Last minute Durban deal reached – extends life of Kyoto protocol

Kyoto has become a zombie, coming to life after being dead…

Excerpts from Yahoo News

(AP) — A U.N. climate conference reached a hard-fought agreement Sunday on a complex and far-reaching program meant to set a new course for the global fight against climate change for the coming decades.

The 194-party conference agreed to start negotiations on a new accord that would put all countries under the same legal regime enforcing commitments to control greenhouse gases. It would take effect by 2020 at the latest.

The deal also set up the bodies that will collect, govern and distribute tens of billions of dollars a year for poor countries. Other documents in the package lay out rules for monitoring and verifying emissions reductions, protecting forests, transferring clean technologies to developing countries and scores of technical issues.

Currently, only industrial countries have legally binding emissions targets under the 1997 Kyoto Protocol. Those commitments expire next year, but they will be extended for another five years under the accord adopted Sunday — a key demand by developing countries seeking to preserve the only existing treaty regulating carbon emissions.

“This is a very significant package. None of us likes everything in it. Believe me, there is plenty the United States is not thrilled about,” said U.S. climate envoy Todd Stern. But the package captured important advances that would be undone if it is rejected, he told the delegates.

The deal’s language left some analysts warning that the wording left huge loopholes for countries to avoid tying their emissions to legal constraints, and noted that there was no mention of penalties. “They haven’t reached a real deal,” said Samantha Smith, of WWF International. “They watered things down so everyone could get on board.”

The package gave new life to the 1997 Kyoto Protocol, whose carbon emissions targets expire next year and apply only to industrial countries. A separate document obliges major developing nations like China and India, excluded under Kyoto, to accept legally binding emissions targets in the future.

Together, the two documents overhaul a system designed 20 years ago that divide the world into a handful of wealthy countries facing legal obligations to reduce emissions, and the rest of the world which could undertake voluntary efforts to control carbon.

full story at: Yahoo News

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102 thoughts on “Last minute Durban deal reached – extends life of Kyoto protocol

  1. Love this line: “But the package captured important advances that would be undone if it is rejected”

  2. I was hoping the “Durbal’ typo meant the deal was a joke Well, it is, anyway, but for some reason I’m not laughing. Guess this means a bunch of bureaucrats will continue to wine (whine), dine and fly around to exotic locations on our accounts. They’re holding onto their jobs for a while longer.

  3. More madness. Not about science in any way, and using obsolete and largely disproven tripe as a basis for action. Basically any poor country can cry foul during a storm, using any weather event to ‘prove’ culpability by the wicked West.

  4. COP18, COP19, COP20 … and on and on … so many exotic locales to visit … so many billions of dollars to hand over to the UN.

  5. Can’t somebody come up with some other “cause” for these people to work on (perhaps one that wouldn’t involve ceasing fossil fuel use), so they can let this one go?

    Maybe Santa could use some help?

  6. “The good news is we avoided a train wreck,” said Alden Meyer, recalling predictions a few days ago of a likely failure. “The bad news is that we did very little here to affect the emissions curve.”
    – Yahoo News

    So does this mean the deal is “toothless”? A hollow victory to save face?

  7. From what I read, the delegates agreed to negotiate a new agreement no later than 2015. It sounds like they agreed to agree later.

  8. This means the individual leaches who participated in this conference will remain dining at the public trough indefinitely. That’s what I would call a VERY successful conference in the eyes of the participants. Let the good times ROLL!

  9. NO US agreement will EVER pass the Senate especially with an election year in the works. Those who do vote for that will get brutalized in any election. Thank GOD for the US senate! I can safely say – not one cent will be forthcoming from the US which will scuttle this agreement.

  10. It takes 67 votes in the senate to approve a treaty. That will never happen, just like it never happened with the Kyoto treaty.

  11. Theater of the absurd: “…broad comedy, often similar to Vaudeville, mixed with horrific or tragic images; characters caught in hopeless situations forced to do repetitive or meaningless actions; dialogue full of clichés, wordplay, and nonsense; plots that are cyclical or absurdly expansive…” (Wiki)
    Time to bring down the curtain.

  12. Madness is right:

    Sunday’s breakthrough capped 13 days of hectic negotiations that ran a day and a half over schedule, including two round-the-clock days that left negotiators bleary-eyed and stumbling with words. Delegates were seen nodding off in the final plenary session, despite the high drama, barely constrained emotions and uncertainty whether the talks would end in triumph or total collapse.

    Yeah, that sounds like a great way to run the world /s
    And this:

    Coming after weeks of unsuccessful effort to resolve the issue, Nkoana-Mashabane gave Natarajan and European Commissioner Connie Hedegaard 10 minutes to find a solution, with hundreds of delegates milling around them.

    They needed 50 minutes.

    Wow! I’m impressed…these guys are sooooo bright that they only need 50 minutes to solve the world’s problems /s

    Madness. But it looks like mostly a face-saving (expensive) exercise. China/India will never agree to legal binding emission controls….and the EU would have enough worries one would think

  13. I thought something happened over there: In Sydney Australia, this very afternoon, the clear and sunny day went away and was replaced by thunderstorms in a matter of minutes, right around the time the negotiators in Durban agreed to a deal!

    I guess COP17 was a success after all and has defeated climate change – ruining my weekend away from the computer. *sigh*

  14. The UN does not have force of law in the US. They are not elected, they are self-appointed. They are not a government, they are a diplomatic body. Diplomats do not carry the force of law. They are basically the political cronies of whichever despot is running their country, for the most part.

  15. This about the least and most feeble of “deals” that one could make and still call it a “deal”. A face-saving “Nothing Burger” with an imaginary side of fries…

  16. Apart from the beneficiaries who is going to sign up? Obviously the EU and no doubt Australia, but who else? I live in the UK and I am almost hoping recent events will lead to the UK leaving the EU. At least we can then dump Huhne the loon and tackle real problems, like the economy – I mean boosting it, not destroying it.

    Even so we are facing a strong possibility of a complete Global meltdown, which will certainly curb CO2!. The eco-activists can take credit for their part in bringing it about, but they won’t like the world they helped to create.

    It looks like they have created a window for at least three more years of junkets, but they shouldn’t book too far in advance as events may overtake them.

  17. @ albertalad

    Since the senate never ratified Kyoto and in fact rejected it, why would they have any part in it now. It’s looks like they’ve done some kind of an end run around the senate.

  18. It took 70 years for the Soviet Union experiment to end. Facts and reality will also end this global warming hysteria, hopefully sooner than how long the socialist experiment took.

  19. This thing is even a bigger mess then Koyoto. I suspect it will make noise, fall and just die a slow and painful death. However the nonsense from both extreems will be with us well beyond my lifetime.

  20. People, it takes 67 votes in the US Senate to ratify. Not going to happen, just like Kyoto didn’t happen. Same bovine scatology, different day. We have to continue to keep our eyes on the real ball before anything real can with these sorts of agreements. Keep beating the drums and pounding the pavement. Expose these frauds every possible chance .. keep it going

  21. Robmax says:
    December 10, 2011 at 9:48 pm

    It’s looks like they’ve done some kind of an end run around the senate.

    No, nothing can be done without 67 votes from the U.S Senate. Just not going to happen. In this country, international agreements (treaties) cannot bind us to anything without 2/3 majority passing vote of our Senate, period.

  22. Its all moot if the Euro disintegrates as a consequence of the Greek and Italian defaults. The meeting in Europe this week only effectively delayed the process until the first government votes in the various parliaments. Some heads of state may loose their jobs just for agreeing to what’s effectively an EU treasury act stripping individual parliaments of the right to set tax, pension and spending rates. They will need many more riot helmets.
    The Euro is literally one vote or one riot squad Commander (switching sides) away from failing.
    If the Euro fails then the carbon trading system goes down because its all interlocked via legislation coached in the term of Euro’s per tonne of CO2 equivilent. Without the European CO2 market legislation clauses in Australia and New Zealand will kick in triggering votes.
    Its all teetering on a knife edge.
    The good news is that more informations coming out about E-Cat and the Piantelli Group cold fusion technology and it seems to be confirming data.

    http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/12/04/slides-from-sept-22-nasa-lenr-innovation-forum-workshop/

  23. As Premier of the Duchy of Grand Fenwick, let me assure everyone, we intend to comply and demand those who don’t pay proper reparations. Mainly to ourselves. And those we suggest.

  24. “They watered things down so everyone could get on board.”
    so you crippled it. what a joke.

    “verifying emissions reductions, protecting forests, transferring clean technologies to developing countries”
    sure – verify the emissions, supervise their forests and power them up with wind a solar!! [rolleyes]

  25. Some months ago on P. Gosselin’s NoTricksZone

    http://notrickszone.com/

    there was a post explaining who wrote (or was responsible for) the Kyoto protocol. I do not have a link to that story. Sorry.
    One thing I recall is that much of it was contributed by supporters of the green sorts in Germany. Also, it might seem that as a developed country, Germany would be treated in a manner similar to the USA and other such developed countries. However, the reunification of East & West Germany and the costs of bringing the East German industries up to West German standards –and the lowering of emissions in the process, effectively negated the effect of Kyoto on the new combined Germany.

    There was much more. Perhaps these hidden agendas in Kyoto are what folks in charge of the Durban Deal have been fighting to protect by its extension.

    The above mentioned NoTricksZone post would be useful reading. I don’t know how to find it.

  26. Here’s the best lipstick that Richard Black, the BBC’s Green parrot, can put on this pig:

    “UN climate talks have closed with agreement on a package of measures described by the chair as “balanced”.

    The European Union will place its current emission-cutting pledges inside the legally-binding Kyoto Protocol, a key demand of developing countries.

    Talks on a new legal deal covering all countries will begin next year and end by 2015, coming into effect by 2020.

    Management of a fund for climate aid to poor countries has also been agreed, though how to raise the money has not.”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16124670

    There’s more but that’s how it starts. If that’s the best Black can do then there can’t be much to it at all. Also worth noting that although this is breaking news, there are 304 comments and they have already closed comments. They only do that when the ‘little people’ aren’t buying their spin, which seems to be happening a lot these days.

    Then on his blog Black tweets “Still not sure I understand the last hour of procedure #cop17 If it matters, we are sure to find out the hard way.”

    So, hard to say what is going on. Yes, the UN says something happened but they lie all the time.

  27. 1. “…The deal also set up the bodies that will collect, govern and distribute tens of billions of dollars a year for poor countries. Other documents in the package lay out rules for monitoring and verifying emissions reductions, protecting forests, transferring clean technologies to developing countries and scores of technical issues…”

    I’m sure that the people of Haiti will be glad – if anyone needs to have their forested areas protected, it’s them. They’ve only got about 2 percent of it left.

    2. “…The 194-party conference agreed to start negotiations on a new accord that would put all countries under the same legal regime enforcing commitments to control greenhouse gases. It would take effect by 2020 at the latest…”

    So here we just saw COP 17. That means they can have about 9 more parties before they have to panic again.

    Also, it says they’ve agreed to START negotiations on a new accord. Doesn’t say there is a new accord. So wait to see the “traveling circus” go on a new 9 city tour (for COP’s 18-26).

  28. Owner: No no! ‘E’s pining!

    Mr. Praline: ‘E’s not pinin’! ‘E’s passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! ‘E’s expired and gone to meet ‘is maker! ‘E’s a stiff! Bereft of life, ‘e
    rests in peace! If you hadn’t nailed ‘im to the perch ‘e’d be pushing up the daisies! ‘Is metabolic processes are now ‘istory! ‘E’s off the twig! ‘E’s kicked the
    bucket, ‘e’s shuffled off ‘is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin’ choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!

    Kyoto=dead

  29. From Australia, home of the free and objective press (sarc), this is how a story from there begins… and again, it doesn’t look like much:

    “Big emitters vow action on climate change Adam Morton
    December 11, 2011 – 4:36PM

    .The world’s major greenhouse gas emitters have agreed on a roadmap that – if followed – would lead to a global pact to tackle climate change with “legal force” by 2015.

    http://www.theage.com.au/environment/big-emitters-vow-action-on-climate-change-20111211-1opgw.html#ixzz1gClOhdKR

    “vow”… “if followed” blah, blah, blah.

    More inconvenient details: “But it is expected only the 27-nation European Union, Norway and Switzerland — responsible for about 17 per cent of global emissions — will make binding commitments under a second period of the [Kyoto] protocol starting in 2013.

    Other countries including the US, Japan, Canada and Russia have said they will not be part of the Kyoto Protocol, and want it replaced by a single treaty covering all countries.

    Climate Change Minister Greg Combet said Australia would not sign up to a second binding target under Kyoto until all major countries had agreed to binding targets to limit their emissions.”

    But a few more years on the AGW gravy train at least, for these climatutes.

    Why would the EU and Switzerland support it? Many reason but, coincidentally, Bonn and Geneva are the two places they are thinking of having the HQ for their $100 billion a year slush fund. Could have an office right next store to Bankster Central in Geneva. Very handy.

  30. When will the public, around the World, wake up to this scam. Or to put it another way, when with they be able to offer enough resistance? Indeed more of the same, snouts in the feeding bowl.

  31. guys, guys… the second batch of hackergate mails was tooooo late in arriving! Ain’t ya got nuthin… else?

  32. So what happens if we don’t ever pass a budget and send money?
    I understand the UN can’t levy and collect taxes.

    It would take a Constitutional amendment to give up the sovereign (and Congress controlled) right to tax. This appears more a vehicle to allow politicians to garner contributions out of the pockets of naive greenies than a socialist agenda. What’s in it for the UN is the opportunity of that bureaucracy to engage in rounding errors when handling any monies.

  33. @anticlimactic says: December 10, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    I’m sure you are right. The only people who have anything to fear from this are the English speaking countries, plus the Germans, Dutch & Scandinavians. Sure, the US won’t swallow all the pill, just enough of it to keep the EPA and the rest of them in business.

    But the leaders of the pack will doubtless be the UK and Australia and NZ, all of whom have already enthusiastically thrown the economy under a bus as a tribute to Gaia.

    When we tire of shivering in the dark we will know something will change. Until then, we won’t even see BuffHuhne in court for what is a blatant prima fascie case of criminal behaviour. If it had been (let’s say) Jeremy Clarkson who had got his wife to pretend she’d been driving when he’d been clocked for speeding, he’d have been in Court (“in the public interest”) in a heartbeat. But although this is a disgrace, yet another example of our corrupt Crown Prosecution Service, what we should be seeing is Huhne & Milipede both impeached for misleading the House on Climate Change.

    Will that ever happen?

    Not a prayer.

  34. “But the package captured important advances that would be undone if it is rejected…”

    Like what? Hide the decline? Just what important advances?

  35. “…U.S. climate envoy Todd Stern.”
    ——————————————-
    Climate envoy? Climate envoy? This world has gotten so f-ing ridiculous!

    I hereby appoint myself Lord High Chancellor of Cloud Cuckoo Land.

  36. Durban, like previous U.N. Climate Conferences, again proves that if you pay people enough money, they will actively conspire to deceive the public, or knowingly acquiesce to the fraud of global warming.

    Earth has already entered a natural cooling cycle, or soon will. The technical argument for cooling is receiving early-stage support from atmospheric and ocean temperature data. We will soon know if multi-decadal natural cooling has commenced. (BTW, I predicted such natural global cooling in an article published in 2003.)

    There is also significant sociological support for global cooling. The global warming extremists are already scrambling to revise their manmade-fossil-fuel-burning-causes-runaway-global-warming hypotheses.

    Some are saying that increased CO2 actually causes global cooling, not warming. Quelle surprise! Others are blaming humanmade aerosols for the lack of global warming – but they had to fabricate the aerosol data to support their case!

    Both arguments are utterly specious. No matter – anything for The Cause!

    It is past time that governments stop their cowardly acquiescence to the scoundrels and imbeciles of global warming.

    A trillion dollars of scarce global resources has been squandered on the fraud of global warming.

    Even the most cynical or stupid politicians must finally be realizing that the public is no longer deceived. There is no manmade global warming crisis – only a Mann-made one.

  37. R. Gates says:
    December 10, 2011 at 9:37 pm
    “This about the least and most feeble of “deals” that one could make and still call it a “deal”. A face-saving “Nothing Burger” with an imaginary side of fries…”

    Aye, it’s a shaky puddin’ at best… but the only thing that could have made it better would have been a majority of these self serving parasites to have just admitted it was a well funded farce all along…. and begged for forgiveness instead of 300 lashes and life imprisonment. No doubt we’ll spend a few hundred Billion$ more, and kill off another million or so humans that were denied fresh water, food, basic hygiene, low cost energy, and real jobs and paychecks, because we focused our precious resources on the politically correct inconsequentialities of the AGW shaky puddin’ instead of the very real needs today of our brothers. We all must bear this shame.

    I feel your pain…..

    MtK

  38. Whew! I didn’t think the saviors of the planet were going to going to make it to a real agreement! /sarc

    COP18, COP19, COP20……. COP OUT. And yet, the beast ain’t dead! It’s in critical condition and on life support monitoring… but it ain’t dead yet. It won’t really die until the stake of solid data and analysis is driven trough it’s diseased heart and the twin silver bullets of fraud and corruption convictions from ballistic launched FOIAs find their down range, sooooo richly deserved targets.

    Keep the pressure on, Me Hearties!

  39. Pat says:
    “December 10, 2011 at 10:14 pm
    As Premier of the Duchy of Grand Fenwick, let me assure everyone, we intend to comply and demand those who don’t pay proper reparations. Mainly to ourselves. And those we suggest.”

    We can make a grand alliance Premier. As King of the English Channel Dominion the seas around my house are continually absorbing CO2. We need to combine our forces and extract a tribute from our subjects.

    tonyb

  40. What is the point of this “agreement” when the EU is facing more austerity and Euro meltdown, the US huge debt and no ratification of Kyoto or Son Of; India and China just playing along for the show. What is left when the big players can’t or a refusing to play along? More exotic trips by plane for just a little while longer until reality hits home. ;O)

  41. Richard111 says:
    December 10, 2011 at 11:09 pm

    “Like what? Hide the decline? Just what important advances?”

    This “hide the decline” strategy apples to this whole process since Copenhagen, like this burst of spun “news” articles about this. Headlines far more positive than the details in even the most spun and the TV coverage is bound to be just glorious.

  42. Squidly, it may take 67 votes in the senate but we desperately need a Republican congress come 2012. It is much too scary in these times with a Democratic senate. Unfortunately, according to RealClear politics, the dems are currently leading in the generic ballot. It is amazing how many dumb and clueless Americans there are among us. Soooooooo many sheeple.

  43. The US Senate does not have to ratify the treaty for the Obama administration to enact its provisions. It can simply go around Congress as it has done on any number of issues when its policies have been rejected by the people.

    The US Supreme Court gave the Environmental Protection Agency(EPA) the power to declare CO2 a pollutant under the Clean Air Act and, thus, the power to regulate CO2 emissions as it sees fit. If re-elected in 2012, Obama can and will use the EPA to enforce the provisions of any UN Climate Change Treaty even if the Senate never formally ratifies it.

  44. peetee says:
    December 10, 2011 at 10:51 pm

    guys, guys… the second batch of hackergate mails was tooooo late in arriving! Ain’t ya got nuthin… else?
    ===========================================================
    lol, well, there is the little thing about the globe cooling while CO2 emissions are going up……. hurricanes trending down, sea levels dropping, 100s of millions of pissed of tax payers, a public moving away from the alarmism, the absolute failure and overwhelming expense of renewable energy…… even members of the team walking back their extreme prognostications. Two countries that are thinking about withdrawing from Kyoto altogether…… but other than that…. no, not much…. it won’t be long now, these vapid conferences will be closed due to lack of interest and funding.

    Don’t worry though, I’m sure the loons will find another issue to latch on to in an effort to continue to subject humanity with their misery and misanthropy.

  45. This is all political sophistry. Our elected (in some countries) leaders can claim to have achieved something, thereby keeping the ecoloons on-side, whilst having to do nothing tangible. As temps fail to rise over the next few years the AGW hysteria will fizzle out and the politicians will slowly distance themselves from the whole scam. Joe Public will have lost interest and AGW will cease to be an election issue. However, the greenwashed wackos will become ever more desperate and shrill which should be amusing. I wonder which apocalyptic scenario they will migrate to next?

  46. FOIA tried to alert the powers that be but they steadfastly refused to listen. The MSM steadfastly refused to raise any concerns and the populace went about their business in mental oblivion. Will FOIA now release the rest of the emails? If he does, will they be damaging enough to finally destroy the hypothesis? Nature has already done the damage but the pollies aren’t convinced.

  47. Kyoto 5 more years extended, but also, at the same time, the proposed new draft rejected!
    The historical guilt, which England had to admit it this draft, was, they as the historical villains started the industrial revolution, messed up the climate and therefore have to pay accordingly! They had the chance to stay ecological farmers but did not do it…. now its time to take out the cheque book, their own fault….. But,
    ….. since temps will stay flat since 2001 for the coming decades, AGW will loose their proponents, and, as they will continue thereafter extending Kyoto another 5 and further 5 etc. more years, AGW will become more and more ridiculous….and will slowly disappear into the trash can of history…..
    We are the ones who are ahead of our times, whereas AGW is blind and drags behind history…
    JS

  48. My take is they have reported success in talking and have succeeded in planning to do some more robust talking in the future… It appears the words are more important than any action…

    Given the utter lack of attention people are paying to this online – (search youtube and find all the COP videos gathering dust in corners with less than a dozen viewers) – its in its death throws. They *know* reality isn’t on their side and the general population are noticing the difference between what they preach and how darn cold and generally ‘unwarm’ the weather is (Sydney just had its coldest start to December in 50 odd years!). You can only fool all of the people some of the time – the timer is up!

  49. Trying to control climate change is to f**t against thunder. It is about MONEY and how much these developing countries can screw out of the West.

  50. TomRude: (in part) “If you hadn’t nailed ‘im to the perch ‘e’d be pushing up the daisies! …”

    Sweet, Tom!

  51. I have just seen a clip from the conference showing vast, and I mean vast, numbers of people in a conference hall, all pressed closely together. So closely together that they were all in physical contact with one another. My first thought was about the massive carbon footprint they had made. My second thought concerned the overwhelming smell of body odour.

  52. So how does 67 votes in the US Senate matter? The ‘Bama has demonstrated that laws and even the Constitution don’t matter when they conflict with working for a Noble Cause. The EPA has shown they can simply declare something a pollutant and mandate the emissions, keep tightening down the screws until entire industries are regulated out of business, they can even demand impractical nigh-impossible higher fuel mileage requirements despite the suffering that will be forced upon would-be consumers.

    So the EPA will now simply cite the overwhelming consensus among the international community to fight climate change, cite our moral (if not yet legal) obligation as part of the international community, and shape EPA policy to reflect the will of the international community as expressed by Kyoto-stein’s monster.

    Gee whiz people, you’re talking like the US is still a democratic republic, instead of a People’s Progressive Democratic Republic.

  53. Steve Koch [December 10, 2011 at 9:09 pm] says: “It takes 67 votes in the senate to approve a treaty. That will never happen, just like it never happened with the Kyoto treaty.”

    Squidly [December 10, 2011 at 10:02 pm] says: “People, it takes 67 votes in the US Senate to ratify. Not going to happen, just like Kyoto didn’t happen”

    That is true. But I wonder what would happen if several (or perhaps twenty) were not voting. Put nothing past the fellow traveler schemers in the District of Criminals. Additional concern is that the VP can act as 101st Senator. Too close for comfort I think.

    The point is, allowing 67 bureaucrats from that chamber of 100 pompous asses to wield this immense power over 310 million people is just too dangerous, these days. Here is really something interesting. My quick math says that those 67 Senators represent 0.00000021612903225806451612903225806452 % of the USA population. Compare that to CO2! That group of Senators is the real trace element, and potentially far more dangerous than any gas.

    As John Adams said in 1798 :: “While our country remains untainted with the principles and manners which are now producing desolation in so many parts of the world; while she continues sincere, and incapable of insidious and impious policy, we shall have the strongest reason to rejoice in the local destination assigned us by Providence. But should the people of America once become capable of that deep simulation towards one another, and towards foreign nations, which assumes the language of justice and moderation, while it is practising iniquity and extravagance, and displays in the most captivating manner the charming pictures of candour, frankness, and sincerity, while it is rioting in rapine and insolence, this country will be the most miserable habitation in the world. Because we have no government, armed with power, capable of contending with human passions, unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. Oaths in this country are as yet universally considered as sacred obligations. That which you have taken, and so solemnly repeated on that venerable ground, is an ample pledge of your sincerity and devotion to your country and its government.”

    An Amendment changing that to 3/4ths or perhaps even unanimous is the way to go. Personally I think we should just line out the concept of treaties altogether. We are far past the era of loyalty to America and integrity of politicians. When pitted against Neo-Communism, our Constitution is as strong as (and treated like) toilet paper. It will only be relied upon when it appears to advance the cause of the enemy. On the other hand, there is a long simmering battle yet to be fought. If they try this, either a Constitutional convention or Civil War (perhaps both) will follow.

    Cheering about the postponement of this nonsense is also not logical. There is a reason they are kicking the can down the road. When they press for such an expensive, radical communist idea as this during a time of world fiscal meltdown, they are in effect on better footing 10 or 20 years later when economies are again vibrant. Then they say, ‘now we can spend money on green treaties!’. And many dummies will agree. This is how they methodically wait us out.

  54. R. Gates says:
    “This about the least and most feeble of “deals” that one could make and still call it a “deal”. A face-saving “Nothing Burger” with an imaginary side of fries…”

    If so, let the bells peal out for Christmas!

  55. They agreed to extend Kyoto NEXT YEAR… 1 month before it expires. IOW, they didn’t extend it now. And next year they will somehow, well, maybe even extend it, but only after filling it with whatever excemption they need. Or let it vanish. They did exactly nothing in Durban.

  56. crosspatch says:
    December 10, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    The UN does not have force of law in the US. They are not elected, they are self-appointed. They are not a government, they are a diplomatic body. Diplomats do not carry the force of law. They are basically the political cronies of whichever despot is running their country, for the most part.
    =======================
    thing is anytime someone from a govt decides to sign one of these un wto type treaties it Over rides the laws of the land that signs it!
    ie WTO over rode australias laws regarding imports of fruit likely to bring disease into our country.from NZ apples and pears. bananas from tropics will now be pushing for import rights with all the risk that entails..
    most of the repressive crazy food laws like the farm bills that criplle all but big agri etc and codex ALL come from the Eu UN.
    I said ages back that the 3rd world nations have seen the gravy train for handouts and bribery, and they will NOT let it go, this durban do just proved how so FEW can be controlling the rest of the world, the entire island nations wouldnt make on large city pop wise, but their yelling and claims will be accorded far more power than any sane person would justify.
    especially as the seas arent rising the weather events are no more than normal etc etc.

  57. The lunatics are well and truly in charge – at the conference.
    The way I understand treaties is that there are several key elements:
    1) Agreement -which we seem to have here
    2)Implementation – the individual treaty states have to go away and enact national legislation to implement the terms of the treaty
    3) Enforcement – legislation is only as good as the means to detect and punish effectively those who violate the terms
    4) Verification – a key component of any treaty is being able to measure compliance verifiably.
    The best hope we have is that back in the various national governments the politicians will find it difficult to enact the legislation necessary.
    I can’t, for example, see too many of them rushing out and disbanding their military. And the idea of handing over technology isn’t too clever because where does it stop?
    Indeed, in some countries (most?) some Intellectual capital is considered of vital importance and may not be shared.
    In other words, while the lunatics have signed them selves up to a fantasy saner heads may prevail at home long enough for the absurdity of it all to sink in.
    What is needed is a healthy fear of the electorate.

  58. Well this is non-news for the U.S. which is essentially the extension of a treaty that the U.S. is not a party to in the first place. So 5 more years of business as usual. The biggest CO2 emitter in the world, China, is exempt. The second fastest growing emitter, India, is also exempt. And the second largest emitter, the United States, is not a party to the treaty. The rest of y’all in Annex I countries must feel sort of hoodwinked. You’re getting taken to the cleaners and the worst part of it is you don’t get anything in return as the amount of CO2 reduction won’t reduce global warming by any detectable amount. Funny stuff. I wouldn’t be laughing if the U.S. had signed on to this scam but it didn’t so all I can do is bemusedly watch the rest of the western world voluntarily cripple itself.

  59. Very useful document…so Durban has agreed, to agree, to agree, to agree, to an almost binding almost legal almost agreement to agree something by God knows when!? Glad that’s out of the way then!!!!

  60. I didn’t see anything in the agreement to increase the number of hookers at future COP parties, so I guess that indirectly answers my question of a few days ago on another thread; did they have enough hookers there or did they need to import some?

    My other question remains unanswered; Will they ever schedule a COP party in a Muslim country where liquor is banned?

  61. In a little noticed codicil to the Durban agreement, the negotiators agreed that representatives to all future meetings will arrive by and only use transportation that does not use fossil fuels either directly or indirectly. Further, all future venues must be entirely powered by wind and solar and have no connection to any exisitng electrical grid that derives its power, in whole or in part, from nuclear or fossil fuels.

  62. forget 67 votes. Kyoto did not receive 1 vote in the US Senate. And without the US, this is nothing but a way for the rest of us to watch the EU implode. Get out the popcorn and watch the show.

  63. Paul Linsay says:
    December 11, 2011 at 6:42 am

    In a little noticed codicil to the Durban agreement, the negotiators agreed that representatives to all future meetings will arrive by and only use transportation that does not use fossil fuels either directly or indirectly. Further, all future venues must be entirely powered by wind and solar and have no connection to any exisitng electrical grid that derives its power, in whole or in part, from nuclear or fossil fuels.

    What? Wait… codicil…code broken…. decipher…

    Know what that means?
    All UN participants must now buy a mandatorily yacht for trasport
    ….with our tax money !!!

  64. What this means is that this crowd of priviliged would-be plutocrats who couldn’t hold a real job if their lives depended on it will be free to fly around the allegedly carbon dioxide afflicted globe (increasing their carbon footprints in the process) and having grand parties while tweaking the boilerplate in their Marxist manifestos. Fortunately, the U.S. Senate, which couldn’t muster a single vote to ratify Kyoto, won’t come remotely close to ratifying some Son of Kyoto. Let them have their parties. As their alarmist warnings continue to prove false, folks around the world will have enough of higher energy costs and consign this farce to the trash bin of history…DJ

  65. Notice how, even after Cancun’s huge bureaucracy creation wave with hundreds of new offices, they had to make even more. This goes perfectly with the ever-growing need of the UN to ever-grow and dominate the world.

    IT IS TIME FOR THE UN TO BE DESTROYED! DISBAND IT NOW BEFORE IT THINKS IT HAS WON!

    UN officials admit that the UN’s goal is to enrich itself and its burgeoning bureaucracy.

  66. Perhaps not all of the Annex 1 countries have agreed to extend the Kyoto Protocol. Canadas Environment Minister (Peter Kent) statement Sunday regarding the Durban agreement….

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/inside-politics-blog/2011/12/canadas-statement-on-durban-climate-deal.html

    Some highlights from the Globe and Mail.
    Mr. Kent, who came to Durban saying Kyoto represents the past, declared Sunday that Canada would not undertake a second Kyoto commitment period.

    “Nor will we devote scarce dollars to capitalize the new Green Climate Fund — part of the Durban agreement — until all major emitters accept legally binding reduction targets and transparent accounting of greenhouse gas inventory.”

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canada-hopeful-of-finalizing-new-climate-deal-by-2015-environment-minister-says/article2267220/

    The following link says Japan and Russia are out too.

    http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/12/11/canada-cautiously-optimistic-about-new-climate-deal-despite-not-signing-on/

  67. TomRude says:
    December 10, 2011 at 10:35 pm

    Owner: No no! ‘E’s pining!
    THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!

    Kyoto=dead

    Desperate action may yet bring it back to life.

  68. The CAGW movement is in freefall …. there will still be vast amounts of propaganda hot air, but this pseudo “agreement” sounds like the most minimal nonsense that could be put out so that they can all agree to continue the meetings in the future. Kyoto will not be succeeded by any new “binding” agreement on emissions, and China, India, and USA were not on board with Kyoto anyway. We can’t declare victory since there is still an unlimited capacity for spewing and believing b.s. among media, NGO, and governmental types, but the “writing is on the wall” announcing the doom of the CAGW frauds.

  69. Great, the CAGW movement is in freefall, whether or not they realize it yet. This pseudo “agreement” represents the absolute minimum they could have feared would come out of the Kyoto-to-Durban process over a dozen years. No real substance about any of their goals, and Kyoto will expire with nothing real to replace it (fortunately). China, India, and the USA are not signing on for UN control of emissions, and nothing in the Durban output can place that central fact in a better light for the CAGW alarmists.

    There will still be endless propaganda hot air spewed, probably with increasing hysteria, but the “writing is on the wall” announcing the collapse of the Kyoto-type process.

  70. DG says: So what happens if we don’t ever pass a budget and send money?
    I understand the UN can’t levy and collect taxes.

    Over the past two decades, the UN has often been in a state of financial crisis – what happens when Member States do not pay their share of costs for the programmes they have mandated. Some countries fail to pay their dues on time due to budgetary technicalities or simple poverty. Others have withheld payments as a way to exert political pressure or to make a political point. No State or private company could function under such conditions, with Member States continuing to ask more and more of the UN, even as dues are withheld.
    As of 31 December 2005, arrears to the regular budget totalled $333.4 million – of which $314 million was for the current year. In addition, $24.9 million was owed in arrears relating to the International Tribunals for the former Yugoslavia and for Rwanda, and $10.2 million with respect to the Capital Master Plan for renovation of the UN’s physical premises in New York.

    When one adds in UN peacekeeping, total unpaid contributions jumps to $3.3 billion, with $2.9 billion owed for peacekeeping alone. Some 33.8 per cent of total arrears – over $1.1 billion – represented outstanding contributions by the United States, with $767.7 million relating to the current period and $343.2 million to prior periods. This difficulty was compounded in the closing days of 2005 when the General Assembly, in order to achieve consensus on its $3.79 billion budget for the biennium 2006-2007, added a provision by which spending authority was limited to $950 million for the first half of 2006. Since expenses are expected to reach some $1.9 billion during the year, the Secretary-General will have to return to the Assembly at some point for additional spending authority to keep the UN operational.
    CHAPTER 5: IS THE UNITED NATIONS GOOD VALUE FOR THE MONEY?

    Apparently they whine a lot and make their lower lip quiver.

  71. There was no agreement. They claimed there was an agreement by consensus, but no vote was taken and they never asked if there were objections. That’s not an agreement, that is P.R.

    Still, it’s important to contact our Senators and remind them that we have too many budgetary problems at home to start shoveling $billions to foreign grifters.

  72. anticlimactic says:
    December 10, 2011 at 9:38 pm
    Apart from the beneficiaries who is going to sign up? Obviously the EU and no doubt Australia, but who else?

    I don’t know about the EU there AC. Given there current economic problems I wouldn’t say that their acceptance is a given. Australia maybe. When is their next election cycle? I have a feeling we might be seeing a major shift if the political landscape there the next time around.

  73. With the Greenhouse Gas Theory now scientifically, without the usual ‘adjusted’ data, trashed and trounced, by, Joseph E. Postma. (M.Sc. Astrophysics, Honours B.Sc. Astronomy
    in his article, Understanding the Thermodynamic Atmosphere Effect, published March 2011
    which concludes:
    “The conclusion of this article is very simple: there is no such thing as a radiative Theory of the Greenhouse Effect, not in real greenhouses, and certainly not in any planetary atmosphere known to man. The true role of the atmosphere, on Earth, is that it cools the ground, not warms it. Therefore, there is no such thing as Anthropogenic Global Warming or anthropogenic-CO2 induced climate change, because that supposition is based on the false Theory of the Greenhouse Effect. Any monetary expenditure or political debate on this issue can therefore stop. Now. Or, those can exist only in so far as they are directed to eradicate the false science.”

    One wonders, if the UN, who instigated the Anthropogenic Global Warming scam during its African Review, as a means of imposing a ‘wealth redistribution tax’ to benefit, Africa, will ban the use of actual science on humanitarian grounds?

    In the meantime can any of you guys tell me, how much electricity it takes to operate one of those giant wind turbines (bonfires on sticks), as this information seems unavailable. Unlike other means of generating electrical power, apparently wind turbines cannot power themselves and have to draw power from the national grid. Uniquely, the power supply is free and not metered, could it be that these monstrosities are using more power than they actually produce?

  74. If these annual conferences were about the world coming together once a year to discuss how and where financial aid is most urgently needed in the coming year instead of hiding behind a false or questionable science in my opinion , there would be more willing world and general public support . Leaving any significant funds in the hands of United Nations reminds one of the FOOD FOR OIL type of risks as happened with the Iraq situation with little oversight about how the money is spent at the UN.We have already read about the corruption in the carbon trading schemes , in the green energy projects and unsupportable subsidies that have bankrupted nations .

  75. I think this is the major deal that was glossed over:

    ….The Durban agreement…sets up the bodies that will collect, govern and distribute tens of billions of dollars to poor countries suffering the effects of climate change….

    EXACTLY what does that mean???

    Back to Lord Monckton’s earlier post.

    Ø The West will pay for everything, because of its “historical responsibility” for causing “global warming”. Third-world countries will not be obliged to pay anything. But it is the UN, not the third-world countries, that will get the money from the West, taking nearly all of it for itself as usual. There is no provision anywhere in the draft for the UN to publish accounts of how it has spent the $100 billion a year the draft demands that the West should stump up from now on.

    The real lunacy comes in the small print…..

    Who pays? Oh, you guessed it before I told you. The West pays…. But the UN’s bureaucrats will actually get all or nearly all the money, and will decide how to allocate what minuscule fraction they have not already spent on themselves. As a senior UN diplomat told me last year, “The UN exists for only one purpose: to get more money. That, and that alone, is the reason why it takes such an interest in climate change.”

    World government: The Copenhagen Treaty draft establishing a world “government” with unlimited powers of taxation and intervention in the affairs of states parties to the UN Framework Convention fortunately failed. Yet at the Cancun climate conference the following year 1000 new bureaucracies were established to form the nucleus of a world government, with central control in the hands of the Convention’s secretariat and tentacles in every region and nation. The draft “agrees that common principles, modalities and procedures as well as the coordinating and oversight functions of the UNFCCC are needed” – in short, global centralization of political, economic and environmental power in the manicured hands of the Convention’s near-invisible but all-powerful secretariat. No provision is made for the democratic election of key members of the all-powerful secretariat – in effect, a world government – by the peoples of our planet.

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/12/09/durban-what-the-media-are-not-telling-you/

    The real lunacy comes in the small print…..

    Since the UN never believed in Climate Change/Globull Warming in the first place, it is the FINE PRINT that sets up the bodies that will collect, govern and distribute…

    That is the real I gotcha. The United Nations gains the holy grail, the ability to TAX directly. This is a major step in changing the UN into a WORLD GOVERNMENT.

    For an analysis of what the United Nations is actually after see: From Carroll Quigley to the UN Millennium Summit: http://www.lewrockwell.com/yates/yates14.html

  76. Steve Koch says:
    December 10, 2011 at 9:09 pm

    It takes 67 votes in the senate to approve a treaty. That will never happen, just like it never happened with the Kyoto treaty.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Do not say NEVER. You forget about the ratification of the World Trade Organization during the Clinton Admin. that is one of the root causes of a US unemployment rate of over 22% for the last four years. Followed by the entry of China into the WTO that Clinton and Al Gore worked hard to accomplish and Bush finished.

    http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/unemployment-charts

    US Trade imbalance since 1995 WTO ratification: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/US_Trade_Balance_1980_2010.svg/500px-US_Trade_Balance_1980_2010.svg.png

    China become member of WTO in 2001: http://www.wto.org/english/news_e/pres01_e/pr243_e.htm

  77. Gary Mount says:
    December 10, 2011 at 9:57 pm

    It took 70 years for the Soviet Union experiment to end. Facts and reality will also end this global warming hysteria, hopefully sooner than how long the socialist experiment took.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    The socialist experiment is alive and well even though one “experiment” failed. http://www.lewrockwell.com/yates/yates14.html

    The Unseen war in the USA Farmageddon: http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/issue/2011-09-24/article/38459?headline=Farmageddon-America-s-War-Against-Small-Farmers

  78. Blade says:
    December 11, 2011 at 3:22 am

    …..On the other hand, there is a long simmering battle yet to be fought. If they try this, either a Constitutional convention or Civil War (perhaps both) will follow…..

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Just as a reminder.

    A Constitutional Convention allows the ENTIRE Constitution to be completely rewritten. It is NOT something we want to leave open to those who wish to nullify the US sovereignty. All it takes is rewording so a Treaty TRUMPS the Constitution, the Idea the Dulles boys have been promoting for years.

  79. JMW says:
    December 11, 2011 at 4:09 am

    ……And the idea of handing over technology isn’t too clever because where does it stop?
    Indeed, in some countries (most?) some Intellectual capital is considered of vital importance and may not be shared…..
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    ERRRRrrr that is already being done.

    Source: The White House Office of Public Liason
    NOVEMBER 17, 1999

    BRIEFING ON THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION AGENDA FOR THE
    WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION MATERIAL
    SUMMARY OF U.S. – CHINA BILATERAL WTO AGREEMENT

    PROTOCOL PROVISIONS

    Commitments in China’s WTO Protocol and Working Party Report establish rights and obligations enforceable through WTO dispute settlement procedures. We have agreed on key provisions relating to antidumping and subsidies, protection against import surges, technology transfer requirements and offsets as well as practices of state-owned and state-invested enterprises. These rules are of special importance to U.S. workers and business.

    China had agreed to implement the TRIMs Agreement upon accession, eliminate and cease enforcing trade and foreign exchange balancing requirements, eliminate and cease enforcing local content requirements, refuse to enforce contracts imposing these requirements; and only impose or enforce laws or other provisions relating to the transfer of technology or other know-how, if they are in accordance with the WTO agreements on protection of intellectual property rights and trade-related investment measures.

    These provisions will also help protect American firms against forced technology transfers, as China has also agreed that, upon accession, it will not condition investment approvals, import licenses, or any other import approval process on performance requirements of any kind, including: local content requirements, offsets, transfer of technology, or requirements to conduct research and development in China….

    https://www.uschina.org/public/991115a.html

    The transnational corporations are not about to let “Nationalism” stand in the way of business.

    Rare Earth Elements (REE) have become a hot media top with the unofficial Chinese export embargo to Japan.REEs are crucial raw materials for a wide range of industries in the Green and Defense Sectors.The Chinese monopoly over the production and supply of these commodities have made EU and USA thinking of taking the WTO route.However this had not detered China from clamping down on the production and exports.China wants to use these minerals as a strategic resource to force Green companies to relocate to China and transfer hard to get technologies to local Chinese companies.Note while EU and USA are looking to export Green Product to China,the government there has shrewdly only given permissions to companies willing to transfer technology

    http://www.greenworldinvestor.com/tag/wto/

  80. Gail Combs [December 12, 2011 at 11:21 am] says:

    “Just as a reminder.

    A Constitutional Convention allows the ENTIRE Constitution to be completely rewritten. It is NOT something we want to leave open to those who wish to nullify the US sovereignty. All it takes is rewording so a Treaty TRUMPS the Constitution, the Idea the Dulles boys have been promoting for years.”

    Well the limits to the scope a Constitutional Convention have always been undefined. We cannot absolutely say as you did that it is unlimited (“allows the ENTIRE Constitution to be completely rewritten“) and I doubt that is what Madison would have agreed to. Personally I think the governor of the hosting state should just use armed guards to keep the liberals out (think outside the box ;-)

    The point is that the FedGov will need radical liposuction and reduction of its acquired powers or else there will be another civil war. Our mangled system is so far beyond what the revolutionaries fought against (est 3% to 10% max taxes), by orders of magnitude in every possible direction. Since the States are the victims in this altered balance of power they must be considered in the coming changes. The Constitutional Convention is the only non-violent avenue available to the states at all (as even the Senators have been co-opted by the 17th). And it is certainly a better choice than war itself (although more people are prepared then ever before).

    You want to know what the real danger to consider is? Well it is not a Constitutional Convention with new Amendments, especially considering the Constitution is De Facto amended or ignored repeatedly by modern hack politicians. The danger lies in pure mathematics. One equation describes the ratio of givers to takers and once it is 50.1% takers, the Republic becomes a democracy and is over anyway. The number of takers is certainly now in the high 40’s. Naturally a Republic shouldn’t have this Democratic problem of mob rule, but here we are nonetheless.

    No, the real absolute danger, the point of no return and the final destination if you will lies in the other mathematical equation. When you cannot get 38 states to exercise their right and authority to pass an Amendment throttling FedGov (e.g., terms limits, repeal the 16th …), then the worst nightmare of the Founders is realized. The magic number here is just 12. Are there 12 hardcore liberal states that will thwart the effort to reduce Fedzilla? It is now too damn close to call. In other words, if another state or two flips solid leftist, there will be no more states. So for the hypothetical Convention, if not now it will certainly be never, well that is unless it occurs from the other direction entirely with 38 of the states turning hardcore liberal and then you better believe the Amendments will come fast and furious from Congress for rubber stamping from these statehouses. That last scenario would be critical mass to neutron fission and national detonation.

    So to sum up the current arithmetic, mathematically the prospects of a radical leftist Amendment making it through 38 states is still unlikely, but the prospects of an originalist pro-American Amendment making it is too close to call. If we kick the can further down the road it may be ultimately impossible. The Constitutional Convention simply ceases to be a vehicle of any use to save the republic. Skip straight to ‘Watering the Tree of Liberty’.

    We have to face the sobering mathematics here, we (actually our immediate descendants) will certainly lose this war from attrition. All the Statists need do is continue importing illegal aliens in (their population here is somewhere between the population of Australia and Canada!), and the math will surely follow. That will be our legacy to our descendants.

  81. As we say in France or in Canada
    “Un nouveau pas encore en avant dans la Connerie” .A new foot step forward again in the stupidity.
    If Australia and Canada are finishing with the Protocol, what is left for us to do.
    Frightening

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