People send me stuff… UPDATE: See below for another interpretation
Remember how this was phrased? “sign it, it’s just voluntary!”
Recall Rio 1992 “Earth Summit” where the meme was “hey, it’s voluntary!…with a negotiating schedule attached”. Apparently, like a Roach Motel, “countries check in but they can’t check out”. This email is from UNFCCC’s list server and note my bolded section below. The arrogance, it burns.
—–Original Message—–
From: globalmedialist-all <globalmedialist-all@lists.unfccc.int>
To: globalmedialist-all <globalmedialist-all@lists.unfccc.int>; germanmedialist <germanmedialist@lists.unfccc.int>
Sent: Tue, Dec 13, 2011 4:46 am
Subject: [UNFCCC medialist] STATEMENT BY UNFCCC CHIEF ON CANADA’S ANNOUNCEMENT TO WITHDRAW FROM KYOTO PROTOCOL
STATEMENT BY UNFCCC CHIEF ON CANADA’S ANNOUNCEMENT TO WITHDRAW FROM KYOTO PROTOCOL
The Durban agreement to a second commitment period of the Kyoto Protocol represents the continued leadership and commitment of developed countries to meet legally binding emission reduction commitments. It also provides the essential foundation of confidence for the new push towards a universal, legal climate agreement in the near future.
I regret that Canada has announced it will withdraw and am surprised over its timing. Whether or not Canada is a Party to the Kyoto Protocol, it has a legal obligation under the Convention to reduce its emissions, and a moral obligation to itself and future generations to lead in the global effort. Industrialized countries whose emissions have risen significantly since 1990, as is the case for Canada, remain in a weaker position to call on developing countries to limit their emissions.
I call on all developed countries to meet their responsibilities under the Climate Change Convention and its Kyoto Protocol, to raise their ambition to cut emissions and to provide the agreed adequate support to developing countries to build their own clean energy futures and adapt to climate change impacts they are already experiencing.
==================================================
UPDATE: There’s some ambiguity here in the announcement, upon further reading it could be interpreted that they are saying this:
“I see you withdraw from Kyoto but you are still legally bound to reduce emissions UNDER THE 1992 ‘VOLUNTARY’ RIO UN FRAMEWORK CONVENTION ON CLIMATE CHANGE (UNFCCC)”.
So maybe it isn’t Kyoto they’re saying they can’t leave, but its parent treaty, Rio’s UNFCCC, which is the model for this Spring’s upcoming UNCSD ’12.
But that’s voluntary too, so how can a “voluntary” agreement be legally binding?
Canada is a cold northern hemisphere nation. our forefathers paid our dues living in windy wet log cabins and uninsulated dwellings for, up till the present, MOST of our existence as a populated territory and yes that applies to our aboriginals as well.
also, we are spread out over some 10,000,000 square kilometers so we really actually do need gasoline and diesel powered vehicles to get around.
dear rest of the world (except the big 3 non-signers India, China and USA): GET USED TO IT.
davidmhoffer says:
December 13, 2011 at 2:23 pm
Go David! I’m really enjoying your evisceration of our new entertaining troll. And the conversation remains more or less on topic!
—
Comments here are literally swelling my heart with pride for Canada, but the CBC Canadian elites are recoiling in horror, as the Canadian rejection of Kyoto is going to condemn all our descendents to an early death. One good sign is that CTV, which has a much larger viewership than the CBC, has not being paying too much attention to Durban.
We’ve got lots of Canadian spruce from which to whittle a nice stake to run through the UN’s rancid heart. Willis?
I call on all developed countries to meet their responsibilities under the Climate Change Convention and its Kyoto Protocol….
That’s about all you can do, since you’ve just “agreed” to outlaw war at COP-17.
Myrhh;
[SNIPPED AT COMMENTER’ REQUEST. -REP]
Excuse me?
Mods ~ ya wanna take another look at that comment?
And if you decide to leave it up, I’m aksing for permission to deal with it in the language that it deserves.
[REPLY: By all means, deal with it. Language Rules will continue to be enforced, however. -REP]
Interesting how the COP17 organization uses the term “Annex” in dealing with participants (albeit nobody apparently knows in which Annex Group they belong). So I looked up the word “annex” and found that it means several things:
So the UN’s true stance can be determined simply from the terminology they use, which is why they’re not going to let Canada drop out of this Kyoto debacle without stiff resistance. Canada may join freely, but they are trapped; they cannot leave freely.
So is the UN going to send in troops with blue helmets?
[REPLY: By all means, deal with it. Language Rules will continue to be enforced, however. -REP]
Frankly, I am shocked that a site that will not allow the “d” word would allow this sort of crap through. His comment continues on:
[SNIPPED AT COMMENTER’S REQUEST. -REP]
I will respond to this blatant racist remark that is the continuation of the blood libel that cost 6 million jews their lives in WWII in the morning when my temper gets to the point where I am not in danger of pounding the keys right through my keyboard. Sorry, but if it is the decision to leave that piece of hatred up, then my respect for WUWT will take a dramatic turn for the worse. You banned the “d” word. Is this piece of hatred any less deserving of that fate? I’ve enjoyed to no end my time on this site, but hate mongering is hate mongering and I don’t participate in sites that permit it.
[REPLY: I looked at the sites linked to. They were vile and the link has been removed. WUWT will not be party to spreading that kind of… stuff. -REP]
Torgeir Hansson says:
December 13, 2011 at 10:59 am
I am a little puzzled by talk about dissolving the UN.
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Ask Lieutenant-General Roméo Dallaire of Canada about how effective the UN is at preventing murder and genocide – think Rwanda – when the UN REFUSED to allow his troops to act or provide support while 800,000 Rwandans died along with soldiers in his command that were murdered.
Read the book or watch the movie – “Shake Hands with the Devil”
http://romeodallaire.com/
Why do you think the most recent actions to deal with issues have not been UN led? The UN, like the League of Nations before it, has become bureaucratized and useless. I have been inside and the rot is everywhere.
“But that’s voluntary too, so how can a “voluntary” agreement be legally binding?”
Robert McCloskey quote: “I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.”
Torgier Hanssen, sounds like a California loon—guess Norway wasn’t crazy enough. Anyway, too bad Chayefsky didn’t find the words to include the officious and once great Norwegians in his epic rant against Euro-centric superiority:
“I’ve dealt with Europeans all my life. I know all about us parvenus from the States who come over here and race around your old Cathedral towns with our cameras and Coca-cola bottles… Brawl in your pubs, paw at your women, and act like we own the world. We over-tip, we talk too loud, we think we can buy anything with a Hershey bar. I’ve had Germans and Italians tell me how politically ingenuous we are, and perhaps so. But we haven’t managed a Hitler or a Mussolini yet. I’ve had Frenchmen call me a savage because I only took half an hour for lunch. Hell, Ms. Barham, the only reason the French take two hours for lunch is because the service in their restaurants is lousy. The most tedious lot are you British. We crass Americans didn’t introduce war into your little island. This war, Ms. Barham to which we Americans are so insensitive, is the result of 2,000 years of European greed, barbarism, superstition, and stupidity. Don’t blame it on our Coca-cola bottles. Europe was a going brothel long before we came to town.
I don’t understand. Why does anyone give a rat’s @ur momisugly$$ what Rajenda Pachauri says? He has no authority to say much of anything, and he has no authority to interpret or enforce the Rio agreement and the UNFCCC. All of these are voluntary with no time lines.
timg56 says:
December 13, 2011 at 5:18 pm
Torgeir Hannson,
RE disolving the UN.
I would point out that at the time it was founded, no other international body existed
——
What about The League of Nations?
Torgeir Hansson says:
December 13, 2011 at 12:59 pm
davidmhoffer says:
December 13, 2011 at 12:45 pm
Yet, oddlly, I meet “communists” every day.
Your idea of a communist is anyone who wants to limit anything about the activity of any free market or anything else for that matter. That makes you an anarchist.
You live in a world of make believe. I live in the real world. When you choose to live in the real world, I’ll be happy to talk to you. In the meantime, happy trails.
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I am guessing by your name you already live in a socialist country or at least one with strong list to the left. So maybe “communist” is too strong, but for those of us who are fed up with the leftist news media like the BBC, CBC, and ABC … and seeing many of our countrymen visiting and supporting China … a certain amount of socialism is acceptable but it is easy to step over the line. …. I am fortunate to be an educated person who has travelled the world … but I come from ranching stock who are/were proud of their sunburned Red Necks and ability to work hard and not look for handouts. We were (and are) always happy to help our neighbours, but at branding time, we expect them to reciprocate and work just as hard as we do. There are no free rides. So, I agree with many others here: The UN is unreformable. Let it go and start anew.
[REPLY: I looked at the sites linked to. They were vile and the link has been removed. WUWT will not be party to spreading that kind… stuff. -REP]
Thankyou. Would you please snip from my own comments the words I quoted (in protest) from Myrrh’s comments? TIA.
Give them the Canadian finger …. we will do what is in our best interest … anything else is slavery.
Hi Anthony.
I turned from a believer in the integrity of the environmental movement and its predictions of catastrophes into a skeptic, after I read an article in 1990 in the New York Times Magazine by John Tierney about the famous bet between Julian Simon and Paul Ehrlich.
I then went on a (horribly difficult) search for the real facts. The environmental movement has long ago decided that it may exaggerate, oversimplify and downright lie for “the good cause”. And most media follow them unquestioningly.
Since then the best source of facts and serious debate I have found is your website that I visit every day. It is the place where I find serious serious research on the scare of the moment.
I need that because I find it really hard to get my head around the scope of the deceit.
Therefore I am worried to see some name calling against warmists lately. I am convinced that most environmentalists and those who trust them are well meaning people who simply cannot imagine the immensity of the damage that is done to humanity, especially to the poor, and to the reputation of science. People need help to be able to resist a way of thinking that is so widespread and is backed up by so many scientists and organizations of scientists.
Calling names does not help rational discussion and will make it easier for people to not take this site serious.
I too am sometimes furious at the deceit and betrayal, and let’s face it, as a result of certain policies the warmists have successfully lobbied for, many people have died; so yes, name calling is definitely in order, but let’s not do it on the site.
The day before yesterday I read “ASSHOLES” in a comment. Today the first comment is:
“Sieg Heil mein UN”.
I am sorry, but that is way over the top. ‘Sieg Heil’ was a nazi greeting.
I don’t know how you think about ‘asshole’ – I would snip it -, but let’s agree on not comparing warmists with nazis here.
Of course I understand you are all voluteers who have normal lives and limited time and can easily miss a nasty comment here and there.
I am immensely grateful for all you guy’s work, running this very, very important site.
• • vigilantfish says:
December 13, 2011 at 5:51 pm
Comments here are literally swelling my heart with pride for Canada, but the CBC Canadian elites are recoiling in horror…
Not too much horror it seems:
CBC News
Question of the Day Dec 12 2011 4.47 pm
Do you support Canada’s decision to withdraw from the Kyoto Protocol?
Yes – 63.54% (3,891 votes)
No – 35.29% (2,161 votes)
Not sure – 1.18% (72 votes)
Can’t be all WUWT readers surely?
RockyRoad says:
December 13, 2011 at 6:14 pm
“Interesting how the COP17 organization uses the term “Annex” in dealing with participants (albeit nobody apparently knows in which Annex Group they belong). So I looked up the word “annex” and found that it means several things:
4 : to incorporate (a country or other territory) within the domain of a state
5 : to obtain or take for oneself
So the UN’s true stance can be determined simply from the terminology they use, which is why they’re not going to let Canada drop out of this Kyoto debacle without stiff resistance. Canada may join freely, but they are trapped; they cannot leave freely.”
As the Soviets believed from the bottom of their hearts, any country that goes communist will remain communist forever. Signing onto Kyoto is not the same thing as going communist. But the same kind of relentless, endless pressure will be applied to anyone who tries to leave.
cgh says:
December 13, 2011 at 6:39 pm
“I don’t understand. Why does anyone give a rat’s @ur momisugly$$ what Rajenda Pachauri says? He has no authority to say much of anything, and he has no authority to interpret or enforce the Rio agreement and the UNFCCC. All of these are voluntary with no time lines.”
What we fear is that all the power of the Hollywood Gliterati and the Ruling Elites throughout the world, including the MSM, will be brought to bear on the conservative government in Canada. You know, do you not, that Obama will spank them soundly? The Canadian government faces a huge battering that should not exist in a reasonable world.
Why is Pachauri still employed by the UN? No one else would hire him.
Many Canadian boys have spilled their blood, at the request of the UN. They continue to spill blood in God forsaken locales throughout the world. Libya was the latest, where the UN call was answered by Nato’s 24/7 and Canada’s F18 interventions. The UN should tread lightly lest they awaken a sleeping polar bear. GK
“davidmhoffer says:
December 13, 2011 at 5:19 pm
Are you seriously of the opinion that had the UN existed, it would have have prevented WWII?”
It was called the League of Nations back then. It created a legally binding agreement called the Treaty of Versailles. Basically it said that as yet unborn citizens of a country were responsible to pay back damages caused by their parents, grandparents and great-grandparents. Similar to the ancient practice of killing the wives and offspring of a man that commits a crime.
The end result was the rise of Fascism, Hitler, WWII and 100 million dead.
Now the UNFCCC wants to make the as yet unborn citizens of industrialized countries responsible for the unwitting actions of their parents, grandparents and great-grandparents. How many billions will die this time?
A very appropriate remark, and one that Patton would appreciated, would be “nuts”.
Torgeir Hansson says:
December 13, 2011 at 12:27 pm
….Where we agree is that CO2 poses no threat to anyone. In cases where there is a whiff of CFCs, PFCs, mercury, benzene, toluol, and the list goes on, different story.
________________________________
That is criminal trespass. C. Chemical Co. got sued for it and lost in 1972 when I worked for them (all of three months till I found something better)
This was BEFORE the EPA existed or OSHA for that matter.
Proud to be a climate rebel without a “cause”
davidmhoffer says:
December 13, 2011 at 12:45 pm
“There is no communist around every corner. Hell, there are hardly any communists left in the world.”
Yet, oddlly, I meet them every day. I read their articles in newspapers and magazines and blogs and listen to them on TV news programs advocating incessantly for communist practices and limitation of capitalism and free market economies. Is there perhaps only one or two of them and they are just really really really really busy?
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Actually the are alive and well and as thick as fleas on a dog in Cambridge MA. They are also found on most university campuses.
However the present breed are more the bourgoise collectivist types grown to international super-elite. Carroll Quigley, Bill Clinton’s mentor was their historian. see: Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in Our Time. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/094500110X/
Dave Springer says: (December 13, 2011 at 3:49 pm)
Non! 🙂