics, we would all have been fried, or frozen, several billion years ago. We are here, Therefore there is NO positive feedback.

Adding a further point now to this post, when accuracy of earlier temperature measurements, from say 100, 200 or 300 years ago cannot be 0.1C, then to express them as such by the arcane art of averaging introduces false precision. I’m sure you will find info on this at numberwatch.com, or if you google it. After all, that number should be 0.1C +/- 1C, so the precision is meaningless and false.

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FerdinandAkin says: Global Warming now causes Sea Level to fall!

(I read in on the internet, it must be true)

Australian floods lowered worldwide sea levels

Research Letters attributes a lot of the surprising sea-level decline to antipodean deluges — record-breaking rainfall that was linked to climate change.

http://grist.org/news/australian-floods-lowered-worldwide-sea-levels/

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An article in PLOS ONE (open access) titled “Environmental roots of the Late Bronze Age crisis” using carbon dated pollen analysis on Cyprus and coastal Syria, details the 300 year drought from 3200 years ago that ended the Minoan warming.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0071004

This climate shift caused crop failures, dearth and famine, which precipitated or hastened socio-economic crises and forced regional human migrations at the end of the LBA in the Eastern Mediterranean and southwest Asia.

Cause unknown but not industrialisation. h/t to Keith Minto

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This video is getting warmists all hot and bothered.

Chris Hayes: Fix climate change now – Salon.com

…we are at the front end of something new and distinct. If you ask people if we’re seeing more extreme weather events more often, they say yes.

Bill McKibben makes the argument to me that, basically, you have to worry less about persuading people, because what’s going to happen is the climate is going to do that for you.

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Revkin: “I don’t see evidence to back your assertion that the following point is firmly established: “2. Global temperature rise of 2 degree Celsius or more is likely to trigger severe, irreversible effects…””

Can climate science be rendered conservative-friendly? | Grist

Also (this is important because this determines the pace of response) I don’t see evidence to back your assertion that the following point is firmly established: “2. Global temperature rise of 2 degree Celsius or more is likely to trigger severe, irreversible effects…”

h/t to Tom Nelson

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32 thoughts on “The WUWT Hot Sheet for August 17th, 2013

  1. LOL! So the “Department of the Interior” discourages scientific and independent thought? Who would have thunk it.

  2. So when truly ripe apples hit the stores for the first time in living memory, it is a disaster, right? Something must be done about it, urgently.

  3. I like this point!
    “when accuracy of earlier temperature measurements, from say 100, 200 or 300 years ago cannot be 0.1C, then to express them as such by the arcane art of averaging introduces false precision.”
    The ‘false precision’ of historic temperatures is interesting, there were less weather stations and standards were different, But, why should anyone bother with today’s temperatures either?
    Temperature values are meaningless once they become doctored, reconstructed and modified to suit modeled expectations.
    Q. What is earths temperature?
    A. Pick one!!

  4. Sweet corn can’t ripen this year in Ontario, too cold.
    The Ontario Federation of Agriculture admits sweet corn is not ripening on time.
    Farmers blame cooler temperatures, the opposite of what the province saw last summer and even in July, for slowing the growth of corn.
    Farms such as the Foster Family Farm in North Gower, Ont., just south of Ottawa, are in a waiting pattern because the vegetable is not ready to be picked yet.
    The owner, Mel Foster, said his farm has run for 40 years and now sells to big grocery store chains like Sobey’s or Metro, but this year he’s lost about $30,000.
    The heat of early July was perfect but suddenly the cold of August has not allowed milk to foster inside the corn.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/story/2013/08/08/ottawa-ontario-sweet-corn-shortage-farmers-customers-sour.html

  5. The Chris Hayes video should have a warning on it for those with at least half a brain to have a barf bag handy. The BS, the disinformation and propaganda level is in the stratosphere. They really do live in an alternate reality.

  6. Found earlier when following a “Discover” story link:
    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2013/08/01/climate-not-spaniards-brought-diseases-that-killed-aztecs/

    Climate, Not Spaniards, Brought Diseases That Killed Aztecs
    By Crux Guest Blogger | August 1, 2013 8:00 am
    By Linda Marsa
    The following excerpt from Marsa’s forthcoming book, “Fevered: How a Hotter Planet Will Harm Our Health and How We Can Save Ourselves,” was originally published on PLOS Blogs as part of their series “The Science of Extinction and Survival: Conversations on Climate Change.”

    The wild swings in weather that are expected to become commonplace as the planet gets warmer—more frequent and severe droughts, followed by drenching rains—change ecosystems in a way that awaken and expedite the transmission of once dormant diseases.
    Intriguingly, this type of weather pattern may be what led to the fall of the once mighty Aztec Empire in the early 16th century–and not as is commonly held, by the invasion of European colonialists, who brought with them diseases like mumps, measles and smallpox for which the native populations lacked immunity.

    Natural weather swings wiped out the Aztecs. Therefore the modern anthropogenic climate change-based weather swings will likewise wipe out people. But the human-caused swings, which are identical to while exactly the opposite of the nature-caused swings, are very dangerous and must be fought.
    Oh, this is good.

    The tree rings indicated that the most severe and sustained drought in North America in the past 500 years occurred in the mid-16th century. But there were heavy downpours in the years around 1545 and 1576, which coincided with the cocolitzli outbreaks. “The smoking gun was the tree ring data,” Acuna-Soto said.
    Acuna-Soto is now convinced that the death knell for the Aztecs was an indigenous hemorrhagic fever virus spread by rodents, not the Spanish conquest.
    The rat population was depleted during the drought, when food was scarce. But once the rains returned, food and water were suddenly plentiful and the number of infected rats exploded, spreading the deadly scourge to humans.

    Will someone please inform this dear lady that tree ring proxy temperature records are now even crappier than before, before her forthcoming book comes forth?
    What happened to all the snakes and lizards that should have eaten the extra rats that were spreading the hemorrhagic fever?
    Oh yeah, people don’t want them around their settlements, so they kill them, so they weren’t available to eat the rats, and the human settlements were safer places for the rats to live than “out in the wild”.
    Is the best way to prevent death from this plague in this age of calamitous frequent anthropogenic weather swings, to encourage even more feral cats?

  7. An article in PLOS ONE (open access) titled “Environmental roots of the Late Bronze Age crisis” …

    http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0071004
    This climate shift caused crop failures, dearth and famine, which precipitated or hastened socio-economic crises and forced regional human migrations at the end of the LBA in the Eastern Mediterranean and southwest Asia.

    Cause unknown but not industrialisation
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    If the Authors don’t know the cause or possible cause it is because they didn’t bother to do a literature search or they didn’t like what they found when they did so played dumb.
    A warmer climate means more evaporation and therefore more rain. Also if Stephen Wilde is correct, a warmer world has zonal jets. A change to a cooler world is going to change the position of the jets and therefore change the rain fall patterns.
    Here are the Papers that support that conclusion:
    They actually did field research in this study on atmospheric circulation shifts and looked a time period in the ball park of the above study.

    06 May 2012 Nature Geoscience | Letter Regional atmospheric circulation shifts induced by a grand solar minimum
    ABSTRACT
    Large changes in solar ultraviolet radiation can indirectly affect climate by inducing atmospheric changes. Specifically, it has been suggested that centennial-scale climate variability during the Holocene epoch was controlled by the Sun. However, the amplitude of solar forcing is small when compared with the climatic effects and, without reliable data sets, it is unclear which feedback mechanisms could have amplified the forcing. Here we analyse annually laminated sediments of Lake Meerfelder Maar, Germany, to derive variations in wind strength and the rate of 10Be accumulation, a proxy for solar activity, from 3,300 to 2,000 years before present. We find a sharp increase in windiness and cosmogenic 10Be deposition 2,759  ±  39 varve years before present and a reduction in both entities 199  ±  9 annual layers later. We infer that the atmospheric circulation reacted abruptly and in phase with the solar minimum. A shift in atmospheric circulation in response to changes in solar activity is broadly consistent with atmospheric circulation patterns in long-term climate model simulations, and in reanalysis data that assimilate observations from recent solar minima into a climate model. We conclude that changes in atmospheric circulation amplified the solar signal and caused abrupt climate change about 2,800 years ago, coincident with a grand solar minimum.

    Two papers about rainfall also with the ‘Sun Connection’ and again with actual field studies.

    Indian monsoon – Solar Connection
    Manish Tiwari and R. Ramesh
    Abstract
    Solar forcing on the Indian monsoon has been an important area of research with several workers proposing it as the governing factor for the southwest (SW) monsoon strength during the Holocene. But most of these studies are based on the SW monsoon wind and not the precipitation proxies. We analyzed stable oxygen isotopic composition (δ18O) of three species of planktic foraminifera (Gs. ruber, Gs. sacculifer and Gr. menardii) using the stable isotope ratio mass spectrometer in a sediment core from the eastern Arabian Sea that yields the past variations in SW monsoon precipitation. High-resolution isotopic analyses show that solar forcing likely played a major role in governing the past variations in SW monsoon precipitation on centennial timescale.
    Introduction
    …The SW coast of India (along the Western Ghats) offers an opportunity to determine the past fluctuations in precipitation as it receives abundant rainfall during the SW monsoon that gets into the Arabian Sea as freshwater runoff6. We carried out high-resolution oxygen isotope analysis of planktonic foraminifera from a sediment core, namely SK-145-9, from the southwestern continental margin of India that provides past variations in monsoon precipitation…..
    Results & Discussion
    ….The studied species are known to grow predominantly during the SW monsoon months and hence are likely to record the signals arising mainly due to SW monsoon fluctuation. In the eastern Arabian Sea, SSS variation is mainly controlled by the variation in the supply of fresh water as surface runoff from the adjacent Western Ghats during the southwest monsoon….
    A reduction in SSS occurs due to the influx of large amount of fresh water, depleted in 18O, as surface runoff into the coastal eastern Arabian Sea during intense SW monsoon precipitation events. In the eastern Arabian Sea, for every per mil decline in salinity, the δ18O value decreases by 0.33 ‰6, 25. Thus a depleted δ18O signal indicates enhanced southwest monsoon precipitation whereas an enriched δ18O signal points towards reduced precipitation due to weaker southwest monsoon…..
    The Sun – Monsoon Relationship
    Bard et al.28 reconstructed TSI data for the past 1200 years, which has been taken for the present study. They based the TSI estimation on the common fluctuations of the 14C and 10Be production rates obtained from tree rings and polar ice sheets. The TSI curve used in this study assumes a 0.25% reduction in TSI during Maunder Minimum3. The TSI data are compared with the δ18O in all the three foraminiferal species…
    Conclusion
    Excellent correlation between the high-resolution isotopic data with TSI reconstruction indicates a likelihood of solar control over the SW monsoon on centennial timescales. It shows that although decadal scale variations in the TSI (0.1%) do not seem enough to perturb the SW monsoon but longer timescale fluctuations can bring about changes in precipitation not only by increasing land-ocean thermal contrast but also by various other positive feedback processes such as enhanced solar ultraviolet radiation & its absorption by ozone etc.

    Is solar variability reflected in the Nile River? Alexander Ruzmaikin, Joan Feynman, Yuk L. Yung
    ABSTRACT
    We investigate the possibility that solar variability influences North African climate by using annual records of the water level of the Nile collected in 622–1470 A.D. The time series of these records are nonstationary, in that the amplitudes and frequencies of the quasi-periodic variations are time-dependent. We apply the Empirical Mode Decomposition technique especially designed to deal with such time series. We identify two characteristic timescales in the records that may be linked to solar variability: a period of about 88 years and one exceeding 200 years. We show that these timescales are present in the number of auroras reported per decade in the Northern Hemisphere at the same time. The 11-year cycle is seen in the Nile’s high-water level variations, but it is damped in the low-water anomalies. We suggest a possible physical link between solar variability and the low-frequency variations of the Nile water level. This link involves the influence of solar variability on the atmospheric Northern Annual Mode and on its North Atlantic Ocean and Indian Ocean patterns that affect the rainfall over the sources of the Nile in eastern equatorial Africa.

    More on the Sun-climate connection

    Geophys. Monogr. Ser., vol. 141 Atmospheric ionization and clouds as links between solar activity and climate, in Solar Variability and Its Effects on Climate Tinsley, B. A., and F. Yu (2004)
    ABSTRACT
    Observations of changes in cloud properties that correlate with the 11-year cycles observed in space particle fluxes are reviewed. The correlations can be understood in terms of one or both of two microphysical processes; ion mediated nucleation (IMN) and electroscavenging. IMN relies on the presence of ions to provide the condensation sites for sulfuric acid and water vapors to produce new aerosol particles, which, under certain conditions, might grow into sizes that can be activated as cloud condensation nuclei (CCN). Electroscavenging depends on the buildup of space charge at the tops and bottoms of clouds as the vertical current density (Jz) in the global electric circuit encounters the increased electrical resistivity of the clouds. Space charge is electrostatic charge density due to a difference between the concentrations of positive and negative ions. Calculations indicate that this electrostatic charge on aerosol particles can enhance the rate at which they are scavenged by cloud droplets. The aerosol particles for which scavenging is important are those that act as in-situ ice forming nuclei (IFN) and CCN. Both IMN and electro scavenging depend on the presence of atmospheric ions that are generated, in regions of the atmosphere relevant for effects on clouds, by galactic cosmic rays (GCR). The space charge depends, in addition, on the magnitude of Jz. The magnitude of Jz depends not only on the GCR flux, but also on the fluxes of Me V electrons from the radiation belts, and the ionospheric potentials generated by the solar wind, that can vary independently of the GCR flux.

    Journal of Geophysical Research: Space Physics Two solar cycles of nonincreasing magnetic flux 23 OCT 2002
    C. N. Arge, E. Hildner, V. J. Pizzo, J. W. Harvey
    ABSTRACT
    Since measurements began in the late nineteenth century, there has been a secular increase (with superposed ripples due to solar cycles) of the aa geomagnetic index [Mayaud, 1972]. Starting from this observation, Lockwood et al. [1999a, 1999b] conclude that the total open solar magnetic flux has increased by 41% from 1964 to 1995 and by 130% over all but the last 5 years of the twentieth century. However, solar data for more than two solar cycles – Carrington maps from Mount Wilson, and Wilcox Solar Observatories and newly reanalyzed data from the National Solar Observatory – show no secular trend in overall photospheric flux. More importantly, the magnetic flux open to interplanetary space (as calculated from photospheric measurements and assuming potential fields to a height of 2.5 R⊙) fails to show evidence of a secular increase over the last two solar cycles. Like Lockwood et al., we do not explicitly take account of transient events. Thus both data and calculations imply that the Sun’s average coronal magnetic flux has not increased over the last two solar cycles. Analysis of simulations with the potential field source surface model shows that the interplanetary magnetic flux is not simply related to the erupted photospheric solar magnetic flux. Both results are in agreement with the findings of Wang et al. [2000]. The topology, rather than the strength, of the emergent solar magnetic field may be a major determinant of the interplanetary magnetic field experienced at Earth.

    HMMmmmm, Interesting. Those last two cycles would be cycle 22 and 23. A graphical comparison of solar cycles 21, 22, 23 and 24

  8. Rober of Ottowa:
    5) For me, ultimately, as an engineer, if there was positive feedback in atmospheric dynamics, we would all have been fried, or frozen, several billion years ago. We are here, Therefore there is NO positive feedback.
    ===
    As an engineer you should know better than to make such simplistic sweeping statements about a system as complex as climate. There certainly ARE both +/ve and -/ve feedbacks. For a start, the two stable states of glaciation/inter-glacial strongly suggest that. Tropical storms also involve +/ve feebacks.
    Clearly the negative ones dominate or else the system would be inherently unstable and we would not be here to argue about it.

  9. kadaka (KD Knoebel) says: @ August 17, 2013 at 9:24 am
    Climate, Not Spaniards, Brought Diseases That Killed Aztecs
    Acuna-Soto is now convinced that the death knell for the Aztecs was an indigenous hemorrhagic fever virus spread by rodents, not the Spanish conquest.
    The rat population was depleted during the drought, when food was scarce. But once the rains returned, food and water were suddenly plentiful and the number of infected rats exploded, spreading the deadly scourge to humans….
    What happened to all the snakes and lizards that should have eaten the extra rats that were spreading the hemorrhagic fever?
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
    What happened is the people ATE THEM along with the rats and anything else they could get their hands on. You get a drought, you get famine, you get people eating what ever they can find. The Genocide in the Ukraine showed that. (Don’t read this link if you are squeamish.)
    Civilization is very thin, a result of abundant food and energy. I wish the kumbaya types would figure that out.
    What she also left out is you get a weaken population with a compromised immune system.

  10. New image, “17:00:07 UT” is up. Spots moved slightly, large crease still there.
    Note to those who care: The Solar Dynamics Observatory images are downloadable here, select “Frames” to get the images in the time range selected in a zipped file. Select “Download” and you get a MP4 (movie) file.

  11. Re: drought & disease in the New World
    The cities of the Mound Builders in the US Midwest & Southeast collapsed as a result of global cooling at the onset of the Little Ice Age, along with the contemporary Anasazi of the Southwest. Drought and the fall of corn agriculture, plus possible deforestation & over-hunting by the concentrated populations, forced the people to evacuate major sites.
    About the same time as the Nahuatl population crash attributed to rat-borne hemorrhagic fever viruses, indigenous people suffered devastating, widespread epidemics in the US Southeast. These have been attributed not just to the Spanish, but also to the pigs brought into the region by Hernando de Soto’s 1540 expedition.
    In their book on the expedition, Ann Romenofsky & Patricia Galloway speculate that millions of American Indians died because they lacked previous exposure to swine-borne diseases. They & the animals they relied upon for food (such as deer & turkeys) lacked immunity to such deadly diseases as brucellosis, anthrax, leptospirosis, tuberculosis, trichinosis, cysticercosis & various strains of flu.
    The Classic Maya civilization also probably collapsed due to climate change, after their region started drying from about AD 660. By 800 to 900, war & famine had greatly reduced the number of people & level of their culture.
    Despite the relatively stable, warm & equable climate of the Holocene, the interglacial has not always been friendly to corn farmers.

  12. This abstract from the Bronze Age article is a hoot:
    “Abstract
    The Late Bronze Age world of the Eastern Mediterranean, a rich linkage of Aegean, Egyptian, Syro-Palestinian, and Hittite civilizations, ”
    Ahem. Who got left off that list?
    “collapsed famously 3200 years ago and has remained one of the mysteries of the ancient world since the event’s retrieval began in the late 19th century AD/CE. Iconic Egyptian bas-reliefs and graphic hieroglyphic and cuneiform texts portray the proximate cause of the collapse as the invasions of the “Peoples-of-the-Sea” at the Nile Delta, the Turkish coast, and down into the heartlands of Syria and Palestine where armies clashed, famine-ravaged cities abandoned, and countrysides depopulated. Here we report palaeoclimate data from Cyprus for the Late Bronze Age crisis, alongside a radiocarbon-based chronology integrating both archaeological and palaeoclimate proxies, which reveal the effects of abrupt climate change-driven famine and causal linkage with the Sea People invasions”
    Onose. The invasion of the Sea People! I can just see the cheesy comic book.
    “in Cyprus and Syria. The statistical analysis of proximate and ultimate features of the sequential collapse reveals the relationships of climate-driven famine, sea-borne-invasion, region-wide warfare, and politico-economic collapse, in whose wake new societies and new ideologies were created.”
    Can’t have new ideologies…

  13. Fuji apples are grown in the US – notably at the “other” Oroville in Washington State which sits at the Canadian border and where I have a second home. The Okanogan is the northern extent of the Sonora Desert that stretches south to Mexico and is an area of fresh air, clean water, and uncommon beauty. Nature has been kind to our region.
    And we have the best Fuji apples you can buy. And the other kinds of apples grown here are also excellent and we have lots of them. Our wines are award winning and our craft beers are unbeatable. I’m going to call BS on the Fuji mush myth – or invite them to enjoy a Grown in USA Fuji from the other Oroville.

  14. OldWeirdHarold says:
    August 17, 2013 at 10:38 am

    This abstract from the Bronze Age article is a hoot:
    The Late Bronze Age world of the Eastern Mediterranean, a rich linkage of Aegean, Egyptian, Syro-Palestinian, and Hittite civilizations, ”

    Ain’t there sum Jewish-type peoples they jest plum fergot ta mention buildin’ themselves sum big ole cities and temples aver dere sumplace in dat region?

  15. “Climate Change Is Altering the Taste and Texture of Fuji Apples”
    Did they check the radiation level?

  16. dbstealey says:
    August 17, 2013 at 10:51 am (replying to)
    OWHarold,

    You might be interested in this [click in image to embiggen].

    Be interesting to expand that graphic image, showing not a single width of paper (gif), but one that has width of the image as either economic amount or geographic influence over time. That is, Egypt was extremely powerful during its time, but only controlled a very, very small area of the globe.
    Or band-width as percent of world population?
    Would seem to over-emphasise large countries (India, China most especially) with little influence outside their borders. An important criteria of course, but makes a puzzling feedback indeed. Also, take Africa, South American and North American and Australian “Indian” (native) populations for the period -4000 BC to 1400-1500-1600-1700 as a whole: absolutely no influence at all on the rest of the planet.
    Where they “present”? Of course. What did they “do” that matters now? All slaughtered millions of fellow natives. But (Aztecs and Incas aside) none had even a surviving culture, city, or contribution outside of their local farms/tribes/land.\
    Today? I would greatly enlarge USSR through the 1908 – 1990 revolutions, WWI, and the socialist-communist period. It “ruled” more than half the world, and its “theocracy” of socialism is the world’s dominant culture right now. The “religion+culture” influence in that graphic is also misleading: Today, Islam’s influence is very, very strong in many areas, gowing in many others – whether we like it or not, but the “explosive” growth of Indo-European-Christian influce from 1400 through 2010 is equally missed as this chart looks at national power and fluence, not cultural influence. Today, for example, is India or China “capitalistic or “European in outlook and day-to-day activities more than its original daily distinctive patterns of 4000 BC through colonialism? Or the colonial influence of say 1800 though 1950?
    What “culture” is China now? Communist? Socialist? Military dictatorship with capitalistic “generals” running their empires as elite robber-barons who enslave their workers?
    US? Well, this map is a bit ambiguous, as is our future truth be told. Europe needs to be re-colored into the EU-centric-socialism that is wiping out countries. Should Brussels be larger than France+Germany+Italy+Greece+Spain+…

  17. dbstealey says:
    August 17, 2013 at 10:51 am
    OWHarold,
    You might be interested in this [click in image to embiggen].

    You forgot the /Joke tag with that!

  18. The whole Administration and government must march to the beat of the same drummer. Unfortunately, he’s whacking out rim-shots and tara-diddles, so it all looks rather ridiculous.

  19. Who cares if the Titanic is going down? Deck chairs are in need or rearranging, and by Jove we shall do it!
    Or we could actually try to do something about the looming disaster, but obviously that would make us racist. No, better the end of everything than that.
    I guess I’ve just got a bug in my craw. I’m not yet 30 and finally met the right woman for me, and then all this has to happen. Everything seems to be going your way and then some bastard drops a new Dark Age on you. It’s some next level bullsh!t if you ask me.

  20. OldWeirdHarold says at August 17, 2013 at 10:38 am
    This has been known about for more than half a century.
    The real question is who were the “sea peoples” that did the raiding.
    My own guess is the Greeks. Homer describes similar raids from the other viewpoint on the way towards Troy.
    Remember, Troy was real.

  21. M Courtney says:
    August 17, 2013 at 2:24 pm
    OldWeirdHarold says at August 17, 2013 at 10:38 am
    This has been known about for more than half a century.
    The real question is who were the “sea peoples” that did the raiding.
    My own guess is the Greeks. Homer describes similar raids from the other viewpoint on the way towards Troy.
    Remember, Troy was real.>/i>
    Could have been the Phoenicians, in an ealier mind set, they later became the great traders guarding knowledge of the route to England’s tin mines.
    http://www.phoenician.org/sea_peoples.htm

  22. From M Courtney on August 17, 2013 at 2:24 pm:

    Remember, Troy was real.

    But the history we have is the history that was recorded, that survived, that was not and is not willfully destroyed.
    For example, there was the first Trojan Horse. The Trojans weren’t stupid, many of them suspected the treachery. So they took the alleged gift to Athena, the great wooden horse, and set it afire to slay the soldiers inside.
    And found the hollow horse contained not men, but more offerings to Athena, which was deeply embarrassing.
    A fortnight later when the second horse appeared, with a note stating the Greeks were saddened to learn the Trojans had destroyed their gift but they have sent this replacement so the goddess would not be angry, the Trojans were determined to not look stupid and disrespectful again, and promptly brought the wooden horse into the city.
    Which was the horse with the soldiers inside, as was planned.
    You never hear about the first horse, because the Greeks thought it much better for the Trojans to be foolish enough to be dismissive of the Greeks and to ignore the warnings and be destroyed by their pride in one fell swoop. So that is the history the Greeks wrote.
    Seriously, a ten year siege, both sides trying every trick they could think of, then the Greeks pretending they all left while leaving behind a single wooden horse, was all it took? I would think the Greeks pretending they had all left to draw out the Trojans into ambushes and traps would have already been tried twice, in the first year. How could anyone believe the “official” version?

  23. a) Enough obsessing with Cook already Dr Tol. Minute dissection of the survey gives it more credence. It looks too much like it’s of great important for us to get rid of this assinine works.
    b) I’m aftraid we need a moratorium on tree ring proxies until we figure out how these woody blighters react to all elements of their environment. We’ve just learned that they slow down in growth with age and rings get thinner. Man if this is new, I’m afraid I’m not impressed with the venerable science of botany – none spoke up on this subject of last week. Com’on botanists, get this done before some engineer or climate scientist figures it out for you (this “thinning” certainly could be an explanation of the mysterious “divergence problem” – there’s a hint you can run with for a PhD (modern asterisked style)). So maybe the tree rings got so thin they fell on the Aztecs and killed them.

  24. RACookPE1978 says:
    August 17, 2013 at 11:04 am
    OldWeirdHarold says:
    August 17, 2013 at 10:38 am
    This abstract from the Bronze Age article is a hoot:
    “The Late Bronze Age world of the Eastern Mediterranean, a rich linkage of Aegean, Egyptian, Syro-Palestinian, and Hittite civilizations, ”

    Ain’t there sum Jewish-type peoples they jest plum fergot ta mention buildin’ themselves sum big ole cities and temples aver dere sumplace in dat region?

    I could swear I saw Palestine in that list, and that was Israelite territory so your Jewish types are included. When confronted with “Who’s missing?” my first thought was “Minoan perhaps.” But what’s pleasing to see, though of little surprise these days, is the inclusion of the Hittites. Let’s remember there was a time when the secular world would not accept the existence of such a race when the only evidence for its existence was in the Bible.
    That reminds me: climate stability is promised in the Bible too. Wonder if any atheists would be interested. Nah, guess not.

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