The Atlantic: “What is the Real Goal here – Stopping Climate Change or Abolishing Capitalism?”

Essay by Eric Worrall

The Atlantic arguing that progressives are inhibiting the green transition by putting more effort into fighting corporations than helping them build green infrastructure.

What Many Progressives Misunderstand About Fighting Climate Change

Wishful thinking hampers the clean-energy revolution.

By Alec Stapp
SEPTEMBER 25, 2022, 6:30 AM ET

About the author: Alec Stapp is a co-founder of the Institute for Progress.

The good news is that, with reasonable reforms, the energy transition is fully within reach. Private investment in clean-energy technology is skyrocketing, and even Big Oil is starting to realize there is no future in fossil fuels.

But this may not be enough for some environmentalists. Jamie Henn, an environmental activist and the director of Fossil Free Media, recently told Rolling Stone, “Look, I want to get carbon out of the atmosphere, but this is such an opportunity to remake our society. But if we just perpetuate the same harms in a clean-energy economy, and it’s just a world of Exxons and Elon Musks—oh, man, what a nightmare.” Many progressive commentators similarly believe that countering climate change requires a fundamental reordering of the West’s political and economic systems. “The level of disruption required to keep us at a temperature anywhere below ‘absolutely catastrophic’ is fundamentally, on a deep structural level, incompatible with the status quo,” the writer Phil McDuff has argued. The climate crisis, the Green New Deal advocate Naomi Klein has insisted, “could be the best argument progressives have ever had” to roll back corporate influence, tear up free-trade deals, and reinvest in public services and infrastructure.

Such comments raise a question: What is the real goal here—stopping climate change or abolishing capitalism? Taking climate change seriously as a global emergency requires an all-hands-on-deck attitude and a recognition that technological solutions (yes, often built and deployed by private firms) can deliver real progress on decarbonization before the proletariat has seized the means of production. A massive infusion of private investment, made not for charity but in the anticipation of future profits, is precisely what’s needed to accelerate the clean-energy transition—which, like all revolutions, will yield unpredictable results.

Read more: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/09/capitalism-clean-energy-technology-permitting/671545/

Author Alec Stapp is co-founder of The Institute for Progress, which appears to be a pro-Biden big academia front.

The author goes on to argue that paving hundreds of thousands of square miles with solar panels requires relaxing environmental laws which allow people to object to such developments. The author also says nice things about nuclear power.

I give this piece half marks. While it is unusually rational for an Atlantic climate article, the author still misses or glosses over some important points, such as the sheer scale of effort required to transform the energy system.

For an idea of scale, our Willis ran the calculations in 2021. Willis explained in Bright Green Impossibilities, to hit Net Zero by 2050 the USA would need to add a little over 2GW of 24×7 zero carbon generation capacity every day. Think of this as a brand new nuclear reactor commissioned every day until 2050, to replace the 22 terawatts of average power capacity / 193 Petawatt hours of energy per year provided by fossil fuel.

Even using nuclear reactors this is a wildly implausible target. When you translate this magnitude of nuclear capacity build to solar panels or wind turbines, bearing in mind nuclear power runs 24×7, and wind and solar most definitely do not, the numbers soar into absurdity.

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Fred
September 26, 2022 6:05 am

Abolishing Capitalism of course…ask Klaus S. and George S., they’re practically admitting it…not that they will give up their billions of course.

Mac
Reply to  Fred
September 26, 2022 9:41 am

The Atlantic is owned by Steve Jobs widow. Of course his and now her billions were earned by capitalism. She is a real progressive as are many who made their fortunes here in the US. I certainly don’t understand their thinking.

MarkW
Reply to  Mac
September 26, 2022 10:07 am

There are two main groups of socialists.
The first group wants free stuff.
The second group is so convinced of their own superiority that they are willing to use the first group in order to acquire the power to make their visions of society a reality.

Derg
Reply to  Mac
September 26, 2022 10:43 am

Protect their wealth.

Fraizer
Reply to  Mac
September 26, 2022 4:59 pm

They don’t just pull the ladder up behind them, they smash it into kindling and burn it.

Robert of Ottawa
Reply to  Fred
September 26, 2022 10:19 am

In the future, when you will own nothing and be happy, a few people will own everything and be very happy.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
September 27, 2022 7:37 pm

You misspelled “everyone”.

michel
Reply to  Fred
September 26, 2022 11:06 am

No, its not abolishing capitalism. This leaves out the most important aspect of it.

Its abolishing capitalism IN THE USA. Capitalism is fine in China, India etc. The focus on its abolition is exclusively about abolishing it in the USA.

AndyHce
Reply to  michel
September 26, 2022 2:05 pm

and other white western nations

Bruce
Reply to  AndyHce
September 26, 2022 6:19 pm

Not all the western nations are white. And every day brings the non-white population closer to being the majority in virtually every western nation. No judgement, just an observation.

Dave Andrews
Reply to  Bruce
September 27, 2022 7:40 am

The UN projects that world population will be 10.9 billion by 2100. Currently Africa is the fastest growing continent and its share of population will rise from 17% to 40%. More than 8 in 10 people in 2100 will live in Africa and Asia. Predominance will move from the west to those continents.

michel
Reply to  AndyHce
September 26, 2022 11:50 pm

It is wider than the US, that is true. But climate mania seems to be confined to the English speaking nations plus Germany. There doesn’t seem to be any great drive to get to Net Zero in France, Italy, the former Soviet bloc, Spain. Nor for that matter in Japan or Korea.

And within the English speaking countries, its confined to a fairly small group of activists and the political establishment. We saw this in the UK just recently – the explicit and strongly critical comments by the General Secretary of the GMB, one of the biggest UK unions, who in summary denounced the Net Zero plans as middle class feel goodery and financial looting by the professional classes.

There is a very odd social phenomenon underlying this. Its visible in the UK on both climate, gender and race. A small group of activists makes claims which are factually absurd and also argues that any criticism of them are violent and phobic against some beleaguered minority. This is then, and this is the odd phenomenon, taken up by politicians, media, corporate HR departments, and even the police who intervene against people publicly making perfectly legal but politically incorrect statements.

There is an important and very odd phenomenon here, and its not just to do with the climate or gender manias, it has to do with this sudden increase in the ability of activists to dominate social discourse and to produce a wave of institutional intolerance to any debate on policy changes they advocate. Changes which have large impacts on society as a whole, like Net Zero or the replacement in a legal context of the concept of sex with that of self declared gender.

How has this happened, why has it happened, what are the consequences, and where is it going? That is the thing to think hard about. Not least because the next manifestation may be on some lunatic idea much darker than the ones that have featured so far.

What we are seeing is the power of the mob to set agendas throughout society by controlling institutions. Worry about what the next agenda may be.

Gene
Reply to  Fred
September 26, 2022 5:44 pm

Just read what Christiana Figueres, Executive Secretary of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) stated on what the climate theory leads the UN to propose… ending Capita
in 2015 Investor’s Business Daily ran Figueres’ blunt statement of intent:

At a news conference last week in Brussels, Christiana Figueres, executive secretary of U.N.’s Framework Convention on Climate Change, admitted that the goal of environmental activists is not to save the world from ecological calamity but to destroy capitalism.

Michael S. Kelly
Reply to  Gene
September 26, 2022 8:20 pm

Do you have a date for this, or a link? It would be invaluable.

Quill
Reply to  Michael S. Kelly
September 27, 2022 12:56 pm

The original was scrubbed from the UN website

huls
Reply to  Fred
September 27, 2022 2:48 am

Ottmar Edenhoffer, IPCC official:

When we are discussing the need to limit climate change by limiting the emission of greenhouse gasses, we are, inescapably, talking altering the economic value of natural resources, and thus, altering the world’s distribution of wealth.

They are openly admitting what their true motivations are. There is no conspiracy. There is only slow war against humanity

John Garrett
September 26, 2022 6:12 am

The stupid…

it burns.

John Garrett
September 26, 2022 6:14 am

The average IQ of the people in the photograph is roughly 32.

God help us.

stinkerp
Reply to  John Garrett
September 26, 2022 7:04 am

The IQ of author of The Atlantic piece isn’t much higher.

even Big Oil is starting to realize there is no future in fossil fuels

Yeah, right. That’s why they’ve stopped investing in extracting the resource that 94% of all transportation uses (6% uses biofuels, less than 1% uses electricity including public transit trains). Oh, wait. No they haven’t.

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/use-of-energy/transportation.php

Last edited 2 months ago by stinkerp
Scissor
Reply to  John Garrett
September 26, 2022 7:20 am

AOC supporters. She’s twice as intelligent.

paul courtney
Reply to  Scissor
September 26, 2022 8:46 am

Mr. Scissor: I’m not great at math, but twice net zero is still zero, so, yes, AOC twice as intelligent. Precisely.

David Kamakaris
Reply to  John Garrett
September 26, 2022 7:53 am

John, I’m thinking the combined IQ is roughly 32.

Redge
Reply to  David Kamakaris
September 26, 2022 10:31 am

I’m thinking you could combine the IQ and still not have the brain power of a single amoeba.

mark from the midwest
Reply to  John Garrett
September 26, 2022 8:43 am

How do you measure an IQ that low? It would almost require the individual to be in a vegetative state. Oh wait, I think I just answered my own question.

Rick C
Reply to  mark from the midwest
September 26, 2022 9:56 am

“How do you measure an IQ that low?”

They have a sign that says: “Cars can run on salt water”.

PCman999
Reply to  Rick C
September 26, 2022 12:02 pm

You would need ALOT of salt water – and comfortable running your car on nuclear power from the uranium filtered out from the sea water.

Richard Page
Reply to  Rick C
September 26, 2022 12:38 pm

Cars can float on salt water, if you seal them really, really well, but ‘run’ no.

MarkW
Reply to  Richard Page
September 26, 2022 3:37 pm

The Basilisk lizard can run on water.

Richard Page
Reply to  MarkW
September 26, 2022 4:00 pm

The common Basilisk Lizard, aka the Jesus Lizard has legs, cars do not. Fit a car with working legs and I’ll reconsider, if it works!

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  John Garrett
September 26, 2022 9:32 am

Oh, come now, it’s 42.

Gregg Eshelman
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
September 26, 2022 10:09 am

Of course! They have the answer to the wrong question.

Independent
Reply to  John Garrett
September 26, 2022 10:38 am

You’re very generous with your estimation.

observa
September 26, 2022 6:24 am

The good news is that, with reasonable reforms, the energy transition is fully within reach.

In your dreams boyoh-
‘Hilarious’: Radio host schools climate activist | Sky News Australia
They can’t afford their touchscreens and mummy and daddy aren’t paying and they’ll be just another Putin’s army. You didn’t sell them sacrifice but instead it was all down to Biz and Gummint to take care of it with dirt cheap energy from Gaia.

Scissor
Reply to  observa
September 26, 2022 7:27 am
Spetzer86
Reply to  Scissor
September 26, 2022 8:20 am

Choice! It’s funny when Izzy said her going to Fiji for non-critical reasons was “ironic” instead of the more appropriate “hypocritical”.

Scissor
Reply to  Spetzer86
September 26, 2022 9:02 am

At the very least, she’s somewhat open and honest and not belligerent like the Greta. There is hope for her.

MarkW
Reply to  Scissor
September 26, 2022 9:34 am

She’s capable of being embarrassed about her hypocrisy. Unlike the leaders of the global warming scam.

Paul Johnson
September 26, 2022 6:26 am

Progressives have always seen Climate Change as an excuse to take over the world economy. At least the Atlantic is starting to realize that.

Joe Crawford
Reply to  Paul Johnson
September 26, 2022 8:10 am

Don’t you have that a bit wrong? Progressives invented Global Warming/Climate Change in order to take over the world economy.

Last edited 2 months ago by Joe Crawford
MarkW
Reply to  Paul Johnson
September 26, 2022 8:17 am

Progressives view everything as an excuse to take over the world economy.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  MarkW
September 26, 2022 8:49 am

I think that the unstated assumption made by these progressive protesters is that, after the revolution, they will be controlling the socialist governments and all the former capitalists will be the down-trodden workers. They are basically demonstrating just how out of touch with reality they are, and how inflated their self-importance is after a lifetime of participation trophies.

Last edited 2 months ago by Clyde Spencer
Slowroll
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
September 26, 2022 10:00 am

What they don’t realize, because they don’t study history, is that the political lefty leaders never want true believers in their power circle. The true believers are the first against the wall.

Derg
Reply to  Slowroll
September 26, 2022 10:46 am

This ^

mikee
Reply to  MarkW
September 26, 2022 7:19 pm

Progressives = Marxism – Not for me but for thee!!

Sean Galbally
September 26, 2022 6:32 am

Everybody is tinkering at the edges. Carbon dioxide is a good gas. Man-made atmospheric CO2 compromises 0.04% of green house gases and has an insignificant effect on climate. We need to use our plentiful fossil fuels for now, albeit with clean emissions, while we develop sustainable and economic alternatives. There is no immediate hurry as there is no climate crisis. The climate has always changed and always will. There is no unusual trend at present. Net Zero achieves nothing but poverty.

Scissor
Reply to  Sean Galbally
September 26, 2022 7:30 am

Sure, carbon dioxide is the basic building block of all life, but to put it in perspective, it makes beer what it is.

TonyG
Reply to  Scissor
September 26, 2022 8:53 am

I wonder how much CO2 is released by all the craft beer they drink. Put a carbon tax on beer and wait for the screaming to start 🙂

Scissor
Reply to  TonyG
September 26, 2022 9:08 am

That would literally piss some people off. Of course in a socialist utopia, there would be only one brand of beer, if any at all.

At one time I had heard that China’s Snow beer was the best selling brand in the world. God awful stuff it is.

John Hultquist
Reply to  TonyG
September 26, 2022 1:47 pm

My understanding is that commercial beer is produced “flat”, so all the CO2 produced in the process is released. Then “purchased” CO2 is injected prior to bottling. The image we grew up with of brewing beer seems to be as outdated as “chopping” down trees with an ax.
I am shocked!

TonyG
Reply to  John Hultquist
September 26, 2022 2:45 pm

You’re generally right, John, but there are some breweries that “bottle condition”, which is where they don’t pasteurize so there is still some live yeast, and that produces the carbonation. They are definitely a very small minority though.

PCman999
Reply to  TonyG
September 26, 2022 3:00 pm

We should get lucrative carbon credits for every beer 🍻 we drink, after all, we’re making a big sacrifice to save the environment!😇

TonyG
Reply to  PCman999
September 27, 2022 6:51 am

There you go – we can sell carbon credits for each beer we drink!

Jtom
Reply to  TonyG
September 26, 2022 10:39 pm

No, not a tax on beer. The wrong group would be screaming. Put a tax on Starbucks products for the carbon dioxide they produce transporting coffee and tea.

Slowroll
Reply to  Scissor
September 26, 2022 10:02 am

I believe it was Ben Franklin who said “beer is proof that God wants man to be happy.”

PCman999
Reply to  Slowroll
September 26, 2022 3:01 pm

Wine is a sacrament!

jack
Reply to  Sean Galbally
September 26, 2022 9:44 am

“Man-made atmospheric CO2 compromises 0.04%”
nope, does not, not even close
before all this supposed man-made stuff began atmospheric CO2 was around 280ppm, so, if anything, 420-280 = 140ppm (.014%) could potentially be attributed, but, not all of it!

Last edited 2 months ago by jack
Robert of Ottawa
Reply to  Sean Galbally
September 26, 2022 10:40 am

That’s why it’s “ZERO”

PCman999
Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
September 26, 2022 3:02 pm

0.0!

Zero point zero!

Can someone post the requisite Animal House meme?🍻

RevJay4
September 26, 2022 6:34 am

The leftist media seem to be vying for being chosen as the replacement for MAD magazine. None of their articles seem to make any sense. If they weren’t pushing the laughable positions on “climate…whatever”, I would be laughing at their published crap.
Right now, I chuckle at their hypocrisy and wait for the punchline where they divest themselves of all the benefits of the evil, “capitalism”. Oh, and the concurrent evil of products derived from “fossil fuels”. Like that will ever happen.
Time to drive a stake through the heart of the “climate…whatever” and be done with it.

HotScot
Reply to  RevJay4
September 26, 2022 6:53 am

Laughably, there’s nothing to stop someone living as a socialist in a capitalist society. It just means sharing everything one has out amongst friends and neighbours.

Strange they don’t do it………

Reply to  HotScot
September 26, 2022 8:44 am

There’s an inherent irony in modern socialism. The appeal of socialism is this idea that you get to tell everyone else how to live. The problem is that everybody wants to be in charge of telling everybody else how to live.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  HotScot
September 26, 2022 8:52 am

Sharing according to need.

Bruce Cobb
September 26, 2022 6:38 am

They talk of “the energy transition” as if it is a fait accompli, with the assumption being that it is both “progress” and will “save the planet”. Lies built upon lies.

Linda Goodman
September 26, 2022 6:48 am

What’s the point of partial truths? C02 caused climate change is a fraud perpetrated by tyrants and their useful idiots to destroy capitalism, enslave humanity and depopulate the Earth. Period.

Steve Case
Reply to  Linda Goodman
September 26, 2022 7:06 am

Climate change is a fraud perpetrated … to destroy capitalism, enslave humanity and depopulate the Earth.
_________________________________

That’s what the Duck Test says.

Phil
September 26, 2022 6:49 am

Fossil Free Media, recently told Rolling Stone, “Look, I want to get carbon out of the atmosphere, 

Well that will kill every green thing on the plant. The ignorance is staggering.

william Johnston
Reply to  Phil
September 26, 2022 7:27 am

When they conflate CO2 with carbon, I immediately discount anything that follows.

Nick Graves
Reply to  william Johnston
September 27, 2022 12:33 am

Ditto “nitrogen”.

lee riffee
Reply to  Phil
September 26, 2022 7:42 am

“Fossil free Media”….that’s really rich! So what do they do, broadcast from a mud hut somewhere in the woods using only solar and wind power? And how would one go about procuring a computer or phone that isn’t made with fossil fuel derivatives? Not only that, you will end up using a network of cell towers or satellites to broadcast your content. All made (and made possible) with fossil fuels….

jeffery P
Reply to  lee riffee
September 26, 2022 8:37 am

Smoke signals by day, signal fires by night.

Old Man Winter
Reply to  Phil
September 26, 2022 9:10 am

Step 1) “ kill every green thing

Step 2)

U0Cb.jpg
Steve Case
Reply to  Old Man Winter
September 26, 2022 1:58 pm

Some rewording seems to be appropriate:

     You are the
  “Carbon” they
Want to get rid of.

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  Phil
September 26, 2022 9:36 am

No, they really meant carbon.

jeffery P
September 26, 2022 6:58 am

The Great Reset is the goal and you just have to laugh or cry.

Capitalism performs much better on almost every measure such as reducing poverty, ensuring food security, medical outcomes and especially environmental issues.

Socialism is better at income equity because it tends to reduce the standard of living for everyone. People are more equally miserable under Socialism. Except the elites, of course. They get to remain elite as long as they play ball.

The preferred flavor of Socialism is Fascism. Fascism appears to be a form of Capitalism but it’s not. Under Fascism the state doesn’t own means of production, farms or homes. Instead the state controls everything. People get to keep “ownership” provided they comply.

The Progs don’t know they are Fascists yet Fascism is the best description for the economic and political policies they advocate. Again, you have to laugh or you’ll cry.

Reply to  jeffery P
September 26, 2022 7:35 am

What the Left does not realize is that in almost every issue, Conservatives and Progressives have the same end goal. Whether it be increasing the situation for the urban poor in each of our countries or relieving the poverty in undeveloped countries, the difference is the MEANS to achieve those ends.

For the subject of “Globalism” we all want a world without abject poverty. The Left applies their new favorite term “equity” to assure everyone is equally “well off” by redistributing the fixed contents of the pot. Many of us look to schemes that increase the size of the pot.

History shows the redistribution model has never worked; while a free market model has raised nations like South Korea, or Japan after WWII.

Even if the alarmism of the IPCC were close to correct, the world would be much better off under the latter model:

  • fossil energy is vital to a growing economy
  • developed economies have a negative birth rate (so there, Dr Erhlich)
  • innovations come from nations who do not have to worry about economic survival (e.g. adaptation to “Climate Change” if it were to occur)

But it is much more comfortable and virtuous to paint your political opponents as evil and uncaring.

mkelly
Reply to  George Daddis
September 26, 2022 7:49 am

George progressives, by whatever name you wish to use, are evil and uncaring.

Mao didn’t care, Pol Pot didn’t care, Stalin didn’t care, Hitler didn’t care, and their actions were evil.

There is no way to surgery coat this. If progressives succeed we will be poorer and my grandchildren will have shorter unhappy lives.

jeffery P
Reply to  George Daddis
September 26, 2022 8:45 am

I don’t believe conservatives and progressives share the same goals.

Not too long ago, conservatives and liberals shared the same values. No longer. First of all, liberalism is dead. The progressives assimilated liberals. Second, progressives don’t value truth, honesty, free expression or individual rights. They believe in “the truth” and no lie is out of bounds if it serves the cause. Speech must be controlled as free speech means free thinking. Individual rights are dismissed as racist, sexist, etc., etc. because the needs of the collective must be primary.

Mac
Reply to  jeffery P
September 26, 2022 9:55 am

In a very liberal neighborhood in the valley of Albuquerque New Mexico people have yard signs that state
NO HUMAN IS ILLEGAL
BLACK LIVES MATTER
SCIENCE IS REAL
LOVE IS LOVE
WATER IS LIFE
Some have even more idiotic statements.
I would be embarrassed to have that sign in my front yard.

Richard Page
Reply to  Mac
September 26, 2022 12:45 pm

It occurs to me that you could have endless fun removing the last word from the signs and swapping them with the last word from other signs. I wonder if they would actually notice?

PCman999
Reply to  Mac
September 26, 2022 3:09 pm

I would like to put a sign on my lawn that says:

“Climate Change!
Temperatures are going to drop by 50°C in just 5 months!
We’re Doomed!”

Also another sign:

“Climate Change!
Temperatures are going to skyrocket by 50°C in just 5 months!
We’re Doomed!”

And then swap them out every summer and winter ❄️

Last edited 2 months ago by PCman999
Bryan A
Reply to  Mac
September 26, 2022 3:41 pm

Every night plant another sign right next to it saying…
And Socialism Sucks

Last edited 2 months ago by Bryan A
MarkW
Reply to  jeffery P
September 26, 2022 8:20 am

Socialism reduces the income of the masses. On the other hand it vastly increases the wealth of those who run the asylum.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  MarkW
September 26, 2022 9:08 am

Why is it that so many people want to emigrate to the US, legally or otherwise, despite being the epitome of capitalism? Where are the lines of illegal immigrants waiting to sneak into Russia, China, Cuba, Venezuela, or North Korea?

Churchill famously said that Democracy was a terrible form of government, but it was the best we have found so far. Capitalism shares that with Democracy.

Steve Case
Reply to  jeffery P
September 26, 2022 9:15 am

The Great Reset is the goal and you just have to laugh or cry
_________________________________________________

Or the “Green Leap Forward” I like that one.
_________________________________________________

The Progs don’t know they are Fascists yet Fascism is the best description for the economic and political policies they advocate. Again, you have to laugh or you’ll cry.
_________________________________________________

Thanks for clearly pointing that out, it’s finally sinking for me as to where we are going or maybe have already arrived.

As soon as I finish this post, I’m calling my broker to tell him that if there’s a Class-Action lawsuit about ESG and failure of the big Asset Managers to comply with their fiduciary responsibilities, that I will be joining.

September 26, 2022 7:08 am

“…with reasonable reforms, the energy transition is fully within reach.”

No it’s not. (If you think so, then prove it.)

The “Alarmists” can now openly declare their real motives (echoing the founders of the movement starting with Maurice Strong and the Club of Rome) and the useful idiots try to deny that reality with absolutely no evidence.

Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s chief of staff Saikat Chakrabarti admitted recently that the true motivation behind introducing the Green New Deal is to overhaul the “entire economy.

Last edited 2 months ago by George Daddis
jeffery P
Reply to  George Daddis
September 26, 2022 7:40 am

They (the Progs) have total control of the major media, education system and the bureaucracy. It’s no surprise people mistakenly believe a transition to alternative energy is just around the corner.

The common belief is the only issue is political resistance. They don’t understand the fundamental problems that stem from the laws of chemistry and physics and basic math and economics.

Reply to  George Daddis
September 26, 2022 8:50 am

They can “prove it” when they can manufacture, install, and maintain windmills and solar panels using only wind and solar power.

PCman999
Reply to  Hoyt Clagwell
September 26, 2022 3:17 pm

And the batteries too! And all the related mining involved – would love to see an electric Catapillar mining truck the size of a big house try to do any meaningful work.

Otoh: about the only good business case for an electric truck: truck goes up a mountain empty to pick up a heavy load (think logging truck) and then is recharging it’s battery on the way down with regenerative braking.

CD in Wisconsin
September 26, 2022 7:23 am

The large white banner in the middle of the photo from the Party for Socialism and Liberation.

https://pslweb.org/

“Climate change is the symptom. Capitalism is the disease.”

Or as their website says:

For the planet to live, capitalism must end.”

***************

These people are disconnected from the real world.

This isn’t about the climate, is it?

Richard Page
Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
September 26, 2022 12:55 pm

No, it was never about the climate. The marxists of the 70’s who marched for various reasons raised the next generations to be the same but without any direction. This generation are flailing about, protesting anything and everything because it’s what they think the previous protest generations wanted, without realising that everything they have, their whole society, is built on these things they want to destroy. And they have nothing to replace it all with – they have no skills to build or create a new society – they are spoilt children who, if successful, will be wandering about in a destroyed wasteland of their own making, begging for help.

Ed Zuiderwijk
September 26, 2022 7:36 am

‘Even Big Oil is starting to realise there is no future in fossil fuels’.

Haha, that made my day. How much more deluded can you get?

Frank from NoVA
September 26, 2022 7:42 am

Well, I guess it’s necessary that at least one rational person (Eric Worrall) still reads ‘The Atlantic’, if only to keep tabs on what the crazies are up to, but Jesus, it’s still a mental slog trying to understand how they can possibly believe what they say they believe.

jeffery P
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
September 26, 2022 7:45 am

It’s a mixed bag. There are occasionally some very sensible articles in the Atlantic. Followed by half a dozen articles on how Trump is actually a Russian stooge.

Frank from NoVA
Reply to  jeffery P
September 26, 2022 7:56 am

And I ‘occasionally’ have to go through the contents of our trash bin to find something a family member believes was inadvertently thrown out. Sometimes the desired object is found in this manner, but way more often than not, it turns up elsewhere.

Duane
Reply to  jeffery P
September 26, 2022 8:06 am

Well, since Trump IS and has been a Russian stooge and whore, totally bought and paid for, you’re giving Atlantic 7 out of 7 being right.

MarkW
Reply to  Duane
September 26, 2022 8:23 am

Reality has never been your thing, has it.

even your fellow progressives have given up on the Russian interference scam. But you just can’t let go of a good hate.

jeffery P
Reply to  Duane
September 26, 2022 8:47 am

Stoopid is as stoopid believes, Duane. Six years of investigations and you got nothing. Nothing. Illegal surveillance couldn’t find anything. A bunch of crooked lawyers supervised by a disgraced former FBI director couldn’t find anything.

If Trump is a stooge, then he is smarter than all of you clowns put together. That last statement is actually true, regardless.

Last edited 2 months ago by jeffery P
Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Duane
September 26, 2022 9:13 am

You provide a good example of the tactics frequently used by the Left. You make a claim for which you offer no evidence, as though your utterance is sufficient for people to believe it. Where is the evidence of the exchange of money? If you have none, then you are lying.

MarkW
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
September 26, 2022 9:39 am

The people who tell Duane what to think have declared it to be so, therefore it is.

David Kamakaris
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
September 26, 2022 10:34 am

To add to your point, Clyde, useful idiots like Duane get most incensed over that which they are most guilty. There is evidence of money exchange when the DNC paid Christopher Steele to concoct the phony Russia collusion hoax. And Duane, Hillary I mean the Hildabeast, FJB as well as the rest of the hypocritical bums CAN’T STAND IT!

Richard Page
Reply to  David Kamakaris
September 26, 2022 1:05 pm

You know who Chris Steele handled back in the day? And came to work for him when he left to set up his own private firm near Salisbury? And, as a Russian, ran Chris Steele’s Russian section? And may or may not (according to rumour) have been willing to name names in connection with the Trump Dossier, in return for being allowed to attend his daughters wedding in Russia? Now I wonder what really happened with Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia, because the facts as released contradict themselves in a couple of key areas.

Derg
Reply to  Duane
September 26, 2022 10:49 am

Back on your meds dude. You are getting into Simon category now.

Reply to  Duane
September 26, 2022 1:54 pm

Duane, deriving joy from hating people isn’t good just because you’re convinced you hate the right people. Hating people for the fun of it is no way to go through life. Hate will only corrode your own mental well being.

PCman999
Reply to  Duane
September 26, 2022 3:23 pm

The voices in your head need to get out more.

Putin would have behaved himself with Trump in power, but with his friend “The Big Guy” in power Putin knows he can whatever he wants and make a mint on top of the high energy prices that Putin’s stooges have created.

Burgher King
Reply to  Duane
September 26, 2022 6:53 pm

Duane: ‘Well, since Trump IS and has been a Russian stooge and whore, totally bought and paid for, you’re giving Atlantic 7 out of 7 being right.’

Hillary Clinton and others have alleged that Donald Trump stole the 2016 election with the help of Russian hackers.

We now know that all electronic voting machines are wide open to the internet and are easily hacked.

It’s now theoretically conceivable that expert Russian hackers did break into those machines in 2016 and did steal the election for Trump.

Here’s a question for Duane. If the Russians were successful in 2016, why weren’t they equally successful in 2020?

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
September 26, 2022 9:43 am

It’s a “mental slog” just to read some of the articles. Apparently, for some folks, literacy is racist.

MarkW
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
September 26, 2022 3:45 pm

Putin’s previous invasions occurred when Obama was president.

Olen
September 26, 2022 7:48 am

The goal is to end the USA, the only country in the way of global communism. It can be seen in the condemnation of the country’s history and the goal of destroying all monuments, eliminating private ownership and especially the family farm the very symbol of freedom. Much supported by elected officials.

Walter Sobchak
September 26, 2022 7:48 am

The real goal is to impoverish, humiliate, and demoralize the lower orders and the lesser breeds. Actual influence on the non-social world is a mere byproduct.

CD in Wisconsin
September 26, 2022 7:53 am

“Jamie Henn, an environmental activist and the director of Fossil Free Media, recently told Rolling Stone, “Look, I want to get carbon out of the atmosphere, but this is such an opportunity to remake our society.”

************

Getting carbon out of the atmosphere. Yup, that’s the ticket. I hope Jamie is referring to ALL the CO2 in the atmosphere, because that will definitely remake society, and it will do it in a way which Henn doesn’t realize.

Old Man Winter
September 26, 2022 7:57 am

“Green group influencing Biden admin has deep ties to Chinese government”

“Not us versus them: Biden softens China competition ally pitch”

Hmmmmm!

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/green-group-influencing-biden-admin-deep-ties-chinese-government
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/restoring-america/courage-strength-optimism/biden-china-competition-allies-choice

XiBid0sa.jpg
Duane
September 26, 2022 8:07 am

The far left has always used global warming as a convenient excuse for imposing their radical vision on the world. What else is new?

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Duane
September 26, 2022 9:16 am

“Always?” That is a long time. Your tendency for hyperbole reduces your credibility.

Richard Page
Reply to  Duane
September 26, 2022 1:08 pm

Oh if you had only said ‘environmentalism’ instead of ‘global warming’ you might have actually had something – another swing and a miss, Duane.

MarkW
September 26, 2022 8:13 am

Ask the average socialism, what the benefits of socialism are, and they will tell you about all the free stuff they expect to receive once capitalism is abolished.

Richard Page
Reply to  MarkW
September 26, 2022 4:07 pm

All socialism is below average, it’s just built that way.

Menno Van Leeuwen
September 26, 2022 8:26 am

The irony is, the effort to reach ‘net zero’ in itself will require an insanely higher amount of energy produced by fossil fuel. The irony of that in itself is that will have very little effect on climate change, if none at all.

Peta of Newark
September 26, 2022 8:29 am

Is there a God, I was raving about cheese not long ago..
Wot you say, wtf has cheese got do wi…..
(You do need an open and agile mind for this one)

Start with:
Quote:KC invited cheesemakers and cheesemongers to his country pile along with civil servants from the Ministry of Agriculture and government ministers.
Mr Hodgson remembers the 1999 meeting well.
“Do we think it is important to keep these cheeses and traditions going?” KC asked.
Everyone agreed it was.
“So, what are you going to do about it?” was his next question for the room.
The meeting ended with the civil servants agreeing to work with the cheesemakers to draw up a code of practice to ensure good hygiene in small dairies.
It was, says Mr Hodgson, an “incredibly important moment” in the history of British cheese.
“He wasn’t seeking attention for his support, he just brought everyone together and found a path through it all,” he remembers.
His intervention worked, says Tim Rowcliffe, a former chairman of the Specialist Cheesemakers Association.
“From that day on, we had a dialogue with authority rather than going to war,” he says.

You do know who ‘KC‘ is don’t you, although he was ‘just’ PC at the time
Maybe not just a pretty face?
here

edit I just found this…
It’s now me saying !!!wot!!!!

Here is a Socialist lamenting the closure of a gas guzzling carbon emitting airport
How do these people sleep at night. what does actually go on inside their heads?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-63033676

Last edited 2 months ago by Peta of Newark
jeffery P
Reply to  Peta of Newark
September 26, 2022 8:54 am

Time to cut the Prozak in half.

Gregg Eshelman
Reply to  Peta of Newark
September 26, 2022 10:21 am

“The King is also expected to use a state visit to France next month – the first of his reign – to highlight a scheme to plant millions of trees in Africa.”

So why not go to Africa to promote planting trees in Africa? Jimmy Donaldson’s Team Trees is already on that project. https://teamtrees.org/

Richard Page
Reply to  Peta of Newark
September 26, 2022 1:12 pm

‘Blessed are the cheesemakers….’ indeed.

Old Man Winter
September 26, 2022 8:57 am

“While it is unusually rational for an Atlantic climate article, the author
still misses or glosses over some important points”

Unfortunately, this is about as good as it will ever get from someone
not labelled denier/deplorable. Rebecca Hendersen, a Harvard Prof, wrote
this book- “Reimagining Capitalism in a World on Fire”. From the title,
you can see she already missed the mark. Under the reasons she gave for
writing the book, she claimed “fossil fuels are killing hundreds of
thousands of people, while simultaneously destabilizing the earth’s climate,
rising sea levels and driving mass extinction”. What a crock!

She also claimed that the belief the next generation won’t be better
off than this generation is fueling “violent waves of anti-minority &
anti-immigrant sentiment that threaten to destabilize governments across
the world. A new generation of authoritarian populists is taking advantage
of a toxic mix of rage and alienation to consolidate power. Her solution to
this non-problem included “governments & businesses”, both of whom are
actually pushing the destructive green agenda already via the Great Reset/
Nut Zero scam. (Polly, want a cracker?)

It’s obvious the “informed liberals” believe the BeeEss the MSM is telling
them & are TOTALLY CLUELESS as to what the facts really are. Boy, will
those useful idiots be surprised when they figure it out & it’s waaaaaaay
too late!

libclue-.jpg
Last edited 2 months ago by Old Man Winter
Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Old Man Winter
September 26, 2022 5:16 pm

Their children will inherit the problem.

Richard Page
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
September 27, 2022 8:24 am

I am looking forward to the ‘teen rebellious’ years with anticipation and some big cartons of popcorn.

R Taylor
September 26, 2022 9:06 am

Half marks? For leading with “the energy transition is fully within reach”? Nope, sounds like full deceit to me, and zero marks. I’m surprised you went for the false premise.

Peta of Newark
September 26, 2022 9:10 am

Do we thank Obama at this point, or not?

QuoteCost of charging an electric car surges by 42% – with prices nearing the same as petrol. An electric car driver exclusively using rapid or ultra-rapid public chargers pays around 18p per mile for electricity, compared with roughly 19p per mile for petrol and 21p per mile for diesel, according to new figures

SKY News

Without tax and duty on the diesel motor fuel (55pence per litre plus 20% sales tax), the 21pence figure would be 13pence
Without tax on the electricity, it would be 17pence

My little VW 2litre diesel gets me 12.5 pence per mile (inc tax)
I ‘tuck in’ with the big trucks – the one in front gives me a tow and if there’s one behind, I get a push.
If you can get into a convoy of 2 trucks in front and one behind, you get an almost free ride.
It’s a much less stressful drive as well

Michael Velik
September 26, 2022 9:11 am

“Look, I want to get carbon out of the atmosphere, but this is such an opportunity to remake our society.”

In one sentence, the fellow gives two examples of his sheer ignorance. Were he to simply study some basic biology and ecology he’d realize his first goal is suicidal. Nothing advanced, simple junior high school level stuff (Jr High in 70’s). As to his second proposal, it would take some well informed study of history and basic understanding of human nature and human drives to realize the futility or foolishness of that endeavor. Again that could be accomplished with a decent High School history course and maybe an introductory AP course in psychology or anthropology.

Pity we are stuck with fools such as these having any effect on political decisions.

Richard Page
Reply to  Michael Velik
September 26, 2022 1:15 pm

I suppose we could throw a couple of lumps of coal at them, to help them with the idea of getting carbon out of the air, but is does seem like a lot of hassle.

jeffery P
Reply to  Michael Velik
September 26, 2022 2:46 pm

It’s a central tenant of progressivism to believe mankind can be perfected by perfecting society. That’s why they don’t prosecute criminals. Society is to blame for crimes. In fact, criminals are really victims, or so they want us to believe.

Retired_Engineer_Jim
September 26, 2022 9:31 am

“The good news is that, with reasonable reforms, the energy transition is fully within reach. Private investment in clean-energy technology is skyrocketing, and even Big Oil is starting to realize there is no future in fossil fuels.”

Really within reach???

2hotel9
September 26, 2022 9:39 am

Abolishing capitalism. Next stupid question.

n.n
September 26, 2022 9:58 am

Pro-Green and anti-green.

Pro-Single/Central/Monopolistic solutions and anti-capitalism.

Martina Vaslovik
September 26, 2022 10:01 am

‘Do you guys think of it as a climate thing? Because we really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing.’ So said Saikat Chakrabarti, former chief of staff for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and generally acknowledged author of the Green New Deal.

Robert of Ottawa
September 26, 2022 10:17 am

They’re not called Watermelons for nothing. In the 1980s, the left, lost in the wilderness after the collapse of the USSR, found solace in the Brundtland Report and took over the Environmental Movement, as saving the planet gave them the excuse for dictatorial powers over all society, which, as Communists, they want.

jeffery P
Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
September 26, 2022 2:50 pm

I think you have your dates wrong, or perhaps it was a typo.. The USSR collapsed in the 1990’s.

Before the collapse, the USSR funded many environmental groups, especially the anti-nuclear enviros.

Richard Page
Reply to  jeffery P
September 27, 2022 8:28 am

I think he may be confusing the fall of USSR with the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989. That event scrapes into the eighties by just about 2 months.

Robert of Ottawa
Reply to  jeffery P
September 27, 2022 11:24 am

Well, no, the demoralization of the left started in the 1980’s. Before the wall fell or Gorbachev. Don’t you remember?

Last edited 2 months ago by Robert of Ottawaa
Richard Page
Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
September 27, 2022 12:39 pm

I do but Roberts assertion that it only happened after the fall of the USSR is not correct. The fall of communism started before the wall fell or Gorbachev and coincided with the leftist slump but that isn’t what Robert said.

markl
September 26, 2022 10:37 am

Bingo! We’re starting to get to the root of the AGW scam. All the propaganda in the world won’t be able to put lipstick on AGW when the truth comes out.

ResourceGuy
September 26, 2022 11:06 am

Answer: maintaining the subscriber base and keeping up with Hollywood on the edgy mandate/quota

ResourceGuy
September 26, 2022 11:11 am

The immediate goal is the midterm elections.

Biden new environmental justice office to oversee $3 billion in grants (cnbc.com)

We’ve gone from campaign street money to minorities to this.

Richard Page
Reply to  ResourceGuy
September 26, 2022 1:20 pm

It is the way of the Democrat to bribe the electorate, in a proud tradition going back to LBJ bribing the Southern Black voters shortly after they won the right to vote.

Leslie MacMillan
September 26, 2022 12:23 pm

“. . . even Big Oil is *starting to realize* there is no future in fossil fuels.” says the Atlantic article.
But the article referred to in the hypertext, indicated here between asterisks, doesn’t say that AT ALL.

Ed Reid
September 26, 2022 1:52 pm

“The good news is that, with reasonable reforms, the energy transition is fully within reach.”

Not so fast. Without economical long-duration storage or “Dispatchable Emission-Free Resources” (NYS, undefined), the energy transition is out of reach.

AGW is Not Science
Reply to  Ed Reid
September 28, 2022 3:50 am

The “energy transition” WILL ALWAYS BE OUT OF REACH, since wind and solar are 100% dependent on fossil fuels for their existence, and since they don’t produce enough energy in their less-than-promised life spans to produce their replacements, much less produce the energy we need. Even if they could find the magic storage device needed to store what is produced when not needed.

Last edited 2 months ago by AGW is Not Science
September 26, 2022 3:42 pm

‘Progressives’ have noticed that getting the ‘Green Transition’ to actually work, without alienating the whole population, is very difficult and would invilve great effort. As a result, they prefer to fight financially fragile corporations and intimidate them into abject surrender..

Bob
September 26, 2022 5:13 pm

I don’t want to seem too harsh but this guy is a naive crackpot.

Steve Oregon
September 26, 2022 5:22 pm

When “Climate Justice” became the chant of choice the mission became crystal clear.
Climate Crusaders are Social Warriors. AKA Commies.

observa
Reply to  Steve Oregon
September 26, 2022 5:50 pm

Social justice and equity for well off Tesla owners does have its bothersome trials-
The EV ‘social equity’ dilemma that may put apartment residents off electric cars (msn.com)

observa
Reply to  Steve Oregon
September 26, 2022 6:03 pm

Meanwhile will some old fashioned user pays dampen the weather changing zeal?
Cost of charging an electric car surges by 42% – almost the same as petrol prices (msn.com)

observa
Reply to  Steve Oregon
September 26, 2022 11:39 pm

While the bright sparks at Stanford work out that electron equity with weather worrying depends very much on the time of day-
Why Exactly is Charging Your EV Overnight Bad? (msn.com)

DonM
September 26, 2022 5:55 pm

I like the big sign that says ‘Capitalism is the Disease … Socialism is the cure’

It’s turning into a standard thing for this kind of people.

1) A ‘Harsh cold virus is the Disease … World lock down and Heart Disease injections are the Cure’

2) ‘Confusion in an 8 year old is the Disease … Creating a track for mutilation is the Cure’

3) ‘I have a hang-nail … Cut of your finger’

4) ‘Racism is the Disease … Burning, vandalism, theft, burning is the Cure’

5)

Last edited 2 months ago by DonM
george1st:)
September 26, 2022 6:10 pm

The catastrophe is already happening , if only the voting serfs could see it .
Killing our industrialism and way of life rather than just adapting to or mitigating against the extremes of weather is astounding how the public and our leaders have caved in to raving loonies .

observa
Reply to  george1st:)
September 27, 2022 8:04 am

What more do the blocks the stones the worse than senseless things really need?
‘Open invitation’ for activists to ‘hit the streets’ after protester charges dropped (msn.com)

AGW is Not Science
Reply to  george1st:)
September 28, 2022 4:02 am

And since the weather is actually NOT ‘getting more extreme,” there isn’t much to “adapt” TO.

b.nice
September 26, 2022 6:44 pm

“there is no future in fossil fuels.”

WRONG, fool.

There is no future WITHOUT fossil fuels. !

AGW is Not Science
Reply to  b.nice
September 28, 2022 4:04 am

Well, there actually IS a “future” without fossil fuels – it’s called THE STONE AGE.

What’s old is new again.

huls
September 27, 2022 2:44 am

Their idea of abolishing capitalism is not doing away with large corporations or big financial institions.

It is doing away with choice for the common man.

Everything, including all kinds of very personal things will be decide by the all encompassing fusion of state and corporation. Money will have no true utility anymore other than to keep score of distribution of certain items.

Yep the schoolbook example of Fascism, that’s what these loonies are after and they must be stopped at all cost.

Rusty
September 27, 2022 3:55 am

Socialism is the perfect cure for reducing CO2 emissions – it kills millions of people who then no longer need food, clothing, housing, water, or material goods.

ResourceGuy
September 27, 2022 6:53 am

Remember to tap the brakers when they start to threaten the media oligarch owners themselves and the U.S. Capitol.

Oddgeir
September 27, 2022 12:21 pm

“Taking climate change seriously as a global emergency requires an all-hands-on-deck attitude and a recognition that technological solutions (yes, often built and deployed by private firms) can deliver real progress on decarbonization before the proletariat has seized the means of production. A massive infusion of private investment, made not for charity but in the anticipation of future profits, is precisely what’s needed to accelerate the clean-energy transition—which, like all revolutions, will yield unpredictable results.”

It also requires billions of slaves- and all the capital on the planet in perpetuity, hence climate change equals capitalism. Meaning if you fight the good fight (/sarc) for implementing policies and technology to deal with the climate, you are actually pro-capitalist on a crime against humanity level.

Silly question…

Oddgeir

Jeff Alberts
September 27, 2022 7:32 pm

Since anyone with half a brain knows that stopping climate change isn’t possible or desirable, the latter must be the goal.

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