People send me stuff… UPDATE: See below for another interpretation
Remember how this was phrased? “sign it, it’s just voluntary!”
Recall Rio 1992 “Earth Summit” where the meme was “hey, it’s voluntary!…with a negotiating schedule attached”. Apparently, like a Roach Motel, “countries check in but they can’t check out”. This email is from UNFCCC’s list server and note my bolded section below. The arrogance, it burns.
—–Original Message—–
From: globalmedialist-all <globalmedialist-all@lists.unfccc.int>
To: globalmedialist-all <globalmedialist-all@lists.unfccc.int>; germanmedialist <germanmedialist@lists.unfccc.int>
Sent: Tue, Dec 13, 2011 4:46 am
Subject: [UNFCCC medialist] STATEMENT BY UNFCCC CHIEF ON CANADA’S ANNOUNCEMENT TO WITHDRAW FROM KYOTO PROTOCOL
STATEMENT BY UNFCCC CHIEF ON CANADA’S ANNOUNCEMENT TO WITHDRAW FROM KYOTO PROTOCOL
The Durban agreement to a second commitment period of the Kyoto Protocol represents the continued leadership and commitment of developed countries to meet legally binding emission reduction commitments. It also provides the essential foundation of confidence for the new push towards a universal, legal climate agreement in the near future.
I regret that Canada has announced it will withdraw and am surprised over its timing. Whether or not Canada is a Party to the Kyoto Protocol, it has a legal obligation under the Convention to reduce its emissions, and a moral obligation to itself and future generations to lead in the global effort. Industrialized countries whose emissions have risen significantly since 1990, as is the case for Canada, remain in a weaker position to call on developing countries to limit their emissions.
I call on all developed countries to meet their responsibilities under the Climate Change Convention and its Kyoto Protocol, to raise their ambition to cut emissions and to provide the agreed adequate support to developing countries to build their own clean energy futures and adapt to climate change impacts they are already experiencing.
==================================================
UPDATE: There’s some ambiguity here in the announcement, upon further reading it could be interpreted that they are saying this:
“I see you withdraw from Kyoto but you are still legally bound to reduce emissions UNDER THE 1992 ‘VOLUNTARY’ RIO UN FRAMEWORK CONVENTION ON CLIMATE CHANGE (UNFCCC)”.
So maybe it isn’t Kyoto they’re saying they can’t leave, but its parent treaty, Rio’s UNFCCC, which is the model for this Spring’s upcoming UNCSD ’12.
But that’s voluntary too, so how can a “voluntary” agreement be legally binding?
davidmhoffer says:
December 13, 2011 at 6:27 pm
[REPLY: By all means, deal with it. Language Rules will continue to be enforced, however. -REP]
Frankly, I am shocked that a site that will not allow the “d” word would allow this sort of crap through. His comment continues on:
[SNIPPED AT COMMENTER’S REQUEST. -REP]
I will respond to this blatant racist remark that is the continuation of the blood libel that cost 6 million jews their lives in WWII in the morning when my temper gets to the point where I am not in danger of pounding the keys right through my keyboard. Sorry, but if it is the decision to leave that piece of hatred up, then my respect for WUWT will take a dramatic turn for the worse. You banned the “d” word. Is this piece of hatred any less deserving of that fate? I’ve enjoyed to no end my time on this site, but hate mongering is hate mongering and I don’t participate in sites that permit it.
[REPLY: I looked at the sites linked to. They were vile and the link has been removed. WUWT will not be party to spreading that kind of… stuff. -REP]
===============
I think you misread me, I had family in Hitlers camps… Anti zionism isn’t anti semitism, that it’s perceived as the same is misdirection, see the Grauniad’s coverage of this over the years, much debated there and the arguments are convoluted. Anyway, the UN was set up by the world’s elite bankers, who finance both sides of any war, they set up the IPCC to deliberately find evidence for the claim that global warming was anthropogenic, they are the ones responsible for all these shenanigans. It is these people that Canada has a contract with. A contract is a contract.
What is Canada actually saying no to? If to the continuation of Kyoto:
then, it appears Canada is perfectly within its rights to do this, if this is what it is doing, because it takes another agreement to continue Kyoto. If Canada is saying no to this, then there is no contract for Canada to be held to, whatever has gone before is over.
Voluntary means only that there is no coercion, no obligation, to sign, but, once having signed there is a contract in place. However, since Kyoto 2 is obviously an extension to this which requires signature, then not signing should be enough to stop the process; because there is no more agreement, there is no more commitment to it.
Admirable as Canada’s stance here is, please let it be dealt with intelligently, by dealing with the root set up. Someone above mentioned that one of Canada’s, and the bigger of the two, tv stations hardly carried anything about Durban – that’s the problem, not something to be proud of.. The actual workings and decisions are being kept from us in practically all mainstream media, we should all know what Monckton analysed of the agreement concocted in Durban, but we don’t.
Al Gore and his new “manifesto”…
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203430404577092682864215896.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
This is co written by the former CEO of Goldman Sachs Asset Management, now serving as Senior Partner of Generation Investment Management, a London-headquartered fund management business. (think re-hypothecation)….
http://www.nationalsummit.org/speaker-blood
duntonj says:
December 14, 2011 at 8:47 am
Come on guys! Could we has some mature comments?
The UN has a major role to play,….. and even if it is only to “discuss” and propose ways forward. Policy making is a game that is affected by many actors, and even if we pt down the UN as useless, it has its role in shaping the direction that world should move towards.
It is easy to criticize the body, since it is immersed in so many conflicts and tackles so many issues ( disarmament, human rights, culture, refugees, etc.).
Instead of complaining, I don’t see many of you proposing solutions and ideas….
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The UN has a major role to play alright, to promote the wishes of the wealthy elite! The UN’s position on seed says it all as far as I am concerned. The UN takes the side of the likes of Monsanto against some poor starving peasant farmer. Do you need a better definition of EVIL?
I hated the UN and knew they were corrupt long before I even looked into CAGW. Nothing I have seen since makes me think it is in the best interest of the people of the world for the UN to continue to exist.
(This is from several years ago)
“…Instead of complaining, I don’t see many of you proposing solutions and ideas….”
On the contrary if you bothered to read comments for the last month or so some of the solutions presented were:
#1. Get rid of the vampires (World Bank, IMF, Central banks and Fractional Reserve Banking) These, esp. the World Bank, are very intertwined with the UN and CAGW.
This gets rid of the parasitic class interested only in more power and squeezing every cent out of the poor. SEE International Monetary Fund (IMF) and World Bank imposed structural adjustment programs (SAPs)
Warfare is about economics and it is not economical to fight a war unless more is gained in land/resources. Fractional Reserve Banking changed that by allowing politicians to wage wars without the general populous revolting due to the huge taxes needed to finance a war that shows no “Profit.” THUS Fractional Reserve Banking/Central Banking allows governments to borrow large amounts of money that find it’s way into the pockets of a few while the general population pays for it by the hidden tax called inflation. Get rid of the central bankers/fractional reserve banking and get rid of wars caused by the bankers promoting, financing and profiting from both sides of a conflict. Think the USA and Vietnam and leaving the gold standard followed by the massive inflation in the late seventies.
…the U.S. turned sharply and permanently from a foreign policy of peace and non-intervention to an aggressive program of economic and political expansion abroad. At the heart of the new policy were America’s leading bankers…
#2 . Promote smaller government and a close watch on government by citizens. Right now we have governments for the Transnational Banks/Corporations by the Transnational Banks/Corporations and they do not give a {self snip} about anyones welfare but their own.
The ugly collusion between Bill Clinton, Dan Amstutz (Cargill AND Goldman Sachs) who wrote both the WTO Agreement on Ag. and the Freedom to Fail farm bill (1996), Dwayne Andreas (CEO of ADM – biofuel – & one of the biggest campaign donor in the US to Democratic and Republican candidates alike) caused the food riots of 2008. Again the United Nations is neck deep in the mess with the WTO/UN writing Ag regs designed to be implemented world wide and guaranteed to wipe out individual family farms and replacing them with large environmentally devastating Corporate farms.
Again the United Nations/CAGW is neck deep in the mess with “carbon sink tree farms” grown on African and South American land stolen from the native peasant farmers. Farmers in the EU, Australia and Canada have not been spared either.
The Food Bubble: How Wall Street Starved Millions and Got Away With It http://harpers.org/archive/2010/07/0083022
http://www.foodfirst.org/files/shared_staff/audio/Food_Crisis_CFSC.pdf
http://www.grain.org/seedling/?id=592
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=2202
http://www.albionmonitor.com/9611a/doleadm.html
http://www.commondreams.org/views/051500-104.htm
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-241.html
Torgeir Hansson says:
December 13, 2011 at 10:59 am
I am a little puzzled by talk about dissolving the UN.
Unless this forum is full of thirteen-year olds with no sense of history, it should be unnecessary to
remind people that the U.N. was founded by the United States, in the United States, as an instrument for international collaboration, BECAUSE IT IS SO DAMN EXPENSIVE TO SEND AMERICAN BOYS AND GIRLS TO DIE IN SOME GODFORSAKEN PLACE WHEN A WAR BREAKS OUT!!!!!
————————————————————————————————————————-
You’ve got to be kidding, right?
How did the UN do for those American kids in Korea, Viet Nam, Afghanistan and Iraq?
Yes, the UN is one of the US’s biggest mistakes.
“The IPCC needs to be gutted, no question. But don’t give me this nonsense that the UN should be dissolved. Crack a history book. Learn about places like Normandy, Iwo Jima, Birkenau, Bastogne, Hiroshima, and Kursk. Until you have done so, don’t bother me with this dissolution talk.”
I did crack a history book. Tell me how the UN managed it’s oil-for-food program. Or how it’s managing the Darfur conflict. Or the Chad conflict. Or, for that matter, why is there still a DMZ in Korea?
If people seem to think that the UN is so good, why not have their HQ outside the US? Move it to Moscow. Let some diplomat claim “diplomatic immunity” if they break a Russian law.
@ur momisugly Henrythethird….
This is how the UN managed the oil for food program.
http://www.economicpopulist.org/content/exploitation-inc-david-rockefeller-and-adventures-global-finance
Just a FYI
“…the 18-acre site was donated to the newly-formed United Nations by John D. Rockefeller, Jr. “ http://nyc-architecture.com/MID/MID001.htm
Myrrh;
Anyway, the UN was set up by the world’s elite bankers, who finance both sides of any war>>>
Bullsh*t. The thing bankers fear most is war. They lend money out against securities like buildings and equipment. War has a tendency to destroy buildings and equipment, rendering the securities useless and last I checked, dead customers have a tendency not to fulfill their loan obligations. Your accusation is baseless, and rooted in odious conspriacy theories.
Myrrh;
the UN was set up by the world’s elite bankers, who finance both sides of any war, they set up the IPCC to deliberately find evidence for the claim that global warming was anthropogenic, they are the ones responsible for all these shenanigans. It is these people that Canada has a contract with. A contract is a contract.>>>
Another odious lie. Canada has no contract with any bank, directly or indirectly, in regard to the IPCC or global warming, and no UN obligation is either contractual, or related in any way to any bank run by anybody. This is not the place for conspiracy theories that do not stand up to more than a few seconds of scrutiny. You should be ashamed.
davidmhoffer says:
December 14, 2011 at 12:22 pm
Myrrh;
Anyway, the UN was set up by the world’s elite bankers, who finance both sides of any war>>>
Bullsh*t. The thing bankers fear most is war. They lend money out against securities like buildings and equipment. War has a tendency to destroy buildings and equipment, rendering the securities useless and last I checked, dead customers have a tendency not to fulfill their loan obligations. Your accusation is baseless, and rooted in odious conspriacy theories.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
That is why the wars take place in third world countries. They do not want to muck up their own nests.
davidmhoffer says:
December 14, 2011 at 12:22 pm
Myrrh;
Anyway, the UN was set up by the world’s elite bankers, who finance both sides of any war>>>
Bullsh*t. The thing bankers fear most is war. They lend money out against securities like buildings and equipment. War has a tendency to destroy buildings and equipment, rendering the securities useless and last I checked, dead customers have a tendency not to fulfill their loan obligations. Your accusation is baseless, and rooted in odious conspriacy theories.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Oh and David, You forget the banks do not lend wealth they lend “Fairy Dust” and if you think the bankers did not PROFIT from WWI, I suggest you read Louis T. McFadden’s Speech In the House of Representatives on 10 June 1932
The bankers profited alright, they CONFISCATED the gold of an ENTIRE NATION! What is even worse is that goldwas SUPPOSED to belong to the people of the USA who it was taken to provide a sound economic base for our national currency. Yet NO ONE can get the US government to do an inventory of Fort Knox. Calculations show there is no more “Good Delivery Gold” in Fort Knox it has all been swapped for federal reserve notes held by foreign banks. (US citizens could not swap a note for gold but until 1972 foreign banks could) http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/weber-c1.1.1.html and
It is well enough that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning. — Henry Ford
http://www.infoplease.com/t/hist/state-of-the-union/80.html
The incestual relationship between the US government and Goldman Sachs just doesn’t stop. http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2011/12/crony-capitalism-displayed-via-venn.html
I know this is not on topic….. as per Canada and the UN
but I also was concerned when a poster denied that bankster make or profit from war
http://bigeye.com/bankers_make_war.htm
Myrrh says:
December 14, 2011 at 9:59 am
Someone above mentioned that one of Canada’s, and the bigger of the two, tv stations hardly carried anything about Durban – that’s the problem, not something to be proud of.. The actual workings and decisions are being kept from us in practically all mainstream media, we should all know what Monckton analysed of the agreement concocted in Durban, but we don’t.
——–
That was me. Perhaps I should add some context. The coverage by CTV of climate change issues has been uniformly uncritical of the IPCC and climate alarmists – it is pure Reuters, as CTV does no investigative journalism on climate change science or politics. The fact that Durban is being ignored is a sign either that: 1) The mainstream moderately left-wing media is losing interest in the issue; or 2) The Canadian mainstream media is simply reflecting growing public distaste for this issue. Very few of our uncritical media types and journalists have the intellectual curiousity to find out what is really going on (National Post journalists and Rex Murphy being outstanding exceptions). So many are influenced by the perceived Noble Cause that it would be sheer heresy to question the received wisdom of the IPCC.
I agree that this state of affairs is nothing to be proud of. However, it’s a darn sight better than having politicized scientific propaganda shoved down our throats.
A final comment. The long-serving (48-years) weatherman for Toronto’s CFTO (a CTV affiliate), Dave Devall, for years tied in stories of hot weather or extreme weather events to global warming, and made comments about the evidence being indisputable. Then, a year or so before he retired in 2009, the tenor of the comments changed. He started saying “It’s just weather, folks,” or comments of that ilk. I have no idea what was behind this change, but it was very noticable to a skeptical viewer.
And it’s not even true. Power and status are the real dominant drives. Money is a tool and a token for those.
Dear me, please excuse both my spelling error and the mis quote …. but you know Brian the LOVE of money is a greed, power and status thing, just as you will find (my perception) these are some of the major things wrong with the UN. I stick by my previous suggestion to remove their power source…. stop funding them and watch them wither! Ban Ki Moon and his offsiders including the railway engineer will have no status, no position and no power if the UN folds. I believe in Santa Claus as well 🙂 I have hope!.
it is a shame that the troll Thor Hansson managed to hijack the thread with what I consider to be the real childish nonsense. Perhaps this is the real problem with Norway. Being dominated by far left individuals of their Labour Party, they have no means of understanding that Marxism is rampant in the world.
Communism and Fascism are variants of Marxism. Adolf Hitler was inspired by Karl Marx. There is little difference between these two ideologies. Also, in Communism as practised in the old Soviet Union, anti-Semitism and bigotry was equally practiced as it was in Adolf Hitler’s Germany. This is true of the Quisling Fascist government in Norway during that same period.
Cuba remains a Marxist country. They still practice Communism. Any difference, which is slight is due to the realization that they need some capital investment to survive in the long term. The elite still rule in Cuba. Amenities for the people are still appalling and yes, hospitals for Cuba’s poor are extremely sub-par on a comparison scale to what is available in Canada, the USA and elsewhere. The one and only hospital that is high tech in Cuba is reserved for the elite.
The UN is doomed to fail. It is doomed because the UN allows countries with tyrants and dictators control in such things as human rights when those nations constantly contravene the human rights of their own people. A good example is that of Syria. It is also doomed to fail just like the League of Nations. So far the difference has been the existence of NATO and SEATO, where those nations have taken a leading role in conflict and also in giving aid during times of disaster.
It was not so much the failure of the League of Nations that led to the 2nd World War as it was the implementation of the Treaty of Versailles. Germany had been humiliated after the first world war, and it was a bitter pill. The “little corporal” was one person who was not able to accept that defeat in good grace. However, it was the punishment via German reparations that did the real damage. Germany suffered hyperinflation as a result of those reparations. Now that sounds almost eerily familar these days, because the kind of “reparations” that the UN wants developed countries to pay is such that those developed countries could go the way of Germany between the two world wars. Germany could not afford those reparations demanded in the Treaty of Versailles, well neither can we, in Australia, the USA, Canada, the UK, France etc afford to pay billions to those developing nations, especially when “emissions” is such an iffy concept.
The UN has been growing in an unwieldly fashion. They are taking over the rights of our sovereign nations. This is why the UN needs to be disbanded. It is way too big for its boots. The threat to Canada must be looked at in terms of the UN thinking that it controls each an every country in a way that we, the people of those countries have never accepted.
Well, I suppose all PR is good PR, as long as they spell your name right. Thank you for the counter-arguments. As for anyone who thinks that Norway is a communist country: please go, and report back. And by the way, Norway is not spending a dime of the oil funds it has accumulated. It only uses the interest, because that Socialist Norwegian government believes that the country has a responsibility to share with the coming generations.
I believe Canada did the right thing, and that other Western nations will follow. The price tag of the Kyoto protocol is high, and no nation gets anything in return—including Third World Nations. Some in the Third World Nations like the concept, because the funds are easy pickings.
I believe WUWT does a great job of presenting the facts about climate change, and that is sorely needed. I believe it is a forum where conservatives and liberals who are opposed to the CAGW meme can cross party lines, get together and share some sanity. Most of all, they can get the facts and gain understanding. There aren’t many places on the Internet where that is true.
I think anyone who conflates the warmist agenda with communist takeover conspiracies is doing the skeptics of CAGW theories a disservice. CAGW is not a conspiracy, it is a meme. It is a meme tied to opportunism. There is money to be made. I have known too many people in my life who will profit from ignorance and confusion. They are the enemies of progress, and should be condemned.
Sovereign nations are still sovereign. If anyone one has the slightest doubt about it please observe what Canada just did.
When the UN begins to see more defection from the climate treaties, and growing disenchantment from countries over their climate activities, responsible adults in the organization will pull back, if for no other reason than it hurts the UN as an organization.
Someone remarked that communism and nazism in the end is the same thing. This is true, at least for the governed. Yet the dynamics in the United States today are closer to fascism and corporatism than to Communism. By far. Did anyone notice the Supreme Court Ruling on Citizens United? In spite of being mostly right, it still gave more power to money, and reduced the power of ordinary people. To he who proposed that it is not corporations but lobbyists who are getting fat off our current legislative paradigm, I can only say it is both. The vast majority of lobbyists work for corporations, and if there is money to be made from CAGW, the corporations will be first at the trough. And there is money to be made from CAGW. And yes, Al Gore and Rajendra Pachauri are examples of people who are profiteering from it.
I won’t. I believe in Anthony Watts and what he does. He is looking for the truth. I will follow him on that journey as best I can.
Aussie,
I never meant to hijack the thread. I responded to calls to disband the UN with what I found was proper contextual information. It seems I set off a match in an oil refinery.
If I have inconvenienced you in any way, I apologize.
Please do not think that I am here to cause disruption. This is where I find most of the rational information on climate change, and I participate regularly and to the best of my ability.
Torgeir Hannson;
Yet the dynamics in the United States today are closer to fascism and corporatism than to Communism. By far. Did anyone notice the Supreme Court Ruling on Citizens United?>>>
You are citing a decision by the supreme court that prohibits the government from censoring political broadcasts during an election as evidence that the US is moving toward fascism and corporatism? Did you miss the part about the ruling incuding unions and not for profit corps?
Torgeir Hannson;
The point is not that they failed, but that they tried, and they will again.
I never meant to hijack the thread.>>>
I disagree that you hijacked the thread. You brought a different perspective to the table on what in the end is the central issue of this thread. You see the IPCC as being a part of the UN that needs to be reformed, and others see the UN as being rotten to the core.
Thanks for making this thread an entertaining and informative read, regardless of how we may disagree on the substantive issues.
Torgeir,
you did not inconvenience me, but you could have handled the subject in a different way. The issue is one that is political. You get some of your information correct, but there is a lot that is incorrect.
For example, you mention the Citizens United case and then claim that it has something to do with a move towards corporatism. That is totally wrong. The decision in the SCOTUS was based upon freedom of speech, and whether or not disallowing the film to be run would in fact chill free speech. The decision did two things: (1) it struck down one clause in what is known as the McCain-Feingold Act relating to corporations and free speech – campaign donations. This in effect has an impact upon the need for the PAC which has been used to hide campaign donations. Please note that FOREIGN OWNED corporations are still prohibited from making campaign donations. (2) It reversed a previous decision within the Supreme Court that had the effect of chilling free speech. The film that was in dispute was one that was shining a bit of a light on Hillary Clinton.
Now if you had brought up the government takeover of General Motors, and the manner in which the bondholders and shareholders of General Motors were shafted by the government takeover, then you would be talking about corporatism, and YES, that is FASCISM in all of its ugly glory!! This is what happened in Germany during the NAZI era, where government controlled the car manufacturers and a whole lot of other things. There are just too many people who do not understand the real meaning of both Fascism and Nazism, which is actually the flip side of Communism.
As for conflating the warmist agenda with communism, well I think it better to refer to it as conflated with Marxism. There is plenty of evidence that this is the case, especially when the majority of its proponents are Marxist, and in particular the Green Party are Marxist. You do not seem to be aware that the German founders of the Green Party were Communists before they were Greens. This is also true in Australia. The best example is that of Senator Lee Rhiannon who was known as a “red diaper baby”. She was brought up as a Communist by her parents. Even our Australian Prime Minister Julia(r) Gillard (the dullard) has very strong links to the Communist Party and was a Fabian Socialist prior to joining the ALP. She is most definitely a Marxist. Another example is that of Van Jones – he is another Marxist and is said to be a Green. The Green Party aka the Watermelon Party because they are green on the outside and red on the inside do all of the pushing on this whole scam. This is why many people use the broad brush. It is what we are seeing!!
It is the same with the UN because there are a number of tyrants attached to the UN and they are all of the Marxist ideology – Venezuela, Cuba, Russia, China are some examples. When it comes to climate though, neither the Russians nor the Chinese are pushing that meme. This seems to be the work of Greenpeace and what we term the eco-Nazis or eco-terrorists. For years they have been conducting terror campaigns and they are not really interested in helping poor people. They use the UN as a cover for their own wants and desires.
I still say (and many other politically savvy Canadians)
say remember the UN Le Securitie Council snub?
SHOVE IT… EU
dwright
Torgeir Hansson says:
December 13, 2011 at 10:59 am
I am a little puzzled by talk about dissolving the UN.
Unless this forum is full of thirteen-year olds with no sense of history, it should be unnecessary to remind people that the U.N. was founded by the United States, in the United States, as an instrument for international collaboration, BECAUSE IT IS SO DAMN EXPENSIVE TO SEND AMERICAN BOYS AND GIRLS TO DIE IN SOME GODFORSAKEN PLACE WHEN A WAR BREAKS OUT!!!!!
The IPCC needs to be gutted, no question. But don’t give me this nonsense that the UN should be dissolved. Crack a history book. Learn about places like Normandy, Iwo Jima, Birkenau, Bastogne, Hiroshima, and Kursk. Until you have done so, don’t bother me with this dissolution talk.
———-
And just how are things better with the UN? I’ve read a fair amount of history for the period leading up to and including WW II. The League of Nations was worthless to stop the illegal re-armament of Germany, or the illegal Japanese naval expansion. The League was similarly worthless to stop the Japanese invasion of Manchuria.
The problem then was the failure of will by the peaceful democracies to actually *enforce* provisions of existing treaties. If grand councils and assemblies could prevent war, we would have had peace the past thousand years. In the end, if the evil powers in the world use military force to take what they will, opposing powers must use military force to prevent them.
I wish I could find it, but I really do remember what I think was on the dedication page of an edition of “History of the Peloponnesian War” by Thucidides. I don’t remember to whom it was attributed:
“We believe it true of Gods, as we know it true of Man: the strong take what they will
and hold what they can”.
What was true then remains so today. Believing the UN can change this simply invites another WW II.
Some links.
https://sites.google.com/site/myteurastaja/
@Alan Watt,
I agree with your comments regarding the UN, and the League of Nations. The League of Nations turned out to be a toothless tiger. I was not aware that there was any pressure on the Japanese when it came to “expanding” their navy since Japan had not been involved in the first world war. The restrictions were on Germany!!
I do not know where my copy of Thucydides went, but I can state that the Greeks were a very religious people with their belief in gods. When St. Paul spoke in Athens it was the first thing he mentioned to them, that he recognized that they were very religious.
Going back further than Thucydides, one can also look to the Scripture, and in particular Isaiah where there were warnings against making alliances with “other nations”. Well it seems that we modern people have ignored those warnings and made alliances with nations that are likely to stab us in the back. Isaiah warned against alliances with Egypt and other Middle Eastern nations when Israel was being attacked by what is now Iraq and then by what is now Iran!!! Nothing changes.
The UN has reached the same point as the League of Nations prior to World War II. It is a toothless tiger, but it has now extended its mission to include matters not related to potential conflict. The UN has not been successful in preventing any conflict, and it has stood back to watch genocide. The inaction over Syria’s abuse of its people, and its inaction when Iran did the same are just two examples of where the UN failed to act. However, it will always act if Israel strikes against those who have been lobbing missiles across their border. They also allow tyrants to have places on the human rights council, even when those countries are known for their human rights abuses.
These factors alone are sufficient to want to get rid of the UN 🙂
Mildly interesting pro-growth article on the oil situation in Canada:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/313944-the-untold-story-about-canada-s-defection