Willie Soon at Hillsdale CERES team-leader 4/11/2022

Are you or Have you Ever Published the Work of a Climate Skeptic?

Essay by Eric Worrall

Dr. Willie Soon emailed me the curious case of an editor of the journal Climate apparently being investigated by NASA GISS director Gavin Schmidt, for publishing Soon’s study.

The trigger for this request may have been recent studies covered by WUWT, which highlights the possibility much reported global warming may be urban heat island effect.

There have been some rather intense exchanges of ideas since the papers were published. Dr. Gavin Schmidt wrote a critique on real climate, in which Gavin accused Dr. Willie Soon of being a “crowd pleaser”, and of using outdated Solar data.

Soon responded to this critique, by accusing Schmidt of raising straw man objections, and suggested Schmidt is taking too narrow and simplistic a view of solar TSI reconstructions.

In the midst of this rather heated debate, Schmidt launched a FOIA action to research whether any employees of the Federal Government used government time or resources to correspond with Dr. Willie Soon, and other authors of the controversial studies. It is notable that Dr. Schmidt used his university account, and sent the FOIA request on Sunday – “Federal employees may not use government time or equipment when requesting information under the FOIA.”. Schmidt may have learned from last time his hat juggling, switching between acting as a powerful government official and a private person, got a little messy.

The last line of Schmidt’s FOIA request is an eye opener:

Since I am pursuing this request to better understand and publicise the actions of federal officials working in their official capacity, and since I will publicise any relevant findings on my longstanding and award-winning web blog (realclimate.org), I request a waiver of any fees associated with this request.”

It would be a tragedy if this FOIA request, and the stated intention to “publicise the actions of federal officials” signals that Dr. Gavin Schmidt is following the footsteps of the worst alleged abusers in the Climategate emails, by putting pressure on journal editors and federal employees who cooperate with the production of studies he doesn’t like.

I’m not saying this is what is happening, but I think given the ugly history of alleged bullying in the field of climate science which was revealed by Climategate, a complete explanation of Dr Gavin Schmidt’s intentions is in order.

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Tom Halla
September 15, 2023 2:05 pm

Gavin Schmidt is trying for the Trofim Lysenko, “off to the reeducation camp with you” award.

Alan Watt, Climate Denialist Level 7
September 15, 2023 2:10 pm

Hmm. At first glance I don’t see Willis Eschenbach, Steve McIntyre, Rodger Pelke (Sr. or Jr.), Judith Curry or Ross McKitrick. I’m sure I’m leaving out others, but Willis in particular must be disappointed.

Maybe someone could file a FOIA request asking for all emails between Gavin Schmidt and anyone at Twitter/Facebook requesting “climate misinformation” posters be shut down?

Renee
Reply to  Alan Watt, Climate Denialist Level 7
September 15, 2023 2:22 pm

I believe the list is the authors from Dr. Soon’s latest publication.

KevinM
Reply to  Alan Watt, Climate Denialist Level 7
September 15, 2023 8:25 pm

FOIA request
I think: Nosy snoopers, nuisance detracts from real work or keeps dirty laundry off the default communication channel.
Then I think: I don’t assume my work computer is private. Also, they too public funding.

ToldYouSo
Reply to  Alan Watt, Climate Denialist Level 7
September 16, 2023 11:25 am

Since President Joe Biden has publicly declared “climate change” to be a existential threat to humanity, how about a Gavin Schmidt-like FOIA call for the White House to release all emails to/from the President that contain the phrase “climate change”.

After all, Biden is a “federal official working in an official capacity”.

I too request a waiver of any fees associated with this request.

Mr.
September 15, 2023 2:21 pm

Don’t ya just love it?

Gavin Goebels appoints himself as the commissar for climate info integrity.

Editor
September 15, 2023 2:23 pm

Gavin Schmidt needs to be given pitiless publicity (a process for public protection recommended by Ralph Waldo Emerson in 1860).

HAS
September 15, 2023 2:28 pm

I think for precisely the reasons given he should be charged for the FOI request, he’s seeking to profit from click bait.

I’m also amazed at the pomposity shown. Is he really that lacking in self awareness?

David Wojick
Reply to  HAS
September 15, 2023 5:20 pm

As Hansen’s successor he is completely lacking. He sees himself as the scientific savior of humanity from itself. Actually Hansen, an old hippy, had a self depracading sense of humor, which Gavin completely lacks.

Mike
Reply to  HAS
September 15, 2023 7:33 pm

Is he really that lacking in self awareness?”
Yes. In one breath he admits to models running hot and in the next he declares to know precisely how much heating is caused by human activity. A real creep show,

KevinM
Reply to  HAS
September 15, 2023 8:28 pm

Prompting the question: who does his annual review?

philincalifornia
Reply to  HAS
September 15, 2023 9:38 pm

“Is he really lacking in self awareness?”

Well he doesn’t seem to understand that he’s having a sh!tty scientific career, so probably yes.

Nick Stokes
September 15, 2023 2:30 pm

I too was curious about the reappearance of WUWT’s old friend Volokin in the role of MDPI gatekeeper.

bnice2000
Reply to  Nick Stokes
September 15, 2023 4:32 pm

You mean someone that showed that the name of the person publishing affected if a paper could get through “climate” peer-review on not.?

Thus exposing the deceit of the climate cabal?

The paper went through a normal blind peer-review and was accepted based on its scientific value.”

Face-plant Nick-pick.. face-plants again !

Nick Stokes
Reply to  bnice2000
September 15, 2023 4:50 pm

Their worry was that Willis E had previously exposed their nonsense and they didn’t want any reviewers finding that on Google.

bnice2000
Reply to  Nick Stokes
September 15, 2023 5:17 pm

Wrong, he found issues with their basic calculation in an old paper.

Nothing to do with this paper.

Why the attempt at petty distraction.. as always. ?

karlomonte
Reply to  bnice2000
September 16, 2023 6:03 am

Its what he does.

Reply to  Nick Stokes
September 16, 2023 12:31 pm

yes.

These guys are so predictable.

They need some lessons in operational security.

Of course the tricks they play are limited.

want to prove a connection bewteen sunspots and climate.

  1. play games with the sunspot data.
  2. create bogus surface records.

as if those of us who work on this data cant see exactly what the game is.

Then you just have to ask. how did the shit get past review?

  1. bad review or pal review
  2. compromised editor
  3. compromised journal.
bnice2000
Reply to  Steven Mosher
September 16, 2023 8:48 pm

No need to create bogus surface records.. Just use GISS or something that resembles it.

They used Sun-spot data that hadn’t been “played with”

Pal-review.. seriously… the whole AGW scam is built on pal-review. !

No evidence the editor is compromised… not like the ones that let themselves get bullied by anti-science climate activists.

Compromised journal.?? Not this is NOT Nature-Climate or PLOS, or any of the AGW scam journals that are compromised by having rabid alarmists as editors.

Yes we can all see the games of the AGW scammers.

Pity you can’t allow yourself to.

—–

–want to prove a connection between CO2 and climate

1… play games with the climate models making baseless anti-science assumption.

2… create bogus surface records…. plenty to choose from. !

.

bnice2000
Reply to  bnice2000
September 16, 2023 9:18 pm

–want to prove a connection between CO2 and climate”

Oh wait..

Even after all the data fabrication and other shenanigans…

…YOU CAN’T !!

Giving_Cat
September 15, 2023 2:30 pm

Gavin “Glass Houses” Schmidt

Streetcred
Reply to  Giving_Cat
September 15, 2023 6:06 pm

“Glass-jaw”

ResourceGuy
September 15, 2023 2:33 pm

It does make you wonder what McCarthyism and Hollywood blacklisting would have looked like with organized lack of media coverage.

Scissor
September 15, 2023 2:36 pm

I always considered Hillsdale to be a hick town (my father was born there) and I had to visit it many times as a child with my parents and siblings mainly to attend the farmer’s auction on Saturdays at the county fairgrounds.

https://www.hillsdaleauction.com/

My great grandfather on my father’s side had a 100 acre farm there. I imagine that he and my grandparents went to that auction also.

September 15, 2023 2:41 pm

Dr. Willie Soon emailed me the curious case of an editor of the journal Climate apparently being investigated by NASA GISS director Gavin Schmidt, for publishing Soon’s study.Dr. Willie Soon emailed me the curious case of an editor of the journal Climate apparently being investigated by NASA GISS director Gavin Schmidt, for publishing Soon’s study.

Ya’ll need to remember the Tallbloke fiasco when it comes to sketical publications,

especially, solar “science”

if you dif hard enough here you will find another fraud in the pile

Ned Nikolov,

yes, The guy who made up fraudulet data in one paper and then cited it in another.

at the bottom when you dig into Wiliie soon solar science you will finf Ned pulling the strings.

ya’ll got scammed again.

Mr.
Reply to  Eric Worrall
September 15, 2023 3:18 pm

Similarly, could it be that Barak “Rising Seas” Obama bought 2 sea-front properties for himself just to prove to the world that he was right?
(waiting, waiting, waiting . . . )

KevinM
Reply to  Mr.
September 15, 2023 8:36 pm

The purchases communicate IBGYBG more than faith or disbelief in AGW.

Mike
Reply to  Eric Worrall
September 15, 2023 7:38 pm

Learn how to write for Christ sake.

bnice2000
Reply to  Mike
September 15, 2023 9:00 pm

I assume that was aimed at moosh ! not Eric.

Mike
Reply to  bnice2000
September 15, 2023 11:34 pm

Yes. Apologies to Eric. I pushed the wrong thingy.
Mr. M. Learn to write for Christ sake.

Graemethecat
Reply to  Mike
September 16, 2023 3:59 am

Mosh is remarkably inarticulate for an English graduate.

Ben Vorlich
Reply to  Graemethecat
September 16, 2023 4:18 am

You don’t have to be articulate to get an English Degree

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Graemethecat
September 16, 2023 4:29 am

Steven is not very good at copying and pasting, either.

bnice2000
Reply to  Eric Worrall
September 15, 2023 7:44 pm

is wrong and morally repugnant.”

So exactly the sort of thing we would expect Nick to support. !

slowroll
Reply to  Steven Mosher
September 15, 2023 3:09 pm

Who got scammed? You have that bass akwards.

TimTheToolMan
Reply to  Steven Mosher
September 15, 2023 3:15 pm

Well I didn’t recall that fraud. I spent a bit of time looking and didn’t find it. Do you have a reference?

Nick Stokes
Reply to  TimTheToolMan
September 15, 2023 6:18 pm

Covered by WUWT here.

bnice2000
Reply to  Nick Stokes
September 15, 2023 6:42 pm

Not fraud… just a difference of opinion… ie science correction/ lack of agreement.

This is what science should be.., scientific correction of what they see as other people’s errors.

NOT trying to bully other people because you don’t like their conclusions.

Why can’t you argue against this paper, little trollette?

Do you need someone else to do it for you?

Nick Stokes
Reply to  bnice2000
September 15, 2023 7:03 pm

The article is not about the paper. It is about the relationship between the authors and the editor, Ned Nikolov.

bnice2000
Reply to  Nick Stokes
September 15, 2023 7:40 pm

WOW, scientists discuss science.. whoopy -doo !!

Why not bring up the incestuous relationship between all the climate scammers, nick-pick..

You KNOW you cannot argue the science.

You KNOW you are incapable of it, like Gavin is incapable of it.

So you try the “slime” route.

And fail even at that, ending up slithering around in your own slime.

Ben Vorlich
Reply to  Nick Stokes
September 16, 2023 4:20 am

But Phil Jones and his cohorts and their relationship with journal editors and and reviewers was fine. You know which bit of those emails I’m referring to.

TimTheToolMan
Reply to  Nick Stokes
September 16, 2023 5:37 am

It works both ways. For example anything that Michael Mann is involved in is guaranteed to be ideologically biased and driven by agenda. There are a number of “scientists” who fall in that bucket where we can safely say their paper is likely worthless.

MCourtney
Reply to  Steven Mosher
September 15, 2023 3:41 pm

Doesn’t this miss the point?
It matters if the science is rubbish, yes. But that’s not what the issue is here.
It also matters if the response to the science is rubbish.

If a thief picks your pocket you have every right to be offended. And you can respond by catching the pickpocket for prosecution and trial. That is defending justice.
Or…
If a thief picks your pocket you have every right to be offended. And you can respond by catching the pickpocket for for an apocalyptic beating and then take all that they have on them for recompense. That is vengeance.

In this case it matters NOT if the science is rubbish. The choice is between defending the principle (science, or justice in my analogy) or just going medieval on their backsides.

This is a retreat from the enlightenment.

KevinM
Reply to  MCourtney
September 15, 2023 8:42 pm

Classic description of the Western moral system being abandoned by Western culture. I’d call it an overshoot of The Enlightenment. There’s a philosophy thesis hiding in that post.

Disputin
Reply to  MCourtney
September 16, 2023 2:50 am

Well done, MCourtney, you made some sort of sense out of what Mosher wrote. I gave up.

bnice2000
Reply to  Steven Mosher
September 15, 2023 4:00 pm

The AGW scammer are the very last to be accusing anyone of using fraudulent data.!

You get scammed… ALWAYS, by the farcical AGW meme.

Note that Gavin is using his government paid email….. oh the ironing.. it burns. !

Soon et al are doing scientific research, there is absolutely zero reason that they shouldn’t use the job emails.

It is people like H-Clinton, etc that have to use hidden emails.

bnice2000
Reply to  bnice2000
September 15, 2023 5:18 pm

Seems Gavin also uses several hidden email accounts….. oh dearie me. !

KevinM
Reply to  bnice2000
September 15, 2023 8:45 pm

hidden email accounts“: Unfortunate side effect of FOIA. I hope he gas the sense to use encryption. As Hillary understood, it would stink to become a puppet for gmail or hotmail or whoever.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  bnice2000
September 16, 2023 4:36 am

“It is people like H-Clinton, etc that have to use hidden emails.”

Or like Joe Biden (JRB[e]Ware.whatever). That’s almost as good as “Carlos Danger”.

Gunga Din
Reply to  Tom Abbott
September 16, 2023 8:41 am

Don’t forget Michael Mann!

bnice2000
Reply to  Steven Mosher
September 15, 2023 4:20 pm

The only part of your comment that looks like it wasn’t written by a 5-year-old is the part you copy/pasted as a quote.

Noted that you are again incapable of actually arguing against any of the actual science.

You are the very last person to talk about fraud…passing yourself off as a scientist, to get a job at BEST.

And from the nature of your comments, I suspect the Eng-Lit thing is also very much a LIE.

Streetcred
Reply to  bnice2000
September 15, 2023 6:11 pm

I’m suspecting an early onset of dementia there … incoherent combative argument, bit like Tourette syndrome.

philincalifornia
Reply to  Streetcred
September 15, 2023 9:34 pm

It can’t be that early. He’s been doing it for 15 years on here. Some kind of syndrome though. Is there one that’s heavily associated with not being able to accept facts, one that’s also combined with bad grammar?

Simon
Reply to  bnice2000
September 16, 2023 1:19 pm

You are the very last person to talk about fraud”
And you are the very last person to put someone down for speaking like a five year old given the childish putdowns you use.

bnice2000
Reply to  Simon
September 16, 2023 8:52 pm

So , again, little simon tries to say something..

… but can only mange a plaintive little grunt..

So sad.

It is easy.. you can stop speaking like a 5-year-old .. if you can !

bnice2000
Reply to  Simon
September 16, 2023 9:21 pm

Oh, and if you feel you need your nappy changed….

…. I’m sure moosh or Nick would love to help you. !

bnice2000
Reply to  Steven Mosher
September 15, 2023 8:04 pm

The guy who made up fraudulet data”

Yet you give a free pass to Mickey Mann, and the whole AGW scam…

.. which is built from the very ground up on fraudulent data. !

Who is it that has their hand up your……… controlling your muppet-like comments, moosh

Whoever it is, they need to find a new muppet !

HotScot
Reply to  Steven Mosher
September 16, 2023 2:31 am

Hey Mushy,

Every climate change supporting paper is fraudulent.

But you wouldn’t know that because Ya’ll ain’t a scientist.

Fran
September 15, 2023 2:50 pm

My condolences to those whose names do not appear on the list. Being left out hurts.

It doesnot add up
September 15, 2023 2:53 pm

Here’s Gavin’s pile-on against Hermann Harde (see also the earlier bashes he links to):

https://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2018/04/harde-times/

There’s some deeply unpleasant attitudes from those he stirs into action, and from himself. Along with some comments that display their author’s lack of real understanding.

I don’t think it leave much room for doubt as to the nature of what he intends to publish.

bnice2000
Reply to  It doesnot add up
September 15, 2023 4:13 pm

Isn’t Gavin the little coward that ran away from debating Roy Spencer.

Alan Watt, Climate Denialist Level 7
Reply to  bnice2000
September 15, 2023 4:37 pm

Absolutely correct. Gavin Schmidt refused to appear with John Stossel if Roy Spencer was in the same room:

<https://youtu.be/HLgUv_znMMw&gt;

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Alan Watt, Climate Denialist Level 7
September 16, 2023 4:44 am

Ole Gavin wasn’t so sure of himself then. He can’t defend his positions with Roy Spencer present, so he runs away.

Gavin doesn’t want people to know that the climate science is not settled. That’s what Roy would tell them, and Gavin doesn’t want them to hear it.

Gavin is the one scamming everybody.

Simon
Reply to  Tom Abbott
September 16, 2023 1:21 pm

Except Roy Spencer does accept that the modern day warming is in part due to man made C02, he just doesn’t think the future is bleak.

Gunga Din
Reply to  Simon
September 16, 2023 3:27 pm

So why did Gavin run and hide from him?

bnice2000
Reply to  Simon
September 16, 2023 8:54 pm

accept…..

but like you.. he can’t prove it with any science.

Your future is bleak, that is for sure.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Simon
September 17, 2023 3:25 am

“accept”

Based on what? Speculation and assmption? Answer: That’s exactly right.

No matter whether it is Gavin or Roy, both, are speculation about what CO2 will or will not do in the Earth’s atmosphere. If a person wants to accept speculation and assumptions as facts, that’s their business. But I don’t accept it and have no problem saying so. And will criticize anyone who does put speculation and assumption forth as being facts, and that would include Roy.

I’m pretty sure Roy would say that we don’t know all we need to know about CO2 and the Earth’s climate, and I don’t think Gavin wants people to hear that. Gavin wants everyone to think CO2 is dangerous to mankind, and that he, Gavin, knows just what to do to fix everything. Roy would show this is not true.

Philip Mulholland
September 15, 2023 2:55 pm

Specifically, I request all emails to and from the address Ned Nikolov (and other relevant aliases) and any other of the following people or emails that mention them:

That list of names is truly a role of honour.

Rud Istvan
September 15, 2023 2:57 pm

This sort of thing suggests we are winning and Gavin’s side is losing.
Warmunists cannot silence the western internet. And on the internet (as here at WUWT, Climate Etc, Polar Bear Science, Manhattan Contrarian, and many others) facts are being revealed to which they have NO responses other than to try silencing the revealers, as here. Won’t work. Trying reveals desperation.

Three simple basics:

  1. The supposed to have happened by now expert predictions didn’t happen. seal level rise did not accelerate, summer Arctic sea ice did not disappear, and Glacier National Park still has glaciers. UK children still know snow.
  2. The climate models predicting ruin are proven falsified. They produce a tropical troposphere hot spot that does not exist (only exception is CMIP6 INM CM5). They produce a median ECS ~twice observational EBM ECS.
  3. At any meaningful grid penetration, renewables are ruinables. They sharply raise electricity prices since there is no solution to intermittency. Forces the grid to maintain redundant underutilized dispatchable backup for about 75% of the time. A costly necessity for grid reliability.
Rud Istvan
Reply to  Rud Istvan
September 15, 2023 3:00 pm

Sea not seal. Missed edit window by ‘that much’

Mr.
Reply to  Rud Istvan
September 15, 2023 3:25 pm

But seal level has accelerated in the Pacific NorthWest waters.

So much so that WA and BC fisheries are considering a cull.

Nothing to do with global warming or rising seas though, just easy meals for seals from fishing trawl nets.

DonM
Reply to  Mr.
September 15, 2023 4:12 pm

When you get a fish on line, you cannot stand up in your boat. If you do, the seals see you, know what is going on, and home in on your actions.

Stay seated, consider it a challenge, and work it out that way.

(or shoot the seals and hope you don’t get caught.)

Rod Evans
Reply to  Rud Istvan
September 15, 2023 11:56 pm

I am still trying to find the edit button, ‘dame’ these new edit limits. I agree rising seals are good for Polar Bears too.

slowroll
Reply to  Rud Istvan
September 15, 2023 3:13 pm

Not to mention the warmunists have never provided emperical evidence that CO2 has any warming effect at all, outside their beloved models.

Rud Istvan
Reply to  slowroll
September 15, 2023 3:38 pm

True, but IMO not dispositive. CO2 IS a GHG. Proven by Tyndall in 1859. So it must have some effect. But because of natural variation, we dunno how much. Observations say not too much except for greening, models say a lot.

David Pentland
Reply to  Rud Istvan
September 15, 2023 4:29 pm

“CO2 IS a GHG. So it must have some effect…we dunno how much”.
All true.
What is the proper use of our limited resources? Mitigate or adapt?

bnice2000
Reply to  Rud Istvan
September 15, 2023 5:34 pm

No, Tyndal proved it is a “radiatively active” gas.

Tyndall did not prove anything about any “greenhouse” actions in the atmosphere…

He did no such experiments.

That was all just conjecture.

Mike
Reply to  Rud Istvan
September 15, 2023 7:42 pm

Observations say not too much”
Observations say nothing of the sort.

bnice2000
Reply to  Mike
September 15, 2023 7:57 pm

Observations don’t show ANY warming by atmospheric CO2.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Mike
September 16, 2023 4:54 am

What do your observations say?

Mike
Reply to  Tom Abbott
September 16, 2023 7:31 pm

My observations say…. ”I cannot show you any effects of human co2 from here”

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Mike
September 17, 2023 3:29 am

Oh, good! You look at things just like me! 🙂

Javier Vinós
Reply to  Rud Istvan
September 15, 2023 3:35 pm

To that, we must add that academic publishing usually has a very low readership. Besides costing money for most of the papers, the immense majority of them get very few citations meaning they barely make any impact. In front of that, Willie Soon et al. paper had 30,000 downloads in a week. That must hurt. And any article in WUWT, Climate Etc, Jo Nova, and so on gets many thousands of readings.

Controlling academic publishing isn’t such a great thing if nobody cares.

September 15, 2023 2:59 pm

well well well

Patrick Brown at least had the guts to tell on himself

but Willie Soon?

nope .

here is how skeptics publish.

scam number one. Create a sham journal. eg Tallblokes, patterns in physics. where skeptics rervew each others papers. check kiting anf money laundering.

scam number 2. eg Ned Nikolov. write papers under psuedonyms citing each other to cover the self citing. that would be like me citing Evets Rehsom.

scam number 3. Ned and willie take over a pay for play journal

Now, how do we know somethings rotten in Willies paper.

  1. ita about the sun, and willis has demonstrated countless times the bogus claims of sun nuts
  2. it uses sun spots and does use Leif’s data
  3. it uses scafetta.
  4. it gets rural sites wrong.

then the only question is How did the garbage get published. dig into the pile

what do you find: tallbloke, Ned, and other known frauds.

too bad cause willie was an honorable guy

https://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2022/06/24/ned-nikolov-call-for-papers-special-issue-of-mdpis-journal-climate/

Giving_Cat
Reply to  Steven Mosher
September 15, 2023 3:44 pm

Libel.

ThinkingScientist
Reply to  Giving_Cat
September 15, 2023 3:59 pm

Yep. Never forget what happened when Fred Singer was libelled.

ThinkingScientist
Reply to  Steven Mosher
September 15, 2023 3:49 pm

I used to get annoyed with your short, incomprehensible drive by postings.

I now realise your long ones are even worse.

It never ceases to amaze me how an English graduate can write such appalling, unsubstantiated and garbled nonsense.

Scissor
Reply to  ThinkingScientist
September 15, 2023 4:19 pm

He can’t spell solecism, so he thinks he’s a scientist.

Chris Hanley
Reply to  ThinkingScientist
September 15, 2023 5:48 pm

Words are symbols expressing thoughts, ‘garbled nonsense’ gives an insight into an author’s state of mind.

HAS
Reply to  Steven Mosher
September 15, 2023 3:54 pm

Obviously a passionate POV, calls for a paper. Now where to publish 🙂

Rud Istvan
Reply to  Steven Mosher
September 15, 2023 4:09 pm

You know, Steve, I know you. Have helped you bigly elsewhere. This post was uncalled for. Do I believe the Soon et al Sunstuff? No. Said so before, and gave several cogent reasons. You can critique better than you did.

bnice2000
Reply to  Steven Mosher
September 15, 2023 4:10 pm

Another incoherent load of random garbage from the FAILED Eng-lit student.

Noted that you have not provided a single relevant counter to anything in any of the papers.

1,2,3, 4.. All anti-science opinions from a childish non-scientist.. irrelevant and meaningless.

1…. Yes it is about the Sun.. certainly no evidence of CO2 warming

2…. Lief went out of his way to flatten the solar data.. it is no more relevant than GISS et al.

3…. It uses several different interpretations.. you are the very last person to say any of them is incorrect.

4… yes it failed to realise that many rural sites are also affected by urban heat, thus massively underestimated the urban warming percentage.

Too bad moosh is a deceitful, dishonourable, LYING AGW patsy, and consorts with known fraudsters. !

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  bnice2000
September 16, 2023 3:58 am

“Eng-lit student” ??

Oh, just like Al Gore and Bill McKibben- both, I think at Hah-vid 🙂

Bob Weber
Reply to  bnice2000
September 16, 2023 4:51 am

“2…. Lief went out of his way to flatten the solar data.. it is no more relevant than GISS et al.”

I challenge you or anyone to show us where Leif was wrong. He work is far more relevant than you know. Go through his research papers to find out why.

comment image

This entire pointless charade was completely avoidable by Soon etal if they had just been paying attention here at WUWT 7-10 years ago, and that goes for Jim Steele too who was also on the paper. There is no excuse for them using the HS93 reconstruction, and there is no excuse for omitting over Leif’s reconstruction other than ignorance.

Willie Soon NEVER comments here at WUWT, something I personally don’t respect.

bnice2000
Reply to  Bob Weber
September 16, 2023 1:20 pm

A deliberately “adjustment” data, lifting the past in an attempt to take it out of contention of causing warming

Just like GISS cooling the past. to create warming.

He even flagged that he was going to do it.. just like the AGW scammers did with the 1940s “peak.

There is no reason TO use his new fabrication.

.

Bob Weber
Reply to  bnice2000
September 17, 2023 5:14 am

“A deliberately “adjustment” data, lifting the past in an attempt to take it out of contention of causing warming”

I want you to recognize a bad attitude about Leif Svalgaard’s work is unjustified.

It is not necessary to invoke more disparity between past and present as there is enough difference in the flattened solar activity history to explain global warming.

Like the others, you are very much mistaken as to the implications and Leif’s motivations. The trouble is those like you who complain also don’t calculate.

I am paraphrasing here but if he said the new numbers would make it harder to prove solar forcing, which was true, it was harder, he also didn’t know someone like me would come along and actually do it right by using his sunspot numbers.

I have shown my calculations many times before, here and elsewhere:

comment image

bnice2000
Reply to  Steven Mosher
September 15, 2023 4:43 pm

Moosh just doesn’t like the fact that they found a way to get around the climate scam journal gatekeepers.

So sad. ! 😉

bnice2000
Reply to  Steven Mosher
September 15, 2023 6:48 pm

where skeptics rervew each others papers.”

You mean like AGW apostles/echo-lytes peer-reviewing and citing each other’s nonsense papers ?

Is that it ?

Javier Vinós
Reply to  Steven Mosher
September 16, 2023 12:59 am

willis has demonstrated countless times the bogus claims of sun nuts

Willis hasn’t demonstrated anything about the Sun. It shows you’re not a scientist. A negative result does not demonstrate something doesn’t exist or doesn’t happen. It only shows it doesn’t happen in a very specific way under a certain set of assumptions.

I sometimes wonder if you joined the dark side because your brain stopped working or if your brain stopped working because you joined the dark side.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Steven Mosher
September 16, 2023 3:54 am

“sun nuts” ???

glad to know that the sun has NOTHING to do with the trivial weather anomalies that people whine about

bnice2000
Reply to  Steven Mosher
September 16, 2023 7:12 pm

From moosh’s link…

Highly prioritized for inclusion are studies that are empirical in nature and not solely reliant on complex theoretical models. The aim of this Special Issue is to advance our fundamental understanding of natural climate drivers

Oh dearie me.. we can’t have empirical studies seeking a better understanding.. as opposed to “climate models”…

now can we.

Sorry Moosh, but your link says absolutely nothing wrong… seems you are the fraud. !!

bnice2000
September 15, 2023 4:27 pm

I would have thought it totally appropriate for people studying science to communicate using the email address of the places they work.

In fact, doing otherwise, would be highly dubious unless it was to organise a BBQ or something.

Streetcred
September 15, 2023 6:05 pm

Who the fk does Herr Schmidt think that he is … smells like a misuse of authority, corruption and potential workplace bullying.

bnice2000
Reply to  Streetcred
September 15, 2023 6:45 pm

Yep, Gavin is a petty bully, just like Mickey Mann…

… until confronted…

… then he runs away like he did from Roy Spencer.

They do this because they know they cannot win an argument on the actual science.

Joe Gordon
September 15, 2023 7:13 pm

I saw a movie called “Trumbo” a couple of years ago. It was about Dalton Trumbo, who was a screenwriter during the 1950s who was black-balled for association with suspected Communists.

We all know the plot. In the movie, the government officials, including ringleader Joseph McCarthy, were not exactly presented in a favorable light.

If Hollywood were to create a similar movie today, focused on the government’s determination to erase anyone skeptical of the Church of Climageddon, no doubt McCarthy would be portrayed as a crusading hero.

Plus he’d have long purple hair and he’d race bicycles against women and he’d have pronouns… oh, so many pronouns.

AlanJ
September 15, 2023 7:40 pm

Why does anyone on this website care if the professional correspondence of a government official is made public following standard procedures under FOIA? Isn’t government transparency like… a key thing the WUWT readership demand all the time?

bnice2000
Reply to  AlanJ
September 15, 2023 7:55 pm

Except you know that the slimy little Schmidt will attempt to use it as leverage of some sort….

You know that is why he is submitting this FOIA.

It is who he is, a low-level bully…

Pretending you don’t know this, just shows you are either totally dumb, or totally naive.. or both.

—-

As I said above

“I would have thought it totally appropriate for people studying science to communicate using the email address of the places they work.

In fact, doing otherwise, would be highly dubious unless it was to organise a BBQ or something.”

AlanJ
Reply to  bnice2000
September 16, 2023 5:48 am

Why do you care how Gavin will use the information as long as the information is made public? It seems like you’re all preemptively getting upset over something you should celebrate.

i don’t think anyone said it was inappropriate to use the work email, it’s just that the work email falls under FOIA.

bnice2000
Reply to  AlanJ
September 16, 2023 1:23 pm

Your naivety of the despicable, immoral and underhanded nature of the AGW priests, is hereby noted.

you are either totally dumb, or totally naive.. or both.”

Gunga Din
Reply to  AlanJ
September 16, 2023 3:17 pm

You’re assuming once he gets the names that he would make them public.
Would he make them public or pressure them to stop providing requested data?

Retired_Engineer_Jim
September 15, 2023 8:36 pm

Dr Schmidt should engage in a moderate public debate with Dr Soon on live TV.

bnice2000
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
September 15, 2023 9:03 pm

Now that would be hilarious to watch, as Schmidt get reduced to a drooling lump of ooze. 🙂

bnice2000
September 15, 2023 8:57 pm

This is actually Schmidt ADMITTING that he can’t argue against the science…

… so is going on a random fishing trip.

It is QUITE PATHETIC really !!

KevinM
September 15, 2023 9:07 pm

Another inherent problem, especially during years when the economy stinks: Want to get in that journal? buy an ad.

Coeur de Lion
September 15, 2023 11:04 pm

What has Gavin Schmidt published? Is it worth reading?

Mike
Reply to  Coeur de Lion
September 15, 2023 11:41 pm

Well he believes in ”attribution science” so the answer to that would be no.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Mike
September 16, 2023 5:13 am

I think all these climate change alarmists want to believe in attribution “science”. This way they can make their unsupported claims seem plausible.

Attribution “science”, is really just guessing. Or fraud, if the one selling is a flimflam man.

Graemethecat
Reply to  Mike
September 16, 2023 1:54 pm

“Attribution Science” is a contradiction in terms.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Graemethecat
September 17, 2023 3:30 am

That’s the way I look at it.

Ed Zuiderwijk
September 16, 2023 12:41 am

Relax. Gavin may now completely have gone over to the Dark Side, Darth Vader he is not.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Ed Zuiderwijk
September 16, 2023 5:22 am

Gavin is promoting a policy that will lead to the destruction of the United States if we continue down this Green New Deal path. And our political leaders are doing so on the recommendations of Gavin and those like him, even though Gavin couldn’t prove CO2 needs regulation if his life depended on doing so.

Gavin is presenting speculation, assumptions and unsubstantiated assertions about CO2 and the Earth’s climate and weather as being facts, when no real evidence supports claiming CO2 is a demon gas that is going to overheat the world.

Gavin is selling CONfidence levels as facts and the politicians are bankrupting our nations as a result.

I guess Darth Vader was a world destroyer. Gavin and his unproven speculation, assumptions and assertions about CO2 and the Earth’s climate is a nation destroyer.

TimTheToolMan
Reply to  Tom Abbott
September 16, 2023 5:40 am

Gavin is responsible for the livelihoods of many scientists and relies on government funding to do so. In turn he relies on alarmism to get the funding.

Shytot
September 16, 2023 3:01 am

With a name like Schmidt, you have to think that Hitler and Goebbels must be so proud of his efforts!

I’m surprised he has any time to do his real job, although as a climate believer I guess stifling honest science and abusing his position is his real job?

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Shytot
September 16, 2023 5:24 am

“although as a climate believer I guess stifling honest science and abusing his position is his real job?”

Definitely!

Joseph Zorzin
September 16, 2023 4:05 am

Gavin was recently on the YouTube channel of Tim Ventura, who interviews all sorts of people. I’ve just started watching it. If I see anything of interest I’ll get back here.

Gavin Schmidt – The Silurian Hypothesis

It’s at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OooIb-vlo_U&t=48s

The video description:

Could an advanced civilization have existed on Earth millions of years before humans? Dr. Gavin Schmidt discusses the “Silurian Hypothesis”, a thought experiment to assess our scientific ability to detect evidence of a prior advanced civilization and study the signature that our own civilization will leave behind. Dr. Gavin Schmidt is a climatologist, climate modeler Director of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies, and co-founder of the award-winning climate science blog RealClimate. Dr. Schmidt has a BA in mathematics from Oxford and a PhD in applied mathematics at University College London. He research includes work on the variability of ocean-atmosphere circulation models and paleoclimatology, and he helped develop the GISS ocean and coupled GCMs climate models. Dr. Schmidt’s awards and honors include being named one of Scientific American’s “Top 50 Research Leaders” of the year in 2004, recognition by the joint award of the Nobel Peace Prize in 2007, and being awarded the inaugural Climate Communications Prize in 2011.

bnice2000
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
September 16, 2023 4:23 am

The Silurian Hypothesis”

Poor little muppet has been watching too much Dr Who !

Developed the FAKE models…

… then FAKED the surface data in a childish attempt to match his model.

“A thought experiment…” lol !!

An experiment to see if he can think… nah… bound to be an utter failure.

Fantasize.. most certainly…

… if he has read enough Grimm Bros, and Mills and Boone.

But there is big difference between thinking, and dreaming up fantasies.

—-

Nobel Peace Prize… that’s the one that has been awarded to some of the greatest tyrants in history, isn’t it !

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
September 16, 2023 5:07 am

I’m only in to the video a few minutes and I now see what Schmidt et. al. came up with the fantasy- because they found a warming period 55M years ago and couldn’t understand why that happened so he/they speculated it might have been due to a civilization at the time. Obviously, it couldn’t happen if not driven by ignorant civilizations. 🙂

More on the Silurian fantasy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silurian_hypothesis

Gunga Din
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
September 16, 2023 3:07 pm

“Director of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies”.

Isn’t the “Goddard Institute for Space Studies” located above a corner restaurant somewhere?
Maybe they’ve moved since then.

Tom Abbott
September 16, 2023 4:16 am

From the article: “I will publicise any relevant findings on my longstanding and award-winning web blog (realclimate.org)”

Somebody gave realclimate.org an award? They give awards for lying to the public?

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Tom Abbott
September 16, 2023 8:18 am

He also doesn’t know that “blog” is a contraction (of sorts) of “web log”. Not too bright.

bnice2000
Reply to  Tom Abbott
September 16, 2023 1:55 pm

They probably gave it to themselves. !

Editor
September 16, 2023 10:29 am

Isn’t it the job of U.S.Federal Government employees to respond for requests for information from citizens including scientists involved in research? I know I have emailed back and forth with government employees at NOAA and NASA.

I do fear that the ClimateGate Gang (Version 2) is again ramping up — this is the second recent incident that I am aware of.

If Schmidt doesnt like the paper, he should write a rebuttal or a Comment to the journal, not waste tax-payers money to have the USDA dig through email servers so he can read the mail of other scientists.

Wasn’t Schmidt once found to be working on the RealClimate blog on government time?

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Kip Hansen
September 16, 2023 12:48 pm

There is nothing in Schmidt’s request that says they shouldn’t have been writing emails. He’s just asking to see what they said.

not waste tax-payers money to have the USDA dig through email servers so he can read the mail of other scientists.”

Makes me laugh.

bnice2000
Reply to  Nick Stokes
September 16, 2023 1:29 pm

Schmidt is like you, an immoral, twisted, underhanded, deceitful piece of human empty space, with zero redeeming qualities..

If you don’t realise he is hunting for some reason to get the paper he is incapable of arguing against retracted…

… then you are either incredibly dumb, totally naive.. or both.

Nick Stokes
Reply to  bnice2000
September 16, 2023 3:01 pm

MDPI does not retract papers. If you’ve paid your money, you’re in.

bnice2000
Reply to  Nick Stokes
September 16, 2023 7:05 pm

If you’ve paid your money, you’re in.”

Sort of like the climate scammers , but in reverse,… hey nick. !

Take the money and play the cult-game.

Gavin is hunting for something to discredit the authors, because he KNOWS he cannot argue the science.

Just like you, incapable. !

Editor
Reply to  Nick Stokes
September 18, 2023 3:28 pm

Nick ==> Yes, but WHY? Why is he asking, why does a “professor” at Columbia (who is also a blogger and himself a government employee) want to read the emails between other climate scientists?

Why is he concerned that they may have replied to or corresponded with a non-government-employed climate scientist(s) about data that might be incorporated into a paper, or that they might be co-authors on.

It is the norm of science that co-authors correspond with one another. Schmidt himself has done so. See the listing of his papers with their co-authors on Google Scholar.

Should we demand of all their institutions to see their emails as well?

September 16, 2023 12:35 pm

this whole willy soon story is just another chapter in how tallbloke and the sun nuts out foxed WUWT again .

bnice2000
Reply to  Steven Mosher
September 16, 2023 7:07 pm

Moosh is already a past story.

Now a mindless deranged non-entity, incapable of science or english.

Editor
Reply to  Steven Mosher
September 18, 2023 4:21 pm

Mosher ==> It takes doing science to create new knowledge. Simple rubbishing the work of others, with nonsense antagonism, because you have an alternate opinion, is not constructive and is anti-science.

It is not nutty to investigate the effects of the Sun and its variations on the climate of Earth.

Willie Soon is not just a very diligent and productive scientist, but he is a wonderful guy as a person.

Gunga Din
September 16, 2023 12:56 pm

“publicise the actions of federal officials” 

That’s the scary part. Sounds like he’s out get rid of anyone that treated data request from “Climate Heretics” as they would anyone else that requested data.

ThinkingScientist
September 16, 2023 1:30 pm

When every climate sceptic is a witch, the only thing Gavin can do is go on a witch hunt

Pat from Kerbob
Reply to  ThinkingScientist
September 17, 2023 6:47 pm

+1,000,000,000

Pat from Kerbob
September 17, 2023 7:18 am

A while back on a different site I posted a comment and link about something climate related to Gavin Schmidt and one of the usual trolls immediately posted that the person at the other end of the link I gave was “not a climate scientist”, they were a physicist.
I responded the Gavin Schmidt is a mathematician and therefore by the rules they establish, “not a climate scientist”.

Then followed bloviating arm waving as to Schmidt’s qualifications, which of course was not applied to the person I linked to.

“Not a climate scientist” is the usual insult thrown at Lomborg as well to which he nods vigorously in the affirmative as he’s an economist point out who bad an economic deal alarmism is.
His specialty.

ThinkingScientist
Reply to  Pat from Kerbob
September 19, 2023 3:53 am

Stephan Rahmstorf is a “climate scientist” and co-founder of RealClimate.

His first degree was in Oceanography at Bangor University, North Wales. He went on to study oceans, through a PhD and academic career and ended up a “climate scientist”

I studied Oceanography at Bangor University, North Wales about 2 years behind him. I went on to practice as a geophysicist and subsequently geostatistician. I have spent 40 years learning, training on and analysing geoscience datasets. I am an expert in forward and inverse modelling. I have privately been looking at “climate” datasets (temps, sea level, glacial retreat data) for the last 15 years and have taken a particular interest in a new way of modelling temperature from glacial retreat data, including coding up some forward//inverse modelling starting from published papers.

Am I a “climate scientist”?

Climate scientists are just “special” geoscientists. Climate scientists are like the philosophers Majikthise and Vroomfindel dealing with “Deep Thought” in the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.

“we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!”

“Majikthise and Vroomfondel are a lot like Benjy mouse and Frankie mouse: they look like serious thinkers, but really they are just funny, absurd, or—depending on how you feel when you’re reading—sad. They may come on to the scene sounding important, but by the time they leave, they’re just interested in what they can get out of the situation. When the narrator reminds us that “they turned on their heels and walked out of the door and into a lifestyle beyond their wildest dreams”, we understand that it’s not about truth and exploration. It’s just about money.”

Majikthise and Vroomfondel in The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy | Shmoop

ThinkingScientist
Reply to  ThinkingScientist
September 19, 2023 3:59 am

Should have added this little gem from the philosophers, but edit not working:

“I’ll tell you what the problem is mate,” said Majikthise, “demarcation, that’s the problem!”

That’s what a climate scientist is all about – job demarcation. Douglas Adams pretty much nailed it.
“We’ll go on strike!” yelled Vroomfondel.

“That’s right!” agreed Majikthise. “You’ll have a national Philosopher’s strike on your hands!”

I pray for the day that we have a climate scientist strike.

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