New Zealand Grid

From Climate Etc.

by Chris Morris

New Zealand (NZ) offers a good example of operating an electricity grid with relatively high penetration of renewables, almost exclusively wind.

This is a companion post to the ones previously done on the Australian (AUS) grid:  Australian Renewables Integration: Part 1Part 2, Part 3 and the recent update.  The New Zealand gird has is a very similar market structure but with significantly different generation base. However, the same type of issues from moving away from fossil fuels to renewables are occurring.

Overview

The NZ grid runs on a market model, similar to but simpler than that of AUS. The Market regulator is the Electricity Authority (EA) — the NZ equivalent of Australian Energy Regulator. The grid owner is Transpower and the day-to-day wholesale market is under the control of an arm’s length subsidiary, System Operator.

The transmission grid is effectively a spine running the length of each island with spurs out to large generators or load centres. There is a relatively high capacity DC link between the two islands. The grid is usually run as a single market entity, with generation and reserves shared between both islands. Figure 1 shows a simplified map.

 Fig 1    A simplified version of the grid map – the largest dots are about 1300MW and the smallest 200MW

The NZ market, unlike AUS, does not have negative pricing. Instead, must-run bids are put in at 1c/MWh. Most of the time, there is little price separation between the two islands, but in general prices rise as one moves from south to north. This is the way power usually flows. Live generation and market data is shown here and here. The prices are shown in 14 regions, to reflect the role of line constraints in pricing. About two thirds of NZ’s load is in the North Island, and two thirds of that is in the upper half.

The big difference with AUS is that NZ generation is hydro dominated, with thermal plant typically making up only 10-20% of the supply. The total generation is about 44TWh a year (AUS is over 270TWh), of which hydro is about 60%. However, this varies year to year depending on rainfall. Geothermal provides 20%. Wind is less than 10% and solar insignificant. With the different climate to Australia, solar in NZ has a lot less potential. Average sunshine hours across the country are about half of outback Australia’s. One of the original settlers’ names for the country translates as “Land of the Long White Cloud”.

Because of the temperate climate, air conditioning and heat pumps (large daytime electricity loads) aren’t common. The gas fired stations typically provide about two thirds of the difference between renewables generation and load, with coal supplying the remaining third. Generation from diesel fuelled gas turbines (GTs) is only for the very high peaks and emergencies. Figure 2 shows the generation source – the major “Other” contributor is from wood waste boilers driving steam turbines.

 Fig 2    Annual Generation by source. The hydro and wind contributions are more variable over shorter time periods, even just quarterly. There have been no significant hydro developments since the early 90s.

The 1GW of geothermal runs in the same niche that nukes occupy – baseload at very high load factors, typically >90%. The hydro is based on three main rivers and an underground station connecting a big lake directly to the sea. There is relatively little hydro storage (about six weeks supply when the head lakes are all full), but the country typically has year-round rain with snow-melt in spring. If it doesn’t rain for a month or so, more coal is burnt. The hydro and geothermal generating units are smaller than the usual thermal equivalents. Almost all hydro generator units are less than 110MW, with most in 30-50MW range. That makes it easier to match generation to available flow.

Unlike Australia, the NZ load is highest in winter. Daily electricity usage is about 100GWh in summer and 120GWh in winter, with the near nation-wide shut down during the end of December early January summer holidays, dropping it down to less than 90GWh. Typically, the annual peak load is about 7GW just after dusk in the middle of winter – a calm frosty night. When this occurs, there is typically an anticyclone over the whole country.

The daily load curve has a pronounced double peaked shape. This 40% change makes it quite different to many other grids including AUS, which often have large heavy industry demand as part of their load. Figure 3 shows the maximum and minimum over a recent two-year period. The evening peak is generally higher; but in winter, it can be the morning one. The only big industrial load is a 500MW smelter at the bottom of the South Island which both stabilises the grid and offers rapid short-term demand response if the hydro which mainly supplies it has a unit trip. There is another about 200MW of near continuous demand in big industries, mainly pulp and paper mills, but these often have embedded generation to deal with their waste products and lower their grid demand.

 Fig 3    all the daily NZ grid load in 2017-18 was between the two lines. The orange Xmas Day was the minimum by some margin with the wrinkles at 5:30 and 20:30 being sunrise/ sunset.  The shape of the curve throughout the year is markedly consistent with the big ramp- up 5am to 8am and the double peaks.  That big 2500MW ramp-up is mainly done with hydros but almost always does need significant thermal input. Power stations that run mainly in the heavy load period 0600 to 2200 are said to be two-shifting.

With geothermal’s 1GW at the bottom of the generation merit order stack, the minimum load is made up by must-run thermal & hydro, plus what wind there is. Like AUS, the wind is unreliable – if anything, worse. Wind has a higher nameplate rating available than geothermal, but wind provides only 40% of the geothermal energy. The windfarms are located across length of the country north- south line (and the main wind comes from the west quadrant), but are concentrated in the lower North Island where the wind is strongest. Total wind farm output can vary from 900MW down to 6MW! Despite the distances, there is significant synchronicity in the windfarms’ generation. The swinging up and downs of total wind supply rarely match grid requirements. The variability has caused short-term operational problems in frequency and voltage management as well as ramp up problems.  At the 3-4 am minimum load period, wind may make up a quarter of the supply.

Chains of hydro stations dam the steeper parts of rivers to use all the head available, with one station’s tailrace at the head of the next hydro lake. They start and stop multiple generators in synch at each station, rather than changing the individual machine’s outputs to match the load. Water needs to be staged during low demand periods to supply the lower dams and to avoid dewatering downstream riverbeds. Figure 4 shows both this loading and the value of dispatchable generation. Hydro spill is minimised as the EA can fine generation companies for not using water to generate, which could raise the market prices. Other than the big floods, or units being out of service on maintenance, the only spill happens just when there is too much generation available for the load and the hydro stations are dispatched off.

 Fig 4 – Load following by the 3 main hydro rivers. Each river has a different company operating the stations on it. The two low sets of curves on the graph’s right-hand-side are the weekend. This operational pattern is often called two-shifting. The notchiness in the purple line is caused by the big size of the units – full load or off operation.

To help minimize the impacts of rapid load rises, the distribution companies have a system where customers can have short-term non-essential power like hot water and space heaters available to be switched off when required. They are on separate meters and get the power at a cheaper rate (for me, it is about 4c/ unit) The switching is done by injecting high frequencies into the 50Hz waveform which triggers relay switches. The common name for this is ripple control. Across NZ, a nominal 1GW is available, but the typical load on it at any one time is only 100-150MW.

The market price for power is typically around $120/MWh. However, lately as more windfarms come in, the distribution curve of market prices has become bimodal, <$30 when lakes are full and the wind is blowing, >$200 when it isn’t. The merit order stack can be very steep. One thing that needs to be stated clearly (as many don’t understand it) is the market is only for residuals – maybe 10% of the total generation. Most of the retailers have long-term pricing contracts or hedges to cover their customer’s electricity loads. In contrast to Australia, NZ’s domestic power prices have remained remarkably steady over last fifteen years; in fact, slightly dropping since 2015 as shown in Figure 5 NZ power is now cheaper than AUS and less likely to rise as fast.

Screen Shot 2023-09-30 at 7.19.46 AM

 Fig 5    Inflation adjusted domestic power prices.

For those that don’t understand how market dispatch works, the day is divided up into 48 ½h segments – Australia is now 5-minute segments. The generators put in their bids of MW and cost (in terms of $/MWh). These bids are arranged in ascending price order (bottom of stack are must run units at $0.01 cost). The lowest price ones up to the demand are the ones to be dispatched to generate. Spot market price is set by the unit cost of the last unit dispatched. Another name for this is merit order. If there are constraints, like transmission line outages, then these can reshuffle the merit order. If there is too much generation at even minimum price, the ones least needed for security are dispatched off. This means the grid tells the plant to stop generating or maybe just reduce output.

There are two main parts to what companies set as their bid packages (MW & price) to recover their costs – the fixed and variable components. The fixed charges are recovery of the cost of that power station, divided by number of hours it is expected to run. This would include staff & contractors, overhauls, and recovery of the capital costs of building and refurbishing the plant. For thermal plant, the variable costs would mainly be for fuel which includes the carbon charges. This might not be a fixed sum as efficiency varies with load and starting up requirements that don’t generate income can use a lot of fuel. Stop/ Start operation increases maintenance and capital costs. For a hydro plant, the variable charge is the value of that water, at least if they have storage capability. Use it now, or save it? Factors that influence the price is how full all the hydro lakes are, and the longer-range weather forecast. There is also the risk to be factored in of having to buy the power from thermal plants if there isn’t enough water to supply their customers’ load requirements. What this can mean is that some hydros split their bid. Some “must run”, some at a cheap price and some more expensive than coal.

Thermal makes up the difference between available renewables generation offered in on the merit order bids and the actual load. As hydro storage drops or the wind dies, thermal increases its contribution. It also acts as dry period reserve. The level of the lakes is a very important metric major consumers monitor. Most of the hydro is in the South Island and all the thermal in the North.  It is not unusual for the DC to run lightly south at night and heavily north during the day. This may not be the situation for much longer. The major thermal plants are getting old and the government wants them to shut down. Replacement alternative dispatchable power supplies aren’t being built. For the foreseeable future, the grid won’t be secure for both the power and energy requirements without the reserve provided by maintaining the coal and gas fired plants so they can generate when needed.

Transpower does a good planning process, putting out an Asset Management Plan and a transmission planning report every two years. The latter document breaks the country down into regions, looking at the expected load change for every grid exit and injection point as well as switchyards. They then use these documents to prioritise their capital works programme. It then goes to the EA to get authority to increase charges to pay for it. The reports aren’t definitive as they were recently caught out by a major cyclone flooding incident which took out two big switchyards, needing major remedial work and capital expenditure. The major problem the process has is the grid company is wholly owned by the government, which prefers dividends to asset building.

As the grid is relatively small, frequency swings can be often and significant. Frequency control is done by a number of methods. It can be through very short dispatch period adjustments – 20MW up or down type instructions. Or it can be by running some units partially loaded on governor control.  However, it can still be tricky to manage without the buffer of the resources of a larger grid. Frequency swings are larger because of this. In NZ, a 1Hz swing isn’t uncommon while AUS rarely goes worse than 0.2Hz.  This is a problem of small grids, especially those without relatively large stable industrial loads like smelters.

Figure 6 shows the normal ramp up in the spring early morning. Figure 7 shows the effect of the final of the Rugby World Cup held in England the following weekend which many New Zealanders would have got up about 4:30am to watch. The rapid 400MW load increase at half-time caught the SO out. The frequency drop that went with the 10% rise needed major corrective action.

 Fig 6    A typical Sunday morning load ramp-up

Screen Shot 2023-09-30 at 7.21.31 AM

 Fig 7    2015 Rugby World Cup and effect of half-time. Frequency dropped to about 48.5Hz until ripple control and  reserves brought it back under control.

The grid inertia requirements are generally not seen as an issue because of all the hydro and geothermal units running. Most reserves (also part of the market) are managed by either partially loaded, or in-service as synchronous condensers, hydro units. The latter are connected to the grid, but have the inlets shut and use compressed air to depress the water in the tailrace. This allows the runner to spin in air with relatively little power consumption. Units in this mode can then be used to give voltage support. They can also open the inlet controls and be up to full load in 10-15 seconds – instantaneous reserve. GTs provide slower acting support.

There are problems controlling transmission line voltages into NZ’s biggest city, Auckland, because there are no nearby synchronous generators. The nearest one is at Huntly, a large thermal station complex 60 miles to the south. Even with that, stations in the centre of the North Island have to provide significant voltage support. That shortcoming needs major switchyard investments to correct. The DC link and windfarms are also prone to cause sub-synchronous oscillations in the grid which will eventually need correction, but have not significantly manifested themselves yet.

There was some load shedding in an event two winters ago, when wind generation dropped in the afternoon, too late to bring on slow start thermals for cover. Then they had weed blocking the intake screens at a big hydro, limiting their output; but the main problem was the SO’s grid management model and processes were wrong. They could have just made it through on the generation they had. Much mea culpa about that incident with a lot of revision and validation work done. It is not supposed to happen again.

More big dams are politically unpalatable so there is little hydro development potential. Growth has been accompanied by a gradual move to build more geothermal and wind. However, there are few new sites for geothermal left to develop. Geothermals are also being installed for the two shift operation. To balance this, there is retirement or less operating for the big thermals. The major problem will come when there is not enough thermal to cover the shortfall when there’s little wind and not enough water for hydros. This will especially challenging for the daily ramp up, as well as when covering the unexpected cold day peaks with sufficient reserves. Even now, it is not unusual to have more than 1500MW of reliable thermal plant running to make up the difference between what renewables generate versus the load.

The income derived from thermal plants has to meet their fixed as well as operating costs, so with lowered participation they become uneconomic and will eventually be forced to close. Even a major breakdown could be uneconomic to fix. The government in another virtue signalling move severely restricted gas exploration and development. This will mean future fuel supply is uncertain.  The one coal station is old, though not as old as many in AUS. Coal is imported from Indonesia though the station sits on a coalfield. Transmission line problems and lack of reserves can exacerbate the generation shortage situation. That shortfall leading to rolling blackouts may be only a calm dry, cold winter’s day away.

There is no overall co-ordination of power station development. It is left to each generation entity (four big power companies, two smaller ones, as well as overseas developers or community groups) to evaluate potential new plant on its own merits; looking at the market, their balance sheets and customer load profiles. They then apply for consents to build and operate it. Stations won’t be built unless the owners believe they can pay back their capital and operating costs. This has frustrated many who yearn for a return to the days of centralised planning largesse. Invariably, those decisions were driven by political, not grid management or financial reasons.

Because the current government wants to virtue signal, moving from the predicted 95% renewables by 2030 to 100% while also providing cover as dry year reserve, development of a massive pumped storage scheme at Onslow in the lower South Island has been promoted. Exact details aren’t forthcoming as it is still just a concept, but it is scoped as about 1200MW, 5000GWh. Pricing just for the station went from $4B to $16B in the space of two years of investigation, but the Minister of Energy still thinks it is a good deal. Industry speculation is that the real capital cost of all the infrastructure needed would maybe double that. There is no report or details as to how it will operate or integrate into the market trying to pay its way by arbitrage. It has been discussed as both dry year storage or day to day energy smoothing – it can’t do both. There will need to be massive transmission lines and switchyard infrastructure built to utilise the power if it goes ahead. As well, many windfarms will need to be built to fill the lake. None of these have been proposed, let alone costed. If the government changes at the forthcoming election, the current Opposition have stated they will kill the project. Consignment to the never-to-be-mentioned-again graveyard of politicians’ bad ideas then is inevitable.

There are a lot of plans to build more wind and grid solar farms, but many see them as just tyre-kicking exercises, with few consents applied for and even less construction starting. The windfarms get no direct subsidies from NZ consumers.  Therefore, the economics just aren’t there for building additional plants of this sort. They do get an indirect subsidy, in that they don’t have to meet dispatch where other generators can get fined if they don’t keep their output within pre-notified tight limits. Domestic solar has various subsidies to help assist installation but these aren’t generous. There are no government feed-in-tariffs (FITs) for their output, though some distribution companies offer a nett power (single meter) option.

Almost all generation from existing windfarms is purchased by the large generation companies (if they don’t already own them), who then offset the output against their other generating assets. However, that margin for balancing is now near gone, especially with thermals closing down. The NZ market will need modifications to accommodate the variability. This is especially so with reserves management.

Though it was near thirty years ago, one paper’s cartoonist got it right about creating a complex market.

Power Reforms Old New
Power Reforms Old New

For the reasons outlined above, it is more likely that Australia will have operational problems maintaining its grid before New Zealand does. However, the latter is not immune from the same issues confronting other Western countries. It will be interesting to see which government will be the first to publicly say the heresy that net-zero power generation won’t work.

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Tom Halla
October 2, 2023 2:17 pm

NZ’s former PM, Jacinda Ardern, reminded me of Justin Trudeau, in a bad way.

Simon
Reply to  Tom Halla
October 2, 2023 5:28 pm

And apart from being female and also being decisive in dealing with covid, what exactly did she do that has you so all upset?

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
October 2, 2023 5:39 pm

I love the way you assume that your opponents can’t possibly have a valid reason for disagreeing with you.

Tom Halla
Reply to  Simon
October 2, 2023 5:45 pm

Oh, aside from being a neo-fascist with utterly no respect for her citizen’s civil rights? And being a delusional Green is another reason to despise her.

Simon
Reply to  Tom Halla
October 2, 2023 6:05 pm

Oh, aside from being a neo-fascist”
Moronic comment. Clearly you have no idea what a neo fascist is.

“with utterly no respect for her citizen’s civil rights?
She had more compassion and sense of what her country wanted at a time of crisis, in her little finger, than the terrorist Trump had in his entire body. The rights of the bulk of the country were very much in the forefront of all the decisions she made. And the result? Look at the Covid figures for NZ. They are a standout internationally because of her (listen to the science) decision making. They speak for themselves. One of only four countries in the world that had a higher life expectancy after covid than before.

“And being a delusional Green is another reason to despise her.”
Oh dear another moronic comment…..

Tom Halla
Reply to  Simon
October 2, 2023 6:16 pm

Fascism is non-Marxist authoritarian socialism, which fits Ardern. I do not use the Stalinist definition.
What Ardern did was blow up the New Zealand economy for delaying the disease a year or so. Mussolini had popular support, too, for awhile.
Please notice she left office rather abruptly.

Simon
Reply to  Tom Halla
October 2, 2023 6:33 pm

Fascism is non-Marxist authoritarian socialism, which fits Ardern. “
Nonsense. If you think a democratically elected leader who implemented the policies she was elected on, and made decision based on science that were in the best interest of the country, is a Fascist Maxrist ….you really are a plonker.

“What Ardern did was blow up the New Zealand economy for delaying the disease a year or so”
Bollocks. NZ’s ecomony was in far better shape than most after covid. Read about it here…
https://www.oecd.org/economy/new-zealand-economic-snapshot/#:~:text=Going%20for%20Growth%202021%20%2D%20New,a%20number%20of%20structural%20challenges.

Please notice she left office rather abruptly.”
Another ridiculous statement. She left office before the election to give her party time to find a new leader. (like the conservative PM John Key before her.) She made the decision after being PM for two cycles (that’s one more than Trump) that it was time to step down. Good on her I say. Being honest with herself, her family and the country.

Tom Halla
Reply to  Simon
October 2, 2023 6:41 pm

Purportedly, Italian Fascism was labor unionism on steroids. Ardern was inclined to rule by what amounted to decree, and, like Trudeau, attempted to disarm her subjects.

Simon
Reply to  Tom Halla
October 2, 2023 6:54 pm

Ardern was inclined to rule by what amounted to decree,”
You mean she was an informed, decisive leader, who wasn’t afraid to make the hard decisions? I agree.

Tom Halla
Reply to  Simon
October 2, 2023 7:01 pm

As I wrote, Mussolini had public support early on. Evidently, so did Ardern.

Philip in New Zealand
Reply to  Simon
October 2, 2023 7:11 pm

Ardern would have been a one term Prime Minister and was well behind in the polls when she was saved by Covid, by controlling the narrative and misleading the public in daily TV appearances she managed to turn her popularity around and win a second term. None of the key policies she stood on ever were achieved and by the time she resigned her popularity had declined to levels never seen before for a sitting prime minister things around but . Her replacement immediately dumped virtually all her policies in an effort to turn things around and the jump in support showed how unpopular and misguided Ardern had become.

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
October 3, 2023 7:51 am

So was Hitler.

I just love how Simon justifies totalitarianism. But only so long as people he agrees with are in charge.

bnice2000
Reply to  Simon
October 2, 2023 6:59 pm

and the country.”

Yep, Jacinta standing down, was an absolutely gift for NZ. !

Her fascist sibling, Dan Andrews.. has just gifted Victoria, too.

mikelowe2013
Reply to  Simon
October 2, 2023 7:53 pm

Many of her major policies were NEVER declared beforehand. Ran away before she could be ousted by popular vote! Coward!

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
October 3, 2023 7:49 am

So, in poor Simon’s opinion, if the socialists like a policy, it can’t possibly be fascist or marxist.

And to think, poor Simon actually calls other people moronic.

She left the office in order to give her party time to find a new leader. Now Simon, if it is still possible, please try to think, for once. Why was it necessary for her party to find a new leader.

mikelowe2013
Reply to  Simon
October 2, 2023 7:51 pm

Also, she tried to claim that those “vaccinations” were not mandated! As usual, a repeat liar!

Mr.
Reply to  Simon
October 2, 2023 8:11 pm

Yes, it’s incorrect to call her a Green.

She’s an unapologetic Socialist.

Held high office in global Socialism cadres I understand.

old cocky
Reply to  Simon
October 2, 2023 8:21 pm

Look at the Covid figures for NZ. They are a standout internationally because of her (listen to the science) decision making.

NZ did slightly worse than the world average, and Australia did slightly better, with a more complex juggling act between the Federal government and 6 state governments..
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

We both had the major advantage of not having any land borders.

bnice2000
Reply to  old cocky
October 2, 2023 8:52 pm

NZ is also an insignificant island far off the coast of Australia.

Easy to shut down, because nobody would notice. ! 😉

old cocky
Reply to  bnice2000
October 2, 2023 9:04 pm

Here I was thinking that I am cynical.

Simon
Reply to  bnice2000
October 2, 2023 10:15 pm

Easy to shut down,”
Which just goes to show that isolating works during a pandemic.

“NZ is also an insignificant island “
Once again you show your knowledge of things is child like. The country is made up of more than one island.

bnice2000
Reply to  Simon
October 2, 2023 11:15 pm

Ok, TWO insignificant main islands.

Thanks for drawing that to my attention.

Worked during the plandemic, DIDN’T work afterwards.

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
October 3, 2023 7:54 am

Simon, the master of come backs, not.

BTW, isolating didn’t work. NZ couldn’t even match the international average. Which includes countries that did pretty much nothing.

Simon
Reply to  old cocky
October 2, 2023 10:13 pm

We both had the major advantage of not having any land borders.”
Which just goes to show that isolating works.
And NZ came in at 105th place for deaths per million. The US at 15th which was pretty much the worst place for a first world country. One of those two countries was decisive and swift in taking action, the other had a clown(Trump) running things. The results speak for themselves.

Jim Masterson
Reply to  Simon
October 2, 2023 10:19 pm

You’re confusing Trump’s numbers with Biden’s. Send in the clowns refers to Biden’s administration.

bnice2000
Reply to  Simon
October 2, 2023 11:16 pm

Remember, Trump was planning to shut down.

… but his far-left Fauci adviser said no. !

Simon
Reply to  bnice2000
October 3, 2023 12:54 pm

Bullsit.

old cocky
Reply to  Simon
October 2, 2023 11:29 pm

“We both had the major advantage of not having any land borders.”

Which just goes to show that isolating works.

It’s worked for centuries. Quarantining new arrivals was standard practice for ages.

And NZ came in at 105th place for deaths per million. The US at 15th which was pretty much the worst place for a first world country. 

I’m sure the 13 counties on the Balkan Peninsula and 1 Italian microstate with higher per-capita death rates will be pleased to find out that they aren’t First World.

MarkW
Reply to  old cocky
October 3, 2023 7:59 am

Simon has very flexible definitions. And standards.

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
October 3, 2023 7:56 am

As simple Simon has demonstrated many times in the past, he simply is not capable of understanding complex, multi-faceted problems. He has to reduce everything to a single statistic. It doesn’t matter whether the statistic is relevant or not, all that it matters is that it supports the position he has decided to take.

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
October 3, 2023 7:58 am

BTW, pretty much everything Trump did, your socialists opposed at the time.
Trump was called a racist and a fascist when he banned travel between the US and any place where COVID was rampant.

observa
Reply to  Simon
October 3, 2023 1:55 am

The obvious problem with knee-jerk lockdowns and printing helicopter money for whole populations to sit on their butts is being paid for with high inflation and interest rates now Simon. How is struggletown doing with that washout now and what’s been the real cost of your feelgood statistical life saved?

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
October 3, 2023 7:47 am

I’m guessing that Simon is one of those people who are actually stupid enough to believe that fascists are right wing.

She agreed with Simon, therefore she agreed with the whole country. I just love the way neo-fascists are all about forcing other people to do whatever it is the neo-fascists want them to do. The rights of government trump individual rights.

And here come the ludicrous claims that climate science is based on science.
Heck with the 10’s of thousands of actual scientists who disagree.

And to top it off, anything poor Simon disagrees with is ridiculed as being moronic. Of course ridicule is the only weapon poor Simon has. It’s not like he’s capable of actually defending the nonsense he spews.

Ex-KaliforniaKook
Reply to  MarkW
October 3, 2023 2:55 pm

You left off the ‘Simple’ before Simon’s name. It really does define his arguments.

Jim Masterson
Reply to  MarkW
October 3, 2023 7:31 pm

“I’m guessing that Simon is one of those people who are actually stupid enough to believe that fascists are right wing.”

In support of your comment:
“Contrary to what most people think, the Nazis were ardent socialists (hence the term “National Socialism”). They believed in free health care and guaranteed jobs. They confiscated inherited wealth and spent vast sums on public education. They purged the church from public policy, promoted a new form of pagan spirituality, and inserted the authority of the state into every nook and cranny of daily life. The Nazis declared war on smoking, supported abortion, euthanasia, and gun control. They loathed the free market, provided generous pensions for the elderly, and maintained a strict racial quota system in their universities–where campus speech codes were all the rage. The Nazis led the world in organic farming and alternative medicine. Hitler was a strict vegetarian, and Himmler was an animal rights activist.”
–from Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg

There’s very little there that so-called right-wingers would agree with. It’s funny how most leftist don’t believe Goldberg’s statement–they believe their own propaganda.

It’s also interesting that the Communists have managed to pin the Nazi label on conservatives. Conservatives, who want limited government, would not opt for an all powerful dictatorship.

stevekj
Reply to  Jim Masterson
October 4, 2023 11:41 am

“Communists have managed tried to pin the Nazi label on conservatives”

Fixed it for you 🙂

Jim Masterson
Reply to  stevekj
October 4, 2023 5:43 pm

Thanks.

Duker
Reply to  Tom Halla
October 2, 2023 8:18 pm

The courts decided that no civil rights breached , except in some minimal cases, .
One of many
High Court decision affirmed by Appeal Court

Tom Halla
Reply to  Duker
October 2, 2023 8:39 pm

Countries following British law do not have an enforceable Constitution, as Parliament is supreme. If a bill followed procedure, anything goes.

mikelowe2013
Reply to  Simon
October 2, 2023 7:50 pm

Approving an untested “vaccine”. Will that do for a start?

Simon
Reply to  mikelowe2013
October 2, 2023 7:59 pm

You mean the one Trump bragged about having created?

Jim Masterson
Reply to  Simon
October 2, 2023 9:54 pm

And your favorite Fascist, Biden, demanded everyone take it. At least Trump made it optional–something you control freaks wouldn’t allow.

Simon
Reply to  Jim Masterson
October 2, 2023 10:16 pm

And your favorite Fascist, Biden, demanded everyone take it.”
Bullshit….Bullshit he didn’t ever say that. And Bullshit he is not my favourite….

Jim Masterson
Reply to  Simon
October 2, 2023 10:25 pm

So people who lost their jobs didn’t lose their job for not taking the vax? You’re missing in action.

Simon
Reply to  Jim Masterson
October 3, 2023 1:00 pm

They had a choice. Many chose to not get vaxed. But in some cases that came with a consequences as it should, particularly when people worked in jobs that carried a risk for others…. Health, education etc.

Jim Masterson
Reply to  Simon
October 3, 2023 7:41 pm

“They had a choice.”

Yes, take an untested vaccination or lose your job–some choice.

“But in some cases that came with a consequences as it should . . . .”

The consequences were that the vax didn’t work, didn’t stop the spread, and some young people are dying from Myocarditis–probably caused by the vax.

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
October 3, 2023 8:02 am

Poor Simon, throwing repeated vulgarities instead of actually defending your ludicrous claims. Is this truly what you have been reduced to?

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
October 3, 2023 8:01 am

As usual, Simon has to lie about what actually happened, since the truth does not support the position he has choosen.

Trump bragged that his policies resulted in the vaccine being produced sooner than it otherwise would have. And he was correct.
He never took credit for actually creating the vaccine.

Ex-KaliforniaKook
Reply to  MarkW
October 3, 2023 3:24 pm

Simon is probably thinking of Al Gore, who invented almost everything during the Twentieth Century. So different from Obama, who was quick to point out that nobody built anything.

Simon
Reply to  mikelowe2013
October 2, 2023 8:01 pm

And she didn’t approve it. Yawn….That would be Medsafe.

bnice2000
Reply to  Simon
October 2, 2023 11:18 pm

Naivety is your only redeeming feature !

And it is pathetic.

MarkW
Reply to  bnice2000
October 3, 2023 10:00 am

Simon is so desperate to disagree, that he doesn’t bother to stop and see if what he is writing makes any sense.

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
October 3, 2023 9:59 am

Companies get to approve their own drugs in New Zealand. How convenient.
No government involvement?

Simon
Reply to  MarkW
October 3, 2023 1:01 pm

Be informed before you write…. it helps.

Mr.
Reply to  Simon
October 2, 2023 8:08 pm

Anyone can be decisive, Simon.

And in so doing, stuff things up monumentally.

Just like Jazza did / does.

Jim Masterson
Reply to  Simon
October 2, 2023 9:55 pm

I love they way Simon always supports the current Fascist Dictator in the news.

Simon
Reply to  Jim Masterson
October 2, 2023 10:17 pm

Really who? Name one fascist dictator I have supported? I say you are full of BS.

Jim Masterson
Reply to  Simon
October 2, 2023 10:26 pm

Name one you didn’t support.

Jim Masterson
Reply to  Simon
October 2, 2023 10:32 pm

I bet you supported Justin Trudeau. His Parliament gave two standing ovations to an actual Nazi. I call that real Fascism.

Simon
Reply to  Jim Masterson
October 3, 2023 12:40 am

What a plonker….

Jim Masterson
Reply to  Simon
October 3, 2023 1:08 am

That’s the best you can do–“plonker?” You know, Lenin called his supporters “useful idiots.” He didn’t care about them anymore than your handlers care about you.

MarkW
Reply to  Jim Masterson
October 3, 2023 8:04 am

Notice how quickly Simon has to resort to insults and vulgarisms when challenged on the nonsense that he pushes.

Simon
Reply to  MarkW
October 3, 2023 1:02 pm

Notice how quickly Make it Up Mark starts sentences the same way when he has nothing to say.

David Wolcott
Reply to  Simon
October 3, 2023 2:26 am

Decisive dealing with Covid? You’re kidding. She lied. She said that measures were being taken to “flatten the curve” so that our health system could cope with a pandemic. Which seemed reasonable. Then she moved to an elimination policy, which, by the way, didn’t work, and that required draconian policies that bitterly divided the country. I won’t bore climate-interested readers with all of her other appalling policies here. The ones I just mentioned are enough.

Simon
Reply to  David Wolcott
October 3, 2023 1:05 pm

She said that measures were being taken to “flatten the curve” so that our health system could cope with a pandemic.”
100% true.
“draconian policies that bitterly divided the country.”
Yep it was a pandemic which required tough unpopular decisions. And history now shows they got it pretty much right. It’s why she was re-elected so easily.

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
October 3, 2023 8:06 am

Nobody else has commented on Simon’s claim that the reason Tom doesn’t like Ardern is because she’s female.

Ex-KaliforniaKook
Reply to  MarkW
October 3, 2023 3:27 pm

He was just using the gender card. No basis required – just the accusation. He would have used the race card, but it just wouldn’t fit.

DMacKenzie
October 2, 2023 3:26 pm

Search for “gird”, replace with “grid”

Chris Nisbet
October 2, 2023 4:15 pm

Much like what we hear from the leaders of other countries, ours in NZ tell us that NZ needs to be a global leader in the net zero transition. This seems to be the justification for spending up large in an effort to reduce our FF usage by a few percent. Given the fairly low proportion of FF generation we already have, I think it would be sensible to tell other countries that we’ll start making our NZ grid more fragile once their FF generation drops to the same percentage as ours. We could then relax for the foreseeable future.

As for Lake Onslow, cost-benefit analysis (can’t find the link to it) shows that it didn’t make sense when it was ‘only’ going to cost $4bn. The current government is quite keen on wasteful spending though, which is probably one reason they like this project so much.

Let’s hope they get kicked out come election time.

Bob
October 2, 2023 4:16 pm

Why are they even fooling around with wind? It is a waste.

Philip in New Zealand
Reply to  Bob
October 2, 2023 6:05 pm

The capacity factor for wind in New Zealand is amongst the highest in the world so it is not as bad as elsewhere. As long as it is a minor part of a grid’s supply it can be useful with hydro able to ramp up and down with winds fluctuations.

Duker
Reply to  Philip in New Zealand
October 2, 2023 6:12 pm

Yes . Its a windy country with an existing long narrow grid to transfer the power around

Bob
Reply to  Philip in New Zealand
October 2, 2023 6:44 pm

I would agree with you if and only if fossil fuels are allowed to run unhindered by the on and off nature of wind. We use wind when we can otherwise find a use for it other than the grid.

Philip in New Zealand
Reply to  Bob
October 2, 2023 7:41 pm

It is a matter of balancing out demand and supply for the whole year, often in New Zealand they cut back on hydro usage in Autumn and increase fossil fuel usage to ensure they have sufficient water storage for winter when demand is highest.

Duker
October 2, 2023 4:18 pm

I thought this would be a good depth view of a country and renewables that doesnt have interconnectors to make unreliable wind look good ( looking at you Britain and Ireland)

yet first sentence gets it all wrong
good example of operating an electricity grid with relatively high penetration of renewables, almost exclusively wind.”

Wind is very low generation, as the renewables actual are the usual large frequency controlled turbines from hydro and steam geothermal.

Midday and its a strong wind day shows this 89% renewables for the grid operator Transpower
https://www.transpower.co.nz/system-operator/live-system-and-market-data/consolidated-live-data
Power Generation(as at) 03 Oct 2023 11:00
CoGen69 MW
Coal282 MW
Gas259 MW
Geothermal889 MW
Hydro3391 MW
Liquid0 MW
\Wind432 MW
Total 5322MW

Wind is 8.11%.
This for a strong wind day from their local meteorological wind and rain map
https://www.metservice.com/maps-radar/rain/forecast/3-days

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Duker
October 2, 2023 5:54 pm

Wind was 8.11%. But gas+coal was only 11.46%.

Wind is not subsidised, and will struggle to compete with hydro and geo. But fuel (esp coal) is expensive in NZ, so wind will replace those. Hydro makes an excellent backup.

Duker
Reply to  Nick Stokes
October 2, 2023 6:17 pm

How reliable is wind compared to gas/coal ?
The coal cant be *expensive* as the only coal station sits on top of or adjacent to the coal seams

You cant replace a reliable on demand method with waiting for windy weather that wont be what you want in the morning and evening peaks.

Are you happy to turn off all your home equipment, except a few LED lights and a very small heater in the evening, for the say 10 coldest days of the year ?

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Duker
October 2, 2023 6:23 pm

The coal cant be *expensive* as the only coal station sits on top of or adjacent to the coal seams”

However, they don’t mine it. They import from Indonesia.

Hydro makes an excellent backup for times of low wind.

Philip in New Zealand
Reply to  Nick Stokes
October 2, 2023 6:40 pm

In New Zealand hydro is the predominant source of electricity, wind enables hydro to be reduced to save water for when it is needed most.

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Philip in New Zealand
October 2, 2023 8:31 pm

Exactly how it should be done.

Graham
Reply to  Nick Stokes
October 4, 2023 6:34 pm

Do you know why we import coal Nick?
The answer is because our Labour Green government have actively tried to out law coal and coal mining to be seen as “clean green ” by the UN and the rest of the world .
New Zealand has billions of tonnes of coal and coking coal is still exported out of the South Island.
The Huntly Power station sits above a major brown coal field alongside the Waikato River .
Jacinda Ardern on being elected Prime Minister promptly passed a law stopping any more exploration or further development of our oil and gas reserves off our coasts .
Like all countries in the world New Zealand will need large quantities of oil and gas for centuries .
We destroy our oil and gas supplies and many jobs as our oil and gas runs down but we will still need the thousands of things that are made with petroleum products for a very long time .

bnice2000
Reply to  Nick Stokes
October 2, 2023 7:01 pm

NZ is blessed with geothermal and hydro.

Why they would ruin that reliability with wind, is anybody’s guess.

It certainly isn’t a rational thing to do.

Some sort of “me-too” virtue-seeking ??

Nick Stokes
Reply to  bnice2000
October 2, 2023 8:30 pm

No-one is suggesting that they cut back on geo and hydro. But they could save a lot of money, as well as helping the planet, butletting wind take over from FF.

bnice2000
Reply to  Nick Stokes
October 2, 2023 8:50 pm

but letting wind take over from FF.”

Which it can never do..

… because wind can never be “on demand”

bnice2000
Reply to  Nick Stokes
October 2, 2023 8:55 pm

as well as helping the planet”

ROFLMAO

What a stupid comment..

In what way does NZ not using a pittance of coal “help the planet”

You are delusional, Nick !!

Rod Evans
Reply to  Nick Stokes
October 2, 2023 11:15 pm

The reluctance to maintain/build new hydro, tells us they are actually cutting back on hydro. That is a huge mistake to make in NZ.

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Rod Evans
October 3, 2023 3:49 am

I think a good reason for that reluctance is uncertainty about the future of Tiwai Point smelter. If that closes, it frees up about 13% of NZ’s electricity usage.

But they don’t need new hydro. Wind is cheaper to build, and enables them to get much better value out of the hydro they have, as in Tasmania.

michel
Reply to  Nick Stokes
October 3, 2023 12:20 am

No-one is suggesting that they cut back on geo and hydro. But they could save a lot of money, as well as helping the planet, butletting wind take over from FF.

The argument for saving the planet is commonly used when people are advocating doing things which can have no effect on global emissions or climate.

Its used in the UK at the moment by the activists to object to Sunak’s plan to only go to 80% EV sales in 2030, rather than 100%. To go to 100% is argued for on the grounds that the extra 20% is in some way helping to lessen global warming and extreme weather. Despite the obvious fact that the difference between 80% and 100% new EV sales in 2030 can make no difference to either UK emissions, global emissions, global temperatures or global weather.

This style of argument is characteristic of religious belief, where the important thing about a policy is testifying to belief, not the effects it has in the real world. Obviously nothing that NZ does about energy can have the slightest effect on ‘helping the planet’.

So explain again why exactly you want to do it.

The argument from fuel cost is one you keep using, but have never justified by any study or any real world example. What you have to show is that the complete system of wind+solar+backup has, over its life, a lower cost, as measured by Net Present Value of the total cash flows, than a system using conventional generation technology.

You’ve never given any reference, nor even any back of envelope calculations to show that.

NZ is very unusual. It seems plausible that hydro is very cost effective in NZ, particularly because it was presumably all built before the age of climate hysteria. But in this respect NZ is quite exceptional in its endowment of sites. Quebec is another case.

But to show that replacing its small amount of coal and/or gas facilities with wind is either possible or cost effective still requires a quantified argument. You keep asserting this, but with no evidence its a matter of a sort of cult-like belief, an article of faith. If its true, show it.

The problem that the UK, Australia, NZ and large areas of the US have is that ideologists with no professional qualifications or even interest in mastering the subject think they are qualified to act as amateur grid planners for the rest of us. Because they are righteous, apparently.

Go do some serious professional planning work, in a context where you will be accountable for your claims, and one could start to take them seriously.

Graham
Reply to  Nick Stokes
October 3, 2023 3:00 am

Nick you still don’t know what you are talking about .
Jacinda threatened to shut down some of our geothermal power stations because they emitted to much CO2 in their steam .
They are still generating .
As I have written many times here New Zealands emissions are very low per capita but activists wanting to cripple our country thought up a way to cost every New Zealander much more emissions than we actually emit.
This was at the Kyoto Accord when Helen Clarke who was our Prime Minister attended correctly thinking that our emissions were low .
METHANE from our farmed live stock will heat the world was the false message from these people .
The facts are that methane from farmed live stock is a closed cycle and can never warm the world .
This is very simple Nick and with your scientific training you will agree with me .
All fodder consumed by farmed animals has absorbed CO2 from the atmosphere to grow .
The very small amount of methane emitted during digestion of the fodder is broken down into CO2 and water vapour in the upper atmosphere in around 10 years .
Not one additional atom of carbon or molecule containing carbon ( CO2 or CH4 ) are added to the worlds atmosphere over any 10 year time span .
Between 1999 and 2009 atmospheric methane levels were stable so that shows there was no problem with enteric methane from farmed livestock .
World coal production was also stable at around 4.7 billion tonnes per year .
Since then world coal production has soared twice exceeding 8 billion tonnes and methane levels are moving up again .
Any scientist ,or for that matter any one can soon see that enteric methane can never warm the world and they should stand up and tell the truth .

Mr.
Reply to  Nick Stokes
October 2, 2023 8:25 pm

Nick, hydro isn’t the backup for wind.

It’s the mainstay.

Wind is a dabble

michael hart
October 2, 2023 4:24 pm

Excellent article. I had many questions and found most of them answered.

Noteworthy that solar is so low. I’m pretty sure some European countries are building it out on land with less sunshine. From wiki-spit, lowest recorded annual sunshine was 1333 hours at Invercargill, NZ, which is almost identical to the average for the whole of the UK. But then, it’s often not about reality with these schemes.

Australia has all the sunshine it needs. And NZ is better placed than almost any other country to make use of pumped-storage for the renewables. But still, they just don’t seem to cut the mustard.

Duker
Reply to  michael hart
October 2, 2023 6:23 pm

Pumped storage is just a ponzi scheme for the generators , especially wind at night, when it overwise has zero value
A $20 bill cost ? Dont make me laugh

I understnd theres an aluminium smelter which has a dedicated 800MW hydro station a few hundred miles away.
When the smelter contract ends , dont use the hydro system for general power but as a dedicated backup system. It its like a natural pumped storage system with a lake and a steep fall in some tunnels to sea level- except it doesnt require to buy power from the generators as it doesnt need pumping uphill which make it very cheap to run

Philip in New Zealand
Reply to  Duker
October 2, 2023 6:50 pm

A maximum of 540MW is used by the smelter which produces some of the highest quality aluminium in the world (and at the lowest carbon footprint if that is important), It also employs a large number of people. There is no way of getting that 540MW from the bottom of the south island to the top of the north island where it is needed.

Graham
Reply to  Duker
October 3, 2023 1:45 pm

That is the first sensible post I have seen from you Duker .
Pumped storage is extremely expensive as far more electricity is used to pump water up to a lake than that water will ever generate .
The best and by far the cheapest solutions are small scale dams on small rivers that only generate power during peak periods .
There are two schemes that work very well on a tributary of the Mokau River but it is now almost impossible to construct any more .
These were built by King Country Energy and produce peak power for two hours morning and night .

Philip in New Zealand
Reply to  michael hart
October 2, 2023 6:29 pm

New Zealand to a large extent has avoided the massive subsidies some countries pay for solar and wind generation, therefore subsidy mining has not existed up to now. The reality is as a country it is too far south (the most southern solar farm in Australia is at the same latitude as Albany north of Auckland see also articles on Air Mass) , has too little sun and peak demand is 9am or 6pm in winter for solar to be economical on a grid scale. Even government reports show maximum capacity factors of 20% although some developers of solar projects are claiming a far higher projected output.

Rod Evans
Reply to  Philip in New Zealand
October 2, 2023 11:31 pm

Philip, I don’t think NZ’s latitude is too far south for solar. Its position is the same as Spain’s latitude which s regarded as the prime location for solar farms. Unfortunately, solar farms are big on hype and low on delivery. For that reason NZ is wise to avoid the unnecessary venture into solar energy never clever land. NZ should stick to hydro and geo, with wind providing support where it can, though that is an expensive virtue signal option when comparer to coal and gas. A few micro nuclear would be ideal but that requires a change of nuclear policy. Maybe one day.

Philip in New Zealand
Reply to  Rod Evans
October 3, 2023 12:57 am

Spanish solar farms are concentrated in the south where for example Seville gets about 3,279 hours of sun per year compared to Hamilton in New Zealand at 2,020 hours (same latitude) or Auckland at 2,003 hours. Also wholesale electricity prices appear to be considerably lower in New Zealand than Spain.
Look at Air Mass eg in Wikipedia which shows the lower the sun is in the sky the lower the output of a solar panel as the sun looses energy travelling a greater distance through the atmosphere. You can see this by comparing winter and summer peak outputs of solar farms on a sunny day.

jimbob
October 4, 2023 12:56 am

The Power supply in NZ is remarkably stable, but despite people saving on power usage, the power supply companies have still subverted consumer efforts. Simple .. most of their supply comes from one National Generation Supplier to the various Supply Companies, so variation of pricing is fairly limited. The supply companies have primarily two charges (fixed per-day charge and usage KWH) Most of the increase now is based on fixed per-day charge. Mine has increased 10% whilst usage charge has barely moved. Certainty of money for the Supply Company with now little incentive to save power usage. Whilst Government exhorts solar/wind, the reality is entirely different. Payback on Solar for individual houses is 15+ years to achieve payback on the investment IF the Supply Companies don’t do a “Bait and Switch” on the credit fed back into the power grid

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