From the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, word of insanity afoot in local government there. I wonder if the board members at Parks and Recreation will give up their cars, or maybe their home furnace?
Beach bonfires may be banned
They fuel global warming, parks department says
P-I REPORTER
Even with the skies overcast and threatening rain, Khang Nguyen, 18, and Joel Juan, 19, kicked back after school at Alki Beach.
“It’s just a relaxing way to hang out with friends,” Nguyen said of the bonfire crackling in front of them one evening earlier this week.
But Seattle Parks and Recreation might do what even this week’s chilly weather couldn’t — douse the long tradition of beach bonfires at Alki and at Golden Gardens.
Park department staff is recommending reducing bonfires at the two beaches this summer and possibly banning them altogether next year.
The park board will hear the recommendation Thursday, and the city plans to run public-service announcements and hand out brochures later this month about the effects of bonfires on global warming.
According to a memo to the park board from the staff released Thursday, “The overall policy question for the Board is whether it is good policy for Seattle Parks to continue public beach fires when the carbon … emissions produced by thousands of beach fires per year contributes to global warming.”
Under the proposal, the department in July would reduce the number of fire rings at Alki from six currently to three and at Golden Gardens from 12 to seven.
Then later this year, the department would consider banning bonfires or requiring fees and permits to reduce the number of bonfires next year.
It’s the second time in the past few years the tradition of lounging by a fire at the beach has run up against the environmental ramifications of bonfire smoke.
Parks and Recreation recommended banning the fires in 2004, after a violation notice from the Puget Sound Clean Air Agency to the city after someone set a couch on fire at Alki Beach. However, 1,200 people signed a petition to save Alki’s bonfires, and 100 others signed a petition to save the ones at Golden Garden.
Instead, park staff said the department should do more to regulate what people burn and make sure the fires are out by 11:30 p.m.
“I think people still feel the same way (about preserving bonfires),” said Larry Carpenter, treasurer of the Alki Community Council. “Old-timers see bonfires as a tradition that they did as children and growing up. It’s a nostalgia thing.”
At Alki on Wednesday night, Linda Garcia, a 56-year- old West Seattle resident, walked her dog and made a slightly rose-colored argument for preserving her beloved bonfires. “It’s so windy around here it probably doesn’t pollute that much.
“They have to try to take everything away,” she said.
Sara Russell, 34, who also was walking her dog, rolled her eyes at the idea of banning bonfires to stave off global warming.
“If they really wanted to do something, they could enforce the no-cruising law, because in the summer you see so many cars cruising around here,” she said.
Russell’s neighbor, Debbie Nichols, said that last July Fourth, she got up at 5:30 a.m. to grab one of the fire pits. “I wrapped myself in a blanket and sat there all day,” Nichols said. “We use the fire pits all year round.”
Since the park board last heard the issue, the department assigned more staff to the two sites. The number of fires using illegal materials has dropped by two-thirds, according to the park memo.
The memo also noted that restrictions could cause illegal fires and fights over the limited number of fire pits. Charging fees to use the pits could disproportionately bar youths and low-income people from having bonfires, the report said.
But Mayor Greg Nickels’ plan to reduce climate-threatening pollutants “begs the question of whether Seattle Parks is acting responsibly … to systematically reduce controllable contributions to global warming,” the memo said.
“I can certainly understand it. (Global warming) is a legitimate concern,” said Robert Drucker, vice president of the Sunset Hill Community Association.
Still, he said of the bonfires at Golden Gardens: “It’s a long-standing tradition. I think people would be upset to see it go.”
But at Alki, Nguyen said he’d be OK with banning bonfires.
“By all means, I’d rather not have bonfires than have global warming,” he said.
As a sliver of silvery sky shrank under the growing clouds, Nguyen played a guitar, and maybe for the last year, the flames licked the salt air.
MORE INFORMATION
The Seattle Board of Park Commissioners will hear the bonfire ban proposal at its next meeting, Thursday at 7 p.m. The meeting will be at the park department’s offices at 100 Dexter Ave. N.
Let’s see:
Cutting down trees increases albedo.
Building houses from them sequesters CO2.
So let’s cut down every last tree now & build lots of houses and legally require everyone to use whitewash & chlordane to kill the termites.
And wait! Solar panels are dark! They decrease albedo. We’ve got a bigger problem now.
The world is heating up bad… Misery
I’m the kind of guy
Who never used to cry
The world is heating up bad… Misery!
We’ve doomed her now for sure
We can’t live here no more
It’s gonna be a drag… Misery!
Sorry Mosh I was away.
By my calculations the 750,000 acres of forest fires in Oregon in 2007 produced 60 million metric tonnes of GHGs, as much as all anthropogenic sources in the state put together. So yes, some reduction in forest fire acreage would go a long ways toward meeting the erstwhile goal of reducing GHG production, without any impact on transportation, industry, heating, etc. Plus averting environmental degradations of water, air, habitat, scenery, recreation, etc. generated by forest fires.
In contrast, banning beach bonfires would have an absurdly minuscule effect. Moreover, beach bonfires in the Pac NW are a tradition that goes back at least 13,500 years, one that pre-dates all other traditions known or conjectured.
“But how much C02 is released when the brain of a Parks Department official rots?”
Not a lot. It may be mainly carbon, but there isn’t a great deal of it……
I keep saying Global Warming is the 21st Century McCarthism.
“Have you ever or do you plan to in the future light a bon fire??”
This is absolutely getting out of hand….
When I moved to Colorado in ’72 we could get a permit to cut and remove any deadwood in the forests, and I heated my home that way until we weren’t allowed to cut deadwood because the human traffic caused ‘damage’ to the forests, even though it helped mitigate forest fires. Now, the same wood and more burns in place due to forest fires.
Pendleton, Oregon, that bastion of redneck republicanism, has declared they plan to restrict wood burning stoves when weather causes air stagnation. If stagnation gets very bad, all wood burning stoves will be shut down. Burn all the oil and gas you want, turn up the electric heater, but don’t light a fire in your wood burning stove.
It’s what I’ve been sayin and sayin. Red or blue, GW mania can infect both sides of the isle.
Jeez,
I thought you would say that the ‘white album’ was alebedo mania.
ringo would laugh at that pun.
Jim ardnt,
white hats is a great idea! I’m suprised this hasnt been touted on RC!
also if you are big fat and white you should be forced to lay naked in the sun and make an albedo contribution. ok, bad idea.
I believe there is actually an issue with wood burning, but it has nothing to do with the fact that it emits C02. The issue would be if, and how much it contributes to smog, if indeed that is a problem in that area. And yes, Pam, air stagnation could be a very real concern when it comes to wood burning stoves. We need to be mindful of the fact that air pollution is still a very real issue, clouded as it is by the AGW idiots calling C02 pollution.
If you do not comply, the new Puritans will Burn You at the Stake!!!
Anyone ever watch Arab TV? They always talk about the will of Allah.
Western TV is no different – they always insert “Save the Planet” into every hour of TV in some way. The Green propoganda is everywhere.
URGENT – WEATHER MESSAGE
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE PENDLETON OR
258 AM PDT SAT JUN 7 2008
ORZ043-071630-
/O.NEW.KPDT.FZ.W.0004.080608T0800Z-080608T1600Z/
/O.CON.KPDT.FZ.W.0003.000000T0000Z-080607T1600Z/
CENTRAL OREGON-
INCLUDING THE CITIES OF…BEND…LA PINE…PRINEVILLE…REDMOND
258 AM PDT SAT JUN 7 2008
…FREEZE WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 9 AM PDT THIS MORNING…
…FREEZE WARNING IN EFFECT FROM 1 AM TO 9 AM PDT SUNDAY…
THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN PENDLETON HAS ISSUED A FREEZE
WARNING…WHICH IS IN EFFECT FROM 1 AM TO 9 AM PDT SUNDAY. A
FREEZE WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 9 AM PDT THIS MORNING.
FOR THIS MORNING…TEMPERATURES NEAR AND BELOW THE FREEZING MARK WILL
BEGIN TO WARM AS THE SUN RISES. MOST TEMPERATURES SHOULD RETURN
ABOVE FREEZING BY 9 AM THIS MORNING.
FOR TONIGHT…TEMPERATURES WILL DROP BELOW FREEZING ACROSS CENTRAL
OREGON TONIGHT. WINDS WILL DECREASE AND DRIER AIR ALOFT WILL ALLOW
FOR RADIATIONAL COOLING. TEMPERATURES WILL BE BELOW FREEZING FOR
AT LEAST THE COUPLE HOURS BEFORE AND AFTER SUNRISE. CLEAR SKIES
SUNDAY MORNING SHOULD ALLOW FOR TEMPERATURES TO QUICKLY RISE,
HOWEVER, AREAS IN MORNING SHADOW MAY TAKE A LITTLE LONGER TO
RESPOND.
A FREEZE WARNING MEANS SUB-FREEZING TEMPERATURES ARE IMMINENT OR
HIGHLY LIKELY. THOSE WITH AGRICULTURAL INTERESTS IN THE WARNED
AREA ARE ADVISED TO HARVEST OR PROTECT TENDER VEGETATION. ALSO…
POTTED PLANTS NORMALLY LEFT OUTDOORS SHOULD BE COVERED OR BROUGHT
INSIDE AWAY FROM THE COLD. FOR ADDITIONAL WEATHER INFORMATION
Mrs. Gray
I miss your point about wood burning. How is smog a GW issue?
This is no flame or a burn
I just want to learn.
Steve
I could lie out in the sun. As I am fairly pasty white, I have a high albedo. Thus, I reduce global warming.
But, wait, the longer I lie out there, the more tan I get, thereby reducing my albedo. Man, I can’t win.
Ah, sunscreen. That is the secret. Clearly a high enough SPF can reduce AGW.
SPF!! Of course. We need SPF helicopters spraying the entire land surface: plants, animals, houses, people, everything. Coat the planet in SPF. That’ll do the trick. Or bleach. Or maybe tinfoil?
Last time I looked, Washington did have a coal power plant. In Centralia.
And if we all painted our roofs white, used white paving, and drove white cars we could probably start an ice age.
But what if the greatest source of greenhouse warming is the millions of parked automobiles that act as little greenhouses in the sunshine?
[quote] I thought you would say that the ‘white album’ was alebedo mania.[/quote]
D’oh!
I have a sketchy note that indicates that a human produces 15L/hour of CO2 ‘at rest’, and 45L/hour ‘moderate activity’. Does anyone have an actual reference for this sort of information, particularly if it goes into more detail? (Sleeping vs sitting vs walking vs triathalon etc.)
Take a close look at the data…the earth has not warmed in a decade and I recently read that Dr. James Hansen of NASA (Gore’s science advisor) has been “cooking the books” on surface temperature change.(ref.www.icecap.us)
Congrat’s to all of you who have your eye’s wide open, there’s surly more falderal to come.
According to this site we exhale about 21L C02/hour at rest (468L air x .0445% C02), and 213L during vigorous exercise:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?Take the car and save the planet.
Singing tends to require quite a bit of air, particularly if you like to ‘belt’ them out, so figure at least 100 – 150 L/hour of C02 produced for that activity. According to AGW theology, it would be best for Gaia if everyone just stayed home, and did nothing whatsoever (unless we decide to take the ultimate sacrifice), and most especially, nothing remotely vigorous (yes, none of that, you know what that leads to – more of us!).
Jeez wrote: … The world is heating up bad… Misery …
Reminds me of the song from the old country music/humor show “Hee-haw”:
“Dooooom, despaaair,
and agony on me …
[sliding wail] OoowOOoooooooo
Deep, dark depression,
excessive misery …
[sliding wail] OoowOOoooooooo
If it weren’t fer bad luck
I’d have no luck at all …
[sliding wail] OoowOOoooooooo
Doooom, despaaaair,
and agony on meeeeeee …
Pamela:
In the PNW cities are dem whether on the west or east side of the Cascades. On the East side, this is largely a result of demographics with Hispanics being in greater numbers in those urban areas.
In Yakima, Pendleton, Spokane, and Bend its much the same. As second and third generations of Hispanics have reached voting age they support the party that provided them with support.
So don’t be too surprised to hear of these stories. They will become more common as more Hispanics reach voting age.
The ban on wood burning stoves include DEQ stoves. No ban on driving though. No ban on factory exhaust. No ban on anything other than private citizen wood burning. Think about it. This seems a political move.
Pam,
So what is extraordinary about a one-size-fits-all government rule? And if you are in favor of big government then don’t complain when it bites you.
Still, pollution is a community concern and could be properly addressed by government. Perhaps if government quit concerning itself about things it has no proper business in then it could do its proper jobs better. And think of all the money private citizens would have to by non-polluting wood stoves.
Even with the more modern wood stoves, the amount of air pollution they emit is very much dependent upon the operator, and on their choice of material they burn. Sad, but true. No easy answers, I’m afraid.