Those whom the gods would destroy, they first make green

How Green Gullibility, Hyperpartisanship Are Wrecking The Climate Movement

by Walter Russell Mead The American Interest (excerpted)

One of the biggest intellectual failures of the global green movement against climate change is the persistent failure of its leaders and spokespeople to grasp the way their own advocacy fatally undermines their credibility. They blame cunning, unscrupulous and well funded enemies for disasters that their own inaccuracies, overstatements and disingenuous advocacy have brought on their movement.

Robert Murphy over at Master Resource has an excellent essay that shows how the credulous and gloating response of so many greens to the Heartland Institute affair and the faked document at its core made the green movement much less credible as a source of reliable information about climate matters.

Says Murphy,

The Heartland affair has shown not merely that some climate alarmists (namely Gleick) will stoop to outright deception, and most of his peers will close ranks to defend him in a sort of Green Wall of Silence. Perhaps more disturbing, it reveals that these people really have no idea how their opponents on the climate issue actually view the world. So when they dismiss skeptics as having no legitimate arguments, it should make outsiders take pause.

Without being a trained climate scientist, I can read the various blogs and try to parse the academic papers, but ultimately I have to rely a lot on the good faith and judgment of the scientists themselves. The Heartland affair has reassured my earlier conviction that the case for climate alarmism is far weaker than the alarmists have been telling us.

Murphy is writing here more about the green advocacy and blogging community than about the actual scientists, but this is all the more important as illustrating how advocacy has gotten so far away from science and ended by weakening the credibility of the green agenda. Read the whole thing.


The root cause of all this remains, in VM’s opinion, a truly idiotic set of policy proposals that, no matter the state of the underlying science, simply cannot and will not be implemented.

Those whom the gods would destroy, they first make green. Just ask Peter Gleick.

================================================================

Full article here

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53 Responses to Those whom the gods would destroy, they first make green

  1. Pete of Perth says:

    Our own leader Bob Brown of the Green party in Oz is waiting for a call from E.T.

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/why_hasnt_an_alien_rung_bob/

    Credibility FAIL

  2. Bloke down the pub says:

    ——————————————————————————–
    green (grn)
    n.
    1. The hue of that portion of the visible spectrum lying between yellow and blue, evoked in the human observer by radiant energy with wavelengths of approximately 490 to 570 nanometers; any of a group of colors that may vary in lightness and saturation and whose hue is that of the emerald or somewhat less yellow than that of growing grass; one of the additive or light primaries; one of the psychological primary hues.

    7. Green A supporter of a social and political movement that espouses global environmental protection, bioregionalism, social responsibilty and non-violence.

    10.
    a. Lacking sophistication or worldly experience; naive.
    b. Easily duped or deceived; gullible.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~##
    I think I know which definition fits the best.

  3. Brian H says:

    Suggested wording mod:
    “Whom the gods would destroy, they first dye green.”
    ;)
    It makes target-spotting so much easier.
    >:)

  4. Raymond Kuntz says:

    10.
    c. Not fully developed or ready for harvest; immature

  5. Jessie says:

    Anthony thanks for posting that article and links, very interesting reading.

    And Pete of Perth, we have been outed by the refs from making any comment on Bob Brown’s home ‘state’ Tasmania, Australia and map thereof.
    Though I did note that someone slipped in a youtube on the matter of Tasmanian maps some months ago ;)

  6. Patrick Plemmons says:

    When has the “green movement” ever been a credible source of information? When has any movement ever been a credible source? By definition, movements exist to advocate for a particular point of view. Look for facts elsewhere.

  7. cb says:

    No, the original still holds true.

    http://tongue-tied2.blogspot.com/2006/12/leftism-as-psychopathy-by-john-ray-m.html

    Words are just words: what I call sociopathic, this guy calls psychopathic. Same thing, different words. (Although, as an aside, cause and effect are reversed between the two.)

    Ta.

  8. Luther Wu says:

    But the cause is just, don’t you see? After all, the world must be saved, so the end justifies the means.

  9. Coach Springer says:

    This political analysis of why the green activist climate initiative is failing takes no position of questinability, weakness or invalidity of the underlying science. As a result, it comes off as a “shame it’s going down this way” type of analysis. They are correct in noting that the movement would be doomed to political failure even if the science were there. But the science is not there (certainly not yet by a long shot) and the scientists out in front converted to activism, which makes the movement a very bad thing – the worst thing if you listen and understand who they are and what they want – and it is not a shame that it is going down this way.

  10. Gary says:

    Their lust for power makes them incorrectly assume their opponents actually are as badly behaved as they are. Hubris blinds the self-critical eye.

  11. pat says:

    this is what happens when u follow the Agenda 21 blueprint. only a 1 percent drop for the Greens so far, but they would surely drop further if only the MSM would inform the public better on the CAGW and carbon dioxide trading scam:

    27 March: Australian: Matthew Franklin: Federal Labor vote near Queensland lows: Newspoll
    The latest Newspoll survey reveals that federal Labor’s primary support has dropped three percentage points to 28 per cent in the past fortnight just one point above the 26.9 per cent figure achieved in its devastating loss in Queensland…
    However, it also found the Coalition extended its commanding two-party-preferred lead over Labor to 57 per cent against 43 per cent in the fortnight when the Prime Minister successfully pushed the mining tax through the Senate. Two weeks earlier, the Coalition led Labor by 53 per cent to 47 per cent…
    If the latest Newspoll results were reflected on election day, Labor would be trounced, with its primary vote now 10 percentage points below the support it attracted in the 2010 election, in which it failed to secure a majority of seats in the House of Representatives…
    The latest Newspoll found the Greens primary vote stood at 11 per cent down one point from the March 9-11 survey.
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/federal-labor-vote-near-queensland-lows-newspoll/story-fn59niix-1226310792897

  12. Alternatively, maybe its because many Greens are just batshit crazy.

    Read this speech given by the Australian Greens leader, Bob Brown.

    Fellow Earthians,

    Never before has the Universe unfolded such a flower as our collective human intelligence, so far as we know.

    Nor has such a one-and-only brilliance in the Universe stood at the brink of extinction, so far as we know.

    We people of the Earth exist because our potential was there in the Big Bang, 13.7 billion years ago, as the Universe exploded into being.

    So far, it seems like we are the lone thinkers in this vast, expanding Universe. However, recent astronomy tells us that there are trillions of other planets circling Sunlike stars in the immensity of the Universe, millions of them friendly to life. So why has no one from elsewhere in the Cosmos contacted us?

    Surely some people-like animals have evolved elsewhere. Surely we are not, in this crowded reality of countless other similar planets, the only thinking beings to have turned up. Most unlikely! So why isn’t life out there contacting us? Why aren’t the intergalactic phones ringing?

    Here is one sobering possibility for our isolation: maybe life has often evolved to intelligence on other planets with biospheres and every time that intelligence, when it became able to alter its environment, did so with catastrophic consequences. Maybe we have had many predecessors in the Cosmos but all have brought about their own downfall.

    That’s why they are not communicating with Earth. They have extincted themselves.

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/why_hasnt_an_alien_rung_bob/

  13. Ern Matthews says:

    Give them enough rope and they will hang themselves. Another phrase from my youth that has comfort me through these trying times. The left has went all in on the old nag and she is running out of gas on the back stretch. =:D

  14. roger says:

    Bob Brown should pay for his excruciating torture of the English language [SNIP: Sorry, we are just not going there. Even a /sarc wouldn't have helped here. -REP].
    Extincted indeed!!!!!!!!!!!!

  15. The Infidel says:

    LOL bob must be in contact with the realien society. Is “extincted” even a proper word? sheese the quicker they become a non party the better, with nutjobs like that as their leader.

  16. More Soylent Green! says:

    It’s not the “green” movement, it’s the “watermelon” movement — green on the outside, red on the inside.

    You didn’t think that all those Marxists and Communists just faded away after the Soviet bloc fell did you? Nope, they live on in academia, education and government.

    BTW: The corporatists (the more accurate term is Fascists) don’t really care what the movement is, they just want to get their share. Global cooling, global warming, climate change, climate disruption, foreign oil, energy independence, decarbonization — none of these things matter to them, getting a hold of your money is all that counts.

  17. TG McCoy (Douglas DC) says:

    That speech by Mr. Brown has the aura of ganja about it….

  18. Patrick Davis says:

    Reminds me of this….

    Purest green!

  19. Olen says:

    advocacy has gotten so far away from science and ended by weakening the credibility of the green agenda.

    Had the advocacy not gotten away from science there would be no green movement and all that would be left would be good science using money well spent on research into weather and climate. Their tactics and words only demonstrate the value of their science.

  20. wws says:

    Note that there is almost no difference between Brown’s wondering why the Aliens haven’t rung and bishops of a previous generation wondering why the Angels have not descended from Heaven in all their Glory yet.

    Except that previous generations were quite a bit more honest and open about their religious faith. They didn’t apologize for it, and they didn’t try to hide what it is, either. I think that more than anything else is what makes Brown and his ilk so wretchedly nauseating.

  21. neill says:

    As Clemenza might have said to Paulie in the Godfather, ‘Extincted? Extincted!? Just be careful we don’t extinct you.’

  22. It’s déjà vu all over again: Liberals/progressives saying really stupid things that are later proven to be totally false.

    But then you have to ask yourself:

    “Self, if they have been proven so wrong so many times, why do people like Paul Erlich still have jobs? And why are people still buying the New York Times?”

    In the early 1930’s, the Communists (led by Lenin and then Stalin) had already murdered more people than the Nazis (led by Adolph Hitler) ever would. Yet, Walter Duranty wrote and the New York Times published a series of propaganda stories on the Soviet Union including the infamous passage: “Conditions are bad, but there is no famine… But…you can’t make an omelet without breaking eggs.”

    Yet, Duranty KNEW it was a lie: “in private he told Eugene Lyons and reported to the British Embassy that the population of Ukraine and Lower Volga had “decreased” by six to seven million.”

    Even Wikipedia has it. They call it the “Holodormor”.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial_of_the_Holodomor

    Progressive college students of today will find this part interesting:
    “ Stalin’s wife.., learned about the famine from Ukrainian students… They described acts of cannibalism…(she)complained to Stalin, who then ordered the OGPU to purge all the college students who had taken part in collectivization” (Purged i.e. tortured and shot.)

    Progressive government bureaucrats of today will find this part interesting:
    “(the) January 1937 census..(showed in the) Ukraine …evidence of the mortality resulting from the famine …Those collecting the data..(were)… arrested and executed”

    We are finding proof that more and more of what the greens are telling us is false: DDT is ‘bad”, the hole in the ozone is going to kill us, the spotted owl needs old growth forrest, and the current apocolypse du jour, CAGW (which will require Global Governance to save us-with THEM in charge, of course).

    In the 1930s, it was about Global Governance to create a utopia “so perfect that it would be the end of history” (i.e. there could be no further improvement). They called themselves Communists back then and, naturally, THEY would be in charge.

    Now they call themselves Green. It’s deja vu all over again.

    The questions arise: “Are the people who continue to tell us these lies just stupid? Or are they evil? And what of the people who still continue to believe them?”

    Regards,
    Steamboat Jack (Jon Jewett’s evil twin)

  23. Patrick Davis says:

    Ahh…our well informed Mr. Brown…

    “We people of the Earth exist because our potential was there in the Big Bang, 13.7 billion years ago, as the Universe exploded into being.”

    Really? Like AGW, the BB is a THEORY Bob. Do you know what that means? And you want to expunge us from this rock? Such ignorance. This is the same man who stated at the 2010 federal election that “…with a carbon tax we could have improved schools, health roads, transport…” So, Bob, clearly the carbon tax is all about raising revenue for 2013! Did you see what happened in QLD?

  24. JP says:

    I think Walter Russell Mead misses the point. AGW advocacy was nothing more than window dressing. And with tens if not hundreds of millions available through non-profits, trust funds, and taxpayers, the entire PR wing of the Alarmists evolved into a glut of hyper busy PR flacks, grandstanders, and publicity hounds. Dr Mann showed just how easy (and lucrative) it was to play the role of Cassandra. Lest people forget, he was the toast of the East Coast media establishment for quite some time. Overnight this obscure climate scientist was a celebrity. Just think how many enviros switched graduate schools after watching him on Good Morning America!

    Circa 2005-2007 a day didn’t go by without some Alarmist Doomsday study blaming some misfortune on AGW (that is, before it became Climate Change). There were so many neophyte Michael Manns are only so much bandwidth available.

  25. RobRoy says:

    If one is over fifty, say, he probably is less likely than a youngster to trust anything computer generated; let alone, doomsday, “The end is near“, crapola. When I was young, I saw people walking the streets wearing sandwich board signs prophesying doomsday. These alarmists were doing the same thing Al Gore does today. Only Gore uses Power-point instead of the sandwich board. It’s the same thing though.
    The Man-Made Global Warming scam/lie/hoax becomes evident when one looks at the narrative that spews from the alarmists: Only evil and suffering can come from a warmer Earth. Fossil fueled, Western style prosperity must stop. This is the real agenda. Saving the Earth has little to do with it. Even if all the CO2 causes warming “theory” were true(I’m sure it’s not), It still does not absolutely dictate doom.
    I say, why can’t it be? :
    “Congratulations children, The Energy sources that fuel our economies and our prosperity, give us long life and comfort, these fossil fuels will also cause our planet to warm gently, about 2C degrees over the next century. What luck!
    With the warmth and extra CO2 for plant life, millions of acres of tundra will become forests. Millions of acres of frozen steppe will become arable. Starvation will end. Prosperity will reach even the poorest people. We must keep searching for and burning oil and coal so we can improve our climate and prosper.
    Humanity will become wealthy. With this wealth we can preserve habitat for animals, protect the rain forest. We will clean the oceans and the land. Our future is bright. We are entering the age of abundance. “

    The Earth is not warming of late though. Too bad.

  26. R. Shearer says:

    Green is also associated with money and at least subliminally evil. The fact that greens are willing to lie, cheat and steal and live hypocritically is apparent to most. This is in keeping with the lust for power and other sins. Hence, there is some alignment of good vs. evil in this debate and the skeptics are on the good side.

  27. John Blake says:

    It’s not easy being gangrene.

  28. RobRoy says:

    I also see these alarmists being used as tools (“Useful Idiots”). “The Cause” is being used as a convenient avenue for the Socialist ,One-World-Government types.(SUV burners and Eugenicists are on board as well). So, I learned here that “Watermelons” is the euphemism assigned to these commies. Green on the outside, Red on the inside. It’s a good one. These guys are a real dangerous lot. The threat they pose is subjugation. Looks like they’ve hopped aboard a leaky ship though. They’ll go down with the rest of them.

  29. CW - code monkey with a wrench says:

    ‘Steamboat Jack says:
    March 26, 2012 at 7:53 am

    ..The questions arise: “Are the people who continue to tell us these lies just stupid? Or are they evil?…”‘

    Those traits are not mutually exclusive.

  30. Kelvin Vaughan says:

    Patrick Plemmons says:

    March 26, 2012 at 5:43 am

    When has the “green movement” ever been a credible source of information? When has any movement ever been a credible source? By definition, movements exist to advocate for a particular point of view. Look for facts elsewhere.

    My movements are brown!

  31. Keith Pearson, Formerly bikermailman, Anon No Longer says:

    Anthony and mods, I want to make a comment that is technically OT, but since *snips* are in this thread, maybe not. :). Feel free to not publish, as you guys are the target.

    I want to thank you for attempting to keep a degree of civility, or at least keeping a limit on things. In too many areas, both online and in meatspace, people on both sides of issues, whether climate/weather, or any other, are just utterly running away into a spiralling…I don’t know what. See the Treyvon Martin/George Zimmermann story as a single example. Too many blogs on both sides, and even MSM sites, just let the hate roll. Honest debate or expression of opinions is wonderful! But owners of sites and mods IMO are irresponsible for letting things spiral out of control. Again, I see garbage come from all sides, no Left/Right Black/White or any other group is excepted. We are, I’m afraid , that some rough times are coming to us. Cooler heads will be needed to calm things down, not throw gasoline on the fire.

    I’ll wrap my non-rant up by giving thanks to Anthony et al, and hope the readers take this to heart not just here, but everywhere else they wander. I’m as far as I can be from being a huggy-feely Leftie, but some things are (or should be) universal.

    Thank You, that is all.

  32. Jack says:

    Regarding Bob Brown, you should be aware that he started the green movement as a political force in Australia and then it spread throughout the world. Check the Dam the Franklin story.
    He is a strong advocate of One World Governmet, one planet,one vote, one value, as defined by His Gaian Greeness. He and his algal sycophants believe the earth is a living being and trying to communicate with them first of course. It is only a short time , less than 4 tipping points, before the earth speaks.
    So no doubt the extincted aliens are buried in a time capsule, somewhere in New York or on a farm in Idaho? When gaia revives them we will have a new race of Superbroccoli’s and it won’t just be your mother saying eat it , it is good for you.
    Bob, who looks cadaverous even on sunny day, will regret his lack of vege-iness yet.

  33. Pointman says:

    “They’ve accused us for years of being anti-science, paid lackeys of big oil, climate criminals, despoilers of the environment and being drones of some shadowy organised conspiracy against them. We long ago wrote off such accusations as propaganda stereotypes, designed to dehumanise and marginalise us but what you have to take on board is that in a very real sense, they’ve become victims of their own propaganda. The lies have been repeated so often that they now believe them themselves. That is now their operational worldview and their understanding of us and it’s a false one. Essentially, they went to war against and are still fighting, a phantasm figure who is a patchwork product of their own spin machine’s memes.”

    http://thepointman.wordpress.com/2012/03/16/the-climate-wars-revisited-or-no-truce-with-kings/

    Pointman

  34. Julian Flood says:

    Steamboat Jack says: March 26, 2012 at 7:53 am wrote
    quote
    Progressive college students of today will find this part interesting:
    “ Stalin’s wife.., learned about the famine from Ukrainian students… They described acts of cannibalism…(she)complained to Stalin, who then ordered the OGPU to purge all the college students who had taken part in collectivization” (Purged i.e. tortured and shot.)
    unquote

    I resent the fact that Stalin got away with it. Even if he really was strangled by Khrushchev as he lay helpless with a stroke, it wasn’t enough, he should have endured an eternity of suffering. Nothing to be done about it, of course, the yellow-eyed monster has gone beyond our justice. So then I got to thinking, what if he’d left his brain in a bottle somewhere? Hence Calling The Names, one of the short stories in my collection Lucifer Falling on Amazon (modest coff). I couldn’t include my short that was published in Analog about a strange world where tree agriculture had used up all the CO2 and the world is in immense danger of climate change….

    JF
    (Having been brought up on SF, I find it very easy to see through a lot of the hand-waving guff we’re fed by eminent scientists. I remember the Deane Drive.)

  35. ann r says:

    Quite a few of the greens I know enjoy one form or another of mind altering substances. I wonder whether that has anything to do with their general disconnect between advocacy and scientific evidence/reasoning.

  36. woodNfish says:

    “Murphy is writing here more about the green advocacy and blogging community than about the actual scientists”

    Is he Anthony? I don’t get that from reading your excerpt, and I know from my own personal investigation of so-called “climate science” that most of it is absolute crap and the rest is very poor. The junk-climate scientists have themselves to blame for either producing garbage research, or staying quiet while the credibility of their so-called “science” went down the tubes.

    Let them gnash their teeth in self-imposed ignorance while they stand in front of mirrors looking for someone to blame.

  37. Richard G says:

    Walter Russel Mead should be a regular read for everybody. Brain food for omnivores.

  38. Myrrh says:

    pat says:
    March 26, 2012 at 6:35 am
    this is what happens when u follow the Agenda 21 blueprint. only a 1 percent drop for the Greens so far, but they would surely drop further if only the MSM would inform the public better on the CAGW and carbon dioxide trading scam:

    ======================

    MSM might print the odd article or two, but they’ve been part and parcel of the scam from the beginning – some David Rockefeller quotes:

    “We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected the promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world-government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the National auto determination practiced in past centuries.”– in an address to a Trilateral Commission meeting in June of 1991

    “This present window of opportunity, during which a truly peaceful and interdependent world order might be built, will not be open for too long – We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order.” Sept. 23, 1994

    “For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure – one world, if you will.

    If that’s the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” from David Rockefeller’s autobiography ‘Memoirs’

    But I think it’s more involved than that, seem to recall that J.P.Morgan expended quite a bit of effort on acquiring print media in the beginning of the 20th century, so these could be just cabal stooges, but would have to check..

  39. Ally E. says:

    Well, the Greens wanted it hotter, or at least they seemed eager for it. Now it’s getting hotter! For them!!! Hehehe.

    See? Dreams really DO come true.

    :)

  40. RobRoy says:

    Thanks Myrrh for the David Rockefeller quotes. Dangerous man. I wonder if he’d still like his New World Order If it were run by the Occupiers of Wall Street and their ilk ,the 99%ers.The rich would be toast, and all the other courses as well. All wealthy people made into proletariat food. Yum.

  41. FrankK says:

    When I first read Bob “extincted” Brown’s speech I thought it was a leg-pull.
    I now believe Klatu (Bob) and Gort(The Greens) (from the ‘Day the Earth Stood Still’ visit in 40’s) have morphed and come to earth again to deliver their message to us Earthians. Certainly sounds the same!.

  42. “…the credulous and gloating response of so many greens to the Heartland Institute affair and the faked document at its core made the green movement much less credible as a source of reliable information about climate matters.”

    The green movement is not a reliable source of information on nearly any matter. This is because they establish a position first, and work backwards from there filtering the facts to support their conclusion.

  43. hillbilly33 says:

    Unfortunately my stomach wasn’t strong enough to read all our Earthian would-be leader’s speech delivered to rapturous applause from his gullible doe-eyed sycophants. However, I did glean this gem from amongst the dross. Coming as it does from such an outstanding climate scientist and man of integrity as Bob Brown and further backed up by his Deputy Chief Chicken Little Christine Milne, how can we not believe we’re all going to fry if we don’t change our wicked ways and is this the empirical scientific evidence of AGW for which we sceptics have been clamouring? Sarc/on

    “the last decade was the hottest in the last 1300 years (if not the last 9000 years)”!

    For more on the hypocrisy of these Greens in their home State, check my own efforts on this link plus the technical details by Tonyfromoz on the link following..

    http://jennifermarohasy.com/2012/01/the-musselroe-wind-farm-travesty-keith-h/

    http://papundits.wordpress.com/2012/01/18/wind-power-australia-the-musselroe-wind-farm-travesty-in-tasmania/

  44. Julian Flood says: March 26, 2012 at 11:37 am
    “I resent the fact that Stalin got away with it.”

    In “Stalin’s Last Crime”, the authors speculate that Khrushchev and Beria poisoned Stalin with Warfarin from the symptoms he exhibited.

    Molotov is quoted as saying that Beria told him on 1 May, 1953: “I did him in. I saved all of you.”
    It appears that Stalin was going to recreate “The Terror”.

    Stalin’s narrative was the so-called Doctor’s Plot. Stalin had already established death camps and was apparently going to continue Hitler’s final solution. And Stalin was preparing to start WW III; his authorization for the China/North Korean invasion of South Korea was a prelude to get the west involved in a land war in Asia.

    What I really resent is the fact that some people still revere Stalin.

    Regards,
    Steamboat Jack (Jon Jewett’s evil twin)

  45. Werner Brozek says:

    hillbilly33 says:
    March 26, 2012 at 4:11 pm
    “the last decade was the hottest in the last 1300 years (if not the last 9000 years)”!

    That sounds ominous; that is until you put things into perspective. Exactly how much warmer was the last decade than the previous one? Would you believe only 0.21 C? Furthermore, the 1991-2000 average anomaly was 0.25. The anomaly for January 2012 was even less than this at 0.218.

  46. Steve O says:

    I am convinced that scientists just want to do good science. But there are others involved.

    Those who are alarmed utterly fail to recognize the possibility that some advocates may have other motives besides saving the planet. And there’s really no excuse for that. Certain politicians have jumped on board the wagon and are offering solutions — increased government power, higher taxes and wealth transfers — that have been their preferred solution for every problem of the last 100 years. It doesn’t even occur to them that others should find that suspicious.

    They also fail to acknowledge the contribution of anti-American sentiments around the world, and their possible motives for advocating actions that would weaken the US economically.

    Al Gore is another blind spot. One of the leading advocates of the movement is a politician turned private equity partner poised to reap millions of dollars based on government spending to combat global warming, even as his lifestyle of conspicuous consumption has the carbon footprint of a small village.

  47. hillbilly33 says:

    Werner Brozok @ 5.13pm
    Unfortunately Werner, it seems Gaia didn’t give Bob Brown any reference or citation to back up his “hottest decade in the last 1300, maybe 9000 years claim”.!

    On a similar theme, do I sense a decided effort by alarmists to back away from some of their dogma?
    .
    Research News
    NASA Finds 2011 Ninth Warmest Year on Record
    Jan. 19, 2012

    “The difference between 2011 and the warmest year in the GISS record (2010) is 0.22°F (0.12°C). This underscores the emphasis scientists put on the long-term trend of global temperature rise. Because of the large natural variability of climate, scientists do not expect temperatures to rise consistently year after year. However, they do expect a continuing temperature rise over decades.
    (What are you saying James? Effects of CO2 are insignificant in the face of large natural variability?)

    “Higher temperatures today are largely sustained by increased atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases, especially carbon dioxide”.
    (Sustained by as opposed to caused by? Just what’s going on here James?!)

    http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/20120119/

  48. Gail Combs says:

    Keith Pearson, Formerly bikermailman, Anon No Longer says:
    March 26, 2012 at 10:19 am

    “…owners of sites and mods IMO are irresponsible for letting things spiral out of control. Again, I see garbage come from all sides, no Left/Right Black/White or any other group is excepted. We are, I’m afraid , that some rough times are coming to us. Cooler heads will be needed to calm things down, not throw gasoline on the fire….”
    _________________________________
    Perhaps Heinlein was correct:
    “A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot…” ~ Robert A. Heinlein

  49. Gail Combs says:

    Myrrh says: @ March 26, 2012 at 1:34 pm
    ….But I think it’s more involved than that, seem to recall that J.P.Morgan expended quite a bit of effort on acquiring print media in the beginning of the 20th century, so these could be just cabal stooges, but would have to check..
    _______________________________
    It was read into the US Congressional Record of 1917. Morgan bought up enough Newspapers to control the news. http://www.examiner.com/la-county-nonpartisan-in-los-angeles/congressional-record-jp-morgan-co-purchased-all-major-media-for-propaganda-1917-and-now

    Professor Carroll Quigley documented the “cabal”. You can start with his Wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carroll_Quigley

    This links a lot of the goings on together starting with Quigley From Carroll Quigley to the UN Millennium Summit

  50. Werner Brozek says:

    hillbilly33 says:
    March 26, 2012 at 6:35 pm

    Thank you. (My numbers were based on HadCrut by the way.)

    When using different data sets, much of what was stated here is different.

    2011 was one of the 10 warmest years on record
    With RSS, 2011 was only the 12th warmest.

    The warmest years on record were 2005 and 2010
    RSS still has 1998 as the hottest.

    The difference between 2011 and the warmest year in the GISS record (2010) is 0.22°F (0.12°C).
    According to RSS, the difference between its hottest year, 1998, and 2011 is 0.403 C!

  51. Myrrh says:

    RobRoy says:
    March 26, 2012 at 2:26 pm
    Gail Combs says:
    March 26, 2012 at 7:13 pm

    I’ve found some more on it here, http://www.thehiddenevil.com/media.asp

    Steamboat Jack says:
    March 26, 2012 at 4:17 pm
    Julian Flood says: March 26, 2012 at 11:37 am
    “I resent the fact that Stalin got away with it.”

    In “Stalin’s Last Crime”, the authors speculate that Khrushchev and Beria poisoned Stalin with Warfarin from the symptoms he exhibited.

    I’d heard of some of this before: http://www.thehiddenevil.com/communists.asp

    It’s not the rich that are the problem here, it’s the bwankers who having got very very rich by lending to both sides in disputes saw that way lay greater riches and began to manipulate to create disputes, and then stepped into the game themselves by controlling governments and this is when they re-introduced in the US, from Britain, their control of the money supply. Since then they have created a system for themselves setting the amount out of nothing they can claim is money, and trade in that ongoing. From this, they became ridiculously rich, so would anyone who could put 100 dollars into their own bank account and could call it 1000 and then even magik that 100 out of nothing, like debt; someone borrowing from them creates it, and other variations. http://www.themoneymasters.com/faqs/

    They got bored, and what could be more exciting than playing their version of God? So cue in the One World Governance, the New World Order, with all these sincere and emotionally energetic greenies available to push the wagon. I saw a page somewhere, didn’t book mark it, that looked at various lists of who were to be counted as terror ists, anyone mentioning the Constitution was on one..

    I’ve been thinking a bit about this, but not able to concentrate on it, what can be put in place re money supply so that it remains merely a means of delineating value in exchanges? Somewhere I made a note of the name.., but one man talked about the old tally system which bankers couldn’t beat. Anything like the gold standard ends up with the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, because that is control of a finite commodity, when the ideal is simply a means of expediting barter.

    I’m getting concerned that as more people become aware of how manipulated we’ve been that some will think the solution is violence to change it, but that always plays back into their, the manipulators, favour, they’re well practiced in maintaining control in violent confusion. I think we need to have something to put in its place while spreading the examination of the background to all this. the Constitution, that is, the ground of its being which is Common Law, is one aspect very much relevant because without teaching this people don’t know that this has been targetted for destruction – the meme democracy put in its place which is tyranny by the majority, or who think they’re the majority, and so don’t realise just how much our freedoms have been taken from us.

    Anyway, just my thoughts as far as I’ve got, that these two aspects, a new, or rather the old tally system if that is just a means of helping exchanges, and reclaiming Common Law for all, are two sides of the same coin and they need, I think, to be linked together in this in presenting an alternative to the bwankers.

  52. Gail Combs says:

    Myrrh, Smokey, thanks for the links.

    If you haven’t looked at them already, here are references on money/economics. (CAGW is by now obviously driven by the money motive and not science.)

    An excellent in depth explanation of how the US Federal Reserve works can be found in:
    A PRIMER ON MONEY: Congressional COMMITTEE ON BANKING AND CURRENCY.
    http://famguardian.org/Subjects/MoneyBanking/Money/patman-primer-on-money.pdf

    A short history is here: http://hubpages.com/hub/How-The-United-States-People-Was-Betrayed-In-1913-By-The-Federal-reserve-Act

    Money is Created by Banks: Evidence Given by Graham Towers
    Some of the most frank evidence on banking practices was given by Graham F. Towers, Governor of the Central Bank of Canada (from 1934 to 1955), before the Canadian Government’s Committee on Banking and Commerce, in 1939… http://freedomprime.blogspot.com/2008/08/money-is-created-by-banks-evidence.html

    Economist Mises on Money: http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north83.html
    Note:Mises former disciple, F. A. Hayek, shared the Nobel Prize in Economics. Hayek won on the basis of his theory of the business cycle, developed in the 1930′s, which was based almost entirely on Mises’s Theory of Money and Credit, and also for his theory of the free market as a transmitter of accurate information, a theory developed originally by Mises.

    DATA over time
    Gold price http://www.finfacts.ie/Private/curency/goldmarketprice.htm
    Money supply http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/BOGUMBNS.txt
    Min Wage http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/chart.htm

    Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves. ~ Norm Franz

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