Robert B. writes via email with a question that we’ve just never asked readers to weigh in on here before in post, though has been bandied about in comments. I figure it is about time to put it to rest by asking up front.
He asks:
What is the perfect temperature of Earth? I’m assuming that climate change-related taxes will be used to bring our planet back to the perfect temperature, and I need to know when that has been reached.
Steven Mosher says:
March 7, 2014 at 7:59 pm
Its 15C today. our civilization has developed over a period where this ranged from perhaps 13.5 to 17C.
So that range has proven to be good. trying to optimize this ( what is perfect) would be a fools errand. Never let the perfect be the enemy of the good. 13.5C to 17C has been pretty good.
Knowing that, who but a fool would want to risk going above 17C. There be dragons.
So, a 17C cap makes some sense. As a good engineer we are are going to want some buffer around this.. so 16.5 C.. dont do anything that has a chance of taking us above this line.
Dont burn all the coal, switch to gas until we understand the problem better.
So “what is the perfect temperature? well a temperature that our civilization has experienced would be a good start.. keep things around there.
+++++++++++++
There’s something in the language that I find a bit too socialist, dangerous and offensive to me. Forcing the world to act in such a way until “we understand the problem…” and to “…keep things around there” presumes that we can and should control people in an attempt to control something that’s uncontrollable based on all evidence. If you want to do a rain dance to get rain – by all means do it. For all I’ve seen the rain dance would be more effective than what CAGW climate scientists are telling us to do. But don’t tread on me and the lives of free people with this nonsense (as it has been applied to the argument of climate science) precautionary principle.
Perfect for what? To maximise the amount of vegetation? Define perfect. If you are going to say for human survival then don’t bother – we can survive in any temperature that the planet might reach within the next million years.
Adam not exactly right. Inuits like the ancient Neaderthals lived well on a diet of protein and blubber, very little carbohydrate, until introduced to a western carbohydrate rich diet. Most of us can not live well in a cold climate like the Arctic and Antarctic on a diet like this. Nor can we change our bodies overnight to adapt to a different metabolism. So another glacial period would affect crops and pastures for stock, and that spells zero population growth, energy restrictions or starvation. Or move to the Southern Hemisphere and enjoy kangaroo meat.
Many orchids would not like that daily watering, not unless other factors are near ideal.
High humidity is somewhat critical, but most will tolerate brief low humidity periods. Some lithophytic laelias and cattleyas are flooded at night when dew coalesces into runoff; during the day when temperatures climb, these plants are exposed to low humidity conditions such as one finds in Arizona.
Air movement is critical. The higher the air movement level the better they like frequent watering. Think plants like phalaenopsis living along waterways and waterfalls where they may be misted continuously but dried by the constant air movement.
It’s cactus that prefer brief deluges every month or so, though as usual is a family as large as Orchidaceae there are species evolved to live in similar conditions.
My first instinct was to run and hide. Didn’t you mention before that you’re a redhead? A man can get gunshy pretty quickly about setting off redhead tempests. Especially when he’s good at it, male or female redheads.
Besides recommending the book “Men are from Mars…” all I can offer are trivialities. Most men are not raised with personal interactions and relations as central to existence. Rather the opposite. Add to that the male’s complete lack of understanding subtle hints and things get dicey when ladies meet men.
As a side side off topic story: A friend of mine was upset, very upset about some supposed slight where her house party gift was considered inadequate causing a rift between friends requiring goodness I don’t know what for repairs.
This lady friend lamented to me that men don’t understand such inter-lady issues because they never give such gifts between friends nor are such gifts expected.
I disagreed with her, but put the interaction between men as entirely informal with no strings involved regarding what such gifts mean. Or as she put it, are such gifts even required.
A guy brings a six pack of beer, usually cheap, or a package of snacks, e.g. chips, cheetos etc. (no dip, no napkins, no bowls, just plain in the bag or box), or maybe some sodas in the bottle or can. That’s it. Don’t like the beer, chips or soda? Fine, let’s go get what you want or maybe hit the bar.
A man hates overt formal familiarity whereas many women require it. Yes, a base generality, but a working proposition where interactions are involved. Surely you don’t think men thought of proposing while kneeling?
Consider; in stories regarding mythical court life involving heroes, warriors, princesses, princes, courtiers, ladies in waiting and the whole time of derring-do worlds. A romantic idée fixe is the bold athletic hero; his being expert in court intrigues helps but is not necessary. The reality of the whole court thing is that the sinister fops are the ones who specialize in intrigue, slights, and subtlety, not the guy who is outside doing heavy physical training.
Yeah, there are heroes who combine multiple disciplines; there are also DaVincis’ in every town…
Ever read about the pioneer woman? Want to bet those histories were written by men?
“Colorado Wellington…”
Perhaps I should own up to similar?
Once, while living at a friends house; a lovely family of eight kids; two boys, six girls, three of them redheads. Their mother who is one of my most revered adult mentors went and splurged installing her idea of dream carpet, lush bright white deep pile carpet.
I got home from work as busboy/short order cook and sometimes waiter about two in the morning, parked in the garage and walked across the garage out the door, in the house, across the living room and up the stairs to where I slept.
I was awakened rather suddenly several hours later, something about black footprints that led to my bed.
It seems that I had blindly walked across the large oil leak spot in the garage, it was dark after all, and tracked old used car oil through the house.
Most of the foot prints were never fully cleaned out of the carpet and after a long while, generally ignored. My best friend whose room’s floor I was sleeping on thought the whole thing hilarious. Of course, he was not the one in the center of the brouhaha for once.
Second, I was given the task of checking out a shop on the way home to look for second hand tread mills for my wife and I to exercise on. (her description)
The shops tread mills were very tired so I passed them by and checked out the other gear. I bought a weight set for my use.
I was juggling the weights and trying to unlock the door when my wife opened the door for me.
I didn’t get to finish saying ‘thank you’ getting interrupted about ‘th.
An hour later, I was laughing almost constantly mostly because there were no opportunities for edgewise words, when the phone rang. I answered it and it was my Mother-in-law; I told her that her daughter was busy yelling at me and couldn’t talk to her. Whatever did I do, she asked and started laughing when I told her I bought a weight set. I told her that her daughter would call her when she was finished.
Almost three hours after I got home that night I finally got a chance to try and explain that I bought the weight set for me, not her. Try…
I still laugh when I remember it, my son borrowed the weight set almost a decade ago.
The perfect temperature must have been in the Garden of Eden, where nature thrived and Adam and Eve ran around naked.
Life on earth thrived to a much more widespread level when, in the geologic past, all that carbon that is currently sequestered in fossil fuels was active in the earth atmospheric system.
That was an optimum time for life. The temperature ranges experienced then was ‘optimum’, so that would be my thought on what ‘perfect’ means.
John
Isn’t that a bit like having a bucket of scalding hot water and a bucket of frozen water and pretending like you’ve got two buckets of lukewarm water?
What I mean to say is, there’s no one “right” temperature, especially given seasonality concerns. The appropriate amount of variation about a mean that is within a relatively narrow range would seem to be the appropriate answer.
Otherwise you’re trying to find the best temperature for Venus or Mercury.
Bob,
Great point.
By engaging in the discussion about a “right temperature”, we’re empowering the man-caused-catastrophic-global-warming fanatics who want to destroy the civilization we’ve built on oil/gas/coal energy.
The concept of “average global temperature” is the first step into their nightmarishly illogical and human-hating fantasies.
First, an “average global temperature,” assuming it could actually be measured, is meaningless.
Second, it is impossible to obtain such an average.
Don’t play their game by seriously (although many responses here are in jest, the fact that the concept is accepted as a valid topic for discussion just validates it) considering their fantasies.
We must reject all the catastrophic AGW team’s misanthropic fantasies wholesale. Don’t play along!
I have to laugh when I read about how people will not be able to adjust to climate changes. And the “not be able to adjust” sounds like they will just drop over dead. When I got married a dozen years ago, my husband moved from a rather hot climate, that he had grown up with, to a cold climate at nearly a mile-and-a-half elevation. The first two years were pretty hard on him, but he has acclimated so well that he sometimes goes out, in the middle of winter (single digit F temps) with just a T-shirt and jeans on (he’s learned he really can’t go out without shoes). If he’s going to be out any longer than five minutes, he will dress appropriately with a thick long coat and a hat that covers his ears.
The point is, that people have always adapted to whatever environment they are thrown into. It is what we do. We put on more clothes, or less. We use different lubricants in our vehicles. We might even eat different foods. The point is that humans deliberately adapt to changing circumstances. Always have, always will. If there are more tornadoes, we’ll build underground houses. If the seas rise, we’ll build walls on the shore.
As for a perfect temperature. I’d say go back to basics. Absolute Zero. Easy to know if we get to it, as pretty much everything stops moving. No confusion, no chaos, just a perfect temperature.
@Janice – Unlike your husband, I never learned I cannot go out without shoes. I still do. I only wear them when I have to SHOVEL the snow, and then to avoid stubbing my toes. 😉
+Janice says:
March 10, 2014 at 8:25 am:
++++++++++
Ah – Janice – As you correctly imply, Humans have adapted to be able to thrive on this planet because we harness energy to provide the things you mention. The climate has little to do with whether humans can survive – conversely it’s that as humans, we adapt our surrounds to suite our needs.
Ray Tomes says:
March 7, 2014 at 5:59 pm
Perfect for what?
*****
A nice 75 mile bike ride then a few beers along side the grille.
Advertising the “average global temperature” as the average of temperatures measured at the planet’s surface (even by satellite) is akin to taking the average of readings of the silver foil on the insulation in your attic to be the “average domicile temperature” for your house.
I do admit it may matter to the microbes living on the foil.
Regards,
Bob
The perfect temperature is that which allows the unicorn to thrive.
42
Dear Mr. A. Theo K.,
LOL, that was Pamela Gray who once told us that she is a redhead. My hair has some red in it, though (and in the summer, when the sun shines on it a lot, it gets redder!!!!)… . So…. WATCH OUT! Bwah, ha, ha, ha, haaaaaaaaa!
Just kidding (sort of). Hey, your thoughtful comment at 10:45pm yesterday (sorry I didn’t come back here today until now) has about 65 issues we could merrily discuss for DAYS, lol. Lots of fun theorizing about why “most men” or “most women” do what they do.
I’ll just pick one of your points to comment on: “Most men are not raised with … .” Personally, and this is ONLY from a lifetime of anecdotal evidence and from reading of biographies, etc…, I think it’s in the DNA. And I say, as long as two people love each other (“Love is patient… keeps no record of wrongs” kind of love) and agree to be candid and honest, that they can work anything out — even the daily watering vs. the 3-times-a-year deluge issue. Forgiveness is the key.
Just in case ANYONE might see this post and really wishes things could be better … . They can! YOUR marriage CAN make it. Have hope. Love truly does conquer all. If there is no love (in one or the other partner), well, then, eventually, that plane is, indeed, going to crash. LOVE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING OF ALL.
And here are two songs that sum it up nicely:
That’s What Love Is For — Amy Grant
“… talk us down from our ledges… .”
I Will Be Here — Steven Curtis Chapman
(play this for your wife and she will melt… if she has a heart…)
DON’T GIVE UP, DEAR MARRIED PEOPLE!
Your marriage is worth fighting for!
*****************************************************
If you are being abused (emotionally or otherwise) , however, …. take the way out when it comes. And don’t look back… . GOOD THINGS LIE AHEAD!
#(:))
With agape and hoping that all the WUWT marriages are healthy and happy ones,
Janice
“DirkH says:
March 9, 2014 at 5:13 am”
Do you have anything outside Wikipedia to support that statement? I’ve not found anything, but I do have pictures of “Lucy” in Ethiopia.
“Janice Moore says:
March 10, 2014 at 10:27 pm”
Once bitten, twice shy!
Yes, indeed, dear Patrick (at 1:12am). Believe me, I know what you mean.
However, as Samuel Johnson said of the man who married a second time after a horrible marriage, it is “… the triumph of hope over experience.”
Keep hoping.
She’s out there, Patrick. Start looking around! She may be that nice lady down the street from you … or sitting two seats away at that meeting … or in the office on the next floor. Just open your eyes to the possibility. And, this time, ask your friends what they think and LISTEN TO THEM, lol.
Remember: Freedom has a price — loneliness. We humans are (unless given a gift for happy singlehood) only happy if tied (to a healthy, loving person of course!).
Well, enough of that, huh? (smile)
I wish you all the best in that department.
I’d say: pray and ask God to bring you two together, but, IIRC (from a Christmas Day comment or two), you’d think that would be a huge waste of time. So… I will pray for you! (and do let me know if God — in my view, I mean — says “Yes”)
#(:))
Janice
btw: Patrick, you’ll have to take my word for this, of course, but, I prayed for months (after getting to know her a little from some of her posts) that Pamela Gray would find a man who would love and cherish her — AND SHE DID!
And so, recently, did my 70-something former English professor! The first time she’d had a boyfriend in decades. I had been praying for her for YEARS. God can do ANYTHING. “With God all things are possible.” (Matthew 19:26)
Of course, there are many on my prayer list of singles who are still waiting… .
Keep on believing! Hold on to hope with both hands.
Perhaps the questioner should have differentiated between “what is the perfect temperature for the planet?” and “What is the perfect temperature for humans?”
I would suggest the perfect temperature for the planet is the historical average, somewhere between 22 and 25 degrees C. This is clearly the temperature at which plant and animal life have done well and is also the sustained temperature during which those species have developed. That would be the objective answer. The planet’s species doesn’t like cold, and we are cold, let’s be honest.
If I were a climate scientist then I suppose not 0.1 degree higher than it is today would be the perfect temperature!
What’s right for the planet may well not be right for us. But the planet and all other species were here long before us and at higher temperatures. It will return to the historical trend at some point – empirical evidence says so.
Like I said, I have a knack for irritating and bringing out the red in redheads. That could be one reason they like to keep me around.
My bad for confusing who said what. I know, I know; I should have checked my sources…
Remember? I said I was laughing while getting ‘talked to’. My wife is not, nor are many redheads for that matter, one who festers and goes into a sulk. Issues get talked out and sometimes I even get to be right. Our marriage is a wonderful thing. I share your hope that all WUWT denizens get to share similar happiness and joy.
Life is to be enjoyed, not feared or borne in dread or drudgery. I’d match some of the jobs I’ve worked with almost anyone’s for dirty or hard and sometimes both.
I once had a job at US Steel where I’d get so dirty that workers in the open hearth made us sit by ourselves at lunch. we were living caricatures of Peanut’s Pigpen who shed clouds as he moved about. Laundries didn’t like me either as my work clothes held so much iron ore that users after me got iron stains and sulfur smells. Ever get disinvited from a Laundromat? Who’d thought they wouldn’t want my money?
I still smiled and laughed, especially about getting kicked out of group lunch and the Laundromat. (we used high speed drills to clean tubes in the waste heat boilers. Waste heat boilers capture the heat rising from steel furnaces to make steam generated electricity that powered the plant’s needs. The heated air carries a lot of dirt which is mostly captured via flues before entering the boilers.
Open hearth laborers get to clean the flues using picks and shovels when the furnace’s go offline for maintenance. Shoveling Iron cinders is heavy dirty backbreaking labor and it was these dirty folks who complained we got them dirty and grit in their food.
So sad; heh heh heh.
Hi, A. Theo K.,
Glad to hear that your marriage is a happy one. That’s great. LOL, you did not make this auburn-haired woman mad by your guessing wrong about me. Not in the least. Yes, I realize that my remarks were not likely pertinent to you personally. Just to (possibly) Patrick and ANYONE … . (smile)
You are to be highly admired for having stuck with such a hard job. Whew! Not everyone could have hung in there. Way to go! That is something to be proud of.
Take care,
Janice
Dirk – Lucy was an Australopithicine. Didn’t make tools of any kind, and was no doubt a scavenger and fruit eater. But the position of her spinal cord and long legs proved she walked upright. Where ever one finds primates (not all) like the higher apes, one will find there is some evidence that there were archaic hominids. Some lines died out and became extinct. The Toba eruption 70,000 years ago, did or was expected to kill humans on a great scale. Most finds have been from Africa. Accept one, Homo florensies or the Hobbit. My late lecturer Prof Mike Morwood headed a team who found her. They lived until 18,000 years ago and killed by a volcanic eruption or a homo sapien sapien influx that killed them off. This upset a lot of so called palaeoanthropologists who tried to even change the fossil remains deliberately? They did make tools though, were isolated and the island of Flores even had tiny elephants that they killed to eat.
Cro Magnon humans came from Africa, and there were never any Neanderthals there. The climate was warmer too, so the body structure was such, they were not thick set to sustain cold like the Neaderthals or Inuits. Even the eastern Asians like Chinese, who adapted to their corner of the woods, can only trace their DNA back 70,000 years. There are three races only, but with divisions of course, Caucasians, Negroes and Asian. Your North American Indians have Asian roots, and so do Polynesians. Sub continent Asians and Aborigines are actually in the Caucasian group. Anyway we interbreed OK, meaning we are the same species, and the environment has over the millennium dictated our physical features and metabolisms to survive on the food available to us. I read on one racist site, from America, that some do not believe the out of Africa scenario to explain the development of white people and Europeans. I won’t repeat their comments, but it was very nasty, that white people could not have evolved from such a backward black human.
Not a chance Janice. Even today there are millions doing the dirty work necessary to keep the world spinning. I was not alone, nor in any unique. If anything I am slightly odd in that I take a perverse humor in still being amused when all grotty. One of my Brothers used to get a laugh when we’d get in line for ice cream after working with cows along with their inputs and outputs. Especially on Sundays when the Sunday drivers and parishioners would be in line all dressed up.
People are people and only pampered urbans can not deal with the indelicates of life. Take your hat off and give them any deserved praises. I did finally migrate from blue collar to white collar work.
One of the reasons I greatly appreciate WUWT is the sheer breadth of real world experience amongst it’s members! Shame we can’t get dark beer on tap while participating here.
Cheers!
Bushbunny:
Australopithicine is the latin name given to the bones nick named ‘Lucy’.
“…Didn’t make tools of any kind…” That is conjecture just because tools have not been identified ‘in situ’ with Lucy’s bones.
“…and was no doubt a scavenger and fruit eater…” Make up your mind. Was she a scavenger and therefore omnivorous or was she a fruit eater similar to chimpanzees?
Let’s take the topic a little further along; why would Lucy be an upright walker is she was either omnivorous or fruit eating? Yes, omnivorous bears can stand upright, but they’re clumsy at ambulating on two legs and primarily move by using four legs. If fruit eating why should they ever stand upright, climbing to reach fruit worked well.
The sad fact is that paleontology sciences, especially anthropology have massive gaps in their findings. Studying tiny bone fragments and sections of skeletons serious anthropologists can derive immense amounts of information from small details. Only there is far too many who jump into adding assumptions that seem to give ‘life and imagery’ to the findings.
Study the facts they uncover and ignore the fables. Almost every new primate bone uncovered sends the scientists into a tizzy trying to place it into the family tree. Until DNA research is perfected (did we ever mention that statistics are fundamental to DNA research?), just give the bone scientists a lot of leeway.