New York Zero Emission Vehicle Mandate

From the Pragmatic Environmentalist of New York

Roger Caiazza

The Climate Leadership and Community Protection Act (Climate Act) has a legal mandate for New York State greenhouse gas emissions to meet the ambitious net-zero goal by 2050.  On September 29, 2022 Governor Hochul directed the New York Department of Environmental Conservation to take major regulatory action that will require all new passenger cars, pickup trucks, and SUVs sold in New York State to be zero emissions by 2035.  As has been the case with all of the Administration’s global warming regulatory initiatives the pronouncement is not supported by any documentation.

Everyone wants to do right by the environment to the extent that they can afford to and not be unduly burdened by the effects of environmental policies.  I submitted comments on the Climate Act implementation plan and have written extensively on New York’s net-zero transition because I believe the ambitions for a zero-emissions economy embodied in the Climate Act outstrip available renewable technology such that this supposed cure will be worse than the disease.  The opinions expressed in this post do not reflect the position of any of my previous employers or any other company I have been associated with, these comments are mine alone.

Climate Act Background

The Climate Act establishes a “Net Zero” target (85% reduction and 15% offset of emissions) by 2050. The Climate Action Council is responsible for preparing the Scoping Plan that will “achieve the State’s bold clean energy and climate agenda”.  They were assisted by Advisory Panels who developed and presented strategies to the meet the goals to the Council.  Those strategies were used to develop the integration analysis prepared by the New York State Energy Research and Development Authority (NYSERDA) and its consultants that tried to quantify the impact of the strategies.  That material was used to write a Draft Scoping Plan that was released for public comment at the end of 2021. The Climate Action Council states that it will revise the Draft Scoping Plan based on comments and other expert input in 2022 with the goal to finalize the Scoping Plan by the end of the year.

In 2019 greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions from the transportation sector accounted for 28.2% of total GHG emissions so it is necessary to reduce transportation sector emissions to meet the Climate Act targets.  However, I explained in my comments that the Draft Scoping Plan did a poor job evaluating how a zero-emissions mandate would be implemented and an even worse job projecting the potential costs.  I will highlight some of the points made in my comments and also put this new mandate in context.

Hochul’s Announcement

The following is a substantial portion of the press release announcing the mandate:

Governor Kathy Hochul today commemorated National Drive Electric Week by directing the State Department of Environmental Conservation to take major regulatory action that will require all new passenger cars, pickup trucks, and SUVs sold in New York State to be zero emissions by 2035. This is a crucial regulatory step to achieving significant greenhouse gas emission reductions from the transportation sector and is complemented by new and ongoing investments also announced today, including electric vehicle infrastructure progress, zero-emission vehicle incentives, and ensuring New York’s communities benefit from historic federal climate change investments.

“New York is a national climate leader and an economic powerhouse, and we’re using our strength to help spur innovation and implementation of zero-emission vehicles on a grand scale,” Governor Hochul said. “With sustained state and federal investments, our actions are incentivizing New Yorkers, local governments, and businesses to make the transition to electric vehicles. We’re driving New York’s transition to clean transportation forward, and today’s announcement will benefit our climate and the health of our communities for generations to come.”

Proposing draft State regulations is a crucial step to further electrify the transportation sector and help New York achieve its climate requirement of reducing greenhouse gases 85 percent by 2050, while also reducing air pollution, particularly in disadvantaged communities. The State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) is expediting this regulatory process to implement legislation Governor Hochul signed last year and turn those goals into progress in fully transitioning to new zero-emission cars and trucks. California’s action finalizing the Advanced Clean Cars II regulation last month unlocked New York’s ability to adopt the same regulation.

The regulation will build upon existing regulations enacted in New York in 2012 by requiring all new sales of passenger cars, pickup trucks, and SUVs to be zero-emission by 2035. It would require an increasing percentage of new light-duty vehicle sales to be zero-emission vehicles (ZEV) starting with 35 percent of sales in model year 2026, 68 percent of sales by 2030, and 100 percent of sales by 2035. New pollutant standards for model year 2026 through model year 2034 passenger cars, light-duty trucks, and medium-duty vehicles with internal combustion engines would also be required. The regulation provides manufacturers with flexibility in meeting the emission requirements and achieving a successful transition to cleaner vehicles.

Adoption of Advanced Clean Cars II is included among the recommendations in the Climate Action Council’s Draft Scoping Plan and will be instrumental in achieving the greenhouse gas emissions reductions required in the Climate Leadership and Community Protection Act. In addition, reducing emissions will provide significant air quality benefits to many of New York’s disadvantaged communities, predominantly home to low-income Black, Indigenous, and People of Color, and often adjacent to transit routes with heavy vehicle traffic. The regulation will help address disproportionate risks and health and pollution burdens affecting these communities.

Department of Environmental Conservation Commissioner and Climate Action Council Co-Chair Basil Seggos said, “Governor Hochul is demonstrating her sustained commitment to the successful implementation of the Climate Act and ensuring all New Yorkers benefit from the State’s actions to address climate change. DEC will continue to work under her direction to rapidly issue this regulation and reach another milestone in the transition from fossil fuels so that more people, businesses, and governments will have the ZEV options to meet their needs and help improve the health of their communities.”

The directed regulatory action announced today builds on New York’s ongoing efforts to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases, including the adoption of the Advanced Clean Trucks regulation in December 2021. That regulation will drive an increase in the number of medium- and heavy-duty ZEV models available as purchase options for vehicle purchasers and fleets. In addition, several transit agencies including the Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority, the Rochester-Genesee Regional Transportation Authority, and the Metropolitan Transit Authority are leading by example with second wave deployments of electric buses. DEC, New York State Energy Research and Development Authority (NYSERDA), New York Power Authority (NYPA), and DOT (Department of Transportation) are assisting these authorities with these efforts.

Draft Scoping Plan Transportation Comments

I submitted a couple of comments on electric vehicles.  The emphasis in the first comment was my finding that the Integration Analysis is simply making assumptions about future zero-emissions transportation implementation strategies without providing adequate referenced documentation.  I provided numerous recommendations for additional documentation in these comments so that New Yorkers can understand what will be expected and how much it will cost.

As far as I can tell, the electric vehicle costs are based entirely on new vehicle sales. There is no acknowledgement that the used car market will likely change because of the cost of battery replacement.  Sellers will likely get less relative to new cars in the battery electric vehicle market.  Buyers may get a relative deal but will lose in the end when the batteries have to be replaced.  This is a particular concern for low and middle-income citizens who cannot afford new vehicles.

There is no bigger disconnect between the zero-emission vehicle (ZEV) proposed strategy and reality than the ZEV charging infrastructure requirements.  The biggest problem is that millions of cars will have to rely on chargers that cannot be dedicated for the owner’s personal use because the owners park on the street or in a parking lot.  In order to provide a credible ZEV strategy, the final Scoping Plan has to describe a plan how this could possibly work.  It is not enough to simply say it will work.

I also submitted a comment addressing electric vehicle costs.  the Integration Analysis vehicle cost projections rely on a single vehicle type for light-duty vehicles.  As a result, the projections are not particularly useful for many vehicle owners.  In order to accurately project the costs for this mandate the types of vehicles used has to be updated. 

Discussion

There is a paragraph in the press release that needs to be addressed:

The regulation will build upon existing regulations enacted in New York in 2012 by requiring all new sales of passenger cars, pickup trucks, and SUVs to be zero-emission by 2035. It would require an increasing percentage of new light-duty vehicle sales to be zero-emission vehicles (ZEV) starting with 35 percent of sales in model year 2026, 68 percent of sales by 2030, and 100 percent of sales by 2035. New pollutant standards for model year 2026 through model year 2034 passenger cars, light-duty trucks, and medium-duty vehicles with internal combustion engines would also be required. The regulation provides manufacturers with flexibility in meeting the emission requirements and achieving a successful transition to cleaner vehicles.

In 2026 the State will require 35% of all new vehicle sales to be zero-emission vehicles.  As of May 1, 2022 there were a little over 62,000 electric cars registered in New York out of the over 11 million vehicles registered.  The Integration Analysis projections for battery electric vehicles in 2026 range from 7.8% in the reference case to 24.3% in the most optimistic mitigation scenarios.  One of my criticisms of the Draft Scoping Plan is that the increase in projected sales is not supported by any recommendations for implementation. 

I have documented many electric vehicles issues but it is by no means an exhaustive list of the reasons I will never purchase an electric vehicle.  The State apparently believes that all that is necessary is a proclamation and all the reservations of all the people who are perfectly happy with internal combustion engines will be overcome.

Hochul’s proclamation fails to address the low and middle-income consumer concerns expressed by Robert Bryce in testimony before the House Select Committee on the Climate Crisis:

EVs … impose … societal costs that are likely to exacerbate inequality and lead to more energy poverty,” Bryce continued. “Those costs include taxpayer-funded subsidies given to EV buyers, publicly funded charging stations, and the grid upgrades that will be needed to support the electrification of light and heavy-duty vehicles. Those costs will impose a significant cost burden on low and middle-income consumers, even though those consumers are unlikely to purchase EVs.

Bryce also raised other issues in his testimony that are ignored in the grandstanding announcement:  

Electrifying parts of our transportation system may result in incremental reductions in greenhouse gas emissions, but a look at history, as well as an analysis of the supply-chain issues involved in manufacturing EVs, the resource intensity of batteries, and the increasingly fragile state of our electric grid – which is being destabilized by bad policy at the state and national levels – shows that a headlong drive to convert our transportation systems to run on ‘green’ electricity could cost taxpayers untold billions of dollars, increase greenhouse gas emissions, be bad for societal resilience, make the U.S. more dependent on commodity markets dominated by China, make us less able to respond to extreme weather events or attacks on our infrastructure, and impose regressive taxes on low and middle-income Americans in the form of higher electricity prices.

Finally, the ultimate rationale for this inane policy is to do something about climate change.  The reality is that New York emissions are inconsequential so this is nothing more than politically expedient climate virtue signaling.  New York’s GHG emissions are less than one half a percent of total global emissions and, on average, global GHG emissions have been increasing by more than one half a percent per year.  Anything we do will be wiped out be emissions elsewhere in a year.  Furthermore, the State has never published an estimate of the effect of New York emission reductions on global warming itself.  I estimate that the change to global warming from eliminating New York GHG emissions is only 0.01°C by the year 2100 which is too small to be measured much less have an effect on any of the purported damages of greenhouse gas emissions. 

Conclusion

In the press release Hochul claimed that “New York is a national climate leader and an economic powerhouse, and we’re using our strength to help spur innovation and implementation of zero-emission vehicles on a grand scale”.  The State’s obsession with being a climate leader is pointless.  Worse there is no recognition that the pursuit of zero emissions has unintended consequences and will likely cause more harm than good.  The lack of a public discussion of pragmatic considerations for the net-zero transition will ultimately seriously affect New York.

Author: rogercaiazza

I am a meteorologist (BS and MS degrees), was certified as a consulting meteorologist and have worked in the air quality industry for over 40 years. I author two blogs. Environmental staff in any industry have to be pragmatic balancing risks and benefits and (https://pragmaticenvironmentalistofnewyork.blog/) reflects that outlook. The second blog addresses the New York State Reforming the Energy Vision initiative (https://reformingtheenergyvisioninconvenienttruths.wordpress.com). Any of my comments on the web or posts on my blogs are my opinion only. In no way do they reflect the position of any of my past employers or any company I was associated with. View all posts by rogercaiazza

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John K. Sutherland
October 2, 2022 10:22 am

I will watch with interest as this slowly implodes.

Scissor
Reply to  John K. Sutherland
October 2, 2022 11:17 am

In the meantime, homeless camps are growing and burning all kinds of materials that certainly do create unregulated emissions.

Mike Lowe
Reply to  John K. Sutherland
October 2, 2022 12:33 pm

or maybe less slowly, as the case may be.

ResourceGuy
Reply to  John K. Sutherland
October 2, 2022 1:12 pm

…from a safe distance

They need zero people except politicos and billionaire tax targets for each new incremental rate increase and campaign funding push.

Reply to  John K. Sutherland
October 2, 2022 1:47 pm

they need to be pushed to go faster and fail sooner

MarkW
Reply to  Steven M Mosher
October 2, 2022 2:26 pm

They don’t need to be pushed, they are eager to fail.
Is there any organization that gives lessons in snark? Steve needs help.

Reply to  MarkW
October 2, 2022 6:25 pm

push for 100% by 2030.
they do need to be pushed if they are eager to fail they would accept the challenge.

your opponent wants to jump off the bridge in 12 years and you dont see any sense in pushing him to jump in 6 years.

seems like you are afraid they’ll suceed

Bill Toland
Reply to  Steven M Mosher
October 2, 2022 11:24 pm

The only way that this New York plan can succeed is a rewrite of the laws of physics. Obviously, New York politicians don’t know any physics and they don’t care.
This is the equivalent of proclaiming that time travel can be achieved by 2030 simply by stating it will happen. All that is required is funding and the techy guys will do the rest.

Oldseadog
Reply to  Bill Toland
October 3, 2022 2:03 am

I keep telling my civil engineer son to design a Tardis but he says he hasn’t the time.

MarkW
Reply to  Steven M Mosher
October 3, 2022 8:47 am

Your ability to read minds is as defective as the rest of your mental skills.

Bryan A
Reply to  Steven M Mosher
October 3, 2022 3:29 pm

But given the extreme levels of predicted sea level rise, surely waiting 12 years will raise the water level to bridge surface height making the fall far more survivable
Looks like no one gets your snarkgasm

Last edited 2 months ago by Bryan A
Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  John K. Sutherland
October 2, 2022 5:04 pm

What percentage of cars in NYC are actually kept somewhere where they an be charged? It has to be a much smaller percentage than even most cities.

Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
October 2, 2022 6:26 pm

charging wont be a problem

charging stations wont.

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Steven M Mosher
October 3, 2022 12:29 am

Multiply the number of current gas stations by the time required to charge divided by the time taken to fill with gas. That’s the land required for your charging stations.

And all that time spent hanging around waiting, and the additional cost of being fleeced by some enterprising corporations (eg Starbucks) while you wait.

I’m not keen!

Bryan A
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
October 3, 2022 3:35 pm

Considering that all EV sales include a home charging plug perhaps you’re supposed to refill the battery from a 120v outlet. Trickle charging overnight. If it is allowed.

Captain climate
Reply to  Steven M Mosher
October 3, 2022 5:06 am

Says the English major who cosplays as a scientist.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Captain climate
October 3, 2022 5:43 am

But he did work with engineers.

Drake
Reply to  Trying to Play Nice
October 3, 2022 5:48 pm

AND stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Steven M Mosher
October 3, 2022 5:42 am

Would you care to elaborate on why you think charging and charging stations won’t be a problem? Your comments are always just pronouncements as if you are the smartest man in the world. In my experience people who think that usually are clueless and exhibit advanced Dunning-Kruger effect.

Bryan A
Reply to  Trying to Play Nice
October 3, 2022 3:36 pm

Realistically neither will be a problem since you won’t be allowed to plug it in anyway

Dave Andrews
Reply to  Steven M Mosher
October 3, 2022 7:21 am

A recent report by McKinsey into charging in Europe, carried out in consultation with European Automobile Manufacturers Association, The European Association of Automotive Suppliers, Wind Europe, Solar Power Europe, Eurelectric, Charge Up Europe, Fuels Europe and the European Investment Bank found

6.8 million public charging points would be required by 2030 at a cost of 144 billion euros. 14,000 needed to be installed every week. The current rate of installation was 2000 per week 11% of the required rate.

I would be very surprised if the situation is any different in the US

Bryan A
Reply to  Dave Andrews
October 3, 2022 3:44 pm

Here’s a Tesla charging station in Santa Rosa
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Guerneville+Rd,+Santa+Rosa,+CA+95403/@38.4596443,-122.7303357,3a,75y,70.83h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sQc26miJEHmCpdPHi8eqIEQ!2e0!4m5!3m4!1s0x8084386fcb41a0ed:0x7670bda17bd20a0b!8m2!3d38.4596571!4d-122.7301778

Pan to the right a little and there are 20 of them surrounding a mega battery. Of course this one is a Tesla Exclusive recharging site

MarkW
Reply to  Steven M Mosher
October 3, 2022 8:49 am

One would think that an English major would be able to write in complete sentences, and manage to make sense.

Drake
Reply to  MarkW
October 3, 2022 5:50 pm

Not one who has read Mosh’s comments before.

Reply to  Steven M Mosher
October 3, 2022 5:13 pm

Charging stations won’t charge – no electricity.
Agreed.

Auto

ih_fan
Reply to  Steven M Mosher
October 7, 2022 11:19 am

charging wont be a problem

You obviously haven’t studied the issue.

David Solan
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
October 2, 2022 8:15 pm

Zig:
Just want to tell you, Zig Zag, how right you are. And few people mention it. I live in New York City. I estimate that 99% of the cars here have nowhere to be charged. Are you to hang a heavy-duty, electric cord from your eighth-floor window down to your car parked 3 blocks away around 2 corners? And charging stations won’t work because there are too many cars that will need too much electricity and there’s no way charging stations can supply that electricity to all those cars in any reasonable way in any reasonable time. This is a crazy dream, or should I say, nightmare.

David Solan

Reply to  David Solan
October 3, 2022 5:48 am

Throw is what happens when it snows and the complete disconnect between this plan and reality is obvious. it is so obvious that I have to question the motives of the politicians pushing it. All I can come up with is politically convenient and they will be out of office before the crap hits the fan.

MarkW
Reply to  Roger Caiazza
October 3, 2022 8:52 am

You also aren’t counting in what happens when all those charging cables get stolen because trying to meet the green guidelines has caused the value of copper to go through the roof.

Charles Higley
Reply to  Roger Caiazza
October 3, 2022 9:30 am

Absolutely correct, but you did not go far enough. Charging outside on a cold winter night would require that electricity be used to heat the battery pack. Conversely, on a hot day, charging would require that the pack be cooled while charging.

At the same time, EV range is cut by half on a cold winter day. And hot weather is hard on battery packs. Charging his gauged in miles/hour—miles of charging per hour. 15 miles/hr is a good number, apparently, but without a heated garage on a cold night this can be much lower. This means charging all night just to get 200–100 miles of range.

Fast charging is being intensely pursued, but nobody mentions that fast or supercharging decreases the life of the battery pack by 50%.

How many bandaids do they have to put on this incoherent dying pig before they are voted out of power or simply fired?

Oldseadog
Reply to  Charles Higley
October 3, 2022 9:37 am

Not sure that I would want to charge in a garage, heated or not.

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  David Solan
October 3, 2022 9:44 am

Some of us here in California hope that New York State will be the crash-test dummy that will cause the foolishness here to be stopped.

Dan Davis
Reply to  John K. Sutherland
October 2, 2022 6:29 pm

In my area around Tacoma, WA NEW “Gas Stations” are being built in amazing numbers! The HydroCarbon dealers know how stupid these poliTicks are. Need only look around and see over 99% of all vehicles on the road are NOT “zzzero” .

“Net Zero” is NUT Infinity!

Independent
October 2, 2022 10:26 am

Florida homebuilders had better pick up the pace!

London Broil
Reply to  Independent
October 2, 2022 10:35 am

Better Florida than Texas. Please do not come here. We are good.

Drake
Reply to  London Broil
October 3, 2022 5:52 pm

And weather is NEVER a problem!

Tom Halla
October 2, 2022 10:35 am

This is simply New York following whatever California’s CARB does, with the same total lack of sense. Ever giving California a carve out on smog rules was folly, as it allows a radical state to defacto set national policy.

Pete Bonk
Reply to  Tom Halla
October 2, 2022 11:00 am

You get crap policy when you elect to office ignorant, petulant child minds, fixated on an ideology that refuses to be introspective and will tolerate no discussion or dissent.

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  Pete Bonk
October 3, 2022 9:46 am

Just remember, half the electorate is below average. And they want the free stuff.

Slowroll
Reply to  Pete Bonk
October 3, 2022 9:55 am

Sounds just like bolshevism.

Albert H Brand
October 2, 2022 10:53 am

Now that Indian Point is history how are we going to generate all of the necessary power without adding more co2 to the atmosphere. At least that is good for the plants. I guess we could frack and have our own home grown gas. That’s a thought why send money to Texas.
,,!

Richard Page
Reply to  Albert H Brand
October 2, 2022 12:06 pm

New York won’t be able to supply enough power. Even with a doubling of existing power supply systems this would be next to impossible; one way or another this will lurch from bad to disaster in short order. Their virtue signalling is writing cheques that they are simply unable to cash.

Charles Higley
Reply to  Albert H Brand
October 3, 2022 9:33 am

I do not understand. Plants LOVE CO2 and thrive in warmer temperatures. How is this bad? Thinking we are doing anything but hurt ourselves in all this is just dumb.

Oldseadog
October 2, 2022 10:56 am

Zero emission vehicles.

I thought for a moment that a pedal car would qualify, but no, the human pedalling it would exhale CO2. I guess that would include bicycles as well.

Back to the horse and cart.

No, wait ….. .

Richard Page
Reply to  Oldseadog
October 2, 2022 12:11 pm

No cars, public transport only for the majority of citizens. Of course for high profile events the elites will be allowed a steady stream of limo’s and the great unwashed will be able to gaze in awe from behind a solid security barrier at their betters.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Richard Page
October 2, 2022 5:30 pm

That will not happen in the bulk of America. The Leftist politicians and their lickspittle media enablers cannot hide the coming failures, not on the scale of the destruction of our society, economy and energy systems we can all see coming. The economic impacts will begin to be apparent by the 2024 elections.

That you, Jackie? Let’s Go Brandon: Shake that ghost’s hand. No, the exit is this way.

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  Richard Page
October 3, 2022 9:52 am

Didn’t a US city recently buy electric busses, only to find that they couldn’t hold sufficient charge to complete some routes? So much for public transport, and the folks who plan and run it.

Richard Page
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
October 3, 2022 1:06 pm

Philadelphia’s Proterra ev buses, as posted on WUWT last year, I believe. The heavy battery they used cracked the bus chassis but still wasn’t enough to get them round all of the bus routes.

AGW is Not Science
Reply to  Oldseadog
October 2, 2022 2:52 pm

There are no “zero emissions” vehicles. They ignore all the implicit emissions involved in their manufacture, and the manufacture of replacement batteries.

That should be a good court challenge that can then be used to ban all new vehicles in the state unless they repeal this mass lunacy.

Reply to  AGW is Not Science
October 2, 2022 5:30 pm

AGW
Correct; there are only displaced emission vehicles.
The new cars destined for NY will be “Flintstone Cars”.

Pat from kerbob
Reply to  AGW is Not Science
October 2, 2022 5:44 pm

You forget that they write the rules, they will simply explicitly state that emissions refer only to the operation of the vehicle and don’t apply to manufacturing or to the source of electricity.

Dan Davis
Reply to  AGW is Not Science
October 2, 2022 6:04 pm

There are no “zero emissions” vehicles.

Got that right! A “Light Link Rail” system is being strung out around this area with billions of dollars of taxpayers money.
Massive diesel powered earth moving. Massive Concrete Casting. Always behind schedule and way over cost. And used by few.

Rediculous!

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  AGW is Not Science
October 3, 2022 9:53 am

There are emissions involved in the manufacture of ICEs, and the replacement batteries. Just less.

Cold Comfort
Reply to  Oldseadog
October 3, 2022 5:05 am

The stage may be set for the return of “The Stanley Steamer” (circa 1925) complete with modular micro nuclear boiler. But the alarmists would never allow it.

lee riffee
October 2, 2022 11:09 am

I love the way they word these things – 35% of vehicle sales and then 100% of vehicle sales must be EVs….But no one has considered what will happen when everyone who wants an EV buys one, and those who want gas or diesel powered vehicles buy those instead.
A little over three years from now (2026) will be very interesting from the perspective of car dealers. What happens near the end of 2026 when a bunch of EVs are just sitting there on the lot and meanwhile gas powered cars and trucks are moving off the lots? What does the state (NY AND CA) expect dealers to do with unsold inventory? And in 2035, for those still choosing to live in these states (or unable to afford to leave), what happens when EV car and truck sales plummet as people simply hold onto their ICE cars for much longer times?
Why aren’t car manufacturers and dealers more vocal about this? It was one thing when Coca-Cola came up with “New Coke” and it just sat there on store shelves because no one liked it….but yet another thing when vehicles worth thousands of dollars just sit there on the lot unsold at the end of the model year. That’s going to be a huge loss for manufacturers and dealers.
They (CA and NY gov’ts and car manufacturers and dealers) seem to have a huge amount of faith that people will simply all gravitate to EVs.
Yes, some people are itching to buy them and will do so, but others will not for various and multiple reasons. Especially in the rural parts of both states (and in the city, as was pointed out in the article where charging access could be quite dicey).

markl
Reply to  lee riffee
October 2, 2022 11:48 am

“….bunch of EVs are just sitting there on the lot….” With the batteries depleting and losing charge capacity.

AGW is Not Science
Reply to  markl
October 2, 2022 2:54 pm

Or spontaneously combusting…

John K. Sutherland
Reply to  lee riffee
October 2, 2022 12:50 pm

Car dealerships move just across a state line. No more ICE dealerships in NY.

Steve4192
Reply to  John K. Sutherland
October 3, 2022 4:15 am

… and giant ICE dealerships right across the border that also sell private PO boxes to register your gas guzzler outside of New York. Every new ICE purchase gets a free PO box, just like banks used to do with toasters.

MarkW
Reply to  lee riffee
October 2, 2022 1:18 pm

Like Coke, they honestly thought the consumers would love their new product. After all they have “market research” that proves it.

Steve4192
Reply to  MarkW
October 3, 2022 4:17 am

Man plans, God (the market) laughs. These politicians are going to get a rude awakening in 2026 when new EV sales are still in the single-digits and their 35% target is rendered moot.

AndyHce
Reply to  lee riffee
October 2, 2022 1:56 pm

“just in time” inventory. Order your new car to be delivered in 28 months, if you are lucky.

Of course, if business is slow, the cost per vehicle has to go up sharply because the manufactures can’t make a profit while idle.

Rick C
Reply to  lee riffee
October 2, 2022 3:30 pm

Last I heard, a state cannot restrict commerce in another state. What’s to keep New York residents from buying new ICE vehicles in New Jersey or Connecticut or ordering one online? Will NY try to prevent sales of used ICE vehicles? I see more loop-holes here than in my grandmother’s crocheted afghans.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Rick C
October 2, 2022 5:38 pm

Possibly a system of brokers buying out-of-state new vehicles and selling them as used with the remaining warranty?

Collectively, people are smarter than politicians and bureaucrats, especially Leftist politicians and bureaucrats.

FJB

TonyG
Reply to  Rick C
October 3, 2022 8:01 am

What’s to keep New York residents from buying new ICE vehicles in New Jersey or Connecticut or ordering one online?

My guess is that they will go the route of refusing to register any new ICE vehicles.

JimH in CA
Reply to  lee riffee
October 2, 2022 4:03 pm

Take the unsold ‘new’ cars, drive them a few miles [100 miles] and sell them as used cars with a full warranty.
No new cars sold !!

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  lee riffee
October 3, 2022 5:49 am

Auto manufacturers are used to dealing with stupid regulations. EVs will be sold with huge rebates and 0% financing while the cost of ICEV will rise. You can manipulate demand by changing the characteristics of supply.

Reply to  Trying to Play Nice
October 4, 2022 5:38 am

I don’t think that will be enough because they don’t work in the winter. Moreover eventually the money for the rebates will run out.

RLu
Reply to  lee riffee
October 3, 2022 8:35 am

Take an EV.
Register it in every ZEV jurisdiction, to get the 30%.
Take it to the scrap yard with zero miles.
Build ICE’s for snow country.

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  lee riffee
October 3, 2022 9:56 am

California is prohibiting the sale of new ICE vehicles after 2030. New York is sure to follow.

David Dibbell
October 2, 2022 11:13 am

Roger Caiazza, thank you from rural NY for this update. You are doing excellent work. I was unaware of the mandates beginning in 2026. Maybe it will produce significant pain earlier, for voters to realize how wrong this whole program was from the beginning. We should vote them all out in November, and every year after that. I am particularly concerned for our farmers.

Reply to  David Dibbell
October 2, 2022 4:30 pm

Thank you. I do not think that most New Yorkers are aware of this mandate and others associated with the Climate Act. If they are aware how can they possibly vote to keep the politicians who are pushing this in office? If they don’t catch on now then surely in 2026 they will vote the Progressives out.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Roger Caiazza
October 2, 2022 5:40 pm

Its all about abortion, doan’cha know?

MarkW
Reply to  Dave Fair
October 3, 2022 8:58 am

Of the election ads that I have seen, the only ones talking about abortion have been the Democrats. And then usually to lie about how all Republicans want to completely ban abortion.

Meanwhile Biden still refuses to say whether there are any limits to abortion that he is willing to accept.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  David Dibbell
October 3, 2022 5:53 am

There are quite a few people in NYC who don’t own vehicles so they don’t care about this issue at all. They will still vote for the current regime.

Bob
October 2, 2022 11:19 am

Roger, you are more patient than me. This whole sorry mess could be settled with one requirement. All charging stations must be powered by zero emissions sources, no coal, no oil, no natural gas, no biofuels, no wood chips and because they are so conscientious no nuclear. If the charging stations are not supplied by wind and solar then the vehicles are not zero emissions, end of story. It is bad enough that these people are stupid but I draw the line at lying. They are liars and cheats and I dispise them.

Independent
Reply to  Bob
October 2, 2022 11:25 am

Wind and solar are not “zero-emissions sources” either. In fact, they actually emit more due to all the emissions from making them and backing them up with reliable power sources.

starzmom
Reply to  Independent
October 2, 2022 12:43 pm

What you say is true, but requiring that charging stations be powered by wind and solar is a good way to keep them very limited. And if they are very limited, the initiative/order will not get off the ground. In other words, be careful what you wish for.

Bob
Reply to  Independent
October 2, 2022 1:13 pm

I agree with you but requiring only wind and/or solar would put an end to this madness.

Chaswarnertoo
Reply to  Independent
October 2, 2022 2:08 pm

Battery cars also emit loads of particulates from the brakes and tyres due to their excessive weight.

Reply to  Bob
October 2, 2022 4:32 pm

My preference to kill this crap is to require that wind and solar only get paid for dispatchable power. No energy storage then they don’t get paid. That would destroy the crony capitalist scam overnight.

Bob
Reply to  Roger Caiazza
October 2, 2022 5:43 pm

Anything to stop them lying and deceiving people. I hate liars and I especially hate professional liars.

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  Roger Caiazza
October 3, 2022 10:00 am

Renegotiate all the current contracts for RE suppliers? That is a can of worms.

Chris Nisbet
October 2, 2022 11:19 am

For this to work, won’t New York just have far fewer cars on the roads? If people can’t afford a new EV, they won’t have one. If second hand EVs aren’t any good, people won’t buy them.

If there is a _requirement_ for 35% of all vehicle sales to be ZEV by 2026 (good luck with that), how could you achieve it without placing a limit on the number of ICE vehicles sold? Without a limit, citizens would simply keep buying the type of vehicle they actually wanted.
On a related note, how would they stop people buying their vehicle of choice in some other state? E.g. Will it become illegal to cross state lines in an ICE vehicle? Will it be illegal to buy a car from some other state?

H.R.
Reply to  Chris Nisbet
October 2, 2022 12:30 pm

The answer is ‘Yes’.

Everything, not just cars, everything will be illegal except that which is permitted by the State. (And only if you are on their good side.)

New Yawkers, meet your Glorius Socialist Utopian Future®. Enjoy!

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  H.R.
October 3, 2022 10:01 am

You will own nothing, and be happy.

chris pasqualini
Reply to  Chris Nisbet
October 2, 2022 12:50 pm

They will simply not allow you to register it.

Dave Fair
Reply to  chris pasqualini
October 2, 2022 5:48 pm

So people moving from another state will not be able to register their vehicles? The Feds may have something to say about that: citizens are free to move from state to state. Also, wouldn’t that be a governmental taking?

Out-of-state marriages must be recognized. A legal can of worms; more lawyers’ fees.

Last edited 2 months ago by Charlie Skeptic
MarkW
Reply to  Dave Fair
October 3, 2022 8:59 am

CA has refused to register any car that fails to meet its emission standards for decades.

Steve4192
Reply to  chris pasqualini
October 3, 2022 4:23 am

Then people will register their cars out of state, and New York will lose a ton of tax revenue. I registered my cars to a PO box in Ohio for years because Ohio charges a flat fee for registering your car while Kentucky (where I lived at the time) charges a property tax based on the value of the car.

MarkW
Reply to  Chris Nisbet
October 2, 2022 1:24 pm

What’s going to happen is similar to what happens when they increase the mileage requirements for cars. Since the people don’t want electrics and they do want ICE vehicles, they will be forced to reduce the price of electrics and increase the price of ICE vehicles until they the sales volumes reach the magic number mandated by the state.

The poor will be stuck with cheap, stripped down electrics, while the rich will still be driving vehicles that work.

Reply to  Chris Nisbet
October 2, 2022 4:34 pm

I agree with everything you said. I expect NY, CA, and all the other states that go along with this incentive will look like Cuba with only old cars on the road. Seriously, how will they stop me from going to another state to buy a car?

Dave Fair
Reply to  Roger Caiazza
October 2, 2022 6:17 pm

Let it be written, let it be done.

They will be long gone before the fit hits the shan.

Last edited 2 months ago by Charlie Skeptic
MarkW
Reply to  Roger Caiazza
October 2, 2022 6:19 pm

In CA, they have regulations that require a car to meet CA emission standards, before it can be registered. The courts have permitted these regulations to stand for decades.
If they were to pass a new regulation that only electric cars can be registered, it would probably stand judicial review.

Last edited 2 months ago by MarkW
Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  MarkW
October 3, 2022 10:03 am

You are also required to register your car in California within 10 days of moving here. And if you live here, you must register your car here.

Oldseadog
Reply to  Roger Caiazza
October 3, 2022 9:42 am

But in Cuba they don’t have cold weather so no salt on the roads to make the cars go rusty so they last a long time.

October 2, 2022 11:26 am

Can the Governor actually mandate regulations? That is a legislative function.

MarkW
Reply to  David Wojick
October 2, 2022 1:26 pm

Anything is legal, so long as you can find a judge that can be paid to rule your way.

Reply to  David Wojick
October 2, 2022 4:35 pm

I think that is a grey area that would need someone to sue.

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  David Wojick
October 3, 2022 10:04 am

I’d like to introduce you to Gavin Newsom. Or, for that matter, Joe Biden.

Neo
October 2, 2022 11:29 am

Plug-In Fiasco: Video Shows Electric Hummer Needs *4 Days* to Fully Charge with Wall Outlet

Neo
Reply to  Neo
October 2, 2022 11:31 am

saveenergy
Reply to  Neo
October 2, 2022 12:51 pm

And once it’s fully charged …
you can do about 250 miles in an entry-level Hummer EV & the most expensive versions can do around 350 miles … wow

I can refuel my ICE truck in 3mins for a 420 mile range.
Love the way technology is advancing in reverse

AGW is Not Science
Reply to  saveenergy
October 2, 2022 3:01 pm

Not to mention those 250/530 mile “ranges” are pure fantasy. Everyone CONSIDERING buying a bev should FOIA request the conditions assumed to come up with the supposed “range.”

You can start by multiplying the supposed “range” by 80%, since they recommend you don’t charge the battery to 100%, which of course the use for the “range” calculation.

Dave Fair
Reply to  AGW is Not Science
October 2, 2022 6:18 pm

Don’t forget the 20% on the low side limit.

MarkW
Reply to  AGW is Not Science
October 2, 2022 6:23 pm

If it’s hot or cold, the amount of energy that you can get out of the battery will decrease. In addition, having to run the A/C or the heater is also going to cut your effective range.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  MarkW
October 3, 2022 5:58 am

Loading up the vehicle or towing a trailer reduce your range by 50% or more. You can’t get as far with five 200 lb people in an EV as you can with one 150 lb person.

Tom.1
October 2, 2022 11:34 am

I guess EV owners in FL are being familiarized right now with one of the shortcomings of EVs. No electricity, no go.

Richard Page
Reply to  Tom.1
October 2, 2022 12:21 pm

Currently I believe that of over 11million Floridians, fewer than 785,000 are experiencing power outages. 4 or so power companies have been badly hit, a couple of others less badly but, luckily, the outages seem to be confined to a relatively small geographical area; obviously not so lucky if you are in those areas but for Florida as a whole. It could have been far, far worse and just thank God it wasn’t.

AGW is Not Science
Reply to  Tom.1
October 2, 2022 5:15 pm

Drive through deep water, short the batteries, and you have your choice – burn or drown.

H.R.
Reply to  AGW is Not Science
October 2, 2022 9:06 pm

Nahhh… If you stay inside and the water is deep enough, you just get parboiled.

Smart Rock
October 2, 2022 11:45 am

Actually enforcing these rules will be a massive problem unless they double down and start making it a felony to buy an ICE vehicle, or to import one from another jurisdiction.

Of course, Kathy will be gone by then and it will be someone else’s problem.

R Taylor
October 2, 2022 11:49 am

Welcome to New Havana City.

Richard Page
Reply to  R Taylor
October 2, 2022 12:24 pm

I was about to suggest; ‘Pyongyang-on-the-Hudson’.

Beta Blocker
October 2, 2022 11:50 am

The actual but unstated goal is to eventually move everyone out of personal cars and into public transportation — buses, trains, EV taxis, etc.

For myself, I’ve got a fourteen-year old made-in-America, bought new Mazda 6 — a car which is highly reliable and which absolutely refuses to wear out. It will be the last car I ever own.

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Beta Blocker
October 2, 2022 5:12 pm

I have two cars, both diesel, in different countries. A Toyota and a Volvo. Both are over 10 years old, and both drive like brand new. I’m hoping never to buy another car, because I’m expecting at least another 10 years from both. The bodywork and interior are a bit rough, but engines are pristine.

Olen
October 2, 2022 12:44 pm

No consideration of consequences is a result of no concern for reelection. All integrity goes out the window with fraud.

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  Olen
October 3, 2022 10:07 am

And a single-party state with an electorate that can be bought off with free stuff.

fret
October 2, 2022 12:51 pm

There is no climate problem let alone a crisis

Don Quixote tilted at windmills, as should we

MarkW
October 2, 2022 1:03 pm

The whole point of virtue signaling is that as long as someone else is suffering the consequences, they don’t matter.

michael hart
October 2, 2022 1:12 pm

I note the emphasis on (new) cars SOLD. Then what happens if someone just goes over the border and buys their car in Joysey or Pennsylvania instead? Good news for surrounding states. Interstate commerce usually trumps everything else in the legal system, not so?

lee riffee
Reply to  michael hart
October 2, 2022 2:44 pm

The only way they might accomplish that (sort of) is by not letting residents register non-EV cars after the 2035 date. However, more than a few residents can easily go visit their mom, their aunt, uncle, sibling, friend, etc, who lives in a state where common sense prevails. And while they are there, purchase and register a car or truck of their choice using mom or dad’s address! Then they drive on back home and continue to live their lives. And if the state in which they are registered has emissions test requirements, inspections, etc, they just plan on a trip back to see the folks and get that done.
I know all about that because I did just that when I lived in CA for 5 years. My reason was that in order to register my car when I moved there I would be charged $500 over and above the registration cost. Well, back in those days I didn’t have much money, and only moved to CA (for a job) with little more than the shirt on my back – and my old car – and I could not afford it. I thought that was outrageous then and still do – ripping people off for having the audacity to move to CA from another state….So I kept my car registered at my parents house on the east coast. I laid low and drove close to the speed limit and never had any problems.

lee riffee
Reply to  lee riffee
October 2, 2022 2:45 pm

And I would add that I can’t imagine I am the only person who has done such a thing! There were always more than a few out of state plates on the roads when I lived in CA.

Dave Fair
Reply to  lee riffee
October 2, 2022 6:22 pm

Every other car in Las Vegas has an out-of-state tag.

October 2, 2022 1:46 pm

In 2026 the State will require 35% of all new vehicle sales to be zero-emission vehicles. 

stop selling new cars in newyork. sell only factory certified used cars in new york.

new car dealerships crop up across state lines.

buy new cars out of state, have it shipped to newyork.


this is great for the mafia.

Richard Page
Reply to  Steven M Mosher
October 2, 2022 2:20 pm

The new prohibition era?

Reply to  Richard Page
October 2, 2022 6:29 pm

think of all the opportunity this creates.

take your car dealership
outfit it with 65% used cars and 35% electtric new cars.

Joseph Zorzin
October 2, 2022 1:46 pm

Massachusetts is just as bad or worse with its own net zero law.

October 2, 2022 1:51 pm

require all government vehicles to go ev first.

lee riffee
Reply to  Steven M Mosher
October 2, 2022 2:45 pm

Including the “Beast” and Airforce One and Two….

Reply to  lee riffee
October 2, 2022 6:29 pm

all epa employees.

H.R.
Reply to  Steven M Mosher
October 2, 2022 9:17 pm

Ah, yes. Good suggestion, but you forgot to throw in the Department of Transportation.

Reply to  Steven M Mosher
October 2, 2022 4:38 pm

There is some sort of a mandate or target for that. Notably it has been revised since it first came out to exempt first responder vehicles.

H.R.
Reply to  Roger Caiazza
October 2, 2022 9:18 pm

Hmmm… and the Governor is exempt, too?

Doonman
October 2, 2022 2:27 pm

What I want to know is when CO2 levels worldwide will start to drop. Nothing done so far has accomplished this and we’ve been at it for a long time. The USA has already reduced emissions a reported 26% from 1990 levels and we are not the only country limiting them. Since atmospheric levels show nothing has been accomplished and in fact just the opposite, why does anyone think doing more will work?

It’s a valid question for setting policy. No one asks it and no one questions why they don’t.

Last edited 2 months ago by doonman
Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  Doonman
October 3, 2022 10:10 am

Doubling-down is the standard reaction by ignorant folk when plans don’t work out.

John the Econ
October 2, 2022 3:31 pm

Look up the upsides: Less traffic from the lesser affluent on the roadways, and lower insurance rates due to fewer accidents. Progressivism has never been kind to the non-affluent. Sorry, it’s crappy mass transit for you.

Pat from kerbob
Reply to  John the Econ
October 2, 2022 5:07 pm

At least they aren’t openly calling for a eugenics cull of the deplorables like they used to, at least not out loud and in public, tho they do slip the mask occasionally.

TonyG
Reply to  Pat from kerbob
October 3, 2022 8:15 am

Pat, I would say they found a way to accomplish that goal without having to explicitly state it. Not only that, but they’ve got many of their targets to go along with pushing for it.

Doug Proctor
October 2, 2022 3:50 pm

IMHO all the technical arguments for and against evs, as much as I disagree with the premise of more evs is better, is a misdirection by politicians: tge Green activists are not for people having evs, they are for fewer having persinal vehicles at all.

The push is not to translate a fossil fuel energy economy into an electical/Green one, but to chop our consumption of both materiel and energy to its knees. Keep people at home in a city with public transport or walking. Rent vehicles or Uber. Stop flying by the public, purchases that require transportation from source to consumer. Only then will their true goals be reached: significantly reduce humanity’s footprint in the world.

In this future the rich will travel, the rest will see things by VR and AI. Houses will be small and stacked for efficiency. Goods will be expensive and less due to cost and space. Fewer children, more individuals in apartments near restaurants and services like in European cities. In this manner will CO2 production be less, but more importantly, only as a part of the drive to make the future “sustainable”.

Abolition of gas cars for evs few can afford to maintain, let alone purchase, is just the visible tip of the Green goal.

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  Doug Proctor
October 3, 2022 10:15 am

“Houses will be small and stacked for efficiency.” What about the existing housing stock?

California has passed a law, or maybe it’s only an executive oreder or regulation, that we all have refurb our homes to be all-electric. First, many of us would have to upgrade our service (ka-ching). Second, they have suggested heat-pump hot water heaters. Not so great if you live on the 8th floor of an apartment house, or live where the winters are cold. Third, where will all that extra electricity come from?

This is appalling to an engineer.

Tgasloli
October 2, 2022 3:56 pm

If NYers want to freeze & starve in the dark a la the 14th Century, let them. More 21th century for the rest of us. Besides it will be fun to watch the NY stock exchange go back to the abacus.

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  Tgasloli
October 3, 2022 10:16 am

Most of the brokerage houses have moved their back room out of the City, many to New Jersey.

Terry
October 2, 2022 4:05 pm

Will be interesting as there are zero Zero Emissions Vehicles being built currently..

Gregg Eshelman
October 2, 2022 11:00 pm

When is the NetZero internet company going to sue all these people for trademark infringement? The World Wildlife Fund successfully sued the World Wrestling Federation over the use of the letters WWF, forcing the wrestling outfit to change its name to World Wrestling Entertainment.

With that incredibly ridiculous lawsuit success, NetZero ought to be able to sue to claim exclusive rights to the term, despite others using it for something totally different like WWF vs WWF.

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  Gregg Eshelman
October 3, 2022 10:17 am

Really hard to sue the Government.

Richard Page
Reply to  Gregg Eshelman
October 3, 2022 6:15 pm

Not sure they’d bother really – it’s a company name, not a term to them and, besides, think of the free publicity and how many times it’s going to turn up in searches?

Captain climate
October 3, 2022 5:05 am

My own state of Massachusetts will likely try to mimic this lunacy unless there is a big upset in November.

MarkW
Reply to  Captain climate
October 3, 2022 9:04 am

There may be a big upset in November, but not in MA. Once Democrats get full control of government, they first change the rules to ensure that they can’t lose in the future.

Steven Pfeiffer
Reply to  Captain climate
October 3, 2022 5:47 pm

I’m pretty certain that we already did – I believe that we had a law on the books that an EV-only mandate would take effect in mA, triggered by whenever California put an EV mandate into law.

October 3, 2022 5:34 am

they will indeed have zero emissions and sooner than they think because in less than 20 years NO ONE BUT THE CRIMINALS WILL BE ABLE TO LIVE IN NYC!!!!!

Richard Page
Reply to  rumrum
October 3, 2022 6:16 pm

I think I saw a documentary about that – it might have had Kurt Russell in it.

TonyG
October 3, 2022 7:42 am

IIRC California has the same timeline. Given the limitations on battery production, can car manufacturers even meet the required numbers just for these two states alone by 2035?

Slowroll
October 3, 2022 9:51 am

Simple question for NY warmunists: does one who lives on the 35th floor of a high-rise drop an extension cord out of the window to charge the car?

Steven Pfeiffer
October 3, 2022 5:39 pm

I’m sure that the New York State officials have carefully taken into account the impact of EV’s on the electrical grid in NY. /SARC

Where it could get interesting is the peak demand with fast chargers, because a lot of them will be needed even with many people charging at low levels overnight or at work.

Let’s say a typical “Quick Mart” has 16 gas pumps. Each gas pump now has a fractional HP pump, maybe a load of 500 Watts per pump. So maybe 8 kW total peak demand.

Replace those (or add) today’s “fast” chargers, say 16 of those at a nominal 250 kW (that may be on the low end, Tesla’s may be 350 kW).

16 x 250 = 4,000 kW or 4 MW of connected load. So suddenly every suburban or rural Quick Mart has an electric load (design peak demand) equal to a paper mill, auto assembly plant, or a medium size college campus.

And if I’m doing my math correctly, a 250 kW charger (with 15% loss) adds a net of about 3.5 kWh per minute to the EV battery, so it will be adding about 12-14 miles range per minute of actual charge time.

Compare that to my sedan, where I can add over 300 miles of range in about two minutes of actual full time, or 150 miles per minute.

Either electric or gas cars will have similar time requirements to pull in, park, initiate the process with a payment method, etc. So the actual “fill time” is what is important.

Most EV proponents assume the in the future, new batteries and chargers will be developed that will make EV charging “as convenient” as filling the tank of an IC engine vehicle.

If that ever becomes reality then the impact on the grid will be monumental – based on simple calculations, the supercharger load will be about 4 megawatts per charger – that is 4 MW for ONE charger supplying ONE car, to be able to match the miles added per unit of time attainable with a conventional IC engine car.

Richard Page
Reply to  Steven Pfeiffer
October 3, 2022 6:20 pm

Don’t add – I don’t think you want to add EV fast chargers to a petrol station forecourt. I think it would probably not be a good mix; they’d either find new locations or replace the petrol pumps completely.

Reply to  Steven Pfeiffer
October 4, 2022 5:45 am

Great numbers!

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