Coal: The Missing Link

Originally published in the Spectator | Australia

Brian Wawn

Coal will be indispensable for electricity generation in Australia for the foreseeable future. Of its competitors, natural gas is much more expensive for base-load electricity (that is, continuous electricity); nuclear power is at least a decade away; and wind and solar energy are weather and cloud-dependent and thus unreliable. In addition, they are both proving expensive.

Nevertheless, coal is barely part of the public discussion on future energy developments. Instead, it is a discussion dominated by renewables and natural gas. This should change.

Coal: should emissions rule it out?

When it comes to coal, the first question to ask is whether or not emissions should rule it out. Reliable and low-cost, coal-fired electricity produces a higher level of greenhouse-gas emissions than electricity based on natural gas, renewables, or nuclear power. Does this matter?

Yes, according to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), the United Nations body responsible for information on climate change. In its latest Synthesis Report (March 2023), the IPCC states:

‘Limiting human-caused global warming requires net-zero carbon-dioxide emissions … climate change is a threat to human well-being and planetary health … there is a rapidly closing window of opportunity to secure a liveable and sustainable future for all.’

But there are significant dissenters from this view.

For example, writing in The Australian on March 29, 2023, US climate scientist, Judith Curry, said that the IPCC’s ‘extreme scenarios’ on emissions and global warming are ‘now widely recognised as implausible’.

This ‘has rendered obsolete much of the climate impacts literature and assessments of the past decade’. These extreme scenarios are ‘still featured prominently’ in the IPCC’s latest Synthesis Report.

Furthermore (notes Professor Curry), the comments in this latest report are much more alarmist than those in the IPCC’s assessment reports, which are written (unlike the Synthesis Report) by scientists.

Steven Koonin, a prominent US physicist, author of the 2021 book, Unsettled, and former senior official in the Obama administration. says that ‘the science is insufficient to make useful projections about how the climate will change over the coming decades, much less what effect our actions will have on it’.


Professor Ian Plimer, a well-known Australian geologist and Spectator writer, says, ‘If governments, the United Nations or climate activists want to stop the normal planetary process of climate change, then they need to stop plate tectonics, stop variations in the Earth’s orbit, and stop variations in solar output.’

Professor Michael Asten (retired Professor of Geophysics at Monash University and former senior principal geophysicist at BHP) is part of an international team researching the growing area of climate science: natural cycles of climate change over the past 2,000 years.

These cycles include warm periods in Roman times up to the year 500 AD and in Medieval times between 900 and 1300 AD, followed by a cool time for 550 years. Up to 1850, global temperature variations had nothing to do with emissions.

Are natural cycles more important – and possibly much more important – than human-induced emissions? This is not yet known, and until it is known, ‘climate science should be viewed as a work-in-progress, not something settled’ in Professor Asten’s view.

In short, while scientists agree that human-induced emissions cause global warming, they do not agree on whether such emissions are the main driver of such warming.

Given that this issue is unresolved, there is no case for outlawing coal because of emissions. There may be such a case in the future – and there may not be.

Nuclear power: not a short-term option

Nuclear power is not a short-term option. Unlike coal, nuclear power is emissions-free. But nuclear power in Australia is at least 10-15 years away.

This reflects the time required for achieving sufficient political consensus to enable development of the first commercial nuclear plant, followed by regulatory changes, site selection, planning approvals (including consideration of radioactive-waste disposal), engineering design, and construction.

As a result, nuclear power will do nothing to address electricity problems of the next decade. And even when in place, it will be complemented by other forms of electricity generation (e.g. coal), possibly for decades.

Wind and solar energy: emerging problems

Meanwhile, wind and solar energy have serious emerging problems. First, wind and solar energy are proving expensive. Up to the year 2000, when coal dominated electricity generation, Australia had among the lowest electricity prices in the world.

Since then, the contribution of wind and solar energy to electricity generation has grown from almost nothing to over 20 per cent today. Australia now boasts some of the highest energy costs in the world. Reasons for this include: high transmission costs associated with wind; solar farms which are often located a long way from the main grid; the need for backup battery power; coal and gas plants forced to operate below capacity (but remain online); and the cost of maintaining frequency and stability in the grid.

Wind and solar energy are unreliable and will continue to be so, even with battery support.

Mark Mills of the Manhattan Institute explains the battery problem in relation to the US: ‘The annual output of Tesla’s Gigafactory, the world’s largest battery factory, could store three minutes’ worth of annual US electricity demand. It would require 1,000 years of production to make enough batteries for two days’ worth of US electricity demand.’ (The New Energy Economy: an Exercise in Magical Thinking)

And note that, in the US and Australia, wind and solar droughts can last more than two days.

In most countries, including Australia, relying on renewables plus batteries for base-load electricity presents seemingly-insuperable financial and logistic problems.

The prevailing political view is that the future lies with renewables. But unless these two problems are overcome, renewables may not have much future at all.

Open-up discussion of coal

In avoiding public discussion on coal, Australia is putting its head in the sand. Liberal leader, Peter Dutton, has done Australia a service this month by opening-up a discussion of nuclear power and challenging Labor’s approach to natural gas. But the Liberals are yet to face up to the importance of coal, talking much more about the importance of natural gas.

And the natural gas industry is not helping with its view that coal is its rival – that ‘by replacing higher-emitting fuels (meaning coal) with cleaner natural gas we can substantially reduce emissions.’ (Australian Petroleum & Production Exploration Association, 10 August 2021)

For those people demanding a continuing reduction in greenhouse-gas emissions, natural gas (like coal) is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

In January 1940, early in the second world war, Winston Churchill – to become British prime minister in May 1940 – said of European countries remaining neutral:

‘Each one hopes that if he feeds the crocodile enough, the crocodile will eat him last. All of them hope that the storm will pass before their turn comes to be devoured. But I fear – I fear greatly – the storm will not pass.’

Churchill was prophetic. Most of the neutral countries concerned (notably Belgium, Holland, Denmark, and Norway) were overrun by Germany a few months after his January 1940 statement.

The natural-gas industry in Australia is effectively ‘feeding the crocodile’. It should consider the possibility that, after coal, it is next on the list. And treat coal as an ally, not a rival.

The Liberals should think similarly. 

Footnote: concerning cost and other problems associated with solar energy, see the article by John Mole, Solar: a risky waste of time and money, Spectator Australia, 17 May 2023.


Brian Wawn is a director of Energy Bureau, a non-profit organization committed to stimulating discussion on climate and related energy policies. 

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Nick Stokes
June 6, 2023 2:21 pm

Australia now boasts some of the highest energy costs in the world. Reasons for this include…”

Yes, it does, But the big reason not mentioned is fuel costs. Those have risen hugely because of our move to exporting coal and LNG. When you export, local users have to pay a competitive price to get the fuel.

Wind and solar have no fuel costs. And you can see this in the wholesale prices in the various states. Vic and SA have expanded greatly in renewables, and done well; Qld has stuck with coal, as has NSW, mostly. Here from the AEMO Q1 report are the prices for the states, Q! in recent years:

comment image

KevinM
Reply to  Nick Stokes
June 6, 2023 2:40 pm

Are you saying that wind and solar are not competing even when their fuel is free? With some sources I’m used to hearing they would be useful if example/oil price increased to example/$100USD/bbl.

Nick Stokes
Reply to  KevinM
June 6, 2023 3:01 pm

Far from it. In SA and Vic, heavily into wind and solar, the prices are about half those in Qld.

For competitiveness, here are the state interconnector figures. Victoria exports to all its neighbours. Qld exports to NSW.

comment image

Reply to  Nick Stokes
June 6, 2023 3:25 pm

The chart ignores the subsidies for wind and solar, the $25 billion AU spent to prop up wind and solar far exceeds the wholesale costs.

Nick Stokes
Reply to  nutmeg
June 6, 2023 4:36 pm

$25 billion AU spent”

That is cumulative, and no doubt handsomely exaggerated. But renewables now generate about 50 TWh/year and rising fast, and at $80/MWh wholesale, that is worth about $4 B per year. So the subsidy was a good deal.

Reply to  Nick Stokes
June 6, 2023 10:00 pm

is that ‘Grid renewables’ or home user rooftop solar which peaks outside the morning and evening peak demand
Victoria used to be always be an exporter of power ( and gas for generation interstate) but becoming an importer of power happens regularly now

Chris Hanley
Reply to  Nick Stokes
June 6, 2023 3:30 pm

Apart from Tasmania that relies on mostly hydro South Australia has by far the highest reliance on wind and solar (67%) and also has by far the highest retail electricity prices, Vic 33%, NSW 26% Queensland 20%.
According to Canstar (10/04/2023): “South Australians are the hardest hit when it comes to the average per kWh price of using power. And to add salt to the wounds, South Australians often miss out on big discounts and bonus perks. Households in Victoria and Queensland generally pay the lowest prices per kWh”.
VIc 20.95c/kWh QLD 25.61c/kWh NSW 28.66c/kWh SA 36.13c/kWh.

kenskingdom
Reply to  Chris Hanley
June 7, 2023 12:35 am

The reason for SA having highest retail prices? They have no coal, only gas to back up renewables, plus power bought from interstate.

Reply to  Nick Stokes
June 6, 2023 3:35 pm

Wind and solar have no fuel costs.

The crime syndicate set up to thieve from electricity consumers in Australia currently garners $55/MWh for any energy coming from grid scale wind or solar generators. That cost is added after the wholesale price and is more than the average wholesale price of coal before Rudd.

South Australians have the highest retail costs because the gap between wholesale price and retail is rising. And the theft is higher there because consumers are more exposed to “renewables” that garners $55/MWh at retail level. South Australia also sets the course for future. Wealthy consumers are abandoning the grid.

Vic and SA have expanded greatly in renewables, and done well

No they haven’t. They pay the highest retail price. The future for Australia is socialised grid electricity of poor quality similar to that in South Africa while those wanting reliable power will make their own. Victoria is gradually socialising electricity; the first to provide the energy cost relief bonus, which is no in operation Australia wide. The first to reinstate its electricity commission.

The reason wholesale electricity prices have gone up have nothing to do with fuel prices. They have gone up because wind and solar are not competitive with coal and coal can charge whatever they want up to the cost of gas generation on most days. Coal no longer competes with coal. What is left is essential. In fact Australia is yet to get through July to prove that Liddell was not essential.

Scissor
Reply to  RickWill
June 6, 2023 3:53 pm

Excellent comment there.

Graham
Reply to  Nick Stokes
June 6, 2023 3:36 pm

You have learnt nothing Nick.
If wind and solar power is so cheap because there is no fuel to pay for why are power charges sky rocketing ?

Mr.
Reply to  Graham
June 6, 2023 4:47 pm

Indeed.
If wind and solar were the clear free market winners of electricity production and retail provision, there would not even BE any other solutions considered.

Wind and solar are government contrived / mandated imposts upon hapless consumers of one of modern life’s essentials.

Next will be proteins and carbohydrates for human energy and nutrition.

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Mr.
June 6, 2023 5:05 pm

there would not even BE any other solutions considered”

It takes time. Here are the recent trends, from the same AEMO report:

comment image

Mr.
Reply to  Nick Stokes
June 6, 2023 5:41 pm

And what then happens for the days on end when the wind doesn’t blow and the sun doesn’t shine (which events frequently coincide)?

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Mr.
June 6, 2023 5:43 pm

The power stays on.

Mr.
Reply to  Nick Stokes
June 6, 2023 7:02 pm

See, many of us just don’t buy the old –
“and then a miracle happens”
part of the formula Nick.

We drive through the countryside all over the world, and we see acres and acres of still wind turbine blades, day after day, night after night on end.

So we ask “experts” like you “what’s up with that” but we never get any sensible, credible answers.

Reply to  Nick Stokes
June 6, 2023 10:07 pm

How?

Reply to  Nick Stokes
June 6, 2023 10:09 pm

Not if you are a major user , demand management means they are paid handsomely to switch their usage to off peak or not at all.
That can only happen for so much into near future
For Victoria which still uses a lot of natural gas for home domestic usage- often peak usage, they cant foreseeably switch to electricity.
When I lived in Melbourne my place was gas central heating ( winters are cold), hot water tank and stove so electricity usage was minimal.

Reply to  Nick Stokes
June 7, 2023 1:15 am

The power, if it stays on, stays on because of the hydrocarbons you slyly consume in the background to power your …er…power lust?

Reply to  Nick Stokes
June 7, 2023 7:38 am

And what then happens for the days on end when the wind doesn’t blow and the sun doesn’t shine (which events frequently coincide)?

The power stays on. How exactly?

Reply to  Nick Stokes
June 6, 2023 3:44 pm

‘Those have risen hugely because of our move to exporting coal and LNG.’

Gotta hand it to you crafty Australians, Nick, i.e., getting all those nasty countries to crater their economies by buying expensive Australian coal and LNG.

Reply to  Frank from NoVA
June 6, 2023 10:17 pm

Except WA which regulated a good % of gas production for domestic use thus broke the link from international prices.
Australia export of iron ore minerals, food , wool meat , grains is all linked to international prices which locals also pay. So nothing ‘crafty’ about the linkage.

The US and EU are the opposite , have trade barriers so that farmers especially are paid much higher than international food prices. I think cars in US have tariffs still- except from Canada and Mexico , which is why manufacturers set up production in many cases to reap the rewards from higher domestic prices

Reply to  Nick Stokes
June 6, 2023 5:30 pm

“Wind and solar have no fuel costs”

Wind and solar also have no output when there is no wind or sunshine.

Add the cost of dispatchable generation to cover the wind/solar doldrums for the real cost of renewables.

Reply to  John in Oz
June 7, 2023 1:26 am

Add the cost of…

…mining the minerals for these high-tech toys, the cost of “peace keepers” and security personnel, and tactical advisors, and refugee displacement, and peace conferences about the stupid indigenous infidels who refuse to understand they can’t hunt here anymore, and the processing of said liberated resources, and the manufacturing, and transport, and installation, and then we have to consider nothing lasts forever, what is the cost of replacement, disposal, especially for batteries filled with neurotoxins and water table pollutants…
I would love to see the TOTAL cost per MWh over the span of a human generation.
No, I’m too lazy to do it myself, but my own personal bias allows me to rest assured that I “have no need for facts, when I hold the moral high ground”.
(Hey, it’s good enough for the Nicks’n’Manns)

Reply to  Nick Stokes
June 7, 2023 5:16 am

“When you export, local users have to pay a competitive price to get the fuel.”

But isn’t there a lot of coal in AU? So, the coal industry should be able to expand to meet local needs- if it were allowed to- so the fact that some is exported can’t be driving up the cost to AU.

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
June 8, 2023 10:19 am

From Wiki
In 2016, Australia was the biggest net exporter of coal, with 32% of global exports (389 Mt out of 1,213 Mt total). It was the fourth-highest producer with 6.9% of global production (503 Mt out of 7,269 Mt total). 77% of production was exported (389 Mt out of 503 Mt total).”
Our transport facilities are good. A two-price structure can’t be sustained.


KevinM
June 6, 2023 2:36 pm

there is a rapidly closing window of opportunity to secure a liveable and sustainable future for all.
For how long can a window rapidly close without actually shutting? Seriously I know this is no place for getting a real answer but how could the author of the sentence not have wondered the same question when he wrote it? What a s- waste of ink or pixels.

Scissor
Reply to  KevinM
June 6, 2023 3:47 pm

I agree. Some words sound nice together but mean about as much as wet laundry strung out on a clothesline.

The future will come no matter what and, other than that, perhaps nothing else is really sustainable anyway. We all will live until we don’t.

Sometimes we should not worry about the window in any case, and instead just slap the mosquitoes or otherwise let them buzz off.

Reply to  KevinM
June 6, 2023 4:46 pm

Kind of like Zeno’s Paradox

Reply to  KevinM
June 7, 2023 3:54 pm

My hope is that the “rapidly closing window of opportunity” never actually closes. Isn’t that how Freedom-Loving humans operate?

Chris Hanley
June 6, 2023 2:52 pm

“Since then, the contribution of wind and solar energy to electricity generation has grown from almost nothing to over 20 per cent today”.

That annual figure is often quoted along with coal (53%) gas (19%) hydro (6%) and others but is misleading because all except wind and solar are constant reliable sources while wind and solar are intermittent i.e. at times next to 0%.
Just another example of the push to ‘renewables’ relying on half-truths and deception.
The discussion on ‘climate change’ (meaning human-caused global warming) is irrelevant in the Australian context because the country’s prosperity and government revenues depend to a great extent on selling coal on the world markets.
Like politicians in other so-called First World countries the current government suffers from galloping cognitive dissonance: “the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioural decisions and attitude change” (Oxford).

Reply to  Chris Hanley
June 6, 2023 3:27 pm

The discussion on ‘climate change’ (meaning human-caused global warming) is irrelevant in the Australian context because the country’s prosperity and government revenues depend to a great extent on selling coal on the world markets.

I would have thought that makes it very relevant, in the Australian context.

Alas, the world does not exist for the betterment of Australia’s economic prosperity. If Australia has lots of coal it can’t sell because of climate change, then it’ll have to adapt, like everywhere else. Free markets, and all that.

Chris Hanley
Reply to  TheFinalNail
June 6, 2023 3:59 pm

What makes you think coal is on the way out?

Graham
Reply to  TheFinalNail
June 6, 2023 5:10 pm

China and India are increasing their coal use dramatically and emissions are counted as theirs as the coal is burnt..Emissions from mining and and transport to the port are Australias emissions .
If you are so sharp why is it that food produced in one country and consumed in another not treated the same as coal .Fuel for people .?

Reply to  TheFinalNail
June 7, 2023 1:29 am

If Australia has lots of coal it can’t sell because of climate change, then it’ll have to adapt, like everywhere else.

If Australia has lots of coal it can’t sell because of climate change charlatans attaining positions of power, then it’ll have to adapt, like everywhere else.
There, fixt’t fer ya!
Now go get a dictionary, and enlighten us on the meaning of “Free Market”.

Dave Andrews
Reply to  TheFinalNail
June 7, 2023 7:41 am

In 2000 coal use worldwide was 4699 million tonnes (Mt). In 2022 it was expected to be 8038Mt – China 4250Mt, India 1103Mt, Other Asia 898Mt, US 465Mt, Europe478Mt, ROW 831Mt.

In August 2022 China’s coal powered generation reached over 500TWh a Monthly level of generation that is higher than the total ANNUAL coal power generation of any other country, except India and the US.

China, India and Indonesia are the worlds three largest producers of coal and their coal use is increasing steadily and will continue to do so as will that in the rest of Asia.

The energy sector is the source of about 75% of global greenhouse gas emissions so it matters little what the west chooses foolishly to do – emissions world wide are are going to increase.

All information from IEA ‘Coal 2022 Analysis and Forecast to 2025′(Dec 2022)

June 6, 2023 3:04 pm

Up to 1850, global temperature variations had nothing to do with emissions.

It does not follow that global temperatures since 1850 can not therefore be affected by emissions.

Reply to  TheFinalNail
June 6, 2023 5:52 pm

Do you or the author have any evidence that global temperatures have been affected by CO2 emissions since 1850?

AGW is Not Science
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
June 7, 2023 7:53 am

Nope. Just hypothetical bullshit and extrapolation heaped on top.

Just like always.

June 6, 2023 3:16 pm

Are natural cycles more important – and possibly much more important – than human-induced emissions? This is not yet known, and until it is known, 

It is known ny anyone who wants to know. CO2 has no direct influence on Earth’s energy balance. The reason is identified in the scientific literature dating back to 1970s – energy uptake is limited by the maximum sustainable open ocean surface temperature of 30C.

This basic fact is identifiable any day of the year somewhere on the planet. Right now the Arabian Sea is going into convective overdrive. The surface temperature has been above 30C for a couple of weeks and the resulting convective potential is now shifting reducing surface heat input and will transports large amounts of heat from the ocean to land:
https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/ocean/surface/level/overlay=sea_surface_temp/orthographic=-294.04,3.07,371/loc=64.922,14.804

Convective instability limits the energy input. Ocean surface cannot sustain more than 30C because monsoon sets in and the clouds become persistent.

Scissor
Reply to  RickWill
June 6, 2023 4:07 pm

The spherical cow mentality is so alive and well amongst climate scientists and other idiots.

I met an environmentalist last night at a meeting reception. He seemed nice and he had a whole elevator pitch prepped about his environment passions, which included using hemp to solve climate change via house construction, soil remediation, fuel production, etc. If he hadn’t seemed so nice, I was thinking that hemp rope could solve many more problems.

Of course, or not surprisingly, he was unable to answer any technical questions. Still I would have bought him a beer, except that I didn’t even buy one for myself at $13 each. Free beer seems to be more difficult to find lately.

Anyway, do you have a bibliography of important papers regarding your theory, in particular the literature from the 1970’s that you made mention? Actually, one or two 1970’s references would be fine.

Reply to  Scissor
June 6, 2023 10:48 pm

The first one to cotton on to the reason was Ramanathan:
https://www.nature.com/articles/351027a0

Observations made during the 1987 El Niño show that in the upper range of sea surface temperatures, the greenhouse effect increases with surface temperature at a rate which exceeds the rate at which radiation is being emitted from the surface. In response to this ‘super greenhouse effect’, highly reflective cirrus clouds are produced which act like a thermostat shielding the ocean from solar radiation. The regulatory effect of these cirrus clouds may limit sea surface temperatures to less than 305 K.

The sustainable limit is 30C (303K) Although it can overshoot to 32C. There are also semi-enclosed regions where convective instability cannot form because mid level dry air prevents the formation of a level of free convection.

Ramanathan did not quantify the process. I looked at the control action over three tropical moored buoys; set out in Part 1 here:
http://www.bomwatch.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Bomwatch-Willoughby-Main-article-FINAL.pdf

This is another of my papers that goes into more quantitative detail on convective instability:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/07/23/ocean-atmosphere-response-to-solar-emr-at-top-of-the-atmosphere/

This one has some interesting observations on convergence and divergence to warm pools:
https://dyuthi.cusat.ac.in/xmlui/bitstream/handle/purl/3796/sst-conv-relation-IJC.pdf?sequence=1

The early references are almost throw aways because they were done at a time when the Earth’s surface was cooling.

Bob
June 6, 2023 3:18 pm

Damn, this guy is right on the mark. Well done.

June 6, 2023 3:34 pm

‘In short, while scientists agree that human-induced emissions cause global warming, they do not agree on whether such emissions are the main driver of such warming.’

I wish skeptics would stop making these kinds of remarks, because there’s no evidence that human emissions of CO2 have caused any warming. It reminds me of economists who say that socialism is theoretically superior to capitalism — whether it’s AGW or socialism, at some point we need to just acknowledge that if the respective theories don’t work in practice, they must be bad theories

Scissor
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
June 6, 2023 4:13 pm

I was cleaning up my lab today and accidentally bumped and opened a CO2 valve. While only brief, the resulting dry ice snow emitted was cold as heck.

Reply to  Scissor
June 6, 2023 5:37 pm

Thank goodness you survived! Have you filed the required reports to the authorities yet?

Scissor
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
June 6, 2023 7:34 pm

I’m the quiet type.

Reply to  Scissor
June 7, 2023 1:32 am

yeah….but now we all know….Hmmm

June 6, 2023 3:43 pm

Reliable and low-cost, coal-fired electricity produces a higher level of greenhouse-gas emissions than electricity based on natural gas, renewables, or nuclear power.

This is fallacy. “Renewables” just shift the coal consumption to China. The only way the western world gets to NetZero is with cooperation from China burning vast amounts of coal to make all the stuff needed for the transition. “Renewables” do not reduce the amount of coal required, They just shift its consumption to China.

Nothing exists in the modern world without coal.

Beta Blocker
June 6, 2023 3:48 pm

I’ll presume that Nick Stokes has no problem with the upcoming closure in mid-2025 of the 2880 Mw Eraring Power Station north of Sydney. (Is the Sydney Opera House lighted with power from Eraring?)

Reply to  Beta Blocker
June 6, 2023 10:53 pm

Both State and Federal Governments are not convinced that Liddell was disposable, with just reason. There were numerous times during May when NSW was operating with insufficient reserve. When it gets cold, I expect Tomago will be asked to go into hibernation for a couple of hours.

davidburrows9
June 6, 2023 4:13 pm

Coal, the way to go. Though better with soot capture in place as a sooty atmosphere cools the planet.

Reply to  davidburrows9
June 7, 2023 1:33 am

AH, love the smell of logic on a cold morn..

antigtiff
June 6, 2023 4:22 pm

I think Ukraine would prefer coal to the disasters now caused by Czar Putey Putin….he just blew the hydro dam as his latest war crime….this also threatens the nuke plant’s cooling….it is operating at min capacity but unlike Thorium Liquid Salts Cooled Reactors, this one cannot be easily shut down. Crazy Putey in worst case could pollute the whole Mediterranean Sea with radioactivity. This is a big deal for the entire world….way to go Crazy Putin.

Reply to  antigtiff
June 6, 2023 6:05 pm
antigtiff
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
June 6, 2023 6:49 pm

Yes, I am sure….it’s the kind of crime that a POS like Putey commits….he needs a little piece of lead in his head. It was known months ago that Ruzzians had mined the power plant. They control the nuke plant too.

Reply to  antigtiff
June 6, 2023 8:36 pm

Are you really sure it was the Russians? Apparently, your friends had been practicing…

https://realclimatescience.com/2023/06/protecting-democracy/

antigtiff
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
June 7, 2023 6:34 am

Frank….I must speak frankly….either you are ignorant on the subject of Putey Putin…or you are a Putey lover. Ukraine does not gain from the dam being destroyed and Ukraine would not send ineffective drones in daylight to go pop over the Kremlin….Putey is like Hitler….he would burn the Reichstag down and blame it on the innocent.

Reply to  antigtiff
June 7, 2023 12:06 pm

‘[E]ither you are ignorant on the subject of Putey Putin…or you are a Putey lover.‘

False dichotomy. Try again.

Reply to  antigtiff
June 6, 2023 10:34 pm

The evidence is now that it was the ukrainians for the Nord Stream pipe blown up, the drone attacks on the Kremlin and same for the Dam explosions.
Ukraine just denies everything all the time , not sure why as its aimed at their enemy

Reply to  Duker
June 7, 2023 5:12 am

I doubt Ukraine has the capability to blow up several pipes at the same time. Of course they wanted the pipes gone- but somebody will have to explain how they could actually do it. They don’t have a navy. I wouldn’t be surprised if America or the UK did it- that makes more sense than Russia blowing up its own pipes- but Ukraine?

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
June 7, 2023 4:09 pm

All the intel of the western countries says so, from leaks of original documents Most of us dont have the knowledge to decide what capabilities were needed. It really happened so thats just junk talk
As for No Navy in Baltic , thats a red herring as it was intended to be a undercover so commercial boats were hired , and its now known the actual boats used.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/06/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-ukraine-russia/
‘U.S. had intelligence of detailed Ukrainian plan to attack Nord Stream pipeline’
The actual operation fitted closely the US intel on the planning by Ukraine

Reply to  antigtiff
June 7, 2023 1:34 am

Go home, troll.

Geoff Sherrington
June 6, 2023 6:46 pm

Brian,
The ABS CPI graph that I prefer is this one. Minor differences,you use an all items index whereas I use capital cities basket of goods.
Main difference is the time span.
A longer X-axis shows some of the impact of letting “renewables” into the grid system here. Consumer price for electricity broadly doubled in the few years afrer 2008.
Geoff S
comment image

June 6, 2023 8:43 pm

Professor Michael Asten writes “Up to 1850, global temperature variations had nothing to do with emissions”

He is totally wrong, probably speaking of CO2 emissions, which have never been proven to have any climatic effect in the global environment.

Up to 1850, global temperature variations were driven solely by the presence or absence of volcanic SO2 aerosol emissions in the atmosphere. Since then, increasing or decreasing levels of industrial SO2 aerosols have been added to the mix.

Currently, due to Net-Zero efforts to ban the burning of fossil fuels, which also produce SO2 emissions, Industrial SO2 aerosol emissions have fallen to levels where temperatures are now beginning to rise, on their way to those of the MWP, when there was very little volcanic activity to mute the intensity of the solar radiation striking the Earth’s surface..

Such temperatures are inevitable, and will be a catastrophe for modern civilization, with its population of > 7 billion.

A volcanic eruption would provide temporary relief, for a couple of years..

AGW is Not Science
Reply to  BurlHenry
June 7, 2023 8:50 am

The catastrophe for modern human civilization would be the Little Ice Age climate, not the Medieval Warm Period climate.

They didn’t call the warmest climate of the current epoch, the Holocene, the “Holocene Climate OPTIMUM” for nothing.

Reply to  AGW is Not Science
June 7, 2023 9:38 am

AGW is Not Science:

The Holocene Climate OPTIMUM is a misnomer.

Do some research. The MWP, for example, was a period with world-wide droughts and starvation that caused the demise of earlier cultures, such as in our South West, and Central America, the “Hunger Stones” in Europe, and undoubtedly elsewhere, along with other weather-related disasters.

I agree that a return to LIA temperatures would be disastrous. but we have already seen that heat waves can also be deadly.

observa
June 6, 2023 8:54 pm

Peta Credlin notices that at long last power grid insiders are speaking up about the train wreck that’s coming-
Ignorant voters lecturing Australians have drunk the climate ‘Kool-Aid’ | Sky News Australia

First comes their failed prescriptions with ‘please explain?’ and then will follow the questioning of the basis for their whole dooming mantra. It could easily be as breathtakingly swift and stunning as the fall of the Wall which triggered them to begin with. Namely turning their red uniforms inside out to display a green lining.

Time for the smart crony capitalist money to jump off the dooming gravy train.

Reply to  observa
June 6, 2023 11:10 pm

Good interview. Matthew Warren seems to be broken. His hopium is no longer working. He is staring at reality and it looks bleak to him.

They only need Tomago dancing to the tune the wind plays and no major coal plant failures to make it through winter without Liddell – cross anything not crossed if you do not want to see blackouts. If there are blackouts, it will be blamed on unreliable coal.

observa
June 7, 2023 4:59 am

Seems caring paediatrician Louise Woodward et al want mums and dads to give up all that surrounding end product of fossil fuels in order to save the bubs from global warmening-
Paediatricians sign joint letter urging NT government to withdraw Beetaloo Basin fracking support (msn.com)
Very woke of you Louise and don’t forget to impress all that on the indigenous parents of the bub. No doubt they’ll roll out a Welcome to Country and Smoking Ceremony for you.

June 7, 2023 7:09 am

BurlHenry (BH) : “… CO2 emissions, which have never been proven to have any climatic effect in the global environment.”

Frank from NoVA (FfN) : “… there’s no evidence that human emissions of CO2 have caused any warming.”

This sort of “confident assertion” is, IMNSHO, a bit too categorical.

In “a coupled non-linear chaotic system” (IPCC TAR, 2001) it is often extremely difficult to isolate the “causes” of individual events.

See also the results of entering “the butterfly effect” into your favourite Internet search engine.

Note also that The Scientific Method (TSM) doesn’t ever “prove” that a given conjecture (/ hypothesis / theory / paradigm) is “definitely true, in all circumstances”.

A distinguishing feature of TSM is the presence of quantified data, i.e. concrete numbers, along with “error ranges” and/or “confidence intervals” in scientific papers (that are both peer-reviewed and published in “serious” journals).

TSM can only dis-prove conjectures. “Proof” is reserved for mathematics (/ logic) and alcohol.

– – – – –

Rick Will (RW) : “CO2 has no direct influence on Earth’s energy balance.”

TheFinalNail (TFN) : “It does not follow that global temperatures since 1850 can not therefore be affected by emissions.”

In “a coupled non-linear chaotic system” (IPCC TAR, 2001) it is often extremely difficult to isolate the “causes” of long-term trends, let alone assign percentages to each individual factor.

Neither “X cannot be a factor” nor “X must be a factor” assertions (or implications or inferences) are justified.

– – – – –

A quantified conjecture for “CO2 emissions causes GMST increases” is given by the IPCC in the Technical Summary of the AR6 WG-I assessment report, in section TS.3.2.1, “Equilibrium Climate Sensitivity, Transient Climate Response, and Transient Climate Response to Cumulative Carbon-dioxide Emissions”, on page 94 :

The transient climate response to cumulative CO2 emissions (TCRE) is the ratio between globally averaged surface temperature increase and cumulative CO2 emissions (see Glossary). This report reaffirms with high confidence the finding of AR5 that there is a near-linear relationship between cumulative CO2 emissions and the increase in global average temperature caused by CO2 over the course of this century for global warming levels up to at least 2°C relative to 1850-1900. The TCRE falls likely in the 1.0°C-2.3°C per 1000 PgC range, with a best estimate of 1.65°C per 1000 PgC.

NB : See also section 5.5, “Remaining Carbon Budgets”, from pages 742 to 755 of the main report.

The last sentence in the above extract from the TS gives us a quantified “conjecture” we can actually test against thermometer measurements !

We will have large “error ranges” due to gaps (in both space and time) in the coverage of this empirical data, but with a wide enough “confidence interval” we should be able to (mostly ???) compensate for that.

The IPCC is fond of the HadCRUT datasets, so let’s use the HadCRUT5 (infilled / “analysis”) version as our subject for study.

See graph attached below for the results of a “first pass / very crude” comparison between what the TCRE conjecture “predicted (/ hind-cast)” for the 1850-2022 period and what actually occurred.

Notes

1) The only “good” correlation is from ~2005/2010 to 2022. 15 years isn’t long enough to establish a statistically significant “climate” trend.

2) From 1850 to 1910/1920 and 1935/1935 to 1975/1980 the TCRE conjecture doesn’t even give us the correct sign for the supposed “correlation”.

3) The empirical data has only remained completely within the “confidence interval” since ~1975/1980.

TCRE_7.png
Reply to  Mark BLR
June 7, 2023 7:21 am

NB : With my computer setup I can only attach one image file from my local hard disk per WUWT post.

In switching to “the TCRE concept” to justify their calculations for future “carbon budgets”, the IPCC has neatly sidestepped the issue of having to provide concrete numbers to questions like :
In which year will humanity cross any specific emissions threshold ?, or
How long have “we” got before “we” have gone too far with emissions ?

They also “zoom in” to the period (post 1970-ish) when there is a reasonable “eyeballed correlation” between the TCRE numbers and reality, and mask the “drift down (from 1850 to ~1910), then ramp up (from ~1910 to 1940/5), then drift down again (from ~1940/5 to ~1975/80)” zig-zag pattern that completely contradicts the TCRE “prediction” for the pre-1980 period.

It’s actually quite clever, when you see exactly what they’ve done here …

TCRE_8.png
June 7, 2023 10:49 am

“Asian Coal and LNG Prices Are Plunging”Robert Bryce

June 7, 2023 3:44 pm

Mark Mills of the Manhattan Institute explains the battery problem in relation to the US: ‘The annual output of Tesla’s Gigafactory, the world’s largest battery factory, could store three minutes’ worth of annual US electricity demand. It would require 1,000 years of production to make enough batteries for two days’ worth of US electricity demand.’ (The New Energy Economy: an Exercise in Magical Thinking)”

This statement will not stop Nick.

observa
Reply to  sturmudgeon
June 7, 2023 5:48 pm

This statement will not stop Nick.

He’s into optimistic computer modelling and wonderful things-
Here’s how many lives would be saved by switching to EV-only sales (msn.com)
Beggar thy Asian neighbours with all their necessary coal fired green goodies causing their dooming not so much. It’s the way these climate changers roll.

June 8, 2023 7:34 am

The enthusiasts for Weather-Dependent “Renewables” always forget to account of their productivity. Across Europe in 2022 they achieved overall ~17% productivity / capacity percentage. In other words to contribute a unit of power to the Grid you need about six times the nameplate value of Weather-Dependent generators. This of course still says nothing about the intermittency and unreliability of Weather-Dependent “Renewables”.

https://edmhdotme.wordpress.com/3-graphs-say-it-all-for-renewables/ story tip

Talking of Coal: Kilogram for Kilogram a heap of Coal is about 13,000 times cheaper than a Tesla Battery for equivalent energy storage.

coal heap.png