Gore’s green money machine

Excerpted from The Liberal War on Transparency by Chris Horner

So, Al Gore came to do good and ended up doing really, really well, according to the Washington Post. That’s actually not unique for Washington, except possibly as a matter of scale: Gore went from being worth $2 million when leaving office to about $100 million now.

Gore, of course, “invested” in or otherwise found profitable arrangements with many companies whose financing mostly comes courtesy of the taxpayer, either directly, or indirectly in that private money flocks to that which politicians wed themselves to — the “halo effect” — on the knowledge that once the spigot opens it is difficult to turn off for fear of having a taxpayer-funded flop on their hands.


I couldn’t help but be reminded, by this story, of the personnel executing these programs for President Obama, he of the $90 billion in “green energy” money squandered on boondoggles whose own owners’ sales pitch for the dough was unless you give me this money, I won’t exist.

For example, in one of those funny coincidences of life, did you know that Obama appointed the CEO of Al Gore’s own pro-green energy advocacy group, Alliance for Climate Protection, to be his Assistant Secretary of Energy for Renewable Energy? I detail this in a chapter of my new book, The Liberal War on Transparency: Confessions of a Freedom of Information “Criminal” (greens hailed this move as akin to his coup of plucking Van Jones!)

After it became clear that she was not about to be confirmed for a higher position to which Obama moved her, Ms. Zoi moved out to start a Gore-like fund with some guy named Soros. But while Zoi was in government, I obtained some of her emails under the Freedom of Information Act. I also obtained a whole lot more discussing her orders and actions. More on that in the book, but here’s the big-picture.

Proving that transparency in government can be as entertaining as it is illuminating, I got hold of an email from Ms. Zoi’s close pal, the Managing Director of Solyndra’s outside political consulting firm. Just a note to let her know he was “at [the] poolside bar at Caesars having a drink” with her “Senior Advisor” (a twenty-something poli-sci grad). Right about then, back in Washington, President Obama’s political team was leaning on colleagues in government to get a campaign bundler’s company — Solyndra — a historically wasteful loan guarantee, soon to be predictably squandered.

Cheers! Other emails showed assistant secretary Zoi bantering as close confidantes do with yet a different partner in Solyndra’s political firm, for example arranging dinner at her house that weekend which promised to be a blast as “a couple of other fun political animals will be there”. Other Zoi emails showed her enlisting the same firm, apparently pro bono (although that would seem to be a legal no-no under The Anti-Deficiency Act, 31 USC § 1342), to help pull together materials she wanted to consider when developing DOE’s campaign, pushing the same agenda but from the inside.

But, no, that whole Solyndra and “green stimulus” boondoggle and the cronies that made out at the taxpayer’s expense, that came about due to the merits.

With the current administration, risibly self-congratulating as the most transparent in history, we now know to ask sooner than we did with Solyndra, even if by the time that scandal broke I had already used information requests to expose the basic but thorough corruption of Obama’s “green energy” operation. For example, another of my FOIA requests to Zoi’s fiefdom in the Department of Energy led to a treasure trove of emails exposing what Investor’s Business Daily called “The Big Wind Cover-Up.” This also uncovered the collaborative effort to smear the Spanish “green jobs” economics professor and his team’s work documenting the true disaster of liberal plans to reorganize America’s economy as “the clean energy economy.”

FOIA allowed me to chase down the genesis of this panic-driven attempt at discrediting people viewed as political opponents, this instance confirmed aggressive violations of Barack Obama’s promises of transparency and to banish lobbyists from insider roles in the policy process.

But documents pried out of the administration also let slip revealing details of how this defense of a “renewables” industry that Solyndra later made famous but all along made Gore and other well-connected types wealthy was coordinated with industry lobbyists and left-wing pressure groups. These included Soros’s project, the Center for American Progress, using the industrial wind lobby as the go-between in anticipation of DOE claiming, for example, to Congress that it “had no direct contact with” CAP or another pressure group to which the windmill lobbyists served as DOE’s “cutout” contact.

IBD described these records as being as substantively explosive as the previously described “Climategate” leak in 2009 of emails and computer code, because it showed senior Obama political appointees doing the bidding for industries that were propped up in the name of an anti-energy ideology and crony capitalism joined with the assault on abundant domestic energy sources that work and therefore also disfavored for ideological reasons.

With truths like these trickling out while we still have access to public records, it’s no surprise that Al Gore did so well “investing.” How he does if taxpayers decide that enough is enough remains to be seen.

Christopher C. Horner is a Washington, D.C. attorney and author of the new book The Liberal War on Transparency: Confessions of a Freedom of Information “Criminal” (Threshold Editions, published October 2, 2012)

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83 Responses to Gore’s green money machine

  1. bushbunny says:

    O/T Your emails are going to my Spam page again Anthony?

  2. With a republican president, I expect to see the SEC and DoJ go after Gore and his ilk. The schadefruede will be delightful.

  3. 0U812 says:

    [snip]

  4. MikeN says:

    I don’t think the initial 2 million number is accurate. Al Gore at that point had a long career as a well compensated Senator plus 8 years as vice-president. On top of that, his family owns Occidental Petroleum, he has a mining operation on his land in Carthage. It is likely that he was worth over ten million at a minimum.

  5. LazyTeenager says:

    Chris reckons
    or indirectly in that private money flocks to that which politicians wed themselves to — the “halo effect”
    ———-
    Ahh, should I reinterpret this to mean, that Chris’ whole thesis of Gore’s wealth being derived entirely from political connections fell in a heap when confronted with the evidence. And this “halo effect” is the gas he injected into the balloon to keep it floating.

  6. bushbunny says:

    They have to get in first? I don’t think they will, although I hope they do. Just on the Gore debacle alone, won’t push them forward it will be domestic matters that will count.

  7. Bennett In Vermont says:

    Philip Bradley says: “With a republican president, I expect to see the SEC and DoJ go after Gore and his ilk. The schadefruede will be delightful.”

    Exactly.

    Unless not, in which case all bets are off and head for the country (I’m already there).

  8. OssQss says:

    We have currently in power what amounts to, comparatively speaking, the new age Mob.

    How does the current Al vary from Capone?

    I remember a quote ” I have built my organization upon fear”

    Is it different with the newer Al?

    Think about it………..

  9. Otter says:

    Didn’t algor already sink $300 million into some little-watched public tv channel?

  10. Ric Werme says:

    A couple other links to the story.

    One from HuffPo, saying some of the same stuff: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/12/al-gores-net-worth-green-energy_n_1961299.html

    A counter article from a group that “Media Matters posts rapid-response items as well as longer research and analytic reports documenting conservative misinformation throughout the media.”: http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/10/11/wash-post-omits-crucial-context-for-gores-green/190545

  11. milodonharlani says:

    Gore also made out like a bandit while on Google’s board, “working” hand in glove with Soros:

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,301276,00.html

    Yet he found time to mash masseuses.

  12. zootcadillac says:

    bushbunny says:
    October 13, 2012 at 7:10 pm

    “O/T Your emails are going to my Spam page again Anthony?”

    Nothing Anthony can do about that. That’s happening at your end. Either your provider or client is flagging it as spam in which case you will have to indicate that it is not.

  13. LazyTeenager says:

    Philip Bradley on October 13, 2012 at 7:10 pm
    With a republican president, I expect to see the SEC and DoJ go after Gore and his ilk. The schadefruede will be delightful.
    ———–
    So can I safely assume you voted for Bush instead of Gore? In that case the whole world should express its eternal gratitude to you and your deep wisdom and political insight. Just think if you had voted for Gore instead we would have missed out on the Iraq war, the afghan war, the global financial crisis and Osam Bin Laden would have been caught and executed within a couple of years. That Al Gore is just plain evil and would have deprived us of all that.

    Now what have you got in mind for us with your next selection for president? Sounds like you are going to try and reboot the GFC. We will love you for it.

  14. pat says:

    something tells me WaPo have been busy trying to counter Gunderson:

    4 Oct: The Street: Bill Gunderson: Al Gore Walks Away From Green Energy
    His company’s public investments in wind, solar, biomass and other alternative energy to combat climate change are practically non-existent.
    But his portfolio is top-heavy in high-tech, medical instruments, and even more pedestrian investments in companies such as Amazon (AMZN), eBay (EBAY), Colgate Palmolive (CL), Nielsen (NLSN), Strayer University (STRA), and Qualcomm (QCOM).
    He is also big in China, with stakes in a big Chinese travel agency, CTrip, and China’s largest medical equipment manufacturer, Mindray Medical.
    And if you want a piece of the natural gas pipeline game — heavily dependent on the environmentally suspect fracking — you can find that in Gore’s portfolio as well with Quanta Services (PWR).
    Generation Investment even had a piece of Staples (SPLS) at one point — but that was before anyone realized that was Mitt Romney’s love child.
    Not an Apple (AAPL) to be found, despite the fact that Gore sits on its board of directors. But Generation Investment at one time did have a piece of General Electric (GE) and Procter & Gamble (PG) and that global warming game-changer, PayChex (PAYX).
    http://www.thestreet.com/story/11727215/1/al-gore-walks-away-from-green-energy.html

  15. u.k.(us) says:

    It is a story, waiting to be written.

  16. pat says:

    btw chris horner’s delingpole radio interview was excellent.
    here’s another group worth investigating, mr. horner, along with meridian institute, national teach-in and others connected to it:

    11 Oct: Fox News: John Brandon: Group calls for executive order demanding action on climate change
    The Presidential Climate Action Project (PCAP) launched in 2007 to call the 44th U.S. President into action, suggesting an executive order that would overrule Congress. On Oct. 1, the group issued its latest annual report, arguing that just as the President can authorize an act of war in an emergency, he could mandate a cap on carbon emissions, approve funds for energy research, and impose environ
    mental standards…
    Some experts were quick to blast the group’s plan, calling it “obviously silly.”
    “It relies on a poll to show that they have gotten away with convincing a lot of people that ‘unusual weather’ is a sign of climate change — despite the fact that ‘unusual weather’ is always occurring someplace and that there has been no meaningful long period trend,” Richard S. Lindzen, professor of atmospheric sciences at MIT, told FoxNews.com. “And from this absurd start, they proceed to suggest that it will be possible to end what is natural by carbon control?”
    “Imposing such controls by executive order seems merely designed to prevent the American people from finding out the truth before the policies are implemented,” he said. “Obviously, the … report is silly.”…
    http://www.foxnews.com/science/2012/10/11/executive-order-for-action-on-climate-change/

    PCAP: The 2012 Action Plan is now available
    Now with the help of the Rockefeller Brothers Fund, PCAP has been revived for the 2012 election season.
    As before, we are engaging some of America’s most distinguished thought leaders…
    http://www.climateactionproject.com/

  17. OssQss says:

    LazyTeenager says:
    October 13, 2012 at 8:30 pm

    “Just think if you had voted for Gore instead we would have missed out on the Iraq war, the afghan war, the global financial crisis and Osam Bin Laden would have been caught and executed within a couple of years. That Al Gore is just plain evil and would have deprived us of all that.”

    Ya think?

    I will address but just one related to the conjecture.

    If you want to understand some of the items that moved things. This was a significant one that directly leads to some of today’s precipitation exactly from such.

    Just sayin,,,,,,,, equity, ultimately free money, played a big role.

    Think about it…..

    Here,,,,, I will search it for you for convenience.

    http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_nf=3&cp=13&gs_id=8m&xhr=t&q=community+reinvestment+act&pf=p&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&oq=community+rei&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=e6d56f809fbd5741&bpcl=35277026&biw=1024&bih=64

  18. smarterthanu says:

    Every time you unfairly criticize Al Gore, as you’re doing now, you look even more foolish. Try to stick the facts on climate change. You research paper been rejected yet, Anthony?

  19. ferd berple says:

    LazyTeenager says:
    October 13, 2012 at 8:30 pm
    Just think if you had voted for Gore instead
    =============
    You come to a fork in the road. You decide to turn right and something bad happens. Who is to say something worse would not have happened if you turned left?

    The government is borrowing money like their is no tomorrow, which will all need to be repaid with interest by today’s teenagers. They are being sold into slavery in the form of indentured servitude, by the very government that is sworn to protect them.

    The argument is that slavery tomorrow is better than unemployment today. Makes sense in that the unemployed are voters, while tomorrow’s slaves do not yet have the right to vote. Thus a politician wishing to remain in office has only one way to turn. If you don’t know how to create jobs, then the only alternative is to buy them.

  20. u.k.(us) says:

    LazyTeenager says:

    October 13, 2012 at 8:30 pm
    ===========
    It is not pretty, but if you don’t project your power, now and again, there are those that will make the fatal mistake of underestimating its reach.
    We can reduce any city, anywhere, to smoking rubble with a click on a keyboard.
    Drones will have to work for now.
    It is hard to fight a “nice” war, they drag on forever.

  21. F. Ross says:

    LazyTeenager says:
    October 13, 2012 at 8:30 pm
    “…
    Just think if you had voted for Gore instead we would have missed out on the Iraq war, the afghan war, the global financial crisis and Osam Bin Laden would have been caught and executed within a couple of years. That Al Gore is just plain evil and would have deprived us of all that.
    …”

    So now you are psychic and can SEE actual alternate paths of history?

  22. Steve C says:

    OssQss says “equity, ultimately free money, played a big role”

    True. There’s a nice blog post from Dominic Frisby in the Independent, here, on that theme. Having lived through the year he mentions, I can confirm the figures he quotes.

  23. Steve C says:

    Sigh. Too early in the morning. Still, the link works.

  24. Andrew30 says:

    Anthony;

    Re” 0U812 says: October 13, 2012 at 7:46 pm”
    I am very surprised that 0U812 comment (indicated above) appears on your blog, bit disappointed also.

    REPLY:
    as am I, I spent the night watching my kids in a parade and have been away, deleted now and troll binned the handle – Anthony

  25. “smarterthanu says:
    October 13, 2012 at 9:13 pm
    Every time you unfairly criticize Al Gore, as you’re doing now, you look even more foolish.”

    Fascinating how inconveniently these people forget the lying, scheming and dishonesty that Al Gore was involved with. The major number of his acts of dishonesty was his “An Inconvenient Truth” which has now been demonstrated to being a complete sham, to such a degree that a judge noted recognisable errors.
    By as usual with lefties, let’s forget those minor issues shall we so they can concentrate on their inane and irrelevant attacks on people on the other side of the political spectrum.

    Here are some example of that not so honest Gore -
    ************************
    “Al Gore’s ‘nine Inconvenient Untruths’
    Al Gore’s environmental documentary An Inconvenient Truth contains nine key scientific errors, a High Court judge ruled yesterday.

    The judge declined to ban the Academy Award-winning film from British schools, but ruled that it can only be shown with guidance notes to prevent political indoctrination.

    In the documentary, directed by Davis Guggenheim, the former US vice president and environmental activist calls on people to fight global warming because “humanity is sitting on a ticking time bomb”.

    But Judge Michael Burton ruled yesterday that errors had arisen “in the context of alarmism and exaggeration” in order to support Mr Gore’s thesis on global warming.”
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/3310137/Al-Gores-nine-Inconvenient-Untruths.html

    **********************
    “Year of the Rat
    Regnery Publishing, 01/09/2000 – 314 pages
    Exposes the corruption of President Clinton and Vice-President Al Gore, who covered up germ warfare activities, failed to halt Russian military sales to China, and overlooked Chinese criminal activity in return for campaign funds.”

    And these are but a few, some more -
    ****************************
    “During his CNN interview, Mr. Gore went through his usual parade of extreme weather factoids, technological wonkery and green stimulus fantasies, while spouting blatant untruths. Asked about the relative contribution of humans to atmospheric CO2 emissions, he claimed that they put up “the majority” (in fact, they are estimated to contribute about one-twentieth). Interestingly, though, Mr. Gore didn’t use one of the staples of his climate vaudeville act: that “deniers” are like those who believe that the moon landing was faked. Perhaps even he lacked the gall to bring up conspiracy theories when the evidence of a genuine conspiracy is so obvious.

    Mr. Gore and his cohorts have consistently smeared climate realists and policy skeptics as “deniers,” paranoiacs or corporate shills. “Denier” invokes Holocaust denial. Paranoia is linked to those conspiracy theorists who claim that Neil Armstrong’s lunar landscape was really a movie backlot. The corporate shill angle is usually based on “exposing” some skeptical individual’s or organization’s link to Big Oil, which is in fact irrelevant unless you judge science on the basis of funding rather than objectivity. Oil companies in fact devote far more money to supporting climate hysteria.”
    http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=2faa01ee-7456-41e7-a81a-376d2d363619

  26. Lazy Teen is buzzing on this one…I think we hit a nerve.
    Keep up the good work.

  27. LazyTeenager says
    So can I safely assume you voted for Bush instead of Gore?

    Neither. i’m not an American.

    As far as I am concerned this is about criminal activities. It’s only a political issue, because politicians on the Left indulged in an orgy of croney capitalism (more correctly croney socialism).

  28. daveR says:

    Not just Western-world flailing. There’s a useful commentary – not too euro-centric – at http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/. As ever, in a ‘crisis’, money bleeds towards the self-appointed ‘vital’ organs…

  29. TomB says:

    While the facts of this piece are of great interest. The “hit piece” writing style negates its point. Write this in a stone cold, matter of fact manner and I think it works better. In the light of such obvious betrayal of moral core principals, such sensationalist writing is unnecessary. Besides, by painting the CAGW issue as a right/left divide issue, we lose the other half of people that could finally kill this hoax. Does anyone even begin to think that this pilfering of the public purse to pursue these green dreams and hobgoblins could have gone on without “bipartisan” support? This is not an expose, it’s a tirade.

  30. Garethman says:

    Was it ever thus? Tony Blair made a killing after leaving office, partly due his connections as Middle east peace envoy, bit of a joke considering he helped Bush in declaring illegal and baseless wars in that region. Speaking of which the Bush family fortunes were founded on support for the German Nazi party in the 30s, Gore is not unusual , at the end of the day he is an all American boy and that means adherence to the all American dream of making fortunes regardless of ethics. Our own Conservative party in the UK are rather more upfront. Most of the government went to extremely expensive public schools and still happily increase their fortunes through contacts and opportunities resulting from high office. I have not even discussed Halliburton. So Gore may be unpopular with readers of WUWT due to his cynical approach to climate change, but make no mistake, he is feeding out of the same trough as most politicians and is no different.

  31. TomB says:

    MikeN says:
    October 13, 2012 at 7:48 pm

    I don’t think the initial 2 million number is accurate. Al Gore at that point had a long career as a well compensated Senator plus 8 years as vice-president. On top of that, his family owns Occidental Petroleum, he has a mining operation on his land in Carthage. It is likely that he was worth over ten million at a minimum.

    What an odd defense! First, the initial figure given is derived from publicly available records and thus – as far as we know – accurate. And it seems puzzling to me to defend Al Gore by claiming that “he was a 1%’er before he became a 0.5%’er.”

  32. Mike McMillan says:

    LazyTeenager says: October 13, 2012 at 8:30 pm
    Philip Bradley on October 13, 2012 at 7:10 pm
    With a republican president, I expect to see the SEC and DoJ go after Gore and his ilk. The schadefruede will be delightful.
    ———–
    So can I safely assume you voted for Bush instead of Gore? In that case the whole world should express its eternal gratitude to you and your deep wisdom and political insight. Just think if you had voted for Gore instead we would have missed out on the Iraq war, the afghan war, the global financial crisis and Osam Bin Laden would have been caught and executed within a couple of years. That Al Gore is just plain evil and would have deprived us of all that.

    LT, you’re being too modest. With an Al Gore administration, 911 would never have happened, right?

    I do miss Saddam Hussein, though. At least we knew where we stood.

    As far as SEC and DoJ, unless Romney appoints Mark Levin or Michele Bachmann Attorney General, we’re not going to see much attitude adjustment in D.C.

  33. Brian H says:

    AFAIK, Gore netted $600 million when he sold off his (free) CCX holdings prior to its collapse. If he’s down to $100 million now, then he’s been following way too much of his own advice.

  34. Tony Mach says:

    I am shocked to find out that an politician makes so much money after leaving office!

    Surely it is not a general problem of making politics in a capitalistic system, but rather it is limited to some green liberal making politics in the interest of his pork barrel cronies, something the other party would never do.

    So if the people of the United States would just vote in somebody from the other party the next time, if they would just vote in the right person, then this will all stop and everything will be just fine.

  35. DirkH says:

    LazyTeenager says:
    October 13, 2012 at 8:30 pm
    “Just think if you had voted for Gore instead we would have missed out on the Iraq war, the afghan war, the global financial crisis and Osam Bin Laden would have been caught and executed within a couple of years.”

    Playing the Blame Bush card.

  36. Noelene says:

    Brian H
    http://www.forbes.com/2010/12/22/chicago-climate-club-carbon-barack-obama-opinions-contributors-larry-bell.html
    CCX shut down its operations in November. This occurred after an avalanche of its investors bailed following a hurricane of ill winds for cap-and-trade that swept away Democrat control of the U.S. House of Representatives. By that time Sandor had already pocketed an estimated $98.5
    million for his 16.5% CCX ownership. Just how much Al Gore’s GIM and Goldman’s GSAM ended up with no one is saying. But it was probably enough to pay for a nice private party.

  37. Steve B says:

    LazyTeenager says:
    October 13, 2012 at 8:30 pm

    It wouldn’t matter whether Bush, Gore or anybody else was elected in 2000. Many if not most politicians from USA, Australia, Europe are mostly left wing and follow the fascist business model. This model is one where politicians and big business work hand in hand to make money for each other. This model destroys small business and independant operators. Maybe with Gore in charge 911 may not have happened but something else would have. The GFC would have happened anyway since the seeds for the GFC were sown in the Clinton years.

  38. CodeTech says:

    Say what you like, but 9/11 had absolutely nothing to do with who was President at the time. 9/11 was primarily retaliation for Clinton’s actions, when he killed Bin Laden’s son during an ill advised attempt on Bin Laden. At the time we all figured it was nothing but a distraction from his legal woes. That was the seed, planted.

    If you ACTUALLY believe that any President would ignore credible situation briefings, thus making 9/11 possible, then you know nothing of US government. NO President would ignore a credible warning, and none of the daily briefings had anything specific enough to justify the actions it would have taken to prevent 9/11.

    Again, like it or not, after 9/11, taking out the Taliban was the right thing to do, and likely would have been done by ANY President. The details might have changed, personally I think the traditional Democratic mishandling of anything military would have made things worse, but the Taliban had to be dealt with… militarily, Not with a strongly worded email to the UN.

    And dealing with Saddam was on Clinton’s table, too. It was more inevitable than most people seem to think. Maybe a Gore presidency would have handled the PR better. Maybe not. But Iraq was not “illegal” and was one of the most successful military campaigns in history, with incalculable benefits to the region.

    I’m truly saddened that so many people have bought into the “illegal war” meme, and actually seem to believe that President Bush did anything other than bungle the PR surrounding both military actions. Both were properly sanctioned and within all appropriate legal requirements.

    I shudder to think what a Gore presidency would have been like, but I do know for a certainty that Gore could not, and would not, have somehow magically prevented 9/11, which was targeted directly at Clinton and the USA, not the current President.

  39. john says:

    @OssQss (and anyone else),

    http://bjdurk.newsvine.com/_news/2010/02/23/3941508-who-are-these-guys-cape-wind-emi-upc-first-wind-ivpc

    Here is a case of a governor who is a bundler for Obama that appointed wind executive(s) to certain advisory roles.

    http://bjdurk.newsvine.com/_news/2012/04/01/10888055-massachusetts-green-bubble-alert-first-wind

  40. Apart from it all, it would be a pleasant change to see someone in the White House who did not have to ask his wife if he can take a pee. Maybe someone with some ability and intelligence besides being a socialist crony and Marxist hypocrite. Now that would indeed be a pleasant change. They would probably even encourage the bureaucrats to try and tell the truth instead of outwardly lying.

    That would be a pleasant change as well.

  41. (sigh) I don’t know why 9/11/2001 popped up on the thread. But, since it has, I’d like to review a little history.

    It is instructive to read what Osama bin Laden said in a 1997 interview with CNN “reporter” Peter Arnett.

    “BIN LADIN: We declared jihad against the US government…..”. THIS IS IN THE WORDS OF OSAMA BIN LADEN. Curiously, nobody remembers that the so called “war against terror” was declared against us. It started no later than Bubba Clinton’s second administration. (My personal thoughts are that it started under Johnson when a heroic Palestinian Freedom Fighter brought justice to the evil Bobby Kennedy. Sarc!!!!) Bubba had three chances to eliminate Osama. Three times, he did NOTHING.
    http://anusha.com/osamaint.htm

    Reading the transcript further, you will find reasons that Osama bin Laden KNEW that he/they would win against these United States

    “BIN LADIN: in Somalia … After a little resistance, The Americans ran away…. successive defeats in Vietnam, Beirut, Aden, and Somalia………..”

    The failure Viet Nam. Eisenhower had less than 1K troops in Viet Nam; Kennedy increased that to 30K and Johnson to 500K. One part of Nixon’s platform was to get out of Viet Nam. He did. Do you suppose THAT’S why Liberals hate him so much? It was a Democrat war, started under Kennedy and lost under Johnson, with the withdrawal under Nixon.

    The failure in Beirut. The United Nations and President Reagan sent the Marines into Beirut in 1982. There was a civil war raging and a UN multi-national force (including French, Italian and British troops) went to stop the bloodshed. Our reward was, of course: the bombing of the US embassy (April 18, 1983) and the bombing of the Marine barracks (October 23, 1983). As I recall at the time, the Democrats in Congress said that if Reagan brought justice to the killers, they would impeach him. At any rate, we did NOTHING.

    The failure in Aden. A hotel in Aden was being used as a way station for troops going to Mogadishu. “On 29 December 1992, Al Qaeda …..first known terrorist attack….bombing the Gold Mohur Hotel”. Bubba Clinton did NOTHING.

    The failure in Somalia. “United Nations-sanctioned …. protected environment for…. humanitarian operations” The United Nations and George HW Bush on 4 December 1992 had sent troops to save Muslim lives. Later, the troops asked Bubba Clinton for increased fire power to defend themselves. The Clinton administration refused as “it would send the wrong message”. (Déjà vu all over again re the current controversy on our Ambassador in Libya.) This, of course, led to “Black Hawk Down”, October 3 and 4, 1993. “18 U.S. soldiers were killed….. 73 were wounded”. On October 6, 1993, Bubba cut and ran and did NOTHING.

    “(CNN) REPORTER (Peter Arnett): “Let’s go to the bombings of United States troops in Riyadh and Dhahran. “ ”

    Riyadh: 13 November, 1995. “U.S. training facility….(car bomb)… killed six people….President Clinton said that efforts were under way to find who was responsible.” Bubba did NOTHING.

    Dahran: June 25, 1996 “Khobar Towers bombing….. 19 U.S. servicemen…..were killed…” and Bubba did NOTHING.

    BIN LADIN: “Mentioning the name of Clinton…….. provokes disgust and revulsion.”
    Exactly.

    To those, I would add:
    “February 26, 1993, Ramzi Yousef and a Jordanian friend, Eyad Ismoil, ….World Trade Center….The bomb opened a 30-m (98 ft) wide hole through four sublevels of concrete.” And Bubba treated it as a criminal matter, not an act of war.

    “…(US) Embassy bombings… August 7, 1998 …..in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya.” On 20 August, 1998, Bubba DID fire off some 75 cruise missiles at targets in Afghanistan and Sudan. To quote Osama bin Laden: “….jokingly told militants at the al-Jihad merger that only a few camels and chickens had died”. George W. Bush referred to the event as “Shooting a few camels in the ass”. Well, GW IS from Texas!

    Bombing of the USS Cole, October 2000. Bubba did NOTHING.

    And the “Great Mother” of them all: When Iranian Jihadists took the US embassy in Tehran, the Ayatollah assessed Poor Jimmy Carter as a stupid, feckless weakling. The Ayatollah then took Poor Jimmy by the scruff of the neck and rubbed his nose in the doggy poo.

    After a while, you begin to see a pattern. There was a book out named “ALL I REALLY NEED TO KNOW I LEARNED IN KINDERGARTEN”. One of the things a person should have learned is: “Appeasing bullies will just make your life worse”.

    The best example of this on the world stage was Neville Chamberlin.
    “On September 30, 1938, British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain returned from.. Munich …having agreed to the so-called Munich Pact …with Adolf Hitler……(Neville) got off the plane at Heathrow Airport waving a piece of paper….(the) text of the pact……later that day…. (he) made a short remark… “symbolic of the desire ….never to go to war ….again. My good friends, for the second time in our history, a British Prime Minister has returned from Germany bringing peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time… Go home and get a nice quiet sleep.””

    “with honour….peace for our time” The course to WWII was set. And there was NO honour.

    To postulate that a Gore presidency would have somehow prevented 9/11 is strong evidence that the individual has not learned any history.

    “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it”
    George Santayana, The Life of Reason or The Phases of Human Progress: Reason in Common Sense

    Regards,
    Steamboat Jack (Jon Jewett’s evil twin.)

  42. Chuck Nolan says:

    Tony Mach says:
    October 14, 2012 at 2:55 am
    I am shocked to find out that an politician makes so much money after leaving office!

    Surely it is not a general problem of making politics in a capitalistic system, but rather it is limited to some green liberal making politics in the interest of his pork barrel cronies, something the other party would never do.

    So if the people of the United States would just vote in somebody from the other party the next time, if they would just vote in the right person, then this will all stop and everything will be just fine.
    ———————————–
    Tony,
    Which other party. You don’t seem to understand US politics. Both the democrats and republicans support a crony/capitalist system. (some on defense and some on windmills) Some people don’t recognize this because they have a deep political belief that their party is good and any other group which disagrees with them is evil.
    Both Dems and Reps are weasels and do little except protect their position and wealth. We need to dump Obama and avoid Romney. The best fix is Governor Gary Johnson. The R’s and D’s control the presidential debate invitations by enforcing 15% polling threshold then the R’s and D’s leave Johnson off the poll.
    Johnson has not told one lie or stretch of the truth while campaigning. He would not allow the congress to sidestep an issues or dilute a bill with amendments.
    Governor Johnson vetoed almost 100 bills per year in New Mexico.
    Johnson is the only one of the three who isn’t looking to bomb Iran.
    The only one willing to stop foreign aide.
    The only one who would not have allowed our ambassador and staff to stay in the worlds ‘hell holes’ of ruthless murderers. Having people in the Middle East just provides targets for our sworn enemies. We have ambassadors to work with other countries to protect our interests around the world. When the ME arrives in the 21st century their leaders can visit Washington if they find a need to ‘deplomasize’ with we the “Evil Satan”
    http://www.garyjohnson2012.com
    Before you repeat the mime “he can’t win” or “don’t waste your vote” take the time to hear what he has to say. It will change to “we need to vote this guy in office” and “vote your conscience”
    cn

  43. Martha Stewart goes to the grey bar hotel for a $5 large inside stock tip. Congress writes their OWN ethics rules and are all exempt from insider trading laws. Nancy Pelosi made $70 large in one IPO and that was just a crony capitalism “wise” investment. Wall Street can bribe all 435 Represenatives and all 100 Senators, AT NO COST BEYOND A PHONE CALL. The ruling two party crime syndicate has an extensive local farm system to promote the most effective and easily corruptable to “serve” in DC. Monopoly money rules reality.

  44. Garethman says:

    “Maybe someone with some ability and intelligence besides being a socialist crony and Marxist hypocrite”.

    Anyone who genuinely thinks Obama is a Marxist is truly displaying a profound lack of understanding of political systems. The rest of the Western world sees Obama as a classic one nation Conservative, and Mitt Romney somewhat to the right of him. Both of whom have made millions, as do most politicians. Hopefuly this site will not mutate from a science questioning established theories to a cheer leader for the right wing factions during this election period.

  45. D Böehm says:

    Garethman,

    If you really believe that Obama is a right wing politician, the only explanation is that you live in an alternate universe. Obama is a Communist, just like his father and everyone who mentored him.

  46. geran says:

    It is fairly common in cults that the cult leaders make off with the loot.

  47. Jimbo says:

    I think you guys are being too hard on old Al. He’s just trying to get by and reduce his co2 output.
    / END SARC

    Fire missiles >>>>
    June 10, 2010

    February 27, 2007
    Gore’s mansion, [20-room, eight-bathroom] located in the posh Belle Meade area of Nashville, consumes more electricity every month than the average American household uses in an entire year, according to the Nashville Electric Service (NES).
    http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/NussbaumOnDesign/archives/2007/02/gores_carbon_fo.html

    When Gore realized that he needed to reduce his carbon footprint as well as giving him more living space he did the following.

    Al Gore’s New $8.875 Million Montecito Villa
    Al and Tipper Gore have picked up a $8.875M luxury getaway in Montecito, CA; a swanky zip code that has attracted big name residents like Oprah Winfrey, Steve Martin, and Kirk Douglas. Records show that the approximately 6,500 sq. foot home boasts 6 bedrooms, 9 bathrooms, a large pool house, 6 fireplaces, wood framed french doors, and carved stone detailing throughout.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/17/photos-al-goree-new-8875_n_579286.html#s91230

    It’s good to know that Old Al has always loathed Big Oil despite the Gore family getting rich on Occidental Petroleum.

    Gore’s Big Oil Connection: An ‘Occident’ of Birth?
    Some Gore-bashers are more concerned about the fact that the vice president’s “reinventing government” program had helped Occidental in 1997 become the beneficiary of the largest-ever American privatization of an oilfield, when it purchased 78 percent of the Elk Hills oilfield near Bakersfield, Calif.
    http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,55826,00.html

    What’s a second home, 6 fireplaces, big oil money and helping big oil between friends?

  48. David Ball says:

    Garethman says:
    October 14, 2012 at 8:53 am
    I do not know ANYONE who sees Obama as a “classic one nation conservative”. I live in “the rest of the western world”. Substantiate, please.

    “Hopefuly (sic) this site will not mutate from a science questioning established theories to a cheer leader for the right wing factions during this election period.”

    I cannot begin to understand this statement, as Obama has surrounded himself (Chu, Holdren, etc.) with people that are trying to use climate as a political weapon for social control and taxation. Your posts are either uninformed or attempts to obfuscate issues that are clear for all to see.

  49. Garethman says:

    How does the idea that posters really believe Obama is a Communist reflect on their scientific views and the views of this site? If someone truly believed Obama was a Marxist or communist I would be very suspicious of any other beliefs they held. Perhaps D Böehm can show the characteristics of Obama which make him think he is a communist? Maybe Obama has plans to collectivise the farms of the mid west ? Perhaps Obama is planning a dictatorship ? possibly planning a state ownership of the means of productions by the masses ? In reality he subscribes to the same views as our Conservative party, though in an American sense, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19577434
    The trouble with flinging these labels around without the faintest idea of what they mean is you end up looking foolish, as did this plonker who used the same tactic. http://www.towleroad.com/2012/10/woman-calls-obama-a-communist-video.html
    By the way universal healthcare is not a characteristic of a communist state, in fact it is the opposite, communist governments rarely have such social programmes due to having poor economies or a lack of commitment to their populations. China is a good example. So before posting opinions on climate or politics, at least do your homework :) Calling Obama a communist is like calling Romney a Fascist, both views are fundimentally mistaken and reflect badly on the validity of the posters on this site.

  50. Garethman says:

    David Ball says:
    October 14, 2012 at 9:46 am
    Garethman says:
    October 14, 2012 at 8:53 am
    I do not know ANYONE who sees Obama as a “classic one nation conservative”. I live in “the rest of the western world”. Substantiate, please.

    “Hopefuly (sic) this site will not mutate from a science questioning established theories to a cheer leader for the right wing factions during this election period.”

    I cannot begin to understand this statement,(sic) as Obama has surrounded himself (Chu, Holdren, etc.) with people that are trying to use climate as a political weapon for social control and taxation. Your posts are either uninformed or attempts to obfuscate issues that are clear for all to see.

    David, see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19577434 also it’s worth reading http://toryreformgroup.tumblr.com/post/32867558309/is-obama-a-one-nation-tory-everyone-else-seems-to-be If you are going to use this site to criticise traditional conservative Presidents, maybe the same attention should be given to the follies of those to the right of Obama? Otherwise the site becomes tarnished with the idea that its philosophies are informed not by science, but by right wing politics.
    Taxation is a sensitive subject, some voters hate it and prefer the anarchy of no government or taxes, while there are those who will put up with some tax, as long as it for the causes they embrace, e.g. the military or universal health. But taxes have to be raised, if they are not raised from taxing carbon or whatever they are likely to be raised elsewhere. If you want to have the ability to wage wars or commission universal healthcare you need the funds, if you really hate all taxes you may appreciate the lifestyles enjoyed in Somalia or Liberia and other failed states. With reference to Al Gore; personally I don’t think he would have made a good President, but then again Bush was hardly outstanding. But as I mentioned, Gore has behaved in the traditional US way for most politicians, make money while you can and don’t worry too much about the ethics. By the way, if you think my posts are uninformed, what do you think of the views of someone who believes Obama to be a communist eh?

  51. Garethman says:

    Steve B says: Many if not most politicians from USA, Australia, Europe are mostly left wing and follow the fascist business model.

    Sorry Steve, but this is breathtakingly bonkers and wrong on so many levels. How on earth do left wing politicians follow an extreme right wing or a Fascist business model? What is a Fascist business model, do you have any references for this amazing statement?

  52. Jimbo says:

    Al Gore has such faith in green investments that his investment outfit is now abandoning green investments. Is Al Gore really green?

    “Al Gore bails from green energy investment”
    http://www.wnd.com/2012/09/al-gore-bails-from-green-energy-investment/

    SEC records for Generation Investment Management LLP
    http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1375534/000117266112000799/generation2q12.txt

  53. Jon Salmi says:

    Has someone researched how much green stimulus money has found its way directly or indirectly into Al Gore’s pockets?

  54. D Böehm says:

    Garethman,

    Obama was asked why he does not favor lower tax rates, since every time tax rates are lowered, federal revenue increases. Obama’s answer: it is a matter of “fairness”. Confiscate from the ‘rich’ and give it to the ‘poor’.

    That is essentially, “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need”. The basic Communist doctrine. Sorry you can’t see it.

  55. Garethman says:

    Thank you Mr Böehm. Interesting point, however that information is however still your interpretation. I have supplied you with references which illustrate why your position is fundamentally flawed. Perhaps you could do the same? Communism like capitalism is much more complex than ensuring those who earn more shoulder more of the tax burden than the poor. Das Kapital is a bit of a heavy read, but if you are interested these two sites may help. http://civilliberty.about.com/od/libertarianpolitics/f/Is-Barack-Obama-a-Socialist.htm or more theoretically http://www.world-wide-democracy.net/valach/fundamentals-of-communism.html. The trouble with political theory is it is used to insult without really understanding the detail, calling Romney a fascist or Obama a Communist does nothing for informed political debate because both concepts have no basis in reality. What is interesting is why a person who believes in the standard view of climate change is likely to be politically centrist or left, while dissenters ( much better term than deniers ) tend to hail from right wing capitalist origins. I suspect the reason is that the right tends to emphasise moral individuality in any action, while the left tends to focus on social action and responsibility.

  56. Reblogged this on Public Secrets and commented:
    They say they’re saving the Earth, but, really, it’s all about their bank accounts.

  57. D Böehm says:

    Garethman,

    I don’t need links that split hairs over ideology to know that if it has feathers, and waddles, and quacks, it is a duck. Obama is a Communist, plain and simple. Forcible redistribution of wealth on the basis of need is tells me all I need to know.

    But I have a question for you: who needs 30 phones?

  58. David Ball says:

    Garethman says:
    October 14, 2012 at 10:17 am
    Thank you for your response. Both links are written by Obama supporters engaged in the same clouding of the issue as you are. The BBC is also not an unbiased source, and most people, especially in the US, are not aware that the labels used (Conservative for example ) have a different meaning there than in the US. The comments on the BBC article are particularly revealing and most support my position. Do you swallow everything you read without question or research? Perhaps you have another goal in mind.

  59. Steve B says:

    Garethman says:
    October 14, 2012 at 10:23 am

    Steve B says: Many if not most politicians from USA, Australia, Europe are mostly left wing and follow the fascist business model.

    Sorry Steve, but this is breathtakingly bonkers and wrong on so many levels. How on earth do left wing politicians follow an extreme right wing or a Fascist business model? What is a Fascist business model, do you have any references for this amazing statement?
    ____________________________________________________________________________

    I don’t have the time to write up this stuff. The point you to this site.
    http://www.goldenjackass.com/main5.html

  60. Garethman says:

    Thank you Steve, essentially they say
    “Corruption in Fascist Business Model” — to instruct as to the dire effect of deeply engrained sponsored nurtured corruption as the tight relationship develops between the state and big corporations, undetected by the mainstream, destructive to the system,the corrupted systems are the big insolvent US banks, the secretive USFed central bank, the obedient regulators (SEC, CFTC, ISDA), the wrenching mortgage business with its MERS title database, the endless costly undeclared wars that result in stolen gold bullion, the vile shell game Exchange Traded Funds with important backdoor access given to the COMEX, itself a hotbed of naked shorting, and the raft of phony USEconomic data led by the GDP, CPI, and Jobs. in the midst of the unstoppable deterioration where foreign entities defend against the falling USDollar and its badly engrained corruption, the Gold haven will continue to look more attractive and eventually skyrocket”

    Er, yes of course. I’m still puzzled as to why left wing European government would follow such weird stuff. Remember, lefties do not form close alliances with big business, that’s capitalism, a different political and opposite group.

  61. Gunga Din says:

    D Böehm says:
    October 14, 2012 at 10:36 am
    Garethman,

    Obama was asked why he does not favor lower tax rates, since every time tax rates are lowered, federal revenue increases. Obama’s answer: it is a matter of “fairness”. Confiscate from the ‘rich’ and give it to the ‘poor’.

    That is essentially, “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need”. The basic Communist doctrine. Sorry you can’t see it.
    =====================================================================
    “All animals are created equal ……. but some animals are more equal than others.”
    I know. He’s only one of the players in this game but one of the few real “hockey sticks” in all this has been Al Gore’s bank account.
    (PS He’s dumped alot of his “green” investments. Really committed to “the cause”.)

  62. Sean says:

    As far as I am concerned Gore and his ilk are nothing more than crooks and modern day green carpetbaggers.

  63. Garethman says:

    D Böehm says:
    October 14, 2012 at 12:24 pm
    Garethman,

    I don’t need links that split hairs over ideology to know that if it has feathers, and waddles, and quacks, it is a duck. Obama is a Communist, plain and simple. Forcible redistribution of wealth on the basis of need is tells me all I need to know.

    But I have a question for you: who needs 30 phones?

    Garethman observes,
    Sorry mate, when the evidence of ducks is only in your fantasy it’s just quack politics. I suppose in your books everyone should pay the same tax whether they earn a Million per annum or 10,000. Otherwise there is a difference and that must be communism eh ? Al Gore is doing the same as all politicians, I bet he does not even pay tax on his millions but then again I suppose you would support that, otherwise it’s redistribution of wealth or whatever.

  64. D Böehm says:

    Garethman,

    I’ll ignore your insult and reply that there is not 100% Communism [nor 100% capitalism] anywhere, not in Russia, Cuba, or North Korea. The issue is whether a country is heading more in one direction than the other. Under Obama, the U.S. has been heading in the direction of Communism. That will be remedied next month, when the adults take charge over here.

    I agree with you about Gore, he is a self-serving opportunist. President George W. Bush was far more environmentally responsible than Al Gore. [I am not a Bush apologist. He was almost as financially irresponsible as Obama.]

    And yes, I support some sort of flat tax, with a basic tax exemption of [e.g.] the first $30,000 of earnings. No loopholes, or at least very few, such as a mortgage deduction and medical expense deduction.

    Finally, I support the elimination of the Department of Energy [which has not produced one barrel of oil in 30+ years], the elimination of the Department of Education [a total failure], the elimination of the Department of Commerce [States can handle commerce], the elimination of the Department of Labor [ditto], the elimination of the Department of Homeland Security [staffed with criminals from top to bottom], and the elimination of the EPA and GISS — for starters.

    Those make-work bureaucracies always grow, and they soon become interested only in their primary, unstated mission: their own continued expansion and political power. To hell with them. We would do perfectly fine without them, and the immense drain on our financial resources would be plugged.

  65. richardscourtney says:

    Garethman and D Böehm:

    I am taking the (probably stupid) risk of inserting a comment into your debate in the (probably forlorn) hope of resolving your conflict.

    In the present day the greatest risk is not from the right or from left but is from totalitarians of every political colour. This is why politicians of both right and left extremes are pushing AGW: the AGW-scare is a useful tool to advance the totalitarianism which they desire.

    Unjustifiable bureaucracies are one of the methods for operating totalitarianism. At the extreme left are communists and at the extreme right are fascists who are all totalitarians who operate systems where those in control take from everybody else. The bureaucracies do the taking on behalf of those who run the system.

    Totalitarians kill people. They kill lots of people. When we are considering the AGW-scare then arguing about right and left is ‘taking your eye off the ball’: people of good conscience need to oppose totalitarianism and only avoiding it from one end of the political spectrum gives totalitarians at the other end a free-run to take over.

    Richard

  66. We Told You So says:

    Gareth has the problem all communists have: his communism doesn’t work. And everyone finds out.

  67. Greg Cavanagh says:

    Little Chris Horner,
    sat in his corner,
    stirring his pot of stew.
    Along came Al Gore,
    sat down beside him,
    So Chris leant over and squashed him.

    (Any semblance to Little Miss Tuffet is purely incidental, as is the lack of rhyme :)

  68. CodeTech says:

    Steamboat Jack, thanks for a far more expansive post than mine… hopefully someone learned something.

    More than 10 years out, and I’m in absolute amazement at just how badly 9/11 has been misrepresented and used politically. I have no tolerance for deliberate misinformation, like the “loose change” morons, and the thought that it had anything to do with Bush is particularly annoying. But I have to admit, any implication that it wouldn’t have happened if Gore was President pops my cork.

    I knew people that worked in those buildings. I lost a childhood friend that day. I knew several people involved with the initial search and cleanup. I have NO tolerance for ANYONE who wants to minimize it or make it political (without knowing the facts), or who thinks there is humor or cheap political points to be found there.

    It was a cowardly, unannounced sneak attack during peacetime, just like December 7, 1941. I don’t hear a lot of people mocking the US or President Roosevelt for that day. We all know what happened after Pearl Harbor, and the response after 9/11 was EXTREMELY measured and focused.

    Gore was somewhat of a failure as VP… and his subsequent opportunism and ridiculous left-targeted posturing SHOULD show people that the world dodged a bullet on November 7, 2000.

  69. bushbunny says:

    Sean on 14 October – I totally agree! CodeTech my sympathies. As far as 9/11 is concerned it was a tragic affair, I was at Uni at the time, and was surprised meeting my lecturer who told me that lectures were cancelled because of it. A professor of politics mentioned then it was not Saddam Hussein, he wasn’t that stupid, but was Bin Laden. I remember sitting watching the TV live and crying. We knew this would not go well and it would threaten world peace (if it is ever present?) and would be revenged. Unlike pearl harbor it was a total surprise, the Brits let the Americans know the Japanese fleet was on its way. But I don’t blame it on the American politicians not withstanding one query, why stand down NORAD and the fighters? The excuse was they could not get there in time? There was plenty of time, and jet fighters are very fast. Air traffic control was worried something was amiss, and communications went astray. Rather than a conspiracy I feel incompetence was the deciding factor. Of course Mike’s 9/11 movie didn’t help and colored people’s opinions.

  70. Garethman says:

    We Told You So says:
    October 14, 2012 at 4:16 pm
    Gareth has the problem all communists have: his communism doesn’t work. And everyone finds out.

    Garethman ( who is honest enough not to use aliases) During this debate I have flagged up numerous references showing that the idea of Obama as a communist is complete nonsense. Those who claim he is have shown nothing but insults. If this is how they would debate climate science I see why they are held in contempt. By the way I am not a communist and never have been, I regard it as a fundamentally flawed system, thats because I understand it, I work closely with elected politicians on both the right and left, I don’t just fling the word around as an insult. The thing that concerns me personally is how many misguided people who believe that Romney is a Fascist or Obama is a Communist will vote on the basis of those flawed ideas. It a sign that democracy is breaking down when large sections of the population vote on the basis of fantasy instead of reality. I leave you with a quote:
    “It is reported that Obama cringed in horror at the absurd notion that he is a wait-in-the wings Marxist. But tossing the damaging political label at him is more than just a last desperate gasp effort by the GOP attack hounds to get an edge on Obama. It taps into the deeply held belief–and even fear–that Obama can and will actually mug the rich and by extension those who fantasize about being rich. The question, “Is Obama a Socialist” is silly and revolting. Yet, to even ask it creates just enough doubt. And that suits the GOP’

  71. Garethman says:

    Thanks Richard for your insightful post.

  72. Garethman says:

    D Böehm says:
    October 14, 2012 at 3:04 pm
    Garethman,

    I’ll ignore your insult and reply that there is not 100% Communism [nor 100% capitalism] anywhere, not in Russia, Cuba, or North Korea. The issue is whether a country is heading more in one direction than the other. Under Obama, the U.S. has been heading in the direction of Communism. That will be remedied next month, when the adults take charge over here.

    I agree with you about Gore, he is a self-serving opportunist. President George W. Bush was far more environmentally responsible than Al Gore. [I am not a Bush apologist. He was almost as financially irresponsible as Obama.]

    And yes, I support some sort of flat tax, with a basic tax exemption of [e.g.] the first $30,000 of earnings. No loopholes, or at least very few, such as a mortgage deduction and medical expense deduction.

    Finally, I support the elimination of the Department of Energy [which has not produced one barrel of oil in 30+ years], the elimination of the Department of Education [a total failure], the elimination of the Department of Commerce [States can handle commerce], the elimination of the Department of Labor [ditto], the elimination of the Department of Homeland Security [staffed with criminals from top to bottom], and the elimination of the EPA and GISS — for starters.

    Those make-work bureaucracies always grow, and they soon become interested only in their primary, unstated mission: their own continued expansion and political power. To hell with them. We would do perfectly fine without them, and the immense drain on our financial resources would be plugged.

    Garethman says:

    You make some interesting points, some I would agree with, some not. But my point is that those issues do not make one side a fascist or the other side a communist. You still live in a democracy and have a right to express and campaign for those ideas. As Richard has pointed out, under totalitarian regimes from the left or right that is not allowed. As a result calling Obama a communist is just plain wrong from an objective perspective and undermines the horrendous experiences of those subject to the real thing. By the way I don’t recall insulting you any worse than I have been insulted in this debate!

  73. 21 STEPS OF GLOBAL DISSENT – or how I learned to stop worrying and love the fake global crisis.
    1. There have been dissidents since history was recorded. Many have written unhappy words.
    2. Dissidents invent one topic after another to express unhappiness. As the world communication system goes faster and broader, the fake issues become more horrendous.
    3. The United Nations was formed partly to control dissidents.
    4. The most recent major issue, global warming, replaced nuclear power, which replaced a global cancer scare from man-made chemicals, which replaced a global cooling scare.
    5. Some smart rich people get on the bandwagon of the newest emerging issue. Some prime it, some sub-prime it.
    6. If they pick it correctly, they invest heavily in the front end, e.g. in windmill fabrication companies as people start to talk about alternative energy.
    7. As the public realises the new topic is growing, these rich smarts sell off at or near the peak of the movement, since the public is conditioned to join in ‘for the cause’ and value for money becomes a secondary consideration for individuals.
    8. Communities like the European Union join in, sometimes in covert league with the rich smarts.
    9. Countries join in and make laws supporting the thrust of the UN thinking. They spend much money buying new technology and ideas and economic models from the early smarts, or from the companies who bought from the early smarts.
    10. The equipment and its warranties fails to meet economic performance expectations. Costs rise, taxes are increased.
    11. A trading scheme is set up to resemble a market, so that those still holding an embarrassment of useless riches can unload them on the poor and gullible.
    12. The commodity price on the scheme falls and falls until markets fail. The poorer countries end up with the semi-useless hardware and responsibility.
    13. Some Governments attempt to keep prices and investor interest afloat, by making laws requiring levels of participation and outlawing some alternatives.
    14. The GDP per person of counties starts to fall because more people are performing less useful work, unless the falling GDP is offset by the emergence of a happy new industry or product.
    15. Voters lose interest in the initial alarmism and demand higher priority for the provision of other Government services.
    16. The edifice crumbles slowly, maybe not completely.
    17. Meanwhile, a band of dissidents with rich smarts is contriving the next catastrophe and starting to invest in its ‘remediation’ by planning a quick in-out on the rising price.
    18. There are likely to be cartels like jackals in the background, feasting on the free leftovers.
    19. Remote, isolated populations have led a comparatively simpler life for many decades.
    20. Dangerous creatures like snakes tend to bite when poked with a stick. If you walk away you are safer.
    21. Happiness rewards those who walk away, who continue to laugh at adversity and who continue with scepticism to deride those who sleep poorly at night.

  74. Rick says:

    “the Bush family fortunes were founded on support for the German Nazi party in the 30s, Gore is not unusual , at the end of the day he is an all American boy and that means adherence to the all American dream of making fortunes regardless of ethics.”
    You may as well quit phoning folks. We have our winner for most bigoted comment of the day and here I’m thinking of bigot in the traditional sense of the word; obstinate and misinformed.

  75. Garethman says:

    I am most grateful Rick, I could never have done without the help of you and your friends.

  76. Justa Joe says:

    Garethman says:
    …Remember, lefties do not form close alliances with big business, that’s capitalism, a different political and opposite group.
    ————————————————
    Have you ever heard of Solyndra, GE, Goldman Sachs, or Generation Investment Management LLP (GIM) just to name a very few?

    You should join up with Professor Lewandowski. You guys both excel at creating and/or buying into self serving yet inadequate definitions.

  77. Garethman says:

    Whoa! One at a time guys, I am in a tennis match against 6 players here! Joe, the debate is about whether Obama is a Communist. You will note that in supposedly communist societies alliances with big business is rare. I can’t recall Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Lenin or even the the “Great leader” Kim doing it.This bunch of miscreants were far to busy abusing their societies while their interest was not money, it was power. There will always be exceptions, no system is 100% consistent, though being on the other side of the Atlantic I’d appreciate further info on which these Communist dictators these firms teamed up with. No-one who claims Obama is a Communist has posted any reliable objective links showing any evidence, I’ve made multiple postings and references showing the idea is nonsense. Maybe Professor Lewandoski is not the only one lacking reliable references for his claims? By the way Joe who is ‘you guys’? You make me sound like some sort of organisation which I am not. I work closely with politicians of all sides, but keep my own political beliefs close to my chest. I’m a fairly average European, which I imagine in tea party terms that makes me a rampant Marxist.

  78. Justa Joe says:

    You will note that in supposedly communist societies alliances with big business is rare.

    Actually I will not note this. I see no basis to assume this. Communist countries utlimately still need to produce (crappy) goods and services. They still must have entities albeit govt controlled to one extent or another to do this, and if a business is allowed to operate you better believe that they are alligned with the party. Somebody already attempted to explain to you that no system of government is pure.

    My compatriot that called Obama a communist wasn’t literally suggesting that Obama marches around with a peaked cap with a little red star on it and modeled his administration after the old USSR. Surely you must realize this. Although he did have to fire a top lieutenant for publicly proclaiming her admiration Mao. I believe that the other poster was suggesting that Obama has a collectivist ideaology. Collectivism is a tenant of communism, no? Anyway it’s a bit of American hyperbole but nevertheless contains a kernel of truth. Maybe Euros don’t get it?

    I’d appreciate further info on which these Communist dictators these firms teamed up with. No-one who claims Obama is a Communist has posted any reliable objective links showing any evidence,

    Nobody has posted anything because it would be too tedious to point out how some policy of Obama’s is collectivist or contrary to free market economics, and then have to argue with you about it as you attempt to some sophistic defense about how Stalin never actually had an identical policy or some such rubbish. I found it humorous how you tried to suggest that govt run healthcare isn’t a socialist concept and to further suggest that govt run health care was not a feature of communist/socialist regimes. That took some real logical gymnatstics. I give you an A for effort. As far as a commie firms how about Mikoyan-Gurevich Design Bureau, or Chinese held ICBC bank?

    …keep my own political beliefs close to my chest. I’m a fairly average European, which I imagine in tea party terms that makes me a rampant Marxist.

    It’s fairly obvious which way you lean politically.

  79. David Ball says:

    Garethman is doing what in hockey is called the “double reverse head fake”. The left are clearly aware of Obama’s socialist leanings and are trying to redirect people away from this until it is too late. His reactions are typical: denying who Obama has surrounded himself with, denying that Obama’s “collectivist actions” are not socialism, denying that Obama’s background leads to this unfailing conclusion. I stopped arguing with him as soon as I saw typical leftist responses and knew that he was no longer worth the effort, as nothing I say would convince him of anything. The general public have a sense of what is going on. They’re on to the “double reverse head fake”.

  80. D Böehm says:

    Of course Obama is a Communist.

  81. Goldie says:

    Here’s some keys tests;
    1) does he delegate power or does he consolidate power in the Federal Government?
    2) is he making (Federal) Government smaller or larger?

  82. Resourceguy says:

    I do hope Tipper was well compensated with hush money.

  83. bushbunny says:

    Are there any communist countries left? Or are they now termed socialist? (Difference as I see it in socialist countries you can still vote, even if it doesn’t solve domestic problems). And are they amongst the poorest in the world?

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