From the :
Research by three New Zealand scientists may have solved the mystery of why glaciers behave differently in the Northern and Southern Hemispheres.
Geologist David Barrell of GNS Science, Victoria University geomorphologist Andrew Mackintosh and glaciologist Trevor Chinn of the Alpine and Polar Processes Consultancy have helped provide definitive dating for changes in glacier behaviour.
They were part of a team of nine scientists, led by Joerg Schaefer of the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory at Columbia University in New York, who used an isotope-dating technique to get very precise ages for glacial deposits near Mt Cook.
They measured the build-up of beryllium-10 isotopes in surface rocks bombarded by cosmic rays to pinpoint dates when glaciers in the Southern Alps started to recede. The technology is expected to be widely applied to precisely date other glaciers around the world.
Glaciers are sensitive indicators of climate changes, usually advancing when it cools and retreating when it warms.
The first direct confirmation of differences in glacier behaviour between the Northern and Southern Hemispheres, the new work topples theories based on climate in the Northern Hemisphere changing in tandem with the climate in the Southern Hemisphere.
The research argues that at times the climate in both hemispheres evolved in sync and at other times it evolved differently in different parts of the world.
Dr Barrell said their research presented “new data of novel high precision”, though the team has so far chosen not to roll out wider interpretations too quickly.
He said much of it reinforced work done 30 years ago by Canterbury University researcher Professor Colin Burrows, who used NZ glacier data to highlight some of the similarities and differences between northern and southern records over the past 12,000 years.
The paper published in Science magazine yesterday showed the Mt Cook glaciers advanced to their maximum length 6500 years ago, and have been smaller ever since.
But glaciers in the Swiss Alps advanced to their maximum only in the past 700 years – during the Northern Hemisphere’s “Little Ice Age”, which ended about 1860.
During some warm periods in Europe, glaciers were advancing in New Zealand. At other times, glaciers were well advanced in both areas.
In a commentary which accompanied the research, Greg Balco, from the Berkeley Geochronology Centre in California, said the conclusion that glacier advances in the Northern and Southern Hemispheres were not synchronised was “unexpected”.
Dr Barrell said the paper presented only the first instalment of the dating work, and more would be revealed at an international workshop on past climates to be held at Te Papa on May 15.
“The New Zealand findings point to the importance of regional shifts in wind directions and sea surface temperatures,” he said.
Regional weather patterns such as the El Nino Southern Oscillation were superimposed on the global climate trends reflected in the behaviour of glaciers.
– NZPA
(h/t to Leon Broznya)
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“”” Claude Harvey (23:15:45) :
This finding would seem at odds with a recent study reported in WUWT. In it, the analysis of New Zealand cave stalactites purportedly indicated the European medieval warming period had been simultaneously experienced in the southern hemisphere. “””
What’s the mystery? The study says the Fox Glacier reached its most advanced position 6500 years ago, and has been receding since. They do not say it has been receding monotonically. In fact Fox Glacier, and its cousin Franz Joseph Glacier a few mile up the road regularly advance and recede. When I was there New Year’s Day of 2007, both were advancing, but you could see from the signs and early photographs where the glacier had been earlier and it was much more advanced than it is today. At it’s furthest advance the chances are the Fox Glacier ended up in the Tasman Sea. In Jan 2007 you could walk right up to the very face, and that brown strip on the bottom left of the picture above.
Some rocket scientists were actually walking inside ice caves at the bottom of the front face with overhanging cliffs above them (for photo opportunities. The string of large ice blocks that had bounded 1/4 mile down stream from that face; probably would give some clue as to one’s life expectancy for being so foolish. Unlike in the USA; in NZ, they don’t care too much if you want to off yourself in such a fashion. Don’t look for a payoff for your hers . The signs plainly tell you it is illegal to even go up there that far (without being on a guided trek.
The long term trend is they retreat from the last ice age, but on shorter (30 year) time scales they wax and wane.
George
And in other glacier-related research: It has been pointed out that glaciers grind rock, causing increased chemical reactions with that rock. Because CO2 often reacts with rock, ice age events can reduce CO2 levels. Another reason to wonder what is the “right” amount of CO2.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090429180955.htm
“”” Tom Fuller (23:55:03) :
But, as someone who is proud to be a liberal, I can hope that other participants in this debate remember the essential utility of liberalism–the tolerance that allows consensus and yes, compromise. President Obama’s energy plan is a good start for this country, and I say that as one who is skeptical about the current range of catastrophic outcomes predicted by alarmists. Let’s use it as a starting point for Round Two of debate on climate change. “””
What debate are you talking about. There is no debate; the science is settled remember !
Just what Obama energy plan are you talking about: his “energy plan” is a massive tax scam designed to raise the trillions of dollars required to fund his wild socialist Marxist totalitarian take over of America.
Tolerance ? you have to be kidding. In the Congress, the minority party may not even introduece ANY legislation; and may not make amendments to legislation the majority party puts up. If the minor party doesn’t vote for the legislation of the major party; they are obstructionists, and mean spirited.
Well the minority party is supposed tor resist stupid legislation that will destroy the country the founders gave us. All three branches of the Government simply run roughshod over the Constitution. The Constitution grants authority to the Congress to make uniform laws of bankruptcy that apply uniformly everywhere in th4e USA; but this little dictator simply usurps authority he doesn’t have and simply tells a private business that they have to sell out or go bankrupt under his rules; which is to give that company to the ubiob workers who helped put him in absolute power; “we won” is his authotity to do whatever Saul Alinski taught him and other radicals to do.
You’ve got to be living in a dream world Tom; if you think this is what the American People voted for.
Well you and your fellow liberals have the whole ball of wax now; so whatever happens next is on your ticket.
When the minority part can not raise a single vote to support wild run amok legislation; and significant numbers of the Majority part can’t either; that is usually a warning that the train is off the rails.
Enjoy it while you can Tom; your children, and your grandchildren; and their granchildren are going to love you, for what you are doing to this once great country.
Maybe with luck Mother Nature will step in and throw the light of reality on this foolishness.
“”” E.M.Smith (08:59:28) :
RW (00:41:06) : After all, the mediaeval warming period and little ice age were largely northern hemisphere phenomena, “””
Not so. A number of authors have done reviews of hundreds of world wide studies of various climate indicators and show that BOTH the the MWP and the LIA were indeed global phenomena.
But you only have to look at the land/water assymmetry, with most of the land being in the northern hemisphere, and most of the water in the southern hemisphere, including both the Arctic, and the Antarctic; to see that you wouldn’t expect both hemishperes to fall lockstep into the same patterns.
One famous phenomenon that definitely was not global; as stated even by it’s best known promoter; is the Mann “Hockey Stick”
The original publication of the phenomenon states quite learly at the top of the graph: “NORTHERN HEMISPHERE”
So we know the hockey stick was just a local anomalie; not a global event; Mann said so.
“””
Each glacier has an idiosyncratic local set of conditions in the water field supply of vapor mass and the snow field accumulator along with the foot melt point. These are very unlikely to be in simple sync with a LIA “average” temperature. Not to mention that shifts of ocean currents and winds could have a dramatic impact on a single little island like N.Z. while still being part of a global cooling. “””
Time for a little geography E.M.
New Zealand definitely is NOT a “single little Island”, as any credible map of the world will show; And it is somewhere between Oregon, and California in size. If you flipped NZ across the equator, and moved it to the US West Coast, it would stretch from up in the Gulf of Alaska, down to the Mexican border: and it has four islands; North Island, South Island, Stewart Island, and Rangitoto.
So it definitely does have its own climate.
“”” Mike Lorrey (10:21:50) :
” Claude Harvey (23:15:45) :
This finding would seem at odds with a recent study reported in WUWT. In it, the analysis of New Zealand cave stalactites purportedly indicated the European medieval warming period had been simultaneously experienced in the southern hemisphere.”
Actually, there is no contradiction. The Lorrey paper says the glaciers grew during the LIA, NOT the MWP. Please reread it more closely.
Furthermore, you should also pay attention to the relative altitudes of the caves and the glaciers. “””
Mike,
The ancient glacial moraine beds of the Fox glacier ar essentially at sea level; same for Franz Joseph. The main hiway past both of those is only a few feet above the sea, and the present glacier terminal face might be 200 feet up the canyon; but I doubt it is much more; they are sea level glaciers, although they start a good way up the Mount Cook area of the Southern Alps.
George