Al Gore and Bill Nye FAIL at doing a simple CO2 experiment

Replicating Al Gore’s Climate 101 video experiment (from the 24 hour Gore-a-thon) shows that his “high school physics” could never work as advertised

Readers may recall my previous essay where I pointed out how Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 Video, used in his “24 hours of climate reality”, had some serious credibility issues with editing things to make it appear as if they had actually performed the experiment, when they clearly did not. It has taken me awhile to replicate the experiment. Delays were a combination of acquisition and shipping problems, combined with my availability since I had to do this on nights and weekends. I worked initially using the original techniques and equipment, and I’ve replicated the Climate 101 experiment in other ways using improved equipment. I’ve compiled several videos. My report follows.

First. as a refresher, here’s the Climate 101 video again:

https://www.climaterealityproject.org/video/climate-101-bill-nye

I direct your attention to the 1 minute mark, lasting through 1:30, where the experiment is presented.

And here’s my critique of it: Video analysis and scene replication suggests that Al Gore’s Climate Reality Project fabricated their Climate 101 video “Simple Experiment”

The most egregious faked presentation in that video was the scene with the split screen thermometers, edited to appear as if the temperature in the jar of elevated CO2 level was rising faster than the jar without elevated CO2 level.

It turns out that the thermometers were never in the jar recording the temperature rise presented in the split screen and the entire presentation was nothing but stagecraft and editing.

This was proven beyond a doubt by the photoshop differencing technique used to compare each side of the split screen. With the exception of the moving thermometer fluid, both sides were identical.

difference process run at full resolution – click to enlarge

Exposing this lie to the viewers didn’t set well with some people, include the supposed “fairness” watchdogs over at Media Matters, who called the analysis a “waste of time”. Of course it’s only a “waste of time” when you prove their man Gore was faking the whole thing, otherwise they wouldn’t care. Personally I consider it a badge of honor for them to take notice because they usually reserve such vitriol for high profile news they don’t like, so apparently I have “arrived”.

The reason why I took so much time then to show this chicanery was Mr. Gore’s pronouncement in an interview the day the video aired.

His specific claim was:

“The deniers claim that it’s some kind of hoax and that the global scientific community is lying to people,” he said. “It’s not a hoax, it’s high school physics.” – Al Gore in an interview with MNN 9/14/2011

So easy a high school kid can do it. Right?

Bill Nye, in his narration at 0:48 in the video says:

You can replicate this effect yourself in a simple lab experiment, here’s how.

…and at 1:10 in the video Nye says:

Within minutes you will see the temperature of the bottle with the carbon dioxide in it rising faster and higher.

So, I decided to find out if that was true and if anyone could really replicate that claim, or if this was just more stagecraft chicanery. I was betting that nobody on Gore’s production team actually did this experiment, or if they did do it, it wasn’t successful, because otherwise, why would they have to fake the results in post production?

The split screen video at 1:17, a screencap of which is a few paragraphs above shows a temperature difference of 2°F. Since Mr. Gore provided no other data, I’ll use that as the standard to meet for a successful experiment.

The first task is to get all the exact same equipment. Again, since Mr. Gore doesn’t provide anything other than the video, finding all of that took some significant effort and time. There’s no bill of materials to work with so I had to rely on finding each item from the visuals. While I found the cookie jars and oral thermometers early on, finding the lamp fixtures, the heat lamps for them, the CO2 tank and the CO2 tank valve proved to be more elusive. Surprisingly, the valve turned out to be the hardest of all items to locate, taking about two weeks from the time I started searching to the time I had located it, ordered it and it arrived. The reason? It isn’t called a valve, but rather a “In-Line On/Off Air Adapter”. Finding the terminology was half the battle. Another surprise was finding that the heat lamps and fixtures were for lizards and terrariums and not some general purpose use. Fortunately the fixtures and lamps were sold together by the same company. While the fixtures supported up to 150 watts, Mr. Gore made no specification on bulb type or wattage, so I chose the middle of the road 100 watt bulbs from the 50, 100, and 150 watt choices available.

I believe that I have done due diligence (as much as possible given no instructions from Gore) and located all the original equipment to accurately replicate the experiment as it was presented. Here’s the bill of materials and links to suppliers needed to replicate Al Gore’s experiment as it is shown in the Climate 101 video:

====================================================

BILL OF MATERIALS

QTY 2 Anchor Hocking Cookie Jar with Lid

http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodde.asp?SKU=187543

QTY2 Geratherm Oral Thermometer Non-Mercury http://www.pocketnurse.com/Geratherm-Oral-Thermometer-Non-Mercury/productinfo/06-74-5826/

QTY 2 Globe Coin Bank

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150661053386

QTY 2 Fluker`s Repta Clamp-Lamp with Ceramic Sockets for Terrariums (max 150 watts, 8 1/2 Inch Bulb) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fluker-s-Repta-Clamp-Lamp-150-watts-8-1-2-Inch-Bulb-/200663082632

QTY2 Zoo Med Red Infrared Heat Lamp 100W

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200594870618

QTY1 Empire – Pure Energy – Aluminum Co2 Tank – 20 oz

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190563856367

QTY 1 RAP4 In-Line On/Off Air Adapter

http://www.rap4.com/store/paintball/rap4-in-line-on-off-air-adapter

QTY 1 flexible clear plastic hose, 48″ in length, from local Lowes hardware to fit RAP4 In-Line On/Off Air Adapter above.

====================================================

Additionally, since Mr. Gore never actually proved that CO2 had been released from the CO2 paintball tank into one of the jars, I ordered a portable CO2 meter for just that purpose:

It has a CO2 metering accuracy of: ± 50ppm ±5% reading value. While not laboratory grade, it works well enough to prove the existence of elevated CO2 concentrations in one of the jars. It uses a non-dispersive infrared diffusion sensor (NDIR) which is self calibrating, which seems perfect for the job.

carbon dioxide temperature humidity monitorData Sheet

===================================================

Once I got all of the equipment in, the job was to do some testing to make sure it all worked. I also wanted to be sure the two oral thermometers were calibrated such they read identically. For that, I prepared a water bath to conduct that experiment.

CAVEAT: For those that value form over substance, yes these are not slick professionally edited videos like Mr. Gore presented. They aren’t intended to be. They ARE intended to be a complete, accurate, and most importantly unedited record of the experimental work I performed. Bear in mind that while Mr. Gore has million$ to hire professional studios and editors, all I have is a consumer grade video camera, my office and my wits. If I were still working in broadcast television, you can bet I would have done this in the TV studio.

==============================================================

STEP 1 Calibrate the Oral Thermometers

Here’s my first video showing how I calibrated the oral thermometers, which is very important if you want to have an accurate experimental result.

Note that the two thermometers read 98.1°F at the conclusion of the test, as shown in this screencap from my video @ about 5:35:

STEP 2 Calibrate the Infrared Thermometer

Since I plan to make use of an electronic Infrared thermometer in these experiments, I decided to calibrate it against the water bath also. Some folks may see this as unnecessary, since it is pre-calibrated, but I decided to do it anyway. It makes for interesting viewing

==============================================================

STEP 3 Demonstrate how glass blocks IR using  the Infrared Thermometer

The way an actual greenhouse works is by trapping infrared radiation. Glass is transparent to visible light, but not to infrared light, as we see below.

Image from: greenhousesonline.com.au

Mr. Gore was attempting to demonstrate this effect in his setup, but there’s an obvious problem: he used infrared heat lamps rather than visible light lamps. Thus, it seems highly likely that the glass jars would block the incoming infrared, and convert it to heat. That being the case, the infrared radiative backscattering effect that makes up the greenhouse effect in our atmosphere couldn’t possibly be demonstrated here in the Climate 101 video.

By itself, that would be enough to declare the experiment invalid, but not only will I show the problem of the experimental setup being flawed, I’ll go to full on replication.

Using the warm water bath and the infrared thermometer, it becomes easy to demonstrate this effect.

Since Mr. Gore’s experiment used infrared heat lamps illuminating two glass jars, I decided to test that as well:

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STEP 4 Replicating Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 video experiment exactly, using the same equipment – duration of 10 minutes

At 1:10 in the Climate 101 video narrator Bill Nye the science guy says:

Within minutes you will see the temperature of the bottle with the carbon dioxide in it rising faster and higher.

Since this is “simple high school physics” according to Mr. Gore, this should be a cinch to replicate. I took a “within minutes” from the narration to be just that, so I tried an experiment with 10 minutes of duration. I also explain the experimental setup and using the CO2 meter prove that CO2 is in fact injected into Jar “B”. My apologies for the rambling dialog, which wasn’t scripted, but explained as I went along. And, the camera work is one-handed while I’m speaking and setting up the experiment, so what it lacks in production quality it makes up in reality.

You’ll note that after 10 minutes, it appears there was no change in either thermometer. Also, remember these are ORAL thermometers, which hold the reading (so you can take it out of your mouth and hand it to mom and ask “can I stay home from school today”?). So for anyone concerned about the length of time after I turned off the lamps, don’t be. In order to reset the thermometers you have to shake them to force the liquid back down into the bulb.

Here’s the screencaps of the two thermometer readings from Jar A and B:

Clearly, 10 minutes isn’t enough time for the experiment to work. So let’s scratch off the idea from narration of “a few minutes” and go for a longer period:

RESULT: No change, no difference in temperature. Nothing near the 2°F rise shown in the video. Inconclusive.

==============================================================

STEP 5 Replicating Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 video experiment exactly, using the same equipment – duration of 30 minutes

Ok, identical setup as before, the only difference is time, the experiment runs 30 minutes long. I’ve added a digital timer you can watch as the experiment progresses.

And here are the screencaps from the video above of the results:

RESULT: slight rise and difference in temperature 97.4°F for Jar “A” Air, and 97.2°F for Jar “B” CO2. Nothing near the 2°F rise shown in the video.

==============================================================

STEP 6 Replicating Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 video experiment, using digital logging thermometer – duration of 30 minutes

In this experiment, I’m substituting the liquid in glass oral thermometers with some small self contained battery powered digital logging thermometers with LCD displays.

This model:

Details here

Specification Sheet / Manual

USB-2-LCD+ Temperature Datalogger

I used two identical units in the experiment replication:

And here are the results graphed by the application that comes with the datalogger. Red is Temperature, Blue is Humidity, Green is dewpoint

The graphs are automatically different vertical scales and thus can be a bit confusing, so I’ve take the raw data for each and graphed temperature only:

After watching my own video, I was concerned that maybe I was getting a bit of a direct line of the visible portion of the heat lamp into the sensor housing onto the thermistor, since they were turned on their side. So I ran the experiment again with the dataloggers mounted vertically in paper cups to ensure the thermistors were shielded from any direct radiation at any wavelength. See this video:

Both runs of the USB datalogger are graphed together below:

RESULTS:

Run 1 slight rise and difference in temperature 43.5°C for Jar “A” Air with Brief pulse to 44°C , and 43.0°C for Jar “B” CO2.

Run 2 had an ended with a 1°C difference, with plain air in Jar A being warmer than Jar “B with CO2.

Jar “A” Air temperature led Jar “B” CO2 during the entire experiment on both runs

The datalogger output files are available here:

JarA Air only run1.txt  JarB CO2 run1.txt

JarA Air only run2.txt JarB CO2 run2.txt

==============================================================

STEP 7 Replicating Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 video experiment exactly, using a high resolution NIST calibrated digital logging thermometer – duration of 30 minutes

In this experiment I use a high resolution (0.1F resolution) and NIST calibrated data logger with calibrated probes. Data was collected over my LAN to special software. This is the datalogger model:

Data sheet: Model E Series And the software used to log data is described here

Here’s the experiment:

I had to spend a lot of time waiting for the Jar “B” probe to come to parity with Jar “A” due to the cooling effect of the CO2 I introduced. As we all know, when a gas expands it cools, and that’s exactly what happens to CO2 released under pressure. You can see the effect early in the flat area of the graph below.

Here’s the end result screencap real-time graphing software used in the experiment, click the image to expand the graph full size.

RESULTS:

Peak value Jar A with air  was at 18:04 117.3°F

Peak value Jar B with CO2 was at 18:04 116.7°F

Once again, air led CO2 through the entire experiment.

Note that I allowed this experiment to go through a cool down after I turned off the Infrared heat lamps, which is the slope after the peak. Interestingly, while Jar “A” (probe1 in green) with Air, led Jar “B” (Probe 2 in red) with CO2, the positions reversed shortly after the lamps turned off.

The CO2 filled jar was now losing heat slower than the plain air jar, even though plain air Jar “A” had warmed slightly faster than the CO2 Jar “B”.

Here’s the datalogger output files for each probe:

Climate101-replication-Probe01-(JarA – Air).csv

Climate101-replication-Probe02-(JarB – CO2).csv

Climate101-replication-Probe03-(Ambient Air).csv

What could explain this reversal after the lamps were turned off? The answer is here at the Engineer’s Edge in the form of this table:

Heat Transfer Table of Content

This chart gives the thermal conductivity of gases as a function of temperature.

Unless otherwise noted, the values refer to a pressure of 100 kPa (1 bar) or to the saturation vapor pressure if that is less than 100 kPa.

The notation P = 0 indicates the low pressure limiting value is given. In general, the P = 0 and P = 100 kPa values differ by less than 1%.

Units are milliwatts per meter kelvin.

Note the values for Air and for CO2 that I highlighted in the 300K column. 300K is 80.3°F.

Air is a better conductor of heat than CO2.

==============================================================

So, here is what I think is going on with Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 experiment.

  1. As we know, the Climate101 video used infrared heat lamps
  2. The glass cookie jars chosen don’t allow the full measure of infrared from the lamps to enter the center of the jar and affect the gas. I showed this two different ways with the infrared camera in videos above.
  3. During the experiments, I showed the glass jars heating up using the infrared camera. Clearly they were absorbing the infrared energy from the lamps.
  4. The gases inside the jars, air and pure CO2 thus had to be heated by secondary heat emission from the glass as it was being heated. They were not absorbing infrared from the lamps, but rather heat from contact with the glass.
  5. Per the engineering table, air is a better conductor of heat than pure CO2, so it warms faster, and when the lamps are turned off, it cools faster.
  6. The difference value of 2°F shown in the Climate 101 video split screen was never met in any of the experiments I performed.
  7. The condition stated in the Climate 101 video of “Within minutes you will see the temperature of the bottle with the carbon dioxide in it rising faster and higher.” was not met in any of the experiments I performed. In fact it was exactly the opposite. Air consistently warmed faster than CO2.
  8. Thus, the experiment as designed by Mr. Gore does not show the greenhouse effect as we know it in our atmosphere, it does show how heat transfer works and differences in heat transfer rates with different substances, but nothing else.

Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 experiment is falsified, and could not work given the equipment he specified. If they actually tried to perform the experiment themselves, perhaps this is why they had to resort to stagecraft in the studio to fake the temperature rise on the split screen thermometers.

The experiment as presented by Al Gore and Bill Nye “the science guy” is a failure, and not representative of the greenhouse effect related to CO2 in our atmosphere. The video as presented, is not only faked in post production, the premise is also false and could never work with the equipment they demonstrated. Even with superior measurement equipment it doesn’t work, but more importantly, it couldn’t work as advertised.

The design failure was the glass cookie jar combined with infrared heat lamps.

Gore FAIL.

=============================================================

UPDATE: 4PM PST Some commenters are taking away far more than intended from this essay. Therefore I am repeating this caveat I posted in my first essay where I concentrated on the video editing and stagecraft issues:

I should make it clear that I’m not doubting that CO2 has a positive radiative heating effect in our atmosphere, due to LWIR re-radiation, that is well established by science. What I am saying is that Mr. Gore’s Climate Reality Project did a poor job of demonstrating an experiment, so poor in fact that they had to fabricate portions of the presentation, and that the experiment itself (if they actually did it, we can’t tell) would show a completely different physical mechanism than what actually occurs in our atmosphere.

No broader take away (other than the experiment was faked and fails) was intended, expressed or implied – Anthony

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April 29, 2014 7:42 am

With Lord Monckton as one’s source, I guess one can “prove” anything one likes, but he’s essentially a propagandist, not a careful analyst.
How about the World Meteorological Organization as a more credible source? Its average global temperatures by decade are as follows for the past four decades:
1971 – 1980: 13.95 C
1981 – 1990: 14.12 C
1991 – 2000: 14.26 C
2001 – 2010: 14.47 C
(WMO: The Global Climate 2001-2010: A Decade of Climate Extremes; Summary Report)
You do point to an issue that deserves everyone’s attention – the complexity of the climate and the mixture of “noise” and “signal.” Sometimes the “noise” from other sources will amplify a modest global warming “signal” and make it appear bigger than it really is; sometimes the “noise” from other sources will dampen a modest “signal” and make it appear smaller than it really is. But the presence of “noise” doesn’t disprove the presence of “signal.” The two phenomena coexist.
What you duck – in your comment above – is the functioning of the Earth’s natural cooling system. The Earth maintains “heat balance” when Energy OUT (in the infrared spectrum) fully offsets Energy IN (from the sun). The Earth is thrown out of “heat balance” when Energy OUT declines, even by modest amounts. What should we expect to be happening as a result of the Industrial Revolution in its current phase? Carbon dioxide is up 42% from its pre-industrial norm, and it’s presently rising 7 percentage points a decade.
As it happens, CO2 isn’t transparent in all wavelengths of infrared. It selectively intercepts infrared photons in a few wavelengths, and reduces the Earth’s ability to shed energy into space in those wavelengths. By boosting total carbon dioxide, steadily, day by day, we humans inherently interfere – in small but cumulative increments – with the Earth’s natural cooling system.
DBStealey, if you wish to argue – convincingly – that rising CO2 has no effect on the functioning of the Earth’s natural cooling system, you’ll have to base your argument on the laws of physics. You’ll have to show that you understand the operations of the Earth’s natural cooling system. And you’ll have to work forward from there.

April 29, 2014 8:25 am

Steve Johnson,
When someone starts off with an inaccurate ad hominem argument, we know they have already lost the debate. This is not about Lord Monckton. This is about Anthony’s debunking of Nye’s pseudo-science.
Next, when I stated that the WMO was emitting “noise”, I was referring to the nonsense that they can measure the global temperature to hundreths of a degree. Sorry I wasn’t more clear about what I meant about WMO noise. The WMO has an agenda. Satellite measurements contradict their narrative. You can believe the WMO. I prefer satellite data.
Next, there is no AGW “signal”. There is no testable scientific evidence measuring any human “fingerprint of global warming”. None at all. No such “signal” has ever been measured.
Next, the ‘energy out’ you refer to is LWIR, which has not increased as predicted. I am not bothering to link to a chart of LWIR, but it does not reflect what you claim. Next, you say:
Carbon dioxide is up 42% from its pre-industrial norm, and it’s presently rising 7 percentage points a decade.
So what? CO2 is simply not doing what was endlessly predicted. Any warming from CO2 is so minuscule that it is swamped my many other factors. See, global warming stopped more than 17 years ago. Where is your god now?
Next, you say: if you wish to argue – convincingly – that rising CO2 has no effect on the functioning of the Earth’s natural cooling system, you’ll have to base your argument on the laws of physics.
I do even better: I base my argument on empirical observations, which flatly debunk the endless failed predictions of climate calamity. You just cannot accept the fact that there is zero testable, measurable scientific evidence for AGW. You are still waiting for your global warming catastrophe.
You will never change your mind, because you cannot. CAGW is your religion. You have spent so much of your life trying to convince everyone of your belief system that it would trigger extreme cognitive dissonance if you admitted the truth: that Planet Earth has decisively falsified your True Belief.
Therefore, I cannot, as you say, argue “convincingly”, because there is no way to convince you of anything. A new Ice Age could appear, and glaciers could cover Chicago a mile deep again — but you would still be preaching catastrophic AGW.

RACookPE1978
Editor
April 29, 2014 8:51 am

Steve Johnson says:
April 29, 2014 at 7:42 am
(Replying to DBStealey, by attacking Lord Monckton personally …)

With Lord Monckton as one’s source, I guess one can “prove” anything one likes, but he’s essentially a propagandist, not a careful analyst.
How about the World Meteorological Organization as a more credible source? Its average global temperatures by decade are as follows for the past four decades:
1971 – 1980: 13.95 C
1981 – 1990: 14.12 C
1991 – 2000: 14.26 C
2001 – 2010: 14.47 C
(WMO: The Global Climate 2001-2010: A Decade of Climate Extremes; Summary Report)

Rather, let me correct your cherry-picked “impartial” source oh-so-slightly: This will show why your supposed “scientific” argument fails when you quote a World Organization whose sole funding in today’s politicaized world of “science” is warped by greed and envy for control of the world’s political power and physical energy.

“With the World Meteorological Organization as one’s source, I guess one can “prove” anything one likes, but they are only supporting those who fund their research, so they are merely paid propagandists, not impartial, nor even careful, analysts.
How about using WMO data more accurately? We are now halfway through 2014, 45% through the next decade AFTER your carefully picked “decades” of that old report! What are the WMO average global temperatures by decade for the following 10 year periods?

Just to be fair, I’ll even let YOU do the averaging!

1946 - 1956: _____ C?
1956 - 1966: _____ C?
1966 - 1976: _____ C?
1976 – 1986: _____ C?
1986 – 1996: _____ C?
1996 – 2006: _____ C?
2006 – 2014: _____ C?

Gee. That’s funny.
Same source of data. But while CO2 has constantly increased, look!
Since 1966, ten-year global temperature averages from the WMO have become MORE stable and have increased LESS the more CO2 has been added to the atmosphere!
CO2 has risen dramatically for sixty years now, and look! Temperatures have fallen, or been steady, for more decades, for more years, than they have risen!

May 5, 2014 5:30 pm

I’ll reply both to dbstealey and to RACookPE1978. It’s not clear to me that either of you can explain the physics of the Earth’s natural cooling system. That’s not unusual – our culture is so careless with ideas there’s probably not one person in a hundred, on either side of the global warming debate, who can actually describe the essential physics of the Earth’s natural cooling system.
There’s a second point. One cannot weigh this issue properly unless one is able to distinguish between “noise” and “signal.” The Earth’s climate system is driven by a great many variables, and it’s capable of producing quite an assortment of “noisy” behaviors, which at any given time can either mask a global warming signal, making it seem smaller than it really is, or amplify it, making it seem larger than it really is.
So – if one sees less “signal” than one expects, what is one to conclude? That AGW doesn’t exist? Or that there’s unexpectedly strong “noise” – hiding the presence of a real signal?
Let’s step back a bit, to the higher level public question. Are fossil fuels provably safe? Can we know, for certain, that the endless consumption of fossil fuels will cause no serious damage? No serious damage to the global climate? No serious damage to the health of the world’s oceans?
If you’re not able to describe, accurately, the functioning of the Earth’s natural cooling system, you probably won’t be able to give a credible opinion on the issue of fossil fuel safety.
And if you’re not reach to weigh the issue of “noise” and “signal,” you’re also not ready to sort out the question of whether fossil fuels are safe, in perpetuity, as our fuel of choice.
We live in a cause-and-effect world. We also live in a culture of hasty certainties. Reach conclusions however you like, but if your conclusions are driven by your favorite hasty certainties, there’s always a possibility that your conclusions won’t properly reflect the cause-and-effect realities of the world in which we live.
So. I would love to have you refute my views by explaining carefully and fully just how the Earth’s natural cooling system actually operates.

RACookPE1978
Editor
May 5, 2014 6:18 pm

Steve Johnson says:
May 5, 2014 at 5:30 pm
I’ll reply both to dbstealey and to RACookPE1978. It’s not clear to me that either of you can explain the physics of the Earth’s natural cooling system. … So – if one sees less “signal” than one expects, what is one to conclude? That AGW doesn’t exist? Or that there’s unexpectedly strong “noise” – hiding the presence of a real signal?
Let’s step back a bit, to the higher level public question. Are fossil fuels provably safe? Can we know, for certain, that the endless consumption of fossil fuels will cause no serious damage? No serious damage to the global climate? No serious damage to the health of the world’s oceans?

Cooling system? Ultimately, radiative cooling to space.
Now, let’s examine your “assumption” – rather “requirement” that man’s use of fossil fuel must be restricted as an insurance policy – debunking the “precautionary principle” actually.
Now, man’s use of fossil fuel this year creates wealth, creates health, happiness, warmth and shelter from the harsh deadly environment (where needed) and coolness and shelter from the deadly environment (where needed.) Man’s use of fossil fuel saves food, grows food, fertilizes food, irrigates food, stores it against insect and animal damage, preserves it, and plants it for next year. Man’s use of fossil fuel transports fuel, itself, food, clothing and shelter and water and all of the things we need in life every hour of every day. Are you going to dispute these “inconvenient facts”?
Thus, man’s use of fossil fuel today, last year, last decade, and every decade going back to the 1810’s is beneficial to mankind.
Man’s use of fossil fuel for the next 85 years (through 2100) will be necessary to continue to save lives, preserve food and fuel and lives, and to allow people to live. YOUR requirement that we curtail fossil fuel use as a “precaution” against “potential harm” (of some unknown but exaggerated “probability” of harm on some unknown but exaggerated numbers of people at some unknown but exaggerated cost to save some unknown but exaggerated prices) IS GOING TO KILL billions and cost billions more trillions of dollars.
With no benefits to any but the “elite” who have killed the innocent in their greed and hatred of life.

May 6, 2014 5:15 pm

Like other folks, we Americans aren’t comfortable with ambiguity. If fossil fuels are “good” they can’t also be “bad.” If fossil fuels are “bad” they can’t also be good.
I have a real affection for fossil fuels. They’ve been a real boon to human progress over the last two centuries and more. And the jobs that bring them to us are heroic – is there a more romantic job than coal mining? Or working on an oil rig?
But you exaggerate their irreplaceability. Some day they’ll run out, and some day our descendants will figure out a host of perfectly good replacements. Here in America, we consume about 57 terawatt-hours a day worth of energy, mostly from fossil fuels, but we also receive about 50,000 terawatt-hours a day worth of ambient sunshine. Were we to capture and harness but a thousandth of America’s ambient solar energy, we’d have all the energy we need for a prosperous modern society. It’s odd that you have so much faith in fossil fuels and so little faith in humanity’s ability to innovate and discover replacements.
I worked for Cummins for two years, at a plant that made diesel engines. Some of the world’s best. When I was there, I was in on the early part of a paradigm shift away from corrective action quality and just in case inventory. Those habits were replaced with preventive quality and just in time inventory, and the plant today is far more robust than it was twenty-five years ago. But Cummins wasn’t a unique example of using dramatic paradigm shifts to make progress – humans will always have an enormous ability to find new and better ways of doing things.
I’m pushing for an end to fossil fuels partly because I trust the human ability to innovate. I’ve been in it; I’ve been part of it; I’ve seen it; it’s exciting and it’s a capacity we’ll always have.
I’m also pushing for an end to fossil fuels for three major reasons. Irreversibility. Accumulating Damage. Uncompensability.
At present, we have no way to get rid of excess carbon dioxide. If we wake up one day and realize that burning fossil fuels was a terrible mistake, we’ll be stuck. I wish it weren’t true.
The dangers of global warming are predictable. The dangers of climate change are not predictable. Small changes in temperature can create significant changes in climate behavior. Why are the pine forests of the Colorado Rockies and the Glacier National Park now dead? The winters were too warm to kill pine beetles. And now – the pine beetles have killed the pine forests. Just in the last six years or so. Climate change is real – go to Glacier. See for yourself.
Who would have expected the most powerful typhoon ever to hit the Philippines? But it did. Because climate shifts are more dramatic than temperature shifts. Pump CO2 into the atmosphere at full speed for a few more decades, and the ice sheets on Greenland and West Antarctica will be yesterday’s toast. Sea levels will rise by forty feet. The Naval Academy campus will be under water. The Smithsonian will be under water. No, those dangers aren’t a hundred percent certain, but their probability level is much higher than the probabilities contained in your denials.
And uncompensability. None of the folks who get rich from selling fossil fuels will ever be compelled to pay a nickel’s worth of damages to those they harm. If you live next door to me and set a fire in your backyard that spreads to my back yard and burns down my house, I’ll be able to get satisfaction from your insurance company. Will the same thing be possible for victims of climate change? Heck, no. No one harmed by climate change will get anything from Exxon or BP or from Chevron.
Irreversibility. Accumulating Danger. Uncompensability. Three excellent reasons for finding ourselves a safer and smarter energy future. We human beings are more than smart enough to figure out a safe energy future for ourselves.
I’ve been through a paradigm shift that worked amazingly well. We humans have far more possibilities than you give us credit for. And there are more of us than you may realize with a capacity for ambiguity.

dynam01
June 10, 2014 5:37 am

All IPCC reports should feature the “DRAMATIZATION” disclaimer. My guess is that a thermometer with a lighter 1″ away shows more warming than one with the lighter 2″ away.

Barry
June 26, 2014 8:35 pm

There are 2 live examples in our solar system , MARS AND VENUS both have almost the same atmosphere around 95%-96% c02 , both have extreme climates . The only difference is the distance the sun , temps on Venus =approx 480c Mars -AVERAGE -81c .. . c02 is used to make dry ice not power stoves . Hang 2 plastic or paper bags in the sun 6ft off the ground , one with c02 one without . THE C02 ONE WILL RETURN A LOWER TEMP EVERY TIME . http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/profile.cfm?Object=Venus http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/allaboutmars/facts/ Notice on Nasa THE C02 is so small it is not even mentioned in our stats , impossible to be the blame for the climate . Being chaotic theory it would be impossible to measure all the c02 in oceans and atmosphere even more so separating the 3% of 0.04% . Yet they want to charge us 100% of climate changes or global warming or whatever con they come up with . 1 tonne of c02 =only 1/3 of a tonne of c02 given 2 parts are oxygen and only 1 part carbon atoms .

June 27, 2014 5:31 am

since CO2 is so small “it is not even mentioned in our stats, impossible to be the blame for the climate.” The question to ask yourself is: “How does the Earth’s natural cooling system work?” The Earth has to shed just as much energy as it receives, or it would get hotter and hotter. How does it shed its energy? By radiating it into space in the infrared spectrum. Colder regions radiate long wavelength infrared, warmer regions radiate shorter wavelength infrared. If the entire atmosphere were entirely transparent to all wavelengths of infrared, all the Earth’s infrared photons would have an easy journey into space. Most of the atmosphere is transparent – the nitrogen, the oxygen, and the argon. But H2O gases aren’t entirely transparent. CO2 gases aren’t transparent to al wavelengths of IR. Methane gases aren’t transparent to IR in a number of wavelengths. And so on. It’s the non-transparent gases that reduce the amount of IR that escapes into space. What matters, then, is whether the total amount of non-transparent gases are constant, fluctuating, steadily falling, or steadily rising.
If the Earth’s ability to radiate IR into space is reduced by a rise in nontransparent gases, the retained IR will cause the Earth to get warmer. As it warms, it will produce more IR across the entire IR spectrum. As it produces more IR in the transparent parts of the spectrum, and sends more IR into space, its natural cooling system will have brought things back into balance. Solar IN will be fully offset by IR OUT and the Earth’s average temperature will stabilize. At a slightly higher temperature, associated with a slightly higher concentration of non-transparent gases.
Comparing concentrations of a non-transparent gas like CO2 with the concentrations of fully transparent gases like nitrogen and oxygen is an instinctive reaction, but it misreads the key role of non-transparent gases in the behavior of the Earth’s natural cooling system.

Keith J
July 1, 2014 6:22 am

The air you used contains water vapor, over 6000 ppm by mass. Water vapor is a much stronger ghg than carbon dioxide. The carbon dioxide used is pure, displacing water vapor.
Water vapor is the primary ghg in the atmosphere, it also transports huge amounts of thermal energy from the surface to the lower condensation level, circumventing sensible temperature measurement because of latent heat.

Keith J
July 1, 2014 8:12 am

Sure, glass absorbs ir, but so do most hydrocarbon based polymers. To accurately perform these experiments, salt windows would be the most useful. The transparency of salt to ir has been known for over 150 years, see Tyndall’s work.
The salt can be ordinary sodium chloride or many other halide metal salts. Silver chloride is used in FTIR spectrometry liquid/gas cells while potassium bromide is used for solid samples to press a matrix window.
The lack of solid physics and chemistry laboratory methods in AGW research makes me sick.

Stuart
July 4, 2014 5:32 am

Johnson – I applaud your efforts here Steve, especially your points about human ability to innovate. It is disturbing how many people can’t accept what is so plainly happening around us. While healthy skepticism is critical to science, these people hold onto their beliefs with the fervor of a religious belief.

Stuart
July 4, 2014 5:46 am

@Kieth J – I hope you don’t take this little demonstration to represent the the level of science that has gone into the climate research. Of course the scientists know about IR, anyone in second year college chemistry has used KBr to run IR spectra. The issue with water vapor and CO2 is the specific wavelengths they absorb at – water vapor leaves a “window” of wavelengths open for radiation to pass through while the CO2 absorbs in this region, so even a small amount of CO2 begins to close this “window.”

July 4, 2014 7:51 am

Hi Stuart, everyone –
I don’t think I’d characterize the IR issue in quite this way. Here’s my understanding. The Earth’s natural cooling system makes use of the entire IR spectrum to shed as much energy back into space as the Earth receives from the sun. When Energy OUT is equal to Energy IN, the overall temperature of the Earth remains stable. As I understand it, the spectrum runs from wavelengths of 3 microns or less all the way up to 50 microns. Warmer regions radiate short wavelength IR into space, cooler regions radiate longer wavelength IR into space.
Anything that boosts the amount of greenhouse gas in the atmosphere is likely to reduce the ability of IR to escape into space – not across the board, but only in those wavelengths affected by the addition of new greenhouse gases. More carbon dioxide will affect IR in the 15 micron range and a few other wavelengths. More water vapor will affect IR in other wavelengths.
As the daily amount of Energy OUT falls below the daily amount of Energy IN, the Earth is likely to warm. A warming Earth will generate increasing amounts of IR at almost all wavelengths. In those wavelengths restricted by greenhouse gases, IR OUT barely rises. In wavelengths that are more transparent, IR OUT will rise by greater amounts. Energy OUT again equals Energy IN, because the Earth’s higher temperature compensates for the Earth’s higher concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.
If CO2 were to stop rising, the Earth’s temperature would find a new equilibrium – at a warmer but stable average temperature. Should CO2 continues to rise, though, the Earth will be forced to get warmer, and still warmer, in its pursuit of a new equilibrium.
I hope I’ve described this clearly enough.

Keith J
July 5, 2014 12:43 pm

The amount of energy retained by additional carbon dioxide is trivial when looking at stratosphere and beyond. More interesting are noctilucent clouds and post stratopause atmospheric dynamics. What injects water vapor into the mesosphere? Strong thunderstorms? Superheated pockets from sprites? Very difficult to say since this is the realm of sounding rockets for data. Regardless, we can assume that these clouds are a heat rejection mechanism sine they appear in the hemispherical summer when insolation is maximum. And these clouds have become more apparent with rising carbon dioxide levels. Another negative feedback since the mesosphere is like the troposphere with respect to a lapse rate.

July 5, 2014 2:09 pm

Keith J says, “The amount of energy retained by additional carbon dioxide is trivial when looking at stratosphere and beyond.” That sounds like a hypothesis, rather than a proven fact. But it does point to a key issue in our search for understanding – the distinction between signal and noise.
Rising levels of carbon dioxide, or water vapor, or methane, or any other greenhouse gas, will trap rising amounts of heat, said by climate scientists to be equal to about 2 Celsius per century, or one eighteen-thousandths of a degree per day. Whatever the realistic estimate is, let’s call the heat increase that results from rising GHGs the “signal” that we’re interested in.
But what will scientists measure, when they measure temperatures at thousands of monitoring stations around the globe? Signal only? Or signal and noise? Obviously the second. Other factors will also shape the Earth’s temperature. El Nino periods raise the temperature and amplify the apparent amount of warming. La Nina periods reduce the temperature and depress the apparent amount of warming. Some types of clouds reflect sunshine back into space, and therefore depress the amount of warming; other types of clouds retain even more infrared and therefore amplify the amount of warming.
Your hypothesis is that the “noise” of clouds will always have an effect that’s as strong, or stronger, than the “signal” of retained heat and its effect on the Earth’s overall store of heat. Even if this turns out to be an accurate hypothesis, it doesn’t disprove the presence of heating as a genuine signal; instead it proves the presence of reflectivity as a separate and dampening signal.
It is very difficult to discuss this accurately if we fail to acknowledge the distinction between signal and noise. Temperature readings will always combine the two. But – if we are thoughtful about this – we’ll be cautious in both directions. Just as amplifying noise doesn’t prove that the global warming signal is as strong as it might seem to be, the presence of dampening noise doesn’t prove that the signal of global warming is as weak as it may seem to be.
For that matter, we won’t rely solely on thermometers to assess the presence, or absence, of a heating signal. We’ll also look at physical evidence of all kinds, from all parts of the globe, to see if there is evidence of a directional trend. It’s a complex world we live in. A careful respect for hypotheses calls us to be cautious as we move from hypothesis to conclusion, and calls us to be cautious as we move from conclusion to judgment. If our conclusions are drawn too hastily, we will almost always overlook important sources of evidence.

Daniel Dewey
July 8, 2014 9:11 pm

So you never just took lids off to do the actual experiment? I’m guessing that would hurt your blog too much.
Yes their video sucked because they took the easy way out knowing how scientifically illiterate and distracted a modern audience is. That doesn’t change the well documented evidence that CO2 is a strong absorber of IR,
http://webbook.nist.gov/cgi/cbook.cgi?ID=C124389&Type=IR-SPEC&Index=1#IR-SPEC

Doug
July 15, 2014 7:40 am

Experiments are part of science. The producers of this video must be held to scientific standards. If a result is not reproducible with the exact equipment and methodology used, it is falsified. In common parlance, that is known as lying. There is no excuse, up to and including ‘We knew it was going to work because it is well established science, so we faked it.’
Once again, we the public are not enabled in our assessment of the magnitude of the CO2 absorption strength even though I doubt any serious scientist doubts that there is *some* effect in a jar or in the atmosphere. Please define some. In this case the experiment ironically demonstrates thermal conductivity.
The irony derives from there being many complex mechanisms contributing to climate change of any type, including well known changes in the large ongoing thermonuclear explosion in the sky.
Will somebody please demonstrate (not photoshopped, not IPCC) beyond healthy (not excessive) levels of scientific scepticism what the *strength* of the CO2 warming effect is in our atmosphere.

July 15, 2014 7:47 pm

The question to start with is how the Earth’s natural cooling system is affected by a rising amount of atmospheric CO2. Dogs cool themselves by panting, cars cool themselves with radiators and fans, humans cool themselves by sweating, and the Earth cools itself by radiating infrared energy into space. Total energy radiated into space has to equal total energy received from the sun if the Earth isn’t to get warmer.
If something interferes with the amount of infrared escaping into space in a portion of the IR spectrum, the rest of the spectrum eventually has to compensate by radiating even more IR energy into space. For this to happen, the Earth has to warm in order that more energy will be generated across the rest of the spectrum.
Does carbon dioxide interfere with outbound IR? In most wavelengths, no. But at the 15 micron wavelength, yes. Satellite measurements of IR strengths at varying wavelengths show less IR strength at 15 microns than in neighboring wavelengths. As CO2 concentrations rise, the suppression of IR energy increases at the 15 micron wavelength. When IR Energy OUT falls below Solar Energy IN, the Earth warms. As it warms, IR Energy OUT in other wavelengths will increase.
This dynamic would bring the Earth’s temperature back into balance if the CO2 concentration weren’t continuing to rise. But endless burning of fossil fuels produces an endless increase in CO2, and therefore causes an increasing shrinkage in the amount of IR sent into space at the 15 micron wavelength.
What will happen to your dog on a hot day if you tape his mouth shut? What will happen to your car if its radiator loses coolant? What will happen to the Earth if the atmosphere becomes increasingly opaque to IR photons at some wavelengths? Cooling systems matter for planets as much as they do for pets and cars.

Jim south lodon
July 28, 2014 3:37 am

What was the name of the kid who was killed by the bottle of compressed CO2 gas His parents could well bring a court action against Al Gore

August 3, 2014 8:32 am

I’ve been making the case that that experiment should be required in every high school science class for years. I am so glad to see that you have made this video. I would recommend that everyone forward on a link to a science teacher in your school district and challenge them to perform it, and send it to a local Tea Party to use in their political activities. I would also suggest repeating this experiment to measure the change in pH of ocean water. The next claim is that CO2 causes ocean acidification.
I would also suggest some changes to this experiment:
1) Global warming is a misnomer, what the GHG effect does is trap OUTGOING, not INCOMING heat as Al Gore’s experiment does. In reality the GHG effect is basically meaningless during the daytime as visible light warms the oceans and land. CO2 is transparent to visible light.
2) The Earth emits IR consistent with a black body temp of around 30 degree C, or 10 microns.
http://www.spectralcalc.com/blackbody_calculator/blackbody.php
3) Most of the earth is Water, and for the most point, the oceans are the heat sinks of the world. Water stores heat much better than sand, dirt and grass.
4) To replicate the real world the IR lamp should be replaced by hot or warm water, placed within an insulated aquarium with a glass or cellophane top. Warm the water up to 50 degree C in both tanks. Fill one tank not with pure CO2, but with amounts varying around 400 PPM. Venus proves a pure CO2 environment can trap a lot of heat. CO2 traps more heat than a vacuum or O2. We aren’t modeling Venus, we are modeling the earth. Do the experiment with 450 PPM, 500 PPM, 550 PPM, 600 PPM, 650PPM…2000 PPM.
6) Cool the external room to night time temperatures, and have a small slow fan in the aquarium to simulate the convection currents in the atmosphere that help export the hot air to the outer atmosphere where is can release its heat to outer space, in this case, the cooler room.
5) Measure the temperature drop over the time span of one night. Remember, once day begins, visible light starts the warming all over again. To prove the GHG effect is warming the earth, you have to prove that it is trapping heat over night, so the day starts at a warmer point than would have been.
6) Collect data to see if higher levels of CO2 result in slower cooling of the atmosphere and oceans.
7) If the water remains hotter in the high CO2 level aquarium, then Al Gore has a point. If not, Al Gore is wrong.
This pH experiment can also be run simultaneously by simply measuring the pH of the water. A slow rocker mechanism may be placed in the water to simulate ocean waves and current.
Bottom line, the most people know about the basic science behind AGW, the less they will believe in it.

August 3, 2014 1:23 pm

“CO2 is Life” only partly understands the core scientific principles at stake. The place to begin thinking about this is with the concept of heat balance and the Earth’s natural cooling system.
For the Earth to maintain a stable temperature over time, its cooling system has to work effectively. It has to shed heat as rapidly as it receives heat. Energy OUT has to be just as strong as Energy IN.
Energy IN from the sun arrives in a fairly tight part of the spectrum, from ultraviolet through visible light thru high energy IR. In rough terms, if memory serves, from 0.3 microns up to 2 microns or so. Visible light and high energy IR, mostly.
Energy OUT from the Earth’s atmosphere, into space, departs solely in the form of IR energy, covering a spectrum from roughly 3 microns to roughly 50 microns in wavelength.
Because the Earth is warmer than absolute zero by quite a bit, all parts of the Earth generate IR energy continually. Cooler areas generate longer wavelength IR, hotter areas generate shorter wavelength IR.
Basically, the entire IR spectrum is brought into play, 24 hours a day. It’s inaccurate to suggest that it isn’t functioning during the daytime. During the daytime, the Earth is hotter and its IR output is therefore stronger. As it cools on the night side, its IR output falls off a bit. What matters is that total energy sent into space, from the shortest IR band to the longest, 24 hours a day, ends up equaling total energy received from the sun. That’s how the Earth maintains heat balance.
Greenhouse gases like CO2, or water vapor, or methane, along with a number of others, operate as filters in certain wavelengths. CO2 significantly dampens the Earth’s IR output at the 15 micron wavelength, and the greater the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere, the greater its dampening effect.
Suppose – as a thought experiment – that Energy OUT falls below Energy IN by, oh, three tenths of a percent. The Earth’s natural cooling system loses just a bit of its efficiency as a result of greater CO2 accumulations – and other accumulations – in the atmosphere. What has to happen for heat balance to be restored? For Energy OUT to rise again, so that it fully offsets Energy IN, the way it’s supposed to? The Earth has to get hotter. Just as a hotter asphalt parking lot blasts me with more IR on a hot summer day than a cold parking lot, a slightly warmer Earth generates a little more IR across its entire IR spectrum till things are back in balance, till Energy OUT is once again back in sync with Energy IN.
As GHGs accumulate, the filtered parts of the IR spectrum see a decline in their ability to pass IR energy into space. The unfiltered parts of the IR spectrum therefore have to see a rise in the total IR energy they transmit into space.
It would be nice if we had a meter that showed us all these moving parts at the same time. Total Energy IN from the sun ever day. And Energy OUT, from the IR spectrum, subtotals by each IR wavelength, and the Grand Total for the entire IR spectrum. Then we’d see some bands declining, over time, as GHG concentrations rise. We’d see other bands showing rising output, to reflect the slow warming of the Earth. Combine those subtotals and we’d see total Energy OUT doing its best to keep pace with total Energy IN.
The Earth’s natural cooling system. It’s pretty interesting. Gore isn’t particularly good at explaining it, but then who is?

Reply to  Steve Johnson
March 22, 2015 4:02 pm

“Basically, the entire IR spectrum is brought into play, 24 hours a day. It’s inaccurate to suggest that it isn’t functioning during the daytime. During the daytime, the Earth is hotter and its IR output is therefore stronger. As it cools on the night side, its IR output falls off a bit. What matters is that total energy sent into space, from the shortest IR band to the longest, 24 hours a day, ends up equaling total energy received from the sun. That’s how the Earth maintains heat balance.”
Simply watch a thermometer once the sun comes up. Incoming radiation makes the outgoing IR irrelevant during the day. Incoming radiation has n^10 more energy than the outgoing radiation. CO2 absorbs radiation at 15 micrometers, or -80 degree C for a black body. You can trap all the “heat” you want at -80 degree C and you won’t be warming the earth one iota. Just look at the temperature of the South Pole. It is the best proxy for CO2 driven heat trapping, all the H2O has been removed from the air. CO2 has increased since the 50’s, but the temperature of the S Pole remains basically unchanged.
Also, CO2 has been 7000 PPM and temperatures never got above 22 degree C, we fell into an ice age with CO2 at 4000 PPM. Simply do simple statistical analysis on the Holocene period. There is absolutely nothing abnormal about the past 50 and 150 years, either with the variation or max and min. We are all well within the norm of the past 12,000 years. CO2 is at a peak, but there are multiple peaks all above where we are today, and the variations are much greater in the past as well. CO2 simply doesn’t cause much difference according to the data.
Lastly, the oceans are warming. IR doesn’t warm the oceans, especially the deep oceans. Clearly the sun is warming the oceans, and the oceans are warming the atmosphere. Understand why the oceans are warming and you will understand why the atmosphere is warming, and it has nothing to do with CO2.

Reply to  CO2 is Life
March 23, 2015 5:40 pm

Three interesting issues here.
First, is the 15 micron absorption band of CO2 going to stop the sort of infrared photons that the Earth will generate, or only the photons to be generated from the South Pole. Take a look at the Wikipedia article on “infrared.” Here’s what it says about long wavelength infrared, from 8 to 15 microns: The “thermal imaging” region, in which sensors can obtain a completely passive image of objects only slightly higher in temperature than room temperature – for example, the human body – based on thermal emissions only…
Sounds pretty authoritative to me. This article also describes infrared in the 3 to 8 micron range as
emitted by objects well above body temperature.
Second, Holocene concentrations of CO2. Look here, http://www.grida.no/publications/other/ipcc_tar/?src=/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/fig3-2.htm, for some useful charts. Holocene refers to the most recent 12,000 years. Chart (e) shows CO2 concentrations going back 25 million years before the present. They’re generally below 300 PPM. Chart (d) from the Vostok ice core shows CO2 concentrations going back 400,000 years before the present. CO2 swings up and down in a range of 180 PPM to 280 PPM. The idea that we have had Holocene concentrations of 4000 ppm cannot be substantiated. Between Greenland and Antarctica there have been 30 or so ice cores removed and analyzed; the CO2 conclusions drawn from them don’t seem to be in debate. Where we are today is well above where we have been in the last 400 thousand years.
Third, why do ice ages happen? Is CO2 responsible? I hadn’t suggested it was. The reading I’ve done makes two main arguments. The larger point is that the Earth didn’t start getting ice ages as we know them until there was a continent at the South Pole and a trapped ocean at the North Pole. These two factors make the Earth more susceptible to ice ages. These tectonic changes are said to have occurred within the last 40 million years or so.
The more particular point is that glacial periods are triggered by what are called the Milankovitch cycles, by the variations in the Earth’s orbit around the sun. When the ellipticality cycle is at its most extreme, and when the northern hemisphere’s winter solstice occurs at the aphelion of the Earth’s orbit, the conditions for an ice age are quite strong. When the elliptically cycle is at its most mild, and the winter solstice occurs very near the perihelion of the earth’s orbit, the conditions for an inter-glacial period are the strongest.
Let’s go back to the question of what warms the Earth. I think I was understood as saying that infrared energy warms the Earth. And then the disagreement was that solar energy is way stronger than infrared energy.
The argument I made was that infrared cools the Earth, and it does this by escaping into space. When the total amount of daily energy that escapes into space isn’t quite as large as the total amount of solar energy that arrives from the sun, there will be a small increment of retained heat – heat that’s in the oceans, because the sun put it there, or heat that’s been absorbed by the lands, because they too soak up the sun’s heat. It’s a tiny amount, on a daily basis, perhaps one eighteen-thousandth of a degree per day, on average. When the Earth is warmed by the sun, but can’t shed all the extra warmth it receives because the stream of infrared flowing into space gets interrupted by more CO2 (and more H2O as well), it slowly gets warmer not because of the infrared bouncing back and making us hot, but because the sun made the Earth hotter and the infrared that needed to carry that extra heat away wasn’t able to. This is absolutely the key point in the whole discussion. To misread it as a assertion that the infrared bouncing back to the Earth is the cause of our warming is to, well, give too much credence to the way Al Gore & others have partially misstated the mechanism that generates global warming.
I appreciate the back and forth. I’ve been pushed to double check some of my assumptions. Always valuable.

Reply to  Steve Johnson
March 22, 2015 4:13 pm

“During the daytime, the Earth is hotter and its IR output is therefore stronger. ”
CO2 doesn’t absorb at the hotter wavelengths of IR, CO2’s main absorption is at 15 micrometers, and then at 4.3 and 2.7. 15 micrometers is consistent with a -80 degree C black body. The earth emits at 10 micrometers.

Fred Laun
August 11, 2014 3:22 pm

“The Earth receives approximately 2.9 million terawatt-hours worth of energy from the sun every day. This energy arrives in the UV, visible light, and very short IR spectrum.”
My college degree says I’m a “political scientist” but as a very active ham radio operator for more than 60 years, I’m wondering why the quotation above doesn’t take into account the geomagnetic energy that the sun sends our way every day in greatly varying amounts. This form of energy certainly affects the capability of ham radio operators to communicate with hams in the rest of the world, and on occasion has affected critical measures of human well-being, such as the time when much of Quebec’s electricity grid was knocked offline by a solar storm. My question is, why hasn’t this form of solar energy been taken into account in the IPCC models?

August 11, 2014 7:35 pm

That’s an interesting question. My college degree says I’m a history major and my hobbies don’t include ham radio, so you’re more alert to this than I. I do know that the modelers try to track lots of minor factors, including low density greenhouse gases, soot, etc, not just CO2. If routine solar wind is known to have an effect – either on incoming sunlight or outbound IR – I imagine it does get modeled, but frankly I can’t recall reading any articles that discuss it.
Isn’t the main issue with solar storms rather more instantaneous, that the most powerful ones would – if they hit the Earth square on – fry our electronics? My impression is that they are like tsunamis from space – sudden, unexpected, and with a capacity to cause terrible damage.

DrSamHerman
August 25, 2014 8:31 pm

My forty years of medical practice in psychiatry, neurology and my PhD in neurobiology tell me that most climate scientists know very little about the adaptability of microfauna that exists in every possible biological niche on, above and blow the surface of the earth. What I see with climate scientists is that they did not bother figuring how each biological niche will be exploited to some extent by those microfauna and the extent of the role they play beyond being potential human pathogens in terms of a dynamical system like earth’s multiple environments. If there is one thing that has always found a way to persist on earth, it is life in all of its forms at some moment or another.
The idea of “consensus” making good science is absolutely abhorrent to me as a physician. We use consensus in making medical treatment guidelines, but we have so far been proven more wrong than right in such basic areas as cardiovascular medicine, infectious diseases (apparently climate scientists never heard of the old consensus that no new antibiotics were needed–something which nature told us no so politely that we were wrong), nutrition (the role of different vitamins and their clinical utility has changed dramatically)–and all of these clinical decisions were made based on consensus to a large extent. For that reason alone, the idea of consensus in science, which betrays its fundamental nature of doubt and skepticism as the primary drivers of new inquiry and experimentation, is ludicrous. What is even more ludicrous is the over-reliance on mathematical modeling which has always suffered from the GIGO effect.
It’s not like politics have not invaded science before with disastrous results, and unfortunately I just don’t agree that the current climate science research model is sustainable unless it starts to produce results. We have seen that alternative energy sourcing is expensive and is not commercially viable without massive subsidies. We have also seen that most people just don’t buy global warming because it sounds like too much hokum coming from the same doom and gloom prophesies which have failed so many times. Were we not supposed to see our coastlines already inundated? Funny how that has not happened. Funny how the severity of tropical storms this season has not panned out to the doom and gloom soothsayers’ predictions. Americans are not scientifically illiterate as most climate scientists would like to crow about, but instead they are loathe to commit so many resources to a hypothesis that most of them doubt, especially in a time when their own finances and that of their government are so precarious.
And spare us the political claptrap. There are believers on both sides, it’s just that climate scientists have not really done a good job of selling their hypothesis into the public forum. The government of Australia tried and failed. Likely they are a harbinger of what to expect with Americans when they are told by private jet billionaires that they must cut back.

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