The Great Climate Con | Alex Epstein | #312

Jordan B Peterson

Dr. Peterson’s extensive catalog is available now on DailyWire+: https://utm.io/ueSXh

Dr. Jordan B. Peterson and Alex Epstein discuss the undeniable need for fossil fuels, the toxic underlying nihilism of the “climate concerned” left, the need for balance between conservation and human progress, and the unexplored worth of wild potential.

Alex Epstein is a philosopher and energy expert who argues that “human flourishing” should be the guiding principle of energy and environmental progress. He is the author of the new bestselling book Fossil Future: Why Global Human Flourishing Requires More Oil, Coal, and Natural Gas—Not Less. He is also the creator of EnergyTalkingPoints.com—a source of powerful, well-referenced talking points on energy, environmental, and climate issues.

Chapters –

(0:00) coming up
(1:28) Intro
(3:36) Fossil Future
(6:17) The metric for success
(12:28) Nature viewed as a god, Fusion
(16:49) Hostility toward impact
(21:33) How the climate cult evolved
(24:09) What drives the anti-capitalist ethos?
(30:30) The planet has gotten 15 percent greener
(33:20) Conceptions of Earth
(35:24) The world without humanity
(38:48) The underlying Nihilism
(43:00) Worth of man to the Left
(45:14) The toxicity of modern environmentalism
(50:35) Moral monopoly, Bjørn Lomborg
(59:35) Climate Denier, propaganda
(1:05:00) 50+ years, a complete failure as a movement
(1:07:20) Keeping the third world poor
(1:12:10) Actual concern for the poor
(1:15:00) Climate Reparations
(1:16:30) Moral Aesthetics
(1:20:10) Importance of conservation
(1:23:30) Existential guilt, sufficient value
(1:28:03) Delicate nurture dogma, wild potential

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doonman
December 8, 2022 10:54 pm

The fact that people are better off now than 100 years ago concerning climate driven disasters through the use of fossil fuels is indisputable. Those that wish to argue this fact can be silenced immediately using three words.

“The Donner Party”

Allan MacRae
Reply to  doonman
December 9, 2022 2:42 am

“The Donner Party 2.0” – let’s go BIG – let’s do whole countries this time.

This will not be easy to watch. I told you so 20 years ago.
This winter will be hell, especially in Britain and Germany. Very cold and a shortage of reliable energy.

PREDICTION OF THE CARNAGE THIS WINTER IN EUROPE
The cull of the elderly and poor
We published the important conclusions to this debate in 2002 and nothing has changed:
The alleged Climate Crisis is a fifty-year-old scam, and “green energy” is not green and does not produce much useful energy.
The Climate scammers have wasted trillions of dollars and millions of lives on fraud.

FOR THE RECORD, WE PUBLISHED IN 2002:
1.    “Climate science does not support the theory of catastrophic human-made global warming – the alleged warming crisis does not exist.”
2.    “The ultimate agenda of pro-Kyoto advocates is to eliminate fossil fuels, but this would result in a catastrophic shortfall in global energy supply – the wasteful, inefficient energy solutions proposed by Kyoto advocates simply cannot replace fossil fuels.”
– by Sallie Baliunas (Astrophysicist, Harvard-Smithsonian), Tim Patterson (Paleoclimatologist, Carleton U), Allan MacRae (Professional Engineer, retired (Queen’s U, U of Alberta)

I PUBLISHED ON SEPTEMBER 1, 2002 in the Calgary Herald:
3.    “If [as we believe] solar activity is the main driver of surface temperature rather than CO2, we should begin the next cooling period by 2020 to 2030.”

I UPDATED MY GLOBAL COOLING PREDICTION IN 2013:
3a. “I suggest global cooling starts by 2020 or sooner. Bundle up.”
[Some say global cooling started in Feb2016, but I prefer Feb2020.]

AN OPEN LETTER TO BARONESS VERMA
British Undersecretary for Energy and Climate Change, 31Oct2013
By Allan MacRae, B.A.Sc.(Eng.), M.Eng.
[excerpt]
So here is my real concern:
IF the Sun does indeed drive temperature, as I suspect, Baroness Verma, then you and your colleagues on both sides of the House may have brewed the perfect storm.
You are claiming that global cooling will NOT happen, AND you have crippled your energy systems with excessive reliance on ineffective grid-connected “green energy” schemes.
I suggest that global cooling probably WILL happen within the next decade or sooner, and Britain will get colder.
I also suggest that the IPCC and the Met Office have NO track record of successful prediction (or “projection”) of global temperature and thus have no scientific credibility.
I suggest that Winter deaths will increase in the UK as cooling progresses.
I suggest that Excess Winter Mortality, the British rate of which is about double the rate in the Scandinavian countries, should provide an estimate of this unfolding tragedy.

See CorrectPredictions.ca and my papers listed therein for proof.

Allan MacRae, B.A.Sc., M.Eng., Calgary
https://energy-experts-international.com/

JC
Reply to  doonman
December 9, 2022 6:14 am

The plains settlers who lived in houses made of sod were forerunners of the people who would feed help feed American and later the world. The sod houses quickly gave way to farm houses heated with coal. .Without coal, oil and later propane, the plains would have remained empty until the wind mills and solar panels of the 1990’s and the potatoes, bread, beef and pork chops that fed America would have been scarce and many of us enjoying having a life in in America would not exist. How dystopic is that?

Gums
Reply to  JC
December 9, 2022 8:54 am

Salute!

Thanks, JC.

Another thing to consider is that the settlers moving west were not very fearful of leaving their state, city, small farm,etc and strike out. Whereas today too many folks wish to remain and enjoy the fruits of labor that the descendants of those settlers provide today in quantity and quality.

The great grandmothers and great grandfathers of the producers today could not imagine what a quantum leap would be made possible after Standard Oil and others came along and Henry Ford, Holt Caterpillar, et al, made affordable tractors, reapers, distribution vehicles, etc possible..

And finally a hundred years ago, electricity production used fossil fuels and we could get power that did not depend upon dams.

Gums sends…

Last edited 1 month ago by Gums
JC
Reply to  Gums
December 9, 2022 10:16 am

Yeah the industrialization of farming was enabled by industrialization which was enabled by hydrocarbon fuel. The statement about solar panels and wind mills, which now dot the industrial land scape of the industrial depopulated farm country of the plains was tongue in cheek. Now industrial farming of the plans requires few people. The descendants of the plains farmers migrated in 1970-2000 to Portland and Seattle, SF, NYC, Chicago….what a loss for them.

Hydrocarbon enabled who we are today for good and bad. But we are alive.

JC
Reply to  JC
December 9, 2022 10:33 am

What we need now is to find a way to empower families… those who want to return to the land and farm without the colossal industrial approach which forced many off the land. Hydrocarbon fuel is key because there is no Grand Battery yet grid taxes, carbon taxes, fuel taxes and high colluded hydrocarbon prices are a barrier. The other barrier is that land prices are high and speculated on in a global market place.

Almost half of America in 1940 lived and worked on farms and grew their own food. There was no welfare state. Now the descendants of those people are totally dependent on payrolls and welfare and have filled up the Dem Cities. Iowa was staunchly conservative until the great exodus on the 1980’s. Many of the local towns, county seats have turned into welfare quagmires and are drug infested.

On the face of it, none of this is on topic. Except for the subtext that globalism did nothing for the descendants of the plains farmers and high taxes and energy prices destroys any opportunity for their living the American Dream.

Tomsa
Reply to  JC
December 9, 2022 5:29 pm

The industrial approach to farming is particularly reflected in the population change in North Dakota, from 2011 to 2021 the state grew 13%, however much of that was on account of the fracking in the Williston area, and the growth of cities such as Grand Forks, Fargo, and Bismarck. 29 mostly rural counties had a decline in population as much as 2147 in one.

Janice Moore
Reply to  JC
December 9, 2022 9:52 am

Without coal and petroleum, there would be no solar panels and windmills. And without fossil fuels, those parasitic power sources never will be made.

JC
Reply to  Janice Moore
December 9, 2022 10:17 am

Point taken. My comment about them was meant to be ironic tongue and check.

Joe Crawford
Reply to  doonman
December 9, 2022 10:57 am

In reference to the Donner Party, Judge M.B. Gerry, when handing down the sentence to Alfred E Packer, the only survivor, was supposed to have said something like:
“There wasn’t but seven Democrats in this county. And you, you son-of-bitch, you ate five of ’em.”

zzebowa
Reply to  doonman
December 13, 2022 2:31 am

Thats where the term “Donner Kebabs” came from…..

Graham
December 9, 2022 1:15 am

This should be compulsory viewing for every politician in the world .
Of course this will not happen as so many are blind to where they are taking their countries .
Just before the 1 hour into the podcast they explain how much that nitrogenous fertilizer combined with diesel fueled farm machinery and rising levels of CO2 are feeding the world .
The UN has a lot to answer for, pushing global warming then climate change and now trying to force the world to go carbon zero .
So many countries signed up to the Paris Accord and in the next 8 years the shi! will hit the fan as they enforce draconian rules ,cutting food production , bankrupting their countries .
Or they might wake up and tetll the UN where they can stick their zero carbon ..
Already fuel and all fertilizer is becoming very expensive which as they say will hurt the poor people first and it will gradually hurt more and more .
If people cannot afford to buy cheap food they will starve and producers in many countries have to cover their costs when the food is sold over seas .
Less food will be grown if prices received does not cover costs so it will become a downward spiral .
Some how the UN has to be forced to see reality other wise the world is in for a rough ride .
That is what the environmentalists are aiming for less people on this planet and that might include YOU.

AGW is Not Science
Reply to  Graham
December 9, 2022 10:29 am

Yeah when “environmentalists” want “less people” they always fail to volunteer for the cull they wish to inflict on the rest of humanity.

doonman
Reply to  AGW is Not Science
December 9, 2022 4:34 pm

Environmentalists are not bodhisattva’s. Never were and never will be.

CampsieFellow
December 9, 2022 3:54 am

“Wind and solar are intermittent at best.” The case of solar power is obvious but here’s an example for wind. Several days last week wind was providing more than 35% of the UK’s electricity generation. Today at 11.35am it is providing only 11%. If we have to rely on solar and wind in the UK, how are we supposed to fill that 20%+ gap.?

AGW is Not Science
Reply to  CampsieFellow
December 9, 2022 10:37 am

You not only DON’T “have to” rely on solar and wind in the UK (or for that matter, anywhere else), YOU CAN’T “RELY ON” solar and wind, anywhere.

As for “making up for” the worse-than-useless solar and wind, that, like everything else, will depend on fossil fuels.

Better solution: Ditch solar and wind, build coal, gas and nuclear power plants. That solution provides energy with lower cost, better reliability, and less environmental damage. In all three cases, BY FAR.

ferdberple
December 9, 2022 4:29 am

Vast amounts of oil and gas will be required to produce a green economy. Ironically this will increase carbon pollution as compared to simply doing nothing.

Wind mills and solar panels take years to pay back and thus do not produce enough surplus power to create a new green economy while also running the current economy. Extra oil and gas will be needed. Not less.

JamesB_684
Reply to  ferdberple
December 9, 2022 9:13 am

CO2 is not a pollutant, regardless of how often the alarmists say it is.

Janice Moore
Reply to  JamesB_684
December 9, 2022 9:57 am

Indeed. I am surprised to see the usually well-informed ferdberple use that inaccurate-to-the-point-of-ridiculous term, “carbon pollution.” (makes me wonder if his or her name has been hijacked…. 🤨)

1. It’s CO2, not carbon that is at issue.

2. CO2 is plant food. It is by no stretch of the imagination “pollution” as that word is commonly used.

Gums
Reply to  ferdberple
December 9, 2022 9:23 am

Salute!

Unless my engineering studies are completely wrong about electricity production and transmission. seems we would produce more of the evil gas that will destroy the planet to get electricity to the charging stations than if we just used petrol at the point of use. Transmission losses, resistance losses on power lines, and the beat goes on.

I understand the city polution problem, and how EV”s help, and I saw the change firsthand in the Los Angeles and Denver and Salt Lake City bowls after the early 70’s due to better motors, cleaner gas, etc. But the EV’s have to get charging from someplace, just NIMBY. EV’s don’t do a thing for the planet, just the crowded cities, and are nearly worthless in the wild west open range/farm country. Sheesh, Louise.

The economics are another discussion compared to basic electrical and mechanical principles.

Gums sends…

AGW is Not Science
Reply to  Gums
December 9, 2022 12:41 pm

The city pollution problems are basically gone, as you noted, due to much cleaner burning engines AND tight “evaporative” emission controls.

The toxic gasses emitted by burning EVs will emitted a hell of a lot more REAL pollution than what comes out of vehicle tail pipes these days.

INDOOR air is more polluted than outdoor air these days. At least in the States.

michaelrath250
December 9, 2022 9:53 am

Great discussion! Just a thought, when asshole Mann and others of his ilk talk about reducing the population why don’t they take the first step, as an example to us deniers, and just die? We wouldn’t miss any of them and they would be right – the world would immediately be a better place!

gyan1
December 9, 2022 9:56 am

Good choice of a headline! Con artists are who run the show on planet earth. They only succeed because there are so many naive patsies willing to be fleeced.

Bruce Cobb
December 9, 2022 12:34 pm

I have to wonder what John Muir, Thoreau, and others who championed conservation and preservation of the environment, especially wildernesses would think of today’s Climatism and push to “save the planet”. For one thing, I would think that plastering the landscape with wind and solar installations would rankle. I’m guessing they are rolling over in their graves about now at what is being done in the name of environmentalism.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
December 9, 2022 4:04 pm

comment image

John Muir: Well, T. R., what do you think about all those d—n windmills marring the beauty of America like cigarette butts on a birthday cake?

Teddy Roosevelt: “Do not let selfish men or greedy interests skin your country of its beauty, its riches or its romance.”

Muir: And you over there, Henry, stop eating pine nuts for half a minute and tell us WHY IN THE WORLD we can’t stop this parasitic blight?

Henry Thoreau: “[Because t]here are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root.”

T.R.: Exactly! All those worse-the-useless lukewarmists just create a swamp miring our country in folly with their feeble swipes at branches of “adaptation” and “some effect” and “sensitivity.” HOGWASH! What is needed is to fell the human CO2 syndicate at the root: there is no data showing a meaningful effect of human CO2 on climate.

Thoreau: What is needed is a non-conformist. Someone like Donald J. Trump!

********************************************
***********TRUMP 2024!******************
*********************************************

Last edited 1 month ago by Janice Moore
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