Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
I’ve written about my time in the US Army, and about spending time behind bars getting out of the Army, in my story called It’s Not About Me. In that story, I discussed a bit of my view on the Vietnam war, the view echoed by many who have studied it since—that it was the wrong war, in the wrong place, at the wrong time. My experience was that the Vietnam war damaged every single person it touched, on both sides of the Pacific, and more than anyone it damaged some of the veterans who’d actually done the fighting. I know that because I spent months in the nuthouse assisting the physically crippled and the memory damaged. My friends there were the shell-shocked refuse of the carnage. It’s not my wish to refight the war or what I did regarding the war, just to tell my story about it, so please, let’s not turn this into a referendum on some imaginary “right” response to the Vietnam War—there weren’t any of those, just levels of wrong responses, plus pain and suffering enough for all.
Christina Dorothea Dyer Greene, and looking at that lovely old granny, you’d never guess she’d once put a voodoo death curse on a middle-aged man … and he died within the week. Another story I should tell sometime.
A couple years after I got out of the nuthouse and the Army, I went to live with the Captain’s Daughter, my beloved grandmother we called “My-mummie” whom I’ve written about before. It was a great experience for me. It was after my grandfather’s death, and my oldest cousin was living there as well. She and I have always been close. We cooked dinner and washed and dried the dishes and kept up the grounds and did house maintenance and such for My-mummie. The best part was that I could hear her stories again (and some for the first time) as an adult and not as a seven-year-old kid. I lived with her about a year, it was fascinating, I’ll write more about her sometime.
After a while, though, I wanted my own place. I loved My-mummie, but eventually, I had to move out on my own. A friend of my cousin’s said she needed someone to caretake a tiny one-room cabin she owned near Santa Cruz, totally enclosed by a state forest. I said sure and moved out there. It was an enchanted place. It always reminded me of Snow White’s pad. It was quite close to Santa Cruz but totally hidden. You’d drive through the protected forest, and there was a little clearing with a little house in the sunlight, the famous “bee-loud glade”. I continued making and selling sandals.
This was also the first time I ever made money from my art. I mean as opposed to my music. I started making and selling mobiles. I made light fixtures that were mobiles, using glass, and candelabras, and railroad lanterns, and pieces of cut steel, and crystals, and found objects. They moved and spun, casting an ever-changing, entrancing light. They were beautiful, and they were easy to make and sell, people snapped them up as fast as I finished them, so I generally had a bit of money, not much, but enough.
Of course, the Vietnam War was still going on; it hadn’t stopped because I’d managed to get my invitation canceled. I met some people who were in a loose confederation called “The Resistance”. The Resistance was founded by David Harris, who was married to the singer Joan Baez at the time. Some of us Resistance guys rented a house just behind the Santa Cruz Boardwalk on Second Street. We called it the “Resistance Commune”. We were hippies, we were opposed to the Vietnam War. We believed in peace and love. Bored middle-aged housewives brought food to the house and gave money, so we’d be free to work to end the war. And we did work, we did what we could, and we worked hard at it.
It was a strange time. We believed in something vague called “The Revolution”. We weren’t sure what that was, but we knew we were at the forefront of it. It involved throwing out everything that our parents believed. That much was obvious from the terrible hole it left behind. Beyond that, we were making up the song as we were singing it.
It was also the time of “free love”. I later learned that (for me at least) love is rarely free, but we were young and didn’t know that yet. At the time I was sexually involved with three women. Not at the same instant or in the same bed, you understand, but at the same time. They all three lived in a commune called the “River Street House”. They all knew each other, they were good friends, they all knew about me, there were no secrets between us. None of us thought much about it, it went on for a couple months, it was great … well, it was actually fantastic until I came down with the clap, and I had to tell all three of them.
Gonorrhea. Ugly word, I know, and an ugly reality, but I have to be honest about the bad as well as the good. I’ve said I am telling my tale warts and all, and having the clap definitely qualifies as more than a wart in my world.
I got the usual symptom, a leaky faucet, went to the doctor, got tested, and I got the bad news. So I called the three lovely ladies all together and told them all at one time, so there was no misunderstanding and we could get it clear. I said that I had the clap and that I must have gotten it from one of them, because I hadn’t had sex with anyone else, and I was willing to swear to that.
Now, after I published my story about hopping freight trains, people wrote in the comments to say I should issue clear warnings in my stories, so fools don’t try to follow my path. They said I should do that to keep a bunch of maroons from cluttering up the rail yards with their corpses and body parts and drowning in the Kenai and the like trying to follow my lead. Seemed excessive to me, like the sign on my aluminum foil reflective car screen that keeps the sun off of the dashboard when I park, covering the front window entirely. The sign says, no bull, it says
“WARNING! Do not drive the car with this sunscreen in position”.
Really? We’ve fallen that far?
In any case, to keep folks from complaining about this story, here’s my Official Warning—kids, don’t try this one at home. Do whatever you have to do in order to avoid telling three women at the same time that one gave you gonorrhea and you might have given it to the other two. I assure you, Miss Manners classifies it as a major social blunder.
Plus it’s not an easy subject to bring up, regardless of how you lay the groundwork, and I’ll tell you, gonorrhea is a real bitch to just casually slip into a conversation without groundwork. Like “Oh, yeah, guess what, dearest ladies, funniest thing happened to me yesterday, I was passing by my doctor’s, and I thought I’d drop in, you’ll never believe what he told me …”
That wasn’t the hardest part, though. As uncomfortable and painful as it had been for me to tell the three of them that I’d gotten the clap from one of them and I might have passed it on, there was worse to come.
First, though, we all had to walk on eggshells around each other, no sex for anyone until they got their results back from the lab, from memory that took three-four days.
Now, for those men out there who have had the unfortunate luck to be falsely accused, and who have had to try to convince a furious woman of your actual innocence, that you have been true to her and only her, you have not been cheating on her, and that you are telling her the 100% facts of the case, I’m sure you all can testify how just how hard and painful that is …
Well, just be thankful that you have not had to try to convince three furious women, who have just gotten out of the car after driving back from the clinic together, three furious women who have been discussing your shortcomings and lack of honesty because all of their tests turned out negative. Consider trying to convince them that you have been true to them and only them, that you haven’t been unfaithful to the three of them in either thought or word or deed, and that you’re telling God’s own truth. I don’t recommend it for the weak of heart.
Of course, they didn’t believe a word of what I was saying; understandably, they had the medical proof. The three of them got in my face all at once, shouting, punching my shoulders … it was truly not a pretty picture, folks, your narrator did not appear in a good light at all. First, my faucet starts leaking, then my sacred word is being seriously questioned, and now I’m in the doghouse and getting thumped on by not just one but all three beautiful women that I care about … it was a very bad week for me.
Much battered in spirit, not to mention somewhat bruised about the upper torso, I went to the library and studied up on the tests they’d been given. As always, the science helps. It turned out that the test they used for men back then was pretty good, but in women, you got a false negative about one time in four. That is to say, for one woman in four who actually had gonorrhea, the test didn’t show it. I’d always been a good mathematician, I took out my pencil and figured that if there was one chance in four of a false positive for any one of them, there was an excellent chance that one or more of them had a bad test result.
So I went back and told that to the good ladies. They were skeptical, but they all went and got retested. It turned out that one of them actually did have the clap, so my honor was restored, I had been telling the truth. I really had been faithful to the three of them and the three of them alone just like I’d sworn to them, and the very best news was … I hadn’t given the disease to either of the other two. And in the end, they all told me they forgave me, although I’m still not clear what I’d done that needed forgiving. But I accepted it with an open heart anyhow, they were wonderful women … however, I digress, I’m just happy I was young after penicillin and before AIDS …
As part of our Resistance work, we arranged all kinds of protests against the war, against imperialism, against poverty. We thought of ourselves as Dadaist revolutionaries, though. I liked to carry random signs in the marches, signs advertising weird stuff, signs just with pictures, strange signs. On one march, I was face to face with the riot police, with everyone waving signs to end the Vietnam war, and yelling slogans. Everyone had their signs, “END THE WAR”, “END THE INVASION”, that kind of thing.
Me, I was in front, hollering at the cops, and I was waving a lovely international orange road sign with black letters I’d found mounted on a post along the protest route, and had brought with me … I was a bit unclear on the “let’s all protest something” concept, I guess, but I knew how to have fun. I used to say that a Revolution you couldn’t laugh at wasn’t worth having.

The Vietnam War went on and on. In December, The Resistance leaders, based in Palo Alto, arranged for the second big mass sit-in at the Alameda Induction Center. At the first Resistance sit-in, everyone had gotten arrested, it was all peaceful, and they all had to do five days at the Santa Rita prison farm. The papers picked it up, it was a one-day wonder, we were all abuzz about how the war machine was cracking and how the Resistance was famous and we were starting to win …
However, the first sit-in had had absolutely no larger effect of any kind that I could tell. After the one day of news, that was it; no follow-up articles, the entire sit-in and the arrests and the jail time just vanished, and the war rolled on without the slightest change.
So the decision was made to do the exact same thing again, another identical sit-in, same time, same place.
Hey, don’t look at me like that. They didn’t solicit my opinion, although at the time I might have agreed. I likely was dumb enough then to do something a second time expecting a different result. So the Santa Cruz Resistance Commune (those of us who could) went up to Oakland for a sit-in at the Army Induction Center to see if we could raise a public outcry and get arrested. “Clog up the gears of the war machine”, I believe was the catchphrase of the time.
I gotta confess, I wasn’t crazy about the whole idea. After spending a month or so locked up in the Navy nuthouse, and then five months behind bars in the Army nuthouse, I was kinda over the whole razor wire and cells and bars and guards experience—the thrill was gone. I’d done my time. But I went along. We were part of The Revolution, so no sacrifice was too great.
Our friends drove us up to Oakland early in the morning. We all got together around six AM, maybe 120 people or so, and we all sat down and blocked the doors of the Induction Center. It was funny, that’s exactly where I’d been inducted a couple of years before. I was one of the few guys in the crowd who’d actually been inside. I’d spent hours in the place.
A “sit-in” is a non-violent event. It’s also, for that very reason, boring as hell. First off, we figured they’d open at eight, but they didn’t even open until nine … so we sat around and told each other stories about how noble our cause was, and how wrong the pigs and the war merchants were, and how much difference we were making. Like I said … booooring.
Eventually, the cops came. The Oakland Police were practiced at the action by then; it wasn’t their first rodeo. They backed up the paddy wagon, the police prisoner van, right up to the mass of sitting people, and just started tossing us in the back. As one wagon got full and left, another pulled right in. It was assembly line arrests; Henry Ford would have been proud. We thought we’d clog up the gears of the war machine? No worries, they had them well-greased. By noon, we were all hauled away, and they were back to inducting draftees into the Army with no sign that anything had happened.
I’d never been in a paddy wagon, the “Black Maria” van the cops use to transport prisoners. But as you know, I’m always up for new experiences. The main thing I remember about it was that it smelled like vomit, no surprise there; it served as the rolling drunk tank most nights of the week. Given a choice, I’d advise taking alternate transportation. They hauled us away to the Justice Center by the packed van load.
We were put in a big cell. No windows, kind of dark. We waited for hours and hours. Waiting bothered some people a lot; they walked and paced, rattled the bars. I’d been locked in rooms like that before in the nuthouse, so I knew waiting of old, waiting was a good friend of mine. I could wait with the best of them. One by one, people left the room to go before the Judge. None came back. We had no idea of our fate.
When my name was finally called, after the darkness of the holding cell, the courtroom was blindingly bright. I blinked and looked around. The Judge was on a high dais; I had to look way up to him. He said, “You are charged with Disturbing the Peace. How do you plead?” Like all of us, I plead guilty to Disturbing the War. The Judge looked just like a frog, puffed up, obviously frustrated by the unending long line of people waiting to come before him and mock his court. He sentenced me to twenty days like everyone else before me, and they started to take me … wait! say what? Twenty days?
Twenty days? We’d figured on getting five days like the last bunch … and since that day was December 13th, that meant we wouldn’t see freedom until the second of January. We’d miss both Christmas and New Year. Pinche cabrón, I hadn’t planned on that, but there it was. My choices were either to dig it or bitch about it, and besides, no sacrifice was too great because we were making such a difference. It just made us more noble. Plus any mathematician could tell you, if we stayed in twenty days we’d make four times the difference that the folks made who stayed five days … of course, that had been zero difference, but we were comforted by the thought that we’d do four times as much.
So I reset my mental retirement clock; my next retirement wouldn’t be in time for Christmas, no, no. I reset for twenty days. No problem, I’d done months inside, I could do twenty days “standing on my head” as they say.
They took us, busload by busload, out to Santa Rita Prison Farm. They had two big connected barracks set aside for us, likely to avoid trouble with the cons. Or maybe to keep us from talking to them about sit-ins, I don’t know. I believe they’ve torn those barracks down since and built something else. We were over 100 guys, including David Harris, the founder of The Resistance. The much smaller number of women went elsewhere.
Being locked up this time wasn’t too bad. I was in a big barracks surrounded by like-minded friends. And best of all, I never once woke up lashed down to a bed, as had happened before several times, and that’s always a huge plus in my world. We talked story and compared lies.
The best day in jail for all of us was Christmas, but not for the usual reason. I woke up and my friend Rodney said, “Hey, check this out!”, with a big grin. He held out a box and told me to look inside. Damn, it was a treasure chest!
What happened was that some guys from the San Jose Resistance had broken into the jail late Christmas eve. That’s right, not out of the jail, but into the jail, like some lifer’s fantasy of Santa Claus for cons. They cut through the outer wire, came across an open area dodging the searchlights, cut through another fence around the barracks area, made it to our barracks, cut through the wire around our barracks, and came right inside.
Zowie. Tip of the Hat.
I talked later to one of the San Jose guys who had done it. He said going that direction was much easier than the alternative because they’re never looking for people breaking into jail. He tried to downplay the whole thing, but I was still very impressed because even if getting in was easier, the guys still had to get back out again … which took some serious stones. I told him what a great gift it had been and what a difference it had made.
In any case, I woke up Christmas morning, and Rodney said that the San Jose guys had awakened him about 2 AM. They had brought in boxes and boxes of cookies, along with several cigarette packs full of joints. Damnbetcha, regular cigarette packets full of neatly-rolled cigarettes of the mystery herb of the ancient Hindus, the eponymous “Indian Hemp”. Plus, there were a few tabs of blotter acid (LSD).
Of course, at that time marijuana and LSD were very illegal, particularly in jail, duh.
But we were in a funny place. Our barracks were the last two in a long row of similar barracks. There was only one way to get to us. It was a long path visible all along its way from the main street to us, and it had four locked gates with long walks in between. So they couldn’t rush us or do anything fast, it took them a couple minutes from when they appeared at the end of the row, out at the far end of the path with four locked gates, to the time when they arrived at the barracks after they had walked and unlocked and relocked and walked and …
So we made no attempt to hide the dope. Instead, we distributed all the joints as fairly as possible, then we all went outside to the veranda. We all lit up at once and stood around sharing joints and eating cookies. We knew that we’d have plenty of time to laugh at the guards if they tried to stop us, and that the cookies and joints would be long gone by the time they got there. The guards did finally show up, late to the party as usual, the weed and the cookies were gone, the acid well hidden. We razzed them, told them they’d missed the party, if only they’d come half an hour earlier we’d have given them cookies and offered them a joint … somehow they didn’t see the humor in it. They ran us all back inside, and lectured us, and searched the veranda area, and then ran us all outside again, and shook down the whole barracks, and found nothing …
The best story of the whole Santa Rita farce, though, happened to one of my friends. He was put in solitary confinement for fighting, not his fault, somehow he’d ended up in a regular cell and his cellmate had attacked him. We smuggled in messages to him, letting him know he wasn’t forgotten.
After Christmas, through our contacts in the joint, we were able to smuggle him one of the tabs of blotter acid that the San Jose guys had brought in. My friend figured, hey, solitary confinement is the best place in the world to drop acid, nobody can mess with me. What are they gonna do … throw me in solitary?
He liked to meditate, that’s what he’d been doing in solitary the whole time. So he took the LSD and figured he’d spend his time doing some really intense meditation. Sat down on the floor, crossed his legs, and pretty soon he was soaring.
Just as the main rush was starting to come on to him, and the cell walls were starting to melt, and the paisley colors were starting to appear on the backs of his hands, he had the very realistic hallucination that his cell door was opening. Of course, being on acid, from the time he first hallucinated hearing the aliens coming towards his door to the time he hallucinated the door finally opening was something like five or six weeks … at least it sure seemed that long, but it was hard to tell, there was that whooshy-whooshy noise that kept coming and going that distorted time too.
It seemed to him in his elevated state that two aliens came in, they looked kinda like guards, he said, but you could tell the difference — he knew they weren’t guards. They said they had a directive from the home planet or something; their words kept echoing and bouncing around his head, or maybe it was just the echoes in the cell, but they were very hard to understand. They said to come with them, so he followed them meekly, wondering vaguely, where were the aliens taking him?
But he didn’t wonder long, because the prison walls of the corridor were so interesting. How come he’d never noticed before that prison walls flex slightly inward and outward when you breathe? He tried to tell the aliens about his discovery, but they told him to shut up.
The faces of the aliens kept changing and melting, but he said he wasn’t afraid; he could tell they were friendly. At one point, the aliens lost the form of guards and then assumed the form of prison officials standing behind a counter. They put a paper bag on the counter and had him sign some papers. One of the alien official people talked to him. He couldn’t hear him at all, but there were little cartoon balloons over the alien’s head. He tried to read them, but they were hard to follow. They said something about how the warden was letting him out two days early because my friend was such a wonderful person, or that he got extra credit for meditating while in the hole, or something; he was never clear on that part, but the aliens walked him right out of the front gate of the prison and left him there. He said he thought they had some power over the guards to let him go.
So before he knew it, there he was in front of the prison farm, let out two days early because of getting credit he didn’t know about for good behavior, all alone, peaking on acid, holding a paper bag with all his possessions, and gazing at the world in total wonder as the miraculous sun shone, and the grass grew, and he was free, free, free! He sat down in the grass right there in front of the Santa Rita prison farm and started talking to the grass, and in a while, the grass grew right through him, he could hear the grass taking over his body, and he became just another part of the very grassiness of the world … and after while he fell asleep.
In the morning, he woke up next to the paper bag containing his wallet and his possessions and didn’t know where he was. He sat up, looked around, saw he was outside the prison, and the memories of the acid trip and his miraculous escape and the aliens came back to him. He got up, walked to the road, and hitchhiked back to Santa Cruz.
And ever after that, he was convinced that LSD could do anything, melt steel bars, open jail doors, and nothing we could say about time off for good behavior would ever convince him differently. The belief never seemed to do him any harm, he never tried to fly off of buildings on acid or anything stupid. He just had an unshakeable faith that everything would turn out right for him … and as is sometimes the case for folks who believe that, for him it always did. Go figure, he was the only one of us who got out in time to celebrate New Year’s Eve.
They let the rest of us out the day after New Years, a cold windy day. The year had turned while we were away, we’d given stopping the War our best shot, and the War didn’t seem to notice at all. We’d missed Christmas. We’d missed the New Year’s party. We’d even missed our fifteen minutes of fame, we were in the slam the next day when the newspapers hit the streets … and by the time we were let out, after twenty days, the world had totally forgotten the sit-in, the story was dead on arrival …
“Oh, you were in a sit-in? I didn’t realize there had been one. Was it exciting?”
On that last day, we went through the standard drill, lines for this, sign here, lines for that, initial the form, put our civilian clothes back on, they handed us our wallets and belts and out the door with you, boyo.
Two of my three girlfriends picked me and a couple of other Santa Cruz Resistance guys up outside the jail, and we all went back to Santa Cruz to plan the next step in the noble fight against the war. One thing was clear, though.
Throwing my skinny okole in jail, whether they did it or I did it to myself, didn’t seem to change the war one bit. I’m a slow learner sometimes … but I never tried that brilliant plan again.
w.
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Greg House says:
February 28, 2013 at 12:59 am
And I prefer people willing to answer questions rather than dodge them.
And you can ask yourself, why am I so stupid as to call Willis a liar, right after he said don’t do that?
Greg, that is a slimy, underhanded accusation. You have no idea what I don’t know and how I don’t know it. As far as what I was talking about, I consider that modern communism started in 1917 when the first communist country emerged, and so that’s the date I picked. And no, I didn’t know there was some meeting of some proto-communist dickweeds in eighteen hundred whatever … so sue me. I spoke of when Communists first came to power and were in a position to help Ho.
Now perhaps I’m wrong to say he wasn’t affected by communism early on, maybe he was … but by god I’m not making it up or saying it to deceive, and you are a nasty scumbucket to accuse me of that without a scrap of information to back up your unprincipled dishonorable mouth.
Who else wants to play? This Greg guy is a jerkwagon, and stupid to boot, calls me a liar right after I advised against it …
w.
@ur momisugly fobdangerclose says: February 27, 2013 at 5:24 pm
I have copied your above post here:
fobdangerclose says:
February 27, 2013 at 5:24 pm
“So, we meet once more, same old LAX deal, same old, same old it gets old.
Your all correct to fear the truth, your all on your game, your all the same as before.
Ho the mass killer was my fault.
Hue was just a misjudgment of the use of death and does not fit the profile of the liars base line.
Russia was never the killer kings.
Just those 17 year old kids from Texas farms and ranches, the 18 year olds from the hills of West Va. the big old lumber jack’s kids from Minn. .
Just some more misdirected men who defended freedom only to have the gene pool set up then to morf into this CO2 re-distribution fraud, that is once more just a front for commie lust for death of freedom.
Your not going to get the last word no matter how long the lie or how long you finger fight here and forever.
Mean old mr history knows as do you, self deception the final lie solution.
Now you judge and prove up yourselves for all time.”
This has the quality of real poetry.
By real I mean REAL.
I have long ago given up taking any interest in contemporary poetry, even though an old friend is a published poet, since, as is consistent to the age, it is all basically about the feelings and processes of someones Terribly Important concerns about how their own intestines are working, or if they venture out from that, a regurgitation of cliche jumbled up to disguise the fact, which in the end is gibberish.
What you have written comes from something much deeper and broader than that and pushes out beyond yourself to show things all people can then make part of their own understanding.
That’s REAL poetry.
Good stuff.
I’d suggest you try to find someone to publish it (and no doubt more) although I realize, as I think you do from some of your comments above, that finding someone in the System to do that, who would not be struck dumb by social embarrassment or automatically head for the door with their eyes fixed firmly on the ceiling, is likely to be a tough road.
Things are on the turn though, and have been building for quite awhile as is shown by a whole pack of cowards who have recently been trying to worm their way into humanity by making out they had something to do with the war effort in Vietnam, apart from undermining it which is what they actually did.
So I’d say your time is just about here, but it will take awhile to work its way into the bastion of self-interest that is the Cultural Class.
Keep it up. The value of things such as you have written reduces 1000 pages of self-justification to the nothing that it is.
If you can eventually get a book published I’d buy it, which would make it the first book of poetry for a quarter of a century.
@ur momisugly Greg House says: February 28, 2013 at 12:59 am
So there you have it.
You have been told you “nasty scumbucket”.
I mean, how DARE you make any assumptions at all about such an honorable man? How can you possibly justify drawing any conclusions at all about anything he says or claims without first clearing it with him as being in accord with his requirements? Do you really think you have the right to think independently of his directions?
Who can possibly think it is reasonable that you believed that he knew communism originated as a specific, documented doctrine in the mid 19th Century? Or that the ideology of the Russian Revolution didn’t spring fully-formed from Lenin’s mind in 1917? Or about the multitude of radical socialist/communist/anarchist groups that existed in Europe from the late 19th Century?
Just because his claim as a fact that communism “wouldn’t even be invented for another decade” is given as the basis in entirety for proof that his learned construction of reality was incontravertably true, how can you read anything into that, even if you and virtually all literate people with the slightest interest at all in what has happened in the world over the past 200 years know that as completely untrue?
Do you really think such an honorable man would be capable of an evasion, an omission, a slight of hand, just to try to assert his preferred version of events? You have seen his way of dealing with such things on this post, so how could you possibly think that?
Just because he has expounded at length on his knowledge of world history as it relates to this conflict, the greater implications through the region, the workings of the US government and society around all these issues, does that mean he has to know something like when and where communism originated?
Just because he said in his post of Feb 26th 2013 at 4.57 pm that in his youth he thought Karl Marx was “one of the good guys” what gives you the right to think he knew anything about him? Like when he lived? Or that he wrote the Communist Manifesto? Or that “Marxism” is based on his name?
With all that how could possibly entertain the thought that he was being less than honest with you?
You know that can’t be right. How? Because HE TOLD YOU BEFORE THAT how honorable he is, how he never lies. And if he says something – anything – it is Gods Honest Truth and don’t you forget it.
You need to get your head right. Following his lead in any discussion, according to his directions, is the way to do it.
Otherwise you will remain a “nasty scumbucket” and as he also points out a “jerkwagon” and “stupid” to boot. Get with the agenda.
For what it is worth to some,
No value to many,
Many do retell the information they have recived, the information not exactly selected but the information too often that was pre-selected by what now can be called the mouth parts of the commie recon units inside the U.S.A., the free to lie U.S. Press.
To re-tell that sort of information does not convert that information to the whole correct truth in my humble opinion.
One more odd thing, all those boat people, if they were so invaded by the U.S.A. and the troops of the U.S.A. so horrid and such agent orange mad dogs, why did they often die trying to get here and or spend 5 to 10 years to do become U.S. Citizens. Were they just “brain washed” or what?
Yes. This occupation idea is pure fantasy. His definition would make every military action an occupation. It also does not comport with millions of boat people. And the opinions on the ground of the vietnamese in the south. He is making it up with no personal knowledge.
Willis,
Did the war end when the US withdrew? How many people died as a result of the turmoil in the 10 years that followed? Do you not care about them? Did your ever protest the actions of the NVA whom you wish to give a positive veneer to? Do you regret that your protests for Peace led to millions more dead than all of the Vietnam War. Did you protest the Khemer Rouge? If not, why not?
@ur momisugly Bill Curry says: February 27, 2013 at 5:37 pm
I notice you haven’t had any response to this from any Knowers Of Truth Through Affirmation Of Self (Continuously). I don’t expect you will.
You have articulated things too clearly. And you shown you have a passion behind that that eviscerates their convenient self-rightousness.
Mainly, you have shown that you will not acceed to them setting the terms of engagement.
They have been able to get away with that all their lives. If it doesn’t work, they slink off.
Its good to see people who can stand up backed by real values, rather than excuses and manouverings based on looking for self-gratification.
The days of these people are over. They are 5 minutes away from being a handful of old men (and women) sitting in a corner gibbering to themselves. They will be lucky if they are ignored completely.
There’s a lot to be done after they are swept into their corner. Although not many speak up as coherently as you have done, there are a lot of people – pretty well the whole population – who are becoming increasingly aware of what these people have done, even if they don’t yet realize how it’s happened and who is responsible. That will soon come.
So there’s not just hope there’s certainty. Even if they can’t imagine an existence without their mark on it, this like everything else about them, is a convenient delusion.
This post, and the comments, have provided a fascinating record giving a real insight to anyone as to the underlying nature of all this. Willis of course considers himself unique. Like everything else about this, he has no clue at all that that is a stock-standard conception to hold. For a type of people who pride themselves on self-knowledge (amongst everything else of course) this lack of it is a defining characteristic. These are very superficial people.
Funnily enough I do think that Willis probably stands out from most of them, and has the fundamental decency to know that there are things other than himself and his cohort in the world, even if he doesn’t know how to deal with them properly. So he’s a long way ahead of most.
But this whole thing is not about individuals, and that, absolutely none of them understand.
So anyway, I have kept a copy of this post, and will continue to update it, since it without doubt can serve as an education for anyone who really wants to get a grasp on the real underlying reasons the world is as it is today.
Good luck with any further engagements here or elsewhere. Nothing will alter them, but they will slink off in the face of blunt truths given without allowing them holes to hide in.
fobdangerclose says: February 28, 2013 at 7:09 am
“….One more odd thing, all those boat people, if they were so invaded by the U.S.A. and the troops of the U.S.A. so horrid and such agent orange mad dogs, why did they often die trying to get here and or spend 5 to 10 years to do become U.S. Citizens. Were they just “brain washed” or what?…”
Nope, just being logical in a desperate situation – anyone linked to the southern government or military was given special treatment – re-education camps, often resulting in death. If they survived, they could get no decent job, their children were discriminated against too. If they could manage to get a visa to the US, they could only take their spouse, no children unless under exceptional condition of a single child with no other close relatives. Some fled to avoid arrest, some fled after release to avoid a life of poverty and often in an attempt to keep a family together.
And fleeing was often a disaster – we only hear about the ones who died or vanished or made to places like Australia. You don’t hear about the other unfortunates who often spent many years in the refugee camp in Indonesia on the then isolated Galang Island…. anyone who landed in Malaysian, Singaporean or Indonesian waters or who were picked up by boats in the region ended up there. Often from there they found they could get refugee status, but could not reunite with family members. It was UN supervised (interesting Indonesia was chosen, it was not a signatory to the UN charter on refugees) – I went to the camp a few years after it was shut and abandoned – there is a substantial graveyard there, many graves of children and babies too – I wandered through the old hospital building and picked up a batch of treatment notes lying in the ruins – person after person treated for malaria – no bed of roses.
Had a guy working for me near there – said he was part-Chinese, and it was very unusual for a Indonesian Chinese to be working in that job. Had a funny accent too, and after a few years a couple of the Indonesian guys told me – he’d slipped out of the camp and bribed and conned his way into local documents papers – all they guys knew, no one minded and no-one mentioned it to the authorities. They said he had no family left and no desire to go back.
Met a guy on a flight on a business trip to Vietnam. Now an Aussie and doing business in Vietnam – mentioned he’d been processed through the camp – I told him some of it was still there and naively asked if he’d ever been back. He said no, and that he never would, as it was the saddest place he’d ever seen, full of broken lives, broken families, broken dreams.
But, they are flooding back to Vietnam now for business trips, some are moving there to set up business, and more so the children of those who fled. I sometimes get told, hey, you should meet the guy who runs that or this – he’s an Aussie! Walk around there expecting to see some big guy with a hat, instead meet a well dressed Vietnamese looking guy with an ocker accent.
But I digress:
What were the choices?;
1.Don’t go in at all, provide support where requested – make business links when possible. Would there still have been deaths? Yep, very likely. Would it have remained a communist state for very long? Well, it is still one now, run by a a president presiding over a legislative assembly of insiders. All that presides over what is now one of the most capitalistic, entrepreneurial, business orientated societies you’d see anywhere. My take is the ten years or so of the US war and the following events just put the country back about 25 years – a wasted generation without even including those who died.
2. Go in half-a**ed thinking about your own internal elections and your presence on the world stage, build up a huge government structure in the south, right down to village level, build a multi- layered military right down to a village level, support a series of corrupt governments that encourage corruption through every one of those layers, make sure you kill several million of your enemies and trash their economy and infrastructure over a decade to make them really pi**ed off, then heed the opinion polls at home where the voters want you out of there (Yeah, the voters being the hippies in their teens and twenties, and their parent, and their grandparents … hey, that’s three generations …but I digress again..). Then get out, leaving a huge army, a great heap of military hardware and a suddenly gutted economy, and then cut off the free supply of fuel and ammunition.
3. Go in full blast. Bomb the harbours (dang – Chinese and Russian ships? – be careful buddy!) and the infrastructure. Beat them back to the border and fully occupy the south (hey didn’t that get attempted?) Well you are gonna have to fully occupy Laos and Cambodia. (The hell you say?,there are Chinese troops in northern Laos? Tread carefully). We might need a few more men and a bigger budget. Hey, How long we gonna do this for? Ya reckon they might just wait us out? Tell ya what, let’s occupy the north too! That should be easy and I doubt the Chinese will get very tense. (Oh yeah, More men and money, again, please! Ya reckon conscripts will do it? Again – how long we gotta stay? We’d better completely rebuild the political structures from the ground up. Shouldn’t take more than a decade or two, right? And they will stop fighting while we do that, eh? Do they know much about guerrilla warfare? Hey – this is not imperialism is it? Is this still diplomatically OK in this world? Will we kill less people this way? What happens when we do inevitably leave? Ya reckon there will be any bloodletting then?
No easy solutions. Except Point 1.
Greg House says: February 28, 2013 at 12:45 am
“…. it was a typical communist war, and America and other countries provided military help against those savages….”
No, it was a typically chosen USA bite sized conflict where they thought they could briefly flex their muscles and impress the voters at home, the world in general, and probably most importantly, the Russians.
If the intention was really to fight communists they would have put U.S. ground forces in to help the Nationalist Chinese government in the late1940s or gone in full blast and kept going in the Korean war in 1951 (as MacArthur wanted) … Or have even helped out the French who were fighting Viet Minh forces in the early 50s.
Nope – It all came about when and how it did because of internal political points and posturing on the world stage.
Now that I’ve read through the whole list, let’s chill a bit.
Bill Curry: Don’t blame all the evils on my generation—many of us, if not the majority, have lived decent lives. Already at that time some of us were fighting the good fight, and paying for it. I had a classmate in college who had a nervous breakdown after the second attempt on his life from the SDS types on campus.
For me, one of my big disappointments was to talk to many of “the greatest generation” only to find the attitudes acted out by the hippies already in them, only not acted on. People like terrorist Ayres were “red diaper babies” fulfilling the dreams of his father. By the 1950s, the country’s psyche was hollowed out, and many young people felt it. But the only advice they got from their elders was to follow their feelings—if it feels good, do it. Many young people rebelled against that empty consumerism that had robbed them of parents too busy grasping after things to be good parents, but in a way that ended up being destructive instead of constructive. Then there were the lies. I trusted them, I was a slow learner, but I now know that much of what government types told me then were lies, lies, lies. Add to that the lies told by fifth columnists in the media, the most famous being Walter Cronkite. That level of deceit ate away at the soul of the nation.
There are very evil people out there, moral zombies, who have weaseled their way into positions of power in government and business (often the two are the same thing). One prominent group are the bonesmen from Yale, but there are plenty of others as well. Bonesmen have been working to destroy this country for well over a century, so you can’t put all the blame for our present malaise on our generation. Instead of blaming, we need to work to push back, reclaim our nation. If any blaming is to be done, blame the destructive ideas, not the people. (Famous bonesmen include Papa Bush and Baby Bush, as well as Kerry.)
Willis: I enjoy reading your stories. I don’t agree with your decisions then, but then as you now say, many of those were done in the foolishness of youth.
If you had stuck with your narrative, we would merely shake our heads saying not to do such foolishness. Where you slipped up is to defend some of those actions in your comments above. You were wrong then, and still wrong now. I knew the communists. I had met their work while living in Europe. This was a fight against communism, and to protect the people from a blood bath should the communists take over. Just as I knew, once the communists took over, there was a blood bath and millions died.
But there were fifth columnists in the military as well as government and press, and those traitors devised tactics designed to engender enmity from the small townspeople and farmers: tactics like forced relocations and fire free zones. Yet in spite of those, our troops defeated the North Vietnamese invaders. They were on the ropes, ready to throw in the towel, the only thing that kept them going was the work of traitors such as John Kerry and Walter Cronkite working with their allies in Congress to change the political landscape. When we left Vietnam, we left behind a battle hardened military ready to finish the job. Congress intervened and denied those troops the supplies they needed. All the North had to do was to wait for the South Vietnamese to run out of their supplies that we left them, then send their tanks southwards.
So you may ask, did I go? No, I was 4-F, physical reject. Part of my enjoyment of your stories is describing adventures that I physically can’t do.
Today we are fighting on the same side, still a battle against communists. Instead of guns in the hands of troops, the communists are watermelons. But the goal is still the same. If they win, we can expect a blood bath here too. Good to have you on our side. Now it’s a battle of ideas, and we can win it.
R Ortiz says: February 28, 2013 at 9:25 am
there were fifth columnists in the military as well as government and press, and those traitors devised tactics designed to engender enmity from the small townspeople and farmers: tactics like forced relocations and fire free zones.
Well. Now I have heard everything.
What a freakn complex construct that is with not a chance in hell of furnishing any proof.
What a load of elaborate tripe.
A summarized History:
An excerpt – worth reading the whole thing – the link is below:
“… After much negotiation the following was agreed: (1) Vietnam would be divided at the 17th parallel; (2) North Vietnam would be ruled by Ho Chi Minh; (3) South Vietnam would be ruled by Ngo Dinh Diem, a strong opponent of communism; (4) French troops would withdraw from Vietnam; (5) the Vietminh would withdraw from South Vietnam; (6) the Vietnamese could freely choose to live in the North or the South; and (7) a General Election for the whole of Vietnam would be held before July, 1956, under the supervision of an international commission.
After their victory at Dien Bien Phu, some members of the Vietminh were reluctant to accept the cease-fire agreement. Their main concern was the division of Vietnam into two sections. However, Ho Chi Minh argued that this was only a temporary situation and was convinced that in the promised General Election, the Vietnamese were sure to elect a communist government to rule a re-united Vietnam.
This view was shared by President Dwight Eisenhower. As he wrote later: “I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held at the time of the fighting, possibly 80 per cent of the population would have voted for the communist Ho Chi Minh.”
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/VietnamWar.htm
R Ortiz says:
February 28, 2013 at 9:25 am
I swear to God, is stupidity contagious? If you disagree with what I’ve said, QUOTE MY WORDS.
I can’t defend myself against this vague, nasty BS, like you think it’s wrong to “defend some of those actions”. WHICH ACTIONS, FOOL?
Quote my words if you want a civil response. I’ve had it with this kind of bullshit nasty zero-content handwaving about stuff I’m supposed to have done. If you don’t have the balls to state what you’re talking about EXACTLY by quoting my words, then please, just go away.
w.
Bill Curry says:
February 28, 2013 at 8:00 am
Once again, accusations without support, without citations, without anything.
The war with the US ended when the US withdrew. Which war are you referring to?
I have no idea, but I would assume in the hundreds of thousands. The aftermath of nearly sixty years of war is very unlikely to be pretty.
Oh, please, you’re not really dumb enough to try to play the “you krool man, you don’t really care about puppies” card, are you?
1. No, I was overjoyed that the War was over and the US was out of it.
2. Quote where I’ve said anything giving the NVA a “positive veneer”. See, here’s a perfect example of the problem, Bill. As far as I know, I’ve said nothing in this post about the North Vietnamese Army. If you had QUOTED MY WORDS as I’ve repeatedly asked, then I wouldn’t be standing here saying you’re an idiot for making yet another unsubstantiated attack without a scrap of information to support it.
I do not agree that my protests (which were not for “Peace”, whatever that means to you) caused one single death. The war in Vietnam was lost before we ever went in the door, Bill, nothing I did killed a single person.
It sounds like you just wanted to keep the meatgrinder going, keep throwing body after body into it, so you could say we really tried or something, I don’t understand it … but I thoroughly reject your allegation that I caused a million deaths. Thats a stupid joke.
No, because I can actually spell, and I never could find any Khemer Rouge to protest against …
Seriously? Is that a real question? I was sickened and horrified by the actions of Pol Pot and his followers, as I’m sure you were. My estimation was that protesting against them would have done absolutely nothing, zip, zero … so no, I was young and dumb at the time, but I was not that dumb …
w.
jc says:
February 28, 2013 at 8:46 am
Yeah, jc, it’s shocking—nobody had answered Bill’s nonsense for a whole … what … eight hours and fifty-two minutes when you wrote to complain about the poor table service, where are all the waiters anyhow?
I think you’re right, jc, it’s clearly a sure sign Bill will never get answered and another reason to abuse folks.
I mean people wouldn’t be off sleeping or having a life when there’s a chance to respond to attacks from unpleasant fools, would they? …
jc, my man, you are truly a piece of work.
w.
This thread presents a good picture of the reasons why humanity has had such an abysmal record of failures of societal leadership…
http://www.theplanisphere.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Pogo.jpg
Willis says: My best regards to all, and please, guys, be clear—I’m not dissing you, I’m not dissing the US, and I’m not dissing the men who served. I’m just another poor fool trying to make sense of the choices that I’ve made in my life, so I’d appreciate it if you’d cut me some slack.
w.
Willis, as one who lived thru the spitting and the baby killer taunts, I can and will cut you some slack. I know you didnot mean the above as apology, but that is the way I will take it.
At least you didn’t run and hide in Canada or Sweden. I have a lot of respect for Ali since he at least had the courage of his conviction and went to jail.
I won’t forgive Jane Fonda, Jimmy Carter, and those that left to the afore mentioned lands. They won’t ask for it anyway.
But I figured out long ago that holding grudges will eat you up inside and turn you into someone your friends wouldn’t like. So I stopped. I let it go.
“I’ve had it with this kind of bullshit nasty zero-content handwaving about stuff I’m supposed to have done. If you don’t have the balls to state what you’re talking about EXACTLY by quoting my words, then please, just go away.”
Very nice Willis. This is approaching it like a gentleman. Not.
“Once again, accusations without support, without citations, without anything.”
Are you denying you said that we occupied Vietnam? If you can’t follow your own conversation without having it quoted constantly then perhaps senility is setting in. You cannot hide behind a constant whining for quotations. Do you deny saying the US occupied Vietnam?
“The war with the US ended when the US withdrew. Which war are you referring to?”
The Vietnam war. Which did not end when the US withdrew. That is factually false and I challenge you to prove that the war between North and South ended when no US troops were there. You are playing games in your own mind to protect it from what you did. People died the minute after the last US troops left and millions more died for 10 more years.
“I have no idea, but I would assume in the hundreds of thousands. The aftermath of nearly sixty years of war is very unlikely to be pretty.
”
You are showing your sheer lack of intelligence as well as your inability to read English. Perhaps math is not a strong suit for you either. Read the statistics I quoted. Add them up. It is MILLIONS. Many more than died per year on average during any other phase of conflict.
“Oh, please, you’re not really dumb enough to try to play the “you krool man, you don’t really care about puppies” card, are you?”
Yes. Because it is valid. You allowed them to die. Without protest. You didn’t care. You cared only about your cause. Not the effects.
“1. No, I was overjoyed that the War was over and the US was out of it.”
You are a sick man. You deserve all the spit I spit on you here. You felt joy as that child’s parents were slaughtered by NVA. As the reducation camps started. As starvation set it. All you could think of was “joy”. Sick, Sick, sick. And why those from your generation like you deserve only scorn. You cared only for yourselves.
“As far as I know, I’ve said nothing in this post about the North Vietnamese Army. ”
You need to go read what you write and stop playing lawyer. Did you not refer to the enemy of the US. Did you not call them freedom fighters or refer to them only fighting to remove a foreign occupier?
Your words:
“We were fighting against the Vietnamese equivalent of the Minutemen of the American revolution, people impelled more by a wish to throw off foreign domination than anything else. ”
This is a positive veneer that is completely false. You are the idiot (to use your words). You spent no time in Vietnam and yet consider yourself an expert.
“but I thoroughly reject your allegation that I caused a million deaths. Thats a stupid joke.”
No. It is a fact. You underestimate. I am accusing you of helping to kill 4 million more people than would have died if we had stayed “in the meatgrinder”. Yes – Not a joke. You don’t see the connection between your protests and those deaths because you can’t stomach that psychologically. But you reinforce here why you should be personally held responsible. You cared NOTHING. You felt joy. You are a sick and amoral man. And you are personally responsible for the deaths of millions. However small your role was, it is historical fact that you played a role. If a stabilizing force had been left in place, we would have had Korea 2 and 4 million people would have lived out there lives.
This is where my passion comes from. It is your absolute lack of responsibility. Your absolute unwillingness to see that there were unintended consequences to your actions. When you were protesting, did it cross your mind that if you got your way that millions would die?
“No, because I can actually spell, and I never could find any Khemer Rouge to protest against …”
Idiot. Spelling in SEA with Latin characters is variable. In fact, culturally they do not consider spelling important. But you wouldn’t know that. You were high – not doing something good for the world.
“Seriously? Is that a real question? I was sickened and horrified by the actions of Pol Pot and his followers, as I’m sure you were. My estimation was that protesting against them would have done absolutely nothing, zip, zero … so no, I was young and dumb at the time, but I was not that dumb …
”
I was a child. I knew nothing. But I have been there and have seen the skulls stacked up. I have looked into the eye sockets of those people and felt their horror.
So you did nothing? Sick. You only cared about your “cause”. Not the effect. You didn’t protest an embassy? Write a letter? No. You went and got high while people were dying.
You are a selfish bastard. History has now clearly shown how selfish. More importantly, you have made it clear to all readers here that you were capable of feeling joy while millions suffered as a side effect of “ending” the war.
We are writing history. Not you. You will be dead. We will be sure to give you your proper place.
Light reading for you: No comment from me.
http://www.toledoblade.com/special-tiger-force/2003/10/19/DAY-1-Rogue-GIs-unleashed-wave-of-terror-in-Central-Highlands.html
http://www.toledoblade.com/special-tiger-force/2003/10/20/DAY-2-Inquiry-ended-without-justice.html
http://www.toledoblade.com/special-tiger-force/2003/10/21/DAY-3-Pain-lingers-36-years-after-deadly-rampage.html
Luther Wu says:
February 28, 2013 at 11:14 am
This thread presents a good picture of the reasons why humanity has had such an abysmal record of failures of societal leadership…
http://www.theplanisphere.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Pogo.jpg
==============
I’m sorry, I didn’t even read it.
Didn’t need to.
Without limits, our worst traits come out.
@ur momisugly R Ortiz says: February 28, 2013 at 9:25 am
It is certainly true that people of a certain age at any time don’t just collectively erupt into one thing or another. So in that sense, it is correct to say it is unreasonable to blame a particular age group for this or pretty much anything.
And it is also certainly true that not all members of a particular age group adhere to the zeitgeist of any particular time. That is obvious just in this post, but has always been evident in this case.
But it is also true that influences tend to come to a culmination at a particular time amongst particular people when “conditions are ripe”, the main one – or really only one – being that there is a core group of people dedicated to that, and that there is at least some resonance with the majority of the balance.
So it is certainly true that the ground was prepared for all that erupted in the mid-late 60’s over previous times, and that in fact the most influential individuals in this were older than those who took it up so completely, and that other, older, people had formulated justifying “philosophies” which could serve as a structure. So it is true that those who came to be seen as the 60’s generation – and who themselves defined themselves by this – originated absolutely nothing beyond (in part) the fashions that gave color to this.
But people of that age WERE the “full expression” of these influences. It DID reflect them rather than influence them in part as might have been the case for older people.
And the core difference – which can’t be divorced from the people themselves – was that in, for example, 1960, there were REFERENCE points outside of this that could NOT be denied legitimacy, which had to be given precedence in societal interactions and which at any time any individual could be judged against. It DOES NOT MATTER if these were often breached in practice, they were there. These could generally be called values. And about 1968 this came to an end for a significant part of society, very much focused in people of a certain age.
Whether this was concentrated in its fullest expression in just a section of that age group (15%?) or not, it effected virtually all people of that age – even if they rejected it and tried to make do in its shadow. And it effected to a greater or lesser degree those average people not self-conciously this or that, but who had as people of a certain age at a certain time some affinity with it.
So it is fair and reasonable to describe all this as a generational issue – and when it comes down to it that’s exactly how it was seen by the participants at that time who defiantly proclaimed it. So there is no getting away from this fact.
And the defining characteristic of this generation is the failure of responsibility.
EVERY age, group, generation, has seen that what the world is supposed to be is not what it is. Through history, this has spurred the desire to improve that. This generation as a whole walked away from that. That was the choice.
This has allowed the worst of that generation to prosper: people, attitudes, ideas.
Are there people of that age who are “innocent”? Of course. When the numbers are overwhelmingly against you you can hold your patch but not influence the general tide of events. Most, however went along with the dominant ethos and those who were most committed to it.
This is important because the whole GW thing could not exist otherwise. And the GW thing is actually about what is true, how to discover it, and what to do when known: values.
By the way. I am moving on. I have productive things to do. You are nearing death anyway and clearly do not have the intellectual honesty to recognize the difference between what you hoped would happen and what actually happened. We will continue to clean up your messes. You will go to your grave with a false sense of reality.
And I will spit on your grave.
@ur momisugly Willis Eschenbach says: February 28, 2013 at 10:55 am.
Well: I think Bill Curry comprehensively dissects the value of your “answers”.
None.
u.k.(us) says:
February 28, 2013 at 11:36 am
Luther Wu says:
February 28, 2013 at 11:14 am
This thread presents a good picture of the reasons why humanity has had such an abysmal record of failures of societal leadership…
http://www.theplanisphere.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Pogo.jpg
==============
I’m sorry, I didn’t even read it.
Didn’t need to.
Without limits, our worst traits come out.
________________________
First, your comment “Without limits, our worst traits come out.” is very much on target.
Second, I clumsily wrote “This thread… meaning THIS THREAD, and then linked to a popular cartoon at the end of the thread, thus causing confusion.
The cartoon was the famous “Pogo: We have met the enemy and he is us.”
Bill Curry says:
February 28, 2013 at 12:23 pm
By the way. I am moving on. I have productive things to do. You are nearing death anyway and clearly do not have the intellectual honesty to recognize the difference between what you hoped would happen and what actually happened. We will continue to clean up your messes. You will go to your grave with a false sense of reality.
And I will spit on your grave.
==================
How, pray tell, could a “sense of reality” be false.
It is an experience, not a teaching.
The flowers will appreciate the added moisture, the bile will be wasted.
mkelly says:
February 28, 2013 at 11:26 am
Please be clear, mkelly, that I opposed that kind of thing as strongly then as I oppose it now.
See, unlike most of the protesters, I’d seen at least one of the horrors of war. I’d spent six months in the Army nuthouse at the height of the Vietnam War. I saw what it had done, not to one man, but to the hundreds and hundreds of men who passed through the nuthouse while I was a resident.
So then as now, I could have nothing but compassion and understanding and support for any US military man during that time, I knew the choices every one of them had made, in a swirling grey fog of lack of experience, lack of information, lack of time … I always thought it was crazy to have anything but support for the soldiers, what I was against was further death in an unwinnable war.
I also opposed it because it seemed like really divisive, stupid, piss-poor tactics … but that was secondary.
I wish I’d had his balls, but I was young and stupid and scared, so I took the King’s Shilling … and fortunately, I lived to regret it and learn from it. A number of my friends from high school weren’t so lucky.
w.