Essay by Eric Worrall
Tucker Carlson recently asked why claims by David Grusch that the USA is in possession of alien artefacts and spacecraft is not top news. An obvious explanation – nobody has produced any evidence.
The original claim;
INTELLIGENCE OFFICIALS SAY U.S. HAS RETRIEVED CRAFT OF NON-HUMAN ORIGIN
LESLIE KEAN AND RALPH BLUMENTHAL·JUNE 5, 2023
A former intelligence official turned whistleblower has given Congress and the Intelligence Community Inspector General extensive classified information about deeply covert programs that he says possess retrieved intact and partially intact craft of non-human origin.
The information, he says, has been illegally withheld from Congress, and he filed a complaint alleging that he suffered illegal retaliation for his confidential disclosures, reported here for the first time.
Other intelligence officials, both active and retired, with knowledge of these programs through their work in various agencies, have independently provided similar, corroborating information, both on and off the record.
The whistleblower, David Charles Grusch, 36, a decorated former combat officer in Afghanistan, is a veteran of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) and the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO). He served as the reconnaissance office’s representative to the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force from 2019-2021. From late 2021 to July 2022, he was the NGA’s co-lead for UAP analysis and its representative to the task force.
…
Read more: https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/
Can you imagine the value of even a small item of alien origin, produced by science centuries or millennia ahead of our own? What impact this would have on human technology – personal nuclear reactors, AIs which can fit into a matchbox, handheld blaster guns straight out of Star Wars, all virtually overnight?
What is the chances the military could keep that kind of capability quiet?
We’d all love to believe we are not alone in a vast and so far terrifyingly empty cosmos.
But extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And nobody has produced anything like the level of evidence required to make such claims convincing.
I’ll believe in alien artefacts when someone does something tangible to prove this – shows me an alien ray gun, or lands a flying saucer somewhere public. Otherwise the latest claim looks like just another chapter of the aliens among us nonsense people have been peddling all these decades, ever since elves and fairies went out of fashion.
For what it’s worth, I’m a big Tucker fan, I think he’s done a great job of exposing corruption, and holding the powerful to account. But Tucker, please don’t ask us to believe in space aliens, unless you know someone who can show us an operational flying saucer.
Update (EW): If anyone would like a more terrestrial explanation for the apparent uptick in military UFO sitings, check out the Russian Skyfall, their “flying Chernobyl“. The Soviets developed a working nuclear powered jet plane, the Tupolev Tu-95LAL, in 1961 – if you can call “working” a flying vehicle which kills the pilots, because of the lack of radiation shielding. This was a Soviet attempt at solving the problem of reaching the US mainland, before the widespread deployment of ICBMs. So it seems plausible that Putin isn’t lying when he claims Russia has built a nuclear powered cruise missile which can stay in the air for weeks. If Russia actually does have this capability, what better target to buzz than US military vessels which mistakenly believe they are well out of aerial reconnaissance range.
In the U.K. there’s a TV Channel called Blaze
Tucker should tune in…. Everything from Ancient Alien Astronaut theorists to Alien Abduction. It has many features with the 5 guys – eg Nick Pope (ex MOD)
And it’s a load of unadulterated tosh that doesn’t stand up to a moments rational thinking.
Precisely why I suggested it
It’s not just Blaze – Discovery and History Channel are at it, which is pretty sad as they are supposedly “documentary” channels.
Over recent years I would guess that nearly 20% of programs on the Sky documentary channels are about UFO’s, ghosts and other superstitious nonsense. Very, very sad. It does feel like the world is being dumbed down.
Chris
TV today is cheap junk
Always has been.
TalkTV have also got in on the act with an ‘unexplained’ show in their programming. Pandering to conspiricists and the gullible.
The problem is that such programs are cheap to make.
After all, real experts expect to be paid.
MOD = Ministry Of Defence?
Indeed
Ministry of Defiance, the knights who say Ni!
It’s just the next way for the so called “elites” to scare us.
I think it is also a distraction to deflect attention to more important matters, like the evidence that the current president may have been guilty of bribery and treason for decades.
And to have us so scared we’ll be united in our fight against aliens, and agree they (the elites, who are alien to us) should lead us in this endeavor.
I agree. There is zero evidence. Unless you’re a conspiracy theory nutjob and believe in a government cover up. If you believe that a government could cover up something so momentous for the best part of fifty years, just think. It couldn’t even cover up a relatively trivial thing like Watergate for more than a few months. So come on nutjobs, give us a laugh andlet’s see “your” irrefutable, verifiable evidence
To be fair-ish, Tucker was apparently commenting that the lapdog media put out four stories each on racism, Trump, and climate change —“the usual lineup”—but couldn’t spare an electron for something as ho-hum as the guy who ran the ufo department claiming to blow the whistle on a government cover-up.
I don’t say that TC has a grip on the ufo question, but he has a partial point.
A “partial” point that he then completely discredited by saying, around the 7:20 to 7:25 mark :
1) “Former intel officers” don’t always “tell the truth”. See : James Clapper.
2) Just because TC, or anyone else, says that “it is clear person X is telling the truth” doesn’t automatically mean that person X is actually telling “the truth”, or even “the truth as they believe / understand it”.
I’m with Carl Sagan (and Eric) : Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
That UAP zooming over your head was the point you missed, Mark.
I don’t give any credence whatsoever to UFOs or UAPs or whatever nonsense. But the limited point I agreed with is that the lamestream press refuse even to report that an allegation was made by a witness in a position to have non-public information.
It’s one thing for a random pilot to make a claim, but qualitatively different for someone who ran a program related to investigating UAPs to allege a cover-up. Such a claim is a legitimate story regardless of whether, like you or me, we discount and disbelieve the story.
Yes Tucker discredited himself by stating that the whistleblower is unequivocally telling the truth, etc. There are a lot of times like this where I strongly suspect that he panders to wild conspiracy theories that he himself doesn’t truly believe. He’s quite entertaining at times, but I never quite feel confident that he’s sincere.
Tucker may be quite correct in stating that the whistleblower is telling the truth. Lots of people believe all kinds of crazy things, and some of them are “sane” according to psychiatric criteria. It’s just that his “truth” is pretty much a made up construction in his own mind.
“It’s not a lie if you believe it”
George Constanza
“It’s one thing for a random pilot to make a claim, but qualitatively different for someone who ran a program related to investigating UAPs to allege a cover-up.”
That is something that sets this story apart.
But, until some kind of evidence is presented, all we really have is his opinion.
Tucker said he thought the guy was telling the truth. Well, people can honestly believe things that are not true, which makes them confident in their opinion, and that sincerity transfers to others, like Tucker, but sincerity, and believing something is true, does not necessarily make that something true.
He did discredit himself with his “telling the truth” comment, to the point of making me wonder if he’d sold out and this was his first “assignment”, the selling of the UFO to his followers.
What makes me find the whole UFO thing implausible to the point of being ridiculous is this: the USA has just under 2 percent of the land area of the earth, but (just an eyeball estimate) about 97 percent of the UFO sightings. Now including US military serving overseas.
With the greatest respect, I have to say that – in my limited experience – America has (not a monopoly, just a disproportionate number) of very poorly informed and strikingly gullible people. And a segment of the media that exploits this quite shamelessly, like the tabloids you see at the supermarket checkout, for example, or Alex Jones, for another.
Remember Orson Welles’ radio drama of The War of The Worlds? That was 85 years ago, but not that much has changed, except for the media.
Another factor is the US Government spent billions developing F22 F117 B2 and unmanned drones , all of which show earthly aerospace development, if they had alien technology why didn’t the use it . It must be so far in advance if it exists .for years there’s been talk of aliens , whistleblowers etc but it always comes to nothing and a few people get rich on the UFO buffs circuit . It’s also likely that the US government has used UFOs to cover up aerospace developments , for example the 1980 Rendlesham Forest UFO incident where a black triangular ufo was seen was almost certainly a cover story for the arrival of the secret F117a at the adjacent US airbase .
Maybe the Aliens came here to strike up an alliance with the Sasquach? Maybe when they landed and said “take me to your leader”, they took him to JImmy Hoffa, who as we all know is living in Miami Beach incognito. Maybe I agree with Eric that the only proof is a direct interaction with the Aliens and their Spacecraft, on live TV, with Brit Hume. Choose one.
Traveled a million light years to get here only to crash because we drive on the wrong side of the road.
Mostly Harmless.
So far.
So the aliens that crashed in Roswell, NM were used to the Brit’s rules of the road?
Well of course, my good man. They are super-intelligent, after all.
Yes they were Daleks
EX-TERM-INATE!!!
And so what are those things doing seemingly impossible speeds and maneuvers with no heat signature and no visible means of support or propulsion that the US Navy Hornet pilots have recorded off the East and West coasts of the US? Those Navy pilots did not just see them with their sensors, they saw them with their Mk1 eyeballs.
And several of those pilots that are retired now are talking about it. They’re saying the video evidence that we got to see is just a small piece of the videos that were actually taken. They are also saying that it was not a one day thing. The objects were there and sighted every day during the time they were off the coast working up for deployment by every pilot out there.
Being skeptical doesn’t mean closing your mind to any thoughts or consideration of actual hard evidence of observations even if what is being observed seems impossible and seems to violate the laws of physics and flight as we know them.
Sailors aboard a destroyer and littoral combat ship also saw UFOs at different times. So to have drones in Asia.
Probably not ET, but no satisfactory to all explanation for the sightings and detections has been proposed.
See answer to rah…
It’s all electrical, baby!
…except for the Vimanas. Never underestimate Man’s innovativeness.
Recently released drone footage:
https://youtu.be/M6Wmap12xm0
The clip of the “orb” is the one that intrigues me.
I wonder if the people on the ground saw that orb fly by?
Dunno, but I don’t think so. Big drones fly high and it was cloudy..
I’m not bothering with your link, how many grainy videos do we want? Give us something to measure! Now, here’s a serious offer:
Open some sort of funding so we can go capture one. I will need:
Tesla coils. Big ones, millions of volts.
Faraday cages, large enough for an audience.
Seismic agitators. Humongous drums, or hydrolic drills, or maybe a small nation willing to walk in a circle for a coupla days, stomping their feet to the beat I’ll provide.
Cameras with extended frequency spectra, must cover at least one full harmonic.
Diplomatic immunity to travel to places where UFOs don’t hang around working mines susceptible to cave-ins on top of people, like around here…
Any takers? Your investment may be rewarded with part patent ownership of an transgravity generator. Bigelow seems to have succeeded?
re: “Faraday cages, large enough for an audience.”
Misuse of a technical term by a layman, again. If you’re going to use a term, know what it means and use it correctly. A ‘Faraday cage’ isn’t what you think it is.
Jim, I actually know perfectly well what a Farady cage is, but I certainly don’t know what you think I think it is. Although, I also see nothing in my comment that shows what I think such a structure is, either. Maybe you are psychic? You want to explain exactly what it is I think a Faraday cage is? Should be good for a laugh…
…but I have no desire to block you, please hang around, you may learn sumpfink…
Milo,
What is labelled as “0bject” over Asia is more correctly an “Image” on an aircraft navigation screen. Note how the image knows the edges of the screen where it reverses direction. My guess would be that someone is playing with the display with the aim of adding a spurious image. Could be friend or foe.
The disappointment is the ready rush to blame the abnormal when time after time, quite pedestrian explanations have been found. Geoff S
Answer: Carbon Dioxide
It does all that and more..Amazing stuff, simply amazing..
Or more especially and for those ‘sans coffee‘ so far today = The Belief in CO₂
The. Same. Thing. creates it all
Well I would’nt put it past the CO2 molecules gathering together high in the atmosphere to form strange green glowing bubbles given all the other magical things they can do 🙂
“And so what are those things doing seemingly impossible speeds and maneuvers…..”
One US Navy video showed an object apparently executing massive acceleration. But, as Mick West showed, it was an artifact of the camera system.
These jet fighters have amazing optical systems. They can find and lock onto targets incredibly well. But it makes the videos look strange because the target appears to be stationary, when in fact they’re being tracked by the camera. The object shot off, apparently at high speed, simply because the camera lost lock, which easily occurs when the zoom is changed by the pilot. This probably accounts for lots of “impossible speeds and maneuvers”.
It’s certainly possible that the pilots were misled by auto-suggestion – once their camera view convinced them that the target was extraordinary, then their visual acqusition of what was probably a faint and fuzzy object could be heavily influenced by what they had seen on the camera view.
You’re absolutely right to talk of hard evidence of observations. As with climate change, scepticism is essential. But these jet fighter videos are certainly not hard evidence of alien spacecraft, because they seem to show routine things such as balloons, birds and other aircraft. They look strange because of the remarkable optical systems being used. Don’t you think it a little odd that these alien spacecraft often show flashing navigation lights, in one case with the same period as a 737?
Chris
One of them actually flew head on between a command pilot and his wingman. The command pilot said it was passed within 150 ft. of his aircraft.
Another that was observed by the pilots to have dived into the ocean was picked up on the sonar of an attack submarine near the surface and clocked as going 75 knots under the water.
The objects were not just picked up by the jets, they were on the USS Nimitz radar and the radars of multiple ships in the task group.
A technician, now retired, stated that he was called to the CC of the Nimitz to reboot the systems because they thought it was a malfunction. He rebooted the system and the objects were still there.
Now that’s a lot of artifacts, on a lot of different sensory systems and a whole lot of mass “auto-suggestion”.
Accurate and assured time correlation between sensor systems – we don’t know. Pending some time stamp correlations, anomalies may be due to different artifacts at different times.
All thoroughly debunked by Mick West.
https://mickwest.com/
Not much on UFOs there.
The change from UFO to UAP is an important clue.
The work of Paul Devereaux has not received recognition, but is becoming increasingly more obvious an explanation.
https://www.greenpets.co.za/index.php/en/51-greenpets-natural-happiness/natural-living/biome/281-3-ufos
I saw a video of a huge tanker floating over 100 feet in the air, calmly sailing by. Dozens of people saw the same thing.
Nobody at the time could explain what was going on.
Turned out to be an optical illusion.
A known one optical illusion.
But what was the optical illusion on all those radars? Some of the most advanced and powerful in the world presumably.
Photons are photons, whether they are light frequency or radio frequency.
If you don’t think radar are capable of picking up things that aren’t there, then you have never talked to radar operators.
How does my HP8640B create a ‘photon’ on the output Type N connector? All I’ve ever seen coming out that port is RF EM energy at various continuous energy levels down to below -140 dBm.
How do you think that EM wave is propagated.
https://phys.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/College_Physics/Book%3A_College_Physics_1e_(OpenStax)/29%3A_Introduction_to_Quantum_Physics/29.03%3A_Photon_Energies_and_the_Electromagnetic_Spectrum
From the document
re: “From the document” “EM radiation is composed of photons.”
The photon is a fabrication from the days of Einstein and his discovery of the photo-electric effect.
And you have been found out to be ‘short’ of knowing anything to do with EM theory and electrodynamics. You had your days in the sun, MarkW, and those days are behind you.
You don’t understand how ‘photon’ and ‘quanta’ energy are related as it refers to changes in an electron’s energy level as said electron changes orbital levels and emits (or absorbs) a ‘quanta’, a small packet of energy in doing so, a so-called ‘photon’ of energy, and the fact that photons from that point forward have little to do with the resulting and propagating EM wave. QED.
The HP8640B doesn’t use this principle of electron ‘quanta’ or photon to generate RF energy. It uses different principles, notably, an electronic oscillator circuit, amplifiers and attenuators to achieve this. QED
You’re right and college physics professors are wrong.
I should always believe random pompous gits on the internet, in their minds they are never wrong.
Photons act as both wave and particle, that’s been well known for decades. Given your claimed “expertise”, I’m surprised you didn’t know that.
As to your little discourse on energy level changes as electrons hop from one shell to another, while interesting, and mostly correct, isn’t related to the subject at hand.
Are you trying to impress yourself?
No, all you’ve ever seen was some instrument or another reacting in ways that you interpret as “…RF EM energy at various continuous energy levels…”
If you’re gonna diss people on semantics, make sure your own reasoning passes for something resembling logic.
re: “No, all you’ve ever seen was some instrument or another”
Minutia masquerading as pomp and circumstance; where is the block button when it is needed?
Surely you meant: “minutae”?
You both meant “minutiae”.
I stand humiliated but grateful for your instruction of this poor fool, whose psychopathic glee in pulling Jim’s leg, overrode his innate psychological obsession with being right.
…but Jim obviously had it in for me, so I was really waiting for his retort…
You aren’t big on self reflection I see.
Hell, they developed the ability to alter the pulse rate of radar so as to distinguish between anomalies and actual contacts as far back as WW II!
re: “developed the ability to alter the pulse rate of radar so as to distinguish between anomalies and actual contacts”
Range ambiguity, they can solve for range ambiguiy; the other anomolies still exist (ground clutter, sidelobe returns (due to antenna sidelobes in the pattern), glint as the target aspect changes, etc)
Pulse rate does not change the frequency of the radar. While pulse rate can help to distinguish between certain types of targets, it is not the only technique, nor are radars perfect, even today.
So radars picked up a tanker floating above the surface of the sea? Apples and Oranges. Besides that, as stated before the now retired pilots are saying that the event off the east coast was a multiday one. Seen every day by pilots during their work up for deployments. With multiples being seen all the time.
And standing on the sea shore or floating on the ocean at a single point is one thing. Seeing something from multiple directions by multiple observers including those at varying those at varying altitudes at the same time is another.
And I know that way back in WWII they started making it so that the pulse rate of radar could be modulated so as to distinguish between real contact and atmospheric anomalies, dense squalls, etc.
re: “A known one optical illusion.”
RADAR (EM engery, like light) are subject to those effects too. Refraction of the beam the same way light is slightly refracted … HOW do you think I was spotted on 2 meters FT8 mode 1,000 miles to the north using a 20W output radio that normally is heard line-of-sight only about 30 miles? Atmospheric ducting, or refraction … so, yes.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/floating-ship-optical-illusion-superior-mirage-cornwall-england/
Fata Morgana effect. You should look it up, learn something.
Perhaps you should stop assuming that every time you don’t understand something, that you have proven everyone else to be an idiot.
All you are managing to prove is that you are a pompous git who has access to a dictionary, but lacks the with to understand it.
Fata Morgana is the name for this particular type of optical effect, but it is still an optical illusion.
Do you think you are actually impressing anyone?
Fata Morgana.
Everyone should be sure to become familiar with that ‘effect’.
Fata Morgana is a type of optical illusion.
“Being skeptical doesn’t mean closing your mind”
That’s right.
Some of the video footage of those things is pretty remarkable. Beyond our technology, or so it seems.
I lean towards thinking the universe is filled with life. All the ingredients are there. I’m not sure any of that potential life has mastered faster-than-light travel.
If these are real UFO’s then it appears they are not aggressive towards humans, and their ability to travel between the stars means we can do that, too. 🙂
If the U.S. has captured alien technology on numerous occasions, then it must not be that difficult, and perhaps the Chicoms and the Russians have their own examples.
I suppose the Chicoms and Russians could have learned how to build these vehicles that we see hanging around our battle fleets.
That’s just speculation. No evidence for any of that.
Beyond our technology, or so it seems.
From the declassified stuff I saw in the 80’s, I would say the “so it seems” is the operative phrase here.
That still leaves the question of why they would engage the way they appear to be, but I think that same question remains whether the technology is ours or alien.
When I was young I was interested in UFO’s and I became quite well informed about it. But, on balance, I think I was sceptical then. I am very sceptical now.
If you haven’t seen them, I strongly recommend Mick West’s youtubes. An example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7jcBGLIpus&list=PL-4ZqTjKmhn5Qr0tCHkCVnqTx_c0P3O2t&index=4
Just one other example. There was a famous “pyrimidical” UFO video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r2oaQWmqkk&list=PL-4ZqTjKmhn5Qr0tCHkCVnqTx_c0P3O2t&index=3
Explanation: the IR camera had a triangular-shaped iris, which produces a perfect apparent pyramid when out of focus. And, by the way, the video shows flashing navigation lights, which is quite common in these types of video. It seems a little unlikely that alien spacecraft would advertise their presence by flashing navigation lights!
“But extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.”
Very, very true. It’s difficult to think of a more extraordinary claim: that alien spacecraft are routinely flying through our skies. There does seem to be a notable lack of extraordinary evidence. The US Navy videos are easily explained. And does anyone seriously think they would have released the videos if they really did think they were alien spacecraft?
Chris
Wrong. I have no idea whether his claims are true or not, but it isn’t true that he hasn’t provided evidence. He hasn’t provided evidence to people who don’t have security clearance. The ICIG has deemed his claims “urgent and credible.”
https://youtu.be/bvTsHzYwoRM
Just words saop – show me the alien artefact.
Lol, patience….it’s coming slowly. David Fravor’s testimony and the videos released by the Navy are the drip, drip, drip…
I once listened to a 3-day seminar from a man who had verifiable credentials that he both worked at and visited the most secret places in the US military, including ones the public does not know about. He said, in all his looking, he saw nothing extraterrestrial. Absolutely nothing. What he did see, however, were advanced R&D projects in technology, aviation, and weaponry. Anything from (at the time) compact energy weapons to large autonomous aircraft with unusual (but not out of this world) shapes to advanced forms of camouflage, new forms of space flight technology. He even observed the first inklings of wearable computers, before the public R&D was revealed in the early 1990s. My point is, I find the man I met years ago who gave a seminar with verifiable credentials and a plausible defense over the course of 3 days a lot more believable than a single whistleblower who says exactly what the hungry-for-a-conspiracy public wants to hear.
More analysis here. Most likely that the source material is highly credible:
https://abovethelaw.com/2023/06/serious-fed-unafraid-of-legal-jeopardy-in-claim-of-recovered-alien-craft-government-ufo-coverup/
Still just words saop. These stories have been kicking around for decades, the wildly popular “X-Files” was born from public interest in such stories. But still not a shred of hard evidence.
See above on David Fravor’s testimony and the Navy videos.
There are now over 330 million people in America yet only the tiny populated Airforce by magic collects all of the alien material and for over 70 years while the public hasn’t picked up a single alien artefact in all that time, are you really that gullible?
In Andromeda, they only eat bugs so reckless alien teens cruise here for a good burger.
They’ll stop if the lefties have their way and it’ll be bugs or tofu here.
Probably just weather balloons. Oh wait. That explanation has already been used. Never mind.
More than decades. The stories have been around since Elijah was taken up to heaven in a flaming chariot. There is more evidence of the existence of God than aliens.
And I don’t believe in either one.
Bingo!
Don’t tell that to those guys on Ancient Aliens. According to them aliens are God and the angels. They seem to believe that every advance mankind ever made was due to aliens.
“We’d all love to believe we are not alone in a vast and so far terrifyingly empty cosmos.” Speak for yourself. I am quite comfortable without the extra stress of thinking about and worrying about other “creatures” in the Universe. Our “elite” politicians and so called enlightened do-goers already here and unfortunately active and visible are enough to worry about, thank you.
Not to worry. Ignoring the fact that everything we know about physics suggests that neither interstellar travel nor interdimensional/time travel is likely to be practical, it is difficult for me to believe that a truly intelligent lifeform would want anything to do with humanity. If there is intelligent life out there, it has probably declared the solar system to be a quarantine zone.
(And don’t you think that folks with advanced technologies could observe us — should they desire to — without being detected?)
Ever get a dog to chase a laser pointer?
Just like there are dumb people, there are dumb dogs. Even my puppy realized there was nothing there after a few seconds and didn’t pursue it.
You aren’t supposed to use laser pointers with dogs because they need to catch something after the chase. Failing to do so it disturbing to a dog.
Cats on the other hand are in it for the chase and it’s ok if they don’t catch it.
“everything we know about physics suggests that neither interstellar travel nor interdimensional/time travel is likely to be practical”
We’ve only had science for a few centuries. Now, the new space telescope shows fully formed galaxies almost near the beginning of the universe- 13 billion years ago. Imagine a planet that has had science for MILLIONS of years.
No doubt if you had a time machine, go back 2 centuries and tell someone- anyone that you can talk into a tiny device- to someone on the other side of the planet. Would they believe you? And that’s only 2 centuries.
The first stars were made up of hydrogen with trace amounts of helium.
It took several generations of stars before there was stuff heavier than helium in order to start building planets.
Nova and super Novas by themselves aren’t good at making elements heavier than iron. The problem is that the more protons you have in a nucleus, the harder it is to get two nuclei to collide and fuse.
There is a way around this problem is to have that nucleus collide with a neutron. Sometimes the neutron causes the nucleus to split, but occasionally the neutron decays into a proton and an electron, increasing the atomic weight of the nucleus by one.
Using LIGO, (Laser Interferometry Gravitational Observatory?) to detect collisions of neutron stars and provide a location so that telescopes can be pointed at the event. Such fusion has been observed in action.
We have had science thousands of years. Producing metals, studying stars and their motions, plants and even poisons are all the result of science that was well known by the time of Greece. Our tools and understanding have become much better so there is much less trial and error but we owe much to the past.
The universe is very big – perhaps infinite – and very old so it seems likely we’re not the only intelligent life. However, for some alien culture to know we’re here and decide to come visit one must assume they’d have detected our electromagnetic TV/Radio transmissions. That would mean they’d have to be within 126 light years. Of course being much more advanced than us they surely would have been broadcasting much longer.
Now we’ve pretty carefully surveyed the cosmos for alien transmission and would surely have detected any coming from someplace within 150 or so light years. So seems unlikely anyone out there would know we’re here. But lets suppose that someone say just 1,000 light years away has observed earth and somehow detected life here circa 1100 ce. We’re pretty sure it’s not possible to travel interstellar space at anywhere near the speed of light. At 20% of the speed of light it would take over 5000 years to get here. Even if those aliens are immortals, who’s going to volunteer to spend 5000 years traveling through interstellar space to visit us? Heck we might blow our planet to smithereens long before they’d arrive for all they would know.
There are no resources on this planet that aren’t much easier to acquire from comets or asteroids.
Given that there are more stars in the heavens than grains of sand on the beach, it’s near certainty that we are not alone…By that same token, the question becomes how would they find us?…What are the chances that you could find a cork floating randomly in the Pacific ocean? Those chances are better.
I’d be very surprised if there are no other intelligent species in the galaxy, let alone the universe. But I think there is good evidence such intelligences are extremely rare – otherwise we’d be hearing their radio chatter.
Of course, it is possible that among them we are the most advanced, the first to have radio waves. Somebody has to be first.
Perfectly reasonable Eric. And I agree that there are likely lots of life forms out there — at least some “intelligent” in some way that is comprehensible to us. But I’m not so sure about the radio signals — unless they are deliberately beamed in our direction and modulated in some way that makes detection easy. The problem is that stars generate a certain amount of random electromagnetic noise and radio antennae being what they are, any reasonable directional receiving antenna is likely going to see a fair number of stars as well as the target object. I’m not sure that we can count on digging signals whose frequency and modulation are unknown to us out of the resulting white (?) noise.
I checked the internet and couldn’t find any consensus on whether we could hear alien radio chatter. But that doesn’t mean that there aren’t better analyses than those I found. Maybe someone around here knows.
But Eric, would you be interested at all in an alien coca cola advert?
Maybe that’s where the Bud Light ad came from?
Where are they?? Here’s a possible explanation for not hearing alien radio chatter.
Suppose an alien technical society started broadcasting “on-line” 5000 years ago, i.e. in 3000 BC, from a system located 2000 light-years from earth. The spherical shell would have started to pass earth in 1000 BC, undetected by humans.
Then 3000 years ago, this civilization discovered a new way of sending information that did not involve any ‘broadcasting’ to the universe at all. All electronic communications would be kept ‘in-house’. So the end of their radio signals would have passed earth in 1000 AD, still undetected of course. And it remains forever undetectable, since earth is inside this spherical shell, now empty of these alien radio waves.
For this technical society, it would have been active for many years, but we were too slow on the draw to hear them, before they quit letting us know they were there. Many other technical worlds could have made similar transmissions, outside of our ability to hear them.
We have used radio for around 100 years…100 light years is with dispersion shows it just ain’t what it used to be.
To assume we have figured out communications is to project.
SETI, Sagan et. al have been listening, maybe in the wrong band.
And if we did find debris we would not be able to boot it.
We took years to understand this piece of “alien” machinery from 220BC ,and still experts say the Greeks could not have built it, and the factory still not found (rumored to be Ithaka, also not found).
The Antikythera computer :
There is no reason why the Greeks couldn’t have built it. All you need is the ability to smelt copper into thin sheets and then cut and file those sheets into gears.
As to taking so long to understand it. We had to wait until we had advanced imaging technologies so that we could see the inside of the object without having to take it apart.
No factory needed in order to build it. Just one person with a good understanding of math and the movement of the observable planets.
Has all the signs of mass produced parts. They tried tracing the copper isotopes to various mines, but construction shows it was not a lone assassin, sorry, tinkerer.
Even if true, a big so what?
Your evidence does not prove mass production, just that the person doing the work bought supplies from more than one supplier. Or his supplier got his supplies from multiple places.
Or that it started out as a simple calendar then got added to and rebuilt with different parts over time. I find it difficult to believe that they built it, in one go, completely from scratch – I’m betting it evolved into the mechanism we have today.
You know how competitive humans are.
One aristocrat sees one of his rivals has a simple calendar, so he calls the artisan who built it and demands that the artisan make one for him, however his needs to be fancier, with more features.
The “aristocrat” opened a credit line, got the best do-ers, and said produce. Want to guess where was his bank?
Low interest credit, key policy, was already known then.
If it was a bank undoubtedly it answered to the US.
We know the Phoenicians were mining copper at the Great Lakes.
Kept very secret. The banks are very likely the megalithics scattered over the Med. Today all have been looted, I wonder why.
We know no such thing.
Is there anything you know, that is actually true?
Did the diesel “evolve”, or did it work by exactly the same method?
Ever worked in major production industry? Hat tip to those guys 220BC. I wonder if they had unions?
Did diesel engines evolve over time? Obviously.
The Audi TE Unit is not called the Evolutionary Unit. Those guys are not biologists!
Are you really this stupid?
There are a couple of nice youtube pieces on the Antikythera Mechanism.
Current opinion is, pretty much as you say, a number of more complex versions were built over the years.
Bronze was a scarce resource, so most of it was recycled over the centuries. Almost all of the statues from that period have been recovered from shipwrecks.
The late Alan Bromley, who was one of my lecturers, did a lot of work on Babbage’s Difference Engine and the Antikythera Mechanism.
Unfortunately, much of his work was unpublished.
Difficult to believe, we are exceptional after all. Here an exploded view.
Such intricacy does not simply happen and of course there must have been simpler versions before, even stone versions, megalithic. These astronomical principles were understood, built up over millennia. There is another problem for exceptionalists.
That’s mass production, supply chains, already developed 220BC.
Today in the US, an election issue.
I’m wondering if your nurses know where you are?
Well, yes. That’s been known for decades.
The Egyptians certainly had very well developed mass production, supply chains and a very well developed bureaucracy.
The Egyptians had a centralised system where the harvests, granaries and breweries were controlled by that bureaucracy and parcelled out as necessary to the various settlements. They needed a well developed bureaucracy.
The question is then how did the once great World Factory , the USA, loose it.
Mark. I agree. I was curious why the Antikythera computer seemed to appear in isolation without other simpler mechanical devices like pedometers and clocks that one might expect would be useful. I’m not sure about pedometers, but it turns out that the Greeks did indeed make water clocks (Clypsydra) with rather elaborate mechanical indicators. The design of the Antikythera device is stunning and apparently unique. But the fabrication seems likely to have been something they knew how to do.
Such devices would have been quite rare, not a lot manages to survive for several thousand years.
As someone else pointed out, bronze was quite valuable back then. When the device became non-operational from age, if the owners didn’t want to pay a craftsman to fix it they would have had it melted down to recover the bronze it was made from.
The Antikythera device survived because it was on a ship that sank.
re: “and still experts say the Greeks could not have built it,”
Change your experts. Not everyone has that viewpoint.
Greek astronomy built on the Mesopotamian knowledge built up over centuries. The Antikythera Mechanism faithfully followed what was known at the time.
The “ancient Greeks couldn’t have built it” meme comes from the lack of other such geared mechanisms found from the period. However, gears were known at the time, and there are a number of non-technical descriptions of Greek mechanisms from contemporary writers.
Jo Merchant’s “Decoding the Heavens” is a good “popular science” book on the subject.
Freeth et.al is the most recent reconstruction I am aware of, but is rather more technical – https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-84310-w
Cogs and gears were well known throughout the Greek and Roman world, then forgotten until their ‘rediscovery’ in the middle ages.
Where’s my “+1” point?
Maybe it was Phoenician, or Persian?. Anyway the search for some workshop that could have turned out these absolutely essential naval navigation devices continues. It really dumps the idea that before the British Navy’s Newton Clock, no-one knew longitude and were merely beach bums.
You must be listening to the wrong experts. There have been at least a couple of recreations built with simple tools by single craftsmen. One theory is that the Antikythera Mechanism was the work of Archimedes or perhaps someone he taught. No doubt there were other versions but none have yet been found AFAIK.
Who are these “experts”?
It’s clearly Greek.
The conditions needed to provide an environment suitable for life to develop are common. Unfortunately the requirements needed to maintain those conditions for the billions of years necessary for complex and then intelligent life to develop are quite strict, so complex/intelligent life is likely to be quite rare.
The idea that radio chatter would be how other species developed is human-centrism myopia.
We know that the basic ingredients for life exist throughout the universe. Whether aliens have visited here is an open question. The idea that humans are the only life form to develop in infinity is extreme myopia.
I’m an empiricist but not to the point of believing lack of proof is proof of nonexistence. “We don’t know” is often the correct answer.
I can’t find a single post that even implies that life doesn’t exist outside the Earth.
Find some other strawman to assault.
Fair criticism. I was agreeing with and enhancing Eric’s statement “I’d be very surprised if there are no other intelligent species in the galaxy,”
I was challenging the assumption that radio signals would be how we measure intelligence.
I agree with you all the way Eric, on the other hand, it would explain Kerry..,.
Fair point 🙂
There you go, Eric. Hard evidence. Lurch simply can’t be human.
They Live!
https://youtu.be/cVAcRH9b44w?t=14
Now, where did I leave those sunglasses?
They’ve been ruled to be “assault glasses” and therefore banned.
goddam, I thought concealed carry applied…
That’s were the contact lenses come in.
The aliens are already among us. They call themselves Dutchmen. With an apology to Leon Szilard, who first suggested they called themselves Hungarians.
Incidentally, Szilard also suggested that we are alone in the universe because the good Lord would not make the same mistake twice.
John Kerry’s ancestors were Austro-Hungarian, it’s all adding up now!
Eric did say “intelligent” didn’t he?
The problem isn’t that I know that there are no aliens out there. It’s that I know that it would require technology well advanced of what we have to communicate with ones on the closest planet outside our solar system. The amount of energy required to send a radio signal that sort of distance that is better than a photon a second is about that required to power a small city.
If they could travel the huge distances, do you really think that they would remain incognito?
They would if they wanted to surprise us.
Stephen Hawking warned us about trying to contact alien civilizations, as they might respond.
https://www.sciencealert.com/stephen-hawking-warns-that-we-might-not-want-to-reach-out-to-aliens
There’s no resource on this planet that would interest an advanced civilization.
A planet capable of supporting life? You must be kidding.
Do you have an idea how rare it is a planet of this size with a rotating metallic nucleus that produces a strong enough magnetic field to maintain an atmosphere of light molecules, and with such a large satellite that stabilizes the tilt of the axis so the climate has been stable for hundreds of millions of years, and that contains so much water?
The Earth is the result of a freak accident. Any advanced civilization would come at the speed of light to take possession of such a treasure.
If they’ve conquered interstellar space, then they have no need to rely on a planet with a magnetic field.
Why ‘buy’ (or build one) if you can simply ‘acquire’? Something on a planetary scale is not to be lightly sneezed at.
VIRTUE SIGNAL: I buy none of it. We’re it. Do better where we are, with what we have.
Chances are that if there really are aliens out there then they would be so alien that we would find it almost impossible to communicate with them anyway.
That is one thing the movie Contact got right.
Chief scientist noticed the pulses were prime numbers.
Even then did not notice the 3D construction plan nor our first TV broadcast :
Contact (1997) – decoding the alien’s message
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUsACggHyQM
Easy, just send instructions the slow way, then go the fast way.
They’re only prime numbers if you use base 10, decimal. What if an alien species has a different number of digits – even the babylonians used base 12 for their mathematics (thumb as pointer, 4 fingers, each with 3 joints) so think how different they could be.
Gaussian primes are key – for example, the prime number 5 is not a Gaussian prime since it can be factored into Gaussian integers with smaller norms as 5 = (2 + i)(2 – i).
Now we talk intelligent. Too much for a mere movie.
“If they could travel the huge distances, do you really think that they would remain incognito?”
The prime directive? If we were an anthropological study they would not want to interfere. The mystery of how the plot unfolds might be more compelling than interacting with a primitive species.
Wasn’t SPACEBALLS the best scientific proof that aliens exist ?
I can’t breath.
In Hollywood.
I was going to say the exact same thing. 🙂
I have long been intrigued by the widespread expectation that alien lifeforms, if they exist at all, are going to be advanced and sophisticated.
If there are indeed any other lifeforms out there in the universe, on what grounds would any one expect them to be any more advanced than an amoeba ?
I would also suggest that if alien lifeforms do exist, it is quite probable that they would be so different from those we know on our planet that we probably wouldn’t recognise them as being living.
Even amoebae are unlikely. Eukaryotes arose only once on Earth, after about 2 billion years (maybe). Prokaryotic microbes however might be fairly common.
“If there are indeed any other lifeforms out there in the universe, on what grounds would any one expect them to be any more advanced than an amoeba ?”
I see a lot of very smart animals on this planet Earth. I think, if given enough time, and the right circumstances, some of these animals could evovle to the level of human civilization.
I’m thinking that most life in the universe probably resides in interior oceans of planets and moons. I think life like we have here on Earth is very rare because Earth-like planets are very rare, and there are claims that life on Earth would not have developed the way it did, if not for having a very large Moon that served to stablize the Earth and make conditions on Earth liveable.
Our particular Earth/Moon system must be pretty rare in the universe, although it is a big universe.
It’s a fascinating subject.
That’s my thoughts exactly — if governments had found alien tech, they’d use it, for their militaries if nothing else. The alternatives are (a) the tech is so advanced it is undecipherable, (b) government is doing the polite thing and not trying to decipher it, (c) governments are using it in their militaries, but secretly, so there are secret high-tech military wars going on which we civilians know nothing of.
All three are tosh.
Why do you believe a, is tosh?
If the Sun were the size of a quarter coin then the nearest start would be 107 miles away. That is just too far to travel for even the most advance beings, in my view. I never did believe claims of UFOs and alien visitors, it is all based on faith, and religion is not science. NO one has EVER produced any real evidence, it is all just talk and hope.
It follows the script of The Report From Iron Mountain. It discussed the decreasing perception of the global threat from war and sought other potential threats that could be used to justify the acceptance by the masses of authoritarian domination. Pandemics, environmental crises, and alien invasions were all considered candidates for that purpose. Some have called it farcical, others as a playbook for the elite. Either way, we can see for ourselves how that is playing out.
The “Report from Iron Mountain” is almost certainly a hoax. There is zero evidence that it is authentic, and much that it is a hoax.
Citing it to support claims about aliens is circular, a hoax supporting a hoax.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Report_from_Iron_Mountain
We still have wars.
There probably are other intelligent beings out there, probably civilizations millions of years more advanced than we are. But they may be scarce and the distances between stars is vast. It is rock solid that anything with mass cannot exceed the speed of light. In science fiction you can get around that speed limit by warping space or by going through some weird kind of hyper space. But that creates all kinds of time paradoxes and is just fiction. If for the sake of argument, the nearest civilization is a hundred thousand light years away how likely is it that we have ever been visited?
One other thing. Earth is over four billion years old. If aliens had ever visited, isn’t it likely that we would have found some accidental trace of them? Maybe a left over chicken bone in a piece of Devonian rock from where they camped to have a picnic lunch? Maybe a paper clip or a plastic cup that someone dropped and that became embedded in a lump of coal? After traveling a hundred thousand light years I would think they would want to stay a few years and thoroughly explore the planet and in that time they would have left some evidence that they were here.
Back in the ’60 there was a UFO craze going on along with cattle mutilations.
There was a group of guys I went to school with that lived on the outskirts of a
small midwest town. We would make hot air balloons out of dry cleaner bags, a base
made of plastic straws and fueled by several birthday candles. These would quickly rise up quite high and and stay up for a surprising length of time.
We would launch these balloons in early evening and they would float over this town
till the candles burned out in a way that looked like it was shooting something downward.
One of our sisters call in to the local radio station and reported a UFO over town…and
wow did it make the news. My dad got wind of this and put an end to it but we
got some good laughs for a while.
.I always think of those times whenever I see these news
reports about UFO’s..
Here is a page on making the balloons with a bit
on the origins and some history : http://www.overflite.com/scooter.html
Um, did you ever launch several (two or more) “in (a) formation”?
It’s been a long time and some of the events are a bit blurry, but
one evening that I remember was a multiple launch of a couple
of different designs. The standard plastic straw unit but with varying amount
of candles along with a styrofoam base and a balsa wood base again
with different candles loads. It takes at least 2 people to launch and
there were only 4-5 of us so we did one at a time. That night we had
maybe 5-6 up at one time, some of the designs didn’t make it far. I also
was involved with astronomy, telescopes, chemistry and my favorite
rock hounding. Geeky kid stuff.
.
Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed, someone said.
I saw a UAP (fixed it to get passed moderation?) – during the Hudson Valley sightings back in the ’80s- seen by thousands of people- similar to the famous Phoenix Lights sightings in the ’90s seen by many people including the governor of AZ. I spend as much time following the UAP subject as the climate subject- probably more than anyone active here- it’s a serious topic and shouldn’t be so easily dismissed.
I’m not a fan of space travelers visiting the Earth, but my wife and I saw the ‘famous Phoenix Lights’ in the 1990s and I do believe in Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs). We saw the Phoenix Lights up close and nearly personal, so there’s no doubt in our minds we saw something real and unusual.
Here’s my personal account of my sighting- and, as I noted earlier- though WUWT wants to avoid the topic, in general, it’s now been suggested by analysts, that the aliens have advanced energy systems that we could benefit by- ergo, it’s an energy topic and something that ought to be discussed without derision. I wrote this a few years ago in case anyone asked. 🙂
Had to edit it to get passed moderation. 🙂
“Something real and unusual” – absolutely. But was it alien?
How can we castigate climate enthusiasts who, when confronted with something they don’t understand, simply shrug and say “climate change”, if we do the same with unknown phenomena – simply shrug and say “UFO’s.”
re: “We saw the Phoenix Lights up close and nearly personal”
Chinese balloon-type lanterns? I’ve got to wonder how many of those ‘things’ have been released by pranksters over the years. Imagine a group of friends setting five of them off at the same time spaced from endzone to endzone on a football field …
Those alien crafts crash because someone fails to convert imperial measurements to the interplanetary system.
If Tucker is pushing the alien story it is most likely a contractual seppuku with foxnews and dominion to relieve him of some of his audience.
Belief that ufos are alien ships was plausible in 1960, less so now – with high-resolution cameras everywhere. We have pictures of all kinds of unusual events, including fireballs in the sky, lightning exploding oil tanks, etc. none of alien ships.
We have a useful tool to evaluate such claims.
“First, science places the burden of proof on the claimant. Second, the proof for a claim must in some sense be commensurate with the character of the claim. Thus, an extraordinary claim requires “extraordinary” (meaning stronger than usual) proof. This latter prescription seems related to the rule of parsimony in science that states that the simpler adequate explanation is the one to accept. {a variant of Occam’s Razor; see Wikipedia}.
“…these rather conservative rules for evidence of extraordinary claims mean that a claim that is inadequately supported results in a simple nonacceptance of the claim. Evidence is, then, a matter of degree, and not having enough results in a claimant’s not satisfying the burden of proof. It does not mean disconfirmation of the claim. …
“As a practical matter, an unproved fact is a non-fact. Science assumes the negative about unproved claims; it gives such claims low priority and low probability and ignores them.”
By Marcello Truzzi in Zetetic Scholar, August 1987.
For a longer excerpt, see:
https://fabiusmaximus.com/2012/12/01/skepticism-46382/
The Loch Ness Monster is really a stranded alien.
Brought in as baggage by this guy Outlander (2008) Theatrical Trailer
Nessie was here first. Stranded aliens came later:)
An observation from the only recipient of the quasi-Nobel Prize in Economics with any credibility (because he actually tried to predict things with his input-output analysis):
Wassily Leontief was a very strong proponent of the use of quantitative data in the study of economics. Throughout his life, Leontief campaigned against “theoretical assumptions and non-observed facts” (NOF). Beware of humans bearing NOFs.
Yeh. And I am the emperor of China. Only the Chinese do not yet appreciate it. However, that is their problem, not mine. I still am the emperor.
During Western Han Dynasty Emperor Su Wu is sent on a diplomatic mission, detained and exiled to herd sheep undaunted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl6LJDi0gi0
Ancient guzheng music. Exile is tough!
This just in!
A Scottish bagpipe-blower has come forward to report that, while trolling in Loch Ness using an ERIE DEARIE with a nightcrawler on the trailing hook, caught a baby Nessie weighing 10 kilos.He took it home, fried it up and served it to some friends.
(Unconfirmed reports are that it tastes like chicken.)
None of his friends have returned our calls.
I call bs – there is no such thing as a ‘bagpipe-blower’ – the rest seems legit, though!
A bit OT.
My family on my Dad’s side was Irish.
His brother, my Uncle, was fond of saying:
“The Irish gave the Scotts the bagpipe. And they haven’t gotten the joke yet.”
(Apologizes in advance.)
Irish and Scott versions here :
Bagpipes and Uilleann Pipes Duet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNhWxH_NUh8
No joking matter, except Central Europeans believe both are Alien!
“No joking matter, except Central Europeans believe both are Alien!”
Which surprises me – if you go back through some very well known Dutch and other European paintings from a few hundred years ago, there are some very good examples of local pipers, like so many other things Europe has lost over the years.
Well, my Irish ancestors were legal aliens.
(Not so sure about the German side but they came over before Uncle Adolf reared his ugly head.
(Maybe he’s why they came?)
My family on my (now deceased) mum’s side are Irish. We tell the same joke but then our pipers tend to use the uillean pipes not bagpipes.
Listen carefully – the polyphonic (Uileann) Elbow Pipes sound completely different to Highland war-pipes.
It is the difference between War and Peace.
Notice the effort of the Highland Piper huffing and puffing, and the sheer ease of the Uilleann piper.
Back in or around the ’60s it was believed that the only way to world peace was a common, external enemy. It would not surprise me if the Davos crowd, or a portion thereof, haven’t decided that the UFO/UAP area might provide the right level of external threat needed to boost the acceptance of their proposed one-world government.
The idea that beings who can navigate space and time, yet cannot navigate Earth’s atmosphere.
Although, it could be that only a stripped down craft can be sent here, and the last time the pilot actually flew in ‘hands on’ mode was in the academy.
A “training accident”?
I told a deceased friend of mine to explain why they need lights after crossing all those light-years of space? His consternation was hilarious. I topped it off with questioning do they have turn signals and emergency flashers? I miss his facial expressions of confusion.
No offence meant but the way you’ve written it gives the impression you were having a rather one-sided conversation with a corpse. I’m guessing you had the conversation before your friend died?
“His dad died when he was 7.”
Pretty active little kid. 😎
Tucker has hit the big time again, something like 100 million views for the whole episode!
As for Deep State UFO’s Area 51 all over again, remember Fermi’s famous question – where are they?
An civilization capable of vast interstellar travel would completely engulf, populate the Earth in about 42 minutes.
Come to think of it, the WEF and Neocon crowd sure do talk alien.
They are already here!
Rabbit hole time, not from any other solar system, trans dimensional entities, Something screwing with us from the other side manifesting in UFO’s, Bigfoot,etc.
I think Tuckers point is if Russia, Russia, Russia can dominate the news cycle for 2 YEARS with zero evidence then alien craft can get a passing mention without evidence either …
Perhaps an attempt to discredit the “whistleblowers” that have come forth with evidence against Biden?
Message: “You can’t trust whistleblowers!” (except for the one that launched an impeachment attempt of Trump over a phone call.).
Would a medieval scholar have been able to reverse engineer a cell phone?
I suspect our scientists would have as much luck reverse engineering any alien technology.
We ‘umble lubbers managed to reverse engineer the Antikythera machine in 40 years.
Steady progress, what?
It took 40 years to decipher a fancy clock? That’s nothing to brag about.
The only thing slowing that down was belief in our exceptionalism.
Bad war strategy, I’ll say!
I know your “special”, but we don’t usually talk about it.
I would love to know how you came to that conclusion, or is it just what the voices in your head told you to say.
Regardless, it took 50 years to develop imaging technology sensitive enough to see what was inside the unit. The original discoverers decided, wisely, not to try and take it apart as it was too delicate.
You don’t need alien technology to create a bunch of gears.
Reading problems there.
No one said Antikythera was alien!
Belief in exceptionalism today blinded people for decades to the capabilities in 220BC.
Sure we got a scan in the 1960’s already.
Mass production methods did not begin with Henry Ford.
The scans in the 1960s were quite limited, with little ability to show depth.
Bromley and Wright managed some much more detailed tomography later, but Bromley’s illness halted progress.
Freeth et al used more sophisticated methods later, which is about the current state of play.
re: “I know your “special”,”
Hint: “You’re” works better in the above.
Here’s a good way to remember: Either you know your sh**, or you know you’re sh**.
A spelling flame accompanied by a veiled insult.
I bet your nanny is really proud of you.
Jim, mebbe the content was as intended.
Read as ‘I Know your special (purpose), but we don’t usually talk about it.’
re: “Would a medieval scholar have been able to reverse engineer a cell phone?”
WHEN you as ‘a medieval scholar’ can’t even explain a battery? NO.
In 1800, Volta invented the first true battery, which came to be known as the voltaic pile.
It seems pretty simple. We just spent weeks following the flight of a strange-looking Chinese spy balloon. If it’s not a reflection issue at night, it’s probably something from a foreign country we haven’t seen before.
If little green aliens with tentacles and ray-guns were zooming about, they’d have communicated with us in some way by now. Or we’d have something. I know the odds suggest we’re not alone in the universe, but if the speed-of-light problem is absolute when it comes to objects bigger than (I don’t feel like looking it up right now) entanglement particles (or there’s a better explanation), then we’ll probably always be alone.
We seem desperate for something extraordinary in our lifetimes. And there’s already plenty of it with technology. But not every extraordinary event is going to happen in one tiny window of time.
It’s too bad Tucker is wasting whatever he had on this nonsense. A lot of people seem to like him and he seems willing to take on some people who need to be taken on. This alien coverup thing… another disappointment.
re: “It’s too bad Tucker is wasting whatever he had on this nonsense.”
I was a throw-away line used to poke the sleeping bear known as MSM … r/whoosh. It went over and beyond where you were standing …
Too bad I didn’t get a picture of it. Just a blurry something…
Are you saying this item is incorrect – that Tucker didn’t interview this guy?
This brings back fond memories of my childhood – Ancient Astronauts, Erich Von Daniken and *The Chariot of the Gods,* etc. etc. Heady time, heady time.
Life was more interesting then. I just never understood why adults were so blasé about it. I just wish there were more sideshow distractions like that. And the aliens never lectured anybody on privilege, either.
We have such a sense of self importance that we overlook the obvious. We obtains things from other companies and countries and we can reverse engineer it because our technology isn’t that much difference. Even when early semiconductor information was captured by Russia, they obtained the chip mask and use them to duplicate our semiconductors. How do we know? The manufactures logo was on chips produced in Russia.
Consider what would happen if you gave a cell phone to a cave man. Given time you might get the concept of what it was across but for them to understand what it was would be impossible without a lot of theory.
Yes, alien technology would have to rely on some of the theory we use today, but there probably is a good deal we have yet to discover. If they are with us, they found a way around the light barrier, something our current theory says is impossible. They may also use antimatter or may even have another source of energy we have yet to find.
If the military has something, it’s probably something pretty to look at but well beyond their understanding.
From a science fiction story. Consider if a disposable calculator from today was moved back it time to just after WW II. it would have been well beyond the ability of science to understand and duplicate. That’s only a few years compared to how advance another race could be.
re: “Consider if a disposable calculator from today was moved back it time to just after WW II. it would have been well beyond the ability of science to understand and duplicate.”
What kind of ‘science’ personnel?
Understand – no … Are you familiar with how the German Enigma codes were cracked? Early mechanical relay-based ‘computers’, calculators?
Duplicate – yes. “well beyond the ability of science to … duplicate”
I know about Enigma and the first two computers constructed during WW II. One used telephone relays and the other vacuum tubes. In addition mechanical calculator existed as well as tabulating machines that dated back to somewhere around the start of the century. Read IBM and the Holocaust by Edwin Black if you want to understand just how important machines were for handling data during the first half of the twentieth century.
The point is that even the simplest computing machine weight over 20 pounds and most were in the neighborhood of tons. A disposable calculator given away at trade fairs weighing under an ounce would have been a total mystery. It would have looked impossible to construct but half a century latter they could be given away as advertising material.
The big break was the transistor in 1947. IBM put two transistors in a single package. Then manufacturing became reliable enough that they could put more than one transistor on a single chip. Eventually we ended up with multiple computers on a single chip. All of that couldn’t be envisioned just after WW II. What flaws are there in our science today that when corrected will change our view of the universe?
P.S. I am old enough to have laid hands on a tabulating machine, a card sorter and several card punches so I understand how we got from there to here.
Good. I’ve punched a few cards on the old IBM Model 029 card punch too, ran a few jobs meant for a System/360 but ran on the present day (at the time) System/370 and while on one project at TI did actual component-level troubleshooting on a TTL digital computer that used open-collector gates on the several data buses on account of tri-state logic gates had not been developed yet (the “TIPI” computers). Later on we actually used TI 990/12s and VAX 11/780s as RJE ‘terminals’ to the corporate’s (CIC) IBM mainframe hardware.
While working at the TI GaAs Facility (we did RF/microwave MIMICs) foundry I actually met the guy whose name (along with a few others) is on the first TI calculator patent that hangs in TI’s main corporate lobby: Jerry Merryman. He had some interesting stories on getting the first silicon for those devices (the calculators) ‘operable’ shall we say. Point being, I don’t need lectures in this area, unlike lesser, inexperienced men.
I take it, then, that you concede my first point.i.e., they would understand the pocket calculator, i.e., using Boolean logic no matter its implementation technology.
The tabulators could do arithmetic. One application would be to take a sorted deck of card with all the telephone calls you made for the month and produce a printed bill and update card for next months records. It was done through the magic of relays and the programming would be on an exchangeable plug board but it was done well before WW II. They could have duplicated the function but it would have been a very large cabinet and it functions would have taken seconds to complete. They had mechanical calculators that would do the same job and were smaller but they didn’t use a boolean approach.
They would not understand what was going on in the calculator chip because it would have been beyond their comprehension that the logic could be compressed that much and yet be that cheap to make.
As for alien hardware, it might be so advanced that our science would have to advance just to understand it. In the WW II example, we had the tools to understand it. We might not have the tools to understand alien hardware.
re: “The tabulators could do arithmetic.”
Moving the goal posts; The subject being addressed was per this line you previously posted: “Consider if a disposable calculator from today was moved back it time”
You want a game of trivial pursuit, I don’t.
re: “They would not understand what was going on in the calculator chip because”
Do you know what a ‘half adder’ is? How about a ‘full adder’? I don’t think you are up to speed on where you are taking this …
HAVE you ever reviewed the calculator patent Jerry Merryman filed while he was at TI?
I was first exposed to digital electronics at ASU in the early 70’s. I really appreciated the AMD2903 because it sucked a lot of logic into a single chip. I have used gray codes and state machines to make complex constructs in PALs of 128 logic elements. Most of my professional work has been with assembler on the metal including hardware drivers. This means that I would from time to time discover the hardware wasn’t functioning correctly so I had to program around it or if possible correct the hardware.
To answer your question, no I haven’t reviewed any patens but I have reviewed a lot of technological documentation from IBM and other manufactures.
To answer your question, yes I know what a half adder and full adder are but after the AMD2903 came out, I haven’t had much need to think about them.
I fully believe that you make a better design if you understand everything that took place before. We handled massive amounts of data long before computers came along. How did they do it. The truth is they stored data on cards. They had card sorters to order the cards. They had tabulators to process the data. These same functions were sucked up into the computers and exist as software instead of hardware.
See – George Boole and his work (‘Boolean logic’). He lived from 2 November 1815 until 8 December 1864.
This precedes WW2 by a wide margin – no?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Boole
So what? Unless they can figure out how an integrated circuit works, they lack the ability to figure out that boolean logic is even being used.
Hand cranked mechanical calculators go back hundreds of years. That was not the point. The point was the ability of engineers and scientists to reverse engineer and duplicate the integrated circuits used in an electronic calculator.
They couldn’t make semiconducting materials, for starters.
re: “Hand cranked mechanical calculators”
Off-topic. The subject was electronic calculators. If you’re going to respond, please at least be on subject. Is it an age thing with you now MarkW?
Is it even possible for you to disagree with someone without insulting them? Or are you just so convinced of your own infallibility that you no longer feel the need to get along with anyone else.
Perhaps if you got your nose out of the air you might be able to keep up with the conversation.
PS: I could make the same comment to you, when you brought the German enigma machines into a conversation about electronic calculators.
I saw a flying saucer in 1967. A friend was flying a kite really high. As we were talking and watching it a shiny disc shaped object came into view. We assumed it was a plane that we couldn’t see the wings until it came to a stop above the kite. There was no way of telling if it was a small object close or a larger one farther away. It made no sound and hovered there for at least 10 minutes as we tried to figure out what it was. It then moved off on a vector, abruptly changed direction 90 degrees and shot out of sight in an upward direction at an unbelievable rate of speed.
Without proof I wouldn’t claim it was an alien craft but I don’t think humans had technology that could do that then or now.
h/t ZH
Remember SETI, and Fermi’s Paradox?
Reconfiguring SETI in the microbial context: Panspermia as a solution to Fermi’s paradox
https://www.panspermia.org/microbialseti.pdf
There are many papers there on viral RNA and DNA dispersing throughout interstellar dust over aeons.
Earth regularly ploughs through dust and some of this can survive and bring new RNA, DNA.
Now this gets really explosive when one looks at Flu seasons.
And yes, pandemics such as the recent one that cannot be named.
There was a comet or asteroid fireball reported not long before Wuhan and the prevailing wind pattern, over the Himalayas nicely fits the explosive case-timing in Iran, Italy and NY.
And the infamous Spanish Flu pandemic spread before airlines between India and USA.
Anyway these dust trails mean many solar systems plough through them. Which means “aliens” might look very like life forms here, even, especially the weirdest :
What is astounding, there is no global monitor system for incoming dust RNA and DNA !
So instead of listening for SETI radio or artifacts, sample this dust – it could save millions of lives and lockdowns!
PS, not ruling out military gene fiddling, nature is way ahead…
There is no RNA, much less DNA on asteroids.
They have the chemicals that are used to build RNA and DNA, but it hasn’t been assembled.
The problem with panspermia, is that you have merely shifted the problem of how did life start, from our planet to some other planet.
The problem remains – how advanced evolution seems to repeat DNA or RNA sequences. Shifting the problem of life off planet merely challenges the land-lubber’s ‘*stake my claim here on my patch’ to the real world.
Without a dust monitor, incredibly lacking, leaves us open to pandemics.
We all know what that means after the pandemic that cannot be named.
Sequences are repeated because they are inherited from common ancestors.
As to the rest of your nonsense, whatever they are medicating you with, it needs to be doubled.
Not just the chemicals to build RNA have been founf on asteroids, but whole nucleobases, ie the key components of RNA, ie uracil:
https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-discover-rna-component-buried-in-the-dust-of-an-asteroid
It’s also known that short RNA segments, ie oligomers, self-assemble in the pockets of liquid water in ice.
And of course meteorites are loaded with hundreds of amino acids, far more than used in the proteins of life on Earth.
Uracil is one of four nucleobases in RNA. The other three are the same as in DNA, in which thymine, the methylated version of uracil ,replaces it.
Exactly. Some here are very much land-lubbers. It is a vast cosmos out there.
Even JWST pulled this in :
Webb Space Telescope detects universe’s most distant complex organic molecules
https://phys.org/news/2023-06-webb-space-telescope-universe-distant.html
In Nature.SPT0418-47 is 12 billion light-years , by redshift.
The Earth is not the center of the Universe, nor of life.
One thing is for sure: It is far more likely that we are or have been visited by alien spacecraft than that our CO2 emissions are in any way shape or form “dangerous to the planet”.
Those would be as useful as a screen door on a submarine. Imperial storm troopers couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn with them – from the inside.
But it wasn’t the guns – Obi Wan fired a blaster in Revenge of the Sith, and hit his target 😉
But of course. That was Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Use The Source, Luke.
Nah it’s the Stormtrooper helmets with those dark lenses over their eyes – can’t see squat out of them!